Watering down the effect!

[The Joka]

I think everyone that has posted on this thread needs to take a long close look at what has happened this far and what has had the most effect...Positive & Negative.

I am gutted I couldnt be at the meeting tonight in Manukau as I would have voiced this clearly.

There is way way way too much action going on....

I had nothing but positive comments about the Wellington protest and people were genuinely interested in what was going on and why we were protesting.. providing good open ended questions where you could arm them with information! They talk to someone else and our story gets heard.

Believe me when I say I am all for creating havoc and disruption... but this vigilantly one off stuff is pretty crazy and it is pissing people off to say the least! Whangamata is one example, taking one park per bike in Mission Bay on a Sunday... they are protests but think about the message it sends and the impact it has for people! Some more thought into these ideas needs to take place... I would rather attend one protest a month that hits the right note (sends the right message) then 5 protests a month that have no point, rhyme or reason.

My thoughts:

Mission Bay Protest: The message I got was a group of pissed off people seeking attention... Now if this had been done on a Weekday in Auckland city it says if ACC charge me this increase, I will be bringing my car to work and will take this park.

Whangamata: The message I got from this: WTF???? Now if 10, 20,30 or 1000 bikes showed up with banners that pointed out what was happening or asking what ACC levies boats, jet skis and surfers are paying (not sure if they are).. and didnt show mass disrespect to people passionate about boating, fishing or the marina it would have had a much better response.

My suggestion: Stop and think about your action before doing them... think big picture stuff.

My suggestion for the next protest is a simple one...

On the next Fund Raising / Charity ride you go on wear a vest, fly a flag or have banners that state if ACC put up the levies on unjust figures that this charity is going to suffer! Then let your media outlets know about the charity ride... This shows bikers in a postive light and shows that if the Government do this that the wider community suffers not just the bikers. I know that I will be Flying my flag on the toy run.

ONE LAST POINT: This is not targeted at any individual I think that what you are trying to do is great, you just need to look at the big picture a little more.

[James Deuce]

Couldn't see through all the shouting what you were trying to say.

You're not getting any action or something. The ratio of chicks to blokes on KB is pretty poor so you won't be getting action from a shouty post.

[sinfull]

I think everyone that has posted on this thread needs to take a long close look at what has happened this far and what has had the most effect...Positive & Negative.


Who ? You and JD ?


Oh and me lol

[The Joka]

Okay after consulting a computer geek found out what shouting on a keyboard means... my mistake! :finger:


The point is clear... THINK

[StoneY]

Oh and me lol

And me...where are we again?:dodge:

[sinfull]

And me...where are we again?:dodge:
Nooooo Don't quote me Stoney ! Your an activist, they*re liable to be watching you !


*powers that be, who would see common folk controlled in a police state !

[Elysium]

What? Speak up!!

[The Joka]

hahahaha funny fuckers arent ya! Sorry I dont sit infront of the computer day after day.. talking to virtual friends in virtual language!

Just read the post and shove your shit head comments!:beer::whistle:

[swbarnett]

The Joka makes a very good point. I've been talking to the guys at work (non-bikers) and they're starting to get pissed off at what they see as attacks on non-bikers. We are in danger of forcing public opinion back to an "us and them" mentality.

[DidJit]

Did you explain to them that their wallets are going to be affected by this as well?

[The Joka]

"Did you explain to them that their wallets are going to be affected by this as well?"

It doesnt matter... they are losing interest through retarded action that is nothing more then mindless attention seeking.

Like the shopping mall idea... what message are you trying to send?

[The Stranger]

Mission Bay Protest: The message I got was a group of pissed off people seeking attention... Now if this had been done on a Weekday in Auckland city it says if ACC charge me this increase, I will be bringing my car to work and will take this park.


There was a protest at Mission Bay?
How did that work? there were no cars to piss off and all the cafes were full of paying customers thanks to us. The local business owners will welcome us back anytime after that "protest", we must have saved them thousands.

Boy we showed them.

[DidJit]

It doesnt matter... they are losing interest through retarded action that is nothing more then mindless attention seeking.


My suggestion for the next protest is a simple one...

On the next Fund Raising / Charity ride you go on wear a vest, fly a flag or have banners that state if ACC put up the levies on unjust figures that this charity is going to suffer! Then let your media outlets know about the charity ride... This shows bikers in a postive light and shows that if the Government do this that the wider community suffers not just the bikers. I know that I will be Flying my flag on the toy run.

So do you think that your suggestion is enough to change John Key's mind?
John Key doesn't give a shit about charity except for the personal tax breaks it gives him.

As has been mentioned a few times before by others more learned than I, the only thing that will stop these ACC changes is if National and John Key believe the political fallout from privatizing ACC is so great (read. they're out of a job) that the changes are not worth pursuing.

Yes, there will be people who get sick of hearing about ACC protests — there are already plenty of bikers who are sick of it! — but the only way we can keep the proposed destruction of ACC in the public eye is by maintaining media coverage of the proposed destruction of ACC. Because that's the only way you can educate the masses in this modern age.

This is a war, not a single battle. There are many battles to be fought and many skirmishes to engage in before the war is won. National, Nick Smith and John Key are counting on the fact that people are apathetic and have short memories. We need to prove them otherwise.

If there is a way that we, as a collective, can keep intense pressure on National, Nick Smith and John Key without protesting, without the media, that we haven't thought of yet, please feel free to add your suggestions to the mix.

I'm not knocking your suggestion thus far — wearing protest messages in a visible, passive manner that gets people asking questions and keeps the issue top-of-mind is good — but is it good enough?

[Ixion]

There was a protest at Mission Bay?
How did that work? there were no cars to piss off and all the cafes were full of paying customers thanks to us. The local business owners will welcome us back anytime after that "protest", we must have saved them thousands.

Boy we showed them.

Front page of the Harold.

That worked!

[The Stranger]

Front page of the Harold.

That worked!

The protest you have when you're not having a protest eh.

[Ixion]

Nothing wrong with that.

If you get the message across and everybodies' happy, then that sounds like a win all round.

[James Deuce]

As has been mentioned a few times before by others more learned than I, the only thing that will stop these ACC changes is if National and John Key believe the political fallout from privatizing ACC is so great (read. they're out of a job) that the changes are not worth pursuing.



The awkward thing about that concept is that John Key will never be out of a job. By his standards Prime Minister of NZ IS a charity job, given the enormous pay cut, reduction in bonuses and share options, and reduced working hours.

John Key being the PM of NZ is akin to me going to live near Motueka in a house truck, growing produce to sell at roadside stalls.

[DidJit]

The awkward thing about that concept is that John Key will never be out of a job. By his standards Prime Minister of NZ IS a charity job, given the enormous pay cut, reduction in bonuses and share options, and reduced working hours.

John Key being the PM of NZ is akin to me going to live near Motueka in a house truck, growing produce to sell at roadside stalls.

Ok, point conceded, and I'm sure many of the Nats (not just JK) are quite financially comfortable, so let me rephrase that...

The only thing that will stop these ACC changes is if National and John Key believe the political fallout from privatizing ACC is so great (read. they're not able to line their backers' back pockets fast enough because the government's been overturned) that the changes are not worth pursuing.

How's that?

[Ixion]

John Key may be a 'hobby' PM, but that doesn't mean that he is not committed to National winning the next election.

Maybe more so than if he depended on the job. A one term government would be a blow to his mana. If he doesn't need the job for the money, then he must be doing it for the prestige and power. He won't be happy to take a hit on both those.

And the grey men behind him will definately not want to envisage a defeat in 2011.

So, the strategy still stands.

Make the National hierarchy conclude that the potential electoral damage we can cause them is more than the measly few million we cost ACC (on a governmental scale 62 million is chump change).

[Maha]

The gathering at Mission Bay last Sunday was never tauted as a protest.
If you read the home page post, it explains what was going to/and did happen.
However, the Rolling Protest the weekend before was tauted as a protest (hence the word protest in the title) and it was exactly that.
There has been one or two failed attempts so far, but on the whole I personally feel that the rest have been, for the best part, very successful, and have accomplished what they set out to accomplish.

Any member who has a better idea on how things should pan out, nows the time to step up and show how great thou art.

Those that have the nouse to organise any protest in any form, do take on board the ideas from others, Dont always use the 'thrown in ideas' but they are talked about.

[The Stranger]

Nothing wrong with that.

If you get the message across and everybodies' happy, then that sounds like a win all round.

Yeah, sure, I agree. My post was in response to the OP, in which he referred to it as a protest.

[James Deuce]

I'm not suggesting that National want to lose the next election, but the person with the least to lose is the PM. I don't think his Mana will suffer much, especially considering the damage control speaking tour that will enamour him once more of the financial markets and governments with actual GDP.

[Ixion]

You are probably right IF an issue of significant philosophical importance were under consideration. Mr Key would be in a position to say "This is really important, I don't care how unpopular it makes me, if it makes national lose the next election, so what. I have to be faithful to my principles here, and if I'm voted out, well OK, I've had my term, and I'll move on"

But, ACC levies for motorcycles isn't in that class. It's an argument over a tiny sum of money, that is generating a shit load of pub press for National , and getting in the way of bigger things.

A savvy PM would want it closed down. And Mr Key is pretty savvy.

[mashman]

A savvy PM would want it closed down. And Mr Key is pretty savvy.

A savvy PM would realise that there is NOONE to oppose him because he is the ultimate power in the country, he doesn't have to listen or respond to ANYONE

[Ixion]

No. Not entirely

He must listen and respond to his causcus.

And if he is wise to his party heirarchy.

In some cases he may be compelled to bow to the courts.

And, ultimately , to the people , though admittedly only every three years.

Moreover, his command of Parliament is not absolute - he depends on support form other parties .

And, I guess , in the real extreme case, to the Governor-General, who can sack him. Come back Sir John Kerr, all is forgiven.

[StoneY]

Well, never mind the PM, hes a gutless wonder with a cute grin, we all know its really Bill who runs the show behind the scenes


I join up with the Labour party tomorrow, who knows, maybe in 10 years or so it's me youll all be bitchin about, coz I truly intend to get in boot's n all!
:)

Im just glad to see the Nats are on the back foot, polls showing loss of support, Maori party about to implode on itself for making unethical deals with the chief Mofo.......

Martinborough on Sunday for anyone within riding distance, check the event calendar for details and see you in the Square (I have heard several Labour MP types may come for coffee......)

Think im done for awhile, I have to get BRONZ Wgtn up and running, new house to move into, Stadium repair sorted, trying to arrange a post BIKEOI doco, leave you lot to keep the protest and publicity rides rolling along for me
;)

[mashman]

He must listen and respond to his causcus.


He doesn't have to! GLOBAL economy, we're not the only ones feeling the pinch.

Granted, Gov Gen - Queen etc... but i've seen where that one goes, after all a man has to know his limits!!!!

[duckonin]

He also has to listen to the public,to forsake that, is what gets Nat the boot in the end:msn-wink:

[klingon]

Couscous rarely talks to me. But when it does, I listen. :drinknsin

[James Deuce]

I'm more of a pan fried haloumi man myself.

[mashman]

He also has to listen to the public,to forsake that, is what gets Nat the boot in the end:msn-wink:

Why? Who says? They can do anything in 2/3 days, let alone 2/3 years.

[NONONO]

I think everyone that has posted on this thread needs to take a long close look at what has happened this far and what has had the most effect...Positive & Negative.

I am gutted I couldnt be at the meeting tonight in Manukau as I would have voiced this clearly.

There is way way way too much action going on....

I had nothing but positive comments about the Wellington protest and people were genuinely interested in what was going on and why we were protesting.. providing good open ended questions where you could arm them with information! They talk to someone else and our story gets heard.

Believe me when I say I am all for creating havoc and disruption... but this vigilantly one off stuff is pretty crazy and it is pissing people off to say the least! Whangamata is one example, taking one park per bike in Mission Bay on a Sunday... they are protests but think about the message it sends and the impact it has for people! Some more thought into these ideas needs to take place... I would rather attend one protest a month that hits the right note (sends the right message) then 5 protests a month that have no point, rhyme or reason.

My thoughts:

Mission Bay Protest: The message I got was a group of pissed off people seeking attention... Now if this had been done on a Weekday in Auckland city it says if ACC charge me this increase, I will be bringing my car to work and will take this park.

Whangamata: The message I got from this: WTF???? Now if 10, 20,30 or 1000 bikes showed up with banners that pointed out what was happening or asking what ACC levies boats, jet skis and surfers are paying (not sure if they are).. and didnt show mass disrespect to people passionate about boating, fishing or the marina it would have had a much better response.

My suggestion: Stop and think about your action before doing them... think big picture stuff.

My suggestion for the next protest is a simple one...

On the next Fund Raising / Charity ride you go on wear a vest, fly a flag or have banners that state if ACC put up the levies on unjust figures that this charity is going to suffer! Then let your media outlets know about the charity ride... This shows bikers in a postive light and shows that if the Government do this that the wider community suffers not just the bikers. I know that I will be Flying my flag on the toy run.

ONE LAST POINT: This is not targeted at any individual I think that what you are trying to do is great, you just need to look at the big picture a little more.

Or you could attend the OPEN meeting of the National Party, featuring Nick (trust me I'm a bastard) Smith, topic, climate change and ACC, on Monday evening.
That is, if your not too busy flying flags and writing your name on the back of hi vis jackets.

[The Joka]

Consider me there...

This is a good targeted and thought out protest that will hit the right note...

Will try and get a couple of lads with me :-)

In response to the rest of you... I REST MY CASE!