Nick Smith Auckland Nat meeting open to public

[short-circuit]

Onya Dpex.

Sorry I couldn't make it - too much wedding shit to do.

Can't believe you won her round after your early efforts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWhhEiQ9kI

[rustic101]

It was a good turnout. Smith, as he usually does, did the teflon coated number on most questions, but didn't get it all his own way, and he was caught out seriously contradicting himself....while on camera. :--))))

Anyway, tomorrow night there is a much juicier target. Mr Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi has invited the public to the opening of the new offices at 131 Kolmar Rd, Papatoetoe. Free food, BTW:

However, Kanwaljit is a new member, a back-bencher, and will have nowhere near the gross arrogance enjoyed by Smith. So we all need to be there.

who were the TV crew ???

[idleidolidyll]

Nick Smith:
"I've never heard ANY group ask for their taxes and levies to go up"

This was uttered shortly after a cyclist asked that he and his fellow cyclists be charged their fair share.

[drummer]

who were the TV crew ???TV3/...and radio live as well

p

[mikeey01]

From the mouth of the minister. 'ACC is an insurance scheme.'

It follows that the way is now open for non-claimants in any year to claim a no-claims reduction. Also, the way is now open for us all to sue those who cause us grief.

Can we back date those?

[drummer]

Can we back date those?Oh I am

P

[Kiwi Graham]

Well a good 70 odd bikes turned up 50ish of us turned up in convoy having all met at the toilets in Okahu Bay :whistle:.

Nick (shit head) Smith was already inside possibly thinking oh good only 20 or so bikes have shown up! Then the rest of us arrived! The TV cameras were there and filmed us all walking into the meeting, Nick was 'meeting and greeting' untill we showed up and then beat a hasty retreat to the back of the hall.
He stated how brave he was fronting up to us all and replyed to every question answered but unfortunately didn't answer many!! He was shown wanting when his own figures were quoted and didnt add up stating he prefered the figures he uses.
A frustrating meeting, not only us (the bikers) but two other groups equally didnt have some very good questions answered.
He clearly stated that he considers ACC an insurance company and repeatedly compaired us to Australia........who's betting ACC gets sold the Aussies then?
On some points he was made to look wanting and one question he simply stayed quiet!
The bloke is a true politician, frustrating, arrogant and can talk for ages whilst saying nothing at all.

The best bit of the whole meeting was when the compere gesticulated to a member of the audiance to speak into the microphone by giving him the 'blow job' sign fukin hillarious...........I guess you had to be there.

[gilly]

Sorry to have not been there to add to the numbers.
It's 10.30pm and I'm still at work (been here since 7am), just putting the newspaper to bed now. :woohoo:

[PZR]

I was there, I saw. How did it go I hear you ask. Not too bad I know we got our point across. I give Nick Smith his due he fronted up and stayed the whole way through and answered most of the questions that were asked. We dominated the meeting about 90% of the time which was a great success. Other people asked about ACC counselling and I learnt more about climate change in an hour than I ever had before
It will be interesting to see what the media has to say. Don't be surprised if the lady from the group protesting against loss of ACC funding gets more coverage than us because the media is a fickle creature, but we will see.

Some really great points were made but I do not believe we swayed him one inch (YET) We will need to keep pounding away to make a sizable dent. It is like trying to convince a priest there is no god or as my son who came with me said, its like pounding your head against a brick wall. It hurts, it takes time, it feels good when you stop, but eventually you will get through if you keep trying.
Thank you to all for such a large turnout. We did good:rockon:

[PhantasmNZ]

Awesome guys - sorry I couldn't be there - was on a plane back from wellington (then in a cage on the motorway) at the time - but great turnout... hopefully little nicky is starting to get the idea that we're not going away...

[drummer]

Congrats to all.. the MC took it all very personally.. bit upset... but hes a junior as far as a thing like this is concerned and needs to know the difference between debate, politics and other things.. don't you Cyrus.. yes folks there is a atcher from the nats here... and they aren't happy!! Next step... to be advised...

Thanks everyone!!

Peter

[Mom]

I do wish I could be a fly on the wall. Will anyone be videoing things?


I got him to say he did not care about the submission process, and when I hit him about it he denied saying it :wacko:

He also is unconcerned about our anger and the impact it might have on marginal electorate seats. Hmmmmmm time to crank this puppy up a notch. I am being interviewed on morning report tomorrow. TV3/Prime and Radio Live were all there tonight.

[gijoe1313]

Guess we have to hit where it counts ... in votes! :pinch: Same load of bollocks he gave down in Wellywood. Have to admire him doing the broken record thing and saying a lot with out saying anything. Damn good points washed over him without fault ... until his defence got wore down and he started to slip up (and thus went back to say nothing!)

Just another skirmish in this engagement ... keep it up!

[drummer]

Short Circuit... thanks for turning up... loved the hat!

Peter;)

[drummer]

I got him to say he did not care about the submission process, and when I hit him about it he denied saying it :wacko:
.It eas on Camera and I asked the reporter from TV3 to note it which she did... Allan Peachey said that Nicksta regretted those words.. but I bet he still means it

Peter

[raster]

I think everyone did very well, it was not a very good night for Hon Nik.

I spent about 5 minutes talking with him before the meeting, I made sure he knew how I felt, he was attempting to convince me the higher CC bikes were always heavier and causes more damage.

He used the same argument in the meeting.:whistle:

[retro asian]

Haha, my old man just texted to say he saw me on Nightline.....

Footage is on the tv3 website now....


http://www.3news.co.nz/Nick-Smith-MMP-to-blame-for-ETS-deal/tabid/368/articleID/132013/cat/87/Default.aspx

[rachprice]

Just saw it on TV3 news....Hanne is famous!!

[raster]

Report on tv3 tonight.

Seemed to be a little more balanced than TV 3 has been in the past.

[PhantasmNZ]

I think everyone did very well, it was not a very good night for Hon Nik.

I spent about 5 minutes talking with him before the meeting, I made sure he knew how I felt, he was attempting to convince me the higher CC bikes were always heavier and causes more damage.

He used the same argument in the meeting.:whistle:

So now it's about weight - do these ridiculous justifications never end???? so of course - lets ditch the CC splits and go off kgs ????? @P(&U#(*$&I@#Y$^Y(*&

we need to replay that Nickism back to the media - hmmm straws... must clutch at them....

[raster]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Nick-Smith-MMP-to-blame-for-ETS-deal/tabid/209/articleID/132013/cat/87/Default.aspx

[gwigs]

Some pictures

[Conquiztador]

Proud of you guys!

http://www.3news.co.nz/Nick-Smith-MMP-to-blame-for-ETS-deal/tabid/368/articleID/132013/cat/87/Default.aspx

[retro asian]

Seemed to be a little more balanced than TV 3 has been in the past.

Well TV3 balanced it in our favour this time....

Love it how they played the bit of Nick getting pissed off at that lady, telling her to take a breath.... :laugh:

[PhantasmNZ]

Report on tv3 tonight.

Seemed to be a little more balanced than TV 3 has been in the past.

I agree :eek5: that's the best report I've yet seen from TV3 I think - I loved the inclusion of the "Nix figures are inaccurate" (who was that?) bit and the lack of rebuttals aired from the nixter

Loved the sexual abuse campaigners raising the banner in front of nick :)

Did anyone ask him how he reconciles his role a climate change minister with his agenda to price the most fuel efficient transport off the road?

[Chisanga]

Arghhh... saw my ugly mug far too many times in that report :argh:

[Mom]

It eas on Camera and I asked the reporter from TV3 to note it which she did... Allan Peachey said that Nicksta regretted those words.. but I bet he still means it

Peter



we need to replay that Nickism back to the media - hmmm straws... must clutch at them....

Three things I am taking away from that meeting tonight. Nick Smith openly declared ACC to be an Insurance Scheme! Oh really? I am sure others will be keen to hear about that. Nick Smith said clearly he did not care about the submission process! So, here we have the Minister saying on record that he does not care about the submission process, got to be a complaint in there somewhere, someone? Third thing, we actually managed to flumox him at times tonight. He made several notes, so I know he will be going back to his "advisors" and demanding that he never gets placed in that position again.

Nick Smith is unconcerned about the effect this will have on National come election time. We need to make sure he starts to be worried about it.

[Supermac Jr]

I shall continue my written campaign with big words/phrases like "intellectually and politically bankrupt philosophies..." %$&* em!!!

[Chisanga]

Three things I am taking away from that meeting tonight. Nick Smith openly declared ACC to be an Insurance Scheme! Oh really? I am sure others will be keen to hear about that. Nick Smith said clearly he did not care about the submission process! So, here we have the Minister saying on record that he does not care about the submission process, got to be a complaint in there somewhere, someone? Third thing, we actually managed to flumox him at times tonight. He made several notes, so I know he will be going back to his "advisors" and demanding that he never gets placed in that position again.

Nick Smith is unconcerned about the effect this will have on National come election time. We need to make sure he starts to be worried about it.

I think it was poor choice of words by the Nickster regarding not caring about the submission process. I think what he meant was that it didn't matter how the submission process was organised, most people do not like it when their levies are increased.... that's what I took from that statement anyway.

I agree that he seemed on the back foot in most of his responses... pretty simple for him... just repeat the same basic propoganda lines no matter what is asked.... I was quite interested to learn that a biker is more likely to be hurt if they ride a heavier bike..... I'm not sure a +- 50kg weight difference really matters when being hit by a two tonne car at 100km/hr :)

[Bodir]

Actually, the weight does not matter at all. Usually the rider is dislodged on impact anyway, who cares what the bikes damage is (in terms of ACC payment of course) :bash:

[Bodir]

A wise man once said:

"Even though all answers are responses, not all responses are answers. "


Thanks Nick for responding to my questions :whistle:

[Ozzie]

Well TV3 balanced it in our favour this time....

Love it how they played the bit of Nick getting pissed off at that lady, telling her to take a breath.... :laugh:

Think that was Crash wasn't it?

[twistemotion]

...I agree that he seemed on the back foot in most of his responses... pretty simple for him... just repeat the same basic propoganda lines no matter what is asked....

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth" - Vladimir Lenin

He will keep repeating those figures and "statistics".

[caseye]

OK so we had a damn good turnout for a week night.Ol Mr sMyth didnt have it all his own way and we collectively got some damn fine points to home base.
1/Nick Smith admitted that ACC is an Insurance company.

So now the Govt should be removing every vestige of ACC Levy from anything that it's ever been stuck in and then let ACC Insurance compete on the open market with all the Ozzy Insurance companies that want(Not) to come in here.
Or at least did want to come in here "if" ACC was prepared properly for them by National.

Do we want this? No we want parity with all other road users and for ACC to go back to it's originally intended purpose, no fault, total rehabilitaion and compensation for the general public in return for a ,no Sue, status quo.

2/Mr sMyth when presented from the floor ( a biker of course) with his own advisors figures regarding cost per accident was unable to justify any increase in the current ACC Levy.
So he stayed silent, his figures being 100% accurate while he is quoting them but unreliable and "Wrong" when they're quoted back at him.

3/Mr sMyth admitted on record and in front of hundreds that he didn't care how the ACC handled their submissions procedures.

This included the ACC Insurance company paying for full page adds in the countrys main newspapers stating their Biased case for increases using faulty and slanted figures and THEN inviting the General Public to make submissions before the cut off date.
That bloody money was given to them by us to Prevent Accidents and to rehabilitate anyone in need through injury or accident.Operative words here US, ANYONE, INJURY,ACCIDENT.
Not to be used against US to create bias and discontent among the general public.
The FACT (reported at the Wellington BikeOi) that there were over 2,750 submissions at that time, 90% of them being from motorcyclists has the ACC' Insurance company on the back foot.
So they happily forked over many thousands of taxpayers/ACC levied dollars to counter the huge,never before has this many submissions been made.
Particularly with so many against the proposals in a vain effort to justify their own position and to mkae it a little easier to simply Ignore the many thousands of negative submissions.
Mr sMyths position on all of this is 'that he doesnt care how they do it! Wow, we do.

4/ mr sMyth attempted to deny that BRONZ had agreed to meet with him and discuss active accident prevention for motorcyclists.

He was called out, as telling a blatant lie.
Both mr Key and mr Joyce had also been notified by BRONZ in the same email and in Fact had relpied to the effect that it had been received and was noted.

5/Neither mr sMyth or the esteemed councilor in the front row seemed to understand what we all mean't when we said that ACC payouts could be dramatically reduced if the Govt/appropriate councils simply better maintained their roads.

Making off camber corners go the right way, putting the right amount of the right sort of chip on a surface, SWEEPING off the roadway,the loose metal left by contractors who have no concept of what happens to the front wheel of a motorcycle when it slips on the damned stuff in a very tight corner.
All of these things contribute Significantly to the single vehicle(read motorcycle) accidents that mr sMyth alluded to.

6/CC rating is the only way that Govt has of differentiating (read, splitting
up) the 3 newly established classes of Levy that the Govt via ACC Insurance wants implimented.

This way they can make outrageous claims that somehow seem correct, for instance as mr sMyth stated," bigger bikes cost more, go faster, weigh more????? and cost 4 to 5 times more(his words) than cars to insure.Um scuse me but my 1000cc bike costs almost half of what my car costs to insure!Fully Insure that is.
We the motorcyclists attending this meeting are all able to give personal experience of mr sMyths figures being catagorically wrong.Not our fault, must be those pesky statisticians!

"BULLSHIT Mr sMyth go ask your experts , most crashes, scooters and up to 250cc, most expensive injuries, same groups, most expensive to "COMPENSATE", larger bikes.
This is where the Govt is going with this.
To all the other road users out there, be advised "YOU ARE Nickst"

We long ago realised where this is heading and we are fighting this one on your behalf too.
Some help(as was given by many National party members who did attend this meeting tonight) would be appreciated.

Our large presence at this meeting did surprise mr sMyth and the way we behaved in general terms I think won his grudging respect, as it should be said, we had to give him ours, for again staying the distance and not running for cover.
Well done to those who's points, Hit Home, you all know who you are and so do those of us who attended, thanks for speaking on our behalf and keeping this whole meeting sane and reasonable.
I was proud to be an Old motorcyclist tonight, we can do better and Mr Smith will come to his senses if we simply keep this issue alive and well under his A.R.S.E!

[scissorhands]

Wish they had some beers after

Couldn't believe how the Nickster lied blatantly to our faces, he must thinks were drongos....

Whats with his bright red face? Is he a pisshead?

[retro asian]

Wish they had some beers after

On the way out I overheard a cop say "I bet they are all going to the pub now"... ;)

[TOTO]

On the way out I overheard a cop say "I bet they are all going to the pub now"... ;)

well, he was wrong.

[Ixion]

Mr Smith is VERY angry! I spoke to him after the meeting, and got him to admit that he did indeed receive the BRONZ email agreeing to discuss his safety levy thing. (He says we set too many conditions - see the 'Ulysses' thred). He was very angry indeed. He says we are "not respectful"

He admitted that ACC is now an insurance company (and tacitly agreed it was done with his knowledge). He got VERY angry when challenged whether he had lost control of his protfolio to John Judge - and made a great point of assuring us he had "complete confidence " in JJ (you know what it means when a politician assures you he has complete confidence in someone!)

He admitted that he did not care about the submission process.

He got angry and rattled a numbe rof times - uncharacteristic in such an experienced politician. He's rattled.

[scissorhands]

The Royal Akarana Yauht Club with that broken window with the handee towel keeping it open and the pampas growing against some glass, with the weird retro 70's light fittings...the rape victim supporters with the big hairy bikers??? WTF? the nickster would have been turning a redder shade of pale if he had had time to let it all sink in:woohoo:

[Reckless]

Wish they had some beers after

Couldn't believe how the Nickster lied blatantly to our faces, he must thinks were drongos....

Whats with his bright red face? Is he a pisshead?

Mate he's a drinker and a heavy one I reckon!!

Now to the bullshit! I've never seen such a bullshitter in action. Things like I'm a hero for turning out and facing 5000 bikers at Parliament!! YEH right I thought, as if you had a choice! If you hadn't fronted to the biggest protest ever, your own leader and the press would have torn you to bits! Hero my Arse!
Secondly that scripted question thing he did before the floor was open to questioning what a pile of bullshit! "I'm glad you asked me that" he said a few times YEH right!
I did hear him defiantly say ACC was an insurance scheme, he defiantly stated the govt where not committed to the stepped levy on engine size saying it was only a recommendation by ACC, said he didn't care about the submission thing and it was gold when Hanne (I think??) had him stuffed with his own figures as on the TV3 article.

I think, he will think, he did quite well not unlike the debates in parliament.
It pretty much depends on how the media report it. The TV3 thing was quite good defiantly not on his side this time! I do think Nick sincerely believes his own bullshit but we got quite a few glimpses of what National think should be done with ACC. A no fault system and Woodhouse principles are long gone in their eyes. I wonder if Joe public really wants there ACC scheme turned into an Insurance company as with that must come the right to sue.

What a piss poor meeting it would have been without us there would have been bugger all people there if thats a National stronghold ?? Go figure??

And very lastly I'm gonna disagree a little with the good turn out comments here, I think 40 or so bikes is a bit low. Earlier here Ixion commented he wanted 100 bikes and for a city with a million people we should have been able to deliver for him. The only thing we have is our unity we must show it everytime or we are beaten. Other than that a damn good effort by all! :woohoo: Thanks to Ixion, Mom and all the speakers that had a go on our behalf 10 outa 10!
Just my 2c!

[idleidolidyll]

On the way out I overheard a cop say "I bet they are all going to the pub now"... ;)

I heard that too, I must have been right beside you.

The mindset is obvious

[Chisanga]

Whats with his bright red face? Is he a pisshead?

Ummm... he was sitting right in front of a red nautical light :) However, I noted that his hands were shaking throughout the entire meeting.... seemed to very nervous.... perhaps not expecting the meeting to be so dominated by us.

Although Nick's performance left a lot to be decided, the personal low-point of the meeting for me was the National-party woman in front of me saying under her breath (sarcastically) "Oh poor you... now shut up" when the lady was speaking about the effect of the ACC cuts to victims of sexual abuse. Some people just have no clue..

[RiderInBlack]

Well done Dudes and Dudettes. Wish I could have been there. Haven't seen anything on the Breakfast News about last nights meeting, mores the shame. So what the next move? Is there a possibly of working in with Rape Victim Group? Are their goals in relation to ACC compatible with ours?

[idleidolidyll]

Mr Smith is VERY angry! I spoke to him after the meeting, and got him to admit that he did indeed receive the BRONZ email agreeing to discuss his safety levy thing. (He says we set too many conditions - see the 'Ulysses' thred). He was very angry indeed. He says we are "not respectful"

He admitted that ACC is now an insurance company (and tacitly agreed it was done with his knowledge). He got VERY angry when challenged whether he had lost control of his protfolio to John Judge - and made a great point of assuring us he had "complete confidence " in JJ (you know what it means when a politician assures you he has complete confidence in someone!)

He admitted that he did not care about the submission process.

He got angry and rattled a numbe rof times - uncharacteristic in such an experienced politician. He's rattled.

Yes indeed, he is very rattled and he handled the night very badly.

In his answer to the very first question he said he preferred to "focus on the facts not the spin" but went on to produce so much spin it became obvious to all that he knew he was screwed.

Thanks to all those speakers on the night who prepared questions; some were excellent and in particular the guy who ambushed him as a cyclist AND motorcyclist calling for levies on cycling.

I came straight from work just to support the crowd but decided to have a dig as well. My point wasn't well made last night but my intent was only to rattle the bastard anyway.
I was quite happy to have him dismiss my words as 'conspiracy theory' but then to hear the issue of road conditions for bikers raised again and again.

I dunno about you but I was also amused when one of the National Party Members in the front row said they WERE sweeping the roads around Auckland. I didn't get the chance to answer her but it would have gone like this:

"Yes perhaps maam, but we don't care that Remmers roads are being swept to prevent stone chips on your Merc; we are concerned with the health and safety of motorcyclists on public roads where the road works are left unsignposted and in atrocius and crimally negligent condition"."

[ital916]

Yes indeed, he is very rattled and he handled the night very badly.

In his answer to the very first question he said he preferred to "focus on the facts not the spin" but went on to produce so much spin it became obvious to all that he knew he was screwed.

Thanks to all those speakers on the night who prepared questions; some were excellent and in particular the guy who ambushed him as a cyclist AND motorcyclist calling for levies on cycling.

I came straight from work just to support the crowd but decided to have a dig as well. My point wasn't well made last night but my intent was only to rattle the bastard anyway.
I was quite happy to have him dismiss my words as 'conspiracy theory' but then to hear the issue of road conditions for bikers raised again and again.

I dunno about you but I was also amused when one of the National Party Members in the front row said they WERE sweeping the roads around Auckland. I didn't get the chance to answer her but it would have gone like this:

"Yes perhaps maam, but we don't care that Remmers roads are being swept to prevent stone chips on your Merc; we are concerned with the health and safety of motorcyclists on public roads where the road works are left unsignposted and in atrocius and crimally negligent condition"."

According to mr smith the increased severity of injuries with a larger capacity motorcycle is from the weight of the bike when it falls on you. Guess youre fucked if you own a heavy bike, the weight of the 18 wheeler parked on your head though doesnt add anything to the severity of the injuries from the crash.

I wonder if he has ever even ridden a motorcycle.

[short-circuit]

It is a mistake to engage with him over any kind of segmentation - whether it be on the basis of displacement (cc) within the motorcycle group or whether it is between road users (bike, car, truck, cycle etc).

There should be no differentiation, and risk / blame should not come into it.

Do not stray from Woodhouse Principles!

As soon as we engage in arguments about risk, blame, fault or comparative levy increases, we have accepted the Government's premise that ACC is an insurance scheme.

[Voltaire]

I was at last nights meeting and I listened to the minister rattle off his lines.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he say:

There are 3 funds within ACC...

1.Your employer pays levies for accidents at work, and there is a sliding scale depending on whether you are a forrestry worker or office worker based on risk. ( I am self employed and have this chart).

2.You as an employee pay workers levies to cover non work accidents.
( like skiing, sports, cycling, DIY...etc)

3.Motorists pay into the road fund.( the road fund gets seperated into who 'cost' the most to rehabilitate.
************************************************** ********

Rant bit

How come the road fund is user pays and the workers fund is not.
To claim that car drivers are cross subsidising motorcyclists yet let workers pay for every other non work , non road accident is discrimination against motorcyclists clear and simple.
In todays Herald in the Business Section John Judge is quoted as saying

" It is not an expensive scheme. The underlying idea of having a no fault scheme.....is excellent"

Its not a no fault scheme...you are singleing out a one group of legitimate road users and penalizing them.
If it was a true no fault scheme all road users would pay the same or better still do away with the road fund and just have a non work related fund.
:angry2:

ITS DISCRIMINATION!!!!!!

[Dodgyiti]

Thanks to the bikers there who showed some respect to the gutsy girl, who was quite clearly not a public speaker, and allowed her to have a say on the sexual abuse changes within ACC.
A few of the (rich) general public around where I was sitting were openly ridiculing her and telling her to shut up. One woman sitting behind her actually said 'shut up'. Unbelievable.

She showed more guts than any of them (and I) could have mustered given circumstances.

That actually pissed me off more than anything else at the meeting.

[Voltaire]

Thanks to the bikers there who showed some respect to the gutsy girl, who was quite clearly not a public speaker, and allowed her to have a say on the sexual abuse changes within ACC.
A few of the (rich) general public around where I was sitting were openly ridiculing her and telling her to shut up.
She showed more guts than any of them (and I) could have mustered given circumstances.

That actually pissed me off more than anything else at the meeting.

The old trout sitting in front of us looked like she had sucked a lemon....she gave one of the banner holding girls a ' bit of a talking to" on the way out.

I'm glad I have an interest in motorcycles as politics is a pretty sad way to spend your life....surrounded by shallow self serving self rightious suck ups wanting to control others.:bash::bash:

[Kiwi Graham]

It is a mistake to engage with him over any kind of segmentation - whether it be on the basis of displacement (cc) within the motorcycle group or whether it is between road users (bike, car, truck, cycle etc).

There should be no differentiation, and risk / blame should not come into it.

Do not stray from Woodhouse Principles!

As soon as we engage in arguments about risk, blame, fault or comparative levy increases, we have accepted the Government's premise that ACC is an insurance scheme.

Mate,

He does not recognise the Woodhouse principals! He never even responded to a question on the principals!!
He considers ACC an insurance company now! But isnt offering 'no claims' dicounts!!!
He does not belive car drivers are a risk! He see's it as our problem,but isnt funding training!!!
He cant answer a straight question if his life depended on it. Because he has been well trained in BULLSHIT!!!

He does belive heavy bikes are a risk? Austrailians have told him so???
He does belive his own data? Dr Judge has told him so???
He does belive we should pay a massive increase? Again Dr Judge told him so??

The man is unable to think for himself and see whats right under his nose. he thinks so what if I piss off tens of thousands of bikers the Nats are still doing ok in the polls so fuck em.
What he doesnt realise is we are not going to go away, this effects more people (voters) than just those that ride these 'heavy killing machines' but everybody else in the bikers family and extended family. Like most poloticians he lives in a world devoid of reality, surrounded by advisers feeding him information that suits their brief.

To be honest when this all blows up in his face he will just walk away, shrug his shoulders and become a chairman of some board somewhere and suck more of our air out of the atmosphere without a second thought to the damage and grief he has left in his wake.

[Mom]

Thanks to the bikers there who showed some respect to the gutsy girl, who was quite clearly not a public speaker, and allowed her to have a say on the sexual abuse changes within ACC.
A few of the (rich) general public around where I was sitting were openly ridiculing her and telling her to shut up. One woman sitting behind her actually said 'shut up'. Unbelievable.

She showed more guts than any of them (and I) could have mustered given circumstances.

That actually pissed me off more than anything else at the meeting.

I was watching his face while that woman was talking, though it is not easy to see his eyes I am sure I saw him roll them. Makes me so angry to see that attitude. I dont care so much for myself, he can say what he likes to me I have a bit of an attitude anyway, but to see the scorn oozing from him last night showed me the caliber of the man.

[avgas]

Good effort guys.
After hearing what went down through here I am glad I did not turn up - I simply can not tolerate such pompous behaviour.
And with projects at work and exams/assignments looming over me - my fuse is far to short to deal politely with this.

Pat yourselves on ya back.
-Stew

[RiderInBlack]

Just finished watching the TV3 clip and they (TV3) are still not really getting the facts out there. Again it seems there was more to learn from having been there. Really wish I had been there.

[Swoop]

You can always tell when a politician is lying. Their lips move.

[Naki Rat]

Wish they had some beers after

Couldn't believe how the Nickster lied blatantly to our faces, he must thinks were drongos....

Whats with his bright red face? Is he a pisshead?

Typical of elevated blood pressure, which is worsened by alcohol consumption.


Mate he's a drinker and a heavy one I reckon!!

.....


Ummm... he was sitting right in front of a red nautical light :) However, I noted that his hands were shaking throughout the entire meeting.... seemed to very nervous.... perhaps not expecting the meeting to be so dominated by us.

.....

It would appear that Nix Myth is very stressed and reacts very badly to being taken to task by a meeting that is barely under control. Probably a fair chance of him 'falling over' (in a Len Brown sort of way)
if we can keep winding up the pressure on the man at every possible opportunity! Where are those thumb screws? :bash:

[MSTRS]

And very lastly I'm gonna disagree a little with the good turn out comments here, I think 40 or so bikes is a bit low. Earlier here Ixion commented he wanted 100 bikes and for a city with a million people we should have been able to deliver for him.

Careful!! There are some people around who will think you are 'attacking' them.
Voicing your disappointment over numbers is a personal insult. Apparently.

[MSTRS]

In other news...well done, guys. One would hope that the 'non-combatants' at the meeting just maybe heard the other side. One can hope, anyway.

[TOTO]

I want to know - why is Dr. Nick is being introduced as honourable ?

[Reckless]

Careful!! There are some people around who will think you are 'attacking' them.
Voicing your disappointment over numbers is a personal insult. Apparently.

I'm not attacking anyone, I am allowed an opinion, I am an Aucklander so I'm not mud slinging for the sake of it and it was a warm, dry, nice Auckland night. If we become the passionate few we will get ignored, leave it to those guys won't work in this situation. It was not a big hall and we should have packed it out overflowing into the carpark. And we only needed another 20-30 bikes to completely pack the carpark (and the hall) as we deliberately took one full space each. It would have been a much stronger message to Nick Smith and the media.
I stand by it.

[avgas]

I want to know - why is Dr. Nick is being introduced as honourable ?

They get to keep that until they are formally convicted.
That is why we still have an Hon Tuariki Delamere



....
He hasn't been caught yet :bash:

[gwigs]

I want to know - why is Dr. Nick is being introduced as honourable ?

I think it means we should respect him...:puke:
Pretty hard to respect a lying toerag like him..:angry2:

[avgas]

I'm not attacking anyone, I am allowed an opinion, I am an Aucklander so I'm not mud slinging for the sake of it and it was a warm, dry, nice Auckland night. If we become the passionate few we will get ignored, leave it to those guys won't work in this situation. It was not a big hall and we should have packed it out overflowing into the carpark. And we only needed another 20-30 bikes to completely pack the carpark (and the hall) as we deliberately took one full space each. It would have been a much stronger message to Nick Smith and the media.
I stand by it.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda......
I believe you only hurt yourself by not letting go - but feel free to prove me wrong

[Usarka]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10612689


They wanted to know why riders of the 600cc-plus bikes were being hardest hit by the proposed new levies.

Dressed in fluoro vests, the bikers shouted Mr Smith down as he attempted to answer their questions.

[Reckless]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda......
I believe you only hurt yourself by not letting go - but feel free to prove me wrong

Good point! LOL!! I was tempted, an I bit! It was only one response! Nuff said!

[short-circuit]

I'm not attacking anyone, I am allowed an opinion, I am an Aucklander so I'm not mud slinging for the sake of it and it was a warm, dry, nice Auckland night. If we become the passionate few we will get ignored, leave it to those guys won't work in this situation. It was not a big hall and we should have packed it out overflowing into the carpark. And we only needed another 20-30 bikes to completely pack the carpark (and the hall) as we deliberately took one full space each. It would have been a much stronger message to Nick Smith and the media.
I stand by it.

Worrying - the attrition this early.

Definitely another major national scale protest needed around Christmas for both maximal disruption / exposure and to combat apathy and disengagement.

Would also be nice to implant an association in people's conciousness linking a ruined holiday to the National Party's pig headed and unwarranted reforms

[k2w3]

Don't forget the Hon. Hone Harawira. I guess you can be an honourable racist.

[Bodir]

Meanwhile, a speech by ACC Minister Nick Smith to party faithful in Auckland last night was gatecrashed by about 100 angry bikers.

Mr Smith was giving a speech on the environment when the bikers turned up at the Royal Akarana Yacht Club on Tamaki Drive.

They wanted to know why riders of the 600cc-plus bikes were being hardest hit by the proposed new levies.

Dressed in fluoro vests, the bikers shouted Mr Smith down as he attempted to answer their questions.

Nice one Herald, have they been there and listened? This sounds like we entered after the meeting started and shouted at him. No mention of us being at a public meeting asking questions about ACC and its future. A sad day for this paper. :scratch:

[DidJit]

Worrying - the attrition this early.

Definitely another major national scale protest needed.

Yes and yes. What is needed most of all, though, is the greater public not only realising the scale and intent of the government's changes, but actually voicing their displeasure at such changes in a way that cannot be ignored by anyone (i.e. the smiling merchant banking assassin).

At the moment, it seems we are playing into the government's hands when the media are only focusing on "bikers" and "motorcyclists" and "their concerns over ACC levy increases." Because the media haven't developed the story to get to the real issue and keep repeating the same titbits, it seems to me, that marginalizes us, writes us off, makes us seem... a minor irritant. The real message — the destruction of ACC which affects all NZers — needs to be covered and hammered home again and again.

Unfortunately, while I can identify the problem, I cannot think of a solution right now — and that is extremely frustrating and irritating for me.

[mikeey01]

anyone got Mathew Dearnaley's e-mail address?

[DEVVIL]

Worrying - the attrition this early.

Definitely another major national scale protest needed around Christmas for both maximal disruption / exposure and to combat apathy and disengagement.

Would also be nice to implant an association in people's conciousness linking a ruined holiday to the National Party's pig headed and unwarranted reforms

They will all be on holiday and wont care. It needs to be before the christmas holidays. Rolling road blocks anyone! Ride to rule.:angry2::scooter::scooter::scooter::scooter:: scooter::scooter::scooter:

[Bodir]

My e-mail to the Herald (Mathew's is at the bottom of the article)


Just read your article about the gatecrashing bikers at the National Party meeting. One question, were you actually there, and if so did you listen to what happened? I for instance (the second to last speaker) did not get any answers from Nick even though showing him his lies. He just evaded mine like everybody else's. I am very concerned about your style of writing. Accusing normal people of gatecrashing a public meeting that even the MC welcomed in his opening speech is a very interesting approach. All the questions asked are not even mentioned in your article. Do you seriously believe your article is truthfully representing what happend at the meeting? Please explain to me what your motives are behind this article so that I can better understand it.

Thank you for your time

[phred]

Mr Smith is VERY angry! I spoke to him after the meeting, and got him to admit that he did indeed receive the BRONZ email agreeing to discuss his safety levy thing. (He says we set too many conditions - see the 'Ulysses' thred). He was very angry indeed. He says we are "not respectful"

He admitted that ACC is now an insurance company (and tacitly agreed it was done with his knowledge). He got VERY angry when challenged whether he had lost control of his protfolio to John Judge - and made a great point of assuring us he had "complete confidence " in JJ (you know what it means when a politician assures you he has complete confidence in someone!)

He admitted that he did not care about the submission process.

He got angry and rattled a numbe rof times - uncharacteristic in such an experienced politician. He's rattled.

Fucking good job. No sympathy for him.

Thanks Ixion

[k2w3]

Ditto. Good that he's rattled. He fucking should be.

[RiderInBlack]

The real message — the destruction of ACC which affects all NZers — needs to be covered and hammered home again and again.

Unfortunately, while I can identify the problem, I cannot think of a solution right now — and that is extremely frustrating and irritating for me.Exactly, and it worries me as well as to how we wake-up the rest of NZ to the fact that this does effect them big-time too.
Only two days ago I was discussing the ACC Levies issue with someone who works with Building Insurance, and he was surprised that he didn't know that ACC had made a Billion dollar profit last year and had 11 Billion in assets. He like most suckers out there are still buying into the Nick's Myth that ACC is broke and in Trouble.

[phred]

I'm not attacking anyone, I am allowed an opinion, I am an Aucklander so I'm not mud slinging for the sake of it and it was a warm, dry, nice Auckland night. If we become the passionate few we will get ignored, leave it to those guys won't work in this situation. It was not a big hall and we should have packed it out overflowing into the carpark. And we only needed another 20-30 bikes to completely pack the carpark (and the hall) as we deliberately took one full space each. It would have been a much stronger message to Nick Smith and the media.
I stand by it.

There's still plenty more work to do. Everyone will have an opportunity to take part.
The key:puke: thing is for the momentum to keep going probably right up to election time.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

My personal opinion is we should start targeting John Keys meetings as well. And putting presure on him to look at all the figures that are not adding up.

[mikeey01]

To the Herald


Good morning team,

So what is this balance?

A journalist, any journalist in fact, has a massive social responsibility in presenting the facts and a balanced article / story.
Certainly of late and on the increase is anything but, balance.

I have noted in most articles posted on line and in print by the Herald, their views are clear enough, but certainly pointed, at anything but this “balance”.
I'm angry because the paper cannot see what is coming, it cannot look a little further into a story and see the truth that is slowly emerging.

What is really going on? most cannot see the bikers are standing up for something, yet like a ripple under the water, there lies something much larger.
ACC levies are on the increase for everyone, not just the bikers, but anyone who partakes in any activity with an element of risk. What's worse is the Herald cannot see anything under these ripples, ignorance or incompetence?
I ponder!

Mr Smith has let slip a few wee tid bits, in the past (ignoring the Muldoon years) any journo worth his or her salt would be onto these statements like a robbers dog. “Private Insurance” “Appointing blame” are but a few.

I do not know the full story of what our government is up to, but for well over twenty years I along with many other New Zealanders have relied on a journo to un-cover the turth, present a better picture to the population of readers so it could be understood.

Moving forward, what does the future journalist at the herald look into? The real truth and digging deeper into a story? or much the same as in the past?

So what's this “Balance”. Today, I advised our paper buyer to cease buying any further copies, I have also advised my team to cancel any future purchase of this paper too. No longer will I read such ignorance from what once was a great paper. Balance!

[Reckless]

My personal opinion is we should start targeting John Keys meetings as well. And putting presure on him to look at all the figures that are not adding up.

You may have a very valid point, more media response with Key as well!!
Here's a theory?
A few of us where discussing if given all the difficult portfolios Nick Smith has been given whether or not he's a sacrificial lamb for the National govt and will die on his own sword as a parliamentarian after pushing thorough all these unpopular bills and will then move onto a plumb job as a commissioner or some other high paying post overseas! Maybe he drinks to much (by the look of him) ? Maybe he's sick of the public life? Maybe the deals already been done!

If the above speculation is anywhere near correct then John Key is a very good option as you say!!

[firefighter]

Although Nick's performance left a lot to be decided, the personal low-point of the meeting for me was the National-party woman in front of me saying under her breath (sarcastically) "Oh poor you... now shut up" when the lady was speaking about the effect of the ACC cuts to victims of sexual abuse. Some people just have no clue..

So she a Nat member? Name her.


A few of the (rich) general public around where I was sitting were openly ridiculing her and telling her to shut up. One woman sitting behind her actually said 'shut up'. Unbelievable.

I would have ridiculed them back rather threateningly I think. Especially that bitch who told her to shut up.

I hope it actually happens to her and that Nat member above so they learn what it's all about....too bad karma is'nt that selective.

This makes me wish I had taken the night off just to have a word to those arrogant yarpies.

[Ixion]

My personal opinion is we should start targeting John Keys meetings as well. And putting presure on him to look at all the figures that are not adding up.

We are. Problem is he seems to have bugger all of them.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

So she a Nat member? Name her.


I hope it actually happens to her and that Nat member above so they learn what it's all about....too bad karma is'nt that selective.

This makes me wish I had taken the night off just to have a word to those arrogant yarpies.


As someone that has been there i would not wish this on my worst enamy.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

We are. Problem is he seems to have bugger all of them.

So when he does we need to make sure we are hurd and seen. Do you hear that kb no excuse's

[Reckless]

As someone that has been there i would not wish this on my worst enemy.

There where quite a few angry Rumbles in the crowd when that started happening and it was pretty soon knocked on the head. The young lady ended up having a very good say and they presented the banner to nick smith well, made a good political statement and got all her views across against ACC in the end!

[MSTRS]

As someone that has been there i would not wish this on my worst enamy.

I hear you. But sometimes, a sledgehammer is the best tool for the job.

[Max Headroom]

The Herald reporter's email address is at the bottom of the article. If you view it on-line, you can link to it directly. I sent him a response this morning too:


An excerpt from your article:
"Meanwhile, a speech by ACC Minister Nick Smith to party faithful in
Auckland last night was gatecrashed by about 100 angry bikers.

Mr Smith was giving a speech on the environment when the bikers turned up
at the Royal Akarana Yacht Club on Tamaki Drive.

They wanted to know why riders of the 600cc-plus bikes were being hardest
hit by the proposed new levies.

Dressed in fluoro vests, the bikers shouted Mr Smith down as he attempted
to answer their questions."

Matthew, I was one of the "angry bikers" you referred to in your article.
You published a slanted and factually incorrect picture of the event. We
didn't gatecrash the meeting - it was open to the public and we were
welcomed by Alan Peachey at the beginning of the meeting at 7:30pm. Nick
Smith wasn't giving a speech about the environment when we arrived at
7:15pm - the meeting hadn't begun yet.

You attempt to portray motorcyclists in a negative light, and have yet to
do any useful investigative journalism to establish the reasons for many
to attend the meeting last night. This is poor reporting.

If you wish to discuss this further, you're welcome to ring me on 021 XXX
XXX.

[MSTRS]

Keep your phone charged and close to hand....
yea right

[DidJit]

... Because the media haven't developed the story to get to the real issue and keep repeating the same titbits, it seems to me, that marginalizes us, writes us off, makes us seem... a minor irritant. The real message — the destruction of ACC which affects all NZers — needs to be covered and hammered home again and again.

Synchronicity (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10612629)... of sorts. Hopefully 'tis the beginning of some real digging by some real journalists.

[Katman]

I hear you. But sometimes, a sledgehammer is the best tool for the job.

Amen. :whistle:

[Chisanga]

So she a Nat member? Name her.

Obviously I cannot name her, it was an assumption on my part, informed by her being rather buddy-buddy before and after the meeting with some people wearing blue rosettes.

[Chisanga]

John Judge "The question I would have is whether the [regularly changing] Government is a good owner of a long-tail insurance scheme."

Hmmmm.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10612629

Edit: Noticed Hanne has already mentioned this in a new topic.

[White trash]

I'm amazed at the ammount of utter drible in the media regarding this meeting.

I listen to Big FM here at work (don't ask) and was intrigued by the young chicky reporting at great lengths about "the group of 100 angry motorcyclists who gate crashed the meeting and abused Nick Smith while he attempted to answer their questions"

TV3 report I saw on TV shows none of that and I'm pretty sure they'd be more interested in reporting the juicy stuff.

[MSTRS]

The perennial problem with the media is that their idea of 'juicy' is so far out of whack, it's not funny. Did we get to see Nick the Prick's eye-rolling response to the woman who stood up and announced she was a rape victim? Nope. The milage that would have generated if aired would be incalculable. But...nothing.

[FastBikeGear]

Thanks to all those speakers on the night who prepared questions; some were excellent and in particular the guy who ambushed him as a cyclist AND motorcyclist

Thanks mate!

[Dodgyiti]

There's still plenty more work to do. Everyone will have an opportunity to take part.
The key:puke: thing is for the momentum to keep going probably right up to election time.

I would have to disagree with that. If the people in power are going to have a holiday, then we should too. Come back refreshed when they do rather than get burnt out doing a heap of protesting that they simply will not care about over Christmas.. unless it is something major and that is hard to organise around that time of year anyway.

[Winston001]

Nick Smith openly declared ACC to be an Insurance Scheme! Oh really? I am sure others will be keen to hear about that.

Great turnout for the meeting and well done to everyone who attended. Nick Smith is getting the message even if he doesn't like it.

I'm not sure that the use of the word "insurance" by ACC will capture public attention. It is a type of insurance after all - you make a payment to cover yourself for an unknown future event. We don't like to think of ACC as insurance but it meets the definition.

As I've said before, in US states, people pay for unemployment insurance with their taxes and no-one objects. Lose your job and you get a weekly payment. No law suits, no no-claims bonuses etc.

[GOONR]

I'm amazed at the ammount of utter drible in the media regarding this meeting.

I listen to Big FM here at work (don't ask) and was intrigued by the young chicky reporting at great lengths about "the group of 100 angry motorcyclists who gate crashed the meeting and abused Nick Smith while he attempted to answer their questions"......

Does anyone know how the media obtain their sounds bites... It seems to me that there are probably one or two (possibly independent) reporters who show up then on sell their version of event's. If you read related article's but on different websites they are almost 'copy' 'paste'. As mentioned in various other threads, there seems to be very little real reporting / journalism going on here.

[MSTRS]

Great turnout for the meeting and well done to everyone who attended. Nick Smith is getting the message even if he doesn't like it.

I'm not sure that the use of the word "insurance" by ACC will capture public attention. It is a type of insurance after all - you make a payment to cover yourself for an unknown future event. We don't like to think of ACC as insurance but it meets the definition.

As I've said before, in US states, people pay for unemployment insurance with their taxes and no-one objects. Lose your job and you get a weekly payment. No law suits, no no-claims bonuses etc.

I'm not sure that he is. Or, more likely, he doesn't care.

The lay definition, maybe. true insurance is based on actuarily projected averages, factored by individual history or responsibility. EG - You keep your bike in a locked garage = lower premium (or excess).

So do we. Part of our PAYE goes to Winz for UB, so it's there if we need it.

[MadDuck]

The best bit of the whole meeting was when the compere gesticulated to a member of the audiance to speak into the microphone by giving him the 'blow job' sign fukin hillarious...........I guess you had to be there.


...was fine until you big, bad, angry bikers started giggling. That sent a chain reaction off I think!

Tops to those who asked the questions. Sometimes it was a bit tough to understand what was actually being asked.

[mashman]

The perennial problem with the media is that their idea of 'juicy' is so far out of whack, it's not funny.

I beg to differ (semantics). Mainly because "juicy" media is nothing but entertainment these days... and that's what people want from the TV/Radio/Film etc... It has no affect on people, i'm not talking desensitisation, more that the media is all about $$$... advertising, filling column inches with stories that are no better than those found in a glossy mag or a gossip column... Media is here to entertain, not to offer opinion, just to titilate, give people something to talk about, it's about papers sold, getting the best story for tomorrows fish and chip paper, making the good guy look bad, allowing you to "think" that you're with the herd, dumbing "news" down to a level that all can understand.

[k2w3]

Surely you jest? Hairy-arsed bikers don't giggle. I think you must have mistaken a chortle for a giggle.

[k2w3]

God, mashman, when you put it like that it's too depressing for words. The real newspapermen (of whom there are few) must be shaking their heads in dismay.

[Maha]

The best bit of the whole meeting was when the compere gesticulated to a member of the audiance to speak into the microphone by giving him the 'blow job' sign fukin hillarious...........I guess you had to be there.

I had to turn around at that point, highlight of the night...:niceone:


...was fine until you big, bad, angry bikers started giggling. That sent a chain reaction off I think!


I dunno, I saw a few smaller non-hairy bikers with the shoulder shakes also...

Damn that was funny, even a cop thought so....:cool:

[Ixion]

Great turnout for the meeting and well done to everyone who attended. Nick Smith is getting the message even if he doesn't like it.

I'm not sure that the use of the word "insurance" by ACC will capture public attention. It is a type of insurance after all - you make a payment to cover yourself for an unknown future event. We don't like to think of ACC as insurance but it meets the definition.

As I've said before, in US states, people pay for unemployment insurance with their taxes and no-one objects. Lose your job and you get a weekly payment. No law suits, no no-claims bonuses etc.

I don't think legalistic definitions actually matter here. My perception is that the public have established a dichotomy : ACC or insurance company. Insurance company isn't really a legal definition in this paradigm, it's an encompassing term for privatisation/user pays/selling bits off/higher levies/lower cover.

[k2w3]

I hate the word 'paradigm'.

[mashman]

God, mashman, when you put it like that it's too depressing for words. The real newspapermen (of whom there are few) must be shaking their heads in dismay.

I was cross at the time... needed a rant...

but where the hell did they go? No wars, no news maybe? Perhaps noone finding out what the people want, or they do and it conflicts with their views, heaven forbid one of them might actually have an opinion and disagree with someone...

[NONONO]

Does anyone know how the media obtain their sounds bites... It seems to me that there are probably one or two (possibly independent) reporters who show up then on sell their version of event's. If you read related article's but on different websites they are almost 'copy' 'paste'. As mentioned in various other threads, there seems to be very little real reporting / journalism going on here.

Gotta own up.
I 'hurled abuse" at him, even some 'obscenities" so the Herald report is only partially wrong.
I also managed a quick "fuck off" before leaving.
Childish? Give a fuck!
He lied, wriggled, blushed and lied some more.
Those women from Rape Crisis showed real courage confronting the bastard and he could only glare at them.
How about a fund raising collection for Rape Crisis at the next protest?
I was fascinated by the movie extra (security man in suit) who kept running up and down the aisle to my right. He really thought he was the star of the show!
Hey drummer, this time we were very polite....next time it's all fair game.
Time to up the anti.

[idleidolidyll]

I beg to differ (semantics). Mainly because "juicy" media is nothing but entertainment these days... and that's what people want from the TV/Radio/Film etc... It has no affect on people, i'm not talking desensitisation, more that the media is all about $$$... advertising, filling column inches with stories that are no better than those found in a glossy mag or a gossip column... Media is here to entertain, not to offer opinion, just to titilate, give people something to talk about, it's about papers sold, getting the best story for tomorrows fish and chip paper, making the good guy look bad, allowing you to "think" that you're with the herd, dumbing "news" down to a level that all can understand.

close but no cigar: the media exists to make money and that is the key

they don't make money off subscriptions; they make money off advertising and that will always be where their allegiences lie

If the corporates want the media to give our story air; that's what will happen

they influence by withdrawing advertising or with the implied threat of it


Perhaps we should be sending bulk mail to Fulton Hogan etc: all the roading contractors and councils who don't sweep up after themselves voicing our anger.

after all; the motorcycle road toll would be a lot lower if the roads were safe for us

[twistemotion]

Here's my email to Mathew Dearnaley, the Herald (mis)reporter:

Hi Mathew, I found your article in today's paper - "Slight ACC easing won't stop bikers" lacking in proper journalism.

I assume you were not present at the meeting at the yacht club, judging by the way you reported about it. I suggest you improve the accuracy of your reporting.

There were some very pertinent questions being asked of Nick Smith at the meeting, and all you did was quote government press releases and tarring motorcyclists as "gate crashing" (it was a public meeting) and "shouting". It's just lazy reporting, and you are missing the point that ACC is changing in a fundemantal way that will affect ALL New Zealanders.

Forget about the amount of the levy rises, and look deeper into the meaning of the disproportionate levies and proposed ACC changes before the select committee, as well as the subtle hints that indicate the change that National intend to make to ACC. That is of course, if you are willing to put a little effort into journalism, instead of just mindlessly quoting dubious government statistics and press releases.

Actually, just use Google to find out what's really happening, investigate that, and add some real value for a change.

[idleidolidyll]

How about a fund raising collection for Rape Crisis at the next protest?


Bloody good idea

Make a spectacle of it in front of one of them (Smith, Key etc): I'll chuck in my $20

Bikers support other ACC clients ripped off by Nationals changes to ACC

[flyingcrocodile46]

I agree :eek5: that's the best report I've yet seen from TV3 I think - I loved the inclusion of the "Nix figures are inaccurate" (who was that?) bit and the lack of rebuttals aired from the nixter

Loved the sexual abuse campaigners raising the banner in front of nick :)

Did anyone ask him how he reconciles his role a climate change minister with his agenda to price the most fuel efficient transport off the road?


:laugh: That was probably me. Explaining how his claim that every other motorist would have to pay an extra $77 was bollocks... I played his game a bit by overstating our existing contribution by $6 million and claimed the remaining shortfall of $43.5 million ($6 mill light) divided by the 2584509 registered light passenger vehicles was $16.85 not the $77 that he claimed car drivers would have to pay for our share. I should have made a big deal about how that was obviously a lie that was designed to alienate car drivers from our cause.:doh:

I then claimed that if the shortfall had to be funded by motorcycle registration increases for the 75140 registered bikes (not sure that shouldn't be 105000??) that the total levy increase only needed to be $85... not the $498 he claimed. However that was a bullshit claim as it is closer to $385. He didn't pick it up... I don't think anyone did.:lol: Goes to show that it isn't just ministers that can get away with publicly quoting bullshit figures if they do it enthusiastically. :killingme

[Pixie]

I hate the word 'paradigm'.

Meyer: Excuse me, but "proactive" and "paradigm"? Aren't these just
buzzwords that dumb people use to sound important?
[backpedaling] Not that I'm accusing you of anything like that.
[pause] I'm fired, aren't I?
Myers: Oh, yes.

[flyingcrocodile46]

One point that came out of the meeting that I had only suspected.. it appears (as it was uncontested when I suggested it was the case... cunt wouldn't answer the direct question emphatically) that the $62500000 against the motorcyclist account not only covers claims made this year, but also all ongoing payments (relating to motorcycle accidents) for claims made in earlier years. (these may even include claims from the very first ACC year)

We are being asked to pay forward (perhaps for several years) to cover all potential future ACC costs related to accidents occurring in the current year. Smyth says we should do this as it wouldn't be fair to lumber future generations with those costs.

WELL WHAT ABOUT BEING FAIR TO THIS FUCKING GENERATION???
Is it fair that we should have to pay for costs arising from historic claims, current claims and future claims???

FUCK NO

[Ronin]

I hate the word 'paradigm'.

Hate..... Now there's a paradigm I can get into.

[drummer]

Did anyone ask him how he reconciles his role a climate change minister with his agenda to price the most fuel efficient transport off the road?I had my hand up.. the MC and my local wbranch chairman who apparently now has a vendetta against me wandered down from his throne and told me I couldn't ask another question.. when I told him the question his reply sounded something like urghhhhh. It seems Cy didn't like me calling him politically weak... taken it too personally... msg to Cy... grow up coz I know you have the forum on watch... He allowed several multiple questions... reckon Cy needs to retire from politics... it only gets harder

Hence... assumption... local branch does NOT care about the environment/bike related issue folks... time for action anyone?

Peter

[flyingcrocodile46]

Is "Cy" the one that was showing off his pole smoking technique?

Yeah mate! He had it down pat. The front benchers must love him MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[drummer]

Is "Cy" the one that was showing off his pole smoking technique?

Yeah mate! He had it down pat. The front benchers must love him MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHACyrus was the MC.. the self proclaimed "Parky". He is actually a nice Christian bloke.. but is in my opinion politically way over his head... I just hope he realises that politics is rough and if you take it personally it will throw you. So far he has had the reins of a "yes man" branch... when I came along and challenged it to be more open and far thinking.. bang I was gone.. I have tried to remain friends with Cy but for other reasons.. politics is dirty folks.. but should be left at the debating table...

I also thought Nick Smith took it personally.. Allan Peachey as the best in my opinion and he was glad to see us all there...

Peter

[Subike]

Well I think this was more of a succes than you guys think.
Media attitude is changing towards bikers, im sure of this.
we have been on the news in one way or another as protesters for how long now? every week, once twice even three times on national television.
And im sure it is more, three times today alone!
Im sure that Joe Public has just got to be curious.
If these bikers are in the wrong, where are the police????????
But But But they are just noisey celf centered bikers.....
Where is the riot squad seen at other protests in the past?
Where are the plackards, the shouting of the other protests?
No
Joe public is starting to take notice, lots of notice.

If we bikers keep hitting the new desks, papers, and are in peoples face for the next few months, Joe Citizen is going to listen, because by then we will have the semblence of a political party, and they will start to question and listen..
Solidarity of the Polish workers under a comunist government bought it down by continuing against all odds, because they were in the right. So are we!

[MadDuck]

He is actually a nice Christian bloke..

Hmmm. Maybe explains why he didnt realise what his hand gesturing was? :laugh:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Hmmm. Maybe explains why he didnt realise what his hand gesturing was? :laugh:


Damn I would love to lay my hands on the TV3 film footage of the MC showing off his pole smoking technique while trying to signal a questioner that he needed to hold his microphone closer. :devil2: Imagine the fun you could have making a little clip with Nick reeling off his polished spin then switching to the MC enthusiastically gesticulating his approval of each line of bullshit.. repeat, repeat etc :killingme:rofl::killingme

Maybe I should apply for a press pass and do our own video of the question and answer sessions that we can then edit to create our own spin. We could upload it to the interwobble... LMAO

[caseye]

Go for it Croc, it's only a press pass for goodness sake.
Some have said Nick enjoyed last night, I thought initially that he'd held his own.Upon reflection I believe that Mr sMyth really did not enjoy his time in front of us and I hear that he further didn't enjoy being made to remember BRONZ's email to him, the one he Lied about not receiving in front of the whole place.
Down with Smith, down with Smith give us an ACC Minister who can count, add and subtract and use one set of figures and allow that if he can use them to make his points so can we!

[drummer]

Hmmm. Maybe explains why he didnt realise what his hand gesturing was? :laugh:He was in WAY over his head and flustered

P

[MadDuck]

He was in WAY over his head and flustered

Under the circumstances he did bloody well. It was not fair of the National Party to throw him in the deep end like that.

[drummer]

The part I loved amongst others was when counciller Toni Millar actually challenged Nickster about bicycle rego's.. shes in the same branch as the MC!! Go Toni.. they'll chuck you out now too LOL! Toni... Join us and bring Banksie along.. after all he rides a Harley and is in C & R.. like you what a hoot.. this branch can't be very united now!! An MC showing us how to do a blowie and a Nat Councillor challenging Smith re bicycles.. I am glad I'm not part of them.. time to change guard there away from apologists. The Nats don't need a bunch of fools and politically weak minded Chardonaay suckers.

Peter

[drummer]

Under the circumstances he did bloody well. It was not fair of the National Party to throw him in the deep end like that.
Not fair? he was looking fwd to it.. Its just hes politically weak in my opinion... he just sat back with no control...

Nice clean cut guy though.. hear that Cyrus? You are not the political animal you think u were! Taking things personally is so stupid... and not like u... like this Forum Cy?

Peter

[drummer]

Hey Short Circuit.. don't leave silly phone msg's please. my partner described u as an uncouth youth

Peter

[nosebleed]

ooooh the Drunk Dial.


Been beautiful watching this relationship grow.

[drummer]

ooooh the Drunk Dial.


Been beautiful watching this relationship grow.

Thats funny

P

[short-circuit]

Hey Short Circuit.. don't leave silly phone msg's please. my partner described u as an uncouth youth

Peter

I didn't. I think you went to the wrong public toilets before the meeting - didn't see you there. We were getting organised for the meeting, you were obviously cottaging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottaging) and giving out your phone number.

I noticed you used the term partner, but does he know about your adventures? The National Party is pretty conservative about these things y'know Bummer - maybe that's why you got given the arse from the Party so to speak

[drummer]

I didn't. I think you went to the wrong public toilets before the meeting - didn't see you there. We were getting organised for the meeting, you were obviously cottaging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottaging) and giving out your phone number.

I noticed you used the term partner, but does he know about your adventures? The National Party is pretty conservative about these things y'know Bummer - maybe that's why you got given the arse from the Party so to speakHad to see this one. If you didn't see me you were blind and deaf. I stood up and told my name... and even said I was an ex member of the Nats...

I saw you... not what I expected... but people never are out from behind their screens... funny isn't it.

Oh.. very funny joke mate about "him"... born comedian aren't you!

If it wasn't you then sorry... but to the person who rang my partner/wife you were too chickenshit to say who you were... I think with SS out of the picture it was a Nat member.. and I reckon I know who it was from further conversations with my partner. It was a cowardly act and one that i will track down and find out exactly who it was.. attacking me is one thing.. leaving messages with my family crosses the boundaries, and opens up that person for utter contempt and if indeed a Nat member, a report to the party about their behavior... especially as the person i now think it was is an office bearer... and in this case not the MC I believe... utter shame on you whoever your dirty face is...

Peter

[drummer]

I believe the lady who told the girl from rape crisis to "f**k off" may have been an exec member from these parts.. will investigate and try to find out who she was... that remark was a lowlight and the person concerned needs to know our outrage at her comments.. (lawfully and through the media) NO VIOLENCE OR ABUSE or we fall into the same category.. National members need to be aware that they are being watched and listened to... any comments from executive members negative to our cause need to be dealt with.. lawfully and through the right media channels of course.

Peter

[Gubb]

I think with SS out of the picture it was a Nat member..

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. A man that CAN'T GET A TWO LETTER ACRONYM RIGHT, is a raging cocksniffer.

[Bodir]

My e-mail to the Herald (Mathew's is at the bottom of the article)

Just read your article about the gatecrashing bikers at the National Party meeting. One question, were you actually there, and if so did you listen to what happened? I for instance (the second to last speaker) did not get any answers from Nick even though showing him his lies. He just evaded mine like everybody else's. I am very concerned about your style of writing. Accusing normal people of gatecrashing a public meeting that even the MC welcomed in his opening speech is a very interesting approach. All the questions asked are not even mentioned in your article. Do you seriously believe your article is truthfully representing what happend at the meeting? Please explain to me what your motives are behind this article so that I can better understand it.

Thank you for your time


And the answer just came in :first: (this is the full quote of the e-mail)


No, I was miles away from the meeting and don't know what you are talking about. Did you actually read the printed New Zealand Herald, or were you relying on the free online version, over which I have no control.
My report in the Herald newspaper was solely about the latest changes in the ACC board's levy recommendation, although there was a report report, under a colleague's byline, about the yacht club meeting.

Thanks

Interesting comment on the I have nothing to do with things that are signed with my name :nono:

Edit: E-mailed him back, will keep you posted if he replies

[k2w3]

That's just fucking idiotic, Bodir. I do not believe him.

[Bald Eagle]

And the answer just came in :first: (this is the full quote of the e-mail)



Interesting comment on the I have nothing to do with things that are signed with my name :nono:

Edit: E-mailed him back, will keep you posted if he replies

I got a similar response from him .
His response below :
Quote:
I suggest your read the printed New Zealand Herald, for which I work, to find that there were two separate reports touching on ACC. On, filed by me, was solely about the latest changes in recommendations from the ACC board.
Another report, about a meeting at the Akarana yacht club, was filed by a colleague.

End quote

Seems there are 2 Heralds. The printed one and the on-line one.

[k2w3]

Right, so he's happy to stake his name and reputation against someone else's sloppy journalism? Give me a break. Unless it was a genuine error, of course, and someone else's name should have been attributed to the online article.

[klingon]

I would suggest that this reveals a rift between the journalists (who work for the New Zealand Herald - i.e. the one printed on paper) and the editor of nzherald.co.nz (the one on your computer screen).

I would like to suggest that those who have had correspondence with Matthew D. should now email the editor of nzherald.co.nz and ask for a correction to be made so that the right by-line appears with the right article, as his/her actions are obviously reflecting poorly on the journalists concerned.

[Ixion]

It's called ghost writing.

Mat Dearnaley ahs been VERY supportive, lets not let one cub reporter's junior efforts lose us an ally

[Hanne]

GUYS!
Actually he is telling the truth.
I read the printed version yesterday and could not figure out why you guys were getting so upset until I looked online.

In the printed version there are 2 separate articles, side by side.
I'll see what I can do about scanning that so you can see the differences yourselves.

Mathew has done heaps to talk to bikers, come along to events and/or get in touch with us afterwards to write them up. And he has been very receptive when approached about upcoming events.

Also worth noting his other articles, and the fact his name has been removed from the online article.

[Bodir]

That was what I e-mailed him about as a reply. Making sure that he is aware that his name is used for something he has not written and the trouble that he could be in for during his career if he does not speak up to his editors.

[Bodir]

And the only sentence that is not private in the latest e-mail from Mathew (not taken out of content)


Seriously though, I have been in contact with the duty online editor, who says he has removed my byline from the story and reminded his staff to ensure future reports are correctly labelled.

He is a decent guy and I have asked him to forward my original e-mail to the culprit.

[Max Headroom]

I received a very reasonable reply from Matthew via email a short time ago in response to his online article.

I have just sent him a challenge (politely worded!) to take a look at the issue of cross-subsidisation, since the vast majority of us who own bikes also own cars. ACC's view of motorcyclists as a stand-alone roaduser group is very shortsighted. Guys like SpankMe who only own bikes are in a minority, albeit a minority who almost always own multiple bikes with multiple registrations.

As the National party are slowly discovering after the last few evening meetings, we aren't all knuckle-dragging lowlifes . . .

[drummer]

I received a not so polite answer... he claims his article about us gatecrashing was edited by someone else and attributed to him...

Peter

[drummer]

And the answer just came in :first: (this is the full quote of the e-mail)



Interesting comment on the I have nothing to do with things that are signed with my name :nono:

Edit: E-mailed him back, will keep you posted if he replies

Got the same reply... asked him if that was standard policy and whether he would sue the editor..

Peter

[drummer]

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. A man that CAN'T GET A TWO LETTER ACRONYM RIGHT, is a raging cocksniffer.
Really... and what was that in its finery? SS is my nickname for him... Cripes I hate explaining the bleeding obvious.

By the way you are on my ignore list but just HAD to see what drivel you posted this time.

Peter

[Ixion]

Some positive progress.

Email from Nick Smith

Replied to in similarly conciliatory tone

Read between the lines, I think.

[MSTRS]

Some positive progress.

Email from Nick Smith

Replied to in similarly conciliatory tone

Read between the lines, I think.

He's not going to back down. And he's not going to do deals.
Fuck him. He's a cunt. And a liar.

[Reckless]

Reading between the lines he's telling you to bugger off on all topics except injury prevention. Well that's my take on it.

Here's the letter so you all don't have to open the word doc

Les,

I owe you an apology regarding your statement about BRONZ’s attitude to participating in improved programmes for motorcycle injury prevention and my response late into Monday night’s pretty cantankerous meeting.

Your email of 18 November was one of the many hundreds my office has received on motorcycles and was in the process of having a response prepared. I had not yet seen it.

I had taken from our previous discussion that BRONZ was not prepared to engage unless motorcycle levies were the same as for cars. This is clearly not going to happen. I took this pre-condition to mean that, in effect, you were not interested in engaging further. Your email does not set that pre-condition and I welcome that.

The Government is currently considering ACC’s recommendations. I understand BRONZ’s, and other bikers, strong views on the levies and will take this into account in my recommendations to Cabinet.

I am keen to work with BRONZ on the ongoing issue of injury prevention regardless of this decision and will be in touch to advance the issues you raise in your email.

Yours sincerely,

Nick Smith

I reckon its a done deal as far as they are concerned, the final figures have been set already by the Nats.
Nothing will change now unless there is a full scale uprising of more than just bikers!
My 2c

[flyingcrocodile46]

Some positive progress.

Email from Nick Smith

Replied to in similarly conciliatory tone

Read between the lines, I think.


The words are average but really don't mean anything when coming from him (How else could he respond). He has very little credibility in my book. He'll get my respect when he gives a concrete undertaking to set the levies the same as for cars or agrees to use ALL of any moderate excess (above the car rate) to fund practical prevention initiatives revolving around improving car driver awareness of motorcycles along with setting up some base line conditions to improve road surface monitoring and maintenance by Transit NZ and Councils, and start prosecuting Cow Cockies who currently shit all over our roads with impunity. Setting in place A program to enforce and monitor annual rider training sessions would also be of benefit.

[Ixion]

I am somewhat more inclined to see an olive branch.

The email strikes a very different note to when I spoke to him on Monday night. Perhaps, we might cogitate on why that might be?

I will reserve judgement. The political world is seldom straight forward , or transparent.

Of course, we are not going to get what we want. Surely no-one expected that so soon. And what the final levy is set at is not going to make us happy. Surely everyone expected that?

But , remember, we have set this as a campaign of years, not weeks.

Our battle plan for the immediate present must be to stem the enemies advance. This is our Marne (but with bikes instead of taxis) .

I am happy with that email, not so much because of what it says, but because of what it implies.

[Maha]

Reading between the lines he's telling you to bugger off on all topics except injury prevention. Well that's my take on it.

I reckon its a done deal as far as they are concerned, the final figures have been set already by the Nats.
Nothing will change now unless there is a full scale uprising of more than just bikers!
My 2c

Money well spent. I/We will keep at it though, we have come to far to just lay over and say ''Ah fuck it''.

[Reckless]

Money well spent. I/We will keep at it though, we have come to far to just lay over and say ''Ah fuck it''.

oh shit mate I agree entirely!
The reason my post stops there is because I was going to go on to say time to "ramp up" the fight a few notches. But didn't want to get told to settle down LOL!!!
I'm in for anything! Sorry for not making that clearer!

[StoneY]

Bottom line is BRONZ has an open channel to Nick again


However, I reckon we still have to keep up the protests, keep up the PR and start INCLUDING all the other affected groups

BIKEOI II can include Unions, Public Transport operators, transport groups (truckies face huge levy hikes too)

Now BIKEOI is a 'brand' as such, why limit it to bikers?
Lets get an event on for Feb

Aim for 15000 attendance
Who's in?

If THAT dont work, we do it again in June, and every 3 months till the Nats give in

Same rules as last time, but we go LOUDER
Was talking to head of security at Parliament....we wont be denied access
:)

[short-circuit]

Had to see this one. If you didn't see me you were blind and deaf. I stood up and told my name... and even said I was an ex member of the Nats...

I saw you... not what I expected... but people never are out from behind their screens... funny isn't it.



Yes I saw you at in the meeting and heard your declarations - I said I didn't see you at the meeting place before hand where you could have set me straight on a few things.


And yes it is funny when you see people in person - that's why when you said someone was prank calling your "partner" I thought "Oh Bummer - definitely a cock smoker" (like his young MC friend).


Oh and if your prank caller isn't a Nat (although that kind of puerile beaviour wouldn't surprise me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carter_(New_Zealand))), my next guess would be this guy (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=21509)

[caseye]

I hope you are right Les, about the ministers tone changing and some progress being made.
He has still not said anything to encourage me or any other motorcyclist to think that the levy's may well be coming back down.
I will wait patiently until we know what Is happening.

[Max Headroom]

I believe one of our biggest challenges lies in removing the current focus on the bikes and bringing it instead onto motorcyclists as VOTERS.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Fuck waiting patiently. You'll most likely wake up to find him cleaning his dick on your curtains and it'll be too late then.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I believe one of our biggest challenges lies in removing the current focus on the bikes and bringing it instead onto motorcyclists as VOTERS.

For that to stick, we would need consistently huge turnouts so they can properly appreciate how many votes they will jeopardise. a turn out of 20 or 50 voters won't cut the mustard

[Kiwi Graham]

I am somewhat more inclined to see an olive branch.

The email strikes a very different note to when I spoke to him on Monday night. Perhaps, we might cogitate on why that might be?

I will reserve judgement. The political world is seldom straight forward , or transparent.

Of course, we are not going to get what we want. Surely no-one expected that so soon. And what the final levy is set at is not going to make us happy. Surely everyone expected that?

But , remember, we have set this as a campaign of years, not weeks.

Our battle plan for the immediate present must be to stem the enemies advance. This is our Marne (but with bikes instead of taxis) .

I am happy with that email, not so much because of what it says, but because of what it implies.

I'm going to side with a optomistic hope that Nick Smith is wanting to maintain contact.

In the end any acceptance has to come with both sides maintaining their mana and feeling they have achieved a result. This can only be achieved with dialog otherwise there are only winners and loosers! Great if your the winner but.............!

Let the spokespeople of the various biker groups do the negotiating and we the rest maintain the pressure and keep our struggle in the media.

[Max Headroom]

I recall seeing somewhere that politicians have some mechanism whereby every letter they receive from a member of the public is calculated to represent a certain number of voters who share the same sentiments, based on the fact that the majority of people are too busy/lazy/illiterate to write a letter themselves. Perhaps someone "in the know" could confirm this.

I would suggest that our sustained pressure by email, letter and meeting attendence will increasingly become a concern based on numbers alone.

[Mom]

Email from Nick Smith

Replied to in similarly conciliatory tone


He is attempting to appease the bikers that bit him on the bum on Monday night is all. That will have been written by his spin doctors Les, nothing about what he actually means. Good to open the dialogue again for sure, but dont think for one minute he actually means what he says.

PS: I love the word cantankerous. Have never been called that before :sunny:


However, I reckon we still have to keep up the protests, keep up the PR and start INCLUDING all the other affected groups....

Same rules as last time, but we go LOUDER
Was talking to head of security at Parliament....we wont be denied access
:)

I have never been more sure of protest action having an effect as I was on Monday night when we got Dr Myth on the back foot. Much, much more of that sort of thing is what we need to do.

Massive ride/drive into Wellington will work, but imagine of it happened in Auckland as well :innocent: Time for Nationwide finger uplifting methinks!


He has still not said anything to encourage me or any other motorcyclist to think that the levy's may well be coming back down.

This is the time to crank the pressure even more as far as I am concerned. We can not allow them to think we will relax. Some of us might, a lot of us wont!



Let the spokespeople of the various biker groups do the negotiating and we the rest maintain the pressure and keep our struggle in the media.

Absolutely! I am not planning to go away anytime soon.

[Ixion]

He is attempting to appease the bikers that bit him on the bum on Monday night is all. That will have been written by his spin doctors Les, nothing about what he actually means. Good to open the dialogue again for sure, but dont think for one minute he actually means what he says.

PS: I love the word cantankerous. Have never been called that before :sunny:

...

yes, of course it was written by spin dctors. But WHY do the spin doctors think it politic to try to calm us down?

There are a number of possibilities. I don't want to explore them here, too many snoops watching. We can all discuss it in meatspace.

But think about that question. Mr Smith , on Monday night is playing hardball. ACC come back with an unequivical "get fucked you horrible bikers". And the spin doctors persuade Mr Smith to send a calming email. I wonder why?

Think about it.

[Mom]

Think about it.

I am Ixion, I really am.

[MSTRS]

Think about it.

I have been, too. It hurts.

[scissorhands]

I think its a white feather to calm KB down. As being firm is ideal, and hard brittle things break when stressed

We dont need to be lulled into a false sense of security but we can pretend to be...

[martybabe]

He's not going to back down. And he's not going to do deals.
Fuck him. He's a cunt. And a liar.

Couldn't agree more, I'd certainly employ him as a defence lawyer,He's simply a bare faced, immoral, arrogant, purveyor of falsehoods for money and profit. I wouldn't trust the bastard with a $10 note never mind the future of ACC, BASTARD.



I believe one of our biggest challenges lies in removing the current focus on the bikes and bringing it instead onto motorcyclists as VOTERS.

I still think there's some mileage in this idea. They love pointing the finger at the scruffy oddball bikies as though that's all we are, some kind of slightly amusing/worrying underclass of people.

A subsection of society that no one really cares about, but we are fucking society, we have families and mortgages and cars...and votes. Maybe we should turn up in those cars, wear our suits and our uniforms our overalls and our swan drys, bring the kids and the grannies, have a picnic under the 'we ain't gonna vote for you Bastards' flags.

10,000 ordinary decent everyday New zealanders on parliament steps trying to save ACC from these money hungry politicians, never forgetting or betraying our routes though, I'm quite happy to stand there in my 'Normal Decent person' clothes and below BULLSHIT till I'm blue in the face.Corrupt money grabbing mudderfuggers :kick:

[martybabe]

I am Ixion, I really am.

You are not ixion, stop trying to confuse the old people!

[Mom]

You are not ixion, stop trying to confuse the old people!

Sorry :love:

[idleidolidyll]

Reading between the lines he's telling you to bugger off on all topics except injury prevention. Well that's my take on it.

Here's the letter so you all don't have to open the word doc

Les,

I owe you an apology regarding your statement about BRONZ’s attitude to participating in improved programmes for motorcycle injury prevention and my response late into Monday night’s pretty cantankerous meeting.

Your email of 18 November was one of the many hundreds my office has received on motorcycles and was in the process of having a response prepared. I had not yet seen it.

I had taken from our previous discussion that BRONZ was not prepared to engage unless motorcycle levies were the same as for cars. This is clearly not going to happen. I took this pre-condition to mean that, in effect, you were not interested in engaging further. Your email does not set that pre-condition and I welcome that.

The Government is currently considering ACC’s recommendations. I understand BRONZ’s, and other bikers, strong views on the levies and will take this into account in my recommendations to Cabinet.

I am keen to work with BRONZ on the ongoing issue of injury prevention regardless of this decision and will be in touch to advance the issues you raise in your email.

Yours sincerely,

Nick Smith

I reckon its a done deal as far as they are concerned, the final figures have been set already by the Nats.
Nothing will change now unless there is a full scale uprising of more than just bikers!
My 2c

The time has come to fuck up New Zealands traffic system!

[flyingcrocodile46]

The whole process has been a game (like the overcooked recommendations for playing catch up with Oz)

They are doing what any smart trader does. If $100 is your bottom line then start by asking for $500 and then convince the prospective buyer that you're a good guy by cutting the price by 50 or 70%.

Suckers fall for it all the time. Are you a sucker?

[jafar]

The time has come to fuck up New Zealands traffic system!

Too late !! It is already fucked up:doh:





:corn:

[NONONO]

The time has come to fuck up New Zealands traffic system!

Agreed.
If we think Nicklouse has blinked, even slightly, we should put the boot in hard. Just once (for now), but quickly.
If he plays tough after that we have lost nothing anyway, but he might just blink a second time!

[MadDuck]

I am not a public speaker. Never have been and never will be.

On Monday someone I work with turned up at the meeting on Monday as he wanted to hear Nick Smyth and what he had to say on the ETS. As he walked in he saw all the bikes and thought...hmmmm yes bikers and ACC. He agrees we are being targeted and is on our side.

He still ventured in and stayed for quite some time but his comment to me the next day was "Give the guy a change to at least answer the questions".

After an hour he left thinking what a waste of time.

[NONONO]

I am not a public speaker. Never have been and never will be.

On Monday someone I work with turned up at the meeting on Monday as he wanted to hear Nick Smyth and what he had to say on the ETS. As he walked in he saw all the bikes and thought...hmmmm yes bikers and ACC. He agrees we are being targeted and is on our side.

He still ventured in and stayed for quite some time but his comment to me the next day was "Give the guy a change to at least answer the questions".

After an hour he left thinking what a waste of time.

Giving a politician time to reply is like putting shit on roses, just makes them look better.

[MadDuck]

Just thought I would give some feedback on a "non bikers" view of the night.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Giving a politician time to reply is like putting shit on roses, just makes them look better.


:laugh::first:

[Bodir]

I would have gladly given him the chance to answer my questions. But he did just stare and then delivered a response, but no answer. We are talking Nick here! The answer to a Yes or No question from him takes 5 min. Nobody has that much time. :no:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Just thought I would give some feedback on a "non bikers" view of the night.

Fair call. We do need to be mindful of the public perception as it can be fickle and is easily and often manipulated <_<.

A slight emphasis by the media on any negative aspect of how we conduct ourselves would be very damaging

[mashman]

yes, of course it was written by spin dctors. But WHY do the spin doctors think it politic to try to calm us down?


They're not trying to calm us down. If they wanted to do that they'd sort the levy's. They're going to say to the public, look at the big bad biker man shoutng at me, making demands, we're just trying to be reasonable and, and, and, and... bad bad bikers!

that and there's a whole country about to get slapped, why the hell would they want them to join a group that's already potentially 10,000 strong...

[drummer]

Yes I saw you at in the meeting and heard your declarations - I said I didn't see you at the meeting place before hand where you could have set me straight on a few things.


And yes it is funny when you see people in person - that's why when you said someone was prank calling your "partner" I thought "Oh Bummer - definitely a cock smoker" (like his young MC friend).


Oh and if your prank caller isn't a Nat (although that kind of puerile beaviour wouldn't surprise me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carter_(New_Zealand))), my next guess would be this guy (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=21509)What things?

And no.. don't accuse Dean...

Peter

[drummer]

Les don't be fooled... this guy is as bad a minister as I have ever seen... he is a liar and almost borders on currupt.. we need to continue and increase pressure on ALL Nats... don't be complacent mate.. that letter was trying to win you with spin... a bad attempt at an apology.. and a rude statement about us at the meeting. We need to divide the Nats

Peter

[drummer]

Gnite all.. wow 100 posts up!

Peter

[drummer]

He still ventured in and stayed for quite some time but his comment to me the next day was "Give the guy a change to at least answer the questions".. we did... but he didn't.. he fudged his way through and became abusive as well at a few people... the girls from sexual crisis centre for one example..I have no time for him... hes got to go down the political drainpipe..

Peter

[drummer]

Agreed.
If we think Nicklouse has blinked, even slightly, we should put the boot in hard. Just once (for now), but quickly.
If he plays tough after that we have lost nothing anyway, but he might just blink a second time!
Agreed.. the media is our method... a vicious letters to the editor campaign for a start

Plus attack your local branch... make the party hacks, office bearers and hasbeens know that Nick Smith is poison to their party... trust me.. thats where the opinion counts..

Peter

[NONONO]

Sorry Drummer, was thinking more along the lines of blocking traffic and bringing Auckland to a stop.
Don't think a polite/or even impolite letter to the Nats will make a blind bit of difference at the moment, Nick showed us that with his "I don't care, it's not my fault" speech on Monday.
My opinion,
we think he has blinked with the letter to Les, king hit now, and see which way he falls. As I said, I don't believe we have anything to lose at this point.
Lets also be aware that we might just be pushing support ACTs way...Now that would be a nightmare of unimaginable horror.

[Pixie]

Although Nick's performance left a lot to be decided, the personal low-point of the meeting for me was the National-party woman in front of me saying under her breath (sarcastically) "Oh poor you... now shut up" when the lady was speaking about the effect of the ACC cuts to victims of sexual abuse. Some people just have no clue..
Next time someone hears such muttering (the sign of a coward),Turn around and say loudly:"Shut the fuck up you coward"

[Pixie]

I am somewhat more inclined to see an olive branch.

The email strikes a very different note to when I spoke to him on Monday night. Perhaps, we might cogitate on why that might be?

I will reserve judgement. The political world is seldom straight forward , or transparent.

Of course, we are not going to get what we want. Surely no-one expected that so soon. And what the final levy is set at is not going to make us happy. Surely everyone expected that?

But , remember, we have set this as a campaign of years, not weeks.

Our battle plan for the immediate present must be to stem the enemies advance. This is our Marne (but with bikes instead of taxis) .

I am happy with that email, not so much because of what it says, but because of what it implies.

An olive branch because he realises we are not going away and it may get worse,perhaps?

[short-circuit]

Sorry Drummer, was thinking more along the lines of blocking traffic and bringing Auckland to a stop.
Don't think a polite/or even impolite letter to the Nats will make a blind bit of difference at the moment, Nick showed us that with his "I don't care, it's not my fault" speech on Monday.

I've been saying this since October.

[Ixion]

An olive branch because he realises we are not going away and it may get worse,perhaps?

Or someone else does.

[drummer]

Or someone else does.Maybe John Key is starting to lose faith with Smith.. I can't see such an embattled minister keeping his job really.. and Les... i don't see that letter as anything but political claptrap mate

Peter

[drummer]

Sorry Drummer, was thinking more along the lines of blocking traffic and bringing Auckland to a stop.
Don't think a polite/or even impolite letter to the Nats will make a blind bit of difference at the moment, Nick showed us that with his "I don't care, it's not my fault" speech on Monday.
My opinion,
we think he has blinked with the letter to Les, king hit now, and see which way he falls. As I said, I don't believe we have anything to lose at this point.
Lets also be aware that we might just be pushing support ACTs way...Now that would be a nightmare of unimaginable horror.Ok.. first.. yes your ideas are valid and good but secondly politics and the attacking process on small non fulltime party branches are actually really powerful.. some like the MC's own branch are ripe for the picking... in fact I know some don't agree with this but here's an idea... If we can infultrate the Nats we could destroy branches and therefore support for them from the inside out... its a thought but I know I've been accused of trying to recruit.. however... spying and infultration is valid... Personally I would rather see Key than Labour but I want Smith gone and the Nats to rethink their policies on many things none the least ACC.. they ill be government for a while... thats probably a fact.. if we ignore that we are in my opinion missing an opportunity... Shorty.. you support and join Labour or whoever... fight the policies from their angle... but whatever we do... its good to be close to the action and change the guard... that would really shake them up trust me!

Peter

[BMWST?]

For that to stick, we would need consistently huge turnouts so they can properly appreciate how many votes they will jeopardise. a turn out of 20 or 50 voters won't cut the mustard

it will if they see 20 to 50 VOTERS evrytime they go somewhere...anywhere

[flyingcrocodile46]

it will if they see 20 to 50 VOTERS evrytime they go somewhere...anywhere


Yes! you are both right. It would have been more accurate to have said that it would work a hell of a lot better and faster with more numbers

[BMWST?]

Yes! you are both right. It would have been more accurate to have said that it would work a hell of a lot better and faster with more numbers

true...on the way to the meeting i passed many bikes going the other way...how do we reach them?

[flyingcrocodile46]

true...on the way to the meeting i passed many bikes going the other way...how do we reach them?


That is exactly what Max said yesterday :sick:

I dunno. Some people are only interested in themselves and the here & now.

Guy I work with has a BMW Rockster that he rides about once a month, but fancies himself as a biker :tugger: He can barely find enough interest to talk about it. Tried to get him along to Mission Bay. :no:

Anyway, it isn't just us bikers that stand to get shafted. It's everyone. Apathetic drones abound.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok.. first.. yes your ideas are valid and good but secondly politics and the attacking process on small non fulltime party branches are actually really powerful.. some like the MC's own branch are ripe for the picking... in fact I know some don't agree with this but here's an idea... If we can infultrate the Nats we could destroy branches and therefore support for them from the inside out... its a thought but I know I've been accused of trying to recruit.. however... spying and infultration is valid... Personally I would rather see Key than Labour but I want Smith gone and the Nats to rethink their policies on many things none the least ACC.. they ill be government for a while... thats probably a fact.. if we ignore that we are in my opinion missing an opportunity... Shorty.. you support and join Labour or whoever... fight the policies from their angle... but whatever we do... its good to be close to the action and change the guard... that would really shake them up trust me!

Peter

yes, and joining the AA to take over the comittee there would also mean motorcyclists get a fair voice instead of the bullshit we currently hear from that org

How many members here are also AA members?

I am, that's 1

[flyingcrocodile46]

yes, and joining the AA to take over the comittee there would also mean motorcyclists get a fair voice instead of the bullshit we currently hear from that org

How many members here are also AA members?

I am, that's 1

Lol. Everyone seems to be quitting their memberships at the moment, though your idea has a lot of merit. Can it be done though? Are they structured for membership governance or do they have a toothless committee?

[MSTRS]

yes, and joining the AA to take over the comittee there would also mean motorcyclists get a fair voice instead of the bullshit we currently hear from that org

How many members here are also AA members?

I am, that's 1

Quite a few signed up, for that very reason. The upshot was that it was more effective to then resign, and tell them why.
Much more powerful than a couple of voices that may or may not get to speak at an AGM.

[idleidolidyll]

Lol. Everyone seems to be quitting their memberships at the moment, though your idea has a lot of merit. Can it be done though? Are they structured for membership governance or do they have a toothless committee?

i'm not sure but as i said some time ago, it worked in the past (well the threat worked)

back in the early 90's, the Chch Car Club who had been appointed principal hirers of Ruapuna by the owner, Chch City Council, had decided that they would massively increase the track fees for motorcyclists (mainly BEARs).

The BEARs, who are VERY strong down that way had a meeting in which we decided to pay for Chch Car Club membership from our apr $30,000 bank account and then attend the next comittee meeting en masse to vote no confidence and elect all our own guys in.

The word got out before we had to do anything and the car club backed right the fuck down

All bikers already members should send mail to the AA protesting the anti bike rhetoric and advise that they will all vote against any leader who uters such bullshit.

The next step may be similar to the above if their 'democracy' allows it

[flyingcrocodile46]

i'm not sure but as i said some time ago, it worked in the past (well the threat worked)

back in the early 90's, the Chch Car Club who had been appointed principal hirers of Ruapuna by the owner, Chch City Council, had decided that they would massively increase the track fees for motorcyclists (mainly BEARs).

The BEARs, who are VERY strong down that way had a meeting in which we decided to pay for Chch Car Club membership from our apr $30,000 bank account and then attend the next comittee meeting en masse to vote no confidence and elect all our own guys in.

The word got out before we had to do anything and the car club backed right the fuck down

All bikers already members should send mail to the AA protesting the anti bike rhetoric and advise that they will all vote against any leader who uters such bullshit.

The next step may be similar to the above if their 'democracy' allows it

:laugh::lol::killingme:rofl:

[Kiwi Graham]

Just written to them and given them 1 week to change their stance and support us otherwise that will be 4 cars, two motorbikes and a campervan they loose.

[caseye]

Enough of us do this they'll begin to get the message , loud and clear, we're losing Long time members whose motorcycles we've insured who are taking thier business elsewhere! WHY?

[drummer]

yes, and joining the AA to take over the comittee there would also mean motorcyclists get a fair voice instead of the bullshit we currently hear from that org How many members here are also AA members? I am, that's 1
Dam fine idea... the AA has been a little quiet on the ACC front... OK.. I also wonder if the AA could have a M/C sub branch... Plus the Vintage car Club of NZ.. my Dad was a very early member... they have a very large M/C membership... whats their stance...? BTW.. saw the MC come branch prezzie today... non talker to me... really pissed off about Monday night... and I mean REALLY! I also asked another Nat about the lady behind the rape crisis girls who told them to basically F off.. he was pissied off about it and was at the meeting.. e may be able to find out who she as if anyone's interested

Peter

[NONONO]

Ok.. first.. yes your ideas are valid and good but secondly politics and the attacking process on small non fulltime party branches are actually really powerful.. some like the MC's own branch are ripe for the picking... in fact I know some don't agree with this but here's an idea... If we can infultrate the Nats we could destroy branches and therefore support for them from the inside out... its a thought but I know I've been accused of trying to recruit.. however... spying and infultration is valid... Personally I would rather see Key than Labour but I want Smith gone and the Nats to rethink their policies on many things none the least ACC.. they ill be government for a while... thats probably a fact.. if we ignore that we are in my opinion missing an opportunity... Shorty.. you support and join Labour or whoever... fight the policies from their angle... but whatever we do... its good to be close to the action and change the guard... that would really shake them up trust me!

Peter

Now I warned you bout this, did I not?
Will have to have a word with Paste and Zildjun and get you struck off.
I would rather boil in my own piss than join the Nats...and you know this.
You did a decent job proposing the meeting last Monday,,,grudgingly well done.
But what a bunch of low life fuck wits. If that's the caliber of National, how the fuck did they win the last election?
Lets keep on keeping on, let's not forget who the enemy is, ACC and the National Party.

[Ixion]

yes, and joining the AA to take over the comittee there would also mean motorcyclists get a fair voice instead of the bullshit we currently hear from that org

How many members here are also AA members?

I am, that's 1

I am for this very purpose . That's two . AA don't care if we resign , we're maybe 2% of their membership. But if only1% of their membership vote at AGM, 2% could take over the organisationb

[drummer]

Now I warned you bout this, did I not?
Will have to have a word with Paste and Zildjun and get you struck off.
Don't want me to go all crazy on the Nats do you?
I would rather boil in my own piss than join the Nats...and you know this.
You did a decent job proposing the meeting last Monday,,,grudgingly well done.
But what a bunch of low life fuck wits. If that's the caliber of National, how the fuck did they win the last election?
Lets keep on keeping on, let's not forget who the enemy is, ACC and the National Party.
LOL the Zildjun's for me! They wouldn't cast me off.. been using them for 32 years!

My enemy if you do want to use that word isn't actually the Nats as a whole party.. its Nick Smith directly because he is a liar and hes playing us like fools... we need to make Key fire him and convince the Nats that our vote counts .. people within a party one may otherwise support can be your so-called enemy.. in fact the worst enemy is the one in your own party who doesn't agree with you... For the record I would rather see Key than Goofy but the Nats need to totally change their attitude... they at the moment are unfit to govern in several areas..

My other "enemy" is John Judge... now hes a real dodo... and should be made extinct! Trying to convince us thru Smith that we must pay for future accidents is beyond belief.

Thanks for the complement.. I think.. Unfortunately for the Nats... yes.. the quality of leadership at electorate and branch level is diabolical.. especially around the eastern bays/Tamaki electorates.. some nice people... even well intentioned but politically very wimpy and totally controlled by the party.... yes sir no sir a thousand bags full sir.. only really interested in organising cocktail parties and generally wimpy public meetings between elections..... thats why we get an idiot like Smith being preselected.... and ending up as a minister.. the people on the ground are political robots. Plus they take things very personally which shows total political weakness.

Boil in your own piss? dread the thought..

Peter

[NONONO]

Thanks for the complement.. I think.(Drummer)

Was a compliment, however grudging.
You did a decent job, was probably the most defining moment so far. We got to see Nick-louse as he is, a deceiving, self serving liar, amongst other self serving self deceiving liars.
For me, it was more important than Welly.
I could almost smell the insurance premiums on his breath....

[drummer]

Thanks for the complement.. I think.(Drummer)

Was a compliment, however grudging.
You did a decent job, was probably the most defining moment so far. We got to see Nick-louse as he is, a deceiving, self serving liar, amongst other self serving self deceiving liars.
For me, it was more important than Welly.
I could almost smell the insurance premiums on his breath....

Thanks!

Just came across this website http://www.nationalmps.co.nz/NationalCaucus/NationalMPs/HonDrNickSmith/tabid/97/Default.aspx Also other MP's as well..

Could be useful

Peter

[drummer]

Young Nats... important that they hear us... seems like the chief tit is

M Oldershaw, 276a Fergusson Dr, Heretaunga, Upper Hutt Maybe a phone call anyone? An arranged meeting... legal of course..

Peter

[Pixie]

Young Nats... important that they hear us... seems like the chief tit is

M Oldershaw, 276a Fergusson Dr, Heretaunga, Upper Hutt Maybe a phone call anyone? An arranged meeting... legal of course..

Peter

Good idea.Attack the bright young things.Probably still think their party stands for personal freedom.

[Subike]

Our idea is to show dicky up as having told porkies right?
Now it has been a month? 30 days? since this whole thing started.
We have seen thousands of bikers fronting up and getting involved.
So far there has been how many arrests ??? 0
there have been how many injury accidents on the rides?? 1 that I know of.
How many complaints to the police for bad behaviour?
Is it possibile for some one to put togeather the data of...
how many rides there have been,
how many bikes have been on these rides,
how many miles have been traveled from the gathering points to the protest point.
Then ask the traffic enforcement for their stats re motor cycle incidents for the last month and compared this to the same month last year, if thats possibile. Include traffic offences if possibile
What we then could have are documented statistics ( media coverage)
Our own data base of facts on biker behaviour.
I think there will be shown a huge difference between the two time periods
Would it not be a huge tool, if the accident rates for the month was down? Injurys at an all time low, and the so called "1 in 19" accident rate not visiable at all.
Where is this going to put the claimed figures by the acc and dicky smutt?
As I posted in another thread, the rate of incident claimed by the acc, that one in 19 registered bikes have a claim each year equates to 13.8 injury incidents PER DAY.
So in the past month that we have been protesting it means that there should have been 414 injury claims by road riding bikers during this time.
so we have X amount of bikes traveling Y amount of miles causing
Z anmount of injurys in 30 days.
I think it would be a worth while exersize for someone to a report on this for us, some one who knows where to get the stats, put them togeather with figures from our combined protest rides for the past 30 days, and see how they compare with what the acc stats state, should have happened in that same time zone from their own figures.

[MSTRS]

Somebody worked out that Bikeoi 1 totalled about 1.75 million kilometres.

[flyingcrocodile46]

1,750,000 km's divided by say 10,000km per year (very high estimate of the average km's traveled by a motorcycle in a year) = 87.5.

That is one accident claim per 87.5 motorcycles per year.

Take it a step further. If the average claim cost is $20,000 and you divide it by 87.5 motorcycles each motorcyclist would have to pay $228 per year to cover the cost.

The problem is that they want an extra $270-ish to cover future costs related to that claim (87.5 X $270 = $23,685).

It actually stacks up pretty well with their figures. :Oops: There might not be any mileage in the mileage argument for us unless we can demonstrate that the average claim cost is well under their claimed $20,000-ish or that the average registered motorcycle does way less than 10,000km per year (that may well be so)??

[Hanne]

I am for this very purpose . That's two . AA don't care if we resign , we're maybe 2% of their membership. But if only1% of their membership vote at AGM, 2% could take over the organisationb

The lady i spoke to told me they don't even HAVE an AGM. That can't be true though, can it?

[Ixion]

AGM is required by law.

[MSTRS]

It actually stacks up pretty well with their figures.

We don't give a fuck whether it does. Or not.
We've made it clear.
Parity with cars.
We don't have it now, but we are not prepared for the gap to be widened.

[Wonko]

One thing that I took from the meeting was that there is currently no clear way that ACC gets to associate accidents caused by a car vs motorbike or other reason for the accident. In short if your in an accident it is classed as a Motorbike accident.

From now on if/when you need to claim ACC for a motorbike related injury make sure that the form is fulled out as "motor vehicle".

The result is that there will be less claims against the motor bike section of the ACC's vehicle fund, resulting in a lower $$ of payouts. Less dollars payed out means less dollars required to fund.

If all claims were considered motor vehicle claims there would be no distinction for motor bikes. ergo no need for higher costs for motorbikes.

This does not get around the real problem of vast increases to the ACC premiums.

[flyingcrocodile46]

We don't give a fuck whether it does. Or not.
We've made it clear.
Parity with cars.
We don't have it now, but we are not prepared for the gap to be widened.

Well Gosh! Don't shoot the messenger, ya grumpy fuck

[drummer]

One thing that I took from the meeting was that there is currently no clear way that ACC gets to associate accidents caused by a car vs motorbike or other reason for the accident. In short if your in an accident it is classed as a Motorbike accident.

From now on if/when you need to claim ACC for a motorbike related injury make sure that the form is fulled out as "motor vehicle".much merit in this... dam good advice

Peter

[drummer]

We don't give a fuck whether it does. Or not.
We've made it clear.
Parity with cars.
We don't have it now, but we are not prepared for the gap to be widened.
we don't have it now... but we want it or even lower... lets get real./... any difference is unfair... Remember the question about Maori having a higher accident rate at the meeting?.. would he tax them higher.. of course not... nor would we want it.... its as stupid as the higher levy on bikes

Peter

[drummer]

Bowls is a biggie...do you have any idea how many people die playing that sport every year?? :wacko:

Funny story.. i tried social bowls for a while... cheap drinks and some fun... it wasn't bad... then i got serious along with another couple of guys.. I went to a coaching day and we had a lecture on safety and injuries... it was hilarious... this youngish (for bowls) guy who is a paramed lectured for an hour... all things were covered.. evidently the message we were meant to take away from it was that Bowls is a very dangerous sport.. and that we should all actually wear helmets and full leathers... and never walk too fast...

Thats when I quit!

A bit of a drink and social bowls on Friday night is still a bit of fun though.

As far as the ACC protest goes... anyone interested in a co-ordinated approach to protesting and speaking with branch and electorate chairmen and women.. put the pressure on the weakest link so to speak?

Peter

[NONONO]

Funny story.. i tried social bowls for a while... cheap drinks and some fun... it wasn't bad... then i got serious along with another couple of guys.. I went to a coaching day and we had a lecture on safety and injuries... it was hilarious... this youngish (for bowls) guy who is a paramed lectured for an hour... all things were covered.. evidently the message we were meant to take away from it was that Bowls is a very dangerous sport.. and that we should all actually wear helmets and full leathers... and never walk too fast...

Thats when I quit!

A bit of a drink and social bowls on Friday night is still a bit of fun though.

As far as the ACC protest goes... anyone interested in a co-ordinated approach to protesting and speaking with branch and electorate chairmen and women.. put the pressure on the weakest link so to speak?

Peter

Two questions .
Will they listen?
Will someone strap me down so I can't chew their throats out?
Just that Nats smell of cardboard brief cases and overpowering perfume brings out the "Twilight" in me.

[drummer]

Two questions .
Will they listen?
Will someone strap me down so I can't chew their throats out?
Just that Nats smell of cardboard brief cases and overpowering perfume brings out the "Twilight" in me.Well I think that we should more force them to listen with continued pressure.. and if you want anything to break, you pressure the weakest link... they are the old party hacks who are in safe elctorates who have never really had pressure applied... its like the MC at the meeting.. a bit of pressure on him has I believe broken him politically.. I don't wish for him or any person to be broken personally.. but I do honestly believe breaking the Nats resolve about this starts with the branches...

I say chew them out absolutely... get a list of branch chairman and woman in your area and go get them politically... they WILL break... then the electorate chairman... for example the Tamaki electorate chairman has a political weakness of being totally complacent about his position and the political colour of the area.. I know, I was in his branch! . He saw what we did at the meeting and for the first time I have known over a few years was quiet.. I guessed overwhelmed.. again politically... because underneath, these people are the same as us all.. passionate about a cause but in their case often not politically strong enough to resist true concentrated opposition.

By the way.. there is someone here passing this info onto the Nats at Tamaki.. personally I hope they hear it... its a warning that they are to be opposed... perhaps for the first time.. I want them running scared of their positions and power.. it transforms into a fear that will drive change.

I just ask one question of that KB spy... copy and paste the whole post you send to National branch chairman... not just parts which damage the recipient personally, thats below the belt. Plus... if its unethical that person wants... well now...

Hope this kinda answers your questions!

Peter

[MSTRS]

By the way.. there is someone here passing this info onto the Nats at Tamaki.. personally I hope they hear it... its a warning that they are to be opposed... perhaps for the first time..

I just ask one question of that KB member... copy and paste the whole post... not just parts which damage the recipient personally, thats below the belt.

Peter

So, a gutless 5th columnist eh? One who would use part of the info to create a certain impression? Sounds VERY familiar.
Only way to counter that is to get in first. With ALL the info. In context.

[Ixion]

..
I say chew them out absolutely... get a list of branch chairman and woman in your area and go get them politically... they WILL break... then the electorate chairman... for example the Tamaki electorate chairman has a political wekness of being totally complacent.. he saw what we did at the meeting and for the first time I have known over a few years was quiet...

Well and good, but how?

The Nick Smith meeting was unusual in being open to the public. Party meetings are usually for party members only IIUC.

And the NS meeting was also an easier target because it was specifically about ACC. To completely hijack a meeting one requires an overwhelming majority present. We didn't have that at the NS meeting, and we certainly didn't have it at the only other electorate meeting we tried for , at Pukekohe, where six bikes turned up and looked silly, outnumbered about 6 to 1.

[caseye]

Something I've said before, we seem to have lost a large niumber of willing able bodied riders from our ranks.
Where are they?
Why are they not turning up, asking when and where etc.
Are we doing enough to spread the word? should we perhaps literally advertise, newspapers, radio, TV if we can that we want all concerned motorcyclists to meet somewhere, ie: the Domain, to talk about whats Next and get some hard numbers and volunteers who Will ride everywhere!

[drummer]

Well and good, but how?

The Nick Smith meeting was unusual in being open to the public. Party meetings are usually for party members only IIUC.
.

Yes they are... inside the building... but outside is public space... also... many if not most meetings feature drinkies and I know for sure people leave over the limit.. now especially with Christmas parties being held... the drinks are flowing and the drivers not all sober... ACC pays HUGE amounts for drunk driver accidents... what a ay to press our point of fairness.. simply follow or observe drivers as they come from the meetings... chat to them... and watch them drive off... simple call... bang!

Even if they aren't.. if they know we are watching the drunk driver situation I know their parties won't be exactly well remembered..

Simply also contacting the chairman and asking for comments then quoting them in all forums and media we can get ould have a devistating effect.. and if you think they ont talk... they all do... even if they don't there are the little people... the exec members of the branches... quote quote quote!! Break them from that weakest link

Peter

[drummer]

Something I've said before, we seem to have lost a large niumber of willing able bodied riders from our ranks.
Where are they?
Why are they not turning up, asking when and where etc.
Are we doing enough to spread the word? should we perhaps literally advertise, newspapers, radio, TV if we can that we want all concerned motorcyclists to meet somewhere, ie: the Domain, to talk about whats Next and get some hard numbers and volunteers who Will ride everywhere!
I believe there are those (here mostly) who are passionate about bikes and those who just ride.. then there are those who don't care... it is said for every protester there are up to 1000 who would like to... there is some truth in that..

Never forget the movie "The Power of One" and what ONE man did in Germany and to the world in the 30's and 40's.. what ONE man did for the world when he made an electric light bulb... I firmly believe that its not always outright numbers that count, its WHAT those people do... outnumbered 6 to 1... sad but not impossible... in fact sometimes a small number at a meeting can absolutely turn the subject around.. I did it as the only non ACT person at an ACT meeting with Douglas... completely ruined the meeting and made Roger dodger look like a first class twat!

Peter

[flyingcrocodile46]

Something I've said before, we seem to have lost a large niumber of willing able bodied riders from our ranks.
Where are they?
Why are they not turning up, asking when and where etc.
Are we doing enough to spread the word? should we perhaps literally advertise, newspapers, radio, TV if we can that we want all concerned motorcyclists to meet somewhere, ie: the Domain, to talk about whats Next and get some hard numbers and volunteers who Will ride everywhere!


Perhaps they have tired of talking around in circles or been subjected to a baseless accusations of being "fifth columnists" by addled cheerleaders <_<

[drummer]

subjected to a baseless accusations of being "fifth columnists" by addled cheerleaders <_<Not so baseless... there is at least one who is passing on info

Peter

[flyingcrocodile46]

Not so baseless... there is at least one who is passing on info

Peter

Says who? Someone who has a line of communication with the other side? Oh yeah! they are real credible. Pfffffffft

[short-circuit]

Says who? Someone who has a line of communication with the other side? Oh yeah! they are real credible. Pfffffffft

Yes. There are some real slimey bastards about that's for sure

[drummer]

Says who? Someone who has a line of communication with the other side? Oh yeah! they are real credible. PfffffffftIts not having contacts its what they pass on... anyway this is becoming silly... personally i think the thread has done it's dash... was a biggie thats for sure... congrats to all involved..

Peter

[short-circuit]

congrats to all involved..

Peter

Cheers luv.