We are losing the battle to ACC

[FastBikeGear]

I hate to say it but the ACC's PR department is winning!

The ACC is 100% consistent about the $77 dollar message and it is sticking. All the submissions we sent today arn't worth a single opportunity for the ACC to get their repeated message printed in one more paper that "even with the proposed motorcycle levy increases car drivers are subsidising motorbike ACC liabilities to the tune of $77."

Yes we all have each other convinced here, but we are talking to the converted and we are a minority. We need to get Les on the radio again - he's great at this.

We need to join and address every public forum on the Internet where this can be discussed.

The war for the publics mind is not going to be drawn out. In fact I think it will be over the day after we hit Wellington. Everyone will be tired of us and the ACC and this story by then. We the public has a short attention span....say is that a fly on your head?

This is a marketing battle. Our cause will be won or lost on how National perceive their chances of getting car drivers to side with them (and vote for them at the next election)


Their message is consistent
Their message is very simple to understand
Their message is believable (We are bikers they are a government department with no reason to lie)
Their message directly impacts on the reader ($77 dollars out of your pocket)


We need to fight fire with fire and place some advertisements of our own.

We also need to be able to tell our story very simply in less than 100 words and with one or two key simple memorable messages. We need to fund and initiate our own marketing campaign so that we can tell our story without interference,

Who else out there has had some marketing experience, has some time available, lives in Auckland and would like to work with me on this?

We only need a small team to focus on this.

[Mom]

The scarey bikers are working their fingers to the bone to attempt to raise money for the cause. Well I have had a blister already :dodge:

We have no way of matching the criminal way this corporation are using MY/OUR money to spew their propoganda to all and sundry, that is a given. We just have to keep hammering away, letters to editors, letters to MP's etc.

[Skyryder]

We are never going to win the advertising war. Money is the issue. No matter how much is raised ACC can raise more. Someone mentioned the thing about biker charities and the causes that we give to. I think this would be the road to go down. Pretty hard to counter the generosity arguement and lets face it for the PR debate we are unparrelled in that department.

Skyryder

[mud boy]

this sucks as we should be alound to vote
fuckin bull shit!!!:bash:

[Hawkeye]

Our cause will be won or lost on how National perceive their chances of getting car drivers to side with them (and vote for them at the next election)



The other thing that we don't appear to be doing very well is making National realise that MOST bikers also have cars. I have 2 bikes and 2 cars. There are also 4 voters in my household.
When National finaly realise that they are screwing with the amount of voters they are pissing off, and realise that the majority are not snotty 16 year olds (sorry guy's) and do actually have a brain, it may be too late.

[StoneY]

ACC are NOT winning anything

I have been talking at service stations and banks, and supermarkets with NON biker public members who all to a man and woman can see through the 77$ argument

There is far more support for us in the public than this bullshit levy hike, even my boss a dedicated 4WD enthusiast who HATES big motorcycles passionately is on our side, giving me use of company resources for the BIKEOI organising

Wether they stick to the flawed figures or not its still a blatantly fabricated piece of bullshit, and in this day and age of the Interweb fingy, no ones buying into it, not im MY country at least

There has been more press on our side lately than on ACC's too so where do you get "ACC are winning" from?
Even Nick Smith is talking about backing off the increase, and FACE TO FACE last on 31st I shot his numbers down, he stood in front of me looking utterly stupid when I told him the true figures

ACC winning...my ass thyere winning

[StoneY]

We are never going to win the advertising war. Money is the issue. No matter how much is raised ACC can raise more. Someone mentioned the thing about biker charities and the causes that we give to. I think this would be the road to go down. Pretty hard to counter the generosity arguement and lets face it for the PR debate we are unparrelled in that department.

Skyryder

Yep, I said we should donate 10 bucks PER class 6 license in NZ to BRONZ and get the ball rolling on a REAL warchest

Think about it, 10 bucks each...250,000 class 6 holders.......2.5 mil? (im no use at math)

[scissorhands]

I disagree. The clashes I've seen on TV, bikers came out the winner.

However, constant continued pressure on National and ongoing street protest MUST be evident to everyone.

Now with Labour by our side, bikers can feel there is a very good chance of success.

Probably all this will die down for Xmas and they will spring it on us again in the very near future, slightly repackaged.

Time and energy to go to thye street, is all that is really required, money is not compulsory to win this.

I'd be willing to protest in my neighbourhood EVERY week. Be fun, have a few beers....

[paturoa]

Forget cagers and the general populace - some will support us some wont, but the real leverage is the next election thing.

What I've sent to my MP is a clear signal that I vote every election and you WILL NOT BE GETTING either my electorate or party vote next election if this goes through.

Get 10s of thousand bikers to signal that to to the pollies and ....

[idleidolidyll]

You're all correct: we are losing, we don't have the money to fight them in the media.

You're also correct when you identify National as the culprit instead of the ACC.

The ONLY way IMO to get air time is to create mahem on the roads; we can do this riding as we see many tin tops drive.

We can ride slowly in groups, we can use all the car parks, we can do many things that will get attention besides just riding single lane and not making others feel our anger.
I believe our feel good ride to Wellington will do little unless it is followed or preceeded by disruptive protest action.

I hope to be there but I don't expect more than a discount on the percentage.

[SARGE]

losers are just morons without the balls to cheat


if the protest rides dont work.. may i suggest a Biker Stop Work rally.. lay down your tools, log off your workstation .. park your delivery truck,


let the 'voting public' know how many there are of us for a few days


its not just the hoon on SH16 .. its your workmate.. your tech guy .. your incoming goods team..the hottie at the mall..

[H00dz]

I hate to say it but the ACC's PR department is winning!



We need to fight fire with fire and place some advertisements of our own.

Who else out there has had some marketing experience, has some time available, lives in Auckland and would like to work with me on this?

We only need a small team to focus on this.

PLEASE Edit your Thread Title, We must be taken seriously but "LOOSING" the battle needs to be ammended, everytime I see another response I just "LOSE" it......C'mon its "LOSING" the message:crybaby:

[StoneY]

The ONLY way IMO to get air time is to create mahem on the roads; we can do this riding as we see many tin tops drive.

Wrong, you'll just piss off the other voters who are currently sympathetic


I believe our feel good ride to Wellington will do little unless it is followed or preceeded by disruptive protest action.

If you think thousands of passive people making a peaceful show of solidarity is nothing more than a 'feel good' ride, then stay home, dont need you


Ever heard of Mahatma Ghandi???
He never raised his voice in anger, or resorted to force or disruption

[idleidolidyll]

Wrong, you'll just piss off the other voters who are currently sympathetic

If you think thousands of passive people making a peaceful show of solidarity is nothing more than a 'feel good' ride, then stay home, dont need you

Ever heard of Mahatma Ghandi???
He never raised his voice in anger, or resorted to force or disruption

history proves you wrong: how many metres of cheesecutter fencing have been removed? That was a feel good ride and yes, I was there.

Piss off other road users? Like most of you, I AM an "other road user", I drive a tin top too. If those in power refuse to listen, you have to slap their cheeks until they do. BTW: who the hell appointed you ride leader?

Ghandi was very happy to stage mass sit ins where he caused massive disruption and bought attention to the cause. He merely rejected violence. Read the words: I advocate LEGAL disruption; go read about Ghandi.

[Kiwi Graham]

I can see what wobblyas is saying.

How much would a national advert be devided by us all to rebut the ad ACC put out nationaly?

Its not only the public that need to see through the ACC lies its the politicians that need to see the public seeing it...........if you know what I mean.

[scissorhands]

Ever heard of Mahatma Ghandi???
He never raised his voice in anger, or resorted to force or disruption

Yeah. Anger is 1 letter short of danger. Controlled aggression is better. No hot heads revving everyone up and making rash mistakes please

[idleidolidyll]

Yeah. Anger is 1 letter short of danger. Controlled aggression is better. No hot heads revving everyone up and making rash mistakes please

Sure: I advocate a controlled aggressive slow ride along the Southern Motorway blocking all lanes for several hours over and over again until they pay attention.........

[Kiwi Graham]

Sure: I advocate a controlled aggressive slow ride along the Southern Motorway blocking all lanes for several hours over and over again until they pay attention.........

Mate,
your passion is commendable but your ideas are destructive.
We are no where near the stage of anything other than peaceful, non disruptive protest, please dont fuck this up.

[James Deuce]

One of the issues we have are bikers who don't give a shit about spelling or sentence construction or using the right word in the right context.

I'm not loosing anything.

[wingnutt]

I agree with stoney we are not loosing guys, everyone I have spoken my boss, friiends all agree that the acc levies are a crock of shit.

there is huge support for us, the wellington ride with 6000 to 8000 riders is for one totally historic, I cant remember ever seeing anything like this protest.

If smith has done his political numbers, he will know a protest of this size can get him out of a job, in my opinion, he will no chioce but to bend or next election is on the line for national if he doesn't.

cheers,

Bob

[R6_kid]

Get the message across that we are just the first of many a minority to be targeted - we are just the easiest of the pickings.

The change is:
Fundamentally wrong - going against the original idea of what ACC was setup for.
Discriminatory - against bikers for the meantime, but soon to spread to others minorities.

Stop the 'angry bikers' bollocks and start making the public aware that we are just the first line of attack against this change which will affect ALL NEW ZEALANDERS who want to use ACC in the future.

[idleidolidyll]

Mate,
your passion is commendable but your ideas are destructive.
We are no where near the stage of anything other than peaceful, non disruptive protest, please dont fuck this up.

fuck what up?

so far they are ignoring us, getting their attention and that of the media is not a fuck up; attacking the messenger instead of the instigator is a fuck up

please let me in on the secret: peaceful, non disruptive protest has cleaned up the road works?
peaceful, non disruptive protest has made em take out miles of cheesecutter?
peaceful, non disruptive protest has persuaded wellington CC to put in more bike parks instead of taking them away?
peaceful non disruptive protest has stopped the police describing damn near every bike accident as "due to excessive speed"?

mass disruptive protest however DID actually win a major battle with the Auck CC

from my POV; motorcyclists rights gave taken many leaps backward over the last 20 years

what peaceful non disruptive action has or will reverse that trend? I apologise, I don't see a solution in peaceful non disruprive action, all I can see is history

[idleidolidyll]

I agree with stoney we are not loosing guys, everyone I have spoken my boss, friiends all agree that the acc levies are a crock of shit.

there is huge support for us, the wellington ride with 6000 to 8000 riders is for one totally historic, I cant remember ever seeing anything like this protest.

If smith has done his political numbers, he will know a protest of this size can get him out of a job, in my opinion, he will no chioce but to bend or next election is on the line for national if he doesn't.

cheers,

Bob

the next election is years away; that's why they do these things in the early part of a term: the public will forget and the right wingers here will still vote national

[Mom]

The other thing that we don't appear to be doing very well is making National realise that MOST bikers also have cars. I have 2 bikes and 2 cars. There are also 4 voters in my household.
When National finaly realise that the majority are not snotty 16 year olds (sorry guy's) and do actually have a brain, it may be too late.

Apologies for the shortened quote, hope I did not miss anything important.

I am part of a 2 member voting household, though we have 4 in reserve :D

You are right, cars and bikes. I dont even want to think about the amount of ACC we pay here. Let me see...

Employer levies, residual employer levies, deducted at source PAYE based levies, Acc levies by vehicle 2 bikes, 2 petrol powered vehicles.

I am a menace :yes: truely, I really am a menace. I contribute more than I friggen earn right now!




There is far more support for us in the public than this bullshit levy hike, even my boss a dedicated 4WD enthusiast who HATES big motorcycles passionately is on our side, giving me use of company resources for the BIKEOI organising
ACC winning...my ass thyere winning

And this is yet another avenue to be explored, the ordinary bloke who HATES motorcycles. I am sure they dont really, but woe betide them, it WILL be their turn next. We are bike focussed for the now, but we are not the only ones about to be bitten on the arse. At least we, or some of us anyways are prepared to spend a bit of energy to push back against this completely unacceptable, outrageous levy proposal.



One of the issues we have are bikers who don't give a shit about spelling or sentence construction or using the right word in the right context.
I'm not loosing anything.

Me either, infact I take exception to being called loose in any form.

[Okey Dokey]

I can see what wobblyas is saying.

How much would a national advert be devided by us all to rebut the ad ACC put out nationaly?

Its not only the public that need to see through the ACC lies its the politicians that need to see the public seeing it...........if you know what I mean.

Writing a letter to the editor of the paper it appeared in (I did) costs nothing, and I think a lot of people read the letters page. So far, mine hasn't been published, but an earlier letter I wrote about the motorbike levy hike was published.

EDIT: Letter published in ODT 11/11 hooray!

[Ixion]

Y'know, round about now every police intelligence oik told off to watch us, is yelling "Sarge, Sarge, come here quick"

The debate about peaceful versus disruptive is worth having. But not in public view.

If you don't support disruptive protest then debating the idea in a public forum is sending totally the wrong message

If you do, then giving away your agenda is just plain stupid.

I've changed the MANIFESTO public group so it's invite only and laboriously copied the appropriate posts from here (and a boring task it was)

I've sent invites to everyone that's been debating it here.

Anyone else wants in, just post here and I'll add you, provided you didn't join just a few days ago, and your handle isn't something like Size13Boots. (unless a clever mod can come up with an easier way of doing it )

I really very strongly suggest that the debate be held there , out of sight of the world.

And a passing thought. There's a time and place for every purpose under Heaven.
s

[Mom]

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[candor]

constant continued pressure on National and ongoing street protest MUST be evident to everyone.

Now with Labour by our side, bikers can feel there is a very good chance of success.

....

The govt pushes one divisive message - cars subsidise you

The answer is to push one even more powerful message instead. Switch and set the agenda. Too many messages results in confusion. But find a good one that is more interesting to media to drown out ACCs drivel meme. Goal - every Kiwi knows it.

IMO best picks would be one of

1. This is a back door way for a fault based scheme and heres how it will affect other (main) groups taken to logical conclusion...
2. Bikers made to carry can for failed road safety experiment commenced 2003 but failure to deal to cause will see massive hikes fopr other groups inevitable as the situation worsens.

Not environment - people have green fatigue
Not parking etc as not such an emotive button to push
Stay away from pushing the bikers are philanthropists, or poor us taxed off roads. Too off the relate it to me me me (the non biker majority) topic, sympathy more likely from arguments that are inclusive, and concern fairness or fear mongering. Kiwis pride on a fair go.

Vital supportive info - bikers not featuring in serious injury rise, its cagers per MoH stats

The danger wityh Lasbour acting on side is it caused the problem so won't want to look too hard fr source and solutions, Nats however if encouraged to properly deal with it may rise to occasion - it is listening hard to public messages - it has walkedinto an unholy mess and is trying for urgent solutions even before getting its head round Clarks ground zero. Time is the friend - seeking deeper consideration and offering up solutions.

[Squiggles]

They keep screwing up, their points change as they faulter...

[Laxi]

Get the message across that we are just the first of many a minority to be targeted .

bling sent! at the moment I think ACC are doing more than we ever could to make themselves look like coonts. Bulshit stats, news paper ads promoting bs stats, stationary change to "ACC insurance" and press releases about there new computer system being built for forseen competition with private sector companys, they're doing an amazing job of letting everyone know what a pack of assholes and lyars they are.

[Squiggles]

blah


Read up on Ghandi...

The time for peaceful protest is still with us, should their plans go ahead then this may change but if it does happen there's every chance we'll no longer stand alone...

From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know not of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

[Reckless]

I have said all along we need to protest against NATIONAL not ACC. I made this point on the t shirt thread and got the Nats logo put on there.

OK here's a weapon we have! "The internet" and not just bitching about ACC on KB!

I'm gonna Send Ixions submission to everyone in my address book like a chain letter even to my Business & Family contacts.

OK I just edited all the extra lines out, it shortened it a bit then

A short note from my self and the following.

Vote National OUT!!
The ACC Campaign is a LIE!
Read the Truth!!
Join us or Your Next!!
Send this information on to all in your address book please!!!!

I don't mind if some, all or only a few read or even skim it if we can get just a few people out there spouting our message to their friends its a start!

Its kept its formatting pretty well and I don't know how to attach it here so if you want a copy so you don't have spend time to edit it and you can just forward it on email me reckless@xnet.co.nz

[FastBikeGear]

Sure: I advocate a controlled aggressive slow ride along the Southern Motorway blocking all lanes for several hours over and over again until they pay attention.........

No! we win this by keeping the wider masses supporting us. I am sure that we can come up with creative ideas for protesting that won't disrupt or inconvenience the public.


Get the message across that we are just the first of many a minority to be targeted - we are just the easiest of the pickings.

The change is:
Fundamentally wrong - going against the original idea of what ACC was setup for.
Discriminatory - against bikers for the meantime, but soon to spread to others minorities.

Stop the 'angry bikers' bollocks and start making the public aware that we are just the first line of attack against this change which will affect ALL NEW ZEALANDERS who want to use ACC in the future.

Spot on!


The govt pushes one divisive message - cars subsidise you

The answer is to push one even more powerful message instead. Switch and set the agenda. Too many messages results in confusion. But find a good one that is more interesting to media to drown out ACCs drivel meme. Goal - every Kiwi knows it.

IMO best picks would be one of

1. This is a back door way for a fault based scheme and heres how it will affect other (main) groups taken to logical conclusion...
2. Bikers made to carry can for failed road safety experiment commenced 2003 but failure to deal to cause will see massive hikes fopr other groups inevitable as the situation worsens.

Not environment - people have green fatigue
Not parking etc as not such an emotive button to push
Stay away from pushing the bikers are philanthropists, or poor us taxed off roads. Too off the relate it to me me me (the non biker majority) topic, sympathy more likely from arguments that are inclusive, and concern fairness or fear mongering. Kiwis pride on a fair go.
.

Spot on. We need a simple consistent message with a few memorable lines.


Read up on Ghandi...

The time for peaceful protest is still with us, should their plans go ahead then this may change but if it does happen there's every chance we'll no longer stand alone...

From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know nothing of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

Well put! I think Ghandi's protests were once described as "passive resistance" He kept the wider audience on his side at all time.


I have said all along we need to protest against NATIONAL not ACC. I made this point on the t shirt thread and got the Nats logo put on there.

OK here's a weapon we have! "The internet" and not just bitching about ACC on KB!

I'm gonna Send Ixions submission to everyone in my address book like a chain letter even to my Business & Family contacts.


Excellent it's a great submission.

Also lets allow room for National to come out and re-evaluate their options.

[wingrider]

In the past two weeks I have never had as many strangers (all non bikers) both male and female that have come and spoken to me and TELL me that this is wrong. Not one mention of them seeing me or any others as leather clad moorons.

The majority of them have also stated that they consider JK as a front man only because he's got a cute smile.

Also the majority stated that they voted national at the last election and consider it a mistake because of the hidden agenda's that are just coming to light.

Yes natinal will want to do this early in the piece believing that we will just roll over and forget about it.

I reiterate and support those that state we must now include JK in this protest and not allow him to sit at the back and smile to the crowd.

His Ministers might make the legislations but it is he that has the final say.

If we want to piss anyone off then it needs to be those National MP's and any of their supportive MP's from other parties. Get onside with all the other groups to show support where applicable when they protest about changes that will affect them.

There is a ground swell starting to rise up. What it needs is a united front with each supporting the other so that national is fronting a mass whenever they try to bring in things via the back door and no one is seen as a small splinter group.

Also show national that we will not allow them to protect commentators from their coillition partners that make statements that are offensive to the greater majority of the public just so they can hold a balance of power.

I for one will not stand by and watch these bastards stuff up not only my life but those of my children and grandchildren.

I am not prepared to break the law but I will partake in passive aggression for the benefit of all.

[Pixie]

You're all correct: we are losing, we don't have the money to fight them in the media.

You're also correct when you identify National as the culprit instead of the ACC.

The ONLY way IMO to get air time is to create mahem on the roads; we can do this riding as we see many tin tops drive.

We can ride slowly in groups, we can use all the car parks, we can do many things that will get attention besides just riding single lane and not making others feel our anger.
I believe our feel good ride to Wellington will do little unless it is followed or preceeded by disruptive protest action.

I hope to be there but I don't expect more than a discount on the percentage.

Ultimately,we may have to do this and also tear up our registration labels on TV if enough of us show some spine.

[DidJit]

...From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know not of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)


No! we win this by keeping the wider masses supporting us. I am sure that we can come up with creative ideas for protesting that won't disrupt or inconvenience the public.


Ultimately,we may have to do this and also tear up our registration labels on TV if enough of us show some spine.

The greater public will understand and be tolerant if they do know about the cause, and many of them do. What we are all doing right now — actively letting our non-biker friends & colleagues know about the shafting the government is planning for the people of NZ — is raising awareness and the beginnings of a groundswell of support.

If we were to stage a 'disruptive' protest as we've gone about the ride on the 17th — i.e. informing police authorities, showing proper organisation, making the greater public aware of our planned action well in advance and telling them why — then I think the greater public will be right behind us.

Also, I think it is time our protest messages are more inclusive of the people of NZ. This proposal doesn't just affect bikers — it is just the beginning. If these proposed measures were to go through, there will be more and more hard times and loss of freedoms for everyone ahead.

George Orwell's warning, made in 1948, seems to be of more and more relevance these days...

[StoneY]

If we were to stage a 'disruptive' protest as we've gone about the ride on the 17th — i.e. informing police authorities, showing proper organisation, making the greater public aware of our planned action well in advance and telling them why — then I think the greater public will be right behind us.



They were not happy with the Truckies man, even with 2 weeks of publicity about the rolling truck protest

I still say thats to be left till there is NO other choice
Right now the average everyday Kiwi is behind us, keep em onside by showing how reasonable, ballanced and considerate Bikers REALLY are

I have only recieved any sort of negative feedback at ASB bank where my banking officer tried to justify the ACC levies to me on the grounds ACC have been spammimng, and refused to see the true figures (some banker)
Obviously ASB and some of the subsidiaries are in on the gig.....


Kiwibank and Rabo now have all my business and my new home loan

[MSTRS]

Not parking etc as not such an emotive button to push


You sure about that?
If MrCage is faced with the prospect of having 'his' park taken by a biker (in a car), he will be only too happy to support us. Said MrCage is lazy, and will be unmotivated to act, UNLESS his freedoms are under threat.

[Chrislost]

I hate to say it but the ACC's PR department is winning!

The ACC is 100% consistent about the $77 dollar message and it is sticking. All the submissions we sent today arn't worth a single opportunity for the ACC to get their repeated message printed in one more paper that "even with the proposed motorcycle levy increases car drivers are subsidising motorbike ACC liabilities to the tune of $77."

Yes we all have each other convinced here, but we are talking to the converted and we are a minority. We need to get Les on the radio again - he's great at this.

We need to join and address every public forum on the Internet where this can be discussed.

The war for the publics mind is not going to be drawn out. In fact I think it will be over the day after we hit Wellington. Everyone will be tired of us and the ACC and this story by then. We the public has a short attention span....say is that a fly on your head?

This is a marketing battle. Our cause will be won or lost on how National perceive their chances of getting car drivers to side with them (and vote for them at the next election)


Their message is consistent
Their message is very simple to understand
Their message is believable (We are bikers they are a government department with no reason to lie)
Their message directly impacts on the reader ($77 dollars out of your pocket)


We need to fight fire with fire and place some advertisements of our own.

We also need to be able to tell our story very simply in less than 100 words and with one or two key simple memorable messages. We need to fund and initiate our own marketing campaign so that we can tell our story without interference,

Who else out there has had some marketing experience, has some time available, lives in Auckland and would like to work with me on this?

We only need a small team to focus on this.

I Didnt realise there was a battle against acc?

I thought that a few bikers had organised a protest or somthing, but without coming to kiwibiker.co.nz i didnt know that ANYTHING was happening.

I do live under a rock, but my radio goes(havnt heard anything there) and i read the neawspaper seen a (couple of bits n bobs there a few weeks ago)
Alas, i think you may need to actually tell some people about your battle, else its kind of not even a crusade...

[ManDownUnder]

Read up on Ghandi...

The time for peaceful protest is still with us, should their plans go ahead then this may change but if it does happen there's every chance we'll no longer stand alone...

From a cagers pov, causing a traffic jam for a cause they know not of is only going to frustrate. They'll know exactly whats happening on the 17th (and it will disrupt, but not intentionally)

Peaceful protests... I like them. Use the system against itself.

For example... park, downtown, one carpark per bike. Paid - all legit... when the maximum period is up, move the bikes. One carpark up or down ought to do it. Don't impact places like NewMarket or other major shopping centres. That's not fair on retailers. But if parking around ACC or other key agencies happened to be really badly hit it'd be kind of ironic wouldn't it?

[idleidolidyll]

They were not happy with the Truckies man, even with 2 weeks of publicity about the rolling truck protest

I still say thats to be left till there is NO other choice
Right now the average everyday Kiwi is behind us, keep em onside by showing how reasonable, ballanced and considerate Bikers REALLY are

I have only recieved any sort of negative feedback at ASB bank where my banking officer tried to justify the ACC levies to me on the grounds ACC have been spammimng, and refused to see the true figures (some banker)
Obviously ASB and some of the subsidiaries are in on the gig.....


Kiwibank and Rabo now have all my business and my new home loan


One of our trucks was in the Trucker protest. The number of cheers and the support was actually outstanding and the organisation behind the trucker protest was excellent.

We need MUCH more media coverage in order to educate people like your ASB workmates: I don't believe we will get enough with non disruptive protest

[Hanne]

Had an interesting encounter yesterday, literally with a random off the street. And if this was anything to go by, we are not losing.

I was walking home with my bike gear (was dropped at work) and a roadside avocado seller tried to get me to buy some avocadoes. Said sorry but my arms were full, couldn't carry them and he said that's what the bike's for, eh.

So I told him yeah, but because of the proposed ACC levies I could no longer afford one. Bit cheeky, but we got talking, he hadn't heard that much about what was happening but after just a few mins he was totally on side and signed the petition I happened to have in my backpack.

Personally I reckon it is encounters like that that will really have most effect on getting public onside. This is the personal interaction stuff, the stuff people remember becasue it puts a face to things, not just 'big bad bikers'. Sometimes you don't quite realise how much progress you have made, but the most effective things take time for the quiet groundswell to get noticed. Far better take this approach now that just a flash - in -the - pan huge angry knee jerk etc reaction that is forgotton in a week.

So talk to people, might not seem like much but if everyone talks then word of mouth can go a long way.

[BMWST?]

Sure: I advocate a controlled aggressive slow ride along the Southern Motorway blocking all lanes for several hours over and over again until they pay attention.........

thats illegall.Keep left unless passing....

[idleidolidyll]

thats illegall.Keep left unless passing....

we're not in Britain

when did you last see a cop pull over ANYTHING for this

besides, it would be vvveeerrryyy eeeaaasssyy ttooo ssslllooowwwlllyyy pppaasss eeeaaaccchhh oootthheeerrr.........aagggaaiinnn annnddd aaggaaaaiiinn

[BMWST?]

we're not in Britain

when did you last see a cop pull over ANYTHING for this

besides, it would be vvveeerrryyy eeeaaasssyy ttooo ssslllooowwwlllyyy pppaasss eeeaaaccchhh oootthheeerrr.........aagggaaiinnn annnddd aaggaaaaiiinn

just because you havent seen a cop do it doesnt mean they cant,or wont...I think we may need to up the anti,but we need a way to hit the acc and the nats ,WITHOUT pissing off joe public.
Make no mistake theis is The ACC They will have the general gist instructed from n high,but these ideas are ACC not the Nats.

[taff1954]

Personally I reckon it is encounters like that that will really have most effect on getting public onside. This is the personal interaction stuff, the stuff people remember becasue it puts a face to things, not just 'big bad bikers'. Sometimes you don't quite realise how much progress you have made, but the most effective things take time for the quiet groundswell to get noticed. Far better take this approach now that just a flash - in -the - pan huge angry knee jerk etc reaction that is forgotton in a week.

So talk to people, might not seem like much but if everyone talks then word of mouth can go a long way.

Hanne is right. One on one contact works. Since this news broke a month ago, every conversation I've got into over the subject, bar one - a little old lady who thinks that nice Mr Smith would never lie to us - has been in our favour. And as time has moved on, so more and more are either asking the who's next question, or questioning the ulterior motive. I've had a local dairy owner ask if he can do anything to help - he can see the writing's on the wall for our no-fault compensation scheme. Since my name got splattered over the front page of the local paper last week following the ride in New Plymouth, I've been asked almost every day at work, how's the protest going, can you win? Slowly but surely, there is indeed a groundswell of public support coming from middle NZ.

[taff1954]

we're not in Britain

when did you last see a cop pull over ANYTHING for this

besides, it would be vvveeerrryyy eeeaaasssyy ttooo ssslllooowwwlllyyy pppaasss eeeaaaccchhh oootthheeerrr.........aagggaaiinnn annnddd aaggaaaaiiinn

About 6 months ago, SH3 just south of Hawera. He reckoned I was holding up traffic in the truck I was driving. And I was, not deliberately, I just couldn't see anywhere safe to pull over.

[NighthawkNZ]

thats illegall.Keep left unless passing....

If there is enough on the slow ride that is easy to counter act... left lane goes a 60kph, right lane at 70kph

As the faster lane gets to the front you change lanes to the left lane and back to 60kph. when you are last bike on the left you slowly pull out to over take at 70kph

then no law is broken. For it to work though every one needs to play the part and would work better if there are a few hundred bikes doing it

[Sis]

In all my years of riding bikes, I have found us as a be very independant opiniated bunch of New Zealanders.
And here we are all pulling together to fight these injustices! Bloody Brilliant!:woohoo:

This has got ACC and National worried. Otherwise why had the ACC put the quarter page advert in the New Zealand Herald recently?

We need to keep up the pressure and have several steps of action lined up in advance.

At the moment, we have a lot of other road users on our side. Let's not destroy this. Perhaps some of our actions should involve those who want to protest with us but do not ride bikes? Some of us could go in disguise as car drivers, truck drivers etc. Then the government will have more trouble actually trying to single out motorbikes. Do you see where I am coming from?

[NighthawkNZ]

We need to keep up the pressure and have several steps of action lined up in advance.

At the moment, we have a lot of other road users on our side. Let's not destroy this. Perhaps some of our actions should involve those who want to protest with us but do not ride bikes? Some of us could go in disguise as car drivers, truck drivers etc. Then the government will have more trouble actually trying to single out motorbikes. Do you see where I am coming from?

agreed :2thumbsup

[idleidolidyll]

About 6 months ago, SH3 just south of Hawera. He reckoned I was holding up traffic in the truck I was driving. And I was, not deliberately, I just couldn't see anywhere safe to pull over.

touche!

i was pulled over by plod when i was 16 for holding up traffic in henderson: strange thing was i was at the back of a row of tin tops and i was going their speed

i think it was about 1975 and that's funnily about the time i realised that plod and his masters didn't like bikers

[idleidolidyll]

In all my years of riding bikes, I have found us as a be very independant opiniated bunch of New Zealanders.
And here we are all pulling together to fight these injustices! Bloody Brilliant!:woohoo:

This has got ACC and National worried. Otherwise why had the ACC put the quarter page advert in the New Zealand Herald recently?

We need to keep up the pressure and have several steps of action lined up in advance.

At the moment, we have a lot of other road users on our side. Let's not destroy this. Perhaps some of our actions should involve those who want to protest with us but do not ride bikes? Some of us could go in disguise as car drivers, truck drivers etc. Then the government will have more trouble actually trying to single out motorbikes. Do you see where I am coming from?


nice ideas; like many, i also drive a tin top

some support in the form of cars and vans would provide bigger surfaces to stick banners on

this thread is coming along very well indeed

[idleidolidyll]

If there is enough on the slow ride that is easy to counter act... left lane goes a 60kph, right lane at 70kph

As the faster lane gets to the front you change lanes to the left lane and back to 60kph. when you are last bike on the left you slowly pull out to over take at 70kph

then no law is broken. For it to work though every one needs to play the part and would work better if there are a few hundred bikes doing it

aye, that'd probably work

[FastBikeGear]

Any protest that is designed to hinder or annoy Joe Public will destroy the very suport form tehm that we need.

If a time comes when we need to up the anti there are legal things that we can do that will hit ACC and not annoy the public.

And the time is not even ready for these kinds of actions yet!

[idleidolidyll]

it aint about the ACC; it's about the politicians behind the ACC changes

[Ixion]

Someone mentioned to me recently that the government doesn't really care much if ordinary people are inconvenienced, or their lives disrupted.

They do care very much if the operations of corporations, especially big multinational ones are disrupted.

And Joe Q doesn't really care all that much about corporations being disrupted.

And, if Joe Q's domestic harmoney is disrupted by someone, his reaction is to get pissed off and call on the government to "pass a law against it" - the boi-racers being a good example.

Whereas if corporations are disrupted, they look at the effect on their profits. If the cost of giving the disrupters what they want (especially if the cost is borne by the government) is less than the cost of disruption they will say "give them what they want". They are more pragmatic than Joe Q.

I do not condone that sort of thinking . It is quite wrong. Moreover it would , fortunately, probably be impossible to think of actions that would disrupt the activities of corporations (especially government owned ones)

[retro asian]

Help fight the ACC advertising campaign: forward the "ACC Lies to NZ" viral video (link in my signature) to everyone you know. Post it/share it on your Facebook/BeBo/Twitter/Myspace pages.... do whatever it takes to spread it around!

[candor]

Idea.

Switch the main theme of protest. Do not make it about bike charge hikes.

Make it about the broader issue of ACC becoming risk related as allowed for in the ACC amendment bill - a necessity to be passed current form before they can raise your charges, as I understand it. No wonder they're sitting under urgency with the biker blow torch under them.

Kiwis love the no fault thingy so make the ride against that bill. That is the headline - bikers fight shift to risk based premiums - a possible end to rugby and use of jap crap..., after all you all drive cars and trucks as well so you can be motorists representing us all, who just happen to be the first hit test case of motorcyclists.

[Ixion]

Idea.

Switch the main theme of protest. Do not make it about bike charge hikes.

Make it about the broader issue of ACC becoming risk related as allowed for in the ACC amendment bill - a necessity to be passed current form before they can raise your charges, as I understand it. No wonder they're sitting under urgency with the biker blow torch under them.




Nope. Amendment bill doesn't deal with levies. Theya re set entirely by Ministerial discretion (Well, cabinet also has to agree I think). But def no legislative changes needed.

We are morphing in the other changes a bit, and pushing the "Who's next" message.

(EDIT: There is an indirect connection though. The best avenue for levies containment (and Ministerial face saving) is the extension fo the funding of the tail from 2014 to 2019. That is part of the Bill.

So until the bill passes the Nickster can't really finalise the levies - he doesn't want to set them at the present high rate - I'm talking all levies here not just ours - and to set them at a lower rate based on the assumption that the extension will pass would be a risky thing.

But, he HAS to confirm the levies (all, not just motorcehicle) by March
)

[BMWST?]

it aint about the ACC; it's about the politicians behind the ACC changes

it is about ACC,the pollies will be mulling over the "problems" with ACC but the ideas will be coming from ACC

[terbang]

The squeaky wheel gets oiled. Or so they say. But only if it doesn't fall off by the way. We have so far made a lot of noise and the pollies (forget ACC, its the pollies) will be betting on us losing interest and momentum along the way. Its just human nature and after a while, people get on with their lives and their cause often fades into obscurity. If we fade away for a while, then yes we will have lost. They need to hear our screech as loud and as long as it takes to get what we want. And yes, I3 is right, embarrass them, piss them off and hurt them (or their mates) in the pocket. All within the law of course.
Now is not the time to be talking defeat...
Battles do cost money, so perhaps we should all put in a few bucks to help our cause. Worth the fight I reckon.

[candor]

it is about ACC,the pollies will be mulling over the "problems" with ACC but the ideas will be coming from ACC

Nope from independent advisors and whichever industry stakeholders are highly regarded enough to consult. A report on WHAT is causing the road safety blowout is due early next year - and they will have prepared projections based on same same policy impacts. Would equal a tripling of the motor vehicle liabilities in the next 5 years (repeating the last 5 years trend if they keep the speed and drunks quotas approach up).
http://www.dol.govt.nz/initiatives/workplace/acc/index.asp

Ixion - that legislation closely ties in from my reading - as it doesn't so much move to a fault basis but to a risk based one. On such a basis those 64 year old pre pensioners should be paying big ACC fees due to their frail bones.

[Coldrider]

Nope from independent advisors and whichever industry stakeholders are highly regarded enough to consult. A report on WHAT is causing the road safety blowout is due early next year - and they will have prepared projections based on same same policy impacts. Would equal a tripling of the motor vehicle liabilities in the next 5 years (repeating the last 5 years trend if they keep the speed and drunks quotas approach up).
http://www.dol.govt.nz/initiatives/workplace/acc/index.asp

Ixion - that legislation closely ties in from my reading - as it doesn't so much move to a fault basis but to a risk based one. On such a basis those 64 year old pre pensioners should be paying big ACC fees due to their frail bones.OI!, we'll be pensioners some day, and I'll be riding more than ever,
and pensioner motorists are more heavily subsidising others as they receive the pension anyway, and do not receive 80% of their lost income.