Why is the Maori Party supporting ACC bill?

[FastBikeGear]

I don't get it. Here is the speech Rahui gave on the first reading of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill. Am I right in thinking that without the Marori party support this bill will not go through or can they get it through with just ACTs support?

(ref source: http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/7/c/d/49HansD_20091027_00000825-Injury-Prevention-Rehabilitation-and-Compensation.htm)


RAHUI KATENE (Māori Party—Te Tai Tonga) : When Sir Owen Woodhouse presented the results of the 1967 royal commission report on workers’ compensation, he summed them up by concluding: “Injury arising from accident demands an attack on three fronts. The most important is obviously prevention. Next in importance is the obligation to rehabilitate the injured. Thirdly, there is the duty to compensate them for their losses.” They were simple goals arising out of an admirable commitment to principles such as community responsibility, comprehensive entitlement, complete rehabilitation, meaningful compensation, and administrative efficiency. The important challenge before Parliament now, some four decades and more later, is to assess whether these goals are still relevant, whether they have been achieved, and how successful the scheme has been in following them.

Seven years after the Woodhouse report, the Government of the day created the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC), introducing what would later be described as a revolutionary model for cost-effective rehabilitation and compensation. The essence of the exchange negotiated by the State was that, in return for giving up the right to sue, all New Zealanders had the right to a new, universal, 24-hour, no-fault coverage against injury, along with associated rehabilitation and compensation services. For the last 35 years New Zealanders have been contributing to injury accounts that variously cover employers, the self-employed, earners, non-earners, and motor vehicle and medical misadventure.

Part of the process of change introduced by the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill is the proposed increase to three of the levies: the work account levy, the earners levy, and the motor vehicle account levy. The justification is apparently an increase in the number of claims and rising health costs. Yet conflicting information seems to question why these levy changes need to occur. The recent ACC annual report suggests that claims have stabilised. In fact, there was a 7 percent decrease in the last financial year. The annual report also points out progress in the rehabilitation of workers. The goal was to have an 88.5 percent rehabilitation rate 9 months after injury. The achieved rate was 87.5 percent. One percentage point hardly seems worth making a fuss about. Why would we want to review a scheme that has been lauded as a world leader, on the basis of a one percent difference? What could be the rationale for a bill reforming accident compensation?

The Māori Party has raised one major issue before in this House and consistently throughout the term of the previous Government and the current Government, and it demands reform. That issue is the significant difference in the rate at which Māori and the general population claim for accident compensation services. This difference appears to be most marked for non-earners, the young, and the elderly, who are arguably the most vulnerable New Zealanders. The difference in rates is even more inexplicable, given that Māori are overrepresented in injury statistics across all ages and in all areas. In fact, injury is the leading cause of death for Māori aged 30 and under, and most of those deaths are preventable. The March 2008 report of Statistics New Zealand revealed that Māori have significantly higher injury rates by occupation, with 155 injuries per 1000 fulltime-equivalent workers, compared with 111 for Pākehā. It is higher particularly in occupations such as agriculture, fisheries, manufacturing, and trades. There are also significantly more injuries in lower-paid occupations, where Māori are overrepresented.

Meanwhile, ACC figures continue to show that Māori make fewer claims to accident compensation and are less likely to receive compensation entitlements. ACC has tried to do something about this by establishing formal channels such as the Māori advisory board, Te Roopu Manawa Mai, to exchange valuable ideas and information. It also introduced a Code of ACC Claimants’ Rights, which contains eight rights encouraging positive relationships between claimants and ACC as they work together for the claimant’s recovery. Although ACC undertook initiatives to improve access through information programmes and better engagement with Māori communities, these programmes have not demonstrated significant success in closing the delivery gap. Access for Māori has been consistently lower than for other groups. The data that is available demonstrates that Māori receive treatment at a lower level than non-Māori, and where services are accessed, they are accessed later, and claimants exit programmes earlier. A similar record applies in the area of injury prevention.

If any amendments are to be made to the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Act 2001 to reduce levies and Crown costs, one would think that the broader question of eligibility for accident compensation support would be high on the change agenda. The absence of data around the business significance of Māori claimants could be something the corporation addresses as a priority going into the future. For example, if we were to plan for a given level of improvement in access for Māori, such analysis might estimate what the impact might be on ACC’s bottom line. Before we even begin this exercise, we know intuitively that because Māori are a small population group and constitute a small group of claimants, it is unlikely that Māori will be considered a high-value market segment to provide a financial incentive for private insurers to develop Māori-responsive business strategies, such as the use of rongoā Māori or mirimiri treatments in the context of a rehabilitation regime.

The Minister for ACC, Nick Smith, promoted the context for the changes outlined in this bill as the need to return to a position where accident compensation is both affordable and fair. The goal of being affordable and fair sets up a spectrum ranging from institutional racism at one end to cultural competency at the other. Under the bill, Māori in high-risk occupations will pay higher levies. High-risk occupational areas have significant numbers of Māori workers, and the bill provides for a matching of risk environments with levy rates, so the cost of cover can be expected to increase. Across the board, a possible result will be employers structuring employment relations to shift responsibility for risk to employees, along the lines of the independent contractor model. There is reason to expect that this model would eventually apply across the board. Preliminary analysis of the changes also reveals that they will disproportionately impact on vulnerable workers and low-income families, as the bill decreases access to cover and decreases the level of compensation to these claimants.

At the other end of the spectrum is a scenario in which the accident compensation scheme values cultural competence. Professor Mason Durie describes cultural competence as being “about the acquisition of skills to achieve a better understanding of members of other cultures”. Culturally competent care involves practitioners establishing and maintaining positive relationships through improving their understanding of tikanga Māori and effective communication. The end goal, of course, is to achieve better health care outcomes for Māori. Cultural competence is a major focus for the Māori Party. We campaigned on it. We have consistently spoken of it across the health and social sectors, and this bill is no different.

There is another dimension to our decision to vote for this bill’s being referred to select committee to let the people have a say on accident compensation, and that is the potential for Māori entrepreneurship and enterprise to rise to the opportunity for innovation. In 2007 ACC undertook a risk-profile review with groups within the Ngāi Tahu umbrella, resulting in a considerable annual levy reduction. The Federation of Māori Authorities has also been interested in pursuing dialogue around levy rates and the possibility of a Māori consortium leading a corporate arrangement with ACC, possibly focusing initially on specific industry sectors such as forestry, fishing, construction, and farming.

For all of these reasons—and for more reasons that will, no doubt, arise from submissions—we agreed to support the introduction of the bill and its referral to a select committee so that people can express their views. We want to hear about people’s experience with the scheme. Among others, we want to hear from workers and their whānau who have suffered an injury, health workers, and providers of rehabilitation services. We do this so that the accident compensation scheme can once again be a world leader; so that it can be affordable, fair, and culturally competent; and so that it can remember always to focus on the best interests of the community.

[spookytooth]

for money as far as i can tell

[Elysium]

They'll do anything to get the seabed and foreshore.

[modboy]

Maori Party will support anything and everything, including the joke that is the ETS, for one reason only. They want to repeal the seabed and foreshore act. Provided they are licking up Nationals arse the possibility of that is still on the table. I guess it's the price we pay for MMP.

[crazyhorse]

THey probably have the least amount of riders out there............:Oops:

[Ronin]

ACC is for white mofo's bro

aue

chur

cuz

[Bassmatt]

Theyre fucken hypocrites man, they will be the first ones crying when the planned changes to ACC and then the ETS kick in. :crybaby:

[NONONO]

Erm...could it be because they are a political party in coalition with the Nats. Do ya think that might have something to do with it?
Arghhh, not going there, just brown bashing again,,Its a National policy. If you want to Maori bash find another reason.
Jeeeez!

[StoneY]

What i dont get is 99% of his statement seems to support the fact ACC should be left the fuck alone and fully restored to the Woodhouse intentions
Its clearly stating the changes seem to make it likely to cost Maori more....
And WTF is with stating Maori have 155 accidents to Mofo's 111? Not my fault they dont pay attention in thier work, or go too hard on the weekend league game


And wtf is the bitch with the number of 'non earners' that get to rort ACC, theyre being 'disadvantaged?'
80% of the dole....they get to eat whats the fuckin problem?

Man....what else can they bitch about, thats the most fucked up dribble I have ever seen coming from the Maori Party crew

I have had 3 longish ACC claims in my life, one from a work accident one from sport, and never once from a motorbike crash
One was from a drunk fall!

Im not racist but its getting harder and harder to swallow this bullshit in the land I was BORN in

[ManDownUnder]

Politics, pure and simple. It's the least loss option for them (or in this case, a ticket to climb back aboard the greivance train)

[NONONO]

ANNNND, we're off...
Divisive bullshit again.
It's a National Party proposal. I say again, A National Party proposal....
But lets not let that get in the way eh?

[Pixie]

Titewhai reckons it has something to do with baubles.

[Laxi]

on the wednesday the maori party said they wouldn't support any changes to ACC, on the saturday maori tv was given joint rights to the world cup coverage and on the monday they voted to pass the law changes need just to change ACC! you work it out!
oh and
ANNNND, we're off...
Divisive bullshit again.
It's a National Party proposal. I say again, A National Party proposal....
But lets not let that get in the way eh?

once again... FUCK OFF TROLL:finger:

[SPman]

Because they are gutless bastards who have sold their souls for thrupence of fuck all!

[dpex]

[QUOTE=Wobblyas;1129536817]I don't get it. Here is the speech Rahui gave on the first reading of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill. Am I right in thinking that without the Marori party support this bill will not go through or can they get it through with just ACTs support?

Maybe, instead of pointing out the shortcomings of Rahui's speech, bringing her attention to deficits she has clearly not yet understood might be in order.

Better to make an enemy into a friend than help grow the enemy's bitterness.

Here's my response to Rahui.

Letter sent tonight.

Tell me what you think.

Dear Sir,

With regard to you speech in Parliament regarding ACC levies, I trust the following will gain your interest.

The inequities of the current and proposed ACC levies regarding ACC are as follows.

1. The method of levy has an inherent notion of fault due to the variations in levy as determined by industry-type, yet this method of determination fails to recognise the specific value each payer contributes to our society. Nor does it recognise the risk presented by each worker when he she is not at work.

For example, a forestry worker pays a huge levy compared to a dunny cleaner, yet without each our society could not function. Yet the former is penalised via ACC while the latter is not.

Yet, the dunny-cleaner may be involved in an extreme sport, and thus become a significant risk, while the forestry worker may lead a dull and boring private life and thus presents no specific risk outside work hours. Thus both types of worker are treated inequitably.

2. Beneficiaries of all types pay no ACC source levy at all thus they are benefiting at the expense of workers.

3. Unemployed children and students pay no ACC yet they are significant recipients of ACC largesse (as they should be) yet contribute nothing.

4. Tourists pay no ACC yet are beneficiaries of the ACC system.

5. Only registered road-users pay two extra, targeted levies. On via registration, the other via a fuel levy.

The point being made in the above is that ACC liability is not being evenly shared by the inevitable recipients.

Evenly can be read in two distinct contexts. Firstly, variable employee levies are based upon assessed risk, not income levels, therefore the risk-determined levies are uneven. Moreover, the risk is related only to a work environment yet all are covered for any accident at any time. Secondly, low income earners and beneficiaries of all types pay a far higher (proportionately) cost than do high income earners, and most especially when those low income earners work in high-risk industries and own one or more motor-vehicles.

For example, the average pen-pushing blotter-jotter earning $120K a year, wearing a flash suit yet doing little, pays way less ACC than a $40K a year Maori forestry worker. Why? Given the uncontrollable variable of what each does outside work hours.

It follows that Maori, given statistically lower general income rates of Maori, are significant victims of this inequitable levy method.

Now allow me to bring your attention to extra ‘targeted’ levies. In fact there is but one and it is upon only all registered road-users, via registration and fuel tax.

Once again, Maori, being statistically lower income earners pay a greater proportionate (to their income) levy than higher earners.

. . .

Sir Owen Woodhouse made much of the concept of social equality when proposing the original ACC concept.

As you know he asserted that every person in a society contributes a part which no other can contribute. By this he meant a singular forestry worker is no less or more important than a Prime Minister….despite many Prime Ministers wishing to believe the opposite.

He asserted each person has some level of meaningful input into a society. For example, were in not for criminals tens of thousands of folk working for all sectors of law enforcement would not have their current jobs.

It follows that your party could argue that the 50% of the prison population being Maori means that the justice-system employees owe a great deal to Maori, in particular.

Hoever, if each member of a society is as necessary to that society as all others, then each person has the right to be treated fairly and evenly. Clearly, the transformed ACC levy scheme defies this notion of fairness based upon individual value, as opposed to individual risk.

It is clear that if ACC levies were based upon actual individual risk across any particular 7-day time-frame, then many Maori would be distinctly penalised.

For example: During 2008, of the 44 road-deaths which were attributed to significant over-consumption of alcohol, 20 of them were Maori deaths (AA Directions Winter 2009).

I hasten to add the foregoing was not designed as a comment on Maori, particularly. It simply draws attention to yet another inequality…and may I add, tragedy.


And so, the prime moots of this communication are that the current method of ACC levying is significantly inequitable over all markers, and that there is a far fairer and equitable method of funding ACC. A method which does not presume that one person is more or less likely to be an ACC claimant. It does not presume any association with presumed risk of any sort and, most importantly, it enables all persons within our society, including the million-plus visitors, to contribute while being treated with absolute equality of value.

That method is: Remove all other ACC levies and raise GST by 2.5% and use that income to both fund ACC and fund as many practical, hands-on, and meaningful accident prevention programmes as can be devised.

By removing ACC levies from all earners (employee/er contributions) and return that money to the pockets of the earner, every employee will have more to spend, thus the economy blossoms.

By removing the targeted road-user levies all registered road-users will have more to spend on GST-attracting items…The economy blossoms further.

By invoking a universal, no-fault tax every person, man woman, child and tourist, contributes in accordance with their net disposable income on all items attracting GST yet ignores their risk potential, which is exactly what Sir Owen designed.


Your (KBers) comments would be greatly appreciated.

[paturoa]

I'm just structurring up an email myself to him.

Here is my draft...... what do you think (ignore the spelling)?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

In your speech regarding the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill, you state that "The March 2008 report of Statistics New Zealand revealed that Māori have significantly higher injury rates by occupation, with 155 injuries per 1000 fulltime-equivalent workers, compared with 111 for Pākehā. It is higher particularly in occupations such as agriculture, fisheries, manufacturing, and trades. There are also significantly more injuries in lower-paid occupations, where Māori are overrepresented."

The obvious point you are making is that this is not right, and I agree.

I wish to bring to your attention the proposed Motorcycles Levy changes, where there are significant increases, that ACC states are primarily driven by higher injury rates, claims rates and costs as they are overrepresented compared to other road users.

Note that it is ACC's position is that this is appropriate, fair and reasonable, in their proposal documents, media statements and nationwide news paper advertisements.

So if indeed we argree that Maori are dissproportionally impacted, as are motorcyclists, then the parallels are obvious, the conclusions are simply unpalatable.

This leads us to the absurd, where, were we to accept ACC's position regarding Motorcyclists is appropriate, then their position should also be that Maori should pay higher levies than non-Maori.

Can you please let me know your position on the proposed Motorcycle levy increases.

Cheers ears etc

>>>>>>>>>

[rebel]

ANNNND, we're off...
Divisive bullshit again.
It's a National Party proposal. I say again, A National Party proposal....
But lets not let that get in the way eh?

Ironic you should say that while defending a divisive political party.

[Mudfart]

theres nothing wrong with MMP. It was well known that if National was elected, their partner in crime was going to be the maori party.
Would we be better off if all the retards who voted national, only had national making the rules? hell no! the ACC levy would already be in effect! Our prisons, hospitals, and universities would already be privatised.
And I would be on a plane to oz.
In some states you can ride a 650 on learners.
No, the problem lies in voting National in, in the first place.
It just shows the retarded, backward hicks there are in this country..... "I voted National simply because Labour had been in too long".
Lets forget THINKING about our vote, and INFORMED choices.

[Ronin]

ANNNND, we're off...
Divisive bullshit again.
It's a National Party proposal. I say again, A National Party proposal....
But lets not let that get in the way eh?

You are 100% correct. It's a national party proposal. That the Maori party are supporting... At the cost of their own people. See the irony in that?

[98tls]

theres nothing wrong with MMP. It was well known that if National was elected, their partner in crime was going to be the maori party.
Would we be better off if all the retards who voted national, only had national making the rules? hell no! the ACC levy would already be in effect! Our prisons, hospitals, and universities would already be privatised.
And I would be on a plane to oz.
In some states you can ride a 650 on learners.
No, the problem lies in voting National in, in the first place.
It just shows the retarded, backward hicks there are in this country..... "I voted National simply because Labour had been in too long".
Lets forget THINKING about our vote, and INFORMED choices. So your saying that rather than get arse raped by one you would rather bend over and be gangbanged by all the hangers on as well,fuck MMP.Jesus there already stitching us up,carbon credits:killingme:killingme fuckers laid waste to everything:argh:still are and they want carbon credits,as i say fuck MMP."BROWN BASHING" be fucked,bludgers are bludgers no matter what colour there skin and deserved to be called so.

[short-circuit]

You are 100% correct. It's a national party proposal. That the Maori party are supporting... At the cost of their own people. See the irony in that?

I agree with NONONO.

Seems to me this thread is just an excuse for gratuitous racism.

Let's not forget the Maori Party is a political organisation - they are hardly representative of their own paople and (like National) don't necessarily have "their own people's interests" in mind

If anyone's trolling surely it is the OP.

[98tls]

I agree with NONONO.

Seems to me this thread is just an excuse for gratuitous racism.

Let's not forget the Maori Party is a political organisation - they are hardly representative of their own paople and (like National) don't necessarily have "their own people's interests" in mind

If anyone's trolling surely it is the OP. All things considered to me the Maori party is an excuse for gratuitous racism and agreed, talking with Maori blokes round here they dont seem to have there own peoples interests in mind nor voice many of thems opinions.

[short-circuit]

All things considered to me the Maori party is an excuse for gratuitous racism and agreed, talking with Maori blokes round here they dont seem to have there own peoples interests in mind nor voice many of thems opinions.

Perhaps - It's hard to know what the fuck those bastards stand for....however, National Party voting bikers have got absolutely no cause to complain - they are getting exactly what they asked for

[Ronin]

I agree with NONONO.

Seems to me this thread is just an excuse for gratuitous racism.

Let's not forget the Maori Party is a political organisation - they are hardly representative of their own paople and (like National) don't necessarily have "their own people's interests" in mind

If anyone's trolling surely it is the OP.

I must have missed it. Show me the gratuitous racism.

[NONONO]

All things considered to me the Maori party is an excuse for gratuitous racism and agreed, talking with Maori blokes round here they dont seem to have there own peoples interests in mind nor voice many of thems opinions.

My brown arse does not support them either.
But threads like this always seem to end up bashing.
At the wash up they will have some big questions to answer, to a lot of people.
My point was to keep the focus where it belongs.

[98tls]

Perhaps - It's hard to know what the fuck those bastards stand for....however, National Party voting bikers have got absolutely no cause to complain - they are getting exactly what they asked for Fair call though to be honest i dont think a vote would have mattered,someone fucked up and as it doesnt grow on trees once again it us thaty pays.

[short-circuit]

Show me the gratuitous racism.

Wouldn't expect you to pick up on it - to you it's apparently normal:


ACC is for white mofo's bro

aue

chur

cuz

[98tls]

My brown arse does not support them either.
But threads like this always seem to end up bashing.
At the wash up they will have some big questions to answer, to a lot of people.
My point was to keep the focus where it belongs. Again,fair call.And well put.

[p.dath]

dpex, I don't think Tourists are covered by ACC. I think they get given a bill if they go to Hospital.

I think only NZ residents are covered? Perhaps someone could clarify?

[NONONO]

dpex, I don't think Tourists are covered by ACC. I think they get given a bill if they go to Hospital.

I think only NZ residents are covered? Perhaps someone could clarify?

Tourists medical bills are covered, but they can't get a compo payout...

[Ronin]

Wouldn't expect you to pick up on it - to you it's apparently normal:

All depends on your interpretation of what was said and the intent with which it was said.

If it's racist to you then good on ya. I however beg to differ.

[dpex]

I'm just structurring up an email myself to him.

Here is my draft...... what do you think (ignore the spelling)?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

In your speech regarding the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill, you state that "The March 2008 report of Statistics New Zealand revealed that Māori have significantly higher injury rates by occupation, with 155 injuries per 1000 fulltime-equivalent workers, compared with 111 for Pākehā. It is higher particularly in occupations such as agriculture, fisheries, manufacturing, and trades. There are also significantly more injuries in lower-paid occupations, where Māori are overrepresented."

The obvious point you are making is that this is not right, and I agree.

I wish to bring to your attention the proposed Motorcycles Levy changes, where there are significant increases, that ACC states are primarily driven by higher injury rates, claims rates and costs as they are overrepresented compared to other road users.

Note that it is ACC's position is that this is appropriate, fair and reasonable, in their proposal documents, media statements and nationwide news paper advertisements.

So if indeed we argree that Maori are dissproportionally impacted, as are motorcyclists, then the parallels are obvious, the conclusions are simply unpalatable.

This leads us to the absurd, where, were we to accept ACC's position regarding Motorcyclists is appropriate, then their position should also be that Maori should pay higher levies than non-Maori.

Can you please let me know your position on the proposed Motorcycle levy increases.

Cheers ears etc

>>>>>>>>>

Excellent riposte. I'm looking forward to the response.

It follows the same argument can be leveled at other significant risk groupings.

Well done.

[dpex]

dpex, I don't think Tourists are covered by ACC. I think they get given a bill if they go to Hospital.

I think only NZ residents are covered? Perhaps someone could clarify?

Sorry P. You're misinformed. Tourists are covered for accident up to and including your and my entitlements. However, they are not covered for non-accident illness.

The tourist's entitlements to ACC are, in fact, a logical extension of one of the prime directives of ACC, ergo, 'Thou shalt not sue.' Thus, were tourists, or in fact any non-national covered by ACC they could sue a national through a NZ court.

[Mudfart]

So your saying that rather than get arse raped by one you would rather bend over and be gangbanged by all the hangers on as well,fuck MMP.Jesus there already stitching us up,carbon credits:killingme:killingme fuckers laid waste to everything:argh:still are and they want carbon credits,as i say fuck MMP."BROWN BASHING" be fucked,bludgers are bludgers no matter what colour there skin and deserved to be called so.

No, I'm saying that it was well known that if National was voted in, the Maori party was going to be voted in with them, that they are riding on nationals coattails. Just as when Labour got in, we all knew the Greens would be THEIR bedfellows.
And the reason that the Maori party are giving their support for the ACC bill is fairly bloody obvious isnt it? They are taking a bribe, kickback, what ever you want to call it, by "coming" to an agreement on giving Maori a shitload of land to plant trees on.
Pine trees or marijuana, or both.
Also, it leaves other deals open for discussion eg/ foreshore and seabed etc etc....
All I can say is, the Nats and Maoris are really gonna bleed the taxpayers, whereas the Labour and Greens I felt, were more reasonable with policy and decision making.
I was told yesterday that my job is to be privatised by xmas next year AT THE LATEST. Cool, I cant wait for my HUGE pay cut......
YOU'RE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[crazyhorse]

Because they can............:wari:

[StoneY]

It just shows the retarded, backward hicks there are in this country..... "I voted National simply because Labour had been in too long".
Lets forget THINKING about our vote, and INFORMED choices.


BINGO!

I was a public servant and PSA rep when these clowns were voted in, apathy is what got JK the top job, and I for one blame all the useless bastards who got pissed off with 'Nana State' mentality....I would rather have been Nana'd than fuckin sold out, and we all knew it would happen

No one knew it would happen all in year 1 though did they?

[kave]

My brown arse does not support them either.
But threads like this always seem to end up bashing.
At the wash up they will have some big questions to answer, to a lot of people.
My point was to keep the focus where it belongs.

The focus belongs on the government. The three polical parties in power are National, Act and the Maori party. The National party needs either one or the other of their partners to pass anything. Our chances of discouraging Act from supporting a move towards user pays are roughly the same as a snowballs chance in hell (and justifiably so, they are doing exactly what they were elected to do).

Our chances of pressuring the Maori Party are higher. They are already under fire for appearing to act in a manner that disadvantages their constituents and seem to be in the process of earning a reputation of supporting big (Maori) business instead of the common man. They are coming across as the Maori version of Act, but their constituents are generally leftwing. A big gesture is really required by them to put them back onside with voters. We should ensure that we can provide the opportunity for them to make the grand gesture (carrot), and also ensure that their constituency understands that if the Maori Party fail to oppose this, they are acting directly against what would be best for Maori in New Zealand (stick).

[Mudfart]

The Maori party might appear left wing to other Maori's, however I get the impression they are extreme right wing with militant cells. They just do whatever they want, take for example the Tai tukerau MP who just went to Paris and sent the racist email. He said, "I don't give a stuff what the NZ taxpayer thinks, I only care what the people of Tai tukerau think".
And Stoney, I feel for ya, PSA are in BIG trouble. They just got an email recently that said upto 12,000 of them are gonna lose their jobs. Thats largely from the medical sector, nurses etc... and you know why? Because hospitals, A and E clinics etc are up for sale. PRIVATISATION, everyone wins!!! NOT, it just temporarily bulges the treasury coffers before the next election to make Nats say, "Look how well we have done in govt, vote for us again", and the tards will. Then all the MP's will give themselves a HUGE WELL DESERVED PAY RISE.
And heads of various departments too, like the treasury minister who just GAVE HIMSELF an extra $40,000 a year payrise. Thats more than I earn in a year.

[NONONO]

The Maori party might appear left wing to other Maori's, however I get the impression they are extreme right wing with militant cells. They just do whatever they want, take for example the Tai tukerau MP who just went to Paris and sent the racist email. He said, "I don't give a stuff what the NZ taxpayer thinks, I only care what the people of Tai tukerau think".
And Stoney, I feel for ya, PSA are in BIG trouble. They just got an email recently that said upto 12,000 of them are gonna lose their jobs. Thats largely from the medical sector, nurses etc... and you know why? Because hospitals, A and E clinics etc are up for sale. PRIVATISATION, everyone wins!!! NOT, it just temporarily bulges the treasury coffers before the next election to make Nats say, "Look how well we have done in govt, vote for us again", and the tards will. Then all the MP's will give themselves a HUGE WELL DESERVED PAY RISE.
And heads of various departments too, like the treasury minister who just GAVE HIMSELF an extra $40,000 a year payrise. Thats more than I earn in a year.

Hey Mud
As a PSA delegate in health I would be extremely interested in that email. You sure about the figures? From where? 12, 000 from medical?

[NONONO]

From PSA site

« The double standards in public sector pay
Roundly misleading »
ACC reforms bad news for both workers and employers
By Richard Wagstaff

The public must be mystified that an organisation like ACC with more than $10 billion in reserves is in such financial strife that the Government is forced to reduce pay-outs and put up levies. And why, they may wonder, if ACC is such a financial liability, are private insurers lining up to get a slice of the action?

The truth appears to be that this ACC crisis has been manufactured to prepare the public for its privatisation. For years, ACC worked perfectly well as ‘a pay as you go’ scheme. It was- and still is- the envy of the world, a no-fault accident compensation scheme that provides security for workers and employers alike.

Now it’s deemed to be $4.8 billion in the red because it is required to “pre-fund” future obligations. However, as Tim Hazledine, Professor of Economics at the University of Auckland, pointed out in the NZ Herald, this is a bit like asking parents to pay upfront to meet the future obligations to their children. Since that sum would be several hundred thousand dollars, most parents could be deemed to be “broke; busted; bankrupt”.

Interestingly, employers are not so enamoured with the idea of handing over ACC to private insurers. “Having a full private insurance market won’t provide stability in the premium setting market, and it would make more forecasting and budgeting work for employers,” says Paul Jarvie, Occupational Health and Safety Manager for the Northern Employers and Manufacturers Association.

The only winners from privatising ACC are the same as those who benefit from the expensive and dysfunctional US health system – multinational insurance companies and the lawyers.

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[knuckles24]

i think they call it kickbacks, you scratch my back and i'll give you a couple of million

[st00ji]

tis interesting to see where former PMs end up

all the ones i can think of have pretty sweet jobs!

as for the maori party... they call themselves 'the maori party' you want to talk about playing the race card! fuck. trouble is they dont seem to really represent the majority of maori (at least not the ones i know) so the names a bit misleading.

[wingrider]

Perhaps there is someone here that will know more about Maori protocol.

I believe that the two most influential areas of Maori Mana seem to come from the Ratana Church at Wanganui and the home of the Maori King Turangawaiwai Marae in the waikato.

What would happen if we were to ride and present letters to their leaders advising that we believe their elected leaders were selling the majority of their people down the river without their waka and that all increases associated with ACC levies is going to put a very heavy burden on their people? Would need to be very polite and observe strict protocol.

Way off beat I know but I remember that when elected JK wasted no time in visiting both and thanking them for their support.

Is it time we asked if this was the support intended?

Already the cracks are appearing within the general Maori population and we might get a very favorable response. Lots of very unhappy BRO about.

Just a thought.

[Mudfart]

Hey Mud
As a PSA delegate in health I would be extremely interested in that email. You sure about the figures? From where? 12, 000 from medical?

This is from an email we received through CANZ.
By the way, the privatisation of prisons was rushed through parliament last week...and was passed. With the supporting votes of the Maori party.
My job is to be privatised by xmas next year "at the latest".
If all 4 new prisons are privatised, it costs the taxpayer an extra $7000 per prisoner per year. With double bunking of cells in the new prisons, its gonna cost the taxpayer an extra 24-30 million per year to pay the contractors who buy the jails.
Hey its what you Nat voters wanted, it makes the Nats "look" good.
Next is the medical institutions, education facilities (you can kiss easy access to student loans, and tertiary education goodbye), and there is even talk of privatising sectors of police. Cool, dial 111 and get rentacop at your door.
YOU'RE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NONONO]

This is from an email we received through CANZ.
By the way, the privatisation of prisons was rushed through parliament last week...and was passed. With the supporting votes of the Maori party.
My job is to be privatised by xmas next year "at the latest".
If all 4 new prisons are privatised, it costs the taxpayer an extra $7000 per prisoner per year. With double bunking of cells in the new prisons, its gonna cost the taxpayer an extra 24-30 million per year to pay the contractors who buy the jails.
Hey its what you Nat voters wanted, it makes the Nats "look" good.
Next is the medical institutions, education facilities (you can kiss easy access to student loans, and tertiary education goodbye), and there is even talk of privatising sectors of police. Cool, dial 111 and get rentacop at your door.
YOU'RE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any chance I could get hold of a copy of the email?

[Mudfart]

Any chance I could get hold of a copy of the email?

Lol, I can't give it out, I'll wind up the one behind the bars!
Rest assured, this is not just a corrections fight, this is nationwide, you should all be afraid.
Don't you all see the workers on the news nearly every night outside their jobs, picketing and protesting?
Our employment contracts expire in December, and the dept is refusing to renew them, you know why? Because the dept knows they are selling our jobs, and don't want to be in breach of any employment contracts they might sign next month.
I pray for the day they force the wharfies onto the picket line, or some group of workers that really hurts the country that makes joe public sit up and take notice. IT WILL HAPPEN.
YOU'RE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wingrider]

Lol, I can't give it out, I'll wind up the one behind the bars!
Rest assured, this is not just a corrections fight, this is nationwide, you should all be afraid.
Don't you all see the workers on the news nearly every night outside their jobs, picketing and protesting?
Our employment contracts expire in December, and the dept is refusing to renew them, you know why? Because the dept knows they are selling our jobs, and don't want to be in breach of any employment contracts they might sign next month.
I pray for the day they force the wharfies onto the picket line, or some group of workers that really hurts the country that makes joe public sit up and take notice. IT WILL HAPPEN.
YOU'RE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regardless if you are on individual or collective contracts your employer is obligated to enter into new discussions with you at least 2 months prior to the expiry of the existing contract.

They are obligated to negotiate in "Good faith". make their books open for inspection and I believe there is a specified time frame.

I do not believe they can simply refuse under current employment law.

I also believe that the existing contract stays active until a new contract is in place.

I would be taking legal advise.

[Ixion]

Hm.

Deaprtment of Corrections. Official Information Act.

Hardest thing about the OIA is knowing that what you're after actually exists.
Once you know that it's quite hard for them not to cough up.

So, DoC jobs privatised by Dec 2010. Hm.

[Mudfart]

Regardless if you are on individual or collective contracts your employer is obligated to enter into new discussions with you at least 2 months prior to the expiry of the existing contract.

They are obligated to negotiate in "Good faith". make their books open for inspection and I believe there is a specified time frame.

I do not believe they can simply refuse under current employment law.

I also believe that the existing contract stays active until a new contract is in place.

I would be taking legal advise.

yep its all been to court judges, who mysteriously freeze decisions.
I have said too much, I will not talk about any of this anymore.
I am donning a homemade tinfoil hat so they can't track me.
Fortunately I have good work skills, so I've just applied for a couple of jobs in Aucks.
And it looks like I'm gonna go stay in Oz for 2 weeks and job seek. Pity, coz I just got into bikes and Im luvin it, but I look forward to riding a bigger learner bike in Oz. Nats and Maoris can get stuffed.

[MacD]

They are obligated to negotiate in "Good faith".

Having had an employment dispute with an employer, I can tell you this phrase is held in utter contempt. The concept of good faith was well and truly trampled underfoot.

[Mudfart]

yep, what people fail to realise, is that todays court judges are fraternity brothers from university (or sorority sisters) with todays polititians.
Its all BS.
Like someone said, "you look after me, I'll look after you".
If YOU were a millionaire, would you want any other person the chance to also become a millionaire, thus threatening YOUR riches?
What kind of idiot would be willing to say "Here, take my position of power and wealth, you, after all, are the better man".
LOL.

[Mudfart]

Having had an employment dispute with an employer, I can tell you this phrase is held in utter contempt. All the Head of HR was interested in was whether they had done anything illegal that I could take action against. The concept of good faith was well and truly trampled underfoot.

On my first day in a job, I put my hand out to shake another guys, he said to me "Fuck off you fucken cunt, I fucken hate you". I was 21 years old, he was 40ish.
He held the power base at this job, and ostracised me from his mates and the managers.
I reported him for dropping a screwdriver behind a female worker, bending to pick it up and literally putting his nose up her bumhole.
He was a sexual deviant. It fell on deaf ears. Nothing went to upper management.
After I left the job, he touched the same female inappropriately, she ran from the job crying. The police were'nt called, it was the second time he had done this. Upper management wasn't informed. He was protected by his mates.
Now? Now he IS the production manager!!! I'd hate to be a female going for a job interview there!
Only one example of many injustices I've witnessed.

[NONONO]

Lol, I can't give it out, I'll wind up the one behind the bars!
Rest assured, this is not just a corrections fight, this is nationwide, you should all be afraid.
Don't you all see the workers on the news nearly every night outside their jobs, picketing and protesting?
Our employment contracts expire in December, and the dept is refusing to renew them, you know why? Because the dept knows they are selling our jobs, and don't want to be in breach of any employment contracts they might sign next month.
I pray for the day they force the wharfies onto the picket line, or some group of workers that really hurts the country that makes joe public sit up and take notice. IT WILL HAPPEN.
YOU'RE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Mud.
Ok mate, but now we are aware that this is in the pipe line we may be able to have some words with CANZ and see what they can legally provide, so thanks anyway, for doing nothing illegal I might add.
I only wish the PSA were not so in bed with the management. Partnership for Quality, my arse.
Sorry to hear your all getting the raz, have family working in the service so it's personal too.
Hope you and yours find a safe harbor, and don't give up or the bastards win.
Have just today emailed PSA to ask for their support for the fight against the levy hikes, while asking them to have a look at this site and it's support for ACC as it should be, Universal, no fault cover.
Hopefully the union movement will wake up soon (left, center and those unions and associations to the right0 and move the CTU off it's arse.
Public servants, not public dogsbodies to be kicked by those holding the purse strings.
Fuck em all, good luck buddy, I won't ask for any more info.

[98tls]

On my first day in a job, I put my hand out to shake another guys, he said to me "Fuck off you fucken cunt, I fucken hate you". I was 21 years old, he was 40ish.
He held the power base at this job, and ostracised me from his mates and the managers.
I reported him for dropping a screwdriver behind a female worker, bending to pick it up and literally putting his nose up her bumhole.
He was a sexual deviant. It fell on deaf ears. Nothing went to upper management.
After I left the job, he touched the same female inappropriately, she ran from the job crying. The police were'nt called, it was the second time he had done this. Upper management wasn't informed. He was protected by his mates.
Now? Now he IS the production manager!!! I'd hate to be a female going for a job interview there!
Only one example of many injustices I've witnessed. Really?:shit:If he does that shit at work fuck knows what he gets up to in his own time.The female should have gone to the cops herself.Serious shit.Had a taxi driver round here that tried some shit on with a lady i was living with,picked me up from home took me to a BBQ/piss up then the fucker went back to my house and tried on some well weird shit...well outta line.Took this chick about a month before she told me,frightened the shit out of her,she was to scared to tell me thinking i would nut out and go round there and give the bloke the bash,instead i waited until whilst out one night rang a cab and bingo it was him that picked us up.Piece of crap just wouldnt respond when i bought it up,looked straight ahead and shut his mouth.So wanted to smack him in the face but couldnt be bothered with the shit that would follow so instead when in town one day saw his also taxi driving wife waiting at the rank,jumped in the cab and whilst we drove round town informed her what her shit-head husband had been up to.<_<In hindsight i should have rung whoever is in charge of taxis and made a complaint,wasnt the first time he had done this shit i later found out.

[FastBikeGear]

The focus belongs on the government. The three polical parties in power are National, Act and the Maori party. The National party needs either one or the other of their partners to pass anything. Our chances of discouraging Act from supporting a move towards user pays are roughly the same as a snowballs chance in hell (and justifiably so, they are doing exactly what they were elected to do).

Our chances of pressuring the Maori Party are higher. They are already under fire for appearing to act in a manner that disadvantages their constituents and seem to be in the process of earning a reputation of supporting big (Maori) business instead of the common man. They are coming across as the Maori version of Act, but their constituents are generally leftwing. A big gesture is really required by them to put them back onside with voters. We should ensure that we can provide the opportunity for them to make the grand gesture (carrot), and also ensure that their constituency understands that if the Maori Party fail to oppose this, they are acting directly against what would be best for Maori in New Zealand (stick).

Agreed I think we need to be asking some tougher questions of the Marori party and be asking for a clarrification on where they stand on this issue.

Who in the Maori party should we be addressing our letters to in order to get this clarification?

[FastBikeGear]

Here is my draft...... what do you think (ignore the spelling)?

In your speech regarding the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill, you state that "The March 2008 report of Statistics New Zealand revealed that Māori have significantly higher injury rates by occupation, with 155 injuries per 1000 fulltime-equivalent workers, compared with 111 for Pākehā. It is higher particularly in occupations such as agriculture, fisheries, manufacturing, and trades. There are also significantly more injuries in lower-paid occupations, where Māori are overrepresented."

The obvious point you are making is that this is not right, and I agree.

I wish to bring to your attention the proposed Motorcycles Levy changes, where there are significant increases, that ACC states are primarily driven by higher injury rates, claims rates and costs as they are overrepresented compared to other road users.

Note that it is ACC's position is that this is appropriate, fair and reasonable, in their proposal documents, media statements and nationwide news paper advertisements.

So if indeed we argree that Maori are dissproportionally impacted, as are motorcyclists, then the parallels are obvious, the conclusions are simply unpalatable.

This leads us to the absurd, where, were we to accept ACC's position regarding Motorcyclists is appropriate, then their position should also be that Maori should pay higher levies than non-Maori.

Can you please let me know your position on the proposed Motorcycle levy increases.

Cheers ears etc


Very nice!

Did you get a response on this?

[MSTRS]

Very nice!

Did you get a response on this?

Unlikely. I played a similar card when we were engrossed in the cheesecutter thing. Tariana did not respond. At all.

[paturoa]

None yet.

I've penning up a variation on that question for Prick Smith tonight if I get an opportunity:

"ACC's rationale for segmention of Motorcycles levies has at its core that motorcycles have signficantly accident rates, the often quoted 16 times statistic comes to mind, and that simply we are over represented.

In Rahui Katene's speech at the first reading of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill last week, she highlighted that Māori have significantly higher injury rates compated to non-Maori and are over represented in every measure.

My question is, if the rationale is valid for motorcyclists, are you also proposing increased levies for Maori as well?"

[FastBikeGear]

None yet.

I've penning up a variation on that question for Prick Smith tonight if I get an opportunity:

"ACC's rationale for segmention of Motorcycles levies has at its core that motorcycles have signficantly accident rates, the often quoted 16 times statistic comes to mind, and that simply we are over represented.

In Rahui Katene's speech at the first reading of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill last week, she highlighted that Māori have significantly higher injury rates compated to non-Maori and are over represented in every measure.

My question is, if the rationale is valid for motorcyclists, are you also proposing increased levies for Maori as well?"

Great question [edit: actually it's not a great question, it's a brilliant question - quaranteed to give us media focus and highlight the inequity, unfairness and ridiculousness of the issue. - please - please ask this!] but can I suggest that we don't repeat the 16 x figure quoted by ACC but use the 'nearly 3 x' figure quoted by Professor Lamb instead. If we repeat the lie we also propgate it and help make it 'fact'.

[paturoa]

Done, 16 x thing - took that out entirely - and i've simplified it a lot also.

I'm going to give copies to Les as well as he is more likely to get to ask a question.

Latest version is:

"ACC's rationale for segmentation of Motorcycles levies is that motorcycles have significantly higher accident rates and that we are over represented compared to other road users.

In Rahui Katene's speech at the first reading of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill last week, she highlighted that Māori have significantly higher injury rates compared to non-Maori, and are over represented.

My question is, if the rationale for separate levies is valid for motorcyclists, are you also proposing separate levies for Maori?"

[NighthawkNZ]

Why do we support a fruadulant pyramid monetory scheme in the first place with flawed monetory system based on debt and scarsity which only those at the top of the pyramid get rich an technically own the earth resourses which is not theirs to buy or sell in the first place and belong to everyone on this planet...


oh sorry wrong thread again

[paturoa]

I didn't get to ask the question - but will email it to him.

[MSTRS]

I didn't get to ask the question - but will email it to him.

Stir some shit. Also send it in the form of a Letter to Ed to the Harold and the DumP. Include a reference to him not answering the question, and how that seems very suspicious. It's only a minor distortion of the truth. That's got to be ok...Nick the Prick utters MAJOR distortions. And gets away with it.