Screw peaceful non-disruptive protest: Let's Cause Mayhem!

[idleidolidyll]

Yes, I'm prepared to give peace a chance and I'll watch the news and listen to the radio plus read what the hard workers from BRONZ, Ulysseus etc have to say here about progress after the Bikoi. The Bikoi is next week and I reckon a fair period of grace for news of solid progress is about one week. We could even start with riders going to the Burt Munroe rally (like me)

I reckon we should start preparing for maximum disruption within the law right now.
I really don't believe the politicians will play ball bar a small discount off the 300% rise.

So sign up here, post your willingness to participate in legal disruption and we can be ready when it is needed.

I reckon a txt style flash mob would work best; that way the law can't prepare themselves for it. If you want to register in any region as a rider ready to take real action in a disruptive manner, send me a pm and I'll start organising things.

Also needed will be volunteers in areas other than mine. Given the size of Auckland, I'll do the lower half only so we'll need a volunteer to help organise Nth Auck as well as from all other areas of NZ.

Constructive comments and suggestions on the best way to surprise, organise, grab media attention are welcome.

Any off topic or stupid posts using personal attacks will be reported immediately to the mods for action. This is about the next stage if non disruptive action does not make headway not about BRONZ, Ulysseus or any individual so don't post personal attacks.

[Maha]

From what you said ealier in another thread...

'' I will happily help organise the 'spontaneous' flash mobs riding at say 70kph and blocking roads just like all those tin tops the cops never do anything about; only there will be way more of us''.

I really hope you do, god knows you have the gob for it, put it to good use and maybe someone will listen.

[Trudes]

So this is for about a week after the 17th if nothing comes of the Bikoi?
If so then, yeah, I'm in, providing I'm not at work and it won't endanger my life, my clean licence or my clean criminal record!

[Ixion]

The problem with this is that the response from the Nickster is unlikely to be a clear cut "Get fucked, the levies stay" , or "You're absolutely so right, I'm cancelling the increases and heading down to buy a GN250 for myself".

What we'll get is a waffely , evasive , "trust us ", sort of reply. And he doesn't need to release the figures until February.

And he has a very legitimate excuse to delay because of the 2014 to 2019 extension to the tail. So he can promise "Yes, I feel your pain. IF those Labour pricks will agree to the wonderful bill we have before parliament, the huge savings it will make should make it possible to make you happy" (fingers crossed behind back)

And if we get radical in the meantime that gives him an excuse to back out "We were prepared to listen to the bikers, and we did undertake to reduce the hikes, providing Labour did as we told them. But after this latest outrage all right thinking people blah blah"

So making the call of when to switch from rhetoric to physical is not a straight forward matter

[idleidolidyll]

that's the point, unless they see we are prepared to be disruptive, i don't believe they will really give us respect and the media will forget about us

we will have to make them talk turkey

[Laxi]

I'm for doing laps of MPs houses starting at say 11 and go until 5, louder the pipes the better

[Trudes]

Yip thats what the man says in the first paragraph, good on III for finally stepping up.

Just clarifying he doesn't mean the 18th, and nowhere does he say I won't be arrested.

[idleidolidyll]

From what you said ealier in another thread...

'' I will happily help organise the 'spontaneous' flash mobs riding at say 70kph and blocking roads just like all those tin tops the cops never do anything about; only there will be way more of us''.

I really hope you do, god knows you have the gob for it, put it to good use and maybe someone will listen.

Maha; you've met me. You must know I'm not afraid to speak my mind in public.
I stood up several times at the BRONZ meeting and succesfully got one of the softer motions altered and also at the Manukau meeting when I asked Goff if Labour would sweep the goddam roads etc.

BRONZ and Ulysseus only represent me as far as we agree, I'm not a member of any club. So given they DON'T represent me or other like minded riders who don't think peaceful non disruptive protest will get us anywhere; this is my way of organising what I belive (and obviously others believe) will get their attention.

If you're not at least PREPARED to play hardball, the softball approach is likely to fail.

[bogan]

but isnt the ultimate agenda to have fewer bikes on the road, if we piss everyone off, how is that going to help? Illegal acitivties get bikes taken off us.... look at the boy racers in christchurch, they are pissing everyone off, government knows nobody supports them so passes anti-boyracer laws, and now thier cars can be crushed.

How would bikers being disruptive be any different?

serious question btw, I'm open to any suggestions bout how we can oppose this law, but I dont see how this idea can work.

[SARGE]

but isnt the ultimate agenda to have fewer bikes on the road, if we piss everyone off, how is that going to help? Illegal acitivties get bikes taken off us.... look at the boy racers in christchurch, they are pissing everyone off, government knows nobody supports them so passes anti-boyracer laws, and now thier cars can be crushed.

How would bikers being disruptive be any different?

serious question btw, I'm open to any suggestions bout how we can oppose this law, but I dont see how this idea can work.





i prefer the term Winning Hearts and Minds :devil2:

[bogan]

i prefer the term Winning Hearts and Minds :devil2:

i thought you preferd to kick ass and take names, (note, taking names optional), isnt that the KB militia way? :bash:

[SARGE]

i thought you preferd to kick ass and take names, (note, taking names optional), isnt that the KB militia way? :bash:

"winning Hearts and Minds "


didnt you get the memo.???

said the term Runner has now been changed to Urban/Rural Gymkhana also

[StoneY]

I'm for doing laps of MPs houses starting at say 11 and go until 5, louder the pipes the better

My very LOUD GSXR1100 is in for these.
I can be disruptive, and I truly appreciate the schedule you have suggested

Yes to 1 week after the BIKEOI, I will be available - and willing to do Laps on National MPs houses

[Stormer]

The original "Winning of Hearts and Minds" scheme didn`t work too well in some parts of Vietnam.

"Charlie don`t surf!!" is now maybe "Charlie don`t ride!!":stoogie:

Whatever...we`ll see after 17 / 11.

[Shadows]

If so then, yeah, I'm in, providing I'm not at work and it won't endanger my life, my clean licence or my clean criminal record!

I'd love to know how to clean a criminal record.

Do you have any tips to share?

[idleidolidyll]

The problem with this is that the response from the Nickster is unlikely to be a clear cut "Get fucked, the levies stay" , or "You're absolutely so right, I'm cancelling the increases and heading down to buy a GN250 for myself".

The problem with the BRONZ softly softly approach is that by the time we find out we've been screwed over yet again, it will be too late to do anything to stop it.

We MUST organise NOW and be prepared to disrupt New Zealand in order to draw attention to this attack on motorcyclists by National and ACT.

Ixion, I've commented before that bugger all has come of the non disruptive protests so far organised: we STILL have cheesecutter, we STILL have loose metal all over the roads (more and more every year because the powers that be would rather charge US for the damage this does than get the road workers to clean it up), we STILL have our accidents recorded as "speed was a major factor" (when it was actually gravel from road worksetc) we STILL get ignored by Govt.

Perhaps it's just poor PR from the likes of BRONZ but in the 35 years I've been a licenced rider in NZ; the ONLY protest I've ever seen work for us was the DISRUPTIVE ACTION taken 30 years ago against the Auck CC re parking.

Has anyone started the NZ arm of MAG yet? If not then it's about bloody time.

[Sis]

I'm all for protesting at the next level But I don't want the NZ public against us. At the moment, we have the support of all NZers and ACC is finding their task much harder. They under estimated our opposition and the support from other road users. Let's keep the momentum going and with the support from the public!

[idleidolidyll]

but isnt the ultimate agenda to have fewer bikes on the road, if we piss everyone off, how is that going to help? Illegal acitivties get bikes taken off us.... look at the boy racers in christchurch, they are pissing everyone off, government knows nobody supports them so passes anti-boyracer laws, and now thier cars can be crushed.

How would bikers being disruptive be any different?

serious question btw, I'm open to any suggestions bout how we can oppose this law, but I dont see how this idea can work.

Go back and read the head message: I advocate LEGAL disruption not illegal action.

Did the Bus Drivers get anywhere until they took disruptive action? No, and history shows us that the media and government will ignore us unless we too make a stink over this.

[MIXONE]

My very LOUD GSXR1100 is in for these.
I can be disruptive, and I truly appreciate the schedule you have suggested

Yes to 1 week after the BIKEOI, I will be available - and willing to do Laps on National MPs houses

My old beema isn't the quietest bike around and I'll be happy to join you Stoney.

[BikerDazz]

Go back and read the head message: I advocate LEGAL disruption not illegal action.

Did the Bus Drivers get anywhere until they took disruptive action? No, and history shows us that the media and government will ignore us unless we too make a stink over this.

I'm all for legal disruptive action if the 'softly' approach doesn't work.
I think we do need maintain public support though, and I don't think it helps the cause when you've got riders in rallys looking 'menacing' in skull bandannas etc.

[idleidolidyll]

i prefer the term Winning Hearts and Minds :devil2:

No point winning the publics hearts and minds if the politicians and media ignore you anyway

[FROSTY]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.

[riffer]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.


Not in Wellington Tony. There's specific laws against bikes parking in the parking spots here.

[Mom]

I am sure there will be many that will be up for a reasonable bit of civil disobediance, I am not so sure I want to put my hand up in such a public way.

[idleidolidyll]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.

Yep, that WORKED 30 years ago.

Apparently Wgton CC have a bylaw prohibiting bikes from parking in pay and display areas (even though there is no signage saying so).

It's a good idea though: We don't even have to park for long.

Get up an hour early and ride into the cities and towns, park all bikes taking up whole spaces until rush hour is over and cars have driven round and round and round for an hour then pack up and go to work ourselves.

However, it will be vitally important to have printed material on the bikes telling people WHY this is happening or the protest will be useless.

Thanks for your input.

[Harvd]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.

Totally agree here, it works on many levels and could be so very entertaining...

[bogan]

Go back and read the head message: I advocate LEGAL disruption not illegal action.

Did the Bus Drivers get anywhere until they took disruptive action? No, and history shows us that the media and government will ignore us unless we too make a stink over this.

alright, i worded that poorly, but how will getting the public off side help us? The gubbermint seems to want bikes off the road, not the same with buses. I assume the idea is if we make enough problems we will get what we want simply to shut us up, like a kid throwing a tanty in paknsave? Im not convinced that it would work, gubbermint would see the public (lots of voters) now dislike bikers, and maybe take additional action against us.

Basically I see this type of action as a last throw of the dice, I'll be up for it when ALL other options are exhausted, but I just dont think we are there yet.

[idleidolidyll]

I'm all for legal disruptive action if the 'softly' approach doesn't work.
I think we do need maintain public support though, and I don't think it helps the cause when you've got riders in rallys looking 'menacing' in skull bandannas etc.

Yes, the aim will be to cause disruption in order to draw attention to our cause: NOT to intimidate or threaten other road users.

Safety is also a real concern and that will have to be addressed as well.

Thanks for your valuable and positive input

[YellowDog]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.
Absolute Genius.

I could do the Constellation Drive or Oteha Valley Road parks.

Have a lock and chain too.

[idleidolidyll]

Not in Wellington Tony. There's specific laws against bikes parking in the parking spots here.

Ya know Riffer, THAT is another little piece of anti bike legislation we need to make known and to protest

As long as they provide PLENTY of designated motorcycle parks in COBVENIENT areas; it isn't a problem but from what I've been reading, Wton CC is not playing fair.

good stuff tho, lets get all the injustices in the open not just the ACC levies

[pritch]

i prefer the term Winning Hearts and Minds :devil2:

I've heard that term before. Not sure it was all that successful then either?

[YellowDog]

Whilst Wellington is the Capital City, Auckland is the Commercial Capital and we could cause some serious disruption without too much effort.

[idleidolidyll]

alright, i worded that poorly, but how will getting the public off side help us? The gubbermint seems to want bikes off the road, not the same with buses. I assume the idea is if we make enough problems we will get what we want simply to shut us up, like a kid throwing a tanty in paknsave? Im not convinced that it would work, gubbermint would see the public (lots of voters) now dislike bikers, and maybe take additional action against us.

Basically I see this type of action as a last throw of the dice, I'll be up for it when ALL other options are exhausted, but I just dont think we are there yet.

All you have to do is consider any and all industrial action by unions etc for a long time: for the most part people UNDERSTAND that others are being ripped off and even though Bus strikes, Ferry strikes, Hikois etc ae disruptive; the public generally support them as long as the facts are made clear.

This actually ISN'T about Govt wanting to take bikes off the road: it's about Govt wanting to privatise ACC. To do that it will help enourmously if ACC fees are hiked so high that private insurance looks cheap by comparison.

The idea of disruptive action is NOT that they will give us what we want to shut us up; it is that the noise we make will bring media and the publics attention to the injustice of what they are doing.

Good constructive post though, keep it up

[idleidolidyll]

Absolute Genius.

I could do the Constellation Drive or Oteha Valley Road parks.

Have a lock and chain too.

A lock and chain would be wise.
I also reckon we will need to have somebody guarding our bikes from harm.

[idleidolidyll]

Whilst Wellington is the Capital City, Auckland is the Commercial Capital and we could cause some serious disruption without too much effort.

That's absolutely correct; with not many bikes at all, we can cause a LOT of disruption within the law.

[idleidolidyll]

wingrider: "If we want to piss anyone off then it needs to be those National MP's and any of their supportive MP's from other parties. Get onside with all the other groups to show support where applicable when they protest about changes that will affect them."

It IS a good idea to SPECIFICALLY target National and ACT MP's

[bogan]

All you have to do is consider any and all industrial action by unions etc for a long time: for the most part people UNDERSTAND that others are being ripped off and even though Bus strikes, Ferry strikes, Hikois etc ae disruptive; the public generally support them as long as the facts are made clear.

This actually ISN'T about Govt wanting to take bikes off the road: it's about Govt wanting to privatise ACC. To do that it will help enourmously if ACC fees are hiked so high that private insurance looks cheap by comparison.

The idea of disruptive action is NOT that they will give us what we want to shut us up; it is that the noise we make will bring media and the publics attention to the injustice of what they are doing.

Good constructive post though, keep it up

So in essence its quite like the bikeoi, only with a bit more bite. So kinda like, we tried it peacefully with the bikeoi, you ignored that so now we're getting angry!

We can see how the media likes the bikeoi and go from there I spose, as we probly wont get much of a reaction from the politicians.

[carver]

i prefer the term Winning Hearts and Minds :devil2:

well, your country's sucess rate with that is low

[idleidolidyll]

That's exactly what its about.

Tell everyone you know

[idleidolidyll]

ACC Protests? Rubbish! This is political! Screw National, Screw ACT
<hr style="color: rgb(13, 15, 15); background-color: rgb(13, 15, 15);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> If you allow the media and politicians to frame this as an ACC thing; you've already lost.

Ditto for trying to shift the debate to cyclists, pedestrians or rugby players.

This is a political decision driven by the NATIONAL and ACT parties. Aim your anger at these parties and you might get somewhere.
Aim at the ACC Corp and the best you'll probably get is slightly smaller increases than those suggested: the politicians will have manipulated you into accepting what they believe they will get anyway, 100-200% increases instead of 300% increases and you will be seen as 'grateful' for not being 'completely' screwed.

National and ACT are parties supported mainly by males and you all know that males dominate motorcycling in NZ.

Many of YOU probably voted for these bastards; it's YOUR responsibility to tell YOUR politicians that you are bloody angry and you will take your vote to Labour or the Greens who support ACC as it stands.

National played the public for suckers at the last election and won; tax cuts for the wealthy then tax rises for the rest of us and the selling of NZ's Govt sector to foreign interests. The ACC levies are a step on the road to the complete destruction of ACC; something National has always wanted and tried very hard to do last time they had power. YOU voted for them; YOU need to slap the bastards back into line.

Take action don't expect mere words to do it for you.

[CookMySock]

I wouldn't be leaving my bike unattended. If they want to ticket me, I will be gone like a robbers' dog.. a few parking spaces in the direction the parking warden came from.

We only need to park there for a couple of hours.

edit: What is being organised in the bay of plenty? I'm keen - I can be a real asshole when I feel like it.

Steve

[Trudes]

I'd love to know how to clean a criminal record.

Do you have any tips to share?

Be a good girl. (and just be sneaky enough not to get caught).

[325rocket]

as long as this is at least a week after bikeoi i'm in.

[caseye]

Ideli, I've told you before,I'm willing to take the next step, before all the noise has died down and the general public stop listening we do need to make sure it's sitting straight with them and the Govt.
Hitting National and ACT in the vote pocket and making sure people know why they can't park their cars close to their! place of work is good disruptive protest.
No worries here, I'm in.
Timing is the only thing, we need to make sure the ACC/Nationa;,ACT Agenda thing stays in the publics eye, we can't poke em in it!
The Pollies YES the General public, No.

[Flip]

Have you spoken to your local politician and let them know how you feel?

The goverment can make laws darn quickly to police any unwanted bad behaviour, ask your local boy racer whats thats like. Remember how everybody was scoffing when they held their protest drives.

I would suggest if ten thosand bikers all went to visit their local MPs all on the same day they would get the message PDQ. If you stuff up mr and mrs average kiwi who are just trying to do their jobs, you will just loose the support of the public and then well you are stuffed.

A very few bikers could stuff up a city for a day or so, but without public and media support which is the best thing you can have when dealing with those buggers in the beehive, you are going to, ok make a point, but then loose. The politicans have to do what the public and media mandate.

Visit your MP and tell him or her how you feel.

[idleidolidyll]

Yes,

like many I have made a submission and mailed my MP.

If the softly softly stuff doesn't work we either get tough or curl up and get screwed over.

I favour tough.

Yes, we DO have to make sure Mr and Mrs Joe and Joeline Public understand but they don't have to be behind us from the start: I believe the COVERAGE this is about will allow the moderates to repeatedly get the message across.
WE may not get a meeting with Nick or Johnny but we WILL bring attention to the debate.

Good valid argument tho, thanks

BTW: after only a couple of hours we have abt 10 starters in AKL via txt. This can work, tell your mates

[The Pastor]

well, your country's sucess rate with that is low
I knew america was full of idiots, but i didnt know they had bad hearts too

[The Pastor]

Yes,

like many I have made a submission and mailed my MP.

If the softly softly stuff doesn't work we either get tough or curl up and get screwed over.

I favour tough.

Yes, we DO have to make sure Mr and Mrs Joe and Joeline Public understand but they don't have to be behind us from the start: I believe the COVERAGE this is about will allow the moderates to repeatedly get the message across.
WE may not get a meeting with Nick or Johnny but we WILL bring attention to the debate.

Good valid argument tho, thanks
A thought that worries me - you and guns!

[idleidolidyll]

A thought that worries me - you and guns!

you'll be pleased to know then that i hate the damn things

i can use em but i'd rather nobody had em

[The Pastor]

you'll be pleased to know then that i hate the damn things

i can use em but i'd rather nobody had em
Bet you and chirs get on well then!

[Ixion]

..

Has anyone started the NZ arm of MAG yet? If not then it's about bloody time.

Yes. But you don't approach them , they approach you.

And probably not likely to approach anyone who's going to freak out at the 'illegal' tag.

[Swoop]

I'd love to know how to clean a criminal record.

Do you have any tips to share?
Hot wash, rinse, dry...
Or wait the 7(?) years until they get removed from record.

[idleidolidyll]

Bet you and chirs get on well then!

we do actually and he knows what i think

'cept i told him off a while ago and i haven't heard from him since (no, i will not divulge)

is his zooki going yet?

[Kiwi Graham]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.

This is a cool extreamly disruptive plan that I'd be ahppy taking part in. Take it a stage further and do it a couple of days at a time over a week or two, can you imigine the disruption.

[Flip]

Get tough with the politicans. You know they are well politicans, if they are not out kissing babies they are stealing candy from then. They understand the political landscape in NZ and want a job in 2 years time.

We need the media and the public support, it doesent really matter what the rats in the beehive think, they will do what ever the public want, but the public don't know what they want, they learn from the front page of the news paper if they can read or the 6pm news. What we don't need at this stage is to see some thing like "Bikers bring central city to a stand still. Public outraged", this would be a no win situation for us bikers. ACC is turning into a big public PR liability right now for this National goverment. Did you see the poor paraplegic on the TV tonight? Tuesday is going to be a great time to show the public just how unpopular the ACC changes are, by getting us on the news and the front page of the paper.

Right now the Nats and ACC are on the back foot, they are going to take another hit on Tuesday. It's a bit like a game of poker at the moment. ACC started with a very strong hand and started to blame us for some of their problems. Their media relations people have underestimated the media backlash and the public are somewhat on our side. The public support is the only way we are going to win this. Keep your poker face on for a while yet and we will win this war.

As I said visit your MP and politely but firmly tell them what you think of them and their ACC plans.

You can also move your bike along one space every hour to tie up a whole city centre tied up for ages. Do this only if we get screwed over count me in.

[idleidolidyll]

Yes. But you don't approach them , they approach you.

And probably not likely to approach anyone who's going to freak out at the 'illegal' tag.


freak out?

tsh tsh such an emotive term

i prefer 'controlled aggression'

don't get silly on us ixion, keep it civilised

btw: do ya really think i'd be upset not to get a call?

geez mate! i've made my position clear and bronz does NOT represent all motorcyclists in NZ

that is your way, this is ours

i'm not waiting until the week after it happens to get serious

[idleidolidyll]

Found this on another thread, some good ideas indeed

posted by jeffs:

I suggest we start by very slow riding in close circles around the bus depots, in such a way as it makes it impossible for buses to
get out. Hit the commuter, but not the one driving the car. This will have several effects. It show the people that we don't want to be in
our cars adding to the congestion. Getting us off our bikes, wont make us move to public transport. If you hold up the cars, people
may move to public transport, which is exactly one of their plans. Given the latest bus problems, such a thing would get good news cover

[Cr1MiNaL]

[/COLOR]


[COLOR=#ff8c00]If you're not at least PREPARED to play hardball, the softball approach is likely to fail.

Totally agree, if your not ready to take up arms all the threats of 6000 bikes showing up at Parliament etc are useless, so what one day of traffic jam = so many million dollars a year more, I'd take that hit if I were Nick.


but isnt the ultimate agenda to have fewer bikes on the road, if we piss everyone off, how is that going to help? Illegal acitivties get bikes taken off us.... look at the boy racers in christchurch, they are pissing everyone off, government knows nobody supports them so passes anti-boyracer laws, and now thier cars can be crushed.

How would bikers being disruptive be any different?

serious question btw, I'm open to any suggestions bout how we can oppose this law, but I dont see how this idea can work.

Boy racers are nothing like us. We don't go hooning wheelspinning down 50 km zones and built up areas and haven't got the negative publicity that the boy racers have. We are only peacefully riding and having to cough up $500 a year more because we choose to ride on 2 wheels. The stats are bull shit, and this whole thing won't really get passed if we play our cards right and are prepared to strike if the need arises.

A threat is only a bunch of useless words if you are not willing or able to do what you threaten to do.

There is a legal way of protesting and disrupting traffic and I am famous for finding outs in situations.

[ital916]

I'm starting to like the idea of disruptive yet legal action if nothing comes of the bikoi.

What I'm starting to see is bikers becoming frustrated, from no one giving a flying toss. It may seem to be only bikers here talking about it but its not. At work and around uni, when hanging with mates, I've passed the message. I reckon whilst the public may be on our side, they couldnt give a toss what happens.

Its human nature to only react to a situation when it affects us. The public arent being affected, thus they wont react. The politicians arent being affected, they wont react. The government is not being affected, they wont react.

If the bikoi heeds no productive or positive results then, I think the country has been given fair warning to our dissatisfaction to the treatment we have been given as a minority on the roads. I think the public should realise that motorcyclists nae a citizens good natured patience only goes so far. If in a few weeks, they turn round and go "why are you guys doing this", well they had a good while to see it coming. Im with idleiefnweilwlek however you spell it.

P.s I had a good laugh when you told goff to get the roads sweeped. The look on his face, well worth it.

[Cr1MiNaL]

This is a cool extreamly disruptive plan that I'd be ahppy taking part in. Take it a stage further and do it a couple of days at a time over a week or two, can you imigine the disruption.

Good idea, you want to listen to another legal way to protest?

Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".

Fuck em. Just do it!

[Flip]

Be really carefull about trying to block traffic on a bike. I know people who would if really pissed off just push through a group of bikes.

[Ixion]

Personally, I don't rule out anything.

It's worth trying the nice way first.

After that, I don't really see affirmative action succeeding if it has to be tied to 'legal'. Sort of fighting with one hand tied behind you.

I believe that other organisations committed to affirmative action are waiting until the definite announcement of the new rates. Then disruption (legal or not) can be justifed on the basis that the we asked nicely and got pissed on.

Of course I have never heard of any such organisations. Which don't actually exist.

If Mr Smith is decidedly negative the nice-and-legal protests might be a worthwhile gap filler until the hard lads kick in.

[idleidolidyll]

Good idea, you want to listen to another legal way to protest?

Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".

Fuck em. Just do it!

Some damn good ideas coming our way now

keep it all legal tho

[idleidolidyll]

Be really carefull about trying to block traffic on a bike. I know people who would if really pissed off just push through a group of bikes.

I agree

I thought about that from the start and have some ideas

not ready to post them here yet though; it might be better that those watching from the other side don't know our tactics

this is probably the kind of thing you'll get in your txt when the time is right

[idleidolidyll]

Personally, I don't rule out anything.

i'd already figured as much

It's worth trying the nice way first.

After that, I don't really see affirmative action succeeding if it has to be tied to 'legal'. Sort of fighting with one hand tied behind you.

it doesn't have to be illegal to cause mayhem so why go all the way at the next stage?
that might be an avenue someone else takes; say the MAGNZ people

I believe that other organisations committed to affirmative action are waiting until the definite announcement of the new rates. Then disruption (legal or not) can be justifed on the basis that the we asked nicely and got pissed on.

i reckon that will be far too late but i'll probably support all action in some way or other bar GBH

Of course I have never heard of any such organisations. Which don't actually exist.

shh! neither does the sis or the opal file

If Mr Smith is decidedly negative the nice-and-legal protests might be a worthwhile gap filler until the hard lads kick in.

yep, we'll wait but not for very long

[Flip]

I really like the idea of a park up around your local ACC ofices and a good old school noisy protest.

[idleidolidyll]

I'm starting to like the idea of disruptive yet legal action if nothing comes of the bikoi.

P.s I had a good laugh when you told goff to get the roads sweeped. The look on his face, well worth it.

good to have you onboard and thanks for the backslap

i had more i wanted to say to Goff but was cognisant of the organisers and didn't want to hijack the show

i actually walked up to Goff before the start and shook his hand
at least he paid us the respect of attending; national was nowhere

[idleidolidyll]

I really like the idea of a park up around your local ACC ofices and a good old school noisy protest.

ya see, disruptive action can also be fun

PR is first about getting attention; the message is useless without the audience

[FROSTY]

This is a cool extreamly disruptive plan that I'd be ahppy taking part in. Take it a stage further and do it a couple of days at a time over a week or two, can you imigine the disruption.
Actually I really think you lot aren't thinking this through are ya??
The point in doing this is to make sure the car driving public realise that if bikes are priced off the road that this loss of parking spaces will be PERMANANT as bikers are FORCED by government to drive cars.
The great nor western car park will be worse etc.
I'd even suggest that if the tickets in central wellington are"only" $40 then it would be well worth it to make the point loud and clear

[pzkpfw]

Found this on another thread, some good ideas indeed

posted by jeffs:

I suggest we start by very slow riding in close circles around the bus depots, in such a way as it makes it impossible for buses to
get out. Hit the commuter, but not the one driving the car. This will have several effects. It show the people that we don't want to be in
our cars adding to the congestion. Getting us off our bikes, wont make us move to public transport. If you hold up the cars, people
may move to public transport, which is exactly one of their plans. Given the latest bus problems, such a thing would get good news cover

I was thinking something similar the other day.

But it involved walking and use of pedestrian (zebra) crossings.

Same effect, but does not make the bikes so visible.

Dunno.

Either way, I'm in for some of what the OP suggested.


To keep people (targets) on the back foot organisation needs to be done out of public eye, SMS and SMTP (email). There's enough IT folk around to help with that stuff...

[idleidolidyll]

Actually I really think you lot aren't thinking this through are ya??
The point in doing this is to make sure the car driving public realise that if bikes are priced off the road that this loss of parking spaces will be PERMANANT as bikers are FORCED by government to drive cars.
The great nor western car park will be worse etc.
I'd even suggest that if the tickets in central wellington are"only" $40 then it would be well worth it to make the point loud and clear

Hey; EXCELLENT thinking frosty

The way to do this then: use a poster depicting the car you'll have to buy and park there when the levy hikes price bikes off the road

hang this from your bike as you block their space telling them its because of the ACC rises

more like this please, cheers mate

[Flip]

ya see, disruptive action can also be fun

PR is first about getting attention; the message is useless without the audience

I actually like the idea of it a lot, piss off any old school biker and see what happens, but at this stage it would not wise to piss of the public. Piss on the ACC anytime.

[Grahameeboy]

Peace be with you all

[idleidolidyll]

start small and threaten to escalate?

perhaps, we'll have to see what happens over the next week

i hope they're reading this thread in parliment

[Flip]

No, they have more important things to worry about. I honestly believe they have bitten off more than they can chew. The minister will not be happy with all the bad press at the moment.

[wysper]

A lock and chain would be wise.
I also reckon we will need to have somebody guarding our bikes from harm.

What if every biker stood by his/her bike for the duration of the protest.
Holding a sign explaining why they were there. We would be protecting our own, protecting each other and spreading a message.

And I think you are right about bringing cyclists, sports people into it. The political angle needs to be hammered too. Potentially we are a voting block thousands strong. If the issue is a vote winner/loser for us.



I reckon whilst the public may be on our side, they couldnt give a toss what happens.

Its human nature to only react to a situation when it affects us. The public arent being affected, thus they wont react. The politicians arent being affected, they wont react. The government is not being affected, they wont react.



THis is so true, the public may be on our side, but they are little help to us as their voices are silent on this issue.

Still, it may be better to have a silent majority on our side rather than a vocal majority against us at this stage.

Good thread though III, it is making me think what I would be prepared to do to fight this. How far I would be prepared to go. We all should think about that I reckon.

[idleidolidyll]

What if every biker stood by his/her bike for the duration of the protest.
Holding a sign explaining why they were there. We would be protecting our own, protecting each other and spreading a message.

Good idea. Some may have to go to work but others could do this for them. we wouldn't ALL need to be with the bikes and having friendly 'guards' with placards might help persuade others to join in.

And I think you are right about bringing cyclists, sports people into it. The political angle needs to be hammered too. Potentially we are a voting block thousands strong. If the issue is a vote winner/loser for us.

cyclists are just as abused by the shoddy road repairs as we are; sometimes more so

why blame them for getting hurt on our anti cycle/motorbike roads?
would YOU let your child or grandachild ride a cycle in Auckland? I wouldn't

THis is so true, the public may be on our side, but they are little help to us as their voices are silent on this issue.

Still, it may be better to have a silent majority on our side rather than a vocal majority against us at this stage.

Good thread though III, it is making me think what I would be prepared to do to fight this. How far I would be prepared to go. We all should think about that I reckon.

thanks for your thoughts

[idleidolidyll]

Damn, lost the link

twas 'sis' i think who said on another hread:

paraphrased: "we can bring cars and vans too, this would help with the public and banner space and the riding slowly taking up a lane thing"

[ManDownUnder]

One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.

Ditto - I think it's a GREAT idea - but be selective about it. I don't like the idea of impacting retailers... especially during a recession. They have kids to feed too

And likewise... make use of bus lanes. DOn't forget to exploit the anomaly about bus lanes and intersections.

Bikes are allowed to use bus lanes inside Auckland city but are NOT allowed to proceed at the green "B". Chinaman's hill in the city is RIPE for causing mayhem. Ride to the top, wait for the buses to bank up behind you, wait for the "B"... and SIT THERE

By law you have to wait for the green light to go on... and when it does, scoot through the intersection quicksmart. The lanes merge the bus lanes runs out, and cars then cut them off. Done it before - and it works a TREAT!

We're allowed to use public toilets too I understand. Imagine if we used them all at once!!!!!!

Not that'm advocating anything... much...

And don't forget to have cars towed if they park in bike parks... that's not on

[GOONR]

Ditto - I think it's a GREAT idea

And likewise... make use of bus lanes. DOn't forget to exploit the anomaly about bus lanes and intersections.

Bikes are allowed to use bus lanes inside Auckland city but are NOT allowed to proceed at the green "B". Chinaman's hill in the city is RIPE for causing mayhem. Ride to the top, wait for the buses to bank up behind you, wait for the "B"... and SIT THERE

By law you have to wait for the green light to go on... and when it does, scoot through the intersection quicksmart. The lanes merge the bus lanes runs out, and cars then cut them off. Done it before - and it works a TREAT!

Not that'm advocating anything... much...

And don't forget to have cars towed if they park in bike parks... that's not on


Auckland City Council seem to think you can go on the "B" light. linky here (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auckland/Transport/buses/lanes.asp)

EDIT: Doesn't mean you have to though. ;)

[ManDownUnder]

Be really carefull about trying to block traffic on a bike. I know people who would if really pissed off just push through a group of bikes.

We need a KBer in a land cruiser behind each lane of bikes then.

[ManDownUnder]

Auckland City Council seem to think you can go on the "B" light. linky here (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auckland/Transport/buses/lanes.asp)

EDIT: Doesn't mean you have to though. ;)

Need clarification on that because bus signals and intersections are controlled by Transit, and they say NO, or at least they used to.

Can anyone confirm?

[GOONR]

Need clarification on that because bus signals and intersections are controlled by Transit, and they say NO, or at least they used to.

Can anyone confirm?

Well I guess if there is any confusion, in this situation it would best to err on the side of caution and wait then aye!!

[retro asian]

The March for Democracy will be held at 1:30pm on Saturday 21 November in Queen Street and will be calling on the government to amend s59 of the Crimes Act so that the law does not treat light smacking for the purpose of correction as a criminal offence.

“This is now far greater than just the smacking issue. It’s an issue of democracy in New Zealand, and the dismissal of the views of an overwhelming majority of voters by our elected representatives,” says Mr McCoskrie.


They set 'em up....we knock 'em down...

[twotyred]

I agree

I thought about that from the start and have some ideas

not ready to post them here yet though; it might be better that those watching from the other side don't know our tactics

this is probably the kind of thing you'll get in your txt when the time is right

You know of course that "the other side" is going to get on your txt list...?

[caseye]

The March for Democracy will be held at 1:30pm on Saturday 21 November in Queen Street and will be calling on the government to amend s59 of the Crimes Act so that the law does not treat light smacking for the purpose of correction as a criminal offence.

“This is now far greater than just the smacking issue. It’s an issue of democracy in New Zealand, and the dismissal of the views of an overwhelming majority of voters by our elected representatives,” says Mr McCoskrie.


They set 'em up....we knock 'em down...

We are almost all parents of one sort/type or another this would have to be a very good thing to support and be seen supporting while riding our bikes in the thousands.
Remember, it' not about making smacking Legal, it's about allowing parents to be parents and use their own discretion as to what degree of punishment to use.Obviously assaulting your kids Is, Was and Always should be Illegal.

"Other side"??? Theres sides? We're right,aint we?Bugger em and God (cause he's all that would be standing between them and a very sore head) help em if they tried anything.

[TOTO]

So this is for about a week after the 17th if nothing comes of the Bikoi?
If so then, yeah, I'm in, providing I'm not at work and it won't endanger my life, my clean licence or my clean criminal record!

+1 on what she said

[idleidolidyll]

We need a KBer in a land cruiser behind each lane of bikes then.

I have a ssangyong; will that do?

I really like where this thread is going, there are some excellent ideas for legal mahem out there

[idleidolidyll]

You know of course that "the other side" is going to get on your txt list...?

yeah, you're probably right and that's another reason txt works: no specific plans announced until the meet in each region

by then it will be too late

i fully expect mr plod to send me their txt #

i've done this before

[idleidolidyll]

Auckland City Council seem to think you can go on the "B" light. linky here (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auckland/Transport/buses/lanes.asp)

EDIT: Doesn't mean you have to though. ;)

given the bus drivers have just been on strike; i think they'd be on our side even if we did hold them up

the right banners and attitude will do it

[Squid69]

Yes, I'm prepared to give peace a chance and I'll watch the news and listen to the radio plus read what the hard workers from BRONZ, Ulysseus etc have to say here about progress after the Bikoi. The Bikoi is next week and I reckon a fair period of grace for news of solid progress is about one week. We could even start with riders going to the Burt Munroe rally (like me)

I reckon we should start preparing for maximum disruption within the law right now.
I really don't believe the politicians will play ball bar a small discount off the 300% rise.

So sign up here, post your willingness to participate in legal disruption and we can be ready when it is needed.

I reckon a txt style flash mob would work best; that way the law can't prepare themselves for it. If you want to register in any region as a rider ready to take real action in a disruptive manner, send me a pm and I'll start organising things.

Also needed will be volunteers in areas other than mine. Given the size of Auckland, I'll do the lower half only so we'll need a volunteer to help organise Nth Auck as well as from all other areas of NZ.

Constructive comments and suggestions on the best way to surprise, organise, grab media attention are welcome.

Any off topic or stupid posts using personal attacks will be reported immediately to the mods for action. This is about the next stage if non disruptive action does not make headway not about BRONZ, Ulysseus or any individual so don't post personal attacks.

Im keen for a riot!

:bash: the system

[Conquiztador]

I'm in.

But I am not so much in favour of disrupting Joe Citizen's life.

A few ideas from top of my head:

- A few bikers outside ACT/Maori Party/National MP's offices in their home towns with a BIG sign at the street saying something like:
"This is the office of Xxx Xxxxxx. Honk your horn if you agree that they are fucking up ACC". Does not matter if he/she is not there. It will affect their staff.

- Be at every public appearance the MP has in his/her electorate giving out information re what he/she is doing to ACC. Have a handful of bikers there in their gear.

- Be at every get-to-gether that these parties hold. Have a big bunch of bikers outside for the whole meeting. (They all have webpages and it is not tricky to suss out when and where they are gathering)

- Follow the MP's car by bike. Have someone on a bike there all the time.

- At every bike meet/race meet/rally/Toy run etc. talk over the PA system for a minute or so. Tell everyone NOT to vote for the parties that are screwing up ACC.

- Keep on sending letters to the editors of local newspapers with different angles on the issue. Get them publicised in the "Letters to the Editor" section.

- A daily presence outside parlament of a doz or so bikers. Just to make them know that we are there...

I do like the idea of taking the parking spots and having a sign on each bike stating that if they price the bikes out, then we will drive cars and we will need these parking spots. Imagine doing that in some of the parking houses/lots and filling them with bikes...

-

[apes]

i agree with your sentiments bro but to start off with it's got to be legal disruption, like mass slow rides on main motorways in the rush hour, one city per day, and a mass ride past government on a day some major bill is being discussed, something that generally inconvieniances everyone is well advertised before hand so those in the tin can and those driving trucks realise these levies could hit them next. You let BRONZ talk the rhetoric and keep this up until the politicians start listening to you and they will if you start effecting the economy on a weekly basis. Whereas if you are just out to stick up 2 fingers to them they'll just swat you like a fly. The important thing is you need to make the public know why you're pissing them off so then they and the press know to point the finger at the politicians and not the bikers.

[CookMySock]

Doesn't ACC usually have large parking buildings? A pack of ten or twenty noisy vtwins or inline fours will fucking devastating inside there.

Why not ride around inside the parking buildings while while staff are coming or going from work? Don't do anything intimidating - you won't need to. Just ride your noisy intimidating bike around and don't eye contact anyone - nothing illegal about that.

edit: They will call the cops before we can leave the building for sure, so make real sure you are squeaky clean. It will fuck the cops off too, coz it will take them an hour to check 20 bikes + bikers over, only to discover theres nothing they can zap them for. Suggest we take some lawyer-type with the group, as he can advise us legally when stopped by the fuzz - that will eff them off even more.

Steve

[CookMySock]

Do larger ACC offices have a cafeteria that is open to the public? Why not drop in for lunch about 20 mins before their lunch time, and buy all their pies and quiches. I don't normally go for quiche, but I'd make an exception in this case. :killingme

Theres got to be loads more disruptive shit we can do that's 100% legal.

Steve

[bogan]

I'm in.

But I am not so much in favour of disrupting Joe Citizen's life.

A few ideas from top of my head:

- A few bikers outside ACT/Maori Party/National MP's offices in their home towns with a BIG sign at the street saying something like:
"This is the office of Xxx Xxxxxx. Honk your horn if you agree that they are fucking up ACC". Does not matter if he/she is not there. It will affect their staff.

- Be at every public appearance the MP has in his/her electorate giving out information re what he/she is doing to ACC. Have a handful of bikers there in their gear.

- Be at every get-to-gether that these parties hold. Have a big bunch of bikers outside for the whole meeting. (They all have webpages and it is not tricky to suss out when and where they are gathering)

- Follow the MP's car by bike. Have someone on a bike there all the time.

- At every bike meet/race meet/rally/Toy run etc. talk over the PA system for a minute or so. Tell everyone NOT to vote for the parties that are screwing up ACC.

- Keep on sending letters to the editors of local newspapers with different angles on the issue. Get them publicised in the "Letters to the Editor" section.

- A daily presence outside parlament of a doz or so bikers. Just to make them know that we are there...

I do like the idea of taking the parking spots and having a sign on each bike stating that if they price the bikes out, then we will drive cars and we will need these parking spots. Imagine doing that in some of the parking houses/lots and filling them with bikes...

-

all excellent ideas, specially like the honk outside MP offices, and if its a slow day the protester biker could also get on the horn a bit!

[Kiwi Graham]

How about checking John Keys movements, meeting him and giving him 'outriders' to his destinations. Wherever he goes the media follows!

[CookMySock]

How about checking John Keys movements, meeting him and giving him 'outriders' to his destinations. Wherever he goes the media follows!On the face of it, not an illegal activity, but remind yourself this is the prime minister, and my guess is people in black vans will take issue with you. Would be fun to try once perhaps, but I think you would be accosted and questioned. Might be different if it was Nick Smith.

edit: you might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.

Steve

[Sidewinder]

fucking aye bro im so keen with this idea! was thinking about doing a burn out with a pocket bike on the roof of acc in te rapa hamilton, but my work lader wasnt big enough lol

[idleidolidyll]

I'm in.

But I am not so much in favour of disrupting Joe Citizen's life.

A few ideas from top of my head:

- A few bikers outside ACT/Maori Party/National MP's offices in their home towns with a BIG sign at the street saying something like:
"This is the office of Xxx Xxxxxx. Honk your horn if you agree that they are fucking up ACC". Does not matter if he/she is not there. It will affect their staff.

- Be at every public appearance the MP has in his/her electorate giving out information re what he/she is doing to ACC. Have a handful of bikers there in their gear.

- Be at every get-to-gether that these parties hold. Have a big bunch of bikers outside for the whole meeting. (They all have webpages and it is not tricky to suss out when and where they are gathering)

- Follow the MP's car by bike. Have someone on a bike there all the time.

- At every bike meet/race meet/rally/Toy run etc. talk over the PA system for a minute or so. Tell everyone NOT to vote for the parties that are screwing up ACC.

- Keep on sending letters to the editors of local newspapers with different angles on the issue. Get them publicised in the "Letters to the Editor" section.

- A daily presence outside parlament of a doz or so bikers. Just to make them know that we are there...

I do like the idea of taking the parking spots and having a sign on each bike stating that if they price the bikes out, then we will drive cars and we will need these parking spots. Imagine doing that in some of the parking houses/lots and filling them with bikes...

-

Some good ideas in there; targetting politicians directly is worthwhile: I'll get a list of their office addresses and link it here.

[idleidolidyll]

i agree with your sentiments bro but to start off with it's got to be legal disruption, like mass slow rides on main motorways in the rush hour, one city per day, and a mass ride past government on a day some major bill is being discussed, something that generally inconvieniances everyone is well advertised before hand so those in the tin can and those driving trucks realise these levies could hit them next. You let BRONZ talk the rhetoric and keep this up until the politicians start listening to you and they will if you start effecting the economy on a weekly basis. Whereas if you are just out to stick up 2 fingers to them they'll just swat you like a fly. The important thing is you need to make the public know why you're pissing them off so then they and the press know to point the finger at the politicians and not the bikers.

Yes, that's the idea: cause a bit or a lot of mahem and for the most part, let the moderates do the talking

Mind you, as I've said before, some of the BRONZ message is wrong; more focus on the fact that this is National ACT policy not ACC initiated etc

Given the slightly different message; we may need to talk directly to media but wld refrain from too much of that

[idleidolidyll]

Doesn't ACC usually have large parking buildings? A pack of ten or twenty noisy vtwins or inline fours will fucking devastating inside there.

Why not ride around inside the parking buildings while while staff are coming or going from work? Don't do anything intimidating - you won't need to. Just ride your noisy intimidating bike around and don't eye contact anyone - nothing illegal about that.

My Akra fitted KTM motard sets off every car alarm in a parking building: good idea

edit: They will call the cops before we can leave the building for sure, so make real sure you are squeaky clean. It will fuck the cops off too, coz it will take them an hour to check 20 bikes + bikers over, only to discover theres nothing they can zap them for. Suggest we take some lawyer-type with the group, as he can advise us legally when stopped by the fuzz - that will eff them off even more.

Steve

I wonder if there is some kind of trespass order they can serve? No matter, they would probably only be able to issue a warning

[Pixie]

This actually ISN'T about Govt wanting to take bikes off the road:

Actually,I believe there is a component wishing to see fewer bikes.

We are a problem for ACC,both in costs and in making ACC attractive to potential buyers.

The Road Toll Fanatics would like to see us go away-they aren't going to achieve the "zero road toll by 2020" target with us around.They may legislate for all cars to be robotic,but no manufacturer is working on robotic bikes.
With no bikes around they can continue to build cheap,unsafe roads.

[idleidolidyll]

Actually,I believe there is a component wishing to see fewer bikes.

We are a problem for ACC,both in costs and in making ACC attractive to potential buyers.

The Road Toll Fanatics would like to see us go away-they aren't going to achieve the "zero road toll by 2020" target with us around.They may legislate for all cars to be robotic,but no manufacturer is working on robotic bikes.
With no bikes around they can continue to build cheap,unsafe roads.

It's true that National has always been pretty much anti bike. However, as you note here, that motivation is driven by money and ignorance. However, the roads are easily as unsafe for bicycles as they are for motorbikes and eliminating cycles is impossible.

NZ roads are oh so obviously designed ONLY for cars and trucks and if they ever think of us, it is to think of ways to get rid of us.

I'll summarise the thread and ideas perhaps tomorrow so we can all see the ideas and key comments in one post

[CookMySock]

I wonder if there is some kind of trespass order they can serve? No matter, they would probably only be able to issue a warningWell this is why we take a legal-type person with us.

My understanding is its a public place, and while its a public place trespass orders cannot be issued. In any case it does not matter, since they cannot detain you for any more time than it takes to positively identify you from your drivers license and they must either release you or arrest you, and then they are welcome to go back to their office and on their own time do any paperwork they think they can make stick in court. We could easily be back there two or three times before they get an order prepared.

Of course, "my understanding" is little or no use to the group doing it, who will need proper legal support.

Steve

[bogan]

On the face of it, not an illegal activity, but remind yourself this is the prime minister, and my guess is people in black vans will take issue with you. Would be fun to try once perhaps, but I think you would be accosted and questioned. Might be different if it was Nick Smith.

edit: you might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.

Steve

cud hold a few signs etc to the effect of, 134 days to go, timed for an action the week before election. Even if we dont do something huge (though we would) it'll put bit lot of fear into the politicians wondering what we would do!

[st00ji]

its all very well to talk about not pissing off the public etc. but if the peaceful approach fails, it comes down to what have we got to lose?

im keen to get involved!

remember blocking the motorway during rush hour is going to be largely ineffective as its blocked anyway, in auckland at least

and only the front few rows of cars will even know its bikes doing it - everyone behind them will just think theres been an accident or something.

[FROSTY]

Ditto - I think it's a GREAT idea - but be selective about it. I don't like the idea of impacting retailers... especially during a recession. They have kids to feed too
I see it a bit different mate. If bikers are forced off their bikes then the disruption will be permamant.
Make it clear as suggested in banners --depicting what you will be driving if forced off your bike and THIS will happen every day

[Subike]

Be really carefull about trying to block traffic on a bike. I know people who would if really pissed off just push through a group of bikes.

I know a few lads who ride rather large trikes.
they are on our side even if their rides are registgered as cars.
put these trikes at the back of any mob, and then let any pissed off driver try to push trough .
a trike as the tail end charle on any group ride always will add to the saftey factor,
Apart from taking up the whole lane as a cages does,
they are rather intimidating to the average joe citizen.
so if any post BIKEOI is taken in the form of group rides,
try and have one or two big trikes at the rear.
Most trike riders dont mind being at the rear either, so co-opersation from them should be easy to arrange.

[Trudes]

Sounds like I'm going to need to get a louder horn! I wonder if Str8 Jacket still has the airhorn she used to have on her bike? Maybe I could borrow it.;)

[Sidewinder]

Sounds like I'm going to need to get a louder horn! I wonder if Str8 Jacket still has the airhorn she used to have on her bike? Maybe I could borrow it.;)

dont ytou blow your own horn enough as it is?

[Bassmatt]

Im near Tauranga and keen as to be involved. Dont mind moving to illegal disruption if the legal stuff has no effect. :Punk:
Fuck the Nats

[Hinny]

... so what one day of traffic jam = so many million dollars a year more, I'd take that hit if I were Nick.

You're not suggesting Nick Smith is doing this for personal gain are you?

I think he is a quintessential Tory. Is convinced private enterprise can do it better. The fact that it never seems to deliver on promised fortune does little to assuage this conviction.

[Trudes]

dont ytou blow your own horn enough as it is?
well someone has to! Beep beep.

[Sidewinder]

well someone has to! Beep beep.

haha tell me about it, one day you will be as good as me at it lol

[pzkpfw]

I believe pedestrians have right of way where driveways cross footpaths.

Could a steady stream of walking bikers prevent ACC staff get to work? MP's get into their office/home?

----

Visiting dignitaries get police escort from the Airport to parliament, but surely there'd be ways to embarass the Government next time some bigwig visits (without the diplomatic protection squad shooting someone, or more importantly, me).

[ital916]

I believe pedestrians have right of way where driveways cross footpaths.

Could a steady stream of walking bikers prevent ACC staff get to work? MP's get into their office/home?

----

Visiting dignitaries get police escort from the Airport to parliament, but surely there'd be ways to embarass the Government next time some bigwig visits (without the diplomatic protection squad shooting someone, or more importantly, me).

I knew playing lemmings as a kid would help at some point in my life!

[GOONR]

I knew playing lemmings as a kid would help at some point in my life!

Ferk that's a blast from the past, cool game in it's day though!

[SARGE]

buy all their pies and quiches. I don't normally go for quiche, but I'd make an exception in this case.


no one said ya had to EAT the Pies and Quiches .. i understand the NZ pie has decent aerodynamics..

[Fatjim]

The good news is that on monday most the children in here will be back at school.

[Mr Merde]

A few years back when living in the UK they decided that bikes were to pay a toll on one of the tunnels on the M25.

Bikers objected and thousands of them turned up at the toll booths. All dressed in wet weather gear, all with 10 pound notes. They dutifuly queued at the said toll booths. Each biker pulled up, got off their bike, took off their wet weather gear, took out their money from an pants pocket and dutifully waited for their change. They then counted the change, got back into their wet weather gear, back on the bike and rode off. This process was repeated by the next bike rider.

The M25 came to a standstill and London choked. They ran out of change at the toll botths and had to get more delivered by armoured car and the bike rider wouldnt leave till they had their change.

The next day there were no tolls for motorcycles.

They tried again on the Servern bridge and the same thing happened there. Again the next day there were no tolls for bikes.

The police and the authorities couldnt do anything as every biker was following the letter of the law.

If you have ever seen a city od 10 million gridlocked then you would realise how much a little bit of

CIVIL OBEDIENCE

can be a very powerful tool.

[Laxi]

dont ytou blow your own horn enough as it is?

haha and thought it was only you that was that flexible:sick:

[CookMySock]

no one said ya had to EAT the Pies and Quiches .. i understand the NZ pie has decent aerodynamics..Hell yes! :eek:

Well we can throw the quiche and eat the pies, and use up all their worcester sauce too..

Steve

[SARGE]

Hell yes! :eek:

Well we can throw the quiche and eat the pies, and use up all their worcester sauce too..

Steve

and then take a big Mince Pie shit right on the floor on the way out ...

[Pixie]

Sounds like I'm going to need to get a louder horn! I wonder if Str8 Jacket still has the airhorn she used to have on her bike? Maybe I could borrow it.;)

Get one of Klingon's hooters and hold it in your mouth as you ride.
(I mean the plastic ones she was selling at the domain,you dirty bastards)

[Pixie]

A few years back when living in the UK they decided that bikes were to pay a toll on one of the tunnels on the M25.

Bikers objected and thousands of them turned up at the toll booths. All dressed in wet weather gear, all with 10 pound notes. They dutifuly queued at the said toll booths. Each biker pulled up, got off their bike, took off their wet weather gear, took out their money from an pants pocket and dutifully waited for their change. They then counted the change, got back into their wet weather gear, back on the bike and rode off. This process was repeated by the next bike rider.

The M25 came to a standstill and London choked. They ran out of change at the toll botths and had to get more delivered by armoured car and the bike rider wouldnt leave till they had their change.

The next day there were no tolls for motorcycles.

They tried again on the Servern bridge and the same thing happened there. Again the next day there were no tolls for bikes.

The police and the authorities couldnt do anything as every biker was following the letter of the law.

If you have ever seen a city od 10 million gridlocked then you would realise how much a little bit of

CIVIL OBEDIENCE

can be a very powerful tool.

This is the kind of action we need to take.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Get one of Klingon's hooters and hold it in your mouth as you ride.
(I mean the plastic ones she was selling at the domain,you dirty bastards)

I'll hold a hooter in my mouth and ride.

Oh and keen for other sorts of protests too...

[Molly]

[COLOR=darkorange][B]I reckon we should start preparing for maximum disruption within the law right now.

Just my 2c and it's not meant as a personal attack:

I don't know why anybody would think they had the right to disrupt / delay and generally piss-off other road users. You'll just do what 1% of every interest group does - f'k things up for the other 99%.

That's my feeling on the subject.

As an aside, I just checked and the plate: FKACC 'cannot be released for sale'... Bugger.

[idleidolidyll]

No offence taken; it's a perfctly valid question:


If the Govt won't talk about it in public and the media leads with a "motorcycle accident" story on headfline news instead of focusing on the protest (Saturday in the Auck Domain); we have to make the public ask the questions with us.

Without mass media, mass disruption is sometimes the only way forward in such a short time frame.

[caseye]

That is the simple truth of the matter we've been screwed for time and we'll be standing around with our fingers up our collective arseholes while the Govt takes our cash.
Molly are you just a little bit pissed off at the govt for getting the ACC to propose these changes?
Well, what are you doing about it?
I know you've ridden with the rest of us and you've sent in your submissions.
Now what?
if we are not listened to at all, if these changes are to go ahead, what would you do next?
I know what I'm doing.
I'm geting my wet weather gear out and my big old ten dollar note and going to a toll road!
Then I'm going to ride my motorcycle into town in the early morning and park in quite legally in a car @#$$%% Park.And leave it there all day, Quite legal, long as i fill the meter.
These things don't hurt people, it does make em ask why? and once that question is asked we have a chance to calmly and rationally explain ourselves.
Do it often enough and a huge ground swell of pissed off but enlightened general publics will front Govt on our behalf and tell em to sort this shit out.
That of course is the long version, short one, we start this sort of action outside Parliament and every other govt agency we can find, we make it target specific and we do it all the time and the Govt will quickly back off.
But first we must all be united in our own minds and be prepared to cause some shit, that will be noticed and that will be listened to.

[idleidolidyll]

I have most of a roll of outdoor polypropylene at home and will print up some A3 banners for your bikes.

This is my own cost so only the remains of this roll please.

I'm a photographer but not a graphic artist. Can someone give me a design using these themes:

Remember, A3 only please or fit as many inside an A3 format as you can (ie: bumper sticker size).

--National and ACT Policy: Destroy then privatise ACC
--Justify increases with manipulated policy and statistics
--Target Motorcycles FIRST, then cars, bicycles, rugby, horse riding, climbing etc etc

Use this text (or paraphrase it) for a poster when you take up a car park bay:

"If levies rise, I'll have to drive my car and use this space EVERY day".

Use this one for your car window when you drive slowly holding up traffic:

"If ACC rates were fair; I'd be riding my motorcycle instead of blocking your way"

More ideas please and i'll post these to regional organisers to distribute.

[Voltaire]

That is the simple truth of the matter we've been screwed for time and we'll be standing around with our fingers up our collective arseholes while the Govt takes our cash.
Molly are you just a little bit pissed off at the govt for getting the ACC to propose these changes?
Well, what are you doing about it?
I know you've ridden with the rest of us and you've sent in your submissions.
Now what?
if we are not listened to at all, if these changes are to go ahead, what would you do next?
I know what I'm doing.
I'm geting my wet weather gear out and my big old ten dollar note and going to a toll road!
Then I'm going to ride my motorcycle into town in the early morning and park in quite legally in a car @#$$%% Park.And leave it there all day, Quite legal, long as i fill the meter.
These things don't hurt people, it does make em ask why? and once that question is asked we have a chance to calmly and rationally explain ourselves.
Do it often enough and a huge ground swell of pissed off but enlightened general publics will front Govt on our behalf and tell em to sort this shit out.
That of course is the long version, short one, we start this sort of action outside Parliament and every other govt agency we can find, we make it target specific and we do it all the time and the Govt will quickly back off.
But first we must all be united in our own minds and be prepared to cause some shit, that will be noticed and that will be listened to.


You can park a bike in a metered space in Welly....but they have a by-law saying motorcycles can't park in Pay and Display as there is nowhere to put the receipt/ticket.....
I would imagine the WCC Traffic Wardens are standing by with fresh ticket books...I mean PDA'a.

[idleidolidyll]

Lets see then;

Wellington might take a bit more but its also worth fighting THAT nasty regualtion at the same time:

It might take a while but instead of parking and getting off your scooters and bikes, you could stop in the space to "read a map", "answer the phone", "adjust your underwear", put on or take off a piece of clothing etc, any excuse to STOP, not park, in those spaces.
When a parking nazi asks you to move on, you WILL move on: to that space up ahead where the other bike is stopped and if a bunch of you do this when people are trying to park, you'll achieve the aims.

This would work best if there are more bikes than spaces in a selected area; that way the extra bikes could leap into the space quickly.


Remember though: There is no point doing this if people don't know why. Have a sign on your back or stuck to your bike.
If media asks questions; tell them this is because THEY, the media and Govt, are not giving us a fair voice.

[idleidolidyll]

Here's another I just thought of:

"I'm driving this slow because I need to use as little fuel in my car as my motorbike used before ACC levies priced it off the road"

"Sorry to hold you up, I've sold my motorbike to avoid the rush after National raises ACC levies and bikers can't afford them"

Motorbike: 4.5 litres per 100km
Car: 10 litres per 100km

I can't drive faster: I'm saving fuel and National / ACT made my motorbike too expensive to keep

[Azi Dahaka]

That is the simple truth of the matter we've been screwed for time and we'll be standing around with our fingers up our collective arseholes while the Govt takes our cash.
Molly are you just a little bit pissed off at the govt for getting the ACC to propose these changes?
Well, what are you doing about it?
I know you've ridden with the rest of us and you've sent in your submissions.
Now what?
if we are not listened to at all, if these changes are to go ahead, what would you do next?
I know what I'm doing.
I'm geting my wet weather gear out and my big old ten dollar note and going to a toll road!
Then I'm going to ride my motorcycle into town in the early morning and park in quite legally in a car @#$$%% Park.And leave it there all day, Quite legal, long as i fill the meter.
These things don't hurt people, it does make em ask why? and once that question is asked we have a chance to calmly and rationally explain ourselves.
Do it often enough and a huge ground swell of pissed off but enlightened general publics will front Govt on our behalf and tell em to sort this shit out.
That of course is the long version, short one, we start this sort of action outside Parliament and every other govt agency we can find, we make it target specific and we do it all the time and the Govt will quickly back off.
But first we must all be united in our own minds and be prepared to cause some shit, that will be noticed and that will be listened to.

read your citys bylaws i noted in wellignton city it is actually against the law to park your motorbike in a car parking spot in a metered area

wellington traffic bylaw
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/bylaws/traffic.html
6.5 No person shall park a motorcycle in any parking meter area controlled by a multiple parking meter, other than in any part specifically set aside for motorcycles.

[Bald Eagle]

read your citys bylaws i noted in wellignton city it is actually against the law to park your motorbike in a car parking spot in a metered area

wellington traffic bylaw
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/bylaws/traffic.html
6.5 No person shall park a motorcycle in any parking meter area controlled by a multiple parking meter, other than in any part specifically set aside for motorcycles.

Regular meters are ok , it's only the pay and display that are no go cos theres nowhere on a bike to put the pay/display receipt.

[avgas]

How about checking John Keys movements, meeting him and giving him 'outriders' to his destinations. Wherever he goes the media follows!

Nah we just need to take him for a blat in a sidecar.
Anyone got a Ural I can borrow?

[peasea]

and history shows us that the media and government will ignore us unless we too make a stink over this.

What are you suggesting? We all eat a fierce curry and down several pints of black beer before heading to parliament?

Gotta say 3I, I'm with you on this. Give it a wee bit of time, see what the immediate response to tomorrows effort is and if changes aren't proposed by Nick The Prick, then I'm up for some kind of 'legal action'.

The bastard is my MP and all I have had in response to my communications with him is ONE computer-generated, hollow, meaningless pile of vomit.:2guns:

Surely we could get some rocket launchers, APC's, mortars and grenades from somewhere???:eek:

[idleidolidyll]

Lets hope BRONZ point out that if their way doesn't work; the government and people of NZ can "look forward to" a far more annoying escalation of protests.

[DidJit]

Have y'all seen this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=112643) thread yet?

As mentioned, there are some interesting parallels so perhaps it's something to keep an eye on. See what works most effectively.

[idleidolidyll]

Thanks but I'm finding my Hebrew is a little rusty: I've forgotten everything I never learned in High School.

kidding

Yes, ideas from anywhere: anything to cause the most disruption within the law

[peasea]

So blowing up Nick's house is out then.

Bugger......plan B?.....umm.

[vega]

Bikers really need to pull together on this or we will be forgotten. How about disrupting shopping malls. Three hundred bikers all taking a carpark will grab attention. Not sure if that will win hearts tho?

[idleidolidyll]

As I have said from the beginning; he stated outright that some rises are inevitable.

This obviously means he knew we would not accept 300% increases and 100-200% increases will be on the cards.

I will settle for nothing less than NO increases beyond those that cars pay and I reckon we need NOT wait at all to start disrupting New Zealand.

In fact we should start disrupting all National Party members and ACT members ASAP;
block their driveways, block all parks around their offices, ride at 40kph in suburbs and 70kph on the open road.

The time has come!

[sl8er4lyf]

Okay so i'm in Auckland, and frankly i live to do this sorta shit to the bastards like Nick and Key, so lets sort it.

Best things to do to disrupt Auckland is a citywide block off at rush hour, whether its all main ways into city center or just a block off of queen; we need to make them see that we are no minority

[pete376403]

The bastard is my MP and all I have had in response to my communications with him is ONE computer-generated, hollow, meaningless pile of vomit.:2guns::

Out of interest - what is Smiths majority, ie how many votes did he win the seat by?

[riffer]

Out of interest - what is Smiths majority, ie how many votes did he win the seat by?

<table class="eletext" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th class="orhdg">Electorate Number:</th><td class="orhdg">29</td><td class="orhdg"> </td><th class="orhdg">Final:</th><td class="orhdg" colspan="2">Yes</td></tr> <tr><th class="orhdg">Polling Places Counted:</th><td class="orhdg"> 36 of 36 (100.0%) </td><td class="orhdg"> </td><th class="orhdg">Votes Counted:</th><td class="orhdg" colspan="2"> 36,335</td></tr> <tr><th class="orhdg">Winning Candidate:</th><td class="orhdg">SMITH, Nick (NAT)</td><td class="orhdg"> </td><th class="orhdg">Majority:</th><td class="orhdg" colspan="2">8,471</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="6" class="orhdg" height="20"> </td></tr> <tr class="headrowL"><th colspan="2" class="headrowL">Parties</th><th class="headrowL"> </th><th colspan="3" class="headrowL">Candidates</th></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>United Future</td><td align="right"> 387</td><td> </td><td>DEAL, Kelvin</td><td>UFNZ</td><td align="right">138</td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>ACT New Zealand</td><td align="right"> 900</td><td> </td><td>HUFFLETT, Paul</td><td>ACT</td><td align="right">306</td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Green Party</td><td align="right"> 3,417</td><td> </td><td>MELLOR, Diana</td><td>GP</td><td align="right">2,605</td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>National Party</td><td align="right"> 15,378</td><td> </td><td>SMITH, Nick</td><td>NAT</td><td align="right">20,471</td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Labour Party</td><td align="right"> 13,689</td><td> </td><td>STREET, Maryan</td><td>LAB</td><td align="right">12,000</td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>Kiwi Party</td><td align="right"> 256</td><td> </td><td>WESTLEY, Robin</td><td>KIWI</td><td align="right">312</td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Alliance</td><td align="right"> 42</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party</td><td align="right"> 144</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Democrats for Social Credit</td><td align="right"> 24</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>Family Party</td><td align="right"> 160</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Jim Anderton's Progressive</td><td align="right"> 282</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>Libertarianz</td><td align="right"> 12</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Mäori Party</td><td align="right"> 184</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>New Zealand First Party</td><td align="right"> 1,104</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>New Zealand Pacific Party</td><td align="right"> 11</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>RAM - Residents Action Movement</td><td align="right"> 3</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>The Bill and Ben Party</td><td align="right"> 209</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hlite"><td>The Republic of New Zealand Party</td><td align="right"> 5</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr class="hhevy"><td>Workers Party</td><td align="right"> 13</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr> <tr><td>Party Informals</td><td align="right">115</td><td> </td><td>Candidate Informals</td><td> </td><td align="right">241</td></tr> <tr><td>TOTAL</td><td align="right"> 36,335</td><td> </td><td>TOTAL</td><td> </td><td align="right"> 36,073</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Ixion]

Lets hope BRONZ point out that if their way doesn't work; the government and people of NZ can "look forward to" a far more annoying escalation of protests.

Yup. they did. And the media have been going beserk wanting to know what's happening.

[StoneY]

Oh yeah and last two 'radio' interviews, were hostile for the record

Ok, we did the 'peaceful' thing

Your turn Idle
Lead the Charge man I am right behind you (dont stop in a hurry will ya!)

[hgmiers]

Yup. they did. And the media have been going beserk wanting to know what's happening.

I'm happy to be involved in any action that will advertise our anger to the NZ public. We all need supporting stickers for our cars as well, so that people can see that we are also car owners, swarms of bikes need to co-ordinate and block accessways into and out of cities at rush hours, and so on. I think you'll find that most bike riders are always on the lookout for an excuse for a group cruise so teeing up via KB or texts would be an ideal way to get things sorted. ACC, like all Government entities, only pays lip-service to consultation, knowing that there is nothing Joe Bloggs can do anyway! Let's show them that at least we can f**k them off like they are f**king US off!

[mikeey01]

A few years back when living in the UK they decided that bikes were to pay a toll on one of the tunnels on the M25.

Bikers objected and thousands of them turned up at the toll booths. All dressed in wet weather gear, all with 10 pound notes. They dutifuly queued at the said toll booths. Each biker pulled up, got off their bike, took off their wet weather gear, took out their money from an pants pocket and dutifully waited for their change. They then counted the change, got back into their wet weather gear, back on the bike and rode off. This process was repeated by the next bike rider.

The M25 came to a standstill and London choked. They ran out of change at the toll botths and had to get more delivered by armoured car and the bike rider wouldnt leave till they had their change.

The next day there were no tolls for motorcycles.

They tried again on the Servern bridge and the same thing happened there. Again the next day there were no tolls for bikes.

The police and the authorities couldnt do anything as every biker was following the letter of the law.

If you have ever seen a city od 10 million gridlocked then you would realise how much a little bit of

CIVIL OBEDIENCE

can be a very powerful tool.


Central city car parks and the above idea?

[Zapf]

How about just get a good number of cars and trailers to grid lock the block that the ACC office is in for every major center. Shouldn't take many :)

[idleidolidyll]

Yup. they did. And the media have been going beserk wanting to know what's happening.

Good; we won't tell them; that would spoil the action

likewise the Police: this is not going to be something organised by the cops

[peasea]

Good; we won't tell them; that would spoil the action

likewise the Police: this is not going to be something organised by the cops

Which is why it's handy to know who the kb cops are and keep them off any contact/texting list. It might complicate matters but the element of surprise will be our main weapon, that and unity.


Our TWO main weapons are............

(Nobody epects the 'kb Inquisition'.)

[idleidolidyll]

Yes,

it will be difficult to stop the cops getting the txt number but if we plan this well; it won't even matter.

That's part of the reason I suggested txt.

I've suggested a meeting of the two Auckland Thursday night ride groups this week to discuss the next step:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1129519701&postcount=6963

[Ixion]

I do not approve of this action. And I never speed, speed kills, this I know because the government tells me so.

It is lucky that none of these disruptive persons have thought of a pre paid central phone owned by nobody and found nowhere which in turn txts info to particpants .

Of of organising decoy happenings.

[idleidolidyll]

I do not approve of this action. And I never speed, speed kills, this I know because the government tells me so.

It is lucky that none of these disruptive persons have thought of a pre paid central phone owned by nobody and found nowhere which in turn txts info to particpants .

Of of organising decoy happenings.

I have such a phone/number on the way and will be providing it to all intersted parties.
It's a prepaid phone bought by a kind volunteer and dedicated to this process.

Thanks to that thoughtfull person; I will be advising all those who sent me txt messages of the new central contact number.
The phone arrives this afternoon.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Well here is a version that's going on my car when I go out for lunch...

[bogan]

Well here is a version that's going on my car when I go out for lunch...

just one thing, your should be you're

Will such protests be an auckland only affair, or a co-ordinated country wide shindig?

[idleidolidyll]

Aha!

Our friendly supporter has dropped off the phone number;

This isn't a complete phone; they just bought a pre pay simm for the cause. She wishes to remain anonymous so please don't ask me who she is.

I don't have a spare phone at work so I'll load this onto an old phone I have at home. I'm quite happy for this phone and number to be passed around as required.

The number is: 021 073 0316
Txt Motorcycle Disruption to the above number to register as a protester and don't forget to advise your location and to tell all your mates to register as well.

I'll send registered protestors a message tonight once I load the card ionto a phone.

[XP@]

IT'S YOU NEXT!

Not just bikers, ALL affected parties.

All the population needs to join the fight to return to Woodhouse principles!
We are not the only ones affected If we rally all the troups: bikes, trucks, cars, cyclists, elderly, rape victims and anyone else who stands to suffer from the changes....

Then run the route up all the way through wellington

[Patrick]

It's a shame some think the KB coppers are against any of this...

I have 4 bikes in my garage, happy to take up spaces at the Mega Centre... or Centre City.... or the CBD.....

[idleidolidyll]

I'm going to spend some time tonight putting all the ideas together in one post.

There is a bit of action this weekend so you'll all get a txt message tonight or tomorrow morning.
The new phone number is up and running; i'll run it for a while and then pass the baton to somewhere else.

txt 021 0730316 Motorcycle Disruption to be included in the text list.

Those in areas outside Auckland: please post a useful meeting area in your general location. Cafe's are good and you'll probably find the owner will support you as most will buy a coffee etc before the start.

Back soon

[idleidolidyll]

It's a shame some think the KB coppers are against any of this...

I have 4 bikes in my garage, happy to take up spaces at the Mega Centre... or Centre City.... or the CBD.....

Patrick,

It's not that we think YOU specifically are against this. The point is that we do NOT want to be ushered into tidy queues by cops following us around.

How do we know WHICH KB copper is to be trusted not to pass the word onto those who will try to disrupt our disruption?

I for one welcome your support

[StoneY]

I will telll you about Cops.
Yesterday the cop running the Avalon lights, said "Fuck it, let em all go " and radio'd the NZTA command center to say "No phazing, lock these greens"

He told the lead riders, "Stuff the cars, its YOUR day today, go boys go!" (Direct quote apparently)

Here is what Wingrider sent me today in Italics

Just spoke to Sergent Walker from kapiti Police.
He was tasked with providing escorts from Otaki to Wellington.
he was our lead vehicle from Kapiti to Papakowhai.

In 35 years of Policing he has NEVER seen anything like yesterday.
He has stated that no one really came to their attention other than some idiot pullin wheelies on Mana esplanade. He believes other riders took care of it before the person was identified.

There were a lot of cars on the roads patrolling whilst riders departed wellington for home.
NOT ONE COMPLAINT FROM THE PUBLIC RECEIVED!!
99% OF RIDERS COMPLYENT. Those that weren't soon fell into line.
NOT AWARE OF ANY ACCIDENTS.

Everyone who spoke to a Police officer yesterday was polite.

Massive thumbs up from them.
Forward Message

Just coz Pat is a cop, dont take it hes all establishment...
We need cops, I for one wont want to live in a Police free society

Pat seems one of the better ones, look at his issue with Dylan!
No abuse of powers at all

Pat, I salute you and your colleagues man
No BS, either.
Police made the BIKEOI Possible....at the very top of the chain too

Thanks Patrick for being a dedicated public servant man
Osu

[Deano]

Patrick,

It's not that we think YOU specifically are against this. The point is that we do NOT want to be ushered into tidy queues by cops following us around.

How do we know WHICH KB copper is to be trusted not to pass the word onto those who will try to disrupt our disruption?

I for one welcome your support

How do you know any KBer isn't a narc ?

[Trudes]

Burn The Witch!!!!

[idleidolidyll]

This is a collection of ideas from the thread.
Please feel free to offer more ideas within the law or perhaps stretching the law somewhat so we can establish the boundaries............................


IMPORTANT: We need some ideas for meeting places outside Auckland. There have been many txts from other towns and regions; please tell us some nice meeting areas we can use as staging points for these protests.


A good idea to offer meeting places where we all have room to park individually in each car park and a cafe close by etc is also a good plan.


There is no point at all having these protests if people don't know why. You probably all have access to a computer and printer: print an A4 sign to sellotape to your seat while your bike is parked blocking car spaces.


Make up a sign for your back or buy one of the tee shirts and wear it on the outside or wear a reflecta jacket with your version of the protest in big bold letters on the back.


Yes! The National and ACT (and some Maori) politicians are behind this. Make a point of lawful harrasment of their offices, block their park areas etc.





Laxi:

I'm for doing laps of MPs houses starting at say 11 and go until 5, louder the pipes the better.

Frosty: One legal disruption I thought of was to start REALLY early in the AM and park one bike in every car parking spot in the main centers.As far as I'm aware its totally legal but would disrupt the central cities completely.

wingrider: "If we want to piss anyone off then it needs to be those National MP's and any of their supportive MP's from other parties. Get onside with all the other groups to show support where applicable when they protest about changes that will affect them."

jeffs:
I suggest we start by very slow riding in close circles around the bus depots, in such a way as it makes it impossible for buses to
get out. Hit the commuter, but not the one driving the car. This will have several effects. It show the people that we don't want to be in
our cars adding to the congestion. Getting us off our bikes, wont make us move to public transport. If you hold up the cars, people
may move to public transport, which is exactly one of their plans. Given the latest bus problems, such a thing would get good news cover



pzkpfw:
I was thinking something similar the other day.
But it involved walking and use of pedestrian (zebra) crossings.



Indian Tiger:
Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".


Flip: I really like the idea of a park up around your local ACC ofices and a good old school noisy protest.


Frosty:
Actually I really think you lot aren't thinking this through are ya??
The point in doing this is to make sure the car driving public realise that if bikes are priced off the road that this loss of parking spaces will be PERMANANT as bikers are FORCED by government to drive cars.
The great nor western car park will be worse etc.
I'd even suggest that if the tickets in central wellington are"only" $40 then it would be well worth it to make the point loud and clear


iii:
The way to do this then: use a poster depicting the car you'll have to buy and park there when the levy hikes price bikes off the road
hang this from your bike as you block their space telling them its because of the ACC rises


wysper:
What if every biker stood by his/her bike for the duration of the protest.
Holding a sign explaining why they were there. We would be protecting our own, protecting each other and spreading a message.
And I think you are right about bringing cyclists, sports people into it. The political angle needs to be hammered too. Potentially we are a voting block thousands strong. If the issue is a vote winner/loser for us.


Sis:
paraphrased: "we can bring cars and vans too, this would help with the public and banner space and the riding slowly taking up a lane thing"

continues.....................

[idleidolidyll]

ManDownUnder:
And likewise... make use of bus lanes. DOn't forget to exploit the anomaly about bus lanes and intersections.
Bikes are allowed to use bus lanes inside Auckland city but are NOT allowed to proceed at the green "B". Chinaman's hill in the city is RIPE for causing mayhem. Ride to the top, wait for the buses to bank up behind you, wait for the "B"... and SIT THERE
By law you have to wait for the green light to go on... and when it does, scoot through the intersection quicksmart. The lanes merge the bus lanes runs out, and cars then cut them off. Done it before - and it works a TREAT!
We need a KBer in a land cruiser behind each lane of bikes then.


Conquiztador:
- A few bikers outside ACT/Maori Party/National MP's offices in their home towns with a BIG sign at the street saying something like:
"This is the office of Xxx Xxxxxx. Honk your horn if you agree that they are fucking up ACC". Does not matter if he/she is not there. It will affect their staff.


Be at every public appearance the MP has in his/her electorate giving out information re what he/she is doing to ACC. Have a handful of bikers there in their gear.
- Be at every get-to-gether that these parties hold. Have a big bunch of bikers outside for the whole meeting. (They all have webpages and it is not tricky to suss out when and where they are gathering)
- Follow the MP's car by bike. Have someone on a bike there all the time.

- At every bike meet/race meet/rally/Toy run etc. talk over the PA system for a minute or so. Tell everyone NOT to vote for the parties that are screwing up ACC.
- Keep on sending letters to the editors of local newspapers with different angles on the issue. Get them publicised in the "Letters to the Editor" section.
- A daily presence outside parlament of a doz or so bikers. Just to make them know that we are there...



apes:
mass slow rides on main motorways in the rush hour, one city per day, and a mass ride past government on a day some major bill is being discussed, something that generally inconvieniances everyone is well advertised before hand so those in the tin can and those driving trucks realise these levies could hit them next.


DangerousBastard:
Doesn't ACC usually have large parking buildings? A pack of ten or twenty noisy vtwins or inline fours will fucking devastating inside there.
Why not ride around inside the parking buildings while while staff are coming or going from work? Don't do anything intimidating - you won't need to. Just ride your noisy intimidating bike around and don't eye contact anyone - nothing illegal about that.
edit: They will call the cops before we can leave the building for sure, so make real sure you are squeaky clean. It will fuck the cops off too, coz it will take them an hour to check 20 bikes + bikers over, only to discover theres nothing they can zap them for. Suggest we take some lawyer-type with the group, as he can advise us legally when stopped by the fuzz - that will eff them off even more.
Do larger ACC offices have a cafeteria that is open to the public? Why not drop in for lunch about 20 mins before their lunch time, and buy all their pies and quiches. I don't normally go for quiche, but I'd make an exception in this case.


Kiwi Graham:
How about checking John Keys movements, meeting him and giving him 'outriders' to his destinations. Wherever he goes the media follows!


DangerousBastard:
edit: you might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.


Sidewinder:
is this one legal?
a burn out with a pocket bike on the roof of acc in te rapa hamilton, but my work lader wasnt big enough lol


bogan:
cud hold a few signs etc to the effect of, 134 days to go, timed for an action the week before election. Even if we dont do something huge (though we would) it'll put bit lot of fear into the politicians wondering what we would do!


Subike:
I know a few lads who ride rather large trikes.
they are on our side even if their rides are registgered as cars.
put these trikes at the back of any mob, and then let any pissed off driver try to push trough .
a trike as the tail end charle on any group ride always will add to the saftey factor,
Apart from taking up the whole lane as a cages does,
they are rather intimidating to the average joe citizen.
so if any post BIKEOI is taken in the form of group rides,
try and have one or two big trikes at the rear.


Pzkpfw:
I believe pedestrians have right of way where driveways cross footpaths.
Could a steady stream of walking bikers prevent ACC staff get to work? MP's get into their office/home?


Mr Merde:
A few years back when living in the UK they decided that bikes were to pay a toll on one of the tunnels on the M25.
Bikers objected and thousands of them turned up at the toll booths. All dressed in wet weather gear, all with 10 pound notes. They dutifuly queued at the said toll booths. Each biker pulled up, got off their bike, took off their wet weather gear, took out their money from an pants pocket and dutifully waited for their change. They then counted the change, got back into their wet weather gear, back on the bike and rode off. This process was repeated by the next bike rider.
The M25 came to a standstill and London choked. They ran out of change at the toll botths and had to get more delivered by armoured car and the bike rider wouldnt leave till they had their change.
The next day there were no tolls for motorcycles.


Pixie:
(not posted as an idea per se but has its merits)
Get one of Klingon's hooters and hold it in your mouth as you ride.
(I mean the plastic ones she was selling at the domain,you dirty bastards)


iii:
It might take a while but instead of parking and getting off your scooters and bikes, you could stop in the space to "read a map", "answer the phone", "adjust your underwear", put on or take off a piece of clothing etc, any excuse to STOP, not park, in those spaces.
When a parking nazi asks you to move on, you WILL move on: to that space up ahead where the other bike is stopped and if a bunch of you do this when people are trying to park, you'll achieve the aims.
This would work best if there are more bikes than spaces in a selected area; that way the extra bikes could leap into the space quickly.


Sl8er4lyf:
Best things to do to disrupt Auckland is a citywide block off at rush hour, whether its all main ways into city center or just a block off of queen; we need to make them see that we are no minority


mikeey01:
Central city car parks and the above idea? (refernce to Mr Merdes ideas)


Zapf:
How about just get a good number of cars and trailers to grid lock the block that the ACC office is in or every major center. Shouldn't take many


XP@:
IT'S YOU NEXT!
Not just bikers, ALL affected parties.
All the population needs to join the fight to return to Woodhouse principles!
We are not the only ones affected If we rally all the troups: bikes, trucks, cars, cyclists, elderly, rape victims and anyone else who stands to suffer from the changes....
Then run the route up all the way through wellington

[idleidolidyll]

It's a shame some think the KB coppers are against any of this...

I have 4 bikes in my garage, happy to take up spaces at the Mega Centre... or Centre City.... or the CBD.....

PATRICK

You have an opportunity to make a valuable contribution here.
As I've said a few times; this is a LEGAL disruption.

Can you please read the ideas above and offer your thoughts from the Laws' POV?

[idleidolidyll]

Off to do some collation of the txt numbers:

back in a while

[twotyred]

Burn The Witch!!!!

it's a fair cop...

[BMWST?]

not for this.You will be disrupting many many more households than just the MP in question.

[aewilliam]

Hi, are there any rules about roundabouts?
For Auckland as an example, I'm am thinking of the potential of having bikes clog up (circling, or continually entering/exiting) critical arterial roundabouts such as Royal Oak or Panmure Roundabouts, or motorway access roundabouts like Ellerslie/Penrose or Greenlane. This way, it cuts off access to primary access points for car drivers and public transport to motorways or arterials.

[idleidolidyll]

Hi, are there any rules about roundabouts?
For Auckland as an example, I'm am thinking of the potential of having bikes clog up (circling, or continually entering/exiting) critical arterial roundabouts such as Royal Oak or Panmure Roundabouts, or motorway access roundabouts like Ellerslie/Penrose or Greenlane. This way, it cuts off access to primary access points for car drivers and public transport to motorways or arterials.

that's a damn good idea!

[Trudes]

I'm fairly sure it is illegal to go around and around a round about.

[StoneY]

I'm fairly sure it is illegal to go around and around a round about.

What about the Basin reserve for say 15 minutes of say, 200 bikes??? all in 2nd gear doing 30

[Trudes]

What about the Basin reserve for say 15 minutes of say, 200 bikes??? all in 2nd gear doing 30

Surely that's not classed as a round about, so let's DO IT!!!!:woohoo:

[idleidolidyll]

we wouldn't need to EACH go round and round: with a few bikes, one or two could go round then get off then another couple go round then get off then repeat all over again

there are legal ways to do most things

cops would probably eventually turn up but if you had posters saying why you were doing this, the point would be made

[caseye]

You are a naughty Naughty Boy mr Stoney! I bin there manMonday,Yesterday and today! that'd work, spose ya want us to come down there again and show you how to rotate to the left!

[GOONR]

You would need a few bikes for this but how about.. get on a motorway at one junction, turn around at the next junction, repeat!

[idleidolidyll]

You would need a few bikes for this but how about.. get on a motorway at one junction, turn around at the next junction, repeat!

a useful idea for later when we have more bikes

so far i count just over 40 registered phone numbers and lots of promises to bring mates.
if it works the word will spread

riders from Nelson, Wellington, Whakatane, Taupo, Tauranga, Auckland, Kapiti and rising every day

looking good particularly if each brings 2 or 3 riding buddies

txts to follow tomorrow

[XP@]

How do you know any KBer isn't a narc ?

Urr... :doh: we are posting on the internet! Anyone can read what we post here, except private messages.

Expect it to be read by the cops, the press or anyone else who cares to take interest! The government and ACC probably keep searching for ammo too!

[The Joka]

I am right into this! It is a sad day when protesting becomes PC!

I think all options weighed up... By far the best would be:

Just before rush hour Monday morning... Auckland motorway, ride into town and take a park!

This does three things...

1./ Increases the likely hood of a big turnout as people have all weekend to make their way up/down and they only have to take one day off work.

2./ Creates holy hell on the motorway

3./ when people finally get to work they cant park anywhere...

No offence meant to anyone here but taking a park on a sunday just doesnt have the same effect!

[Thani-B]

I'm fairly sure it is illegal to go around and around a round about.

I think you are allowed to go around it 3 times before its illegal. Heard that somewhere, shall hunt for legislation for it. But a steady stream of bikes should be fine.

[idleidolidyll]

One of the issues we are likely to have is infiltration by cops.

When you get your txt message you will be sent to a meeting area. At that meeting ask outright whether any attendees are police officers or in any way connected with the police.
If they do not own up; there is a fair case for entrapment if you are prosecuted for any offence on the protest.

Further; Some police are members of KB and it is likely that there has been an instruction by their masters to monitor this forum (KB) for evidence of disruption etc.

OUT THE POLICE! if you know any of the mobile phone numbers of the police riders here, please txt them to 021 0730316 with 'Police' in the text message or send a pm to me and I will arrange for that knowledge to be passed on.

We MAY allow right thinking cops along but we do NOT want any undercover or subversive attempts to derail us.

[Cr1MiNaL]

I wanted to be a cop not long ago... But I would be a shit cop as I would never ticket any bike rider, so I gave up the idea. I know a few cops who would be sweet with the idea and even join in on their bikes. Shit some of those buggers have let me off for speeding, wheeling and DD. Bloody legends, considering the law is so bs at times to be enforced to the tee.

[bogan]

another idea from this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129522281#post1129522281) target media who use the facts we have proved incorrect, banners like "Learn to be a proper journo, do some factchecking" "stop being a government puppet, think for yourselves" etc, turn up at thier offices high noon the day any article using incorrect facts is printed. The protest would be aimed at those spreading the propaganda, NOT those just expressing thier own opinion.

Also, along with the text ring of people, would it be a good idea to do an email one as well? lots cheaper and easier to use that way!

[idleidolidyll]

correct bogan

the way TV3 reported the protest at the domain last week was disgusting: they led with the rider who fell off, never said who caused the incident and went back to it again and again.

it dominated the item and the cause wwas left floundering

We really do need to target disruptions to the media itself and to the reporters as well

[Ixion]

One of the issues we are likely to have is infiltration by cops.



The classic method to detect infiltration is a trap. Send each person a "action going down" txt , with a different time or place . Note which person got which time/place. See if the cops turn up/the doors are locked etc. If they are, you know who leaked that info. There's your informer.

If you are organised on a cell basis, then each level verifies their own cell membership. So each cell leader only has maybe half a dozen people to test. So it's not very arduous.

Not condoning such action, of course.

[ital916]

The classic method to detect infiltration is a trap. Send each person a "action going down" txt , with a different time or place . Note which person got which time/place. See if the cops turn up/the doors are locked etc. If they are, you know who leaked that info. There's your informer.

If you are organised on a cell basis, then each level verifies their own cell membership. So each cell leader only has maybe half a dozen people to test. So it's not very arduous.

Not condoning such action, of course.

operating in cells. weeding out informants and non believers.....deary me, is this ringing any bells with people haha, just joking.

I would have loved to attend some disruptive protests but alas, work on sat and sunday precludes any form of fighting for my rights. I shall spread the word though.

[Deano]

not for this.You will be disrupting many many more households than just the MP in question.

Might risk getting a ticket for excessive noise.


Urr... :doh: we are posting on the internet! Anyone can read what we post here, except private messages.

Expect it to be read by the cops, the press or anyone else who cares to take interest! The government and ACC probably keep searching for ammo too!

Er Doh - exactly my point. Why exclude cops when 'anyone' can log on, say they are keen to help etc, but actually work for ACC etc.

Or will you only allow participation by people you know and trust - Patrick is obviously not to be trusted ???

:argh::eek5:

[idleidolidyll]

Patrick CAN help and I for one welcome his help.

However, even Patrick understands why we must be careful.

[idleidolidyll]

Meeting in AKL tonight

won't be posting

[glegge]

Also, along with the text ring of people, would it be a good idea to do an email one as well? lots cheaper and easier to use that way!

Email lists are easy, i can provide one if required. also, I think you can email to txt depending on the network as well.

[idleidolidyll]

txt to
021 0730316
to register as an activist

Don't sit around and let them get away with this bullshit

stop the cities, wake up the media, wake up the government, WAKE UP THE PUBLIC!

Nick Smith said on TV news that cars are next!

[Tank]

One of the issues we are likely to have is infiltration by cops.

When you get your txt message you will be sent to a meeting area. At that meeting ask outright whether any attendees are police officers or in any way connected with the police.
If they do not own up; there is a fair case for entrapment if you are prosecuted for any offence on the protest.

Further; Some police are members of KB and it is likely that there has been an instruction by their masters to monitor this forum (KB) for evidence of disruption etc.

OUT THE POLICE! if you know any of the mobile phone numbers of the police riders here, please txt them to 021 0730316 with 'Police' in the text message or send a pm to me and I will arrange for that knowledge to be passed on.

We MAY allow right thinking cops along but we do NOT want any undercover or subversive attempts to derail us.



I think you will find the 'ol entrapment lines are more urban myth - or have no basis in kiwi law. If its part of an investigation Im sure that they dont have to identify themselves.

Can you imagine - every criminal meeting would start with "ok chaps - anyone here a copper?".

Also - on the txt - they wont actually have to have a phone number sent to you to get the information. Now you have publicized the number - they can just have the txt forwarded to them from Vodafone.

[Tank]

Yep - just checked and its a myth:

http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_info6.shtml

[vifferman]

Is this an NZ based piece, or US? I think so many people watch lots of US TV shows that they confuse that with the reality here.

[Hispid]

Well I did just put in a very loud and irritating pipe.

May as well get some use out of it.:2guns:

[idleidolidyll]

Just received notification of new email address for affirmative action:

motorcycledisruption@activist.com

send all sensitive info to this address.
send details of National ACT MP's travel and events
send media info

[Tank]

there is also the new National MP;s Blog that you can comment on:

nationalmps.co.nz

Be sure to sound rational - ranting wont help.

[idleidolidyll]

Just got the txt for action this weekend:

Useful to have video camera in case of trouble from law etc

some will arrive in places with no designated speaker/leader
advised to play it by ear

arrival time sunday 8am wellington stay 1-2 hrs then decide on next action between yourselves
ride slow, at lights you are in no rush to get across; don't speed, nothing illegal
make sure you have signs on your backs and on bikes when parked
TAKE FRIENDS

Auckland
Mission Bay Sunday 7.30-8.30 as sent
signs, slow riding in groups, be safe
if angry drivers look dangerous; let them pass
park up and take all spots

BOP Saturday about 9-10am
John Key is opening a marina in Whangamata
You probably won't get close but you CAN make a lot of noise nearby
He is having lunch in Katikati later: track him down and make a noise
Nothing illegal!
WATCH OUT FOR COPS! There will be many!

Palmy: meet city centre cafe sunday am; signs, slow riding etc

Nelson: email motorcycledisruption@activist.com
best location for protest?
time?
numbers?

[idleidolidyll]

After all events:

please email to motorcycledisruption@activist.com and provide info on how the protests went

these will be collected by organisers to help make more impact each round

If you have taken photos; send them to that address

If you want to help; (this is all anonymous) the main organiser phone card will be sent from group to group to keep media, govt and police guessing

put hands up by emailing above address

[Mr Merde]

Having perused this thread and read all the paranoia re the authoritative powers eaves dropping on this thread.

Why hasnt anyone proposed one of the basic precepts of all warefare (and this is a war no matter how you word it).

That of

MISDIRECTION
If you are worried that someone is going to watch this thread and then show up at the venue then misdirect them.

Make them gather their resources somewhere of your choosing whilst gathering yours where they are weakest.

Think of the wasted time, manhours and money spent trying to be where they believed you to be.

Think of the embarrsement when you show somewhere else.

Do this a few times and you will e leading them by the rings in their noses, if you get my aliteration.

Read SunTzu

[Ixion]

Well, I'm glad SOMEONE else gets it.

Meanwhile at a non-Westfield shopping mall ......

[Mr Merde]

Well, I'm glad SOMEONE else gets it.

Meanwhile at a non-Westfield shopping mall ......

" Master Sun

When you are going to attack nearby, make it look as if you are going to go along way; when you are going to attack far away make it look as if you going just a short distance"

"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confussion"

"Use anger to throw them into disarray"

All written 2000 years ago and just as true today in our dispute.

[Ixion]

Indeed.

And then, 'But, they publicise that they are going to attack at X. So, they are really going to attack somewhere else. But then they remind us of the words of the Master. So, perhaps they are being subtle. They think that we will think that when they say they will attack at X that means they will attack somewhere else, so we will not defend X , so I think maybe they will attack at X" . Arggh, I do not know what to believe.'

And in the meantime it ALL gets publicity!

And if NOTHING happens then THAT will be news too ! Because everyone was expecting SOMETHING to happen.

[Mr Merde]

Indeed.

And then, 'But, they publicise that they are going to attack at X. So, they are really going to attack somewhere else. But then they remind us of the words of the Master. So, perhaps they are being subtle. They think that we will think that when they say they will attack at X that means they will attack somewhere else, so we will not defend X , so I think maybe they will attack at X" . Arggh, I do not know what to believe.'

And in the meantime it ALL gets publicity!

And if NOTHING happens then THAT will be news too ! Because everyone was expecting SOMETHING to happen.

Are you stalking me mate? :cool:

We need a general not a committee. All this bickering just detracts from the purpose.

Someone step up, make a decision, accept the responsibility and take control.

Any military strategists out there? Step forward and be counted.

[idleidolidyll]

Having perused this thread and read all the paranoia re the authoritative powers eaves dropping on this thread.

Why hasnt anyone proposed one of the basic precepts of all warefare (and this is a war no matter how you word it).

That of

MISDIRECTION
If you are worried that someone is going to watch this thread and then show up at the venue then misdirect them.

Make them gather their resources somewhere of your choosing whilst gathering yours where they are weakest.

Think of the wasted time, manhours and money spent trying to be where they believed you to be.

Think of the embarrsement when you show somewhere else.

Do this a few times and you will e leading them by the rings in their noses, if you get my aliteration.

Read SunTzu





because sometimes even misdirection needs to be relatively covert and in particular; the fact that it is going to happen in any particular place and at some particular time.

[Mr Merde]

because sometimes even misdirection needs to be relatively covert and in particular; the fact that it is going to happen in any particular place and at some particular time.


Fair call :lol:

[Bald Eagle]

Having perused this thread and read all the paranoia re the authoritative powers eaves dropping on this thread.

Why hasnt anyone proposed one of the basic precepts of all warefare (and this is a war no matter how you word it).

That of

MISDIRECTION
If you are worried that someone is going to watch this thread and then show up at the venue then misdirect them.

Make them gather their resources somewhere of your choosing whilst gathering yours where they are weakest.

Think of the wasted time, manhours and money spent trying to be where they believed you to be.

Think of the embarrsement when you show somewhere else.

Do this a few times and you will e leading them by the rings in their noses, if you get my aliteration.

Read SunTzu





find yourself some of the 1981 springbok tour protest organisers. they did a lot of this very successfully. Although regrettably I suspect a lot of them are now 'respectable' professionals.

[caseye]

"find yourself some of the 1981 springbok tour protest organisers. they did a lot of this very successfully. Although regrettably I suspect a lot of them are now 'respectable' professionals"

Respectable perhaps, respected? well, thats another story, then or now.
Keep up the good work Ideli.
__________________

[idleidolidyll]

The smirking chimp look was in full glow today as John Key was confronted by a group of motorcyclists during the opening of the Whangamata Marina.

Around a dozen bikes from the BOP and Sth Auckland stood betwen Mr Keys' chopper and the event and heckled him as he crossed the road.

Mr Key was asked why his ACC Minister was not in posession of the facts regarding motorcycle accidents: he declined to answer.

Mr Key was then asked if HE was in possession of the facts and he seemed to indicate that he was but again declined to comment.

Most of the crowd standing by supported the protestors and some stood with them.

Three of the bikes then followed Mr Key into the Marina and waited patiently as the Marina dignitaries opened the facility. However, once Mr Key started to speak, the three started their motorcycles and revved them enough to disrupt his words considerably.
A few of the locals were upset with the bikes but for the most part there was little anger to be seen.
Two policewomen politely asked the motorcyclists to move on and without complaint or argument: they ssslllooowwwllllyy put on their gear and left the event revving their bikes as they passed Mr Key plus beeping their horns and waving at the crowd.

Mr Key was advised that he would be seeing a lot more of New Zealands' motorcyclists.

[idleidolidyll]

Once again the media disrespected the Bikers and even though the Marina story was on the 6pm News: the protest was ignored by TVNZ and TV3 who pretended it never happened.

Targeting the media directly would seem to be the next logical step

[bogan]

Once again the media disrespected the Bikers and even though the Marina story was on the 6pm News: the protest was ignored by TVNZ who pretended it never happened.

Targeting the media directly would seem to be the next logical step


+1 for that idea, it is them who are best suited to educate the masses of nationals real agenda here

[caseye]

Well done guys and girls,the media might take some swinging, be easier to simply swat em out of the way and create our own media.U Tube is free and how many kids don't watch it?

[rob 0]

well done guys

but ,,,

why wasn't the word out, so that you could have hundereds of bikes

if he had seen that many he wouldn't have landed

civil obedience causing political distruption

if you know of any MP visitations spread the word

I cant help thinking that we missed an opertunity

[idleidolidyll]

Actually it wasn't an opportunity missed; it was an opportunity taken.

This is essentially an ambush thread and as such will pretty much always be made up of smallish groups.

However: I'd like to hold a meeting ASAP so we can discuss strategy and find willing helpers.
The protests over the weekend were a good next step after the Bikoi so we will see what changes in discussions between Govt and our representatives over the next few days.
If nothing changes; we will have to look at going up a level.

[Patrick]

Just my opinions on these.... if deleted out of the original post, then they "appear" to be OK....

Laxi:

I'm for doing laps of MPs houses starting at say 11 and go until 5, louder the pipes the better.

Careful about noisy exhausts. Subjective test could be used to green sticker bikes out of it....as well as a fine and demerits.

Indian Tiger:
Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".

Good....., but dangerous - impatient people pushing through causing accidents/harm to riders?

Also holding up traffic/hindering traffic flows on highways can be cause for a ticket...?

COLOR=Red]DangerousBastard:[/COLOR]
edit: you might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.

Possibly arrested for Disorderly behaviour.

Sidewinder:
is this one legal?
a burn out with a pocket bike on the roof of acc in te rapa hamilton, but my work lader wasnt big enough lol

If its a carpark, its a road.... sustained loss of traction, bike impounded, you arrested, loss of licence.

Just some thoughts.....

[Ixion]

Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".


And you think you a re going to find a motorway in Dorkland where you can get up to 69kph without splitting? :rofl:

Seriously, holding up motorway traffic in Auckland isn't going to work. Most of the time it's so slow you CAN'T hold it up, when it's not there's not enough traffic to make it worth while.

A slow ride on Tamaki Drive might work? Maybe we could get the cyclists on board for that ?

[Ixion]

edit: you might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.

Possibly arrested for Disorderly behaviour.



Probably could, "disorderly behaviour" is the classic arrest grounds for breaking up demonstrations and picket lines.

Dodgy ground for the cops too, though. They'd have to push the arrests through to a prosecution, and proving "disorderly" isn't as simple as it sounds. LOTS of union background and case law on that .

And would they REALLY want articles in the press "Hundreds of bikers arrested for finger waggling " ?

Don't forget how intimidating bikers can look to outsiders. A line of 20 bikers, doing nothing , just standing, all in black leather, arms folded , staring, is real scary for people who don't know what sweet gentle souls we are.

[Tank]

Once again the media disrespected the Bikers and even though the Marina story was on the 6pm News: the protest was ignored by TVNZ and TV3 who pretended it never happened.

Targeting the media directly would seem to be the next logical step


1/2 a dozen blokes is (despite what you think) is hardly news worthy.

Pollies gets this from all sorts of groups all the time.

Water of a ducks back - You arnt being disrespected - you are simply just not worth acknowledging.

[Mikkel]

You want to get in the news?

I'm sure fertiliser isn't that expensive and diesel is around a buck per liter... biggest bang for your buck.

[The Pastor]

just my opinions on these.... If deleted out of the original post, then they "appear" to be ok....

laxi:

i'm for doing laps of mps houses starting at say 11 and go until 5, louder the pipes the better.

careful about noisy exhausts. Subjective test could be used to green sticker bikes out of it....as well as a fine and demerits.

indian tiger:
slap on some l plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".

good....., but dangerous - impatient people pushing through causing accidents/harm to riders?

Also holding up traffic/hindering traffic flows on highways can be cause for a ticket...?

color=red]dangerousbastard:[/color]
edit: You might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.

possibly arrested for disorderly behaviour.

sidewinder:
is this one legal?
A burn out with a pocket bike on the roof of acc in te rapa hamilton, but my work lader wasnt big enough lol

if its a carpark, its a road.... Sustained loss of traction, bike impounded, you arrested, loss of licence.

just some thoughts.....
actually its private land, im pretty sure if you have the owners permission you can do as many burn outs as you want. (and if you go futher the police should go away unless the owner has complained)

[idleidolidyll]

Just my opinions on these.... if deleted out of the original post, then they "appear" to be OK....
Laxi:

I'm for doing laps of MPs houses starting at say 11 and go until 5, louder the pipes the better.

Careful about noisy exhausts. Subjective test could be used to green sticker bikes out of it....as well as a fine and demerits.

Indian Tiger:
Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".

Good....., but dangerous - impatient people pushing through causing accidents/harm to riders?

Also holding up traffic/hindering traffic flows on highways can be cause for a ticket...?

COLOR=Red]DangerousBastard:[/COLOR]
edit: you might position a bunch of bikers outside the exit gates and all waggle a finger at him.

Possibly arrested for Disorderly behaviour.

Sidewinder:
is this one legal?
a burn out with a pocket bike on the roof of acc in te rapa hamilton, but my work lader wasnt big enough lol

If its a carpark, its a road.... sustained loss of traction, bike impounded, you arrested, loss of licence.

Just some thoughts.....

Thank you Patrick: that's awesome help and much appreciated

[idleidolidyll]

1/2 a dozen blokes is (despite what you think) is hardly news worthy.

Pollies gets this from all sorts of groups all the time.

Water of a ducks back - You arnt being disrespected - you are simply just not worth acknowledging.

A dozen and more blokes AND gals thanks and any time a bunch of demonstartors disrupt the PM's speech; it is noteworthy.

The point of course is that John Key will certainly have been pissed off. We stepped up a notch on the weekend with a number of protests and we will continue to step things up by notches until they start talking seriously.

If you have better ideas; please offer them

[idleidolidyll]

Meeting at 7pm on, Finn McCools, Manukau City for those interested in discussing action in the next few weeks.
Sorry, can't make it a central city meet; I'm leaving at 5am next day for Hawkes Bay and can't stray far from home.

I'll be in Wellington Thursday and probably Friday night for those in Wellington and Kapiti: any suggestions for a meeting place?

[rob 0]

so you phone the local landscape suplies as nicks secatary
tell them to deliver 10 tons of bullshit to nick's house
drop it in the driveway at midday, as there is a working bee that evening
and send the invoice direct to his office

[idleidolidyll]

I like that idea Rob but to be honest I reckon Nick LIKES bullshit

[rob 0]

or,,,

follow the links, and setup outside the party functions
a sausage sizzle to raise funds for disabled children :2thumbsup
sell sauages to the nats and their suporters
but dont tell them about the laxitives in the sausages

hey presto !! instant bullshit!
:lol:

[caseye]

You want More! BS, thats incredulous.LOL Love the laxi sausages idea.

[Swoop]

Indian Tiger:
Slap on some L plates to the back of your bike and ride down the motorways at 69 kmph using all the lanes. One or two bikes with learner lisences in the midst of us and we're teaching them how to ride "legally".
Fairly sure that a rider, who has a full licence, will be committing an offence if they put L plates on their bike.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Fairly sure that a rider, who has a full licence, will be committing an offence if they put L plates on their bike.

Negative. The road code does not say that this cannot be done. Maybe a kb cop can confirm this?

[R6_kid]

Negative. The road code does not say that this cannot be done. Maybe a kb cop can confirm this?

I'm pretty sure you get pulled up if you leave them up in a car. Unless you were riding a bike under 250cc that belonged to a learner you'd have a hard time explaining to the cop why you had an L plate on a 250cc+ bike with a person with their full license riding.

[peasea]

I'm pretty sure you get pulled up if you leave them up in a car. Unless you were riding a bike under 250cc that belonged to a learner you'd have a hard time explaining to the cop why you had an L plate on a 250cc+ bike with a person with their full license riding.

Just preten' you cun spik Engrish, den offisher go home, Charee.

[Swoop]

Negative. The road code does not say that this cannot be done. Maybe a kb cop can confirm this?
I believe it was Ixion that posted the regulation here, some time back. A rider with a full licence cannot display an L plate.
BTW. The Road Code is only a guide. It is a lay-persons interpretation of the Act that Parliament passed.


Here ya go.
Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999 (SR 1999/100) (as at 01 April 2009).
Prohibition on display of L plate except in appropriate circumstances
A person must not drive, on a road, a motor vehicle that displays an L plate as specified in clause 66 unless that person—

(a) Holds a learner licence of the class that relates to that vehicle in accordance with Schedule 3; or

(b) Immediately prior to driving has been, or is about to be, accompanying the person in paragraph (a) in accordance with clause 16(1)(a); or

(c) Holds a driving instructor or testing officer endorsement and is driving a vehicle used for purposes connected with that endorsement.

[Cr1MiNaL]

I believe it was Ixion that posted the regulation here, some time back. A rider with a full licence cannot display an L plate.
BTW. The Road Code is only a guide. It is a lay-persons interpretation of the Act that Parliament passed.


Here ya go.
Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999 (SR 1999/100) (as at 01 April 2009).
Prohibition on display of L plate except in appropriate circumstances
A person must not drive, on a road, a motor vehicle that displays an L plate as specified in clause 66 unless that person—

(a) Holds a learner licence of the class that relates to that vehicle in accordance with Schedule 3; or

(b) Immediately prior to driving has been, or is about to be, accompanying the person in paragraph (a) in accordance with clause 16(1)(a); or

(c) Holds a driving instructor or testing officer endorsement and is driving a vehicle used for purposes connected with that endorsement.

So that means as long as you are teaching a learner to ride, you may display an L plate. Dunnit?

[Swoop]

So that means as long as you are teaching a learner to ride, you may display an L plate. Dunnit?
Clause 16(1)(a)

(a) The holder must not drive the vehicle (unless driving a motorcycle, moped, or an all-terrain vehicle) unless the holder is accompanied in the vehicle by a person who—
(i) Holds, and has held for at least 2 years, a full licence of a class that authorises that person to drive that vehicle; and
(ii) Is in charge of the vehicle; and
(iii) Is seated in the front passenger seat or, if there is no front passenger seat available, is seated as close as is practicable to the driver; and


Hmm. It seems as if the lawmakers are trying to have the "accompanying driver" (who should be in the vehicle with the learner), allowed to also display an L plate on their bike. Since a learner is prohibited from carrying a pillion passenger, perhaps this is their way out?
You could be correct on this call.
A rider with a full licence is not allowed to display an L-plate until becoming the "other 50% of a car" and being in the supervisorial role of the learner.
I have never seen a testing officer's bike displaying an L.

Remember IANAL.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Clause 16(1)(a)

(a) The holder must not drive the vehicle (unless driving a motorcycle, moped, or an all-terrain vehicle) unless the holder is accompanied in the vehicle by a person who—
(i) Holds, and has held for at least 2 years, a full licence of a class that authorises that person to drive that vehicle; and
(ii) Is in charge of the vehicle; and
(iii) Is seated in the front passenger seat or, if there is no front passenger seat available, is seated as close as is practicable to the driver; and


Hmm. It seems as if the lawmakers are trying to have the "accompanying driver" (who should be in the vehicle with the learner), allowed to also display an L plate on their bike. Since a learner is prohibited from carrying a pillion passenger, perhaps this is their way out?
You could be correct on this call.
A rider with a full licence is not allowed to display an L-plate until becoming the "other 50% of a car" and being in the supervisorial role of the learner.
I have never seen a testing officer's bike displaying an L.

Remember IANAL.

It says unlesss driving a motorcycle... which I think exempts motorcycles from the entire Clause 16(1)(a). So the law for motorcycles should be read without that clause. Which according to my understanding allows any bike to display an L plate while instructing another learner rider who holds a valid learners lisence and displays L plates. R1 with L plate = rock on!

[rob 0]

check your ph mesages idyl

[Jim Shady]

This actually ISN'T about Govt wanting to take bikes off the road: it's about Govt wanting to privatise ACC. To do that it will help enourmously if ACC fees are hiked so high that private insurance looks cheap by comparison.

The idea of disruptive action is NOT that they will give us what we want to shut us up; it is that the noise we make will bring media and the publics attention to the injustice of what they are doing.

Good constructive post though, keep it up[/QUOTE]

How about a trade me add,
Sale on behalf, one fully funded (not quite there yet, still smoke screening the public, but will be up and running at point of sale) ACC scheme. All enquiries to John Key or Nick Smith.
No Asians please, Winston is coming back and we so dont need the headache.:weep:

Text could do with more work, but Jo public would just shit themselves. This would make the news I reckon.

[Patrick]

Probably could, "disorderly behaviour" is the classic arrest grounds for breaking up demonstrations and picket lines.

Dodgy ground for the cops too, though. They'd have to push the arrests through to a prosecution, and proving "disorderly" isn't as simple as it sounds. LOTS of union background and case law on that .

And would they REALLY want articles in the press "Hundreds of bikers arrested for finger waggling " ?

Don't forget how intimidating bikers can look to outsiders. A line of 20 bikers, doing nothing , just standing, all in black leather, arms folded , staring, is real scary for people who don't know what sweet gentle souls we are.

You're quite right.... I thought the finger waggling was of the middle finger....


actually its private land, im pretty sure if you have the owners permission you can do as many burn outs as you want. (and if you go futher the police should go away unless the owner has complained)

I assume you're referring to the carpark call?

All carparks are private, but all carparks have a right of access to the public = public road.

[idleidolidyll]

I checked the ph messages and replies to the suggestions of meetings

auckland turned out with 5 and only one reply out of wellington

I kinda feel like deleting all the numbers and starting again; disappointing stuff

never mind; i'll do my thing regardless

[Patrick]

Now that is disappointing.....

5 from the biggest city in NZ and 1 from the next.....?

At least 30 turned out for the local shopping mall parkup here a few weekends ago............. in little ole Naki........

[idleidolidyll]

It is disappointing

There are about 25 volunteers registered in the Kapiti/Wellington area and 30+ in greater Auckland.

I'm thinking that good old Kiwi apathy may have taken hold or perhaps the tall poppy thing.

One of the keener Auckland volunteers has suggested that deleting all the names and having people recommit is a good idea: I'll think about that after the Key/Smith Political meeting in Auck this evening.

[road king]

just had an idea for another protest thing,

some bikers in black leather with black helmets with black visors could go to the bee hive and with some round up, write some friendly messages on the lawn.

[bogan]

just had an idea for another protest thing,

some bikers in black leather with black helmets with black visors could go to the bee hive and with some round up, write some friendly messages on the lawn.

next bikeoi perhaps, nobody would notice a couple of guys with wee sprays in a sea of thousands of protestors, and we'd be long gone before the results showed!