Does speed really kill?

[SixPackBack]

Check it. To long to cut and paste, but an interesting read.


http://www.theage.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html

[one fast tl1ooo]

NO IT IS THE SUDDEN STOP....................:bye:

[2wheeldrifter]

Didn't read it all, got alittle bored and frustrated... sorry :innocent:

[ital916]

Check it. To long to cut and paste, but an interesting read.


http://www.theage.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html

I reckon the ridiculous 80 km/hr limit on auckland motorways is a real hazard as you have people driving all the way from seventy to one twenty, leading to some close calls.

[george formby]

I have always believed that it's bad driving/riding that causes accidents regardless of speed. I would be very afraid if proposals to increase speed limits over here were put forward. The existing limits are hard enough for a lot of motorists to abide by. On a typical 400k run,the traffic I see will be travelling anywhere between 60kmh & 120+kmh, which ever end of the scale these motorists are at they obviously don't give a toss for other road users.
Make it mandatory for all road users to do a licence compliance test every 5 years & if that makes us better & safer road users then, in the future, their may be grounds for some liberty & cheaper motoring.

[R6_kid]

Remove ALL speed limits, except for those around ACTIVE roadworks, schools and urban areas. Also enforce the 'kept left unless passing' rule on all roads with more than one lane in a given direction.

Outside of that, if you have an accident and your driving is found to have involved excessive speed or if have driven in a dangerous manner then get a whopping huge fine - if you can't pay it then you do forced labour at minimum wage until it's paid off (you will also pay for your own food/accomodation). Do it again and you go to jail for 6mths.

Give people the option to act freely, but punish them severely for making decisions which are obviously wrong.

[SPman]

Interesting that the RTA automatically poo poos any evidence that shows areas with no limits had less fatalities. They insist that speed is the killer - implying that people driving over the limits are the problem, then admit that many of the cases where speed is quoted as the cause, happen at speeds below the posted limits!
I've found, over many years and in several countries, that traffic that is allowed to flow unimpeded at it's natural speed for the road and conditions, whatever it may be, well over, or sometimes under the posted limits, seems to flow in a relaxed and far safer manner, than traffic tightly bound by enforced, unrealistic speed limits.
" Driving with complete tunnel vision on speed is so obscenely dangerous it is not funny"
It's more important to keep relative speeds in traffic on a par - example - a recent weekend day in medium heavy traffic on a straight, 4 lane 60kph road, all traffic travelling at the same speed - speed camera ticket for 66 kph! Yep - real dangerous! New 100 km long divided 4 lane, expressways over here being limited to 80 and 100 kph and heavily policed! It's a fucking joke!
The real killers are inattention, tiredness (which leads to inattention), lack of basic driving skills (follow a few vehicles down country roads and watch the way they place their vehicles and approach and drive through corners - it's fucking frightening sometimes - no wonder so many cars spear off the road...) and general attitude - (I am a good safe driver - how dare you approach,drive faster,slower, than me!!!!) People need to leave their egos at home when they get into/onto a vehicle and relax and concentrate on their driving, watching for natural threats, not possible speed traps because you may be cruising 10- 15 kph over the open road limit!

(and for those who smugly say - well - stick to the limit then - fuck off! You've already proved you are sheep, so go back to sleep)

[scumdog]

Remove ALL speed limits, except for those around ACTIVE roadworks, schools and urban areas. Also enforce the 'kept left unless passing' rule on all roads with more than one lane in a given direction.

Outside of that, if you have an accident and your driving is found to have involved excessive speed or if have driven in a dangerous manner then get a whopping huge fine - if you can't pay it then you do forced labour at minimum wage until it's paid off (you will also pay for your own food/accomodation). Do it again and you go to jail for 6mths.

Give people the option to act freely, but punish them severely for making decisions which are obviously wrong.

And remake the people you maimed/killed when you crashed into them...:whistle:

[mossy1200]

Interesting that the RTA automatically poo poos any evidence that shows areas with no limits had less fatalities. They insist that speed is the killer - implying that people driving over the limits are the problem, then admit that many of the cases where speed is quoted as the cause, happen at speeds below the posted limits!
I've found, over many years and in several countries, that traffic that is allowed to flow unimpeded at it's natural speed for the road and conditions, whatever it may be, well over, or sometimes under the posted limits, seems to flow in a relaxed and far safer manner, than traffic tightly bound by enforced, unrealistic speed limits.
" Driving with complete tunnel vision on speed is so obscenely dangerous it is not funny"
It's more important to keep relative speeds in traffic on a par - example - a recent weekend day in medium heavy traffic on a straight, 4 lane 60kph road, all traffic travelling at the same speed - speed camera ticket for 66 kph! Yep - real dangerous! New 100 km long divided 4 lane, expressways over here being limited to 80 and 100 kph and heavily policed! It's a fucking joke!
The real killers are inattention, tiredness (which leads to inattention), lack of basic driving skills (follow a few vehicles down country roads and watch the way they place their vehicles and approach and drive through corners - it's fucking frightening sometimes - no wonder so many cars spear of the road...) and general attitude - (I am a good safe driver - how dare you approach,drive faster,slower, than me!!!!) People need to leave their egos at home when they get into/onto a vehicle and relax and concentrate on their driving, watching for natural threats, not possible speed traps because you may be cruising 10- 15 kph over the open road limit!

(and for those who smugly say - well - stick to the limit then - fuck off! You've already proved you are sheep, so go back to sleep)

Your going to need to take all the cars off boy racers before they kill us though.No speed limit and no self control would be a poor mix.

[SPman]

Your going to need to take all the cars off boy racers before they kill us though.No speed limit and no self control would be a poor mix. Of course - it's bad enough with no self control and speed limits.
Perhaps I should have added "enhanced policing of erratic, careless and dangerous driving" Most mature, non egotistical police know what the traffic is like in their area. Take away the over-emphasis on pinging vehicles going slightly faster than artificially proscribed, often totally unrealistic limits and artificial "numbers of customer contacts" and concentrate on sorting out the real dickheads amongst the driving populace. The local cops normally know who and where they are.

[Chrislost]

I think that people driving 60km/h on the twisties, then seeing a straight think, oh he is tailgating me i better speed up are the main cause of bad decision making while driving...
Them and the people that insist on driving in the right hand lane at 95km/h... IT IS ILLEGAL TO UNDERTAKE, SO IN THEORY THEY ARE BLOCKING THE WHOLE MOTORWAY! there should be a law against it!

[jonbuoy]

Speed doesn't kill bad driving and judgement does. They need to give more advanced training, the current drivers test barely covers basic control of a car/bike. Something like a two year restricted HP limit on cars and bikes when you first pass your test (nothing too extreme like a 45BHP limit on bikes/120BHP limit on cars).
After two years on your basic an advanced practicle/theory driving test with training on a skid pan for slide recovery for cars, Motorway driving/riding techniques observations. It would probably be too much for learners to get in one go.

[LBD]

The same article was on stuff today along with this poll...check these numbers out....but will be like the anti smacking referendum...the govt will igore the public opinions....

Ad Feedback Should we raise the open road speed limit?
No
6600 votes, 26.4%


Yes - to 110kmh
3566 votes, 14.2%


Yes - to 115kmh
440 votes, 1.8%


Yes - to 120kmh
13619 votes, 54.4%


We should actually lower it
808 votes, 3.2%

[YellowDog]

I have always believed that it's bad driving/riding that causes accidents regardless of speed. I would be very afraid if proposals to increase speed limits over here were put forward. The existing limits are hard enough for a lot of motorists to abide by. On a typical 400k run,the traffic I see will be travelling anywhere between 60kmh & 120+kmh, which ever end of the scale these motorists are at they obviously don't give a toss for other road users.
Make it mandatory for all road users to do a licence compliance test every 5 years & if that makes us better & safer road users then, in the future, their may be grounds for some liberty & cheaper motoring.
George mate, you may be the epitome of musical ineptitude BUT you are spot on here.

The relationship between accidents and speed is true to the degree that if you were not moving, you could not crash.

Accidents are caused by poor driving standards (and mistakes) which can be attributed to inappropriate speed for the conditions.

If the bar was raised to a higher level so that bad drivers could not pass, then the roads would be safer. Re-testing and failing those wankers who do not use their indicators before the manouevre etc. etc. would make a major contribution to reducing accidents, ACC liabilities, and road deaths.

[peasea]

The same article was on stuff today along with this poll...check these numbers out....but will be like the anti smacking referendum...the govt will igore the public opinions....

Ad Feedback Should we raise the open road speed limit?
No
6600 votes, 26.4%


Yes - to 110kmh
3566 votes, 14.2%


Yes - to 115kmh
440 votes, 1.8%


Yes - to 120kmh
13619 votes, 54.4%


We should actually lower it
808 votes, 3.2%



Wish I'd seen that poll. 13,619 would have been 13,620.

[Swoop]

Them and the people that insist on driving in the right hand lane at 95km/h... IT IS ILLEGAL TO UNDERTAKE, SO IN THEORY THEY ARE BLOCKING THE WHOLE MOTORWAY! there should be a law against it!
It is NOT illegal to undertake. Go and read the road rules, pertaining to motorways, again.

[Chrislost]

It is NOT illegal to undertake. Go and read the road rules, pertaining to motorways, again.

coppa who pulled me over for undertaking seemed to think it was...

on 2nd thoughts, i didn't get a fine for anything that day, so perhaps you are right...

[candor]

Nutshell. "Speed kills" rather than collisions kill campaigns are why injuries / ACC charges will go up and up and up if the current "road safety" :weird: program does not get gelignited, and all major proponents in and out of Govt identified, isolated and burnt at the stake.
http://roadsense.com.au/

[Hiflyer]

There are some good points made in both the comments here and in the article. The main factors are always going to be the driver's/Rider's skill and the drivers level of common sense :bash: . Obviously if you throw any vehicle at a 35km/h corner at 130 your not going to have much luck. :bash:

There will always be people out there that wont have the skills to travel at the speed limit. Maybe rather than targetting the limits, more should be done to target the driver's ability? :scooter:

Dunno, probably a lot easier said than done but it makes you wonder...

[Toot Toot]

If speed killed there would be a lotta dead pilots.

[scumdog]

If speed killed there would be a lotta dead pilots.


Pilots take lotsa hard drugs???:eek5::crazy:

[ital916]

I went over a hundred and twenty km/hr once and died.

[caseye]

Damn, thats why they're always so wasted looking.There are a large number of pilots who end up dead through a decided "lack" of speed, usually the flying kind.

[Sidewinder]

no living is the biggest killer, if we wern't alive we wouldn't die!

[crazyhorse]

no living is the biggest killer, if we wern't alive we wouldn't die!

Yeah, but we are all born to die......


In Europe the autobarns have open speeds (I think), and I believe this article actually does make sense.

Up the speed limit I say :woohoo:

[bogan]

but but but, you're missing the main downside here, faster speeds is worse fuel economy, is more carbon emmisions, is the end of the world :bye::bye::crybaby:, think of the kittens people, and more importantly, think of the sea kittens:blink:

damn, now where did i put my tin foil hat

[crazyhorse]

but but but, you're missing the main downside here, faster speeds is worse fuel economy, is more carbon emmisions, is the end of the world :bye::bye::crybaby:, think of the kittens people, and more importantly, think of the sea kittens:blink:

damn, now where did i put my tin foil hat

Well, it seems to be getting colder every winter - and the winters are getting longer - FFS its nearly Christmas and its COLD!!!! We've had more snow than in past years, and I live in HB! Whats this crap about global warming..... must be in some other country - not here.

Would be less frustrated peeps out there if the limit was raised - and in the right places too :yes:

[scumdog]

Yeah, but we are all born to die......


In Europe the autobarns have open speeds (I think), and I believe this article actually does make sense.

Up the speed limit I say :woohoo:

Autobarn?
Is that where cars are kept during the winter??:shutup:

[scumdog]

Yeah, but we are all born to die......


In Europe the autobarns have open speeds (I think), and I believe this article actually does make sense.

Up the speed limit I say :woohoo:

Pffft!

Like we have THEM in EnZed....

[beyond]

Sixpackback.... my sentiments exactly. It's tiredeness, inattention, fatigue and boredom that causes most the onroad stuff ups. If you are going quicker you are more alert, concentrate more and react a lot quicker.

I like the idea of say 130kmh on the open road. Then we won't need to get tickets for travelling at more normal speeds for modern machines. :)

[Ixion]

Sixpackback.... my sentiments exactly. It's tiredeness, inattention, fatigue and boredom that causes most the onroad stuff ups. If you are going quicker you are more alert, concentrate more and react a lot quicker.

I like the idea of say 130kmh on the open road. Then we won't need to get tickets for travelling at more normal speeds for modern machines. :)

Until you get tired and fatigued. Which will happen faster at high speeds.

[Sidewinder]

Until you get tired and fatigued. Which will happen faster at high speeds.

nope you wont because you will get to the end of ya trip faster which means you get to rest earlyer!!

[scumdog]

Until you get tired and fatigued. Which will happen faster at high speeds.

Just ask a track rider:yes:

[Sidewinder]

Just ask a track rider:yes:

nah get more sleepie riding slow on the track

[breakaway]

coppa who pulled me over for undertaking seemed to think it was...

on 2nd thoughts, i didn't get a fine for anything that day, so perhaps you are right...

So just because the copper thinks its fineable means its fineable? Thats not the right kidn of attitude to have :sunny:

[Cheshire Cat]

Autobarn?
Is that where cars are kept during the winter??:shutup:

PFFFFFT!! :rofl:

[Smokin Joe]

Sixpackback.... my sentiments exactly. It's tiredeness, inattention, fatigue and boredom that causes most the onroad stuff ups. If you are going quicker you are more alert, concentrate more and react a lot quicker.

I like the idea of say 130kmh on the open road. Then we won't need to get tickets for travelling at more normal speeds for modern machines. :)

I'm with you Beyond. I've been a speedster all my 40 years of having a driving license. The only time I had a near accident was reasonably recently when doing 100kph and nodding off. I have always prided myself on my driving/riding vehicle placement etc and I have the driving history to support it. I think passing lanes should have a limit of 140kph.

Last month I got a ticket for towing a unloaded, single axle trailer, everything fully legal and travelling the same speed as the traffic. My speed was recorded at 101kph. The speed limit with a trailer is 90kph. $80 and 20 demerits. So lets inconvenience every other road user and make them have to over take my vehicle. No wonder there are so many inexplicable head on accidents.

Ridiculous laws like this are certainly contributing to the road carnage.

[Ixion]

What really bunches my panties about speed limits nowadays is they are insatntaneous.

Back in the day the snake had to follow you for 2/10 of a mile , you had to be over the limit all that time, and the speed you got pinged for was the lowest in that time

Which meant that a quick blip over the limit to pass some mugwump, or inadvertently rolling over the limit on a downhill wouldn't get you in trouble.

Now , it's a momentary speed on a radar , and a ticket regardless of the overall situation .

[gatch]

Ive had this very same arguement with alot of people. For some its a simple concept, others it may as well be quantum physics..

Granted, speed will make any "incident" worse, but it is not speed that causes crashes, people making shit decisions on the road, having no concept of "spacial awareness" and generally being uncaring about the motorists around you causes crashes..

Except of course for that 1 time I might have gone over 100kmh at manfield, I exploded into a ball of flame and died.

Thank god I pay may acc levies :innocent:

[The Stranger]

Does speed really kill?

Well sure the sudden stop can hurt, but it would appear from the results of the most thorough motorcycle crash investigation since the Hurt report that speed isn't really a huge factor in causing crashes. Surprise, surprise.

"The authors note that the typical accident speed was modest. In 70 percent of the crashes, the rider hit the car or other object at under 30 mph. Of course, the severity of injuries went up with crash speed. However, speed by itself didn't turn out to be a huge factor in crash causation. The report says: "There were relatively few cases in which excess speed was an issue related to accident causation," but notes that a speed differential--going either faster or slower than nearby traffic--was a contributing factor in 18 percent of the crashes."

[jono035]

There was a comment on that article that comparing a rural road in Australia to the German Autobahn is kinda silly. I agree with it in principal, but on a rural road you are much more likely to come across hazards on the road that can be much worse at speed. In my time driving around in northland I've hit hundreds of possums and barely avoided pigs, horses, quite a few cows, dogs etc. A friend ended up barely holding it together after hitting a dog that ran out in front of him at well over the speed limit and I've had a few hairy moments with possums going under the tires at a variety of license-losing speeds...

I agree that higher speed limits (or at least losing the ridiculous focus on speeding being the root of all evil) would be a good thing though but ultimately the more important factors are driver skill, maturity and responsibility.

[Swoop]

There will always be people out there that wont have the skills to travel at the speed limit. Maybe rather than targetting the limits, more should be done to target the driver's ability?
Simply "raising the speed limit" would come with its own amount of issues. First and foremost is the appalling state of kiwi drivers who have been trained to pass a driving test and that is the extent of their skill set.
Second is the mentality of "speed kills" and the bullshit rhetoric spouted out by our bureaucrats in an attempt to be seen "doing something about it".

Red-light running is rampant throughout the country and what can be done about it? An advertising campaign with a "spin the wheel - take a chance" is about all.

It ALL comes down to the driver/rider and their skills. Speed becomes a much smaller issue in comparison

[st00ji]

s'like anything eh. education not legislation!

these new speeding ads really piss me off. 'at 50kms, this is where he would have stopped. at 60km... " /cue big skid and smash into powerpole.

guess what muppets, i actually watch what is happening around me when im driving and i spotted that moron getting out of his car without looking before it got to the swerving stage.

[EJK]

Autobahn in NZ? :sunny:

[Mikkel]

Pilots take lotsa hard drugs???:eek5::crazy:

It has happened on occasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Performance-enhancing_use).


So just because the copper thinks its fineable means its fineable? Thats not the right kidn of attitude to have :sunny:

Well, considering the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude supplemented with no real requirement in regards to an actual burden of evidence which goes hand in hand with the most common traffic infringement - i.e. speeding - it's not really a wonder that such an attitude might evolve over time.

Add then the, alleged, company policy of not being allowed to exercise discretion.

[SPman]

Well, considering the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude supplemented with no real requirement in regards to an actual burden of evidence


..which is now spilling over into general law making..........

[scumdog]

Add then the, alleged, company policy of not being allowed to exercise discretion.

Not here, I use discretion any time I feel like it.

Who's gonna know otherwise?

[ntst8]

Except of course for that 1 time I might have gone over 100kmh at manfield, I exploded into a ball of flame and died.

We were discussing this very fact at the weekend, raise the speed limit and everyone who makes the most of their new found freedom will instantly die at 106km/hr and then ACC's problems will all be gone.
Of course i only ever get up to 105km/hr eventually so i will live forever.:yes:

[Fluffy Cat]

Speed Kills... Do not read this I am dead...he he.
Early 90's my old ZX10 maxed out autobahn and I am dead, obviously because i was going at speed. I think last year was the lowest toll on the autobahn. Then again the roads are good but so are the drivers on the whole. I get the feeling that speed is a factor in many NZ crashes but it seems that the process is caused/started by poor judgement. Our open road limit does seem to be low.

[scumdog]

. Our open road limit does seem to be low.

Sure it does - to YOU. (And quite a few others)

But you have to remember you are sharing those roads with people who are out of their depth at 100kph let alone any faster.

[Fluffy Cat]

Bah you is right scumdog.... but that means we have to lower it. :crybaby:

[Dean]

When I topped my mighty yamma out it didnt feel to bad in the sense of maneouverability, felt like I had reasonable controll. If anything were to pop up sure I couldnt break in time but swerve or change path.

[Dave Lobster]

But you have to remember you are sharing those roads with people who are out of their depth at 100kph let alone any faster.

Handily, we have a capable police force to get these people off the road.

If someone isn't capable of driving at a mere 100km/h (or 62mph, if they're scared of big numbers), they should not be on the road at all. It isn't fast.

Why should we put up with the incompetant drivers? They're a menace.

[SPman]

Bah you is right scumdog.... but that means we have to lower it. :crybaby:
Why? If they aren't capable at speeds at least up to the legal limit, they shouldn't be on the road. Get a bus!
Why continually dumb down the requirements for everything in life, including driving. Set a standard and, if you can't reach it, you don't get a license!
Fuckem!

[avgas]

The faster you go - the dumber the mess.
Fact of the matter is that vehicles on the road are like washing machines.
Some go fast, some go slow.
Some are expensive, some are not.
However a stupid washing machines will always piss you off, will always break stuff, and will always have someone say "Oh it not the machines fault".
The fast stupid washing machines will do all of the above quicker, with a bigger mess and more broken parts.

So no speed doesn't kill - but it certainly helps the stupid (and non-stupid) die easier. FACT

[centaurus]

We live in the age of political correctness. In the 1300's AD (for example) if you spoke against god you were labelled as herretic and killed.

Things haven't changed much since middle ages on this subject. Religion was the 1300's political correctness, nowadays it's "speed kills", "we need to be green and because of that cars are the devil" and a few others...

It didn't help Copernicus and others before him that they were right. He was against the "politicaly correct" opinion of his age that Earth was at the center of the Universe.

The fact of the matter is that speed by itself has little to do with death and in some cases a higher speed can even prevent a crash. But because it's politically incorrect so say something like this, all governments will laugh at your arguments, call them circumstantial and based on incomplete data and will keep going on their "speed kills" track, no matter what you say.

[scumdog]

Why? If they aren't capable at speeds at least up to the legal limit, they shouldn't be on the road. Get a bus!
Why continually dumb down the requirements for everything in life, including driving. Set a standard and, if you can't reach it, you don't get a license!
Fuckem!

They, the ones you talk about are the 'AVERAGE' person, the ones speed restrictions are aimed at.
AND about 1/2 of those you share the roads with ain't even up to 'average' - unlike yourself who is obviously above average in the riding stakes..:whistle:

[peasea]

Speed might not kill you but it plays havoc with your nasal passages.

[Maha]

Speed might not kill you but it plays havoc with your nasal passages.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh see now I always thought speed was a suppository..:confused:

[peasea]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh see now I always thought speed was a suppository..:confused:

Only if the cops are making suppositions.:Police:

[Patrick]

NO IT IS THE SUDDEN STOP....................:bye:

So it should be...

"The faster you go, the more severe is the sudden stop...." ????

[Patrick]

If speed killed there would be a lotta dead pilots.

Not too many walk away from their bins....

But I'm sure they all say "it wasn't the speed I was doing that killed me..." (If they were alive, that is.... HUH....???)

[SPman]

Not too many walk away from their bins....

But I'm sure they all say "it wasn't the speed I was doing that killed me..." (If they were alive, that is.... HUH....???)
...it was the fact that I crashed due to a fuck up....!

[Patrick]

...it was the fact that I crashed due to a fuck up....!

Kinda like most speeders then...?

[crazyhorse]

NO IT IS THE SUDDEN STOP....................:bye:

What he said :rofl:

[Scuba_Steve]

If Speed Killed Hammond Would Be Dead.
The Faster You Go, The Quicker You Get There!

[jono035]

If Speed Killed Hammond Would Be Dead.
The Faster You Go, The Quicker You Get There!

(Devil's Advocate here) It's not the speed that kills you, its how and how quickly you go from that speed to stopped that does it. He managed to fuck himself over pretty severely without ever actually hitting anything, which should indicate that, in his case at least, simply being at that speed was inherently dangerous.

Of course, none of that means that speed restrictions make any sense. A 100km/hr limit being imposed on narrow, winding, potholed country roads by definition means that a wide laned, well surfaced, straight section of motorway could be driven on faster with the same degree of safety.

[centaurus]

In the 70s and 80s (and 90s in some countries :D ) 60kph was considered a safe speed through towns and if you were driving faster than that you were considered a maniac.

Suddenly, world changed and now everything above 50kph is going to kill you. In another 20 years or so anything above 40kph will kill you.

The same will be with the open road speed limits. Just wait until the nanny state becomes a reality (we've had just a taste of it. Wait until they become as fascist as in UK).

[jono035]

In the 70s and 80s (and 90s in some countries :D ) 60kph was considered a safe speed through towns and if you were driving faster than that you were considered a maniac.

Suddenly, world changed and now everything above 50kph is going to kill you. In another 20 years or so anything above 40kph will kill you.

The same will be with the open road speed limits. Just wait until the nanny state becomes a reality (we've had just a taste of it. Wait until they become as fascist as in UK).

Yeah, and don't think that voting National in has gotten rid of the nanny-state direction. They're still plenty happy to tell you what you can and can't do and are just as happy to pass useless legislation just for the sake of being able to say they are doing something.

[centaurus]

Yeah, and don't think that voting National in has gotten rid of the nanny-state direction. They're still plenty happy to tell you what you can and can't do and are just as happy to pass useless legislation just for the sake of being able to say they are doing something.

You're right. Who thinks the nanny state was/is the Labour's invention better think again. It's an international trend and more and more first world countries adhere to this crap. Soon we will need to travel to the third world countries if we even want to fart with a faster speed than the legal one.

[Viscount Montgomery]

Fuck this, motorbikes are just trouble, I'm sellin' up, motorbike, helmet, gloves, leather jacket. All up for sale. I'm going down town this afternoon and joining the Automobile Association for a whole new sensible start.

I've made the decision, bloody motorbikes were always an over-rated mode of transport anyway. Cars are where it's at these days. Motorbikes have had it.

From now on any two-wheeled bastard gets in the way of my Nissan Patrol, they'll be skittled like they deserve. Cages rule...

[The Pastor]

Fuck this, motorbikes are just trouble, I'm sellin' up, motorbike, helmet, gloves, leather jacket. All up for sale. I'm going down town this afternoon and joining the Automobile Association for a whole new sensible start.

I've made the decision, bloody motorbikes were always an over-rated mode of transport anyway. Cars are where it's at these days. Motorbikes have had it.

From now on any two-wheeled bastard gets in the way of my Nissan Patrol, they'll be skittled like they deserve. Cages rule...
about time somone on here understands what kb is all about.

-talking shit!

[The Pastor]

onto topic,

speed is the scalar magnitude of a velocity vector, by definition.

So how can a scalar object (no direction) kill someone one?

It cant, the full responsibility on any injury or accident is not on speed but on the human controlling the car.

Crashes are NOT single factor events, they are random multifactor events.

The statement speed kills is annoying because anyone who isn't a layman can easily see speed dosent kill. You cant honestly tell me that if you increase your speed from 100 to 110 to 120 to 130 that you are at more risk of crashing. That may be the case if accidents were a single factor event. They are not, you speed you increase your breaking distance (factoring in your reaction times etc).

Is speed to blame for the guy who drives his car at 120 has a tire blow and goes into a ditch?

You can tell me that IF i did have a crash at higher speed there would be more damage done and less chance of survivability.

Who decides the speed limit of 100km/hr? Roading engineers? Councilors? Government? After a massive study on speed? No, the voting public decided on the 100km/hr limit. The rest of them have the power to set it at what ever they want but the original limit of 100 (up from 80) was set by you and I (well our (grand?)parents probably).

Speed is not the largest killer in NZ. It is our ABYSMAL lack of the most basic driving skills, our horrible road conditions (mainly influenced by our geography and lack of money) and our poor vehicle fleet condition.

The solution? money. Its quite simple. Spend money on driver TRAINING. in NZ you don't get any. Not one bit. You get a test. How many drivers know why breaking on a curve is a bad idea? How many know the give way rules? How many know how to scan the road for hazards? How many know what effect rain, gravel, oil, ice will have on there car? How many know what to do? How many have actually practiced any of it?

Not enough.

Pilots, train, bus, taxi drivers all go through some form of training, at different levels. Why? Because of 2 main reasons,

1. What they do is technically complicated and not a natural instinct.
2. Their actions can save or lose hundreds of peoples lives.

The same applies to every single road user today. Everyone on here knows someone who has died in a vehicle accident - I know several. I know people who have taken the life of others on the road. I know a guy who is now mentally retarded directly because of the drivers inability to drive.

Spend money on roads - everyone knows our roads are shit. Just ask III if you dont.

Spend money on the vehicle fleet - so many unsafe, yet wof qualified cars on the road its not funny.

BUT even if we had the best drivers and the best roads in the best cars we will still have accidents. But speed wont ever be the sole cause.