TL1000 Ohlins rear

[lankyman]

At the moment I am interested in fitting a new rear shock to my 97 TLS, as I am getting a little more confident on her and starting to realize how rubbish the factory rotary unit is :angry:. I would like to get her out on the track at some stage too and would definitely feel safer with some better hardware under my ass. Got a price on an Ohlins unit from CKT for $1900!!! seems a little steep doesn't it? I was wondering if anyone knew of any other Ohlins suppliers that could offer a better price, or are there any other brands of after market units for this machine? Or possibly even where I could get hold of a second hand after market unit off a wreck or something (I hear TL's are written off on a fairly regular basis :bye:). Any help would be muchly appreciated.

[Devil]

The retail on the Ohlins for my BMW is $2400. $1900 seems reasonable...

[Sparky Bills]

That all depends if you want a good quality shock like Ohlins or a space filler...?

Step up and bite the bullet mate. You wont be sorry.

That is not such a bad price when you consider what you are getting. Plus the back up service is simply amazing.

[AllanB]

Remember that's $ for what's recognised as the worlds best shocks ......
plus in NZ you will get 100% back-up and support, and the shock will be set for you before you receive it.

You could try cheaper alternatives, but you'll need to do some research to check user reviews. Hagon for instance - www.hagon-shocks.co.uk I know someone who ran one on a old GSXR and he was happy, but his stock stock was so poked a bag of rubber-bands would have made an improvement. They list for the TL1000R @ 275 pounds plus shipping.

Try the TL owners forum - they will have plenty of shock talk.

[AllanB]

or a space filler...?


Space filler - excellent, and quite possibly true in some cases!

[Damon]

http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/home.php?cat=36440

Ohlins rear for $917.95US comes to about $1250nz, and if your unlucky to get stung with GST on the way through customs it'll only be about another $160nz, so about $500 cheaper than CKT

[Sensei]

The Ohlins unit will only replace your Rotary damper which I guess you may already know ? , so you will still have the your red shock running up the side of your motor , this is still an excellent improvemnet over the Rotary unit but doesn't fix the crappy shock problem unless you change the rear swingarm for a TLR unit which use's a more standard shock unit which does have the damping etc built into it rather than two seperate units . Biturbo do a replacement unit with damping etc in it but are pretty pricey as well & not sure how well they work been such a small unit to fit up along side the motor .

[lankyman]

The Ohlins unit will only replace your Rotary damper which I guess you may already know ? , so you will still have the your red shock running up the side of your motor , this is still an excellent improvemnet over the Rotary unit but doesn't fix the crappy shock problem unless you change the rear swingarm for a TLR unit which use's a more standard shock unit which does have the damping etc built into it rather than two seperate units . Biturbo do a replacement unit with damping etc in it but are pretty pricey as well & not sure how well they work been such a small unit to fit up along side the motor .

Yea cheers man, realise it is only a damper. Yea I looked into getting the whole coil-over unit done but was talking to a couple of guys on US TL forums who said it's only a slight improvement over fitting an after market damper, and that the latter would be suffice for what I am planning to use the bike for (i.e just track days not serious racing)

[Squiggles]

http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/home.php?cat=36440

Ohlins rear for $917.95US comes to about $1250nz, and if your unlucky to get stung with GST on the way through customs it'll only be about another $160nz, so about $500 cheaper than CKT

It'll be more than that and you will get stung... + you have to guess what'll suit you + dont forget any warranty bits etc

I had a ohlins on my 97 TLS, i hung round on tlzone and tlplanet alot and eventually a member put one up for around $300 :gob:, got it and sent it off to CKT before fitting. Best thing i did for that bike :yes:

Alot of the zone guys have Biturbo (sp?) shocks on theirs, gets rid of the soas unit at the same time while the ohlins keeps that part

[lankyman]

It'll be more than that and you will get stung... + you have to guess what'll suit you + dont forget any warranty bits etc

I had a ohlins on my 97 TLS, i hung round on tlzone and tlplanet alot and eventually a member put one up for around $300 :gob:, got it and sent it off to CKT before fitting. Best thing i did for that bike :yes:

Alot of the zone guys have Biturbo (sp?) shocks on theirs, gets rid of the soas unit at the same time while the ohlins keeps that part

Cool...I'm pretty regular on TLzone now days so will keep an eye out

[98tls]

Bitubo also make a spring only version if your going to go Ohlins and want to replace the spring on a stick as well.From time to time group buys are done on TLZONE which keeps the price down somewhat.Cant remember off-hand the price but have a gander through the group buys forum if needed.

[Robert Taylor]

http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/home.php?cat=36440

Ohlins rear for $917.95US comes to about $1250nz, and if your unlucky to get stung with GST on the way through customs it'll only be about another $160nz, so about $500 cheaper than CKT

Is your employment / means of living affected by faceless internet traders offshore? Would you like me to target your trade and say ''buy offshore'' ?

And whats this about being ''stung'' by gst? All commercial operations have to pay clearance charges, gst on those charges and gst on the true value of the goods ( no underwritten invoices ) Why should it be any different for private one off imports? And are these faceless parasites subsidising the advertising we do in NZ to promote the product?
Ohlins suspension units have a 5 year warranty, its quite expensive to send it back to the US if there is an issue.
We stand behind what we sell, we employ New Zealand citizens and we put money back into the local economy.

[Robert Taylor]

Yea cheers man, realise it is only a damper. Yea I looked into getting the whole coil-over unit done but was talking to a couple of guys on US TL forums who said it's only a slight improvement over fitting an after market damper, and that the latter would be suffice for what I am planning to use the bike for (i.e just track days not serious racing)

There are dampers ( space fillers as Martin pointed out ) and then there are dampers that actually work. The cheapies are knocked out with a very rudimentary damping system and they are built cheap and look cheap. A high quality aftermarket shock uses the best materials, has precise tolerancing and low friction. The damping force is individually and exhaustively tested for each individual make and model.
It is only because of the current exchange rate and a purchasing anomoly that currently sourcing out of the US looks attractive. That wont last.
As you are in NP maybe you should call in and see us so we can run through some options and whys and wherefores....

[Robert Taylor]

Bitubo also make a spring only version if your going to go Ohlins and want to replace the spring on a stick as well.From time to time group buys are done on TLZONE which keeps the price down somewhat.Cant remember off-hand the price but have a gander through the group buys forum if needed.

Hey we can offer quantity prices as well!

[98tls]

Hey we can offer quantity prices as well! No doubt mate,thing is you probably dont offer a replacement for the TLs old pogo stick (and why would ya.),plenty on the TL site have replaced damper with Ohlins,Wilber,Hagon etc and used the unit Bitubo make without the inbuilt damper unit to replace the pogo stick when its buggered.

[Robert Taylor]

No doubt mate,thing is you probably dont offer a replacement for the TLs old pogo stick (and why would ya.),plenty on the TL site have replaced damper with Ohlins,Wilber,Hagon etc and used the unit Bitubo make without the inbuilt damper unit to replace the pogo stick when its buggered.

Its good to know that Bitubo make a new ''guide'' for the seperate spring unit, especially as the Suzuki one is an obscene price.

I have in the past deliberated about combining the Ohlins damper with a coil over spring but I need a donor bike ( and time ) to see if there are any clearance issues and to test spring rates. As the motion ratio and leverage imparted to it will be different to the side unit a starting point would have to be established. But likely the spring rate would have to be reasonably stiff due to the direct actuation. That means a somewhat ''fat'' spring and theres not a lot of space without some re-engineering.

[Yankee Doodle Dandy]

A friend of mine had a TLR that had a lot of work done to it. I did a bunch of work, including the suspension.

I installed an Ohlins shock in the rear and Gold Valves and springs in his forks and had the tubes TiN coated at the same time. He said it was well worth the money.

If you are on a budget I would suggest finding a used Ohlins rear on either the TL forum or ebay. I see them popping up all the time. I would then bring it to Mr Taylor to have it serviced and modified if needed.

You can buy the Ohlins from IndySuperbikes in the US for less, but all they are is a re-seller. You are not going to get any serious level of support from them. From what I have read on here about Mr Taylor on this forum it would seem that going above and beyond for his customer is a daily occurrence.

[PeeJay]

Is your employment / means of living affected by faceless internet traders offshore? Would you like me to target your trade and say ''buy offshore'' ?

And whats this about being ''stung'' by gst? All commercial operations have to pay clearance charges, gst on those charges and gst on the true value of the goods ( no underwritten invoices ) Why should it be any different for private one off imports? And are these faceless parasites subsidising the advertising we do in NZ to promote the product?
Ohlins suspension units have a 5 year warranty, its quite expensive to send it back to the US if there is an issue.
We stand behind what we sell, we employ New Zealand citizens and we put money back into the local economy.
I see it like this, you import ohlins add value (service, backup) and then onsell. Someone imports their own ohlins they get it cheaper because thay are not paying up front for added value, ie service and backup. If they need service or backup they either pay you or deal with wherever they purchased from.
You could always offer shocks at a similar price as overseas, BUT if it needs modifying tweaking sevicing etc thats extra.
A fair amount of the money you get from the sale of an ohlins shock must dissappear overseas as well, so its not like all the money stays in the NZ economy.
I dont see it as taking jobs etc. If it were they should ban shock imports altogether and build a shock factory here, employ designers, engineers, mechanics, it staff, consultants, tea ladies, accountants, etc etc etc, they would all have to be NZers, all the materials sourced locally, etc etc etc.
Its no different from somone shopping around within NZ, eg get a price from Auck, Welly and Chch and then deciding where to buy.
I am involved in a business which imports "stuff" we turn it into something else and export it. The "stuff" we import has a local agent, but we dont use because we get a better deal offshore. This enables us to be more competitive on the export side. If we used the NZ agent I would probably have to sell my bike just so he can keep his Jag in gas. I would rather keep my bike and he can sell his Jag. Rather than take a small cut in profit, he would rather have no sale because "everyone would want it cheap" And quite frankly, given the choice of supporting his business at the expense of mine, or keeping our business going by not supporting his, its an easy decision.
And we get the same thing at the export end, local jobs, manufacturing etc. We counter that with service and quality.
Everything works two ways, swings and roundabouts and all that.
You arent going to stop individuals from importing their own gear, so rather than whinge and moan about it, figure out a way to get their business, make it so its advantageous to them to buy from you.
You sell a great product and service, and from your point of view the price you charge is fair.
You have to look at it from the consumers point of view. All your consumers, not just the ones who are willing to spend 1000's because they can afford to and they want the best whatever the price
regards

[Robert Taylor]

I see it like this, you import ohlins add value (service, backup) and then onsell. Someone imports their own ohlins they get it cheaper because thay are not paying up front for added value, ie service and backup. If they need service or backup they either pay you or deal with wherever they purchased from.
You could always offer shocks at a similar price as overseas, BUT if it needs modifying tweaking sevicing etc thats extra.
A fair amount of the money you get from the sale of an ohlins shock must dissappear overseas as well, so its not like all the money stays in the NZ economy.
I dont see it as taking jobs etc. If it were they should ban shock imports altogether and build a shock factory here, employ designers, engineers, mechanics, it staff, consultants, tea ladies, accountants, etc etc etc, they would all have to be NZers, all the materials sourced locally, etc etc etc.
Its no different from somone shopping around within NZ, eg get a price from Auck, Welly and Chch and then deciding where to buy.
I am involved in a business which imports "stuff" we turn it into something else and export it. The "stuff" we import has a local agent, but we dont use because we get a better deal offshore. This enables us to be more competitive on the export side. If we used the NZ agent I would probably have to sell my bike just so he can keep his Jag in gas. I would rather keep my bike and he can sell his Jag. Rather than take a small cut in profit, he would rather have no sale because "everyone would want it cheap" And quite frankly, given the choice of supporting his business at the expense of mine, or keeping our business going by not supporting his, its an easy decision.
And we get the same thing at the export end, local jobs, manufacturing etc. We counter that with service and quality.
Everything works two ways, swings and roundabouts and all that.
You arent going to stop individuals from importing their own gear, so rather than whinge and moan about it, figure out a way to get their business, make it so its advantageous to them to buy from you.
You sell a great product and service, and from your point of view the price you charge is fair.
You have to look at it from the consumers point of view. All your consumers, not just the ones who are willing to spend 1000's because they can afford to and they want the best whatever the price
regards

Yes, we create a lot of ''added value'' and backup etc. But what is inequitable is that like a lot of products the Yanks often get a better buying price. Small economies cannot compete with that. The other inequitable thing that I made mention of is that private imports often attract no clearance charges and gst. If Ive missed anything ( in my haste ) I will comment further tonight.

[lankyman]

No doubt mate,thing is you probably dont offer a replacement for the TLs old pogo stick (and why would ya.),plenty on the TL site have replaced damper with Ohlins,Wilber,Hagon etc and used the unit Bitubo make without the inbuilt damper unit to replace the pogo stick when its buggered.

I didn't intend to under-cut or offend anybody. It is my right as a consumer to search around for the best deal possible.

[White trash]

I didn't intend to under-cut or offend anybody. It is my right as a consumer to search around for the best deal possible. And I do feel for importers with the way the dollar is at the moment.
Why? You should be worried about the exporters, they're the ones getting fucked.

[lankyman]

Why? You should be worried about the exporters, they're the ones getting fucked.

Sorry. My error there

[lankyman]

There are dampers ( space fillers as Martin pointed out ) and then there are dampers that actually work. The cheapies are knocked out with a very rudimentary damping system and they are built cheap and look cheap. A high quality aftermarket shock uses the best materials, has precise tolerancing and low friction. The damping force is individually and exhaustively tested for each individual make and model.
It is only because of the current exchange rate and a purchasing anomoly that currently sourcing out of the US looks attractive. That wont last.
As you are in NP maybe you should call in and see us so we can run through some options and whys and wherefores....

Yea. Like I said over the phone I am only investigating possibilities at this stage. I'm not the wealthiest man in the world (not to say that safety and good quality gear is worth putting a price on), but a $2000 purchase does take some planning for. I have heard nothing but good things about the people and service at CKT, and would always prefer to support the local guy over the off-shore supplier at any given chance. I apologise if you feel that this thread has given your company any bad exposure in any way.

[imdying]

It's all very simple. You need to decide if it's worth $500 for:
- Installing the correct spring for your weight etc
- Changing that spring if it's not quite what you thought would be best
- Having the shock valved to suit your riding and road conditions
- Having the valving fine tuned should you not find it to be exactly what you want
- Being able to return it for servicing for free under warranty to somewhere in NZ should it develop a fault

That's either worth the extra $500 to you or it's not. It's what, 2-3 days wages? Might save a little/lot of heartache should there be a problem, might give you a better end user experience.

Total price would be about:
$1233
+ $12.33 currency conversion costs (assuming 1% or whatever your credit card company charges you, might be more)
+ $50 freight
+ GST (which is charged on both product and freight) $161
+ Import Entry Transaction Fee $28.75
+ Biosecurity screening risk fee $4
Which is about $1489.

So the items at the top are costing you about $411. Only you can decide whether that offers good value for money or not. For what it's worth, CKT customers seem to be an exceptionally satisfied lot, might be something in that.

[Squiggles]

So the items at the top are costing you about $411. Only you can decide whether that offers good value for money or not. For what it's worth, CKT customers seem to be an exceptionally satisfied lot, might be something in that.

You forgot the paypal transaction rate differences / credit card fees

[pritch]

I didn't intend to under-cut or offend anybody. It is my right as a consumer to search around for the best deal possible.

Depends what you mean by best? Go and see Robert, - ring first.

Things must be looking up on the exchange rate, I thought 1900 odd looked good. Keep the old shock and you can put it back when you sell the bike. That'll make your next Ohlins cheaper... (I hope :-)

[Robert Taylor]

Depends what you mean by best? Go and see Robert, - ring first.

Things must be looking up on the exchange rate, I thought 1900 odd looked good. Keep the old shock and you can put it back when you sell the bike. That'll make your next Ohlins cheaper... (I hope :-)

Good point Pritch, we trade used Ohlins for new, providing of course we sold it in the first instance.

[98tls]

Its good to know that Bitubo make a new ''guide'' for the seperate spring unit, especially as the Suzuki one is an obscene price.

I have in the past deliberated about combining the Ohlins damper with a coil over spring but I need a donor bike ( and time ) to see if there are any clearance issues and to test spring rates. As the motion ratio and leverage imparted to it will be different to the side unit a starting point would have to be established. But likely the spring rate would have to be reasonably stiff due to the direct actuation. That means a somewhat ''fat'' spring and theres not a lot of space without some re-engineering. Remember you saying about that awhile back,how long would you need the TL for? would a winter be enough time?Am sure you have way more important things to do than come up with something for a 11 year old bike but if your keen i see no reason why i couldnt get mine up to you for a winter or so.With the $ i believe that if it worked it would be an attractive option for many overseas and from my years on the TL site theres plenty of them out there still being raced,modified,rebuilt etc,there a fairly devoted bunch and the money spent on many of them is unbelievable.,interestingly enough it seems as the years go buy theres more and more owners appearing on the site spending it seems more and more money on the old things.

[Robert Taylor]

I didn't intend to under-cut or offend anybody. It is my right as a consumer to search around for the best deal possible.

No not at all, it highlights very real problems that especially small businesses ( and by implication the job security of their employees ) face in NZ.
By defining the best deal it is not only about price.
Like many authorised and exclusive distributors of goods we are still as much as possible trying to do the right thing by having a wholesale margin that we sell to a dealer at and then a recommended retail price. Worldwide that long accepted business etiquette is under ever increasing threat.
We are however flexible on price and the whole package if we are given the chance to do so.
After sales service and knowledge completes the package. We are VERY serious about this and in NZ there are only a handful of technicians that have actually been ( very recently )trained by a Swedish factory engineer. And a very select few that have ongoing access to Ohlins distributor / service centre database. We do withold information if the person enquiring is not deemed to be proficient , is untrustworthy or is disloyal to historic knowledge imparted and buys goods elsewhere offshore. If someone is not accredited / formally trained says ''I can do it, its easy and I can get the info'' its being somewhat economical with the truth.

[Robert Taylor]

Why? You should be worried about the exporters, they're the ones getting fucked.

I agree 100% Of course this has come about primarily because of the weakness of the $US. Ultimately I believe the exchange rate ideally sits at $US 50 to 55 cents per 1 NZ dollar.
We should be earning more through exports ( which bring about more jobs ) and EVERYTHING that is imported should attract clearance and gst charges.

[Robert Taylor]

Remember you saying about that awhile back,how long would you need the TL for? would a winter be enough time?Am sure you have way more important things to do than come up with something for a 11 year old bike but if your keen i see no reason why i couldnt get mine up to you for a winter or so.With the $ i believe that if it worked it would be an attractive option for many overseas and from my years on the TL site theres plenty of them out there still being raced,modified,rebuilt etc,there a fairly devoted bunch and the money spent on many of them is unbelievable.,interestingly enough it seems as the years go buy theres more and more owners appearing on the site spending it seems more and more money on the old things.

Yes Ive noticed that. Initial sales of dampers for these ( when they first came out ) was more about riders wanting a damper that actually worked without need of a season ticket to the local chiropractor! At least for those riders attentive to the fact that the stock damper is worse than appalling!
Most recent sales are because the rotary friction dampers are chernobyling due to old age.
Its best to just bring the bike for me to have a look at while Im at a race meeting in your area. I will soon know if its feasible just by eyeballing the installation. It probably doesnt make so much economic sense anymore but an interesting exercise nonetheless.

[98tls]

Yes Ive noticed that. Initial sales of dampers for these ( when they first came out ) was more about riders wanting a damper that actually worked without need of a season ticket to the local chiropractor! At least for those riders attentive to the fact that the stock damper is worse than appalling!
Most recent sales are because the rotary friction dampers are chernobyling due to old age.
Its best to just bring the bike for me to have a look at while Im at a race meeting in your area. I will soon know if its feasible just by eyeballing the installation. It probably doesnt make so much economic sense anymore but an interesting exercise nonetheless. I hear that,even with my cheap option i still remember the "wahoo it goes up n down" feeling when i fitted it.As you know theres a few options out there with a spring but not of a size to not require some help.If you remember drop me a pm next time your headed south and i will gladly get it to you for a look.Nothing ventured nothing gained eh.Thanks for taking the time.

[Robert Taylor]

I hear that,even with my cheap option i still remember the "wahoo it goes up n down" feeling when i fitted it.As you know theres a few options out there with a spring but not of a size to not require some help.If you remember drop me a pm next time your headed south and i will gladly get it to you for a look.Nothing ventured nothing gained eh.Thanks for taking the time.

Ruapuna round of the road race nationals.

[98tls]

Ruapuna round of the road race nationals.

Cheers,will sort out the date,no doubt you will be pretty busy when there,sure you will have the time? its only a couple of hours up the road but dont want it to be a hassle for you at the time.If not then cheers see you there.

[Robert Taylor]

Cheers,will sort out the date,no doubt you will be pretty busy when there,sure you will have the time? its only a couple of hours up the road but dont want it to be a hassle for you at the time.If not then cheers see you there.

Easy, if its arranged for the end of the day and you take the tank off. It will take me but a few minutes from there to see if its feasible.

[98tls]

Easy, if its arranged for the end of the day and you take the tank off. It will take me but a few minutes from there to see if its feasible. Head up there quite often to visit the old girl,will take steering damper etc off and throw the bike on the back of the ute,easy to undo the two bolts and lift the tank.Ta.

[Robert Taylor]

Head up there quite often to visit the old girl,will take steering damper etc off and throw the bike on the back of the ute,easy to undo the two bolts and lift the tank.Ta.

Timaru is another option.....

[lankyman]

Yes Ive noticed that. Initial sales of dampers for these ( when they first came out ) was more about riders wanting a damper that actually worked without need of a season ticket to the local chiropractor! At least for those riders attentive to the fact that the stock damper is worse than appalling!
Most recent sales are because the rotary friction dampers are chernobyling due to old age.
Its best to just bring the bike for me to have a look at while Im at a race meeting in your area. I will soon know if its feasible just by eyeballing the installation. It probably doesnt make so much economic sense anymore but an interesting exercise nonetheless.

If you're wanting to have a look at factory TL's spring installation I'd be happy to bring mine up after work at some stage, I finish at half 4.

[Robert Taylor]

If you're wanting to have a look at factory TL's spring installation I'd be happy to bring mine up after work at some stage, I finish at half 4.

Thanks, its an Ohlins installation I need to look at, but call in anyway and I will happily check the side damper unit and give you some options etc.

[lankyman]

Thanks, its an Ohlins installation I need to look at, but call in anyway and I will happily check the side damper unit and give you some options etc.

Cool. I'll call in tomorrow afternoon around 4:30