Nah - I'm still pissed off

[Paul in NZ]

Its a bit like doing witout dessert - I'm still not feeling 'right' about this..

I dunno. I suppose in the great scheme of things I have to say I lead a pretty privileged life. Despite what the detractors say, NZ is still a wonderful country and certainly, I for one am not tempted by Aussie or other places. I earn decent money, live in a nice house, have a wife that is kind (and deserves better than I)… I have two – no 3 nice classic bikes, a couple of old kayaks and two reliable old Toyota station wagons… If push comes to shove and the National party won’t be swayed, I’ll find a way to keep enjoying life, bikes, my girl, the garden, the family etc etc…. In fact – life is so good I almost feel a bit guilty about protesting.

What pisses me off is not the money so much but the possibility that my government is plain lying to me and without regard to the consequences, driving another nail into the Kiwi lifestyle and community.

Let me explain, badly as it happens because I don’t think I’ve really thought this all the way through – yet.

At first glance, asking me to pay my own way seems a reasonable enough request. However, communities don’t always work that way and lets face it, this country is still so small that it can be considered a single community. If I drive to work I cannot be expected to provide my own road could I? If I did, I couldn’t afford extra for a road to drive on during my holidays so as a community we say, ‘well, lets all put in a bit and you can use my bit and I’ll use yours.” As a type 1 diabetic I’m a reasonably heavy user of health services, its an auto immune disease and no way could I afford to train my own doctors and research and make my own medicines so as a community we have a health system (such as it is). We all pay our taxes and we all withdraw services according to our needs and we try to provide the essentials. We can take private insurance to cover the extras and really, I’m in two minds about that (although thankfully I can just still afford some cover) There is a tacit covenant of community where we all contribute according to our means and withdraw according to our needs with a clear understanding that both our needs and means will vary over a lifetime. I’m here to help you and you help me when I need it. It’s the core strength and reason for community and nationhood.

Who is the most highly regarded kiwi of the modern era? Sir Ed Hillary?? Imagine if mountaineers had to pay according to their risk for treatment or rescue? No more heroes? Sure he was pre acc era but the concepts the same, if someone is in trouble, the community provides assistance.

Unfortunately, the one thing we should be concerned about more than anything is the increase in random violence and general poor behaviour. The attitude is very much ‘fuck you – whats your problem?”. I’m horny so its OK to rape someone, I need cash for drugs so its OK to commit crime. For one reason or another there is a breakdown of our community occurring, the essential Kiwi psyche is under threat as is our very way of life. If we follow this through, why should I pay for the mentally or physically impaired? Indeed I’m going to be so busy making my own insulin etc that I’m not going to have any time to go to work or pay taxes anyway so you can all get stuffed.

Here now we have a case where one group is demonised and expected to pay their way… Fair enough! I’m prepared to do that but I’m sorry, I don’t water ski, rock climb, etc etc down to cycling so I’m not paying for that, oh, next prick that gets lost in the bush? Sorry mate, not my problem, surf rescue – nah sorry, you didn’t purchase cost related cover before coming to the beach so can’t help.

Is this the society I want to live in?

No – its NOT!!

What I want is the dumb pricks to stop wasting my bloody contribution on stupid admin designed to generate ‘nice’ jobs. What I want is not to have to take a day off work to stand and listen to the pricks too or protest to get a fair go. I want to know that if me or my kids screw up kayaking, tramping, driving, get bitten by a dog or god forbid fall off a motorbike, that some fucking suit is not going to turn up with a clipboard and ask me if I have appropriate cover for this rescue?

This is NOT the kiwi way – it is an aberration and an attack on the country my father fought for and others have strived and died for. We had a deal with ACC – a covenant of trust – mess with it at your peril mr smith…

[Paul in NZ]

Oh - btw - well done the organisers. VERY well done.

Stoney - I vote you be renamed Sir Stoney KB for services to biking!

[R6_kid]

Ka pai bro. Been thinking the same lately - funnily enough the Sir Ed comparison was what came to mind for me as well.

[Mom]

I'm still not feeling 'right' about this..

I want to know that if me or my kids screw up kayaking, tramping, driving, get bitten by a dog or god forbid fall off a motorbike, that some fucking suit is not going to turn up with a clipboard and ask me if I have appropriate cover for this rescue?

This is NOT the kiwi way – it is an aberration and an attack on the country my father fought for and others have strived and died for. We had a deal with ACC – a covenant of trust – mess with it at your peril mr smith…

Apologies for the shortened quote, but...

Amen Brother!

[DidJit]

Awesome post, mate! We need to keep reminding ourselves of this. Well done! :niceone:

[BikerDazz]

Exactly man, exactly!

[phill-k]

Well said - the principles behind ACC are exactly as you have voiced, no fault and the cost shared between us all.

I for one as a protest will be lodging a complaint with the Human Rights Commission, stating I am being discriminated against under the founding principles of ACC.

cheers
phill

[White trash]

Unfortunately, the one thing we should be concerned about more than anything is the increase in random violence and general poor behaviour. The attitude is very much ‘fuck you – whats your problem?”. I’m horny so its OK to rape someone, I need cash for drugs so its OK to commit crime. For one reason or another there is a breakdown of our community occurring, the essential Kiwi psyche is under threat as is our very way of life.

Funny this statement should find its way into the ACC debate as I've been feeling this way for the past couple of years. Quite frankly, and this is a no doubt unpopular view on these forums, I don't give a fuck about the proposed levy hikes. I should care more, but I dont.

However, the fact that New Zealand scociety seems to be falling to pieces literaly in front of us, makes me want to make a difference. How that difference is best made is still a mystery but I suspect it begins with each of us striving to be a better person. And that's not to say you're doing it, it's actually doing it.

Sorry Paul, went a bit off topic there. The rest of your post makes very good sense too.

[monkeymcbean]

I think a GOOD government looks after its people, I don't like this smoke and mirrors bullshit, and I HATE being treated like im dumb.

[pete376403]

great post Paul. Send it to the Dompost as an OpEd piece. Might need to tone down some of the language, p'raps.

[Paul in NZ]

I think a GOOD government looks after its people, I don't like this smoke and mirrors bullshit, and I HATE being treated like im dumb.

A good government builds a strong inclusive community. It does NOT pitch one group of tax payers against another!

We need a dream - this aint it... selling our stuff aint either....

[GOONR]

great post Paul. Send it to the Dompost as an OpEd piece. Might need to tone down some of the language, p'raps.

That's a good idea. It's just the kind of thing that might get people thinking.

[Trudes]

Ok, firstly I agree with your post Paul.
BUT just something for us all to remember, National as a political party generally sways to the Right of the political spectrum, this generally means free markets, individualisim, user pays etc. We voted them in, what did we expect? (I personally did not, I hate both National and Labour). I remember not long before the last election the amount of moaning on this site and in NZ in general about how Labour was fucking up the country and that we should all vote National, well, we got what we wanted.
Maybe this is why in the last decade or so we keep getting a bunch of Labour and Labour led Governments then after a few years we get sick of the nanny state comforts and vote National back in "to tidy the shit up" which they never manage to do in the one term we keep them in before we all go "it's not fair, why should I have to pay for blah blah" and then vote Labour back in to give us back all our benefits.

[Goblin]

A good government builds a strong inclusive community. It does NOT pitch one group of tax payers against another!

We need a dream - this aint it... selling our stuff aint either....But it's the National way...always was...and always will be.

[Naki Rat]

Very well put Paul (bling sent) and put briefly is why the US and many other countries' social fabric is coming unravelled.
A National problem though peoples?? I think the rot had started setting in well before these turkeys got their latest turn at the helm.

[short-circuit]

Ok, firstly I agree with your post Paul.
BUT just something for us all to remember, National as a political party generally sways to the Right of the political spectrum, this generally means free markets, individualisim, user pays etc. We voted them in, what did we expect? (I personally did not, I hate both National and Labour). I remember not long before the last election the amount of moaning on this site and in NZ in general about how Labour was fucking up the country and that we should all vote National, well, we got what we wanted.
Maybe this is why in the last decade or so we keep getting a bunch of Labour and Labour led Governments then after a few years we get sick of the nanny state comforts and vote National back in "to tidy the shit up" which they never manage to do in the one term we keep them in before we all go "it's not fair, why should I have to pay for blah blah" and then vote Labour back in to give us back all our benefits.

...........ah yes

[short-circuit]

But it's the National way...always was...and always will be.

..........yes

[short-circuit]

I think the rot had started setting in well before these turkeys got their latest turn at the helm.

..........go to the back of the class

[Naki Rat]

..........go to the back of the class

You're obviously not familiar with Ian Wishart's "Absolute Power" :rolleyes:

[short-circuit]

You're obviously not familiar with Ian Wishart's "Absolute Power" :rolleyes:

I'm familiar with Ian Wishart - familiar enough not waste a second of my life reading his propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wishart Freak

[StoneY]

Maybe this is why in the last decade or so we keep getting a bunch of Labour and Labour led Governments then after a few years we get sick of the nanny state comforts and vote National back in "to tidy the shit up" which they never manage to do in the one term we keep them in before we all go "it's not fair, why should I have to pay for blah blah" and then vote Labour back in to give us back all our benefits.

Now we really get to the underlying cause of our woes

Nanny state, or Litigate...the choice is yours, after all it IS a democracy

[riffer]

Now we really get to the underlying cause of our woes

Nanny state, or Litigate...the choice is yours, after all it IS a democracy


Sheesh. Not much of a choice is it?

[StoneY]

Sheesh. Not much of a choice is it?

As I said...domcracy

Only other options:
Communism, Socialism, or Th KB way

Vote for Les

:)

[Trudes]

One of the Reasons why I think MMP is not a bad thing, depending on the mix in Parliament the left or right can be softened some, conflicting views to the extreme have to be taken into account depending on what the mix of coalition partnership is and supply and confidence agreements made.
Maybe if the huge majority of NZers stopped voting like sheep we wouldn't have either of these two parties pushing their agendas "for us, the voters". If more voters took the time to find out a bit about what they were actually voting for I wonder how many would think twice and choose a smaller party who better reflects their views than what party their parents always voted or what their mate at work said would be good. Baaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Dodgyiti]

I'll tell you when the rot fully set in: Employment Contracts Act

Took the balls away from the unions, made workers greed outstrip their loyalty to their workmates and Kiwi's have been bending over and taking whatever the government wants to dish out ever since.

Another National gem.

[ckai]

One of the Reasons why I think MMP is not a bad thing, depending on the mix in Parliament the left or right can be softened some, conflicting views to the extreme have to be taken into account depending on what the mix of coalition partnership is and supply and confidence agreements made.
Maybe if the huge majority of NZers stopped voting like sheep we wouldn't have either of these two parties pushing their agendas "for us, the voters". If more voters took the time to find out a bit about what they were actually voting for I wonder how many would think twice and choose a smaller party who better reflects their views than what party their parents always voted or what their mate at work said would be good. Baaaaaaaaaaaaa

oooo....ooo....oooo.....niiiice :niceone:

I got rubished by someone elses parents for voting for a minor, when I did vote. I knew an old lady (she's kill me if she heard that) who would vote for Winston, not because she was old, not because she liked a lot of his policies, but because she knew he would shit stir in parliament and keep everyone in line. Pity it didn't really keep him in line.

When someone offers something to me that makes sense I'll vote for them. Until then, I don't complain about gov't antics because I have no right too.

But Paul...top marks mate. That is exactly the line that common NZer's want to hear and will warm to us even more.

On a side note about this. Environment Waikato pays for the tidying of Lake Taupo so all you people can enjoy it's freezing temperatures. A few people complain that they never see Lake Taupo and never intend to visit so why should they pay.

"Because," says EW, "if we charged just the users, they would have a bill for $1000's and never use it because it's want be worth it. But if we spread the cost over everyone, only a tiny amount is paid so more people can enjoy it."

This means everyone pays under $10 which is not much. I hate Taupo, but I'm sweet with paying because spreading it on the masses is the only way it is financially feasible.

EW also finishes by saying "since you're paying anyway, you might as well start enjoying it" ;) I've always like this.

[Ixion]

oooo....ooo....oooo.....niiiice :niceone:

I got rubished by someone elses parents for voting for a minor, when I did vote. I knew an old lady (she's kill me if she heard that) who would vote for Winston, not because she was old, not because she liked a lot of his policies, but because she knew he would shit stir in parliament and keep everyone in line. Pity it didn't really keep him in line.

When someone offers something to me that makes sense I'll vote for them. Until then, I don't complain about gov't antics because I have no right too.

But Paul...top marks mate. That is exactly the line that common NZer's want to hear and will warm to us even more.

On a side note about this. Environment Waikato pays for the tidying of Lake Taupo so all you people can enjoy it's freezing temperatures. A few people complain that they never see Lake Taupo and never intend to visit so why should they pay.

"Because," says EW, "if we charged just the users, they would have a bill for $1000's and never use it because it's want be worth it. But if we spread the cost over everyone, only a tiny amount is paid so more people can enjoy it."

This means everyone pays under $10 which is not much. I hate Taupo, but I'm sweet with paying because spreading it on the masses is the only way it is financially feasible.

EW also finishes by saying "since you're paying anyway, you might as well start enjoying it" ;) I've always like this.

That's a very good approach. I shall use that. Of someone bleats about "I'm subsiding you", reply "Well, if you think that, what you should do is get a motorbike too, and enjoy both the riding and the subsidy"

[Naki Rat]

I'm familiar with Ian Wishart - familiar enough not waste a second of my life reading his propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wishart Freak

Brief bio on him, albeit biased, but the proof is that Wishart has yet to be legally challenged on any of the content of his recent books (Eves Bite, Absolute Power, Air Con) and to me that indicates his sources aand claims are accurate and above reproach. While I definitely don't agree with all his views I respect him for being one of the very few investigative journalists that exist in New Zealand in these dumbed down times.
Witness all the dim and lazy media drones regurgitating the same bullshit that ACC & National have presented us with on the issue in question :stupid:

[short-circuit]

While I definitely don't agree with all his views I respect him for being one of the very few investigative journalists that exist in New Zealand in these dumbed down times.

More of a Nicky Hager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Hager) man myself.

I can't see what the word "respect" has to do with a "Christian" fascist like Ian Wishart

[vifferman]

Well said, Paul. :niceone:

[Naki Rat]

More of a Nicky Hager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Hager) man myself.

I can't see what the word "respect" has to do with a "Christian" fascist like Ian Wishart


4. deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment

It means I don't consider him to be talking unsubstantiated shit like many journalists do.

[Ender EnZed]

great post Paul. Send it to the Dompost as an OpEd piece. Might need to tone down some of the language, p'raps.

Definitely. It's very worthy and right now, just after the Bikeoi, is when they'll be most receptive.

[Clockwork]

Its a bit like doing witout dessert - I'm still not feeling 'right' about this..

:2thumbsup
I agree whole-heartedly Paul but....

it all smells like Socialism to me... you'd better watch that. It's not too popular around these parts;)

[SPman]

... If more voters took the time to find out a bit about what they were actually voting for, I wonder how many would think twice and choose a smaller party who better reflects their views than what party their parents always voted or what their mate at work said would be good.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was and never will be" - Thomas Jefferson in the 1770s.

He is also quoted as saying

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate power of the society but the people themselves. If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion! "

About the only information for their discretion they get these days is so massaged by a compliant media, it's no wonder they are ignorant - unless it's about which celebrity star shagged which other non person last week in a country far away of no import!

[short-circuit]

It means I don't consider him to be talking unsubstantiated shit like many journalists do.

The wikipedia bio I posted up certainly suggests otherwise: Freak Wishart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wishart)

That aside he is christian, right wing, anti gay, anti science, anti sexual health in schools, anti environment...with that kind of values system and worldview I think it would be fairly safe to assume he'd also be racist and anti women as well.

How would that be for journalistic bias?

[James Deuce]

About the only information for their discretion they get these days is so massaged by a compliant media, it's no wonder they are ignorant - unless it's about which celebrity star shagged which other non person last week in a country far away of no import!

The media is in fact so compliant that I was the only one at Parliament yesterday not stinking of vaseline.

I do stink of motorcycles, but meh, what ya gonna do?

I went for a walk at lunchtime today and the NZNO (Nurse's Organisation) was having a protest in Midland Park. There were 12 of them, a small dog and a poor, blind old man who'd got himself snagged on the shoulder bag/accessory clothing item that a butch planetoid holding one of the banners was carrying.

There were 3 television stations there with cameras, 3 radio stations, a couple of newspapers and sundry others. The media outnumbered the protesters.

Which should give you an idea of how much the media "care" about political protest carried out by thousands of motorcyclists. Not. Very. Much.

More pressure needed, a better communications plan, and some carefully considered "leaks" when planning to carry out acts of Civil Disobedience.

[FastBikeGear]

Great post Paul.

Please send it as a letter to the editor to a couple of papers. I think you have hit a common and rich vein of thinking about our community.

[Naki Rat]

The wikipedia bio I posted up certainly suggests otherwise: Freak Wishart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wishart)

That aside he is christian, right wing, anti gay, anti science, anti sexual health in schools, anti environment...with that kind of values system and worldview I think it would be fairly safe to assume he'd also be racist and anti women as well.

How would that be for journalistic bias?

If you had read Eve's Bite, and AirCon (with an open mind) you would realise how far off the mark those accusations are.

The socialist indoctrination is strong in you grasshopper :Pokey:

[short-circuit]

The socialist indoctrination is strong in you grasshopper :Pokey:

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Same musta been true of Justice Woodhouse eh?

[2nd2last1]

well done man.. Excellent post!:msn-wink:

[Cheshire Cat]

Nah, I'm still pissed off
…

Me too....

[Trudes]

Better than being pissed on.

[Paul in NZ]

This is what Michelle a'Court wrote...

ACC


First published in 'Your Weekend' 14.11.09

There is a black bird nesting on a clutch of eggs in the climbing rose by my front door. I take this as a huge compliment – I like to think it says I am good person who has made such a peaceful home, wild birds want to be my neighbours and raise their chicks here.

It’s an unsought reward for a winter of putting out bread and keeping the feeder filled with seed. And for my patience when the birds steal make-up sponges I leave out in the sun to dry. I’m hoping she took some of them – I like to think her little ones will be snuggled up in a nest made of things I had lying around and can afford to contribute to their comfort.

This may be hogwash. Black birds possibly lay eggs in old boots on the side of busy roads in industrial areas, and in the gardens of murderers and wife-beaters. All the same, I check on her from a safe distance and keep the cat at bay. It makes me happy that she’s happy.

Let me make what might appear to be a great leap. On our better days, as members of a community and a democracy, this is what we do for each other, and why. On a small scale, we bake muffins for friends in need. On a grand scale, we built a welfare state based on the notion that we would all be happier if none of us were homeless or sick or hungry.

When the Accident Compensation Scheme was implemented in 1974, it was built on principals of community responsibility for accidents and support of victims. ACC’s architect, Sir Owen Wilson, now 93, blasts proposed changes – double and triple levies for some, victims forced back to work sooner and on lower incomes – as “uncaring and predatory”. People who do our dangerous jobs, he says, shouldn’t pay higher levies. We all benefit equally from the work they do, and that’s the way we should pay - equally.

Somewhere in the last 35 years, we’ve lost some of that sense of a grand community. We’ve been encouraged to focus on the care of our own nest which is commendable but, simultaneously, we’ve adopted the view that if someone’s nest collapses, it was probably their fault. When bad things happen now, we ask, “What did you do wrong?”

Which doesn’t match up with our old “no-fault” attitude to accidents at the heart of the ACC scheme. If it keeps going this way, I fully expect the black bird in my garden to sue me if her eggs don’t hatch and there’ll be a carrion bird on my doorstep dressed as a lawyer.

[mashman]

Let me make what """might""" appear to be a great leap.

Nice find Paul...