These people are entrusted in enforcing the law?

[Coyote]

As some of you may remember, I got that ticket for doing 63 in a 50 zone, even though I was doing my bloody best to abide the law (like changing the direction of my indicators like 3 times in 5 metres round a roundabout {incredibly stupid law I must add}). Anyway, out of 5 cars doing 70 and me doing 63 in this 50 zone, I get pulled aside, and get ticket $80 and 20 demerits, and being my first offence, I still get no warning.

Anyway, look at the ticket, it had 'Vehicle type: car'. So I thought why not try and get this ticket discredited. Teach them to follow L plates untill they make mistakes.
This was the letter:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/11418/My%20letter.JPG

I had help from my Dad, as he is a english teacher, and we tried to make it as formal and polite as possible

Just yesterday, got a letter back. I read it and thought 'phff, typical excuse', but then I read closer, try and spot the mistakes:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/11418/madam%202.JPG

Daniell???? MADAM?!?!?!?!?

Did this guy just call me a girl?!

I though 'motherfuckers, I send a polite letter saying step up, your making mistakes, and you discredit my gender?!'

I'm unsure of what to do now. I should give up and cough up, so the government has 80 bucks to spend on fairycakes, but this just pissed me off, I don't want to pay up after being name called!

The plan is to send a letter in response, again being very formal and polite, not in the manner I've displayed here, asking for them to stop making mistakes and I don't want to pay the bloody ticket because of the treatment I've been given

What do you think?

[bugjuice]

lamo..
go for it - girl power!! n all that..

[Coyote]

lamo..
go for it - girl power!! n all that..
May I remind you:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/11418/I_m%20a%20guy%20dirwood.JPG
I'm a guy

[MSTRS]

32 years ago when I was a student at high school, I got a ticket which described my occupation as 'labourer'. Didn't get me out of it then and I doubt that you will either. These sort of errors are 'unimportant'

[bugjuice]

May I remind you:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/11418/I_m%20a%20guy%20dirwood.JPG
I'm a guy
not what the computers say, Ma'am. :Police:

[SuperDave]

If all these detail are unimportant as seems to be the case, then why bother with them to start? I was also wondering, when they ask you what job you do, does this directly reflect to value of the fine?

I'm a doctor - 'okay that will be $800'
I'm a student - 'okay that will be $300'

Although, I doubt that being a student would make any difference, might even up the value for them such as in pyrocams case just to be a cunt.

[pyrocam]

If all these detail are unimportant as seems to be the case, then why bother with them to start? I was also wondering, when they ask you what job you do, does this directly reflect to value of the fine?

I'm a doctor - 'okay that will be $800'
I'm a student - 'okay that will be $300'

Although, I doubt that being a student would make any difference, might even up the value for them such as in pyrocams case just to be a cunt.

aye?
I dont get it.
he wrote down computer tech. but he showed me why it was $400. hes got this little chart that goes 0-5 6-10... 36-39 etc etc Lucky he didnt clock me a few k's faster. or It would have been shit hitting the fan that day.

[Eddieb]

My father recently (Last 3 months) got off a ticket for much the same reason.
He drives a late model Honda Civic 'Orthia' wagon, they look very similiar to some late model Legacy's.

He was issued a ticket with the correct rego etc but the car was stated as a subaru legacy.

What was amusing was the cop sat in his car, right behind dad's car writing the ticket and the civic has a huge 'CIVIC' sticker right across the back window.

[SuperDave]

aye?
I dont get it.
he wrote down computer tech. but he showed me why it was $400. hes got this little chart that goes 0-5 6-10... 36-39 etc etc Lucky he didnt clock me a few k's faster. or It would have been shit hitting the fan that day.

I was kidding about that, but I was not shown a chart, nor did I see him with one. I thought that the fine value might be the cops discretion (obviously within limits). My ticket shows the list of demerits you can get and for what, but it doesn't mention anything about fines.

[Coyote]

If all these detail are unimportant as seems to be the case, then why bother with them to start? I was also wondering, when they ask you what job you do, does this directly reflect to value of the fine?

I'm a doctor - 'okay that will be $800'
I'm a student - 'okay that will be $300'

That would be good as $80 for me is almost a months worth of wages (roughly make $75 a month)

[thehollowmen]

I wonder if you could use that to go into ladies changing rooms :-P

[sAsLEX]

if the officer couldn't tell the difference between a 2 wheeled vehicle and a 4 wheeled one how could he tell you are speeding?!?, the numbers on the display must be far smaller than a car or bike! maybe he needs his eyes tested! Fair enough if a cop puts the wrong model down like legacy instead of legacy gtb or whatever but to mistake types of vehicles that have different laws governing them!?! that is just plain stupid!

[XP@]

If you decided to let them take you to court, then I wouldn't be surprised if they turned up wearing shorts and carrying a racket...

[Coyote]

I'm not likely to take this to court. Can't be stuffed

Will write a letter in response at least

[bugjuice]

Refer to him as Ms Bryan Healey.. see what s/he comes back with.
Then if it goes to court, ask your mum to pick out a nice frock for you..

[XP@]

I'm not likely to take this to court. Can't be stuffed

Will write a letter in response at least
Don't forget to show them that you are P155ED off now...

[Coyote]

Then if it goes to court, ask your mum to pick out a nice frock for you..
Do I have to remind you again?:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/11418/I_m%20a%20guy%20dirwood.JPG
I'm a guy

[bugjuice]

Do I have to remind you again?:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/12146/I_m%20a%20gal%20dirwood.JPG
I'm a gal
I know, I know.. I hear it all the time..

[k14]

Who cares, you were speeding and thats the fact. Do the crime do the time, stop whinging and just dont get caught next time.

[Coyote]

Who cares, you were speeding and thats the fact. Do the crime do the time, stop whinging and just dont get caught next time.
Yeah yeah, I'm going to cough up

Still annoying that they stuffed up twice though

[bugjuice]

you sure your parents aren't holding anything from you, and now the truth is coming out?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/12146/I_m%20a%20gal%20dirwood2.JPG

[Lou Girardin]

Who cares, you were speeding and thats the fact. Do the crime do the time, stop whinging and just dont get caught next time.

Yeah, whatever you do, don't exercise your right to have evidence tested.
Just spread your cheeks and grin. : :moon:

[inlinefour]

And to be honest I'm not sure its worth it for such a small ticket.

You'll have to get a Lawyer, and if you do not qualify for legal aid then that will be expensive. Once you are taken to court for not paying, then you raise these matters, with the help form the Lawyer (costing more $$$ by this stage) and the Judge should throw the matter out of court. From my limited knowledge, the ticket does have to be correct, pity they changed it. But hold onto the original because if they have put down car on it, then how do they know the speed was not from the car behind you? I've been pulled over after doing a tad over the limit, but with a dickhead in a cage up my butt. When I was asked why I was speeding, I replied I was not, but the car behind me was coming up pretty fast. Please explain to me why you stopped me and not the car!?! I think this matter needs the expert opinion of Spud, hopefully he will see it soon and reply with a post of his own :confused:

[XP@]

It may only be a small ticket, but...

It does equal points and points equal prizes!
the prizes are increased insurance and eventually loss of licence...

And for F's sake, if the copper could not tell the difference between car and bike or Mr and Mrs then I don't think that they would have a great grasp on reality.
With these fundamental errors was the copper not reading the speed gun upside down (error 9)?
Should he have stopped the car in front, but missed?

[Coyote]

Your right Honda, it's only a months wages, I should just spend it on the government prostitution fund

But then again, you can't let them get away with making these mistakes cause what happens if they put on your ticket 59kph over instead of 49kph over? That would mean licence disqualification for 28 days.

[Lou Girardin]

Your right Honda, it's only a months wages, I should just spend it on the government prostitution fund

But then again, you can't let them get away with making these mistakes cause what happens if they put on your ticket 59kph over instead of 49kph over? That would mean licence disqualification for 28 days.

Eggsactly!
While a simple error like that may not be enough to get off. If there are other errors, particularly operational ones you do have a good chance.
You don't need a lawyer to defend these matters, but you do need to be reasonably articulate to present your case in a full courtroom.
Contact Citizens advice too.

[riffer]

Just thinking here...

If they are addressing you as Daniell, you may have a case here.

It's not you. I'd wait for the new ticket. :msn-wink:

[N4CR]

When I rang citizens advice, they didnt know much if all about 'advice' with traffic incidents (my 1.3k ticket and all). They did not have links to free lawyers but they DID say they can help you write letters in (in terms of construction etc). I don't know if they will be very helpful. Best ring the po-po.

[250learna]

not what the computers say, Ma'am. :Police:
:lol: ohh dats good

[Indoo]

Yeah, whatever you do, don't exercise your right to have evidence tested.
Just spread your cheeks and grin. : :moon:

Maybe if he disputed the speed or that it was him doing the speed that might apply.

Given that most speedos give a significantly higher reading than real speed people generally know when its a fair cop. If they had checked their speedo at the time of being flashed or whatever they probably thought they were going alot faster than what the ticket was for. I remember reading some little article which had figures showing that the discrepency is around 10kmh in quite a few cars. Dunno if that applies to all vehicles though.


Honda then how do they know the speed was not from the car behind you? I've been pulled over after doing a tad over the limit, but with a dickhead in a cage up my butt. When I was asked why I was speeding, I replied I was not, but the car behind me was coming up pretty fast.:

His radar was probably not set to fastest mode, which would mean it would only pick up the vehicle in front. In fastest mode the radar will show the speed of the fastest vehicle in range in a seperate window.

[Skyryder]

The plan is to send a letter in response, again being very formal and polite, not in the manner I've displayed here, asking for them to stop making mistakes and I don't want to pay the bloody ticket because of the treatment I've been given

What do you think?

Whatever your response is do not acknowledge this as a mistake.
Go on the attack. Call it what it is, an insult. Write the reasons you believe this.

If department personal can not construct a simple letter and get your gender correct how can you be certain that they have your correct speed. You could metion this aspect in your letter.

Wahtever you do don't make it personal. Better still go to a solicitor and get them to write it for you. They are trained in this and the police take note of letter heads. Money well spent.

Sow doubt and defend.

Good luck


Skyryder

[Gen]

If all these detail are unimportant as seems to be the case, then why bother with them to start? I was also wondering, when they ask you what job you do, does this directly reflect to value of the fine?

I'm a doctor - 'okay that will be $800'
I'm a student - 'okay that will be $300'

Although, I doubt that being a student would make any difference, might even up the value for them such as in pyrocams case just to be a cunt.

They could not give a flying monkey fuck as to what you're profession is, they just want their money and it's your job to pay it off.Bastards :angry2:

[Syphon_Life]

police have been so lazy lately!

i pulled a wheelie on the r1 at a traffic light today not noticing there
was a cop car in the traffic across the road,

When i was pretty much looking down into his car he looked straight up at me
and didnt even blink about the whole thing!!

what do they get paid for!!

glad he didnt do anything though!!

[SuperDave]

police have been so lazy lately!

i pulled a wheelie on the r1 at a traffic light today not noticing there
was a cop car in the traffic across the road,

When i was pretty much looking down into his car he looked straight up at me
and didnt even blink about the whole thing!!

what do they get paid for!!

glad he didnt do anything though!!

Well consider yourself lucky, look how many of us have been snapped by the cops in the past 2 weeks or so. They can't catch everyone - too bad that I was someone though :(

[Da Bird]

police have been so lazy lately!

i pulled a wheelie on the r1 at a traffic light today not noticing there
was a cop car in the traffic across the road,

When i was pretty much looking down into his car he looked straight up at me
and didnt even blink about the whole thing!!

what do they get paid for!!

glad he didnt do anything though!!

If you want to give me details, I will happily "do something" for you (however, I suspect not).

[Lou Girardin]

His radar was probably not set to fastest mode, which would mean it would only pick up the vehicle in front. In fastest mode the radar will show the speed of the fastest vehicle in range in a seperate window.

He still has to identify which vehicle is the fastest, something that a lot of them don't bother too much about.

[Coyote]

Whatever your response is do not acknowledge this as a mistake.
Go on the attack. Call it what it is, an insult. Write the reasons you believe this.

If department personal can not construct a simple letter and get your gender correct how can you be certain that they have your correct speed. You could metion this aspect in your letter.

Wahtever you do don't make it personal. Better still go to a solicitor and get them to write it for you. They are trained in this and the police take note of letter heads. Money well spent.

Sow doubt and defend.

Good luck


Skyryder
Reckon your onto something there. I'll write up a letter and post it up on here just to get your opinions on it

[crashe]

This wasnt a speed fine but a Seat belt ticket ($150 fine).

I got pulled over by a cop in a real bad mood.
Charged me for not wearing a seatbelt in my car. (I was in fact wearing it)
I wrote a letter to wellington, as there was so many things written wrong on the original ticket (helped by my neighbour whose a cop) - name, home addy, time of offence, what traffic was like at the time and plus what the weather was like on the day, and they told me "see you in court"
But they also sent back another letter with a totally different charge on it.
Now that was WTF.

Got to court (yep I fought the case) and the JP called my name and started to read out the 'second letter charges' I said "thats not what my ticket is for".
They said "Well thats what we have in front of us...."
I then said " I am NOT GUITLY to my ticket and what ever other charges you want to lay on me".
They wanted me back in one months time.

I went back... and the cop threw the charge out...

So I had ended up with two different types of tickets that were both so different to each other.

So if that gives you an idea of what can happen with some cops who don't pay attention, when writing out tickets.

I still to this day have no idea why they totally changed the charge.

But I walked away from that courthouse with no fine and no court costs.
That was 2 days of my time wasted as well as wasting court time....

All I could suggest is write another letter back to Wellington and send copies of all letters written back and forward to the new Minister of Police (freepost)
Time they found out what some cops are doing....

Most cops are good, but its one or two that ruin it for the others.

[KLOWN]

I've written many letters to the police to try and get off tickets and I haven't had any luck. They don't even reply to the points I have brought up in the letter they just tell me to pay. It could be due to the fact I have lost my license twice through demerit points but i think they just don't care and there's not much u can do about it. Slightly off topic but does anyone else find police let u off more serious offences and pin u to the wall for doing 60 in a 50? For a short while I had police following me around everywhere and keep pulling me over for no reason. I had one cop almost cause a three car pile up to pull a u-turn to give me a ticket for not indicating my lane change for three whole seconds!

[marty]

so you're what, 20 years old, have lost your licence twice already through demerits (that's at least 6 tickets), and you're surprised the cops in a small town don't enjoy baiting you?

[Psalm42]

Now I know Im gona get shit from someone for asking such a dumb question, yet I will ask it any how.

In the letter they sent you, it says "The Police only have to prove the motorist drove a vehicle on a road"

What proof have they provided?

And dont tell me the cop saw him there, cause that cop cant tell the difference between a bike and a car, so what other proof is there?

[Lou Girardin]

Now I know Im gona get shit from someone for asking such a dumb question, yet I will ask it any how.

In the letter they sent you, it says "The Police only have to prove the motorist drove a vehicle on a road"

What proof have they provided?

And dont tell me the cop saw him there, cause that cop cant tell the difference between a bike and a car, so what other proof is there?

The proof that he was on a road is that the cop saw him and can identify him in court.

[geoffm]

His radar was probably not set to fastest mode, which would mean it would only pick up the vehicle in front. In fastest mode the radar will show the speed of the fastest vehicle in range in a seperate window.

Ahh, no. If the vehicle behind has a sufficiently strong radar signature, then as far as the radar is concerned, the bike isn't there at all. It has picked up the signal from the vehicle behind, but hasn't got one from the vehicle in front.
Geoff

[Lou Girardin]

Ahh, no. If the vehicle behind has a sufficiently strong radar signature, then as far as the radar is concerned, the bike isn't there at all. It has picked up the signal from the vehicle behind, but hasn't got one from the vehicle in front.
Geoff

Stalker can track two signals.

[spudchucka]

Stalker can track two signals.
Thats the fastest mode that was mentioned a few posts back.

[raster]

Keep us posted on how you get in, Accuracy does play a part.

[avgas]

Hey man i know exactly how you feel, had the same problem when i was 17 going into Kati College.
I was doing the traffic speed, cop singled me out and did me for 124 (100 lim), no warning etc.
So i complained nicely that i was doing traffic limit and that myself and traffic had just finishing passing a slow car etc....the whole story.
Got the same photocopied letter back.
Geez man for $170 i expect a damn signature ;)

[geoffm]

Stalker can track two signals.

The point is that the radar set only recieves one return signal. The return from the bike in front is to weak and / or overpowered by the stronger return of the target behind. I suspect the Ka band guns are far less prone to this error, as they use a lower power, the higher frequency has a shorter range anyway, and the electronics have improved.
The courts convenieintly ignore the laws of physics. In fact, in Australia, to avoid the aggrivation of proving an offence, radar is legislated as being infallable!
Saying th ereading is wrong because it is incorrectly used or calibrated doesn't work even if it is true.
Foro more info:
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-btrust.html
http://copradar.com/preview/content2.html
test data:
http://copradar.com/preview/chapt5/rdre.html
Mike valentine puts his 2c in
http://www.valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt7.asp

And a more technical document from the US National Institute of Standards and Technology - courtesy of the US taxpayer.
http://www.eeel.nist.gov/oles/Publications/DOT%20HS-805%20254_Police_Traffic_Radar.pdf

Geoff

[Lou Girardin]

The point is that the radar set only recieves one return signal. The return from the bike in front is to weak and / or overpowered by the stronger return of the target behind. I suspect the Ka band guns are far less prone to this error, as they use a lower power, the higher frequency has a shorter range anyway, and the electronics have improved.
The courts convenieintly ignore the laws of physics. In fact, in Australia, to avoid the aggrivation of proving an offence, radar is legislated as being infallable!
Saying th ereading is wrong because it is incorrectly used or calibrated doesn't work even if it is true.
Foro more info:
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-btrust.html
http://copradar.com/preview/content2.html
test data:
http://copradar.com/preview/chapt5/rdre.html
Mike valentine puts his 2c in
http://www.valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt7.asp

And a more technical document from the US National Institute of Standards and Technology - courtesy of the US taxpayer.
http://www.eeel.nist.gov/oles/Publications/DOT%20HS-805%20254_Police_Traffic_Radar.pdf

Geoff


Sorry geoffm the Stalker processes two return signals, the strongest and the fastest.
The unit is fairly sophisticated for it's price. The problem arises with the operator. here's a scenario;
An MX5 is doing 109 km/h overtaking a Commodore doing 90/km/h. At 400 metres range, Plod sees a fastest reading of 120 km/h and a strongest reading of 90 km/h. What Plod isn't interested in is the Range Rover 200 metres behind these two cars which is actually the vehicle speeding. The MX5 isn't even registering on the read-out because the two larger vehicles are returning stronger signals. He doesn't establish a tracking history because he just hits the trigger on the Stalker as soon as he sees the vehicles and the MX5 gets the prize.

[scumdog]

The MX5 isn't even registering on the read-out because the two larger vehicles are returning stronger signals. He doesn't establish a tracking history because he just hits the trigger on the Stalker as soon as he sees the vehicles and the MX5 gets the prize.

Quite rightly so - anybody that drives a hair-dressers car deserves to get a ticket!!:rofl: :laugh: :nya:

[Lou Girardin]

Quite rightly so - anybody that drives a hair-dressers car deserves to get a ticket!!:rofl: :laugh: :nya:


That charge disappeared when they legalised homosexuality.:buggerd: :nono:

[Pixie]

Quite rightly so - anybody that drives a hair-dressers car deserves to get a ticket!!:rofl: :laugh: :nya:
Some people have a penis and don't need to drive an ill handling substitute for one.