Protest Ride-Cautionary Note

[Wasp27]

November 17th-ACC Levy Protest Ride to Parliament
I am writing this note knowing full well it'll probably get me Red Blinged off the planet.... Firstly let me say I do not wish to appear an ogre but feel someone has to issue a cautionary note with regard 'Group Riding" in particular this up coming Protest Ride. It concerns me greatly to hear of excitement and gleeful anticipation expressed by some riders who intend to take this trip. Some I've overheard actually think there will somehow be safety in numbers....... NOT!!!!!!

THIS RIDE WILL BE NO PICNIC RUN FOR NEWBIES
especially those that have not ridden in groups of 20 or more bikes. The projected number of bikes expected to converge on Wellington could exceed SIX THOUSAND (6000) which in my estimation will extend at least 20 kilometres from start to end.... but could if stopping and starting becomes eratic easily extend out to 25-30 kilometres. IMHO it needs serious reconsideration with regard the present plan of having 2 potentially huge groups joining as one at the Ngauranga interchange.
The concentration required when riding in close proximity to experienced riders is Massive and very Tiring..... Imagine if you can, what it will be like to be amongst thousands..... with many on their first group ride.
I personally have been on many large group rides and can recall close calls on many..... and that was riding with so called good experienced riders. I do not want to see anyone injured or worse..... but unfortunately the reality is if someone goes down surrounded by bikes the consequences could be catastrophic. If you think riding a 350kg Cruiser makes you invincible then consider how you'll fare if someone ahead of you riding a scooter suddenly goes down. For those less experienced riders still determined to participate..... no matter what, I can only offer the following advice;
Watch the bike in front of you... pay attention to their Brake Light.practice will allow you the ability to keep the Brake Light of the Bike immediately in front of you in your peripheral vision and still be able to glance ahead to anticipate. There is no need to look any further ahead than say 4 bikes. Stay focused in your zone only. Do not have any more than an occasional quick glance in your mirrors. You don't need to know where they are.... as much as they need to know where you (the bikes in front of them) are. I guarantee you... If every rider follows these simple rules there will be NO problems
Maintain a constant gap of at least 4 bike lengths (8 metres) to the bike immediately in front of you with group riders adopting the common 'Staggered' formation, any bikes to the left or right of you should be positioned midway between you and the bike ahead of you.. but they will need to keep a minimum gap between handlebars of 1.5 metres.
Always keep 2 or 3 fingers on the Brake Lever when Group Riding do not apply enough movement to the lever to activate the STOP light. Practice this alongside a shop window where you can see the Tail light working or even in the dark of a closed Garage etc. If you ride with the STOP light on... the following rider will NOT know when you are braking and chances are, they will crash into the back of you.If during your periodical glances ahead you see the bikes ahead are either slowing up or stopping..... its a good idea to warn the following bikes by flashing your STOP lights 3 or 4 times before you need to apply your brakes to slow down. A flashing light will catch their attention quicker than a constant on light.
It is definitely in your best interest for the following riders to know exactly what your intentions are
Occasionally glance further ahead (than the recommended 4 bikes) to anticipate what is happening ahead bikes ahead may at any time suddenly via left or right to avoid an obstacle you cannot yet see.
Do not allow yourself to stare at just one object...YOU WILL CRASH!!! keep averting your gaze..... constantly change the object of your vision within your looking zone. You will have to constantly think about this as you are riding..... particularly when you get tired from all the concentration. This you can also practice.... after a while it will become second nature. So start thinking about it now!
Highly recommend all riders practice this section.... it could save your life!
If for any reason you stop or slow down... immediately Clutch in with your Left hand... DO NOT BRAKE... Raise your Right (Throttle) Hand as high as you can to signal the bikes behind you that you have slowed down (practice this before you go on this ride.... preferably on a no exit street in a quiet location... much safer) Glance in your mirrors to see they have reacted to your signal.
Maintain your heading... DO NOT via left or right Using your foot brake slowly start to bring your bike to a halt ... all the while keeping your right (throttle) hand high in the air.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MOVE YOUR BIKE TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD WHILST STILL SURROUNDED BY PASSING BIKES OR OTHER VEHICLES.Once you have completely stopped (still in gear) release your clutch lever and raise your left hand high in the air as well. Other experienced riders will see your signal and hopefully react by coming to your aid. Note- whilst you are amongst passing bikes or other vehicles you are on your own!
When (and only when) ALL the other vehicles have safely passed you.... should you select neutral... then quickly move your bike off the road all the while looking to the rear to check for any oncoming traffic. Again raise both hands (if you can) as high as you can, to signal any oncoming traffic that you have stopped.
Maintain your position in the group unnecessary passing or lane changing will only upset the smooth flow of the group and likely lead to an accident.
We are all heading to the same venue for the same reason... please show consideration for other riders.
Stopping/Starting techniques; Smooth Acceleration as well as Smooth, Progressive Braking is the key As mentioned previously it is the following Riders responsibility to maintain the distance to the bike immediately in front of them.If you are riding a 200 horsepower Superbike and happen to be following or leading a 20 horsepower (or even less) commuter/scooter machine then you need to be aware of their acceleration rate and indeed their braking distances. You obviously cannot apply full braking and expect the following scooter rider to match your braking performance.
Please be vigilant and extra tolerant in these circumstances
I expect (hope) many first timers will come through this ordeal unscathed simply because more experienced rider/s have yielded and allowed them exra room or indeed shielded them from other dangers. Remember......
IT IS WITH THE COOPERATION OF ALL PARTICIPANTS THAT THIS PROTEST RIDE WILL SUCCEED AND HOPEFULLY FINISH INCIDENT FREE

While we're still on the safety topic the point I'm most strongly advocating is I dont think we should be mixing the inexperienced riders together with the experienced riders at any time during this ride. Let me clarify that statement; By inexperienced I mean all riders not attaining a full Motorcycle Riders Licence AND any Rider not experienced in group riding involving 20 or more bikes.... which if my guess is right will be most of the riders in this campaign. Remember this is my opinion only and is based purely on the safety of all participants, regardless of what you ride and how long they've been riding and is a reaction to the invitation extended by the organizers to all motorcycle riders including scooters.

Consider if you will.... Right from the outset, we keep the 2 groups (Newbies/inexperienced Riders and the experienced Riders) separate.... from our initial Starting points all the way to Parliament or where ever we park up. If we provide a Lead Rider for each group from each area and keep them together as that group for the duration of the ride... that in it self will I'm sure give the newbies more confidence... particularly when we get into the final leg.

Also I dont agree that there should be any merging of 2 or more very large groups as has been proposed to date at Ngauranga interchange.
Once the riders of the various groups become familiar with the other riders in their respective groups... the worst thing we can do is all of a sudden mix them up with riders they are not used to. This will affect the newbies a lot more than it will affect the more experienced amongst us.... and if memory serves me correctly thats when things can go bad... very quickly.
I think that it would be relatively easy to organize at each Final Grouping Placei.e... The Police College for us and the Duck Pond for the Hutt side.... that the final assault on Wellington should be lead by the Slower newbie group with the rest following fairly close (but not too close) behind.
When we get to the Ngauranga interchange the leading Slow Group proceed through and the following experienced group should remain stationary at the lights and let the Slow Group from the Duck Pond pull in behind the first Slow Group (NOT MERGE) this will maintain the smooth flow already (hopefully) established amongst the various groups. This could also be easily prearranged with the Police to control this interchange.
Continued in Part 2

[Wasp27]

November 17th-ACC Levy Protest Ride to Parliament
Continued;
Once the newbie Slow Group from the Duck Pond have all gone through then the remainder (experienced riders) from the Parramata side should follow which will free up the lanes that we have occupied while waiting for all the Slow Groups to go through. Once we have all gone through.... then and only then should the remaining group from the Duck Pond move off from their stationary position at the lights and follow the precession toward Parliament.

The timing of this should ensure that both groups will remain stationary for approx the same time and as such minimize the disruption to the general public.
PROCESSION SPEED. In my opinion there is no way we can expect to maintain a procession speed of anything like 90kph. Having been the lead bike during the WRB ride to Parliament I can tell you the optimum speed is closer to 60kph. This speed will be better suited to the slower groups and go a long way to preventing the Compression/Elastic effect which we all know can hinder that smooth flow.

If we can arrange something like this at an early enough time and publish it throughout... then I believe more newbies will feel comfortable about their safety in joining this ride. The Leaders of each group should remain leading their groups throughout and I'd like to think that the Wellington Group could perhaps provide Lead Marshals to meet at the Final Grouping Points and escort (Lead) the individual Group Leaders and their respective riders all the way in to the venue.

I can still fondly remember the Leadership and Organizing skills of one young Wellington Lady who was largely responsible for the smooth incident free Wire Rope Barrier campaign we took part in sometime ago.... hopefully with everyones cooperation this most worthwhile campaign will be as incident free.

In conclusion... I'd like to repeat my earlier concerns.... the main reason for bringing this Cautionary Note to your attention is simply to point out to riders intending to join this Protest Ride on the 17th that this will be no picnic ride.... if the thought of riding probably at times 5 to 6 bikes wide at speed scares the bejeezes out of you.... then please think about it. If however after reading all this you still want to participate knowing all the facts then fair enough... welcome to the ride.
The last thing I want to hear... particularly after the fact is... "Crikey... we had no idea it was gunna be like this" believe me.... if there's going to be anything like 6000 bikes at times, it'll be scary. I also dont want to see riders deciding to join this ride based largely on ignorance and then decide to pull out when surrounded by hundreds of bikes... if reading this scares you... then thats good.
Remember the eyes of the Media will be on us... Ride Safe.
Consider this Protest Ride as a springboard to future campaigns.... all the more reason to achieve a good result.
p.s. This note is in no way a criticism of the organizers or any individual connected with this campaign... it has been generated purely for the consideration of the participants. thank you for taking the time to read it.
cheers W

[NONONO]

Excellent post
Only bling...
Sticky?????????????????

[James Deuce]

Very good points indeed. One off would be a PR victory for "them".

Back in the day we used to have protest rides if someone forgot to put toilet paper in the now unmissed toilets on top of the 'Takas.

We don't practice so much now.

[Jantar]

I fully agree with most of what you have written here, but I am concerned that you would send all the inexperienced riders away as one group. May I suggest that a better scheme is to match each inexperienced rider with a responsible more experienced rider. This will create a larger group but we can then have the inexperienced riders on the left side of the staggered formation with their more experienced buddy to their right and in front.

The experienced riders will then be able to ensure that a suitable gap is maintained to allow for the unexpected.

[madmal64]

Great post! A lot of thought has gone into this one. Be good to make it a sticky.

[Jantar]

Great post! A lot of thought has gone into this one. Be good to make it a sticky.
Not a sticky yet as it is still a proposal and may not fit in with the planning. If it becomes policy it will be included in the National BIKEOI Final Information thread which is already a sticky.

[sunhuntin]

awesome post!

jantar, your suggestion about pairing a newbie with an oldbie [LOL!] is a good one. i set up like on the WRB ride, with mcduck as the newbie. it went smoothly as. i do think separating the new riders from the more experienced is a good idea.

[Pussy]

Good stuff there, Wasp27!

[Pixie]

I suggest on the long stretches, e.g. Auckland to Wellington,that riders separate themselves by 50 to 100 metres.
Riding close is tiring and pointless.The Bikoi is not a formation riding display .

[martybabe]

Excellent post, thank you for the time and effort you've put in.

Your point about the hand signals is an excellent one, even in our relatively small Taranaki ride, 3-400 bikes, Several people had to stop dead and head for the Kerb due to staling/ overheating/breakdown or panic. You need to be recognised immediately as having an issue and becoming a hazard. It works and it should definitely be adopted.

I anticipate, hitherto reliable bikes will catch many a rider off guard due to the constant stop/ start nature of the ride, older and air cooled bikes in particular, it may be worth considering riding kerb side if your old girl gives you any cause for concern so as to exit stage left quickly and safely.

Well done Wasp27!

Here's to a safe, enjoyable and worthwhile protest, go get 'em guys.

[Quasievil]

Im going but fucked if Im riding there in a big group, aint that dum, will meet up for the protest action down there, thats is it

Imagine the chaos , variable speeds, dickheads but more importantly imagine the crazy delays at Petrol stations and COFFEE stops , screw that:scooter:

[Maha]

Im going but fucked if Im riding there in a big group, aint that dum, will meet up for the protest action down there, thats is it

Imagine the chaos , variable speeds, dickheads but more importantly imagine the crazy delays at Petrol stations and COFFEE stops , screw that:scooter:

All good points Quasi, most (if not all) the smaller towns the ride will be going through has only 1 gas station, Taupo being the exception. Everyone will need to have a fair idea (know how far they can get on a tank or less) as to when and where they will need gas and perhaps nut out a game plan before leaving.

[sunhuntin]

I'm not entirely convinced about the inexperienced riders keeping in one group, I feel that they would be better amongst the main group using more experienced riders as mentors.


the first few group rides i did had bout 50-100 bikes, and i was the newest rider out. would have loved another slower rider to pair up with... being in amongst the more experienced guys scared me half to death.
my biggest problem on those early rides was being overtaken, and then cut off when that rider pulled back in, aiming for the left hand of the lane [i was in the right hand]
if the new riders and those on small bikes are going to be mixed in, there needs to be some rules set and adhered to.
i would like for the slowbies to be in the left hand of the lane, that way, if they do break down, its easier to get off the road without messing the following riders up too much. also means if someone does decide to overtake, they arent gonna get scared to death.


All good points Quasi, most (if not all) the smaller towns the ride will be going through has only 1 gas station, Taupo being the exception. Everyone will need to have a fair idea (know how far they can get on a tank or less) as to when and where they will need gas and perhaps nut out a game plan before leaving.

will the auckland and surrounding riders be passing through wanganui? cos theres tons of servos here, but not all of them are on the main road from the paraparas. theres a bp on that road, and across the bridge is a shell, plus a few others dotted around.

[Ixion]

Also I dont agree that there should be any merging of 2 or more very large groups as has been proposed to date at Ngauranga interchange.
..Placei.e... The Police College for us and the Duck Pond for the Hutt side.... that the final assault on Wellington should be lead by the Slower newbie group with the rest following fairly close (but not too close) behind.
When we get to the Ngauranga interchange the leading Slow Group proceed through and the following experienced group should remain stationary at the lights and let the Slow Group from the Duck Pond pull in behind the first Slow Group (NOT MERGE) this will maintain the smooth flow already (hopefully) established amongst the various groups. This could also be easily prearranged with the Police to control this interchange.

Once the newbie Slow Group from the Duck Pond have all gone through then the remainder (experienced riders) from the Parramata side should follow which will free up the lanes that we have occupied while waiting for all the Slow Groups to go through. Once we have all gone through.... then and only then should the remaining group from the Duck Pond move off from their stationary position at the lights and follow the precession toward Parliament.

The timing of this should ensure that both groups will remain stationary for approx the same time and as such minimize the disruption to the general public.
PROCESSION SPEED. In my opinion there is no way we can expect to maintain a procession speed of anything like 90kph. Having been the lead bike during the WRB ride to Parliament I can tell you the optimum speed is closer to 60kph. This speed will be better suited to the slower groups and go a long way to preventing the Compression/Elastic effect which we all know can hinder that smooth flow.



From the Duckpond/Police College the two groups will be escorted by police - ie a police car (or two) at the front setting the pace (SLOW!) , and polcie behind.

The police will manage the merge of the two groups.

Simple message is

FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS OF POLICE AND MARSHALLS.

[buellbabe]

Im going but fucked if Im riding there in a big group, aint that dum, will meet up for the protest action down there, thats is it

Imagine the chaos , variable speeds, dickheads but more importantly imagine the crazy delays at Petrol stations and COFFEE stops , screw that:scooter:

My thoughts exactly! Thats why I'm not doing my own thing with a couple of mates...one of them is an ex traffic cop LOL.

I plan on meeting up in Welly with the group at the duck pond. Those of you who ARE doing the group 'bikoi' PLEASE keep your wits about ya and be patient. My wish is for us ALL to arrive in one piece, cos afterall thats what the whole thing is all about isn't it?

Oh and I'm sure the organisers are totally onto it and when its closer to the time will post the relevant info about where/what/how we are all gonna merge together ...:yes: As already said earlier in this thread its pretty much covered by the police and the marshals...all we gotta do is pay attention and watch our following distance!

Big thanks to the volunteers who are gonna be directing us all!

[StoneY]

Green bling all the way Waspy

This has been mentioned a number of times and I have recruited Ulysses members (grey bearded and scary scowled all of them) to assist with rider Briefings
Chanceyy has a great ride brief sorted and she had a great run from Palmy to Welly with (admitedly) mostly KBers, BUT a lot of non KB public joined in, and followed the rules

Great post, well done

[Vern]

I am glad to see a positive approach to this post as I myself am not experienced in group riding of any size and we cannot afford any accidents, no matter how minor they are. With what I see as good posts on here you risk getting yourself torn apart from others and that puts you off posting good sensible advice. Vern

[chanceyy]

Green bling all the way Waspy

This has been mentioned a number of times and I have recruited Ulysses members (grey bearded and scary scowled all of them) to assist with rider Briefings
Chanceyy has a great ride brief sorted and she had a great run from Palmy to Welly with (admitedly) mostly KBers, BUT a lot of non KB public joined in, and followed the rules

Great post, well done

thanks Stoney & great post Wasp, :clap:

pretty much everything you stated was in my riders brief, granted it was on a much smaller scale, however the feedback was fantastic fr both experienced, slow & back markers. We had the newbie/slow riders behind the lead rider with TEC seperating the rest of the experienced riders and no one was allowed to pass those TEC .. worked extremely well as the front pace was slow and even slower on the passing lanes to give the cars the opportunity to get past.

the Co ordinators in levin are having a meeting on wed, where we will discuss several contigencies (number dependant) and also the police will be engaged as they will be assisting to getting everyone out on the main road with minimal disruption. It very well maybe that several groups of riders will depart at earlier times ..

[Trudes]

Great post, very wise words. Hopefully the people who NEED to read them will and will take note!!

[James Deuce]

thanks Stoney & great post Wasp, :clap:

pretty much everything you stated was in my riders brief, granted it was on a much smaller scale, however the feedback was fantastic fr both experienced, slow & back markers. We had the newbie/slow riders behind the lead rider with TEC seperating the rest of the experienced riders and no one was allowed to pass those TEC .. worked extremely well as the front pace was slow and even slower on the passing lanes to give the cars the opportunity to get past.


Nice one! That is key to the whole thing working. n00bs at the back doesn't work and I hope the Policepeoples stay around 70km/hr for the Wellington congestion experience, err, protest ride, because the riders at the back will be travelling 20-30km/hr quicker to stay in touch.

[chasio]

If for any reason you stop or slow down... immediately Clutch in with your Left hand... DO NOT BRAKE... Raise your Right (Throttle) Hand as high as you can to signal the bikes behind you that you have slowed down (practice this before you go on this ride.... preferably on a no exit street in a quiet location... much safer) Glance in your mirrors to see they have reacted to your signal.

- snip -

Once you have completely stopped (still in gear) release your clutch lever and raise your left hand high in the air as well.

This is a great thread and I'm reading with interest as I can't make the 17th but am doing the Auckland ride on Saturday, which will be my first bigger ride.

Query: If we do the above as described, wouldn't we stall (and likely drop it) when the left hand comes off the clutch, motor running and in gear, right hand in the air already?

It is possible I am just misunderstanding the point. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Waxxa]

some good points...granted. But how are you going to get thousands of riders to comply with a myriad of rules?

There is one rule to put across when riding in big groups...once on the road in formation , what ever the pace being set by the leader/s...DONT OVERTAKE... UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Just kick back and enjoy the ride.

This protest ride will be the first time in a long time that I have ridden in a large group (hundreds) because of the behaviour of some riders. Riders get unnerved of riders pulling out to overtake and then cut back in on top of another rider.

[Maha]

some good points...granted. But how are you going to get thousands of riders to comply with a myriad of rules?

There is one rule to put across when riding in big groups...once on the road in formation , what ever the pace being set by the leader/s...DONT OVERTAKE... UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Just kick back and enjoy the ride.

This protest ride will be the first time in a long time that I have ridden in a large group (hundreds) because of the behaviour of some riders. Riders get unnerved of riders pulling out to overtake and then cut back in on top of another rider.

This is what I will be stating on Saturday, choose a spot, get comfortable with it and stay there.

[Wasp27]

This is a great thread and I'm reading with interest as I can't make the 17th but am doing the Auckland ride on Saturday, which will be my first bigger ride.

Query: If we do the above as described, wouldn't we stall (and likely drop it) when the left hand comes off the clutch, motor running and in gear, right hand in the air already?

It is possible I am just misunderstanding the point. It wouldn't be the first time.
Hi Chasio, In answer to your query.... If you follow the whole procedure through step by step you will see that prior to releasing the clutch (motor running or not) you have applied your Foot Brake to slow you to an eventual stop. Once you have completed this manoeuvre you should be sitting on your bike with your Right Foot on the Brake Pedal and your Left Hand still holding the Clutch in. Your Left Foot will be on the ground supporting your bike and your remaining Right Hand should still be high in the air.... if your engine is still running and you wish to shut it down ( and I recommend you do) it's a very simple matter of just slowly releasing the clutch while still holding your foot on the brake pedal. This will simply stall the engine and cause not harm what so ever. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU DROP YOUR RAISED RIGHT HAND TO TURN YOUR IGNITION OFF or for that matter to do anything else.If you can quickly and safely reach the ignition switch with your Left hand then by all means do... CAUTION- make absolutely sure you don't accidentally turn the key too far and lock the Steering. Another reason to perform this procedure in the precise manner described is once you have stopped you should remain stationary until all the remaining following bikes/vehicles have passed and there is clear road behind you. Imagine if you will... your bike decides to quit on an incline or going downhill... you adopt the very same procedure and then when you reach the Clutch Out stage (in gear) you will remain stationary ( just like a handbrake) this will then allow you to release the brake pedal and place both feet firmly on the ground and raise that other hand as quick and as high as you can. You would no doubt be surprised to learn that under these very trying conditions its very easy for your foot to slip off the brake pedal and the bike take off from under you and fall over. Either that or in the excitement riders can momentarily lose their balance and have to quickly put their Right foot down to steady a toppling bike and guess what happens then.... If the bike remains locked in gear until the way behind you is clear enough that you can drop your hands..... then by all means put the bike in neutral and make your way to the curb as quickly as you can. Dont forget to keep glancing behind you for any other oncoming vehicles...... they will be on you in a heartbeat if your not careful....
If any of these procedures appear daunting at first glance.. I can assure that with just a little practice you will be amazed at how easy it really is. Ride Safe
Cheers... hope this helps ;-)

[Wasp27]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everybody for their comments and kind words of encouragement. To tell you the truth I'm bloody overwhelmed by it all.... I've never seen so much bling.... maybe KBs not such a bad place to be after all. love and best wishes to everybody... lets make this a memorable campaign... for all the right reasons. Thanks again... cheers W
p.s a little bird told me that Heather (JDs wife is in hospital) our prayers and best wishes for a speedy recovery ;-)

[Pedrostt500]

For those who feel the main ride ie Duck pond and Porirua to parliment may be a bit Scary or beyond them, Just rock in a bit earlier to the scooter meeting point, and join in with the Scooterists, Nobody will think any less of you for doing so.

[Quasi]

Thank You Wasp for this great peice of advise. I know that if we all follow the same procedures, its going to work and make the ride easier for us all. There you were thinking you were going to be dammed for this post, and instead its 100% positive (well deserved) praise. Heres to a great ride for us all on Tuesday that shows the country the extent of our feelings on this misguided plan by ACC.

[sunhuntin]

For those who feel the main ride ie Duck pond and Porirua to parliment may be a bit Scary or beyond them, Just rock in a bit earlier to the scooter meeting point, and join in with the Scooterists, Nobody will think any less of you for doing so.

thats not a bad idea. i would be happy to do that. :sunny:

[chasio]

...hope this helps ;-)

I did remember the footbrake etc but thanks for a very patient explanation! I was wondering how to do it without dropping the whole shebang. I'm hoping I wasn't the only person who needed it spelled out in black and white, but if I was, thanks twicely.

Cheers - Chasio

[AD345]

pretty good points

BUT

they are going to have to be extremely condensed in order to get the message out. There is no way on God's green earth that anyone is going to be able to scream all of that out to a pack of several thousand people in an outdoors situation along a roadside.

The vast majority of people going will not have read this thread. I know that of the 4 bikes from my club going I'm the only one who has even HEARD of Kiwibiker.

I have some suggestions that may help.

1. Bullet point these suggestions ASAP so that KBers who are travelling with non- KBers can give them the highlights in advance.

2. Have multiple people to give out the ride brief at the various staging areas - particularly at the 2 big meeting points on SH 1 and SH2. Much easier to give info to 50 or 100 than 2000.

3. This may cost a bit but some flyers along the lines of those gone out already but with the ride brief on them would be a good idea. They could be given out at the early meeting areas along the various Bikeoi routes and then again on the day itself


No point having a good message if no-one hears it

[sunhuntin]

I did remember the footbrake etc but thanks for a very patient explanation! I was wondering how to do it without dropping the whole shebang. I'm hoping I wasn't the only person who needed it spelled out in black and white, but if I was, thanks twicely.

Cheers - Chasio

dont worry, i couldnt figure it out either. i guess the other option would be to hit the kill switch somehow... same result, without feeling like the bike is gonna lurch forward and to the side.

[chanceyy]

pretty good points

BUT

they are going to have to be extremely condensed in order to get the message out. There is no way on God's green earth that anyone is going to be able to scream all of that out to a pack of several thousand people in an outdoors situation along a roadside.

The vast majority of people going will not have read this thread. I know that of the 4 bikes from my club going I'm the only one who has even HEARD of Kiwibiker.

I have some suggestions that may help.

1. Bullet point these suggestions ASAP so that KBers who are travelling with non- KBers can give them the highlights in advance.

2. Have multiple people to give out the ride brief at the various staging areas - particularly at the 2 big meeting points on SH 1 and SH2. Much easier to give info to 50 or 100 than 2000.

3. This may cost a bit but some flyers along the lines of those gone out already but with the ride brief on them would be a good idea. They could be given out at the early meeting areas along the various Bikeoi routes and then again on the day itself


No point having a good message if no-one hears it

some of the plans re ppl from SH 1 that we have been discussing

as it appears I will be doing riders brief at both Levin & perhaps welly, the message will be the same, also once we have things in order the riders brief will be sent to outside clubs, that I emailed so they can pass the info down the line. This info will be along the same lines that was delivered two weeks ago for the Ulysses rally & was very well recieved, & everyone knew what the plan was & respected it ..We would hope the same will apply for the 17th .. certainly this will be on a much larger scale but if everyone leaves their ego's at home for the day & keeps an eye out for each other & themselves there is no reason why this can not be as successful as two weeks ago

If we get larger numbers turning up to Levin ... then several groups may head south earlier however they will all get the same rider brief .. this will cover expectations, behaviour and the over all plan for the day, covering both the Levin & wellington briefs (for stoney to confirm of course)

There are a number of ppl working rather hard behind the scenes to try & make the day run as smoothly as possible & several different options available to get everyone to the site safely, however its up to each individual to play their part too ..

[CookMySock]

Good words, but I'm puzzled why everyone has to bunch up so much. I think this is asking for trouble, especially for those who have already been riding all day.

Steve

[smoky]

The projected number of bikes expected to converge on Wellington could exceed SIX THOUSAND (6000)

You'll be lucky to see a third of that number - don't think there'll be more than 1000 - 2000 bikes

I think you may be over reacting, But good on ya for putting the wind up everyone and being on the safe sde



....will meet up for the protest action down there, thats is it

Imagine the chaos , variable speeds, dickheads but more importantly imagine the crazy delays at Petrol stations and COFFEE stops , screw that:scooter:

Yep - sounds like the best way to do it

[Ixion]

The 6000 number is what Police Intelligence reckon (yeah, I know, oxymoron).

personally , I'm inclined to be sceptical also. I'd be stoked if we get 6000 , but I'd be happy with half that.

[GOONR]

The 6000 number is what Police Intelligence reckon (yeah, I know, oxymoron)

Any idea how they came up with that number?

[chanceyy]

Good words, but I'm puzzled why everyone has to bunch up so much. I think this is asking for trouble, especially for those who have already been riding all day.

Steve

who said they had to "bunch up "?? did not happen two weeks ago, definitely will not happen on the 17th :blip:

[klingon]

Any idea how they came up with that number?

I betcha they read it on Kiwibiker! :lol:

[CookMySock]

who said they had to "bunch up "?? did not happen two weeks ago, definitely will not happen on the 17th :blip:He did. Six abrest was mentioned at one stage I think. Six bikes abrest at open-road speed limit is absurd - even two is. Bikers should ride staggered and follow what the law says and use the two second rule, unless they feel capable, but hundreds or even dozens of bikes packed tightly for hours and hours at motorway speeds is going against the ethic of the whole thing - we are here to demonstrate we are NOT a problem, not the opposite.

Seriously, ONE bike accident in this event is going to look bad, and 6000 riders in tight packs will get you a lot more than one bike crash.

Think about it. Spread out. Three seconds should do it. Theres no rush.

Steve

[Wasp27]

He did. Six abrest was mentioned at one stage I think. Six bikes abrest at open-road speed limit is absurd - even two is. Bikers should ride staggered and follow what the law says and use the two second rule, unless they feel capable, but hundreds or even dozens of bikes packed tightly for hours and hours at motorway speeds is going against the ethic of the whole thing - we are here to demonstrate we are NOT a problem, not the opposite.

Seriously, ONE bike accident in this event is going to look bad, and 6000 riders in tight packs will get you a lot more than one bike crash.

Think about it. Spread out. Three seconds should do it. Theres no rush.

Steve
No he didn't, I mentioned it in the context of what had been originally proposed by merging 2 very large groups. Given the width of the Wellington Urban Motorway.. it was entirely possible that that scenario would have occurred. THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO HIGHLIGHT BY MENTIONING IT. In my opinion ( already stated loud and clear) there is no way we should be merging 2 or more large groups together at the Ngauranga interchange or anywhere else for that matter... whether its under the control of the Police or not.
WE SHOULD BE KEEPING THE GROUPS SEPARATE... and the riders of each group together for the entire ride.
Its already been mentioned that there probably wont be 6000 bikes turn up. Thats possible... but believe me... it will not make any difference to you or any other participant whether there is 2000....3000 or 6000 bikes. Your immediate surroundings will appear exactly the same and produce exactly the same effects.
It's also a concern to me that people think that the Police are somehow going to control this proposed merger... IT WONT HAPPEN!!! THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN SAFELY CONTROL A MERGE INVOLVING THOSE NUMBERS.
Simply putting Lead Police Cars or bikes ahead of a procession will indeed control the maximum speed at which the lead group moves down the Motorway ....but it will be impossible for them to control each individual riders actions.
There's only one certain way to control a merger of this size..... THAT IS.... DO NOT HAVE ONE. There is no sensible reason to have one... period!
Another point worth mentioning is the 2 second or the three second rule for judging your distance. You cannot rely on this method under these pressure cooker situations... because your reference by which you need to time from is constantly changing. You need to pace out the suggested 8 metres and practice it either by yourself or in small groups before the main event. Ride Safe.
Cheers W

[Wasp27]

I betcha they read it on Kiwibiker! :lol:
Funny you should mention that..... it's probably very close to the truth:innocent:

[Wasp27]

He did. Six abrest was mentioned at one stage I think. Six bikes abrest at open-road speed limit is absurd - even two is. Bikers should ride staggered and follow what the law says and use the two second rule, unless they feel capable, but hundreds or even dozens of bikes packed tightly for hours and hours at motorway speeds is going against the ethic of the whole thing - we are here to demonstrate we are NOT a problem, not the opposite.

Seriously, ONE bike accident in this event is going to look bad, and 6000 riders in tight packs will get you a lot more than one bike crash.

Think about it. Spread out. Three seconds should do it. Theres no rush.

Steve
BTW.... thanks for raising this issue DB... it proves that at least your thinking about... and we can't ask for more than that... well done ;-)
cheers W

[Bald Eagle]

The 6000 number is what Police Intelligence reckon (yeah, I know, oxymoron).

personally , I'm inclined to be sceptical also. I'd be stoked if we get 6000 , but I'd be happy with half that.

I too think 6000 maybe a bit optimistic however the following may give some indication
1. The numbers turning out regionally and a reasonable percentage of those who will travel for the 17th
2. There are currently 300+ who have taken the time to register on the KB spreadsheet ( allowing a multiplier on this )
3. Police probably have some info on how many m/bikes are booked on the various ferry sailing into Wgtn on 16/17
4. The power of positive thought.

[Footless]

Just a thought on speed, I understand restricted licence holders have a speed restriction of 70kph ??? as a condition of their licence these days.
If thats the top speed they have been riding at alone, the group will need to be slower with the close proximity of the other riders.
These guys will be scared shitless, even if they dont want to admit to it.
The experienced will need to look after them and look out for them

[Hopeful Bastard]

Just a thought on speed, I understand restricted licence holders have a speed restriction of 70kph ??? as a condition of their licence these days.
If thats the top speed they have been riding at alone, the group will need to be slower with the close proximity of the other riders.
These guys will be scared shitless, even if they dont want to admit to it.
The experienced will need to look after them and look out for them


i do believe the learners are being sent off earlier?

[chanceyy]

i do believe the learners are being sent off earlier?

thats from Levin to police college, depending on numbers & who turns up early to leave early ... From wellington to stadium its stoney & police who are in control at that point ..

you still planning to ride ?

[Hopeful Bastard]

Planning on it.. Planning very hard on it too. hehe. Got yelled at by mum for riding the bike without insurance or a licence :crazy: Bored me to death with her lecture :thud:

But i could see her point of view. hehe. But nothing is stopping me at this present point of time. (apart from a lack of a certain piece of paper) And the police that go past my house every so often :sweatdrop

[Wasp27]

Just a thought on speed, I understand restricted licence holders have a speed restriction of 70kph ??? as a condition of their licence these days.
If thats the top speed they have been riding at alone, the group will need to be slower with the close proximity of the other riders.
These guys will be scared shitless, even if they dont want to admit to it.
The experienced will need to look after them and look out for them
Hi Footloose... you raise an extremely valid point... WHY ARE WE TAKING THE MOST VULNERABLE AMONGST US OUT OF THEIR COMFORT ZONE????. This is precisely the reason I suggested 60kph in the first place. Surely its not rocket science. I'm hoping that even at this late stage the organizers will reconsider. If the organizers are not prepared to consider the welfare of the slower less experienced riders... then I urge them to revoke their invitation for this group to attend the Protest Ride. I cannot (will not) sit idly by and watch people put at unnecessary risk..... FOR ANY REASON.
Are we not doing exactly what we are accusing Nix Myth of doing?

[GOONR]

Hi Footloose... you raise an extremely valid point... WHY ARE WE TAKING THE MOST VULNERABLE AMONGST US OUT OF THEIR COMFORT ZONE????. This is precisely the reason I suggested 60kph in the first place. Surely its not rocket science. I'm hoping that even at this late stage the organizers will reconsider. If the organizers are not prepared to consider the welfare of the slower less experienced riders... then I urge them to revoke their invitation for this group to attend the Protest Ride. I cannot (will not) sit idly by and watch people put at unnecessary risk..... FOR ANY REASON.
Are we not doing exactly what we are accusing Nix Myth of doing?

Point of view from a new rider, I've been riding for about 4 months....

I'm not doing the Wellington ride, I would love to but it is a ride that is WAY beyond me. I'd be quite comfortable going at open road speeds on roads that I know but not in a group of that size, it would be daunting.

I am under no illusion that the concentration levels required for a ride like that would be huge and even though people say ride your own ride I'm not prepared to take the risk. The peer pressure that people may put on themselves (me included) to keep up could take them out of their comfort zone, they could end up stuffing up for whatever reason. I don't want to be that person.

I am going to do the ride in Auckland, it start's on a motorway that I drive / ride often and I've been assured that the speed will be controlled. If I'm uncomfortable I can peel off at anytime and just head to the end point on my own cutting through the suburb's. I couldn't do that on the ride to Wellington.

If there is even a small amount of doubt in my head about my capability of doing a ride then I won't go. I sincerely hope that bravado doesn't get the better of anyone's judgement when making the call to go on a ride of this size.

My 2c.

[avgas]

I am personally staying away from the chaos that is the bikeoi.
If you all make it there in 1 piece then you have my congratulations. But I personally believe a rolling protest is going to do us more harm than good. Sure for 5km its ok - but your talking about 100's of k's.
I have seen accidents happy during funeral runs.....and I'm too much of a pussy to see one happen here.

Just out of interest tell me this:
Did the Maori get their land back?
Was the anti-smacking bill abolished?

Good luck and sorry I can not attend

[GOONR]

Something else to consider about the speed.

I thought about taking the L plate off the bike for the Auckland run so that if the speed did creep up then I wouldn't be hit by plod for going over 70k. Now that I have thought about it a bit more it's staying on. The reason it is staying on is because I want the other bikes around me to know that I don't have a great deal of experience.

If I have thought about doing that you can be sure that others have too.

[Wasp27]

Something else to consider about the speed.

I thought about taking the L plate off the bike for the Auckland run so that if the speed did creep up then I wouldn't be hit by plod for going over 70k. Now that I have thought about it a bit more it's staying on. The reason it is staying on is because I want the other bikes around me to know that I don't have a great deal of experience.

If I have thought about doing that you can be sure that others have too.

Congratulations GOONR... another reasoned thinker, well done this man ;-)

[sunhuntin]

i have put my hand up to babysit the l platers and other slow riders on the leg between levin and porirua. i am riding a 250, and like them, prefer to be out of the main group if possible. i am intending on a speed of about 60-70k MAX! and have a first aid kit should the worst happen. i would also recommend that, once in the main group, the slower riders keep to the left of the lane, for reasons i have outlined earlier.
i will not encourage l platers to remove those plates... there will be a heavy police presence, and i have heard of insurance being declined due to lack of plate.

[Wasp27]

i have put my hand up to babysit the l platers and other slow riders on the leg between levin and porirua. i am riding a 250, and like them, prefer to be out of the main group if possible. i am intending on a speed of about 60-70k MAX! and have a first aid kit should the worst happen. i would also recommend that, once in the main group, the slower riders keep to the left of the lane, for reasons i have outlined earlier.
i will not encourage l platers to remove those plates... there will be a heavy police presence, and i have heard of insurance being declined due to lack of plate.
Congrats to you as well Charlie... you go girl, Fantastic :-)

[sunhuntin]

cheers. looking forward to seeing you and the rest of the guys from over that way. its been too long. :) wish it wasnt so far to come and visit.

[Pixie]

I'm leaving KKK at 03:00 using SH1 (which will be a change,haven't been on it south of Rangiriri for years).Western access around Taupo.
Probably catch some of the 2 day trippers near Wellington

[Quasi]

Hey - if anyone here wants to be involved but not ride on the bikeoi as not ready for it, we still need marshalls for Wellington - Stadium and Parliament. PM Ms Piggy. She is organising the marshalls. Thanks heaps and see you all on Tuesday

[Kennif]

Speed is not going to be the issue - rear-ending the bike in front will be.
Wellington Ulysses will be briefing all the riders at Papakowhai and Avalon before the final run along the motorway into the city. The messages will be simple:

- 70kph is the speed
- stay in the left lane
- where appropriate ride in a staggered formation
- watch the bike in front.

Remember what happened in Auckland - a whole heap of bikes met and protested. TV3 report focused on the rider who collided with a car immediately afterwards.

[yungatart]

Speed is not going to be the issue - rear-ending the bike in front will be.
Wellington Ulysses will be briefing all the riders at Papakowhai and Avalon before the final run along the motorway into the city. The messages will be simple:

- 70kph is the speed
- stay in the left lane
- where appropriate ride in a staggered formation
- watch the bike in front.

Remember what happened in Auckland - a whole heap of bikes met and protested. TV3 report focused on the rider who collided with a car immediately afterwards.

Left Lane???? We should be in the RIGHT lane.
We chose the left lane for the cheesecutter ride and were constantly cut up by people merging from the on ramps on the left.
If we are in the RIGHT lane we are out of harms way

[chanceyy]

i have put my hand up to babysit the l platers and other slow riders on the leg between levin and porirua. i am riding a 250, and like them, prefer to be out of the main group if possible. i am intending on a speed of about 60-70k MAX! and have a first aid kit should the worst happen. i would also recommend that, once in the main group, the slower riders keep to the left of the lane, for reasons i have outlined earlier.
i will not encourage l platers to remove those plates... there will be a heavy police presence, and i have heard of insurance being declined due to lack of plate.

We have several options here, will fill in the Lead riders & TEC's of the slow & newbie groups

C - I have you down as a TEC of the L platers, speed has already been discussed & will be advised on riders brief


Left Lane???? We should be in the RIGHT lane.
We chose the left lane for the cheesecutter ride and were constantly cut up by people merging from the on ramps on the left.
If we are in the RIGHT lane we are out of harms way

that poses its own set of probs Tart .. right hand lane will force underpassing & I thought the right lane should only be used for passing traffic

we will get cars wanting to merge into an offramp but am thinking with the volume of bikes they will prob park & watch too

[sunhuntin]

We have several options here, will fill in the Lead riders & TEC's of the slow & newbie groups

C - I have you down as a TEC of the L platers, speed has already been discussed & will be advised on riders brief


sweet as. i will be at the bar early so will catch up then to make sure im 110% clear on whats happening.

[chanceyy]

sweet as. i will be at the bar early so will catch up then to make sure im 110% clear on whats happening.

no worries C you will be 200% clear :yes:

[grantnz]

Good stuff. Another point to remember is watch the TEMPERATURE GUAGE on your bike. Yesterday at the Hawkes Bay run, my bike was sitting on 100 to 105 degrees, and that was only a short ride thru town. Normal highway temp is 69 to 71 degrees. If it's a warm / hot day expect a lot of overheated bikes and fried clutches. If you can't find neutral when stopped in 1st gear, snick it into neutral as you roll to a stop.Don't sit for more than 30 seconds with clutch in, while in gear.

[MSTRS]

that poses its own set of probs Tart .. right hand lane will force underpassing & I thought the right lane should only be used for passing traffic

Passing in a lane to the left is not underpassing. Undertaking describes the action whereby someone passes another vehicle on the left, but within the same lane. It's one of the areas that catches lanesplitters...
Otherwise, you are right. But this is not a normal event, and I would think that safety would take precedence over 'law'.



we will get cars wanting to merge into an offramp but am thinking with the volume of bikes they will prob park & watch tooYou reckon? Think again.
A 2km line of bikes didn't stop the arseholes from forcing in at those onramps, causing a lot of trouble. A longer line will make no difference in that regard.
I realise that it's not 'legal' to sit in the 'fast' lane at 70kph, BUT IT'S SAFER.

[AD345]

Passing in a lane to the left is not underpassing. Undertaking describes the action whereby someone passes another vehicle on the left, but within the same lane. It's one of the areas that catches lanesplitters...
Otherwise, you are right. But this is not a normal event, and I would think that safety would take precedence over 'law'.
You reckon? Think again.
A 2km line of bikes didn't stop the arseholes from forcing in at those onramps, causing a lot of trouble. A longer line will make no difference in that regard.
I realise that it's not 'legal' to sit in the 'fast' lane at 70kph, BUT IT'S SAFER.

Agreed

I will NOT be in the left lane on the motorway in any sort of convoy. Therein lies disaster, not just with those vehicles coming on but also those leaving.

PLEASE rethink this

[chanceyy]

Passing in a lane to the left is not underpassing. Undertaking describes the action whereby someone passes another vehicle on the left, but within the same lane. It's one of the areas that catches lanesplitters...
Otherwise, you are right. But this is not a normal event, and I would think that safety would take precedence over 'law'.
You reckon? Think again.
A 2km line of bikes didn't stop the arseholes from forcing in at those onramps, causing a lot of trouble. A longer line will make no difference in that regard.
I realise that it's not 'legal' to sit in the 'fast' lane at 70kph, BUT IT'S SAFER.

ah :yes: John rather a moot point since from the police college the police are in charge so where they tell us to ride is where we will be riding

however (and yes it was a smaller group) 2 weeks ago we certainly had ppl pulling over watching the convoy head past.

Other very large group rides I have been on in welly & cars getting on & off was not that much of an issue ..

[junkmanjoe]

Im gutted i can not join the convoy.
ride safe and bring it home for the riders who cant make it..:doh:

i guess ill watch it on the news...

JMJ

[MSTRS]

ah :yes: John rather a moot point since from the police college the police are in charge so where they tell us to ride is where we will be riding

however (and yes it was a smaller group) 2 weeks ago we certainly had ppl pulling over watching the convoy head past.

Other very large group rides I have been on in welly & cars getting on & off was not that much of an issue ..

I thought Ulysses were 'in charge'?
Whatever, I still stand by what I said. Certainly, some will pull over or otherwise stop to watch, but it only takes a few to cause carnage. And you better believe that those few are out there and they will be causing chaos at those on/off ramps. Being in the right lane is the ONLY way to avoid that trouble.
But if we are told to stay on the left, then that is what we must do. I only hope that no-one is killed etc because of what I see as a stupid decision re this part of traffic management.

[AD345]

ah :yes: John rather a moot point since from the police college the police are in charge so where they tell us to ride is where we will be riding

however (and yes it was a smaller group) 2 weeks ago we certainly had ppl pulling over watching the convoy head past.

Other very large group rides I have been on in welly & cars getting on & off was not that much of an issue ..

Jeez it's hard to keep track of the threads....

I'm OK with the Police controlled part but what about the bit leading up to the college, are we going to be in the left lane there?

[MSTRS]

Jeez it's hard to keep track of the threads....

I'm OK with the Police controlled part but what about the bit leading up to the college, are we going to be in the left lane there?

Very little 2 laned road prior to that. So won't be a problem. It's the Porirua m/way that I am concerned about.

[chanceyy]

Jeez it's hard to keep track of the threads....

I'm OK with the Police controlled part but what about the bit leading up to the college, are we going to be in the left lane there?

yeah when you come through Mana you will need to go straight through the very large roundabout (its 2 lanes all around) need to stay in the left lane after navigating this as the turn off for the police college is approx 1 k away to your left :)

[huff3r]

yeah when you come through Mana you will need to go straight through the very large roundabout (its 2 lanes all around) need to stay in the left lane after navigating this as the turn off for the police college is approx 1 k away to your left :)

Unless you go left at the big one, then right at the small one and you'll be on Paremata Rd already.... but i guess that might get a bit tight for a big convoy... Although there is a servo on the corner, incase anyones running out

[KoroJ]

Riding all the way in the left lane will be far safer than trying to get a very large group across the lanes to exit. That would be interesting!!

The police will be endeavouring to protect the bikes from cars leading to the Aotea Off Ramp. Also the convoy will be split into groups, by the lights from Avalon on SH2 and by design from Papakowhai on SH1. This will create gaps for other vehicles to slot into.

Great care is requested when merging with other traffic at the Ngauranga interchange and exiting the Aotea Off Ramp as these are the two potential problem areas.

If any riders have concerns about riding in the large groups, feel free to ask for Kennif at Papakowhai or myself at Avalon. We will be the last to leave each site and will not mind escorting a special seperate group if needs be.

[chanceyy]

from local knowledge, its best that we stay on the motorway, free turn at the lights, and staying in the left lane, will get us to the destination. with congestion & getting off the main route will just be confusing ..

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I thought Ulysses were 'in charge'?
.

I recon the :Police: have pulled a fast one on us. They have handed this back to us, the bikers. We are bigger fools than we think. What are the :Police: for if it is not to keep us safe out there? We have been hung out to dry. And lets see how this plays out. What will it take to have the traffic :Police: do their job. Traffic safety.

Edit. Sorry rant over. Lets do this well and safely.

[Kennif]

Left Lane???? We should be in the RIGHT lane.
We chose the left lane for the cheesecutter ride and were constantly cut up by people merging from the on ramps on the left.
If we are in the RIGHT lane we are out of harms way

In a normal setting I would agree with you. However the police have said that they will block off the right lane for us. (It is 3 lanes at the Aotea exit). While not minimising the risk at all I do think that staying in the left lane is the safest for us all. Police to our right in the middle lane; some free cages overtaking in the far right lane. That enables us to come off Ngauranga Gorge in the left lane, stay there all the way to Aotea and exit left. Groups from Avalon will stay in the left lane all the way through.

We may still have some cagers forcing their way through because they want to exit at Aotea. That is why we will ride in groups and be ultra ultra cautious.

[paddy]

A well thought out post - I must say, as a relatively new rider I decided that the ride to Wellington would not be safe for me. I think my judgement was vindicated when I did the Auckland protest ride. That was 140 KM of a high level on concentration. I doubt I could sustain that all the way to Wellington (however far that is). The other thing that I noticed on the Auckland ride is that people can't follow directions. There was plenty of lane changing, overtaking within the group, position swapping, and lane splitting...

One comment I would make though is that you comments around stopping were confusing. From what I could read I would end up riding along in first with both of my hands in the air? It just seemed to me that it would be much safer to indicate left and merge out of the flow?

P.

[Kennif]

A well thought out post - I must say, as a relatively new rider I decided that the ride to Wellington would not be safe for me. I think my judgement was vindicated when I did the Auckland protest ride. That was 140 KM of a high level on concentration. I doubt I could sustain that all the way to Wellington (however far that is). The other thing that I noticed on the Auckland ride is that people can't follow directions. There was plenty of lane changing, overtaking within the group, position swapping, and lane splitting...

One comment I would make though is that you comments around stopping were confusing. From what I could read I would end up riding along in first with both of my hands in the air? It just seemed to me that it would be much safer to indicate left and merge out of the flow?

P.

You can make your own way to Welly if you prefer. The important thing is that you come to Parliament. The ride from Papakowhai to the Stadium will be tricky but much much easier than a whole ride in a group from Auckland.

[Kennif]

Agreed

I will NOT be in the left lane on the motorway in any sort of convoy. Therein lies disaster, not just with those vehicles coming on but also those leaving.

PLEASE rethink this

Check your map. For the Avalon groups, there are no left onramps onto the motorway that are not controlled by lights and these will be under police control. For the Papakowhai groups there are some left onramps (Porirua, Tawa) and we will need to be aware of these. This is one reason why we will be sending riders off from Avalon and Papakowhai in groups.

Come on guys ... we're doing our best here!!!

[huff3r]

You can make your own way to Welly if you prefer. The important thing is that you come to Parliament. The ride from Papakowhai to the Stadium will be tricky but much much easier than a whole ride in a group from Auckland.

Or if your nervous you can even make you're own way to the Stadium at any point earlier in the day...

[Gixxer 4 ever]

In a normal setting I would agree with you. However the police have said that they will block off the right lane for us. (It is 3 lanes at the Aotea exit). While not minimising the risk at all I do think that staying in the left lane is the safest for us all. Police to our right in the middle lane; some free cages overtaking in the far right lane. That enables us to come off Ngauranga Gorge in the left lane, stay there all the way to Aotea and exit left. Groups from Avalon will stay in the left lane all the way through.

We may still have some cagers forcing their way through because they want to exit at Aotea. That is why we will ride in groups and be ultra ultra cautious.

I agree with this. This is no ordinary ride.

[Kennif]

or if your nervous you can even make you're own way to the stadium at any point earlier in the day...

+1.............

[retro asian]

A That was 140 KM of a high level on concentration.

P.

I found it took lots of concentration also doing that group ride.
I'm going a different way down to wellington.

You could try leaving an hour ahead of the group going down. But always take things at your own comfort level.

[Wasp27]

A well thought out post - I must say, as a relatively new rider I decided that the ride to Wellington would not be safe for me. I think my judgement was vindicated when I did the Auckland protest ride. That was 140 KM of a high level on concentration. I doubt I could sustain that all the way to Wellington (however far that is). The other thing that I noticed on the Auckland ride is that people can't follow directions. There was plenty of lane changing, overtaking within the group, position swapping, and lane splitting...

One comment I would make though is that you comments around stopping were confusing. From what I could read I would end up riding along in first with both of my hands in the air? It just seemed to me that it would be much safer to indicate left and merge out of the flow?

P.
All I can suggest is you read it again.... only this time slower.... it'll come to you. Please don't think that in this type of ride the option to simply indicate left and merge out of the flow is a safe one... IT IS NOT!!! cheers:msn-wink:

[GOONR]

All I can suggest is you read it again.... only this time slower.... it'll come to you. Please don't think that in this type of ride the option to simply indicate left and merge out of the flow is a safe one... IT IS NOT!!! cheers:msn-wink:

Yeah, I wouldn't like to try that, some of those cars, trucks and what have you's came past quickly. I wouldn't fancy getting in their way, especially if you are having bike issues.

[Wasp27]

Yeah, I wouldn't like to try that, some of those cars, trucks and what have you's came past quickly. I wouldn't fancy getting in their way, especially if you are having bike issues.
Your so right Goonr, it's posts like this that prompted me to start these threads in the first place.... seriously, if there's still riders out there thinking of suicidal stunts like this.... then to all participants I can only repeat my earlier plea;

WE ALL NEED TO BE EXTREMELY OBSERVANT OF THOSE AROUND YOU,

IN PARTICULAR THOSE IMMEDIATELY IN FRONT OF YOU.

BE PREPARED AT ALL TIMES TO TAKE EVASIVE ACTION.

For Gods Sake... RIDE SAFE... CONSIDER THOSE BEHIND AND BESIDE YOU AT ALL TIMES... repeat... repeat... repeat
cheers W

[paddy]

All I can suggest is you read it again.... only this time slower.... it'll come to you. Please don't think that in this type of ride the option to simply indicate left and merge out of the flow is a safe one... IT IS NOT!!! cheers:msn-wink:

I'm not trying to be awkward, and I don't want to take the thread off on an tangent, but I am just trying to understand. It sounds like what you are suggesting is coming to an almost standstill inside the group. Based on my experience in the Auckland ride, I would have thought that would have just resulted in an unsafe situation with lots of bikes riding around you. Whereas to my mind, merging out seems safer.

I'm not trying to be argumentative - and I certainly don't have the knowledge or experience with the topic to be so, but could you explain what is unsafe about merging out and what is safer about what you proposed?

Thanks,
P.

[MSTRS]

I'm not trying to be awkward, and I don't want to take the thread off on an tangent, but I am just trying to understand. It sounds like what you are suggesting is coming to an almost standstill inside the group. Based on my experience in the Auckland ride, I would have thought that would have just resulted in an unsafe situation with lots of bikes riding around you. Whereas to my mind, merging out seems safer.

I'm not trying to be argumentative - and I certainly don't have the knowledge or experience with the topic to be so, but could you explain what is unsafe about merging out and what is safer about what you proposed?

Thanks,
P.

What is this 'merging out'? If you mean taking an off-ramp, there's nothing unsafe about that. But...If the flow of bikes is going straight on, why would you want to exit the group?

[Pixie]

I'm not trying to be awkward, and I don't want to take the thread off on an tangent, but I am just trying to understand. It sounds like what you are suggesting is coming to an almost standstill inside the group. Based on my experience in the Auckland ride, I would have thought that would have just resulted in an unsafe situation with lots of bikes riding around you. Whereas to my mind, merging out seems safer.

I'm not trying to be argumentative - and I certainly don't have the knowledge or experience with the topic to be so, but could you explain what is unsafe about merging out and what is safer about what you proposed?

Thanks,
P.

I've been riding for 33 years,and I couldn't see the point in the stopping instructions either

[wainuiomata]

To hell with parking at the WestPac stadium. The farmers were unified and drove their tractor up Parliament steps! Our protest has to be effective not wishy washy.

I say we should all jam up parliament grounds and the surrounding streets. We want to show we mean business and we won't do this by parking at the stadium and walking to Parliament in a nice orderly fashion like little boys and girls towing the line and obeying the council etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin Anderson

[MSTRS]

Eh, Wrong!! Demos are best as a rising tide. This is just the beginning of the turn.
If you want to do as you say, do it yourself ON ANOTHER DAY. We don't want a part of that.

[Kennif]

To hell with parking at the WestPac stadium. The farmers were unified and drove their tractor up Parliament steps! Our protest has to be effective not wishy washy.

I say we should all jam up parliament grounds and the surrounding streets. We want to show we mean business and we won't do this by parking at the stadium and walking to Parliament in a nice orderly fashion like little boys and girls towing the line and obeying the council etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin Anderson

Hi Kevin
Nice bike!
Yes that is a good plan for another day IMO. The BIKOI is to be a peaceful and - I hope - goodnatured protest. We also need to keep the public - as much as possible - on our side. After all our gripe is with the government and ACC, not with the public.

A good plan would be for all of us who ride their bikes to work, to leave them at home on an agreed day and take a car/van/truck to town. (Even if you have to BORROW one!!) Get in really early and take over the car parks and pay-and-display areas. Perfectly legal but could be very effective in showing just what a positive effect bikes have for our various cities.

[Azi Dahaka]

To hell with parking at the WestPac stadium. The farmers were unified and drove their tractor up Parliament steps! Our protest has to be effective not wishy washy.

I say we should all jam up parliament grounds and the surrounding streets. We want to show we mean business and we won't do this by parking at the stadium and walking to Parliament in a nice orderly fashion like little boys and girls towing the line and obeying the council etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin Anderson

the sad this is this is his first post. it is quite amazing the amount of people who believe violence and non peacful approaches is the best approach. pissing off the public by clogging up the cbd is only going to push them to support the govt in taxing us off the roads but as we can quite clearly see some people just dont think.

[MSTRS]

the sad this is this is his first post. it is quite amazing the amount of people who believe violence and non peacful approaches is the best approach. pissing off the public by clogging up the cbd is only going to push them to support the govt in taxing us off the roads but as we can quite clearly see some people just dont think.

The reality is that some of 'them' will be ringers, sent by the PTB to incite trouble, in the hopes that the whole thing will become a disgrace and discredit us as a group.

[Wasp27]

I've been riding for 33 years,and I couldn't see the point in the stopping instructions either
Ok, I'll try it with you..... if you read that paragraph again slowly you will note hopefully that it starts out by saying...IF FOR ANY REASON YOU STOP OR SLOW DOWN i.e. as in a 'Breakdown' situation you will need to do this.

Listen please... and listen good, We are entering the final 24 hour phase of this campaign and quite frankly if there are still riders out there that are struggling with the concept of Group Riding and the advice given basically to protect you from not only other riders but also yourselves, then may I suggest that because of the limited time available and the steepness of the Learning curve you have before you... that you seriously reconsider becoming involved at this level. In my honest opinion if you still find it difficult to comprehend all this.... spare a thought for those that will unfortunately have to ride behind or beside you and give it a miss. There will no doubt be other much smaller group rides that you can participate in in relative safety. The last thing we want or need is for anybody to be hurt.
Cheers W

[StoneY]

To hell with parking at the WestPac stadium. The farmers were unified and drove their tractor up Parliament steps! Our protest has to be effective not wishy washy.

I say we should all jam up parliament grounds and the surrounding streets. We want to show we mean business and we won't do this by parking at the stadium and walking to Parliament in a nice orderly fashion like little boys and girls towing the line and obeying the council etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin Anderson

Dear Kevin

I too live in Wainuiomata, and have done a LOT of work to ensure all our motorcyclists are going to arrive safely and in one piece to HAVE our collective say to the Government

If you try what you are suggesting here, not only will you end up in a cell, but you will find out how many fellow Wainuiomatians are attending the BIKEOI as peacful and agreeable human beings...(untill you show up that is)

Up to you pal, but I suggest you and your big single post youve made, are truly some National puppet thats logged in here to cause trouble

StoneY

[Azi Dahaka]

The reality is that some of 'them' will be ringers, sent by the PTB to incite trouble, in the hopes that the whole thing will become a disgrace and discredit us as a group.

sorry to be thick but what is PTB

[GOONR]

sorry to be thick but what is PTB

I wondered that as well, my guess is "Powers that be" could be very wrong though.

[MSTRS]

Top o'the class O Goony One

[Gixxer 4 ever]

To hell with parking at the WestPac stadium. Kevin Anderson

This is known as trolling I think. Good rich fishing grounds but you can piss off now. I think the Riot squad will love using your head for practice. :bleh:

[Wasp27]

This is known as trolling I think. Good rich fishing grounds but you can piss off now. I think the Riot squad will love using your head for practice. :bleh:
if its gunna happen.... :bash:and it probably will, I hope I'm close enough to watch... be funny as :jerry:

[paddy]

Ok, I'll try it with you..... if you read that paragraph again slowly you will note hopefully that it starts out by saying...IF FOR ANY REASON YOU STOP OR SLOW DOWN i.e. as in a 'Breakdown' situation you will need to do this.

Listen please... and listen good, We are entering the final 24 hour phase of this campaign and quite frankly if there are still riders out there that are struggling with the concept of Group Riding and the advice given basically to protect you from not only other riders but also yourselves, then may I suggest that because of the limited time available and the steepness of the Learning curve you have before you... that you seriously reconsider becoming involved at this level. In my honest opinion if you still find it difficult to comprehend all this.... spare a thought for those that will unfortunately have to ride behind or beside you and give it a miss. There will no doubt be other much smaller group rides that you can participate in in relative safety. The last thing we want or need is for anybody to be hurt.
Cheers W

Wasp27, your responses are starting to become frustrating. I asked you to clarify to help me, as a new rider, to understand your advice. Instead you are simply attacking people. You have yet to justify anything you have written with any reason. That's your prerogative, and you may well be correct, but it detracts from the advice you have given.

Don't forget that people write whatever they like on the internet. As a new rider I have to sort through that and decide what to take on board and what to ignore. I have to be honest with you, unless you are prepared to start answering some of the "whys" rather than taking the "you are all dangerous" approach, all of your advice is going into my ignore pile. That's disappointing because I'm sure that your experience is valuable to others...

[paddy]

What is this 'merging out'? If you mean taking an off-ramp, there's nothing unsafe about that. But...If the flow of bikes is going straight on, why would you want to exit the group?

I don't know - pick a reason. Illness, flat tyre, bike playing up, cramp.... I'm sure there are plenty of reasons one might need to stop. My main point is that Wasp27 is saying that merging out IS dangerous - I'm just trying to figure out why, and why his proposed approach is safer. I have yet to hear a well reasoned answer from him. At this stage he seems to be in label-anyone-who-disagrees-as-dangerous mode (which really doesn't help me to understand his advice).

[Wasp27]

Wasp27, your responses are starting to become frustrating. I asked you to clarify to help me, as a new rider, to understand your advice. Instead you are simply attacking people. You have yet to justify anything you have written with any reason. That's your prerogative, and you may well be correct, but it detracts from the advice you have given.

Don't forget that people write whatever they like on the internet. As a new rider I have to sort through that and decide what to take on board and what to ignore. I have to be honest with you, unless you are prepared to start answering some of the "whys" rather than taking the "you are all dangerous" approach, all of your advice is going into my ignore pile. That's disappointing because I'm sure that your experience is valuable to others...
Well I did try.....I thought and so did all the others that have filled my box with bling that it was pretty self explanatory... but never mind. I hope you have a pleasant uneventful day and RIDE SAFE... after all, thats the message we're trying to get out there. Cheers W

[GMcC]

Well I did try.....I thought and so did all the others that have filled my box with bling that it was pretty self explanatory... but never mind. I hope you have a pleasant uneventful day and RIDE SAFE... after all, thats the message we're trying to get out there. Cheers W

Big Roger to that TOO !!!!

[DougieNZ]

I recon the :Police: have pulled a fast one on us. They have handed this back to us, the bikers. We are bigger fools than we think. What are the :Police: for if it is not to keep us safe out there? We have been hung out to dry. And lets see how this plays out. What will it take to have the traffic :Police: do their job. Traffic safety.

Edit. Sorry rant over. Lets do this well and safely.

What will "play out" is that the police ambulance support were excellent and that no incidents occurred. I though the police guys with us were brilliant... including getting on the PA and telling ignorant cage drivers to buggar off when they attempted to cut in to the convoy...

[Gixxer 4 ever]

What will "play out" is that the police ambulance support were excellent and that no incidents occurred. I though the police guys with us were brilliant... including getting on the PA and telling ignorant cage drivers to buggar off when they attempted to cut in to the convoy...

Yes you are correct. Big clap for them. I was wrong about this and am ready to front up and say so. Well done to the :Police: and ambo for the work they did on the day.