Time to move on? (New job? major rant!)

[TonyB]

Am I being unreasonable? At my work I am frequently told that I am a valuable member of the team and that I do a good job, which is cool. However, actions speak louder than words. Frequently my managers (top heavy company) do things that, to me at least, say that they don’t have faith in me.

Here is a classic example, which is happening right now. I have designed a heating system for one of our customers. It is a kitset only contract, the customer has to find a welder to put it together. He is aware of this- I checked when this was questioned! It is important to remember that I am the only person who is fully conversant with this project- I designed it, did the checklist, priced it, did the contract, liased with the customer when he accepted the contract, did the drawings, ordered all the parts and sent some parts out for outwork, (we are a small company, and I have a fairly broad job description) Every thing is under control. Or so I thought.

Last week I found out that my managing director (MD) had decided that we were doing the installation. I found this out from our storeman. I know that the customer was not consulted about this, and he is slightly puzzled. We don’t have welding staff capable of doing this work reliably- they will tell you that themselves, this is why we didn’t include it. When I questioned my MD he said, “I don’t like open ended contracts” and went on to insinuate that the contract I had done was poorly worded. He’s only ever glanced at it. It’s not open ended, far from it, everyone knows exactly where they stand, or at least they did.

Then late last week I found out my MD was out in the truck, picking up the boiler (which was not part of the contract, the customer decided to buy his own boiler) and was taking it out to the site- 55km away. Again he hadn’t talked to me about it- I found out from the storeman at smoko and promptly blew my top. With good reason, for a start the rest of the kit, which could have fitted on the same truck, wasn’t ready to go- not that he’d even thought to take it or ask, so money was being wasted. Secondly there was a very good reason why the boiler couldn’t be put in place, if he had put it in place, we would have had to move it again to be able to do the job. The GM here knew this and tried to stop him, his attitude was “I’ve done this before, I know what I’m doing” so he went anyway. MD hadn’t taken his cell phone, so I had to ring the very bemused client, and his wife had to pounce on him as he drove past their house and tell him to ring me. God knows what the client was thinking.

Last night as I was leaving he said that he wanted to see the drawings for the system, as he “will probably make major changes”. It’s designed. I know it will work perfectly. 95% of the parts are ordered and sitting in our store, the rest are being made elsewhere. It is too late to change and not waste money. I said, “if you change it I’m going to spew” and gave the reasons above. He backed down a bit, but toady he wanted to look at the drawings to "make sure it will work". Arrogant little fuck, I know more about this sort of thing than he ever will.

Today I found out that he had gone out to the site again to do some work on a separate system at the same job, again without asking me for a drawing. The saga will doubtless continue tomorrow.

I did another heating system in Oz. The MD’s son was doing the grunt work for the welder (despite having alienated several customers by stealing from them, etc to support his drug habit- over and over again I hear that he will never work for us again, but they keep hiring him. He has stolen $1000’s from this company- the most blatant being when he sold the bloody lounge sweet in reception to some dodgy prick while we were all here, supposedly they were doing a swap for a nicer one, he called his mother who was in hospital, she said “no way”, he hung up the phone and said “yep it’s sweet”, we never saw the other lounge sweet, now we have two cheap metal chairs…supplied by our receptionist) Sorry- rant within a rant. He rang up to winge at daddy that it was too hard to push some rubber hose onto some hose tails I had gotten made. He accosted me in the store, in a good loud voice so that the three guys working in there could hear, saying the hose tails were too big, the rubber hose was too thick, you fucked up etc etc. I said- “get some rubber grease” and proceeded to show him how I could push the two together by hand without the grease. I was still ‘at fault’. He made sure everyone found out by discussing it again at smoko.

It goes on. I did a big heating system in Oamaru, and at the same time I arranged the installation of an expensive new piece of technology that could make both us and our customers a great deal of money. MD comes back from Oz and interferes- not with the heating system, that works perfectly, no this time he meddled with the new technology, deciding that we could ‘save some money’ by sourcing a critical component locally. Not only did this cost more, it caused at least four catastrophic failures, all of which I had to fix at the companies expense, requiring many 12 hour plus days with no extra pay, my wife at home with two small kids by herself. Word got around, our customers do not trust the new technology as ‘it fails all the time’. Genius!

The crux of it is that by:
1. altering my designs or ignoring them, then blaming me for all of the inevitable faults…
2. immediately assuming that I am at fault when problems arise…
3. taking over and then not even talking to me about projects that I solely have handled since their inception…
4. overriding my carefully considered decisions without consulting me…

I feel like my input into this company is not valued or respected. I am frequently put under significant pressure to do the above work, and when it is altered, ignored etc, I feel like I may as well not have bothered. I heard that for most people, feeling valued in their job is more important than how much they are paid. I can quite believe it. We are going through a very slow period at the moment. People have been made redundant- I am assured that I am too valuable to loose, but at the moment I can’t see many good reasons for staying in a potentially unstable company where my input doesn’t really seem to be valued. All I want is to be able to do the job I am paid to do. Am I being unreasonable????

[Lou Girardin]

There's supposed to be plenty of jobs around for skilled people, go where you'll be appreciated. Life's too short to work for morons.

[Riff Raff]

I think you need to sit down and tell them everything you just told us, and let them know how it makes you feel. Ask him why he feels he needs to keep changing your work - has he had someone work for him before who kept stuffing up and now he can't help keeping an eye on things - sometimes when we've been bitten we find it difficult to trust again. Find out his perspective and try to keep it amicable and see whether you can both come up with a solution. If the situation doesn't change then maybe you need to look at other employment options.

[bear]

Mate, definately sounds like to do better somewhere else.
As you say action speaks louder than words, and although you are verbally being told you're valuable, the MD's actions constantly undermine your intelligence and position within the organisation.
MD sounds like a bit of a cowboy to me!

My advice would be to have a look around and see what else is on offer. Surely there's no harm in that, and you could come across something that fulfils both your monetary and status needs.

[gamgee]

sounds like a good resignation letter to me...

[TonyB]

I think you need to sit down and tell them everything you just told us, and let them know how it makes you feel. Ask him why he feels he needs to keep changing your work
Thanks Riff Raff. Thats the plan. Hopefully tomorrow... if he's not out fucking up one of my projects...
It may be difficult to keep it amicable, as this has been going on for ages. Can't see him changing as he is a total control freak. He has thrown the whole company into dissaray in the three weeks he has been back from Aus. There are so many other issues I haven't mentioned, but the plan is to keep it simple, only mention the issues above, otherwise it will turn real nasty...

[Drunken Monkey]

Don't take this the wrong way Riff Raff, but as clear thought and logical your suggestion may be, sadly I don't think TonyB will really get anywhere with it in the long term. His complaint lies directly with the MD - who's likely to be the biggest stake holder of the company (correct me if I'm wrong) I've worked in some shit holes for assholes and shared many stories with other that have worked in shit holes for assholes, and one thing is consistent = the only way out of it is to get out.
Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but TonyB I think you're not likely to get any real changes out of management (read: the MD). In fact, you'll possibly even find, even if management are initially agreeable with you, your general working environment will turn more hostile. A wise worker once likened it to a proverb about shaking one's hands in a bucket of water - it will very quickly settle down to what it was like before when those hands are taken out.

[SPman]

Find another job and tell the prick where to shove it and why! Loudly! In front of EVERYONE! :niceone:

No point in working for arseholes!

[Kickaha]

Is the MD also the company owner? or is there someone over and above him you can go to and raise these concerns?

If there is show them what a prat he is and tell them you want his job

[Storm]

Gotta be happy with your work mate. I made the choice to be a sparky as I wasnt at all enjoying the previous job and have never looked back. Its not worth working under arseholes, and it sound like you have more than enough skills to take yourself and find work somewhere you will be appreciated.
Without having met this guy, (the MD) , I cant see you getting anywhere with him. If he isnt listenin, dont bother wasting the breath on him
Just my 2c

[manuboy]

Thanks Riff Raff. Thats the plan. Hopefully tomorrow... if he's not out fucking up one of my projects...
It may be difficult to keep it amicable, as this has been going on for ages. Can't see him changing as he is a total control freak. He has thrown the whole company into dissaray in the three weeks he has been back from Aus. There are so many other issues I haven't mentioned, but the plan is to keep it simple, only mention the issues above, otherwise it will turn real nasty...

Hate to say it, but i wouldn't bother.

Like 95% of small NZ companies, your outfit sounds like it lacks them in the right places with the right people skills. Your MD probably isn't out to screw you, it just comes naturally to him. A small chat is not gonna improve your situation.

Attempting to find a company that'll fit you might.

Start lookin while ya still taking their wage, what have you got to lose?

Amazing how starting to look for a new job can brighten your outlook on life just by making you realise you aren't trapped and there are other options. It's just another challenge...

[Ghost Lemur]

I agree with the concensus. If there is someone above the MD raise the concerns with them. I take it there isn't as I except judging by all the examples that you've given and time frame that you would have already done it if there was a more senior stakeholder.

That leaves leaving. By the sounds of it the businesses customers either are or will be, so jump the sinking ship. Don't know what business this is but either get yourself headhunted by the company's competition or if you've got the means (by the sounds of it you've certainly got the actual product knowledge) become the competition yourself. If what you discribe is accurate, you'll have more than a few customers coming your way immediately. Also bring yourself back up to speed with your exact contract details. Sometimes they contain clauses about starting a competitive business or working for the competition.

Could be worth talking to a lawyer too if you expect things to get nastier.

Whatever you do get out quick. Your family will appreciate a husband/father who comes home in a good mood. You'll feel better too. We spend too much of our lives at work to put up with bullshit.

[TonyB]

I agree with the concensus. If there is someone above the MD raise the concerns with them. ... Also bring yourself back up to speed with your exact contract details. Sometimes they contain clauses about starting a competitive business or working for the competition.

Could be worth talking to a lawyer too if you expect things to get nastier.

Whatever you do get out quick. Your family will appreciate a husband/father who comes home in a good mood. You'll feel better too. We spend too much of our lives at work to put up with bullshit.
For the record, the MD is the owner/ founder of the company.
As for the contract, I don't have one. Been there for 5 years plus. About two years ago they insisted that I have one. I actually paid to have an employment lawyer alter it and add some clauses. It scared them, and despite my prompting them several times, I still don't have one. The problem with family companies is that the MD's don't have to be good, they just need the right last name...

Wife and kids will definitely appreciate it if I can sort this out. As you can imagine, I'm not always that cheerful.

Thanks to all for the advice. KB is a great place!

[justsomeguy]

There's supposed to be plenty of jobs around for skilled people, go where you'll be appreciated. Life's too short to work for morons.

I could give you a pages of advice, but those pages wouldn't contain any more than what Lou has just said.

Very well said Lou :niceone:

[Biff]

There's supposed to be plenty of jobs around for skilled people, go where you'll be appreciated. Life's too short to work for morons.

Ditto - sound advice.

[speedpro]

Put everything in writing and present them with it. As you say it could get heated otherwise. If you hang round a bit get yourself a notebook and keep a daily diary of events - all of them, good or bad.

I was having a similar bad experiance a few years ago then one Monday after a week working in Sydney it was all good and has been ever since. Honest it was a chalk and cheese thing. Turned out the boss had done a "Forum" course. I'm not (too) screwed up but I ended up doing one as well, mainly due to the positive change in the boss, and found it quite mind clearing.

[scumdog]

Thanks Riff Raff. Thats the plan. Hopefully tomorrow... if he's not out fucking up one of my projects...
It may be difficult to keep it amicable, as this has been going on for ages. Can't see him changing as he is a total control freak. He has thrown the whole company into dissaray in the three weeks he has been back from Aus. There are so many other issues I haven't mentioned, but the plan is to keep it simple, only mention the issues above, otherwise it will turn real nasty...

Sounds like the MD has too much time on his hands - what IS his job description?
Ask him how he sees his 'input' is going to benefit the company, be explicit with examples and point how you see his 'input is REALLY affecting morale/productivity/costs etc - stick to known provable facts.

[750Y]

the clouds are parting ...yes... i'm seeing a big black line out the workshop door.

[James Deuce]

For the record, the MD is the owner/ founder of the company.
As for the contract, I don't have one. Been there for 5 years plus. About two years ago they insisted that I have one. I actually paid to have an employment lawyer alter it and add some clauses. It scared them, and despite my prompting them several times, I still don't have one. The problem with family companies is that the MD's don't have to be good, they just need the right last name...

Wife and kids will definitely appreciate it if I can sort this out. As you can imagine, I'm not always that cheerful.

Thanks to all for the advice. KB is a great place!

Right. Been exactly there, done exactly that. Leave. Don't discuss anything with anyone, you will just end feeling more worthless, because the MD sounds like the kind of person that will ultimately convince you that YOU are the mental case, not him.

If it is affecting your demeanour at home, then the problem is already worse than you think it is. Leave. Leave. Leave. Don't hesitate. Start looking for jobs today. You will wonder why you held on so long when you find another job, probably comparatively easily. Sounds like your project management skills are up spec, so don;t be afraid to try a different industry.

Leave. Write the letter now. Make sure it doesn't contain anything emotive, and isn't any longer than two sentences. Leave.

Leave.

[FROSTY]

I agree with the above posts. Also keep in mind YOUR reputation is beeing tarred with the same brush as theirs.
If you want to stay in this line of work then I'd suggest its time for a change.
different company -same line of work.
Maybee even a competitor thinking of moving into you area of specialisation.
BTW -new industrial law as at april this year-it isn't legal to not have a contract.

[ManDownUnder]

Yup all of the above. If you know you're good you don;t need to keep covering for your boss.

If he take stuff out to site and it has to be moved later to get the job done. That's ok. It's his company - he can do what he wants. But... the buck stops with him - not you.

I have a rule with my 5 year old... "You mess it up, you clean it up." . For some reason it came to mind while reading your (well deserved) rant.

I'd also keepo in mind that the best time to find a job is when you don't need one. No time pressures to mov on etc - meaning you won't be forced to take any that come along.

Only you know if it's time to go, but if you and the MD can't sit and talk this over I suspect it might be time to start looking. If it's so bad your family is being affected I'd suggest the price is already too high... it's one of those indicators...

Good luck chap - your situation is not a fun place to be!
MDU

[Sniper]

Sorry to hear that mate, I know just how frustrated you are

[TonyB]

Not entirely sure of this yet, but I think the only option is to keep quiet, try not to go ballistic the next time it happens, sort my CV out, and get another job. At the very least I'm going to mull it over for a few days. As I said back near the start (and most people have agreed with), the MD's personality is not likely to change. He can't help himself.
I have now found out that the workshop manager feels exactly the same as I do. In fact I think he is probably having more trouble than me.
Then the manager of a company we use to do construction for us in NZ and OZ told me that he will no longer be doing work for us in OZ. The MD is usually based in OZ and as a result things there are hopelessly disorganised, and he is sick of the MD's overwhelming arrogance.
On the face of it, it would appear that this company is falling apart at the seams. Time, I think, for this rat to desert the sinking ship.

Thanks yet again to everybody for your support and advice. It means a lot, and has genuinely helped me to clear my head. :2thumbsup :grouphug:
Some day I will repay you all, unless of course I can't find you or if I forget © Shrek 2

[geoffm]

I have been in a very similar situation, in my first job (a plastics factory in South Auckland). There for 4 years - the first 2 years were great, the last 2 were hell, and knowing what I know now, I could have done them for constructive dismissal... I never realised how stressed I was until I left. I should have done it sooner, but jobs were hard to find in the early 90s. When i was talking to someone there a few years later, it hadn't improved at all, and a couple of key staff had left for the opposition down the road, as they had had enough.
Now is the time to leave, especially if you are in the metalworking trades. You should have no problems getting a job at present. Drop your CV into the specialist headhunters, ask around and knock on doors. What qualifications, skills, etc have you got and where do you want to work?
The hardest part is getting away for a job interview (my pet peeve with headhunters - want an interview with everyone, even if the job doesn't exist).

Don't have a big scene / trash the place/ etc when you go. You want to leave on good terms, so you can get a decent reference, and to make sure no rumours follow you around the employment hunt. NZ is still a small place in a lot of ways.
Geoff

[ManDownUnder]

Not entirely sure of this yet, but I think the only option is to keep quiet, try not to go ballistic the next time it happens, sort my CV out, and get another job. At the very least I'm going to mull it over for a few days. As I said back near the start (and most people have agreed with), the MD's personality is not likely to change. He can't help himself.
I have now found out that the workshop manager feels exactly the same as I do. In fact I think he is probably having more trouble than me.
Then the manager of a company we use to do construction for us in NZ and OZ told me that he will no longer be doing work for us in OZ. The MD is usually based in OZ and as a result things there are hopelessly disorganised, and he is sick of the MD's overwhelming arrogance.
On the face of it, it would appear that this company is falling apart at the seams. Time, I think, for this rat to desert the sinking ship.

Thanks yet again to everybody for your support and advice. It means a lot, and has genuinely helped me to clear my head. :2thumbsup :grouphug:
Some day I will repay you all, unless of course I can't find you or if I forget © Shrek 2

Dude - at the risk of requestesting something that's too much to stomach, it would be worthwhile contacting the other shareholders and letting them know of staff feelings. It sounds like it would be inappropriate for you to lay out what the issues actually are - you're probably too close to accurately diagnose them and leave the emotions out of it... not to mention the fact it'll come down to you vs the MD... no prizes for guessing who wins that fight.

If you have good sources confirming 10% of the company is currently planning to leave due to a common problem, the shareholders will be interested... and you'll possibly come out the shining knight.

... what I should have said is that you can tell them you believe you know of a contributing issue, but leave it to them to assess what the problem is. There may be more than you know going on behind the scenes... a power struggle or something equally fruitless.

Hopefully they dig in and find out what you know about anyway...


However... you might not, and at that point leaving will be a very attractive option...

A big call... cojones the size of pumpkins needed... but at the same time a company (and therefore people's jobs) may be on the line...

all from me. PM me if you want on this or anything else ok?
MDU

[TonyB]

More hilarity! Today, the rep for one of our most important suppliers visited from Europe. MD, rep and I spent about half the day together. Much BS was spouted by the MD, particularly when the subject came up of a huge order he made me put in last year for a project that wasn't signed and then never happened- he couldn't pay, so his response was to ignore all of the reps correspondence, despite me pleading with him to just explain the situation.

Anyway, MD said, on three diferent occasions, infront of the rep that Tony is big headed. I laughed and joked about it, but my thought was "another nail in the coffin". The rep was puzzled to say the least. The history behind this is that I will design something, and MD will always and without fail want to change something, which I always resist as a great deal of thought has gone in. Sure, sometimes the changes are a good idea, but usually it seems to be ego related. He has apparently done this for years- to anybody that tries to design anything. Even his wife admits to it- we often do things in such a way as to make him think he's thought of it (seriously) just so we won't have to waste hours making unnecessary changes.

So people, what would you do? My take on it is that he is too gutless to bring it up face to face, so he wants to do it in a situatuion where I can't retaliate. That and he want's to belittle me infront of others.

[James Deuce]

You could do what I did and resign the day after a very similar meeting I once had.

Best thing I ever did.

[Frankie]

Similar thing at my work but not as bad... Found a new job with more money told them to get stuffed in a nice way... last day Wednesday and start new job Thursday :drinknsin

[onearmedbandit]

Tony, mate I feel for you. Start the search, find somewhere that values you (and pays well!), you'll have a better outlook about everything. An arsehole like that (and he's allowed to be, he owns the company) is not going to change and you'll end up doing your head in over it. It would appear thats already begun.

Informing your contacts in passing conversation that you're moving to a new company wouldn't hurt either. Not that you're trying to poach them, more just letting them no you will no longer be in contact for them, well for that company anyway.

Best of luck mate.

[gav]

Hey Tony, I just left my job after 7 years and started a new one, its tough to actually leave to be honest but I started applying about 6 months ago before I found the right one. Talk to some of the reps that come and see you if possible, just quietly put the word out that you could be interested in moving on, usually a quiet word in the right ear can turn up some pretty intersting leads. While its been suggested just leave now, you certainly need to line something up first, but I found that once I made my mind up that I was going, work actually didnt seem to bad, and when I left it was on good terms, so all good all round. If people are interested in you they'll make time to see you, no problem. All my interviews were after work, err one was actually before work at 6.30 in the morning, that was different!

[TonyB]

, but I found that once I made my mind up that I was going, work actually didnt seem to bad, and when I left it was on good terms, so all good all round. If people are interested in you they'll make time to see you, no problem. All my interviews were after work, err one was actually before work at 6.30 in the morning, that was different!
Yeah, I've noticed that already. MD's comments on Friday would have had me seething only a few days ago. Now they just help me to make up my mind. Good to know that I don't necessarliy have to find an excuse for going to job interviews.

[Wolf]

When I finally came to the conclusion that my job at a certain Tertiary institution was never going to get any better, and it was just going to keep going downhill thanks to the meddling of the Managers (Manglers), I just quit - no job to go to, no "safety net" - just handed in my resignation with faith that I would survive - nay, prosper - and that I would land on my feet. Was self-employed for a spell, found out that I didn't enjoy it very much (useful info) and then found another job in a different organisation but still in the Education Sector.

Sometimes the best you can do for yourself is to just leave. You're worthwhile, you're good at what you do, there's work out there - you don't have to put up with shit for the sake of your weekly/fortnightly/monthly pay.

I owed it to myself - for the sake of my sanity and my self-respect - to tell them (politely) to shove it up their arses - the fact that I was prepared to take an uncertain future, with no guarantees, over their guaranteed crap speaks volumes - "hey pal, the possiblity of starving in the gutter looks better than turning up here on Monday."

Sometimes we must do what is best for ourselves.

[TonyB]

Just an update for those that give a damn.

Without really trying I just landed a new job. 'Twas yet another case of getting an unadvertised job without needing a CV, references or any of the usual guff. Sometimes it really is a case of knowing the right people, oh and having a few grey hairs helped in this case too. Starting on 5K a year more than I get now, with a review in 6 months. Getting a new computer with a new screen (rather than an old 'puter with a crap screen like I have now). SOmething tells me this new office won't come with bonus vermen (mice in the office- rats in the ceiling), but you can't have EVERYTHING, can you?. Will only need to travel 20k's a day rather than the 40 I do now. Plus I'll be working with a good freind.

Looking forward to handing in my resignation :nya: :buggerd: - I'll do it on Monday.

Thanks to all those that offered their thoughts and advice.

[**R1**]

Nice one Tony, I changed jobs recently after spending 12 years at the same firm, and in all honesty it was one of the best things i have ever done, its changed my whole outlook on life....thats my sopy shit for the day...now dont fuck around and go tell ya boss to shuv his stinking job....

[WINJA]

Yeah, I've noticed that already. MD's comments on Friday would have had me seething only a few days ago. Now they just help me to make up my mind. Good to know that I don't necessarliy have to find an excuse for going to job interviews.
PLENTY OF WORK OUT THERE FOR US HEVAC TYPES, GOOD ON YOU , HOPE IT WASNT WITH AQUAHEAT

[SlashWylde]

Awesome, glad it all worked out well for you in the end. :niceone:

[dangerous]

Looking forward to handing in my resignation :nya: :buggerd: - I'll do it on Monday.
Ha.... me too told him to shove it yesterday, start fresh next week, on ya Tony

[justsomeguy]

:clap: :clap: :clap: TonyB -CONGRATS!!!

Now you get some rest.....

Managed to find work at a decent company recently after quite some time working for outright crooks so I can understand you stress.

Have a beer and go do something you always wanted to do but were too stressed to think about doing :niceone:

[mstriumph]

basically wot everyone else said :spudbooge

1. find another job

2. resign - smiling [is he ever going to BELIEVE he's a no-talent intefering whatsit with no people skills? no - so what's the point? anyway, he'll mebbe be on your resume for a while .......]

3. live happily ever after - elsewhere!

[James Deuce]

Excellent news Tony.

Look about 6 posts up mstriumph. Tony has a new job and hands his notice in on Monday. ;)

[DemonWolf]

Good stuff.. Glad ya finally taken the plung Tonyb.. I'm still currently doing the 'CV' + interview thing.. just had one today... will know in a couple days or so... here's hoping! haha....

Man I need a new job! =/

[riffer]

Great news Tony.

Hopefully you and Aaron finding new jobs means that the Universe is looking kindly on all us Kiwibikers and I'll get a new job soon too.

Been seven weeks today now. But sooooo many jobs around at the moment.

One of them will be the right one.

Good on you. You brought a smile to my day. :)

[mstriumph]

Excellent news Tony.

Look about 6 posts up mstriumph. Tony has a new job and hands his notice in on Monday. ;)

:argh: :dodge: sometimes a snowpea has more smarts than i do ------ THOUGHT i'd missed a page at the time ...... :brick:

[Macktheknife]

For the record, the MD is the owner/ founder of the company.
As for the contract, I don't have one. Been there for 5 years plus. About two years ago they insisted that I have one. I actually paid to have an employment lawyer alter it and add some clauses. It scared them, and despite my prompting them several times, I still don't have one. The problem with family companies is that the MD's don't have to be good, they just need the right last name...

Wife and kids will definitely appreciate it if I can sort this out. As you can imagine, I'm not always that cheerful.

Thanks to all for the advice. KB is a great place!

You have a good case for constructive dismissal, see a GOOD employment lawyer, pay him, (and then fuck them over as you leave laughing). It is entirely illegal to not have a contract, under NZ employment law it is a requirement. It is also arguable that you could make a case for destruction of the 'good faith' element required under NZ legislation. BUT over and above everything else, go get a better job man... you really dont need to put up with this shit! Do the other stuff just to make yourself feel better about putting up with it for so long. Go gettim! :ar15:

[Silage]

Good on ya Tony. Let us know how it works out and wot your new job is etc.

And Dangerous, what are you up to eh? Is everyone leaving. Was wondering how come you have been on line in the middle of the day - or was it the snow?

[dangerous]

And Dangerous, what are you up to eh? Is everyone leaving. Was wondering how come you have been on line in the middle of the day - or was it the snow?
Na last 2 weeks its been cos of the chicken pox.... dont bloody laugh, it fuking hurt.
But as of yesterday I quit.... boss has disapointed me big time, dont deserve that shit after 5 yrs of working my arse off so he can build $2m house and have over seas trips.
I start a new job later next week, theres only one um..................... fuk um

[madboy]

Well done Tony. Guess we've all been there, done that, and in the end the sun always shines. Although in no where near as horrid position as you described, I've been a little disappointed with my crowd for a time. Casually put my feelers out a few months ago, just in case something popped up. Being in a specialised field, they don't pop up that much. Then I get an e-mail from the manager at a particular outfit, am I interested? Yeah, why not... so we had a 2 hour interview (1.45 chatting and 15 min std HR type questions)... got me a $13k payrise outta it too...

Good things come to those who wait :) Hope the new one turns out well for ya!!

[Joni]

Good things come to those who wait :) Hmm, yes I know it was not directed at me at all... but I needed to hear that too today. :wacko:

[jrandom]

You have a good case for constructive dismissal...

tut tut, keep up at the back and read the thread already boyo.

anyways Tony wasn't saying they were threatening to let him go, just making his life hell, cant get in legal trouble for being a crap boss if you still pay people on time and dont fire them without due cause. unfortunately. constructive dismissal doesnt apply until they, you know, DISMISS ya. you cant take someone to court on that basis if you resign voluntarily!

but WELL DONE, TonyB. been there myself. you did the right thing, and youll be deliriously happy for a while now every time you think about it. great stuff. nice to see good things happening in peoples lives now and then. I cant take too much of it, though, so someone better screw up bigtime and let me mock them real soon now.

[jrandom]

Hmm, yes I know it was not directed at me at all... but I needed to hear that too today. :wacko:

bad day, Joni?

go for a ride.

on your bike, that is.

it makes everything better.

[erik]

Just saw this thread now. Bloody good to hear it all worked out!
Makes me wonder if I'll go through any of the same stuff after getting out of uni.

[k14]

Good stuff tony, $5k extra aye?? Now you'll have even more $$$ to spend on ya bucket, then ya might be able to beat me.

[Biff]

Hmm, yes I know it was not directed at me at all... but I needed to hear that too today. :wacko:

Don't worry mate - you'll see me again soon. :nya:

[Joni]

Don't worry mate - you'll see me again soon. :nya:
*shudder*

:spudwave:

[TonyB]

Thanks everyone!


Good stuff tony, $5k extra aye?? Now you'll have even more $$$ to spend on ya bucket, then ya might be able to beat me.
Hmmm now, lets see. YOUR bucket has mostly functional suspension and slicks. MY bucket has a reasonable front end, but the shocks are completely farked. MY bucket has 18" Yokohama's- not made since the Kobi earthquake.

Might?

[texmo]

good on ya tony.... make sure to do as little work as possible in your remaning days and sleeping at the desk is a must!

[Lou Girardin]

constructive dismissal doesnt apply until they, you know, DISMISS ya. you cant take someone to court on that basis if you resign voluntarily!
.

Constructive dismissal is when they deliberately make work so unpleasant that you have no choice but to resign. They don't actually have to dismiss you.

[vifferman]

Well that's good news, Tony (and Dangerous). :2thumbsup

Hope things work out well for both of you in your new jobs.


Um... anyone got a new job for me? At the moment I'm thinking of chucking in this IT crap, and getting a job grooming cars/bikes, or summat.

[Gremlin]

Constructive dismissal is when they deliberately make work so unpleasant that you have no choice but to resign. They don't actually have to dismiss you.
Also, if you have a staff member who is crap at something, and you offer up a course for them to go on.

If they refuse and ask you what will happen if they don't do it, and you happen to mention the word fired, you are :buggerd:

ie, it was pre-planned. Very bad... Dad got done with that one from an employee...

[jrandom]

Constructive dismissal is when they deliberately make work so unpleasant that you have no choice but to resign. They don't actually have to dismiss you.

oh, is it? dunno why I thought otherwise.

suppose I should really read up on that before spouting off.

[Aitch]

Tony:
tell em to fuck off! then fuck off yourself....

[TonyB]

tell em to fuck off! then fuck off yourself....
Doing it on Monday :wari:

[Aitch]

then they'll see just how good they really are! :doh:

[TonyB]

Well what a non event that was! Resignation tendered and accepted..... but they were really quite shocked, "Gobsmacked" was the word used. Definitely didn't seem to have any idea it was going to happen. Strangely I don't feel like a great weight has been lifted or anything- maybe after 6 years working in the same place it's going to take a while to sink in??

A huuuuuge thanks to everyone that helped me out with this. :rockon:

[Storm]

And now you are a free man :D Shows how switched on they werent eh?

[Biff]

Well what a non event that was! Resignation tendered and accepted.....

The very best of luck T. You know where I am if you need any help.

[TonyB]

Cheers Biff.

Ain't KB a great place? :grouphug:

[Sniper]

I extend that offer too Tony. Well done mate.

[dangerous]

Cheers Biff.

Ain't KB a great place? :grouphug:
I smell an imposter :spudwave: Hi M

[TonyB]

I smell an imposter :spudwave: Hi M
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!! Wrong! Tis me, T!

[James Deuce]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!! Wrong! Tis me, T!

He's gone soft D.

Go round and beat him up.

Weird how your employer/tormentor can be so deluded themselves. I've had that reaction at 2 jobs now, where I worked my proverbial off and got nothing but negative feedback. GOt looked at like I'd gone mad when I handed my resignation in.

Bet you're a nicer person to live with now too.

Best of luck Tony.

[TonyB]

He's gone soft D.

Go round and beat him up.

Weird how your employer/tormentor can be so deluded themselves. I've had that reaction at 2 jobs now, where I worked my proverbial off and got nothing but negative feedback. GOt looked at like I'd gone mad when I handed my resignation in.

Bet you're a nicer person to live with now too.

Best of luck Tony.
Thanks Jim,
Know what you mean- how could they NOT bloody know. And yep I think maybe I am a nicer person to live with. MrsB will no doubt hi-jack my user name to refute that LOL.

As for D coming around to beat me up- dunno about that, but I'm trying to convince him to drop in and show me a new toy he just bought :niceone:

[Sniper]

I want to ride the new toy he bought.

[inlinefour]

I wasted 9 years working for idiots as a deckhand on commercial fishing vessels. I thought I had forced the end of employment when I pushed the boss off the pier, but he actually came back around to get me for the next trip. I'd allready looked at retraining in something I could enjoy and was booked in for my first course. We parted on good terms and he was a tad surprised apparently. :whocares:

[texmo]

Tony make sure you take the 1-2 week cooling off period between jobs that way you get a nice little holiday to play with buckets before you start your new job.