We're famous since five minutes ago

[Ixion]

from the official labour website http://www.labour.org.nz (http://www.labour.org.nz)



Labour MPs on their bikes to protest ACC levy hikes

Hon. Phil Goff (http://labour.org.nz/mps/hon-phil-goff) | Friday, October 30, 2009 15:34
Labour MPs will be riding motorbikes to events tomorrow marking the nationwide day of protest against the Government’s massive ACC levy hikes.
The Government plans to treble the levy from $252 to $735 for bikes over 600cc, an increase of just under $500 a year.
The events, organised by the Ulysses motorcycle club, are expected to draw thousands of motorcycle enthusiasts and supporters who are fiercely opposed to the unfair levy rise.
Labour MPs including leader Phil Goff and deputy leader Annette King will be attending events in Manukau and Wellington respectively.
Protest events in these and other centres including Christchurch and Hamilton will be attended by Labour MPs Clayton Cosgrove, Grant Robertson, Charles Chauvel, Brendon Burns, Nanaia Mahuta, Carmel Sepuloni and David Shearer.
Details of local events are at: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php

[Maha]

Yeah we'll show them there Nats bastards.....:Punk:

[FJRider]

Sooooooo ..... we will all be voting Labour next election then ... ???

[Ixion]

Don't have to VOTE for them. Just make National think you won't vote for THEM.

The biker community probably has significant influence over about 250000 votes.

Even , say, 20% of that swinging could put a government in or out of power.

And you may be ABSOLUTELY sure that national back room guys will be surveying the electorates and crunching the numbers.

That's why Labour's officially swung in behind us, not because they love us.

They see national on the back foot and sense a winnable fight.

[carver]

Both sides are the same..

lying socialists....

[FJRider]

Don't have to VOTE for them. Just make National think.



not because they love us.



I left in the important stuff

[Kevnz]

The Election campaign has started early.Could be a bit of hand shaking and "holding the baby" photos going on. See you there...

[StoneY]

Well, Phil wanted to join the BIKEOI but we decided best he greet us at Parliament instead :laugh:
(not having righteous gear and all)

Good on him, I vote for who I vote for regardless, but it never was the Nats, that's just me, and it wont necessarily be Labour either

Good on em for whatever mercenary reasons they backing us, but it is true a few of their bike riding MPs have been punching on our side since day dot
And the Greens too.

Whether or not its just to stir Nat's up its good support, lets embrace it

[mossy1200]

Both sides are the same..

lying socialists....

Yes but I would rather they lied to someone else and left me alone.Im self serving cause being nice doesnt work apparently.

[Skyryder]

Don't have to VOTE for them. Just make National think you won't vote for THEM.

The biker community probably has significant influence over about 250000 votes.

Even , say, 20% of that swinging could put a government in or out of power.

And you may be ABSOLUTELY sure that national back room guys will be surveying the electorates and crunching the numbers.

That's why Labour's officially swung in behind us, not because they love us.

They see national on the back foot and sense a winnable fight.

There is an old Arab saying: my enemies enemy is my friend. If the Nats believed that a biker backlash is possible at the next election they might just might change their tune.

Pesonaly I'd be planning for another ride to Parliment about six weeks prior to the next election. However I'm not too sure the biker community has the staying power on this issue. Still it's a thought and there is plenty of time to plan and see what interest there is.


Skyryder

[Vern]

Nah Winston's the man he gets my vote.Vern

[Naki Rat]

There is an old Arab saying: my enemies enemy is my friend. If the Nats believed that a biker backlash is possible at the next election they might just might change their tune.

Pesonaly I'd be planning for another ride to Parliment about six weeks prior to the next election. However I'm not too sure the biker community has the staying power on this issue. Still it's a thought and there is plenty of time to plan and see what interest there is.


Skyryder

So during the Rugby World Cup is a little late then ? <_<

[caseye]

I left in the important stuff

Love it LOL
Great news there Ixion.
Yes everyone as long as the Nat boys and girls sense there will be mass movement from us Older, family orientated,working,tax paying citizenery then they will be begining to worry that someone has given them a Bum Steer!

Sykrider, that is a truely great idea, even if it never happened the mere threat of resurecting this whole thing , then would scare em silly!:jerry::jerry:

[merv]

Both sides are the same..

lying socialists....

What, you don't like Finn's Government?

[Kevnz]

Nah Winston's the man he gets my vote.Vern

Winston will put a levy on foreigners on bikes :laugh:Won't see him at the protest rides, he'll be at a Grey Power meeting.

[Mully]

Both sides are the same..

I have a dog. And his name is BINGO!!!

There's an old saying that it's the Opposition's job to oppose everything the Govt of the day does or says.

And the Nats will be paying a lot of attention to this.

In all honesty, Labour should have jumped on this bandwagon weeks ago.

Still, good work to keep this on the radar, everyone. Keep it up.

[StoneY]

Winston will put a levy on foreigners on bikes :laugh:Won't see him at the protest rides, he'll be at a Grey Power meeting.

Well we have enough grey power in my beard alone!!!!
And a bit in the BIKEOI...ooops

Winnie on a ginny toofiddy????????

[wingrider]

And the Nats will be paying a lot of attention to this.

In all honesty, Labour should have jumped on this bandwagon weeks ago.

Still, good work to keep this on the radar, everyone. Keep it up.

Perhaps Labour have done the right thing in holding back only if it was to see what sort of reaction there would be.

Given the massive negative reaction, and that it has also highlighted other issues, they now have a backing from a large proportion of the population to stir up emotions. I bet they will use the same argument that this is going to cost national an election. backbenchers and list MP's will be rockin the boat for sure.
What about the minority parties that fear a backlash if they continue to support? Look what happened to NZ First.
JMHO wise move me thinks.

[howdamnhard]

There is an old Arab saying: my enemies enemy is my friend. If the Nats believed that a biker backlash is possible at the next election they might just might change their tune.
Skyryder

Very true Skyryder , the Nats need to know that this might hurt them. Strength in numbers , hope there will be a good turnout tomorrow, bring a friend.

Labour getting behind us bikers is great news Ixion , it will give us more media attention.

[Pixie]

Both sides are the same..

lying socialists....

All the more reason to use the whores and then toss them aside.

[Ixion]

..

In all honesty, Labour should have jumped on this bandwagon weeks ago.

..

They wouldn't jump until they were confident it was a winner.

Small party like Greens can afford to back an issues on principle, even if it tanks. In fact it's sort of expected. Main stream Labour, they can't risk backing something that turns into a train wreck.

They were waiting to see how we came across

If we'd come across as incoherent neanderthals, or gotten offside with the public , they wouldn't have come forward.

They'll have had their policy analysts checking us out for weeks, and their surveyers checking out what the public think. And they've come back with - "Yes- support these guys, it's winnable and the public are on their side"

They're not on side with us because they love us - they just see the issue as one where the public support us against Natinal. So they want a piece of the action

For interest, compare the reaction of the politial parties, us versus the boy races. Latter have been served up a massive legislative clip upside the head with pretty much all parties nodding and saying "Hit them again".

[Quasievil]

Interesting to note a few ACC t Shirts being sold to labour party members with @parliment.govt.nz emails addys

[Ixion]

My original interest was tickled by the fact that Mr Goff's quote talks about the Ulysses meeting but provides KB as the link for info !


(Which is logical - there's NO information at all on the Ulysses website)

[Oakie]

- there's NO information at all on the Ulysses website

I noticed that. I went to their website to see what they're doing here in ChCh ... nil, zip , nada!

[Conquiztador]

I noticed that. I went to their website to see what they're doing here in ChCh ... nil, zip , nada!

And I had a looksie yesterday wondering where they did something in HB. But not even on KB could I find something. So I got up early and started sorting the house as kids are with their mum.

Then I had a cuppa and a read of our local paper "HB Today" and on pge 4 there is an article about that Ulysses has a protest at Anderson park in Taradale at 11.30am - 1pm today... Someone could have told me!

But a good reason to blow the cobwebs of Shirley...

[robo555]

Remember that it was originally the labour party who somehow 'forgot' the ACC budget was millions in debt.

[Blue TLS]

Remember that it was originally the labour party who somehow 'forgot' the ACC budget was millions in debt.

youre missing the fact that acc made a profit last year and are not in debt to anybody. National has some very creative accounting going on at the moment

[Rayray401]

youre missing the fact that acc made a profit last year and are not in debt to anybody. National has some very creative accounting going on at the moment

Nope, you can make a profit, and still be in a lot of debt to creditors. If all the revenue that ACC are getting are on credit, they could have a huge profit, but if theyre not actually receiving any cash from their debtors, then ACC still fails as they wont be able to meet their debts.

[YellowDog]

Don't have to VOTE for them. Just make National think you won't vote for THEM.

The biker community probably has significant influence over about 250000 votes.

Even , say, 20% of that swinging could put a government in or out of power.

And you may be ABSOLUTELY sure that national back room guys will be surveying the electorates and crunching the numbers.

That's why Labour's officially swung in behind us, not because they love us.

They see national on the back foot and sense a winnable fight.
I don't think it matters who you vote for.

This is just one issue and Labour may have done the same or something worse if they were in power.

That is not important however what is important is that the level of this debate has been raised considerably.

We are no longer a bunch of no hopers (not that I thought we were) to the eyes of the media.

Many congrats to all those who have worked so hard at this.

There's still a long way to go yet.

[Mully]

If all the revenue that ACC are getting are on credit, they could have a huge profit, but if theyre not actually receiving any cash from their debtors, then ACC still fails as they wont be able to meet their debts.

Umm, what??

At what point does ACC give credit to people who then don't pay?

Possibly the odd small business which folds before they pay their earner levies, but for the most part, ACC gets a big pot of cash from everybody regularly.

Blue TLS was mostly correct (National aren't doing the creative accounting - they're just trying to take advantage of it). ACC took $1.1 Billion more than they paid out last year. It has reserves of about $11 Billion. In fact, their CEO was in today's Dominion Post saying how well they were doing.

This has only come about because of a change in accounting practices and a change in policy of how they fund long-term claims.

[Ixion]

The monkey obsessed gentleman is correct.

ACC doesn't really have bugger all debtors and it would be hard for it to have much bad debt. Money is collected for it by IRD and LTNZ, or paid direct by the government

The so called "deficit" is an accounting fiction, which is based on the premise that "If you went out of business tomorrow and nobody paid you any more money, you'd be in shit". But that's not ever really going to happen, because ACC is a government entity. It can't go out of business unless the government goes out of business.

One could just as easily postulate that WINZ has a massive deficit, with no reserves at ll.

[MIXONE]

A good turnout of about 500 bikes today in Wellington.Annette King spoke well and was mainly well recieved.The average age of the bikers there was into the Ulysses age group but with a good range down to children as pillions.
Was that Stoney who spoke briefly at the end to promote the Bikoi?
Well done anyway whoever it was and good to see leaflets being handed out promoting the 17th.

[Laxi]

yep that was our stoneY!:clap: was funny, prick smith turned up conveniently after everyone had left, (must have been scared of the 500+ bikies huh?) pitty cause every biker would have got a damn good laugh out of the "conversation" he and brent had on the steps! that guy is an idiot, good on ya stoneY for not slappin him one

[caseye]

Took a ride down to Hammytron to help out the guys and girls dwon there today, 4 of us rode together, we were preceeded by many other groups of riders going there too.A Fantastic turn out.
Ulysses of Hamilton take a bow.
Nat MP's showed up, took the stage and answered some of the hecklers, their figures were totally askew fromanything we'veseen so far and they're still spouting the party line, that we're not happy about how much the increases are and may be willing to accept a lesser figure, As If!

[carver]

Took a ride down to Hammytron to help out the guys and girls dwon there today, 4 of us rode together, we were preceeded by many other groups of riders going there too.A Fantastic turn out.
Ulysses of Hamilton take a bow.
Nat MP's showed up, took the stage and answered some of the hecklers, their figures were totally askew fromanything we'veseen so far and they're still spouting the party line, that we're not happy about how much the increases are and may be willing to accept a lesser figure, As If!

haha, it was kinda funny, i wanted to see a riot

[StoneY]

yep that was our stoneY!:clap: was funny, prick smith turned up conveniently after everyone had left, (must have been scared of the 500+ bikies huh?) pitty cause every biker would have got a damn good laugh out of the "conversation" he and brent had on the steps! that guy is an idiot, good on ya stoneY for not slappin him one


He did greet me fairly confidently, and I surprised myself by out debating him.

He had no answer to the lessening of the crash rate (yes its actually LESS per capita ratio of bikes registered)

He thinks there are only 50,000 registered bikes, I shot him down at that point said "there are 116,000 according to the MOT, you dont even have accurate figures mate, anyway see you on the 17th"
:laugh:

Surprised myself, even, hes a pushover in a argument...amazing

O.O

[Conquiztador]

There was no info re the HB one (well, not what I could see). Noticed an article in the Saturday HB Today 1 1/2 hour before the Ulysses "protest" was to start. Txt my son, and we rocked up at 11.30am. There was approx 50 bikes (give or take). Low key. Nobody did anything. After 15 min we were contemplating going to the pub. (Should have...)

Then a chap took the microphone and asked us to get closer. He told us he was the Ulysses HB something. He had a 5 minute speech. But inside that 5 min he got of the track. He pushed the issue that this was a problem for everyone. He started talking about how everyone would have to pay more. Then he asked if anyone had something to say... Nobody did.

None of the politicians turned up. There was a pic taken by the newspaper of us and apart from the crappy "Target" A4 poster being pushed around that was it. We were gone at 12.15 pm.

Oh yeah, he spoke re the 14 Nov and 17 Nov rides. But made it sound like Ulysses was organising it...

EDIT: Oh yeah, I (as a result of my age) have participated in protests. There has been NO NUKES (What a waste...), NO MORE BOAT REFUGEES TO SWEDEN (yep!), And heaps more. Can sort of remember one in the 70's re freedom of speech. No idea what that was about. But this one (above) had nothing to do with protesting. Seriously, if we want this issue to be recognised don't let Ulysses be in charge of anything!!!

[bogan]

He did greet me fairly confidently, and I surprised myself by out debating him.

He had no answer to the lessening of the crash rate (yes its actually LESS per capita ratio of bikes registered)

He thinks there are only 50,000 registered bikes, I shot him down at that point said "there are 116,000 according to the MOT, you dont even have accurate figures mate, anyway see you on the 17th"
:laugh:

Surprised myself, even, hes a pushover in a argument...amazing

O.O

brilliant work, wish i'd stayed a bit longer to witness that!

[StoneY]

brilliant work, wish i'd stayed a bit longer to witness that!

Bogan, I can fight, that's easy:bash:

Brilliant work is the artwork you, retro-asian and other tallented folk have done

This BIKEOI has united this fractious pack of riders like nothing before.:yes:

[BMWST?]

yep that was our stoneY!:clap: was funny, prick smith turned up conveniently after everyone had left, (must have been scared of the 500+ bikies huh?) pitty cause every biker would have got a damn good laugh out of the "conversation" he and brent had on the steps! that guy is an idiot, good on ya stoneY for not slappin him one

he isnt an idiot Laxi,he had very reasonable arguments to refute arguments put to him.We must not think that they are idiots and will have no response.Quite the reverse in fact.Its why I beleive our argument must be that this is against the whole premise of what ACC is about.

[Laxi]

he isnt an idiot Laxi,he had very reasonable arguments to refute arguments put to him.We must not think that they are idiots and will have no response.Quite the reverse in fact.Its why I beleive our argument must be that this is against the whole premise of what ACC is about.


He did greet me fairly confidently, and I surprised myself by out debating him.

He had no answer to the lessening of the crash rate (yes its actually LESS per capita ratio of bikes registered)

He thinks there are only 50,000 registered bikes, I shot him down at that point said "there are 116,000 according to the MOT, you dont even have accurate figures mate, anyway see you on the 17th"
:laugh:

Surprised myself, even, hes a pushover in a argument...amazing

O.O

if a minister is trying to use statistics to prove a point, and he dosn't even know the correct stats then imho he is farrking idiot and i'll call him 1

[caseye]

A minister being feed incorrect, inept and untenable figures doesn't make them fools per se.It does tell you something about them as individuals who either haven't got the time or didn't make to time to check the figures given to them.
Nick Smith might well be asking some very searching questions of his support staff about now, yes he's probably still at work.
For our sakes I hope he now! gets the right information and is able to form a better opinion in his own mind of what we as a professional, law abiding group of middle aged motorcycling enthusiasts are actually so damnd Mad About.
Treated fairly along with every other "No Fault" users of ACC we'd happily shoulder the load, but not this , not like this and not being treated as somehow leprocitic aliens who ride big horrible motorbikes.

[StoneY]

Oh I also note, he had no reply to my "it was never formed as an insurance scheme, its a no fault covenant with the state, and when did that ever stipulate to charge the victims of accidents for the fact they get hurt?"

I got a myopic stare back for that question
We will win

[Skyryder]

So during the Rugby World Cup is a little late then ? <_<

Personally I don't see any advantage in upsetting the rugby 'crowd' in order to reinforce our opposition to the ACC levies. Like it or not Key's government are going to vote next year on the changes and any opposition towards the World Cup is not only too late but will not affect any reductions further down the track.

The reality is if the biker community wants to be effective they need to demonstrate in such a manner where they can 'influence' one party as against the other. A mass rally on the steps of parliament prior to the next election would if I had any influence be the thing to do.


Skyryder

[Madmax]

The monkey obsessed gentleman is correct.

ACC doesn't really have bugger all debtors and it would be hard for it to have much bad debt. Money is collected for it by IRD and LTNZ, or paid direct by the government

The so called "deficit" is an accounting fiction, which is based on the premise that "If you went out of business tomorrow and nobody paid you any more money, you'd be in shit". But that's not ever really going to happen, because ACC is a government entity. It can't go out of business unless the government goes out of business.

One could just as easily postulate that WINZ has a massive deficit, with no reserves at ll.
Stop calling him a gentleman

[Mully]

Stop calling him a gentleman

Why am I not a gentleman??

(i.e. What'd I do?)