What if the Government doesn't listen?

[mashman]

I kinda can't believe i'm about to write this... too many reasons to list...

what are ya gonna do if it all turns to custard? Who ya gonna call???
Queen Lizzy...

The only person in the world with the power to remove your government. We've had one go out and a board replaced, they're still there and could quite easily take the reigns if needed.

You guys write some beautiful and compelling letters, but you're missing someone off of your mailing list.

As far as the end game goes, if they sell ACC lock stock... apart from complete a civil war, how can you realistically expect that this will not go ahead, IF, the government believe that it's in the country's best interests. Seriously.

ugh!

I used to work for a media group in the UK and i still know people there. Particularly a very bright woman, and old school friend of mine, that became a journalist there just before i left. If i can find my friend (pretty sure i can) and see if she or anyone else is interested in a story about letters coming from a concerned New Zealand public, that are asking for the Queens help with the removal of their Government, because it is not acting in the peoples best interests.

You may already know someone somewhere who knows a royal journalist in London that you could run this by.

If any journalist is receptive to the idea and has any form of royal connections, send all of your letters to StoneY's place and we'll send him to meet the Queen to ask for your country back.

It's a pretty big fuckin story! A ginger man, who became a biker, who spawned a family, who decided for his 40th birthday he wanted his liberty back and so defied a government, who met the Queen and asked for his country back, and GOT IT!!! it's a movie at least! and a very peaceful revolution!

[Conquiztador]

I kinda can't believe i'm about to write this... too many reasons to list...

what are ya gonna do if it all turns to custard? Who ya gonna call???
Queen Lizzy...

The only person in the world with the power to remove your government. We've had one go out and a board replaced, they're still there and could quite easily take the reigns if needed.

You guys write some beautiful and compelling letters, but you're missing someone off of your mailing list.

As far as the end game goes, if they sell ACC lock stock... apart from complete a civil war, how can you realistically expect that this will not go ahead, IF, the government believe that it's in the country's best interests. Seriously.

ugh!

I used to work for a media group in the UK and i still know people there. Particularly a very bright woman, and old school friend of mine, that became a journalist there just before i left. If i can find my friend (pretty sure i can) and see if she or anyone else is interested in a story about letters coming from a concerned New Zealand public, that are asking for the Queens help with the removal of their Government, because it is not acting in the peoples best interests.

You may already know someone somewhere who knows a royal journalist in London that you could run this by.

If any journalist is receptive to the idea and has any form of royal connections, send all of your letters to StoneY's place and we'll send him to meet the Queen to ask for your country back.

It's a pretty big fuckin story! A ginger man, who became a biker, who spawned a family, who decided for his 40th birthday he wanted his liberty back and so defied a government, who met the Queen and asked for his country back, and GOT IT!!! it's a movie at least! and a very peaceful revolution!

Fuck man! What an idea... It is so far out that you get some serious bling for that!

[Flip]

Its easy. Vote them into the back bench at the next election.

[Papa Bear]

it couldnt work ! ................................... could it ? :scratch:

[Stan]

I don't want to rain on your parade or anything but Nick Smith won't listen and he'll do just what he planned to from the start when he changed the ACC board.

He'll back off the levy increase a bit so he can say he's shown us some love but that's it.

Democracy is a wonderful thing, but it helps to have a long memory come election time.

[tommygun]

Voting them out? I will try but it's a long time coming and a sale of ACC could be done and dusted by then. End result new GOV buys it back..Kiwirail anyone.

[Headbanger]

I'd probably vote National again, Labour are just as big a pack of cunts and the rest can get fucked.

[Skyryder]

it couldnt work ! ................................... could it ? :scratch:

Yes it could. National are not as entrenched as many think.

This is part of the speech that Anderton delivered to the Labour Party Conferance.

Bear in mind that this is a man who knows what he is talking about when it comes to winning elections.




Without organization and membership, you won’t raise the money that it will take to change the government.

When I produced a booklet recommending democratic institutional change in the 1960’s, head office banned and recalled it for a book burning – it’s true!

But I’ve learnt since then a thing or two about electorate organisation. Your National opponents have 9 seats with a majority of less than 2000 votes where a two-party swing of less than 3% to Labour would win all of them.

If you include Wigram on your side you only need one more seat to hold more electorate seats than National. What I am saying to you is that you can win the next election.

To win the party vote you need a two party swing of 5.84% which would give you an additional 277,573 party votes. This is a hard call but averaged out per electorate it means 3965 extra party votes in each.

Can you do it? Yes you can!

If you think you are in a tough situation try coming back from a coup against your leader in the middle of an election campaign!

We had an election system in Wigram that could tell us household by household how well we were doing.

My campaign organiser said to me before the election in 1990 as the NewLabour candidate for Sydenham that we would win by 4012 votes. No such victory had ever been achieved in the whole of New Zealand’s political history.

We won by 4009. Jeanette Lawrence was that organiser – and still is.

And in the first week after the election we were working on getting back the three votes we had failed to get. And nothing has changed in the organisation of my electorate over 25 years.

Winning elections comes from defining the positive difference we want to make for ordinary New Zealanders.

It comes from listening to New Zealanders, in regions and towns and from winning the trust and confidence of people we seek to represent. Winning comes from powerful, detailed organisation, at the level of every town and suburb, every street, every letterbox, every doorstep, every telephone, every mobile phone. It comes from Internet connections, and personal connections, and relentlessly returning to them again and again.

Skyryder

[Kiwi Graham]

I kinda can't believe i'm about to write this... too many reasons to list...

what are ya gonna do if it all turns to custard? Who ya gonna call???
Queen Lizzy...

The only person in the world with the power to remove your government. We've had one go out and a board replaced, they're still there and could quite easily take the reigns if needed.

You guys write some beautiful and compelling letters, but you're missing someone off of your mailing list.

As far as the end game goes, if they sell ACC lock stock... apart from complete a civil war, how can you realistically expect that this will not go ahead, IF, the government believe that it's in the country's best interests. Seriously.

ugh!

I used to work for a media group in the UK and i still know people there. Particularly a very bright woman, and old school friend of mine, that became a journalist there just before i left. If i can find my friend (pretty sure i can) and see if she or anyone else is interested in a story about letters coming from a concerned New Zealand public, that are asking for the Queens help with the removal of their Government, because it is not acting in the peoples best interests.

You may already know someone somewhere who knows a royal journalist in London that you could run this by.

If any journalist is receptive to the idea and has any form of royal connections, send all of your letters to StoneY's place and we'll send him to meet the Queen to ask for your country back.

It's a pretty big fuckin story! A ginger man, who became a biker, who spawned a family, who decided for his 40th birthday he wanted his liberty back and so defied a government, who met the Queen and asked for his country back, and GOT IT!!! it's a movie at least! and a very peaceful revolution!

Maaaaate...............Pull what ever strings you think you can pull that will promote the cause.

I'm pretty impressed you can get royalty involved :eek5:

[riffer]

You know, I did wonder on Tuesday when there were so many of us lined up in front of Parliament chanting "bullshit, bullshit..." exactly what they could have done if we decided to start walking slowly forward towards the building and up the steps...

[Ixion]

To win the party vote you need a two party swing of 5.84% which would give you an additional 277,573 party votes. This is a hard call but averaged out per electorate it means 3965 extra party votes in each


Motorcyclists hold or significantly influence 250000 votes. They just got to find another 27573.

[Pedrostt500]

You know, I did wonder on Tuesday when there were so many of us lined up in front of Parliament chanting "bullshit, bullshit..." exactly what they could have done if we decided to start walking slowly forward towards the building and up the steps...

We would have lost any chance and kicked a serious own goal.

[mashman]

Motorcyclists hold or significantly influence 250000 votes. They just got to find another 27573.

You won't need to will you? You will have already removed most of the voters for National and Labour as we'll all be voting for the BIKEOI party... who knows a few businesses may follow... i'm no statistician, but half of our vote, for arguments sake, went to either National or Labour. A 125000 vote swing off of both parties is a big chunk?

Who wants to be an MP!

[tommygun]

We would have lost any chance and kicked a serious own goal.

And someone might have got shot by the gun carrying protection squad that were up there with him. Massive own Goal. :Oops:

[Wynmead]

You won't need to will you? You will have already removed most of the voters for National and Labour as we'll all be voting for the BIKEOI party... who knows a few businesses may follow... i'm no statistician, but half of our vote, for arguments sake, went to either National or Labour. A 125000 vote swing off of both parties is a big chunk?

Who wants to be an MP!
Nothing like an issue to polarise matters, but then what. I think we will need a bit more of a policy front than "don't increase our licence fees" to be a credible force chaps. Ideas?

[avgas]

and the POPE!
and Ronald McDonald!
and Bush!
and Jesus!
and Saddam!......ah mabey not him

Sorry man - not knocking you personally. But these days tall figures of society are as effective as water on a bee sting. Sometimes it feels better - but reality its only a 'feel good' thing.

We don't "knock down walls" anymore with words.

[ready4whatever]

We shouldnt need to wait for the next election to give them the boot. That walk for democracy looks good. They sent out that voting paper about smaking and didnt do a damn thing about it. Thats not democracy, where the people are meant to run the government.

I can see some suicidal guy that has just had enough take out the whole fuckin parliment. im pissed at this whole thing

[mashman]

and the POPE!
and Ronald McDonald!
and Bush!
and Jesus!
and Saddam!......ah mabey not him

Sorry man - not knocking you personally. But these days tall figures of society are as effective as water on a bee sting. Sometimes it feels better - but reality its only a 'feel good' thing.

We don't "knock down walls" anymore with words.

I know, i thought the same myself whilst typing this, but was sittin next to the big guy smokin brandy dipped cigars :yes:

It all depends on how far we are allowed to go. I know i know... but we are within our rights to hold our government accountable, after all isn't treason a door that swings both ways?

[peasea]

I'd probably vote National again, Labour are just as big a pack of cunts and the rest can get fucked.

Don't mince your words! Tell us what you really think.

They are all corrupt.

[peasea]

and the POPE!
and Ronald McDonald!
and Bush!
and Jesus!
and Saddam!......ah mabey not him

Sorry man - not knocking you personally. But these days tall figures of society are as effective as water on a bee sting. Sometimes it feels better - but reality its only a 'feel good' thing.

We don't "knock down walls" anymore with words.

I agree, like in Berlin some sledgehammers are required sometimes.

If this ACC shite goes through I doubt any amount of 'dialogue' will do any good in reversing the increases. Remember Bastille Day? That got some results. I'm not suggesting (publicly) that we chop off heads but c'mon, pussy-footing about gets nobody anywhere.

Let's not forget, we're in New Zealand and bashing people, ripping off houses, shooting up the flag, raping and pillaging all result in next to no consequences. We have nothing to lose by getting aggro; the courts will see us right, we're the downtrodden aren't we?

[Headbanger]

They are all corrupt.


So God bless my soul - I've got total control .And the crosshairs lined up dead in my sight

I'm voting with a bullet

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[mashman]

Maybe the fact that the politicians have shut the Queen up might inspire her to do something truley amazing during her final years. A defining moment. Then again she may well just use the letters to wipe her arse, who knows, but wouldn't you like to find out?

[Gareth51]

Motorcyclists hold or significantly influence 250000 votes. They just got to find another 27573.

Family,friends,workmates,employees etc.

[peasea]

Family,friends,workmates,employees etc.

Start breeding immediately.

[scissorhands]

We make them fricken listen

[Thaeos]

Just a thought. Why would anyone in NZ listen to what the Queen says? She may technically have some power over us but in practice?

"Oh hey John, it's Liz here, just wanted to tell you to dismantle your government, cheerio!'"

"Hm. Nah, Piss off."

:)

[mashman]

Just a thought. Why would anyone in NZ listen to what the Queen says? She may technically have some power over us but in practice?

"Oh hey John, it's Liz here, just wanted to tell you to dismantle your government, cheerio!'"

"Hm. Nah, Piss off."

:)

:laugh::laugh::laugh: that may well happen. Queen Victoria did it (apparantly), dissolved the government and forced an early general election. If you have lost confidence in your government, then you are saying that they are not fit to govern. How do you stop that short of civil disobedience or civil war.

It may jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but the incoming government would think twice about fucking the people over.

There are a myriad of outcomes, irrespective of what action you take. Is anyone willing to represent their country and try it?

[davereid]

It may jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but the incoming government would think twice about fucking the people over.

Governments know full well that while we may get upset about a particular law, that we will seldom vote solely on the single issue, as we consider a wide range of issues.

This is where the Nats are vulnerable, and Labour know it.

Last Election a massive number of people voted against Helen Clark, rather than for National.

Labour know, that all they have to do is change public opinion about Labour Nanny State-isim, and the things they voted against, and Labour get a foot in the door.

And a promise to sort out the debacle of ACC is a single issue that could swing another 100,000 + votes to Labour.

We may lose round one, in fact we almost certainly won't get parity with cars this time. But as long as we are in the paper, every week, same agenda, and Labour stay true to the Parity Promise, then the Nats will back down.

Remember what we have here, is a Tax paying group that make up just 0.03% of ACC revenues, but is large enough to change voting patterns at the next election.

National will be watching that.

[kevie]

I'd probably vote National again, Labour are just as big a pack of cunts and the rest can get fucked.

Yeh not too much option is there ....... We could combine our numbers and start the "PIB Party" (Politically Incorect Bikers) get a fair deal for all and get rid of the political correctness in the country and get NZ back to a country that is for the people and not so much for the big corporate and rich minority :) I can think of a very impressive ginger haired 40 year old prospective leader of the new party and future Prime Minister.

Someone said in another thread that you only needed about 500 payed up members of a 'party' to be eligible to run in an election???? something like that anyway .... going by the dis-satisfaction in the country and the sheer number of "bullshit shouting bikers" on Tuesday im sure we could get a hell of a lot more than that .... what about the option? worth a look??? After all .... how much support really does some of the minor parties have that have managed to get MPs into parliament? with a quarter of a million concerned and fired up bikers in NZ and a lot of public on our side Im sure we would get more than 1 MP in there and make the major (and minor) parties sit up and notice us.

But what does it take (how many signatures required etc) to run a petition on a vote of no confidence in our government and calling for a re-election? I think a major event like that would be what it would take to stop the sale and crap National is going to push through in a hurry before they get dumped in the next election, they can vurtually destroy the country we know and love before an election.

And a thought to add to the Bikers party..... would we attract a certain few MPs that are in the know, were in the BIKEOI and has the governmental experience to get this idea off the ground and working........ worth the thought I recon, I know I would join the 'membership' of a well oiled well tuned and well tensioned chain party.

[Skyryder]

I hate to put a damper on things but the Queen or more to the point her rep, the Gov General's prime function is to see that the Government and Parliment act in a constitutional manner. It has nothing to do with right and wrong other than lawful or unlawful in how legislation is made into law.


Skyryder

[Madmax]

And someone might have got shot by the gun carrying protection squad that were up there with him. Massive own Goal. :Oops:

6 rounds only go so far

[ManDownUnder]

She may technically have some power over us but in practice?

... ummmmmm..... no

The Governor General does (who is technically the Queen incarnate) but that's only over serious shit... not a $500/year increase in ACC payments.

Take a look at what the Queen did in respect of that bad man Mr Mugabe killing white famers, and booting them off their land etc... she said (and I believe this could be a quote) "You're naughty and (the Royal) we hereby threaten to suspend you from the Commonwealth so you won't be allowed to run long distance in the games

Nyah Nyah Nyah"

Or there was Bananarama taking power by physcial force. Did the Queen step in? ... I thnk she said some thing similar to him.

With respect- this is an important issue... to US. It's not something Queen is even going to read about, let alone wade into and create international political waves about. Anyone taking this option seriously needs to lay off the strong cough mixture

[ManDownUnder]

what are ya gonna do if it all turns to custard? Who ya gonna call???

You need to decide all on your lonesome (or start a KB poll if thinking's a challenge - seems to be the way here in KB) if this is a big enough issue to sway your vote to a different party... then you wait nicely until the next election comes along and let them have it!

Hope there's enough others that agree with you (and by all means get vocal in the meantime - it's nice to share your views which is what I believe is being done).

By all means write to the Queen about it. Just don't get too hopeful about the outcome of it

[mashman]

By all means write to the Queen about it. Just don't get too hopeful about the outcome of it

Heh, i take your point, but i am under no illusion as to the response we'd get is. Moreover though, i'm curious where the line will be drawn! Who would eventually give us the royal "Sod Off"! Anything better than that is a bonus...

If any major publication picks up a story "Queen says no to the requests of her subjects on the other side of the world", "are they out of sight out of mind", "who protects you from your government unsanctioned decision making"... they are our servants, we are not their employees!

There are plenty of ways to address the issue as we've seen, but at the end of the day when all else fails, you've got 1 out, just 1 and that's the Queen... if she says no what's the alternative? civil unrest? it's relatively muted here at the moment because the fight is only just starting, we're educating people that we come across (6 people so far today that have stood open mouthed as i explain why we did what we did on tuesday), yet the NZ public seems to keep their thoughts to themselves to a certain extent. But as i've come to realise during the 3 years that i've been here, the NZ public have a lot of passion and i wouldn't put anything past anyone when fighting for their rights...

blah blah...

[dipshit]

Fuck you lot talk some shit. :tugger:

[mashman]

Fuck you lot talk some shit. :tugger:

We'll keep talking it whilst the rest of you keep getting spoon fed it! :love:

[Drogen Omen]

best solution i can think of is starting our own party...

call it "KiwiBiker Party"....

why not it cant be that hard and we already know we have the votes behind us... so we just need someone with the know how and the focus to actualy cary this idea through.

come election time we well be in power and probs would get more seats that National and Labour put together and the Mairi party would have non... hahahahaha

so who's in...???

you'll get my family's vote +6 :done:

[Pixie]

Meeee! AAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[mashman]

best solution i can think of is starting our own party...

call it "KiwiBiker Party"....

why not it cant be that hard and we already know we have the votes behind us... so we just need someone with the know how and the focus to actualy cary this idea through.

come election time we well be in power and probs would get more seats that National and Labour put together and the Mairi party would have non... hahahahaha

so who's in...???

you'll get my family's vote +6 :done:

Some folk kinda discussed this in another thread... and funnily enough, no takers!!! Do you reckon National, knowing that they're about to be voted out will wait for another 2 years before they sell off ACC... I hope i'm wrong, but if i'm not, you have a very small window of opportunity to block any such Government move!!! then after the next election we can get to work. If there's noone else on here to contest the seat that i'm living in, i'll run for it! But being English might go against me due to my lack of understanding when it comes to the Kiwi experience!!!

[Ixion]

A biker party would not, per se, be electorally successful.

Few people vote on such a narrow basis.

However, it could serve a more subtle purpose.

Firstly, a registered politcal party is entitled to election time speaking rights.

Secondly, NZ lacks a recognised formal lobby group system. Formation of a biker party could enable the influence of such a party to be used to extract concessions form the major parties. "Agree to this, and we'll commit suicide and tell our members to vote for you. Otherwise, we're off to see the other guy"

[StoneY]

best solution i can think of is starting our own party...

call it "KiwiBiker Party"....

why not it cant be that hard and we already know we have the votes behind us... so we just need someone with the know how and the focus to actualy cary this idea through.

come election time we well be in power and probs would get more seats that National and Labour put together and the Mairi party would have non... hahahahaha

so who's in...???

you'll get my family's vote +6 :done:

Peter Lamb himself said that

I might be keen, see how things look next week.... ;)

[mashman]

A biker party would not, per se, be electorally successful.

Few people vote on such a narrow basis.

However, it could serve a more subtle purpose.

Firstly, a registered politcal party is entitled to election time speaking rights.

Secondly, NZ lacks a recognised formal lobby group system. Formation of a biker party could enable the influence of such a party to be used to extract concessions form the major parties. "Agree to this, and we'll commit suicide and tell our members to vote for you. Otherwise, we're off to see the other guy"

Understood. But us being there won't hurt... a kind of someone is watching you watching us kind of thing! An unofficial Little Brother

[st00ji]

there certainly appears to be a fair group of calm heads on this site, im sure i dont need to name names for everyone to know who im talking about.

i've never thought any of the current political groups represented me particularly well, so if those in question DID decide to form a party - even as a throwaway gesture as ixion mentioned - you can count on at least one paid up supporter.

(thats me in case its not clear :baby:)