Advroutes Web page - want to take it over?

[cooneyr]

With a job change a year ago I've not had the time to update the Advroutes (http://www.advroutes.org.nz/) website and with our first baby on the way I'm expecting to have even less time. In my mind there is plenty of potential for this page to be expanded and sponsorship obtained, but it will take some effort. At the moment it is just costing me money for the domain name and server space.

So does anybody want to take it over and give it the attention it deserves? I'll provide all the files I have to date, help out as much as I can with info on how I've set it up (though there is probably a better way of doing things). You would have to take over the ownership and associated costs of the domain name and the server space.

If nobody is interested I'll probably pull the site down in the a couple of weeks (domain name costs due). I obviously still have the data and may just put raw GPS files up on a freebe site somewhere. This will mean that if anybody wants to use the data they will need to process it themselves.

Cheers R

[rogerh]

Ryan,

I for one would be really sad to see it go. I think you have done a great thing there, and I remember speaking to you about a year ago about the hosting and domain costs, but I certianly do not have the time to manage it. Have little enough time for riding unfortunately!

I have plenty of space on a web server (either windows or linux), and can handle the domain costs (can hide them with other ones:msn-wink:), which would make for a zero cost system. I can possibly set up a testing environment too if this is helpful.

If there is someone who can do the maintenance (you know, the real work), I am more than willing to deal with the rest.

[.chris]

I too would be sad to see this one go, I have been working towards logging a few northern adventure routes to add to the site (but disaster seems to strike everytime I try).

It is too valuable of a resouce to be lost.

I could lend my development expertise to this project and maybe we could get a more automated system working, eg the ability for people to upload routes them selves, which would cut back on that management time that no-one seems to have (including myself).

[rogerh]

I could lend my development expertise to this project and maybe we could get a more automated system working, eg the ability for people to upload routes them selves, which would cut back on that management time that no-one seems to have (including myself).

Seems like a good plan. So moderation is the main problem left? I know Ryan was very careful about what routes should be published, and this is not a small issue.

[paddy]

I too would be sad to see this one go, I have been working towards logging a few northern adventure routes to add to the site (but disaster seems to strike everytime I try).

It is too valuable of a resouce to be lost.

I could lend my development expertise to this project and maybe we could get a more automated system working, eg the ability for people to upload routes them selves, which would cut back on that management time that no-one seems to have (including myself).

Ditto. I wonder if we could get a small group of stakeholders involved - establish a roadmap, break the development into manageable chunks, etc.

[CookMySock]

This sort of thing could be a valuable part of KB.

Steve

[Eddieb]

I could be interested in a part in a stakeholder group. I have a web background and am an active GPS user.

[warewolf]

I could certainly help. Possibly host it, or get it hosted cheap. Infrastructure admin is no problem, development fine, but because of the above I don't use more technology (ie a GPS!!) in my leisure time :D

[paddy]

I vote c.h.r.i.s as the stakeholder group secretary/president/manager/organiser. When's our first stakeholder meeting Chris?

[cooneyr]

Thanks for the comments about it being a useful resource guys. I'm most certainly not a web site developer and have only got as far as I have by bungling along. I'm more than happy for people to provide input into how the process could be automated more/entirely, though I still believe that moderation is a key step in the process.

Not sure how to proceed from here but maybe I could try and prepare a list of the issues with the site for discussion?

Obviously the server space and domain name offers are greatfully recieved.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

I'm most certainly not a web site developer and have only got as far as I have by bungling along.

Less bungling now than in the beginning though :D

[rogerh]

I still believe that moderation is a key step in the process.



You have been doing this. Any idea on the best way to handle it?

I suppose we really need someone capable to step up.

With the "bungling along". At least you got something done. Talk is cheap, and there are always plenty of people with better ideas, but you actually did something!

This seperates you from the herd by a pretty wide margin in my book.

[Waihou Thumper]

I for one think you have done a superb job Ryan....:woohoo:
I will be travelling down south in January and will be uploading some of the tracks on the site to my GPS. I wish there was more, but I can use the wealth of information on here to get some of the roads less travelled.
I am a user of a GPS and have plenty of tracks to add to the maps, I guess it is a matter of how and who can do the editing etc.
Wish I had the knowledge because it could be developed into a very handy tool for all!
We have to contribute regularly guys, so get out there and save your logs....:)

[.chris]

cooneyr, if you could provide a bit of info about how it functions currently would be handy.
Then I could write up a doc to explain how it could be built.
Then we can have a community feedback/discussion about what functionality/features would be a good to have as there seem to be a few people keen to help out and I am sure plenty of good ideas between them.

And I am sure there are ideas that you would like to have seen done.

[.chris]

another easy option would be to start using www.mapmyride.com (http://www.mapmyride.com/), just means we do not have that specific kiwi routes thing, but would do the job I am sure.

[cooneyr]

another easy option would be to start using www.mapmyride.com (http://www.mapmyride.com/), just means we do not have that specific kiwi routes thing, but would do the job I am sure.

Interesting site. The technology is obviously all there to allow somebody to load the data up themselves we would just need to adapt this for the ADVroutes site. The biggest hassle seems to me to be the file format conversion i.e. one track log in GPX format has to be converted to two route files (GPX format again) and in the process a whole heap of points stripped out (need a 50 point and a 250 point version). Also need a KML file for overlaying on the Google Map. i.e. one file must become three. Oh and the GPX route files need to have some of the header stripped out so they work with the PHP page that can upload directly to a GPS so make that 5 files!

I've been way to busy for the past week to write how the site works and I have more work to do on the DB1k GPS route this week so next weekend hopefully.

Cheers R

[Transalper]

Always thought you were doing too much for everyone on the Adv Routes site.
I'd have just given them one track log (or estimated track file for the unlogged stuff) and pointed them to Bable maybe with a quick start guide to convert the logs to routes themselves with what ever number of points they want.
It's really a quite simple procedure that anyone should be able to manage if they apply themselves for a few minutes.

[Eddieb]

+1

Google Earth supports gpx files, does Google Maps not?

Edit: No it doesn't. I did find this fairly comprehensive online tool for doing conversions to and from Google Maps.

[cooneyr]

Always thought you were doing too much for everyone on the Adv Routes site.
I'd have just given them one track log (or estimated track file for the unlogged stuff) and pointed them to Bable maybe with a quick start guide to convert the logs to routes themselves with what ever number of points they want.
It's really a quite simple procedure that anyone should be able to manage if they apply themselves for a few minutes.

Originally it was a bit much of a chore but now because it is automated (GPSBabel can be run with dos commands so I've written a batch file) so it is easy. Problem with this is creating the links.

I don't think it will do much to attract people to the site just giving people track files that they then have to convert to a route file with the appropriate number of points for their GPS. I suspect most people don't even know the difference between a Track and Route file or how many points a route file can have on their GPS.


+1

Google Earth supports gpx files, does Google Maps not?

Edit: No it doesn't. I did find this fairly comprehensive online tool for doing conversions to and from Google Maps.

Your right Google earth can handle GPX files and Maps not. I check some time ago and should really check again but I dont think I can use a GPX file as a google map overlay.

Cheers R

[Transalper]

.... I suspect most people don't even know the difference between a Track and Route file or how many points a route file can have on their GPS....
About time they learned, it's just some of the stuff the should know if they want to get the most out of their units.

[Eddieb]

opps, forgot to post the link I found earlier.

gpx to kml online converter.

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com

[cooneyr]

About time they learned, it's just some of the stuff the should know if they want to get the most out of their units.

Yes well you and I know that but then again we spend too much time on KB/computers too ;) First point would be to get the GPX loaded via a upload page, automatically create a link and the KML file and go from them. The rest should be very easy from there on anyway as the process will already be established.

Cheers R

[rogerh]

I really do like the idea of automating it a little. While we could all use the technology I am sure, I like the way the site is pretty visual, and you can get a lot of benefit from it without using a GPS (which some don't have). I brought one so I could contribute tracks, but really don't use one otherwise.

I play with other technology at work most days and stuffing around with technology goes totally against having a good time on a bike for me. (just my view though) I want stuff that will survive the odd endo :whistle:

Maybe different from others, but the simplicity and ease of use of the site is a big bonus I think. This does not mean the technology behind it is simple, but I think Ryan made a good choice of platform in google maps, as it is really user friendly. Best I have seen as yet, but another good one is motowhere (http://www.motowhere.com/listpaths/country/178). Pretty road oriented though, but good descriptions. Click on them. Google maps again.

[cooneyr]

....... Best I have seen as yet, but another good one is motowhere (http://www.motowhere.com/listpaths/country/178). Pretty road oriented though, but good descriptions. Click on them. Google maps again.

One of the things I was really keen to do was to have all the routes for each island visible on one map. This is because it shows the routes in relation to each other so you can pick a selection of routes that go well together to form a complete ride. Having a list of route and having to click on each one to open a map looses that completely.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

It's easy enough (sorta) to have the tracks converted by a script into 50/250 versions at upload time and even conversion from trk to rte can be totally automated.

If you have total control of the apache server.

I've had a website running for years that you upload a photo to and it resizes it down to commonly accepted sizes.

Nothing is unpossible.

Hmmm...

Now I'm not having to maintain the motorcycle club website this could be an interesting project.

[.chris]

Maybe we need to sit down over a few beers and nut this one out.

Friday night before the DB1k, might be a good plan.

I kinda envisioned cropping the files back to a raw gps data format, so they could be exported to whatever format requested, the file formats for the KML, GPX etc are all pretty simple to generate if you have the right gps data.

And it would be easy enough to have people upload these files in either format and strip them back to raw gps data.

But of course this would be a bit of development involved, but could be done.

[cooneyr]

It's easy enough (sorta) to have the tracks converted by a script into 50/250 versions at upload time and even conversion from trk to rte can be totally automated.

If you have total control of the apache server.

I've had a website running for years that you upload a photo to and it resizes it down to commonly accepted sizes.

Nothing is unpossible.

Hmmm...

Now I'm not having to maintain the motorcycle club website this could be an interesting project.

Sounds like you know what your talking about :msn-wink: How do we figure out how more about the server (current or otherwise). Maybe WW and Rogerh might like to comment about this wrt the servers they were discussing/offering?


Maybe we need to sit down over a few beers and nut this one out.

Friday night before the DB1k, might be a good plan....

I agree that we need to have more of a chat about this but the Friday night before the DB1k is going to be dry and I'll not be around for long. I'm starting the DB1k at 8pmish with a few of the other SBC riders. When do you head south for the DB1k? I'll probably be in Chch all hols and will probably be around to talk about this more (note lots of probablies in this!)

Cheers R

[rogerh]

Sounds like you know what your talking about :msn-wink: How do we figure out how more about the server (current or otherwise). Maybe WW and Rogerh might like to comment about this wrt the servers they were discussing/offering?


I am actually in Christchurch this week, so if you want to have a quick chat about it over a beer, let me know, (send me a PM) but the story with what I can offer is that at work we already host several simpler, and some database driven web sites, which are both on dedicated (one windows, one debian) servers. These have heaps of CPU cycles to spare, tons of RAM and disk space, and I can provide SSH/RDP connection to either via an IPSEC tunnel, so much more control that you would have in most data centres.

Nordie, you say you want control over the apache server. No problem, but I have made the wrong assumption more than once you are assuming a linux server (which I prefer for this sort of thing), as there is apache for windows!! Some box software we have uses this:bash:
Our windows server runs IIS, and the apache config on the linux one is pretty curly (well deeper than my peanut can deal with!) but I have access to people that can help if we need it.

All of this comes down to Chris's question about how the current site has been put together. And I think Chris's weapon of choice is C# (??? Chris can correct me if I am wrong, as my memory often fails me).

Is a phone conference in order here? I can jack up a bridge if you can all dial in.

Helpful? PM if you want more details.

[cooneyr]

Hi Rogerh,

Most of your went straight over my head so I'll leave it for Nordie and Chris to understand and comment! I'm not available this week with a work do tonight and heading to Hanmer on Thrursday night then NN on Friday morning so sorry I wont be able to meet up.

I'm hoping this long weekend (taking fri and mon off) I'll get the DB1k nav stuff finished and I'll try and write a document about how the current site works.

Cheers R

[rogerh]

Ryan,

No worries, I have plenty to do here as well. Good luck.

[cooneyr]

With a job change a year ago I've not had the time to update the Advroutes (http://www.advroutes.org.nz/) website and with our first baby on the way I'm expecting to have even less time. In my mind there is plenty of potential for this page to be expanded and sponsorship obtained, but it will take some effort. At the moment it is just costing me money for the domain name and server space.

So does anybody want to take it over and give it the attention it deserves? I'll provide all the files I have to date, help out as much as I can with info on how I've set it up (though there is probably a better way of doing things). You would have to take over the ownership and associated costs of the domain name and the server space.

If nobody is interested I'll probably pull the site down in the a couple of weeks (domain name costs due). I obviously still have the data and may just put raw GPS files up on a freebe site somewhere. This will mean that if anybody wants to use the data they will need to process it themselves.

Cheers R

Case of Deja-vu I think. I got another invoice for web hosting space on the weekend. I've been busy loading the GPS files up to a new Windows Live Account (http://cid-6379f16a64cde0f6.office.live.com/browse.aspx/AdvRoutes%20GPS%20files?lc=5129) and I'm going to pull down the site (made complete backup first). Thought I dredge this thread and let you all know what has happened. Obviously our baby has arrived and as predicted time is in even more short supply now let alone dwindling funds.

If anybody is still keen to host the site and take over the doman name let me know as I'm still more than happy to pass on the files. In the mean time the hosting account will be shut down in about 5 days. The domain name is paid for up to the 11/1/2011 so all anybody needs to do at the moment is host the data.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Pity to see it go but I'm not silly enough to take on another website.

Or maybe I am...

Dammit, you've got me thinking now...

[cooneyr]

Even if nothing happens with the development of the site for a while it just needs somebody to host it for now.

[cooneyr]

Lets think about this some more. The cost issues are the hosting cost and the domain name cost. I'm not unhappy about covering the $45 a year for the domain name. The hosting cost is about $200 a year but it seems there are a few people out there who could provide this free. I've given up on my initial desire to try and make the site financial viable through advertising etc (I'll ditch the Get Routed add - agreement fulfilled). This means I'm happy to go cap in hand and have already has an offer.

Re development of the site. I'm tempted to try and simplify it more to reduce time involvement. This could be done by ditching the route descriptions and the route clasifications. Deciding on and implimenting these two are the most time consuming parts. Do they actually add any value? The 50 point, 250 point, KML and route or track file (last two are what is supplied to me/collected) are easy to set up. The links to them are a little bit time consuming but not a big deal.

What is really needed is a upload page that people can submit the track or route file too, the ability to strip out times (so speed cannot be calculated), the ability to run a Bat file (already have this) that calls GPSbable to generate the files, and then subject to moderation, the ability to append to a KML file the data for map overlay including links to the appropriate GPX files. Can anybody help with development of the upload process? The development can be done completely off line in stages as and when you want. First step - create the ability for a file to be uploaded to a "hidden" folder on the site.

I'm also thinking that a seperate moderator/manager for each island would be a good idea. I know bugger all about the NI so if somebody was prepare to look after the north island that would be a big help. I have a number of files for the NI and the likes of Eddieb etc has heaps more. Also I have all the 4wd book files converted and ready to go (have the authors permission). This would be a lot less time consuming when the automated upload system is working.

I dont want to see this website go either and if all that happens at this point is the hosting is covered thats at least brought some time (already had an offer). I really need some help with the upload process development though, but not right now as I'm suppose to be working on getting my registration in August after 10 years working in my field:shutup:.

Cheers R

[.chris]

Hi Ryan,

I can host it, ongoing development I shall have to put into the maybe column.

Are you able to package/send the site to me (chris@pixelle.co.nz)?

I can get it uploaded and ready for the domain move.

Cheers

[rogerh]

My offer of hosting, and sorting the domain fees still stands. I can do basic management of the site, but I am no programmer, or network admin for that matter.

Just let me know if I can help. Chris, don't pay anything for hosting. All good if you have a server tucked away somewhere, but don't pay anything extra. For this, or any other "private" projects if you need a place.

[cooneyr]

Well that is 3 offers to host in 12 hours. Much appreciated guys. MarkS offer is in the box seat at the moment and when I started the site he gave me some space then too. I'll give that a nudge first and see if that works out.

[rogerh]

Well that is 3 offers to host in 12 hours. Much appreciated guys. MarkS offer is in the box seat at the moment and when I started the site he gave me some space then too. I'll give that a nudge first and see if that works out.

All good. Just don't let the excellent effort that has gone into the site to date go to waste. For any faults and failings it is there and working. It would be a shame to go backwards from that.

[Big Dave]

The data is all on google and the site is a front end to it?

[cooneyr]

The data is all on google and the site is a front end to it?

I suspect you know a whole heap more about websites that me but there is a PHP page and a google maps API thingame (whatever that is). I'd still need to run at least one google map's front page i'd have thought. Any advice gratefully received.

Cheers R

[Big Dave]

I was thinking if there was a way to keep it going as a Kiwi Rider resource or backing.

will investigate further and report - taa

[Big Dave]

Just had a quick glance.

How does the data get entered on the maps - gps files emailed to you?

[cooneyr]

Just had a quick glance.

How does the data get entered on the maps - gps files emailed to you?

Have a look at the code in the NI Map Page (http://www.advroutes.org.nz/mapni.html) or SI Map Page (http://www.advroutes.org.nz/mapsi.html) pages. Basically a bunch of KML files overlaid over the google map under the "import map overlay data" comment. I manually update the KML files with low resolution versions of the route data and provide links to the GPX files (most easily managed Garmin GPS date file formats).

The updating of the KML files is the biggest headach i.e. the bit I'd like to automate and would be good to set up so others could upload to the site.

[Big Dave]

Yeah - some sort of user registration and group input would be the answer.

Haven't got that sort of functionality on the hosting we're on unfortunately.

Colin knows that shite and have you seen his map cabinet?

[cooneyr]

Yeah - some sort of user registration and group input would be the answer.

Haven't got that sort of functionality on the hosting we're on unfortunately.

Colin knows that shite and have you seen his map cabinet?

Got a link to the map cabinet?

Edit - penny's dropped.

[warewolf]

Yep I do that shite for a living, but don't have the time to take it on right now. Get it hosted somewhere for the moment, we'll see how things look later.

If KiwiRider want to back it, it can be hosted elsewhere with links on the KR pages - no-one would ever know. But possibly that defeats the purpose of their involvement?

[cooneyr]

Yep I do that shite for a living, but don't have the time to take it on right now. Get it hosted somewhere for the moment, we'll see how things look later.

If KiwiRider want to back it, it can be hosted elsewhere with links on the KR pages - no-one would ever know. But possibly that defeats the purpose of their involvement?

Is this my opportunity to say I'll sell it to KR for "1 million dollars" (with and Austin Powers accent)? Tell Vege to give me a call :innocent:

I want to keep it on the web but dont have the time to chase up advertising money nor do I have much time to manually keep updating and I don't have the skills to do the clever thing and automate the site.

I'll chase up the offers of hosting space, transfer the site to keep it up but I'm more than happy to recieve help to cleverise the site down the track.

[Big Dave]

I'm working with illustrious publisher at Speedshow this weekend. What sort of commission are you paying on that Mil?

Parking the pages on KR is no sweat - access for updating the data I needs to ponder.

[cooneyr]

I'm working with illustrious publisher at Speedshow this weekend. What sort of commission are you paying on that Mil?

Parking the pages on KR is no sweat - access for updating the data I needs to ponder.

Depends on how big the mil you negotiate is ;)