Public support coming our way [Archive]

taff1954

31st October 2009, 20:21

Bren

31st October 2009, 20:52

I really believe that the motorcycling community is a force to be reckoned with...We may not have huge numbers but we are passionate in what we do. It is also a very diverse community with a lot of professionals in it including lawyers and such. we are not all just a rabble of uneducated rednecks...(only some of us)...

Indeed they may have just awaken a sleeping giant. Isoroku Yamamoto was killed flying reconnaissance, lets shoot down these other bastards!!!

BMWST?

31st October 2009, 21:04

I've been really pleased, and a little surprised, with the level of support coming our way from the non - motorcycling public. I've been hearing a lot of "go for it you guys" at work, at the servo, everywhere.

The best, and most interesting comment came this evening from a bloke who admits he's always been scared of motorbikes His comment was 'I wonder if Key, Smith and English are hearing Admiral Yamamoto's words?'

Those words? - I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve
we are a long way of winning yet.Nick Smith turned up at Wellington at the end of the "rally" and he had reasonable arguments to refute every point that was raised.
A story was told of a biker(well paid) who was on ACC (80 percent of his income) for 10 years .He was GIVEN a small 4wd by acc cos he could not drive his own car any more.They are the sort of payment regimes that rack up 62 Million very quickly.

StoneY

31st October 2009, 21:14

Yes and yes, and yeas again, we are right now the publics wee 'oh those poor biker' darlings

we are oozing sympathy so lets capitalize on it. Get 'look for biker' campaigns going, safety initiatives, make the public see us and use this good fuzzy feelings to win hearts

sorry 4th glass of red....Nicky 0 StoneY 1
:lol:

taff1954

31st October 2009, 21:16

I'm not for a moment suggesting we are anywhere near winning, what intrigued me was this guys comment was based on the fact that he had, up until a few days ago, no idea how many bikers there are in this country, and thet they could pull together. What is does show is that it's not only bikers who are anti the levy increases.

nothingflash

31st October 2009, 21:19

sorry 4th glass of red....:lol:

Good on ya - you deserve it!

Ocean1

1st November 2009, 08:50

WHy don't we start compiling our own data set?

We can start with each of us adding up what we paid ACC last year. Probably not possible to have you break it down into sector/account payments but if you can it'd help.

For me it was about $6,000, I could detail that if there's enough support for the idea.

davereid

1st November 2009, 08:56

A story was told of a biker(well paid) who was on ACC (80 percent of his income) for 10 years .He was GIVEN a small 4wd by acc cos he could not drive his own car any more.They are the sort of payment regimes that rack up 62 Million very quickly.

My stepson had a diving accident and is now a full care tetraplegic.

ACC has meant he has the best possible care available in the entire world, and there is no insurance scheme that as a teenager he would have been involved in that would work as well as ACC has.

Its completely irrelevant that he was diving. It should also be completely irrelevant that he was playing rugby, hockey, mountain biking, or motorcycling.

It was even irrelevant that as a teenager he had no insurance and had never paid a dollar into ACC.

We simply don't need to get drawn into these arguments.

Pixie

1st November 2009, 08:56

we are not all just a rabble of uneducated rednecks.....

Speak for yourself:sunny:

StoneY

1st November 2009, 09:05

we are a long way of winning yet.Nick Smith turned up at Wellington at the end of the "rally" and he had reasonable arguments to refute every point that was raised.

Paul, I went head to head with Nicky boy for 5 minutes, and won point after point.
He had the flawed numbers, he had nothing new or of value, and if a dunce like me out debated him (in Hawkeye and Laxi's presence no less) then someone like Kari (Nasty to us) with the real facts for ammo will pwn his sorry ass (gamer term for OWNED! boom headshot!)

He waited till the whole rally had completely dispersed, I was the only 'organizer' left there, Ulysses, the 'hosts' were gone too and as the BIKEOI guy got some facetime

Mind you he has a good sense of humor, we laughed about the 'shit head' and he reckons he might buy it for his patio!
Beyond the ACC bs and partyline crap he seemed like a nice enough bloke, but maybe he should have come out 10 minutes earlier?

idleidolidyll

1st November 2009, 09:08

I've noticed a distinct disconnect in this whole debate: it is being framed as bikers vs the ACC.

Get this straight, it is the GOVERNMENT driving this change not the ACC dept. ACC are told what to do by govt and guided by govt policy.
This is nothing less than the first step in the planned destructiojn of one of the best social benefit systems on the planet in order to privatise the industry on behalf of (mostly) foreign interests.

Don't scream at the ACC, scream and shout at National, ACT and the Maori Parties who are behind this disgrace. If you don't, you have been completely suckered by the egenda setters.

I was at the Manukau rally yesterday and I saw mainly men out there participating. National and ACT are mainly supported by males and it is likely therefore that the majority of you voted for the parties that are behind this. If you really give a damn; tell your MP that you are a National, ACT or Maori party voter and you are pissed, so pissed you will be giving your vote to Labour or the Greens: nothing less will change their minds.

As for action: good on yer for the work Ulysseus but I disagree; we need disruptive action in order to get media coverage and put our points across directly. The media is owned by big business and it is not in the interest of their advertisers to frame this debate in our favour. Only we will get the story out; editors won't go far enough as they are always cognisant of the effect on their advertising income.

This ACC levy increase is NATIONAL Party policy! You voted them in, did you not expect them to fuck you over (again) just as they tried to do last time they had power?

Mully

1st November 2009, 09:40

cheshirecat

1st November 2009, 11:36

I've noticed since this first broke that we seem to have a lot of the public on-side with this - along the lines of "I'm not a biker, but that's not fair"

We need to keep this momentum. Which is why we need to not have idiots doing wheelies or burnouts on protest rides.

The only thing politicians will listen to is sheer numbers of people saying "I do not approve of this". Hopefully, now that the Greens and Labour are vocally onside, we can use their media whoring for the powers for good.

Agree.
Politicians (Labour) Welly council, Police (only saw two) seemed happy. Everyone was brilliant, hundreds of bikers organised themselves, didn't cause any traffic disruption and parked sensibly in a small area. Good humour, kids around. We didn't alienate anyone except those who were targeted - National Party/ACC.
it was also a good argument for Welly parking

Ixion

1st November 2009, 12:01

I've noticed a distinct disconnect in this whole debate: it is being framed as bikers vs the ACC.

Which is why the protests are going to Parliament and not the ACC offices? And why Auckland bikers are flash mobbing national electorate offices and conferences? Yo're behind the fair, mate. We all made that connection weeks ago.

We DO have the public on our side. We may be absolutely certain of that because if we didn't there is no way Labour would have publically swung behind us. And their analysis of public opinion wil be far more comprehensive than anything we could do

There is an element within the National party that is almost obsessionally fascinated by the NSW anti-biker laws. And want the same thing in this country.

I'm quite sure that in their mind , and in John Judge's, motorcyclist morphed into biker morphed into bikie morphed into gang

They never expected any strong protest (how much protest have they had about the far more exacting laws passed against boy racers?) . And they thought if there were it would be easy to portray us as greasy anti-social Neanderthals communicating in grunts and yells.

And now it's all gone wrong. The public are on OUR side, and they (ACC and Nats) are standing up against a whole spectrum of people none of whom fit the stereotype.

They don't know how to handle it, and I suspect that around now they're starting to look for an out.

Labour obvious intend to make a last ditch stand against the ACC changes (not just our levies). The Nats will NOT want that opposition being fronted by a popular and very media friendly opposition to motorcycle levies.

In John Key's vision whatever we cost ACC is chicken feed. The damage the government are taking already is far greater.

This is winnable. Not won, and it won't be easy, or painless. But it's winnable.

MIXONE

1st November 2009, 12:13

Ixion

1st November 2009, 12:17

There is a time and a place for every purpose under Heaven.

Patience , grasshopper , and pass the time reading Sun Tzu.

idleidolidyll

1st November 2009, 12:19

Which is why the protests are going to Parliament and not the ACC offices? And why Auckland bikers are flash mobbing national electorate offices and conferences? Yo're behind the fair, mate. We all made that connection weeks ago.

But we continue to lay off directly attacking the cause (National and ACT) in pretty much all printed material and when speaking to the media.

There's a big difference in an unspoken 'knowledge' that National and ACT are behind this tax and printing that fact in all our publications as well as specifically stating that we are against the GOVERNMENT policies in the media.

No, I'm afraid you are the one behind the fair, unless we directly and voiciferously attack the cause, the politicians will have the last laugh. We will get a 200% rise and be happy we didn't get 300%.

So lets be clear to ALL: this is not about the ACC charging more; it's about NATIONAL and ACT trying to destroy ACC and using us as the first installment.

idleidolidyll

1st November 2009, 12:21

I think the way the protests are going at the moment is the right way.Keep Joe Public onside and of course we are going to get Labour support.Let's face it they are polies so anything to get one over the opposion.
However if the govt. still isn't listening after the 17th I for one would be quite willing to do a burnout on the front steps of the beehive.

By the 17th it will already be too late. NATIONAL and ACT have the votes to pass this crap after debate on the 10th.

So far it's all feel good stuff, we feel good 'cause we're doing something.
They feel good 'cause we haven't caused any disruption.

It aint gonna feel good when they pass this shit and we get a shaft rammed up our collective jacksies.

Jantar

1st November 2009, 12:55

By the 17th it will already be too late. NATIONAL and ACT have the votes to pass this crap after debate on the 10th.

So far it's all feel good stuff, we feel good 'cause we're doing something.
They feel good 'cause we haven't caused any disruption.

It aint gonna feel good when they pass this shit and we get a shaft rammed up our collective jacksies.
You are confusing changes to the ACC act and changes to Levies. The minister doesn't need support to change the levies, he already has that right to do so by ministerial decree. The amount of the change is included in recommendations to the minister from ACC. It is changes in philosophy that are driven by the government to ACC.

In this case we don't want to be misled into the wrong fight. Our initial fight is against the hike in Levies and to do this we must fight on two fronts. We must send in our submissions and try to convince ACC that their data and methodology is flawed and that they should change their recomenadtions to the minister. We must also protest and lobby with politicians as our target so that whatever recomendation comes forward from ACC is not accepted by the minister.

At this stage we must also stay clear of any further battles regarding opening ACC up to competion or to privatisation. That is an issue that could divide us and lead us to losing the main fight. Lets keep focussed here.

Ozzie

1st November 2009, 13:15

This ACC levy increase is NATIONAL Party policy! You voted them in, did you not expect them to fuck you over (again) just as they tried to do last time they had power?

Haven't got a vest yet, but reading this, I agree, instead of slander ACC, going to have a big N on it, "I used to Vote National!" maybe even get a sticker made up for the rear window of my Ute.

davereid

1st November 2009, 13:46

By the 17th it will already be too late. NATIONAL and ACT have the votes to pass this crap after debate on the 10th.

The legislation being passed is to delay the full funding of ACC that Labour introduced. Its intended to lower increases.

As Jantar points out, the ACC board can set the levies at any rate they wish, the minister just signs them off.

Pixie

1st November 2009, 17:49

You are confusing changes to the ACC act and changes to Levies. The minister doesn't need support to change the levies, he already has that right to do so by ministerial decree. The amount of the change is included in recommendations to the minister from ACC. It is changes in philosophy that are driven by the government to ACC.

In this case we don't want to be misled into the wrong fight. Our initial fight is against the hike in Levies and to do this we must fight on two fronts. We must send in our submissions and try to convince ACC that their data and methodology is flawed and that they should change their recomenadtions to the minister. We must also protest and lobby with politicians as our target so that whatever recomendation comes forward from ACC is not accepted by the minister.

At this stage we must also stay clear of any further battles regarding opening ACC up to competion or to privatisation. That is an issue that could divide us and lead us to losing the main fight. Lets keep focussed here.

No no no our fight is against the filthy capitalists.We should stand with our red brothers and....
Sorry,I think I was channeling some commie arsehole for a moment there

pete376403

1st November 2009, 19:53

As Jantar points out, the ACC board can set the levies at any rate they wish, the minister just signs them off.

Bearing in mind that the ACC board is a collection of Smith appointees, put in place to make the recommendations that Smith wants.

Ixion

1st November 2009, 20:08

At this stage we must also stay clear of any further battles regarding opening ACC up to competion or to privatisation. That is an issue that could divide us and lead us to losing the main fight. Lets keep focussed here.

I completely agree.

Our gripe is with ACC levies on motorcycles.

Nothing else

That is what we must focus on.

The ACC , with the connivance if not at the instigation, of the National government want to shaft us. There's our fight.

This is not,and should not become, a party political question.

Labour have come out in support of us. That's nice, thank you very much.

But they are not doing it because they love us or because Phil Goff has rediscovered motorcycling. They are doing it because they perceive us as a high profile stick with which to beat the government. And once we are no longer of use to them they will cast us aside without a second thought.

Stick to the point. Damn the levies.

MSTRS

1st November 2009, 20:30

....Nick Smith turned up at Wellington at the end of the "rally" and he had reasonable arguments to refute every point that was raised.
...

He has NO 'reasonable' arguments. All he has is ill-formed bluster, based on misleading and/or deceitful 'advice'.
Post #8 is all the proof one needs.

Naki Rat

1st November 2009, 20:59

He has NO 'reasonable' arguments. All he has is ill-formed bluster, based on misleading and/or deceitful 'advice'.
Post #8 is all the proof one needs.

It is maybe worth reminding a few people that the Emissions Trading Scheme numbers were dreamed up by the same person that is trying to use this load of BS to shaft us.

taff1954

5th November 2009, 05:35

Editorial in todays (5 Nov) Taranaki Daily News. Some support from the press no less.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/3032764/Editorial-Govt-sees-bikers-as-easy-money

Chisanga

5th November 2009, 07:53

Editorial in todays (5 Nov) Taranaki Daily News. Some support from the press no less.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/3032764/Editorial-Govt-sees-bikers-as-easy-money

That's quite a good article actually :)

duckonin

5th November 2009, 08:08

we are a long way of winning yet.Nick Smith turned up at Wellington at the end of the "rally" and he had reasonable arguments to refute every point that was raised.
A story was told of a biker(well paid) who was on ACC (80 percent of his income) for 10 years .He was GIVEN a small 4wd by acc cos he could not drive his own car any more.They are the sort of payment regimes that rack up 62 Million very quickly.

And the story (true) of a chap in a motor vehicle accident (head on) had been drinking, who has had over 1mill for the last twenty years god knows how many op's his house fully re decked for wheelchair bla bla bla....Plenty of these from motor vehicle accidents, this also eats up the bikkies real quick..:innocent: