Smacking - sometimes it's just hard not to do!

[PrincessBandit]

In at the local city council offices today I witnessed 2 toddlers helping themselves to pamphlets and running around with them. When one of the staff members tried nicely to get them back the youngest threw a screaming hissy and held them behind her back (all of about 2 years old). The (older) woman reached around saying something like "how about I take these and you can have this one" and the little missy open hand smacked the woman across the face. All of this with 2 adults who were with them doing nothing.

The elderly man with them mumbled something about "sorry" but not another word was said. As they walked past me apparently happy as larry I said "I'd have been disgusted if either of my children had just done that". Well, I got a rant over how it was all the government's fault and how they'd end up in the shit it they dealt with the kid; the woman then butted in and told me to "stay out of it". (Which I know I should probably have done, but it incensed me that the little brat could just do that and neither the mother or grandfather - which is what the adults appeared to be to these girls- did a thing).

Apparently they'd be in there for some time before I went in, being general little pains in the arse completely unchecked. Then to top it off with slapping a staff member across the face! The reaction on all the other people in the building was shocked, but not one person said a thing. Except me cos I just couldn't help myself. Aaaaarrrrrggggghh! And we wonder why when they get to school they're already uncontrollable. Hmmmm. Go figure.

Rant over!

[98tls]

Crazy eh,Still no doubt in there teens or so someone will tire of there crap and put them on there arse.

[YellowDog]

I would have voiced my disgust too.

Simple answer:

The parents should be held accountable; charged with assulting a staff member and also creating a public disturbance.

I suspect that their next visit would have been more peaceful.

[MSTRS]

Those parents/grandparents would be the types that wouldn't discipline their kids anyway. Blaming their inaction on the govt is just a copout. One of them could have removed the child at the first sign of escalating trouble.
(Technically they are right though. You are not supposed to smack as punishment, only in an attempt to stop the child harming itself or others. Who could foresee the kid slapping the staff member?)

[pzkpfw]

I blame the way things are seen as Black and White in so many areas. In this case, any "violence" at all, in any form, is now "wrong" and evil and gets you arrested.


I have a mate who was sent to hospital with a broken arm; whacked by his Dad with a 2 x 4.

That was wrong, OK? We all agree?

Now those toddlers in that office in the OP, on the other hand; a smack (more to shock than hurt) would have been a nice quick way to say "stop it now".

That's not assault. Right?



(Me = Father of two, in case anyone wants to know.)

[crazyhorse]

I know quite a few parents that do smack their children - and I say "good for them"

Didn't do me any harm, and neither did my kids any harm. At least they learnt right from wrong and also learnt to respect people and things.

Good on ya PrincessBandit :niceone:

[mashman]

I'm all for punishment with reason. Especially in circumstances where my child directs anger at someone other than me. Christ, my girls, 22 months, 4 and 6 and are very very smart... they know whaT THEY'RE DOING AND UNLESS YOU CAN GIVE THEM A REASON TO LISTEN TO YOU I.E. I'M GONNA SMACK YOUR ARSE OFF THE TOP OF YOUR LEGS, THEN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO THE REASONING BEHIND IT. (Sorry about the caps and cannae be fooked retyping)

When i was a kid I was smacked by the neighbours, but they always spoke to my mum about it and gave reasons why...

However, would you consider signing a waiver that would give the teachers of your children the "right" to discipline your children should they be doing wrong? I know i would!

[DarkLord]

I remember when I was working in the supermarket a few years ago and my cousin came in and was chatting to me as I was stacking the shelves. This woman was in my aisle and had 2 toddlers in her trolley both screaming at the top of their lungs for no reason whatsoever. This was LOUD, I mean my ears were ringing and all soft little mummy did was say gently "I don't want you screaming" and so of course they just did it louder.

By this point I was having to borderline shout to hear my cousin and eventually I just got to my limit, looked one of the kids dead in the eye and said, quietly but forcefully, "SHUT THE FUCK UP!!" My cousin burst out laughing, mummy turned around and looked at me (I was in my full New World uniform) and both kids immediately stopped screaming and she took off. I half expected she would go and complain about me but I never heard a thing.

I can't stand bloody softcock parents like that. Someone needs to teach brats like that a lesson and I'm glad that in this instance it was me.

[avgas]

Make a cold face.
Wave a finger very solidly and Yell at the child
"NO!"
Do it being overbearing and overpowering.

Can't beat them any-more - but can still traumatise them.

[YellowDog]

Used to get the slipper and cane at school.

Sometimes it was a laugh, somethimes it really did hurt.

Tried best to avoid getting it!
(can't think why?))

[mashman]

Tried best to avoid getting it!
(can't think why?))


'cause it wasn't kinky back in the 30's???

[CookMySock]

And we wonder why when they get to school they're already uncontrollable.The illusion of control is just a fantasy - a very dangerous one.

There is no "control". Perhaps people would like society to have "control" over them? I do not think so. If there was "control" then people could control you. You don't get it only one way - it's either both ways, or no ways.

The sooner people let go of the idea of "control", the better.

Steve

[ManDownUnder]

...the woman then butted in and told me to "stay out of it". (Which I know I should probably have done...

And that is where we disagree. Bloody good on you for speaking up. If no-one does, everyone thinking the same thing feels alone.

You're not - we're not. Speak up! People can disagree... that's their right. Silence is the problem

[mashman]

There is no "control".


Self-Control?

[neels]

We didn't smack our kids a lot, usually all they would get would be a flick across the ear with a finger, and after a while pointing at their ear was usually enough. When we take our kids out people comment on how well behaved they are.

Friends of ours have kids that are horrible whiny selfish brats, their parents put up with it but when my wife gets in their face when the parents aren't looking puts on her angry face and tells them to behave they do as they're told.

I guess they behave the way you let them.

[CookMySock]

Self-Control?What if point a gun at you and insist you get some self control? No?

Let it go. You can't control people.

Steve

[Stirts]

Can't beat them any-more - but can still traumatise them.

:laugh: Most definitely. As a kid all Dad had to do with us was give us the evil eye and we would very quickly pull our heads in!! Although that was only after learning the feeling of his hand and our bum cheek meeting with considerable velocity.

[R6_kid]

Does the anti-smacking bill extend to verbally threatening a child?

[crazyhorse]

I guess they behave the way you let them.

We are all creatures of learned behaviour - in everything we say and do. If allowed to swear, we will, if allowed to mistreat others, we do [hypothetically of course]

So, when we allow our children do things without proper teaching, they will do the things they have learned. Sad but true.

With no corporate punishment in schools anymore, even the teachers have no control. Fathers no longer attend school camps incase they are accused of touching someone.

This is the society we have ALLOWED to create.

[neels]

Fathers no longer attend school camps incase they are accused of touching someone.
I attended a school camp with a couple of other fathers, and you're correct about teachers having no control. When the kids wouldn't behave one of the dads would shout at them and it sorted them out, the teachers aren't allowed to do that to peoples little darlings but they didn't complain about us doing it.

[rainman]

Sigh.

The adults did not have to smack their child. But they absolutely did have to discipline her, to make is unambiguously clear to the kid that her behaviour was completely out of line, and would not be tolerated. This could be done via the path of smacking, or the path of not smacking. One is the lazy option, likely to work short-term, but have long-term issues. The other takes some parenting skill. Why am I not surprised to see people defending the lazy option?

Perhaps they are indeed smackers, anyway - where did the kid learn the trick from?

[mashman]

What if point a gun at you and insist you get some self control? No?

Let it go. You can't control people.

Steve

I was just highlighting that there is one person that can control you, you!

I never for one moment said anything about controlling other people, but was more alluding to giving my children the ability to understand what they're feeling and helping them understand the concept behind self-control, not just going out in the street and waving a gun in someone's face...

[Tank]

The illusion of control is just a fantasy - a very dangerous one.

There is no "control". Perhaps people would like society to have "control" over them? I do not think so. If there was "control" then people could control you. You don't get it only one way - it's either both ways, or no ways.

The sooner people let go of the idea of "control", the better.

Steve

of course there is control. We see it each and every day, and all of us to one extent or another are subject to it as well.

Easy example - there are many things one would like to do - but cannot do simply because there are laws controlling us.

You select to break the law - then they control you by making you go to court.

Annoy the judge enough and he controls you by sending you to jail.

Tell your cell mate you ride a HoBag, he controls you by making you one.

See.

[mashman]

With no corporate punishment in schools anymore

Corporate punishment is something we need these days, but i don't think it'll really work in schools :whistle:

[mashman]

of course there is control. We see it each and every day, and all of us to one extent or another are subject to it as well.

Easy example - there are many things one would like to do - but cannot do simply because there are laws controlling us.

You select to break the law - then they control you by making you go to court.

Annoy the judge enough and he controls you by sending you to jail.

Tell your cell mate you ride a HoBag, he controls you by making you one.

See.

Nooooooo, cause DB is totin a pistola hombre, and cahonez that size, noones gonna get control over him without a fight ;)

[crazyhorse]

I attended a school camp with a couple of other fathers, and you're correct about teachers having no control. When the kids wouldn't behave one of the dads would shout at them and it sorted them out, the teachers aren't allowed to do that to peoples little darlings but they didn't complain about us doing it.

My sister is a teacher, and the next crazy thing is this:

School reports - she is not allowed to put any negative comments about the child's learning or behaviour - stoopid! if ya ask me!

Parents are now getting a false report - telling them how wonderful their little snots are. Not saying, they need to do better with this or that.

YOu cannot live in a society that makes people feel good about themselves - it is not reality. We cannot all win the race, someone needs to come last!

Rant over :done:

[Tank]

Nooooooo, cause DB is totin a pistola hombre, and cahonez that size, noones gonna get control over him without a fight ;)

There is always some one bigger, stronger and who hasnt seen a woman in a long, long time.

[crazyhorse]

Corporate punishment is something we need these days, but i don't think it'll really work in schools :whistle:

True, but I think we need to stop wrapping kids up in cottonwool too - let them fall out of trees, skin their knees, and hurt themselves, brush themselves off and do it again. Too much "you can't do that" in todays world

[mashman]

My sister is a teacher, and the next crazy thing is this:

School reports - she is not allowed to put any negative comments about the child's learning or behaviour - stoopid! if ya ask me!

Parents are now getting a false report - telling them how wonderful their little snots are. Not saying, they need to do better with this or that.

YOu cannot live in a society that makes people feel good about themselves - it is not reality. We cannot all win the race, someone needs to come last!

Rant over :done:

That backs up the conversation I had with the teacher of my eldest... Essentially they're encouraging everyone to be the same, no winners, no losers, just dangly bits in different places etc... but with more of a focus on helping those at the loser end of the scale... Hardly surprising that suicides amongst kids these days are so high... dissapointment is all part of the growing process... if they don't know any better, how/where are they going to vent that dissapointment

[mashman]

True, but I think we need to stop wrapping kids up in cottonwool too - let them fall out of trees, skin their knees, and hurt themselves, brusht themselves off and do it again. Too much "you can't do that" in todays world

oh i whole heartedly agree, I can't understand those that don't get it... then again though, those that don't get it likely don't spend enough time with their kids!

It's one of the most ignorant laws i've ever seen in my entire life...

[mashman]

There is always some one bigger, stronger and who hasnt seen a woman in a long, long time.

:lol::lol::lol::lol: bigger, stronger and harder = :buggerd:

[MSTRS]

It's one of the most ignorant laws i've ever seen in my entire life...

But it's so well-meaning...won't someone think of the children, and their oh-so-easily damaged sense of self worth?
Tsk. Some people, eh?

[crazyhorse]

That backs up the conversation I had with the teacher of my eldest... Essentially they're encouraging everyone to be the same, no winners, no losers, just dangly bits in different places etc... but with more of a focus on helping those at the loser end of the scale... Hardly surprising that suicides amongst kids these days are so high... dissapointment is all part of the growing process... if they don't know any better, how/where are they going to vent that dissapointment

I totally agree - kids of today need to learn that things will not be handed to them, that the real world is different to what they think it is......

[MSTRS]

I totally agree - kids of today need to learn that things will not be handed to them, that the real world is different to what they think it is......

Eh, wrong. Kids have ALWAYS needed to learn that. But today, the house of cards they are forced to learn/live under is all they have. Unless their parents are 'good' ones. And until they are out of the school system.

[Fatjim]

This is what happens when you give women the vote and the right to be members of and leaders of parliament.

If they were in their place, quietly and submissively whispering words of encouragement and wisdom in their well fed and pampered husbands ears the world would be a better place.

[PrincessBandit]

Sigh.

The adults did not have to smack their child. But they absolutely did have to discipline her, to make is unambiguously clear to the kid that her behaviour was completely out of line, and would not be tolerated. ....
Perhaps they are indeed smackers, anyway - where did the kid learn the trick from?
I don't think the answer was "they had to smack her", but the short sharp smack on the bum or legs when we were kids meant that as we got older we only needed "the look" from mum to know what would come if we didn't pull our heads in....
As for were did the kid learn the trick from? - it's human nature to lash out physically when we don't get our own way, or from frustration from other sources. The trick is to learn that sometimes we can't have our own way and get over it.


I was just highlighting that there is one person that can control you, you!

Yes, self-control seems to be a virtue not given much credence in this day and age of the almighty ME.


My sister is a teacher, and the next crazy thing is this:

School reports - she is not allowed to put any negative comments about the child's learning or behaviour - stoopid! if ya ask me!

Parents are now getting a false report - telling them how wonderful their little snots are. Not saying, they need to do better with this or that.

YOu cannot live in a society that makes people feel good about themselves - it is not reality. We cannot all win the race, someone needs to come last!

Rant over :done:
Absolutely - it was even like that when I was writing reports back in the late 80's. You had to hope like crazy that parents were smart enough to read between the lines. A hope in vain for many, I suspect.


Nooooooo, cause DB is totin a pistola hombre, and cahonez that size, noones gonna get control over him without a fight ;)
Don't think DB was thinking of the size of his cajones when he wrote that.......


I totally agree - kids of today need to learn that things will not be handed to them, that the real world is different to what they think it is......

If only they would, and parents would teach them!!!

[mashman]

But it's so well-meaning...won't someone think of the children, and their oh-so-easily damaged sense of self worth?
Tsk. Some people, eh?

I know.... stupid soft bastards

My wife doesn't smack the kids... it's a bone of contention in the house shall we say... when she lets rip, i'm surprised that when i look at the kids their ears aren't bleeding... plus that noise seriously grates on my fuckin nerves, can't be doing her blood pressure any good (as it's usually be pushing mine right up there...) and to be honest they more often than not go back to doing it again...

If the yelling approach if it isn't working... what's left?

[MSTRS]

Tranquiliser darts?

[Karl08]

We will always get the behavior we tolerate, as parents and as a society.

This current generation of children will soon grow up, and we will have self absorbed, narcissistic, selfish adults who have no thought for how their actions affect others.

Don't we believe in the adage "maintenance is cheaper than repair"?

Most times at our local Warehouse I feel like "maintaining" half the damn toy isle.

[mashman]

Tranquiliser darts?

:lol::lol::lol::lol: That or rigging up their chair to the school mains... Level 1 for first offence, level 2 for 2nd etc... Honestly, if it worked i'd be all for it... sign me up...

[StoneY]

I had some assholes kid in a restaraunt help himself to hot chips off my dinner plate
You all know the kid, snot nosed, dirty, barrefoot (while mum and dad sit in designer labels and 300$ reeboks) running round, screaming, yelling, throwing salad on the floor....

Theft of my chips was the final straw
Told his 'Dad' to deal with his kid or I would deal with him, and I wasnt talking about paying his fuckin bill either

The couple looked at me horrified, promptly went to complain to the manager, who bless his socks, BACKED ME UP and asked them to pay up and leave, and not to stop for desert
The couple started huffing on about thier rights, and the manager pointed out 'your child just commited and act of theft by consumption, pay that mans bill as well or be detained to talk to the police'

Wicked!
Need more peole like him round....mind you would have been better if he had stepped up before the useless bastsrds complained about my 'threats'

Bring the cane back at primary school I say, they learn at that age, as PB says, the 'look' was enough once you knew it meant bizzo

[Genie]

I'm a really bad Mother....like really bad. I will smack my children, after telling them not to behave a certain way - three times i will repeat - then the slap on the leg comes out. sometimes i don't have to repeat at all as they know i mean business! what i think is worse than the 'smack' is the 'yelling' i hate it when i start to yell and there's nothing worse than a mother (or anyone) doing their nut!!! Personally think it's so ugly and causes more trauma on the darlings than the controlled slap on the leg, plus they stop listening and my voice just becomes a drone in their ears. Whereas, the smack, instant change in behaviour. Just need someone to smack me when i misbehave:innocent:

[MSTRS]

Just need someone to smack me when i misbehave:innocent:

Take a number. I'll...I mean ...the Doctor will be with you shortly.

[EJK]

Let it go. You can't control people.

Steve

Yes you can. It's called "respect".

[mashman]

Eh, wrong. Kids have ALWAYS needed to learn that. But today, the house of cards they are forced to learn/live under is all they have. Unless their parents are 'good' ones. And until they are out of the school system.

House of cards eh!!! that nudey ones??? Kids don't receive an education these days... they aren't taught how to find out for themselves... they just split homework down to easily manageable chunks and then massage/tag the marks on to the end of year exams... WTF kind of system would do that. The whole idea of end of year exams is to prove that you have remembered what you've learned and understood what's been taught...

they learn, regurgitate and watch TV... aaaaaaaand repeat until out of school system...

[Genie]

Yes you can. It's called "respect".

control - respect - not in the same category at all.

[crazyhorse]

..... 'yelling' i hate it when i start to yell and there's nothing worse than a mother (or anyone) doing their nut!!! :innocent:

I'd back you on this one. Shame my 17 year old is too big to smack - I hate yelling too, and am doing it more now than I ever had too.:eek5:

Don't ever think of yourself as being a bad parent - you are giving them options first, by the three times rule. I did that too....

[Pussy]

I'm all for the little shits "expressing themselves".

Just as long as they don't mind ME expressing MYSELF with a size 9.5 right up their ringpieces....

[Genie]

I'd back you on this one. Shame my 17 year old is too big to smack - I hate yelling too, and am doing it more now than I ever had too.:eek5:

Don't ever think of yourself as being a bad parent - you are giving them options first, by the three times rule. I did that too....

I'm working very hard at being the world's meanest mum!!! I don't feel bad at all though some in society would say i am as i do smack. I run a very tight ship (call me captain...no Hilter). I have to, 4 young children can go crazy really fast. My eldest is 23 and i still give him a run for his money....I am she who shall be obeyed!:bash:

[mashman]

Someone call for a Doctor? :woohoo:

[MSTRS]

Getting a bit OT here, but just wanted to add that no matter what/how they are taught/tested...the end result of the do-gooders' policies are that kids learn there are no real consequences. Until life smacks them between the eyes.
Discipline your kids, for their own good. They will learn to discipline themselves, so you don't have to. That is part of one's job as a parent. The OP story shows what happens when you neglect this part of child raising.

[mashman]

I'd back you on this one. Shame my 17 year old is too big to smack - I hate yelling too, and am doing it more now than I ever had too.:eek5:

ha ha ha, never to big too punish though... Male or Female child?

[Dave Lobster]

If the yelling approach if it isn't working... what's left?

Adoption...

[buffstar]

I'm a really bad Mother....like really bad. I will smack my children, after telling them not to behave a certain way - three times i will repeat - then the slap on the leg comes out. sometimes i don't have to repeat at all as they know i mean business! what i think is worse than the 'smack' is the 'yelling' i hate it when i start to yell and there's nothing worse than a mother (or anyone) doing their nut!!! Personally think it's so ugly and causes more trauma on the darlings than the controlled slap on the leg, plus they stop listening and my voice just becomes a drone in their ears. Whereas, the smack, instant change in behaviour. Just need someone to smack me when i misbehave:innocent:


+1
I use the count to three method - tell em what they are doing needs to stop (firmly) and then count to three...... you havnt sorted your shit by the time I get to three - I smack your arse. I make no apology for it & although the 3 year old is still a work in progress the 12yr old hasnt been smacked for years - because she was well trained at a young age and knows that if she chooses to do something 'wrong' there WILL be consequences,:crybaby: smacking is not the only option I also use time out quite effectively, and am not embarrased to put my child on time out anywhere we may be - and if ppl have a problem with that they can kiss my butt (only my hubby may smack it)
Some of the BS i see other kids pulling on their parents disgusts me - useless pansy pricks, the big bad world is gunna chew those little buggers up and spit em out and mummy-wummy aint gunna be able to save their arse!! FFS

[CookMySock]

With no corporate punishment in schools anymore, even the teachers have no control.Good. Perhaps they will give up on the idea of bullying and harrassing kids, so they dont interfere with their own feelings.


Fathers no longer attend school camps incase they are accused of touching someone.Rubbish. My daughters' friends treat me like another Dad, and I treat them like another daughter. I go on my daughters' school camps without fail - haven't missed one yet! Got another one this weekend - going on our bikes too! :niceone:


kids learn there are no real consequences. Until life smacks them between the eyes.Thats the way it should be. It's not your business to "teach people a lesson."

"Lifes' little lessons" is plenty in itself.

Steve

[FJRider]

I would have voiced my disgust too.

Simple answer:

The parents should be held accountable; charged with assulting a staff member and also creating a public disturbance.



What he said ...

[RantyDave]

School reports - she is not allowed to put any negative comments about the child's learning or behaviour
Oh, that whole thing sucks doesn't it. To make things worse it means you can no longer trust a glowing report - you have to kinda wheedle out of the teachers what's actually going on. Such a pain in the arse.

Dave

[CookMySock]

We will always get the behavior we tolerate, as parents and as a society. If you think like that, all you are ever going to teach is intolerance.

The problem is "control", and what we believe our rights extend to with regard that.

Who, at any time, has the right to impose THEIR idea of "control" upon YOU?

No one does? Good! So why teach children that THEY can when they grow up?

When you use coercion to force children to DO something, you reinforce the idea that "normal adults may use coercion as a valid tool", when the real truth is, this is never going to be acceptable.

Furthermore, 90% of the time, adults use coercion simply for the reason, that the other person is interfering with their feelings. The message sent is, "my feelings are paramount, and your feelings are irrelevant."

Think about it. You can't force anyone to do anything. Get over it.

Steve

[2wheeldrifter]

In at the local city council offices today I witnessed 2 toddlers helping themselves to pamphlets and running around with them. When one of the staff members tried nicely to get them back the youngest threw a screaming hissy and held them behind her back (all of about 2 years old). The (older) woman reached around saying something like "how about I take these and you can have this one" and the little missy open hand smacked the woman across the face. All of this with 2 adults who were with them doing nothing.

The elderly man with them mumbled something about "sorry" but not another word was said. As they walked past me apparently happy as larry I said "I'd have been disgusted if either of my children had just done that". Well, I got a rant over how it was all the government's fault and how they'd end up in the shit it they dealt with the kid; the woman then butted in and told me to "stay out of it". (Which I know I should probably have done, but it incensed me that the little brat could just do that and neither the mother or grandfather - which is what the adults appeared to be to these girls- did a thing).

Apparently they'd be in there for some time before I went in, being general little pains in the arse completely unchecked. Then to top it off with slapping a staff member across the face! The reaction on all the other people in the building was shocked, but not one person said a thing. Except me cos I just couldn't help myself. Aaaaarrrrrggggghh! And we wonder why when they get to school they're already uncontrollable. Hmmmm. Go figure.

Rant over!


Good on you.... worthless shits if you ask me, the parents that is for allowing that!

I would of given the kid a scare too :crybaby:

[EgliHonda]

Most times at our local Warehouse I feel like "maintaining" half the damn toy isle.

Oh I hear that... Some parents think shops are free babysitting services, while their little 'darlings' tear around breaking toys and rupturing eardrums. Unfortunately the Whorehouse suffers the brunt of this form of trash...

[EgliHonda]

Theft of my chips was the final straw

Too right. Taking hot chips off a man's plate uninvited should be a capital offense... :bash:

Think I would have snapped too, well done that manager though, didn't expect to hear him enforcing standards like that...

[Tink]

In at the local city council offices today I witnessed 2 toddlers helping themselves to pamphlets and running around with them. When one of the staff members tried nicely to get them back the youngest threw a screaming hissy and held them behind her back (all of about 2 years old). The (older) woman reached around saying something like "how about I take these and you can have this one" and the little missy open hand smacked the woman across the face. All of this with 2 adults who were with them doing nothing.

The elderly man with them mumbled something about "sorry" but not another word was said. As they walked past me apparently happy as larry I said "I'd have been disgusted if either of my children had just done that". Well, I got a rant over how it was all the government's fault and how they'd end up in the shit it they dealt with the kid; the woman then butted in and told me to "stay out of it". (Which I know I should probably have done, but it incensed me that the little brat could just do that and neither the mother or grandfather - which is what the adults appeared to be to these girls- did a thing).

Apparently they'd be in there for some time before I went in, being general little pains in the arse completely unchecked. Then to top it off with slapping a staff member across the face! The reaction on all the other people in the building was shocked, but not one person said a thing. Except me cos I just couldn't help myself. Aaaaarrrrrggggghh! And we wonder why when they get to school they're already uncontrollable. Hmmmm. Go figure.

Rant over!

I would have backed you up there PB... ! Thats just intolerable behaviour, and taking that child aside screaming is better than letting her get away with what she/he did.

[ghost]

I would have voiced my disgust too.

Simple answer:

The parents should be held accountable; charged with assulting a staff member and also creating a public disturbance.

I suspect that their next visit would have been more peaceful.

So the Parents, who are not allowed to disipline their two year old in the old fashioned manner, that actually gets the attention of a two year old, are to be held legally accountable for the actions of the said two year old? (that they arent allowed to dicipline) ( did I mention that all ready)

or maybe they should have "reasoned with them"....

Mmm..

Who would have thought it would have come to this....

[Genie]

Oh I hear that... Some parents think shops are free babysitting services, while their little 'darlings' tear around breaking toys and rupturing eardrums. Unfortunately the Whorehouse suffers the brunt of this form of trash...

second that....my children range from 5 up to 9 and i'm only now just beginning to let them look at stuff by themselves. have seen ones as young as 1 left while their mothers cruise clothing racks!!!!

Personal responsiblity should be taught to all while they are young!

[Fatjim]

If you think like that, all you are ever going to teach is intolerance.

The problem is "control", and what we believe our rights extend to with regard that.

Who, at any time, has the right to impose THEIR idea of "control" upon YOU?

No one does? Good! So why teach children that THEY can when they grow up?

When you use coercion to force children to DO something, you reinforce the idea that "normal adults may use coercion as a valid tool", when the real truth is, this is never going to be acceptable.

Furthermore, 90% of the time, adults use coercion simply for the reason, that the other person is interfering with their feelings. The message sent is, "my feelings are paramount, and your feelings are irrelevant."

Think about it. You can't force anyone to do anything. Get over it.

Steve

What crack have you been smoking?

[Dave Lobster]

Personal responsiblity should be taught to all while they are young!

Isn't personal responsibility illegal now?

(ACC...)

[The Pastor]

Im not the best at it, but my sister can growl a kid till they cry.

no need to smack them if you know how to handle kids.

tho once they get a bit older they get the i dont care attitude, thats when you need to lay the beat down.

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/print/2008/4/RSPCA-boy.jpg

[EJK]

control - respect - not in the same category at all.

If you gain people's respect, will they not follow you? Authority is control, ain't it?

[wbks]

If you gain people's respect, will they not follow you? Authority is control, ain't it?Listen to HIM!

[ManDownUnder]

Listen to HIM!

xh_9QhRzJEs

[ManDownUnder]

If you gain people's respect, will they not follow you?
Not in my book.

Respect your enemy is agood rule to live by - that don't mean change sides and join them

[MSTRS]

What crack have you been smoking?

I think it's something they put in the ice cream...

[jimmy 2006]

I know quite a few parents that do smack their children - and I say "good for them"

Didn't do me any harm, and neither did my kids any harm. At least they learnt right from wrong and also learnt to respect people and things.

Good on ya PrincessBandit :niceone:


God that is backwards. thinking like this is why this country is going to the dogs.
the only way to stop child abuse is to break the cycle. as parents we have to be mature enough to not need to resort to violence when it comes to discipline.

In this situation it would have been easy to make the parents accountable for the kids actions instead of stepping in to try and deal with the kids yourself.
as has been said earlier. Discipline the parents telling them that this is unacceptable and you must leave the store now.

[jimmy 2006]

So the Parents, who are not allowed to disipline their two year old in the old fashioned manner, that actually gets the attention of a two year old, are to be held legally accountable for the actions of the said two year old? (that they arent allowed to dicipline) ( did I mention that all ready)

or maybe they should have "reasoned with them"....

Mmm..

Who would have thought it would have come to this....


yea, they should have had the crap beaten out of them until they couldn't talk, cry or walk anymore.......... that would solve it ah?

[devnull]

God that is backwards. thinking like this is why this country is going to the dogs.
the only way to stop child abuse is to break the cycle. as parents we have to be mature enough to not need to resort to violence when it comes to discipline.

In this situation it would have been easy to make the parents accountable for the kids actions instead of stepping in to try and deal with the kids yourself.
as has been said earlier. Discipline the parents telling them that this is unacceptable and you must leave the store now.

And with that the feeble minded kaftan wearers emerge... :clap:

I'm a parent.
I have very well behaved children.

They know that rules are enforced.
A smack may be the punishment.

It is MY responsibility to teach them acceptable behaviour, and enforce it. When they become adults, if they haven't learned acceptable behaviour by then, the police will enforce it.

The anti-smacking religion is a social engineering experiment that has failed overseas and is devoid of factual research.

It did achieve 1 thing - a nearly 700% increase in youth crime in Sweden...

[jimmy 2006]

incorrect. if you want to quote facts at least get them right

the increase in child abuse stats in sweden was directly related to actually monitoring the cases of child abuse instead of the Nz mentality of sweeping it under the carpet.

it is your right as a parent to discipline your children and i a have no right to tell you how to do that.

what is not ok is assuming that your children do not have the right to choose not to be hit. AND when they are too young to not be able to understand right and wrong that is where the Govt has to jump in with legislation.

by hitting your kids you are teaching them a way of dealing with tough situations that is not socially acceptable. imagine one day they own their own business and their employee's play up, they loose control in the same way their parents did and hit their employee.
Is this an ok way for them to act? No. so how is it different if it is your kids instead of your employee?

[devnull]

incorrect. if you want to quote facts at least get them right

the increase in child abuse stats in sweden was directly related to actually monitoring the cases of child abuse instead of the Nz mentality of sweeping it under the carpet.

it is your right as a parent to discipline your children and i a have no right to tell you how to do that.

what is not ok is assuming that your children do not have the right to choose not to be hit. AND when they are too young to not be able to understand right and wrong that is where the Govt has to jump in with legislation.

by hitting your kids you are teaching them a way of dealing with tough situations that is not socially acceptable. imagine one day they own their own business and their employee's play up, they loose control in the same way their parents did and hit their employee.
Is this an ok way for them to act? No. so how is it different if it is your kids instead of your employee?

Oh dear... the slippery slope myth too :clap:

To educate you, since that seems to have been missed somewhere along the line...

Sweden changed their laws in 1979, to commemorate the Year of the Child. The "increase" was NOT due to "monitoring", it was violent youth crime dealt with by the courts (Beckett, British Journal of Social Work)

If you want to shoot your mouth off, at least make an attempt to learn a bit about the topic first.

Now onto the "slippery slope" myth i.e. that kids learn violent behaviour from being smacked.

That's just as accurate as saying that drinking coffee leads to heroin addiction.

Of course, this myth was soundly routed when Otago Uni published their research on the long term effects of physical discipline in 2006.

Another nail in the anti-smacking, tofu munching, kaftan wearing coffin :banana:


As for the govt thinking they have the right to dictate that my children are the property of the state... think again.
Like most parents, I'll take ANY action I deem appropriate to protect my kids from those zealots, who are pretty much fucked in the head (Bradford being a prime example of using children to manipulate people)

I'm sure that some of the cops here will be able to tell you that violent teens and adults respond well to hugs and kisses when being calmed down at incidents.... Personally, I've always found a 5-cell Maglite equally effective when dealing with drunk and obnoxious people... (never thump the ambo) Of course, personal responsibility is no longer a requirement, according to the left-wing bootlickers.... And the crime stats reflect that attitude :girlfight:

[devnull]

BTW, when I say "violent crime", I'm referring to youth vs youth - mainly serious assaults and rape.

See http://www.bra.se for Swedish crime statistics

[Beemer]

I was at the Whitakers meeting at Manfeild a few weeks ago and there were these two boys aged about 8-10 who kept jumping on the plastic seats in the stands and climbing over them. In the end I turned around and said "how about you two sit down and stop being annoying?"

The climbed over the seats and one of the ugly little freckle-faced shits leaned over the back of the seat and glared at me. I was really pissed off by now, so I hissed "do NOT start with me, you will not win".

Both clambered down and told their mother, who ignored them, so they turned to daddy, who turned around to look for the big bad woman who had dared to pick on his babies! You know the sort - cropped blonde hair, no neck - so I just glared at him too! The kids were obviously traumatised by my actions and had to lie across mummy and daddy and be cuddled. Aww, diddums!

I can't stand badly behaved kids and tend to say something now rather than stew in silence!

[Beemer]

True, but I think we need to stop wrapping kids up in cottonwool too - let them fall out of trees, skin their knees, and hurt themselves, brush themselves off and do it again. Too much "you can't do that" in todays world

Agreed! I interviewed the retiring principal of a local country school last week and I loved his final comment: "long may the kids of Koputaroa School play bull rush and climb trees!"

[Tink]

do they have a lot to answer for... I like that climbing trees, and bull rush... forget OSH, lets have some real playgrounds back in the schools... flying foxes when I was 5... sigh the good old days when kids respected their teachers and parents.

I remember gettting the strap at 12 on my hands... boy it hurt, and I never did it again... IT WAS NOT THAT BAD what I did BTW lol

I deal with my naughty kids at school with the 3 method... and removing the good things they enjoy.

Consistancy in verbal & removal is far better than saying "its ok to hit".

[mashman]

Consistancy in verbal & removal is far better than saying "its ok to hit".

Agreed, but that doesn't work in all cases and by the time they get to school it can be 3 years too late.

[Tink]

Agreed, but that doesn't work in all cases and by the time they get to school it can be 3 years too late.

I understand what you mean "not in all cases" but I do believe that "its never too late"... hoping one day something will click in that child ...

There is nothing in this world that says one is always right
There is nothing in this world that says one has the right answer
There is nothing in this world that makes ones behaviour ok.
Never feel your not good enough... etc etc etc.

Lack of education a big factor... but sure it would be boring if we were all the same... maybe healthy if we were a more tolerant of one another.... and forgiving!

It saddens me... when I see negativity... but rocks my socks when people say... heh have a great day, and they smile...

[MSTRS]

...they loose control in the same way their parents did ....

BULLSHIT!!!
A smack on the arse of a naughty kid is NOT losing control. It is (re)exerting your control over their behaviour, when they won't do it for themselves.
Losing control is beating them with fists, feet, implements...and that deserves the full retaliation of the law.
The two scenarios could not be further apart.
People like you that attempt to equate the two as being the same, need a smack to open your tiny minds...

[jimmy 2006]

thanks, case and point right there.

you havn't learnt to communicate properly so now you want to smack me. If you did, i would make sure you got done for assault.

see, smacking is not the answer. :msn-wink:

[mashman]

Ever seen a parent shouting at their kid? they're generally barking orders, don't do that, stop that, get back here, do as i tell you!!!! That to me is losing control... it never seems to be backed up with a quiet conversation, it's almost as though the child is inconveniencing the adult for being, well, childish! Ludicrous!!!!

[MSTRS]

you havn't learnt to communicate properly so now you want to smack me.

Communication includes the written word, and the writer assumes (doh!) that the reader possesses sufficient intelligence to understand the meaning intended.
I see you don't measure up to my assumption. I said 'you needs' - not 'I wants'...
:no::laugh:

[Genie]

i can see this getting a little out of hand....smack ourselves on the head and wake up. :slap:
a smack on the leg ...is a smack!!! a bash is something entirely different. beating a child is not a smack. a smack is a controlled physical form of discipline. yelling and screaming at your child is another form of abuse.

got an hysterical women...slap her out of it - it works. got an out of control child.....try reasoning with them...hello!!! it's not going to happen this is a child, they stop listening after 4 words...(bit like men) a quick slap and they snap out of it.
I read the other day some woman down south got jailed for beating her children, jug cords etc. shit, when i grew up that was common place, not a good thing and glad to see it is punishable by the courts and there is justice for the children. But come on, wake up, a smack is not abuse.

Now smile and have a happy day. Spread the love not the anger.

:laugh:

[MSTRS]

i can see this * getting a little out of hand....smack ourselves on the head and wake up. :slap:
a smack on the leg ...is a smack!!! a bash is something entirely different. beating a child is not a smack. a smack is a controlled physical form of discipline. yelling and screaming at your child is another form of abuse.

got an hysterical women...slap her out of it - it works. got an out of control child.....try reasoning with them...hello!!! it's not going to happen this is a child, they stop listening after 4 words...(bit like men) a quick slap and they snap out of it.
I read the other day some woman down south got jailed for beating her children, jug cords etc. shit, when i grew up that was common place, not a good thing and glad to see it is punishable by the courts and there is justice for the children. But come on, wake up, a smack is not abuse.

Now smile and have a happy day. Spread the love not the anger.

:laugh:

You lost me about here....

[Genie]

You lost me about here....

lost me too...but i've been lost for years. to many smacks on the head

[Karl08]

The trouble is the "non smackers" take the moral high ground and point the finger at Parents who choose to smack

The "smackers" get defensive and assume all non smacked kids can behave.

Yet in the midst of all this, the people who abuse their kids just keep on doing it.

We could all tell stories about getting the strap/cane at school (i did- didn't work), yet kids are still suffering at the hands of people who have the parenting skills of a lemon.

So, imagine if all the people represented here decided to look around their streets and see if there is a family who could use "a new friend". Not to preach, or point the finger; but to simply model how to raise kids well. As we are all trying to do.

Feel free to mock, but I got to say that after almost 20 years working in this area I have realized that kiwis love to moan and gripe- yet very few want to be part of the solution. No courses, no social workers, just good kiwi blokes and blokettes.

[Dave Lobster]

So, imagine if all the people represented here decided to look around their streets and see if there is a family who could use "a new friend". Not to preach, or point the finger; but to simply model how to raise kids well. As we are all trying to do.


Unfortunately, all too often these days, people don't want 'help'. They see it as interference, and that other people should mind their own business.

The ones most in need of help are the ones least likely to know it.

[Karl08]

Sad, but true.

[mashman]

Sad, but true.

Even still, it doesn't take much just to say hi to your neighbour. I've known all of my neighbours, from old people (Willy and Betty, hip replacement age), to the really, and i mean really freaky woman next door (Anne)!!!!, to the guy who has a covered car in his yard (said hi plenty, just never really spoke), to the guy he watched me almost fall off the roof of the house whilst fluing it (i nearly shat my pants, top man Derek) then sorted my electricity and on... Not a constant "hi, come for dinner, we must be mates thing", just a mutual respect and interest for another human being... sometimes you become friends, sometimes you don't.

It pays to know your neighbours.

[scissorhands]

I have Japanese girls next door

[mashman]

I have Japanese girls next door

Then goddammit man go and meet the neighbours!

[EgliHonda]

Yes, say "nice chichi" and "show us your omanko" as an opening gambit...

Pleased to help...

[jimmy 2006]

problem is that there is no support for struggling parents. some people have it bloody tough.

for example

both parents are working..........struggling to pay the bills........can hardly afford to put food on the table........they get home buggered........tired......with nothing left in the tank to be able to control themselves.....little johhny smashes a window by accident or otherwise......parents loose control and smack johnny.

what i'm saying is that it there is a huge amount of stress on parents as it is and it is understandable that some can't cope and end up smacking their kids.

what i don't get are the parents that are hitting their kids whilst they are relaxed and in control. Somehow they seem to think it's ok?

[PrincessBandit]

......parents loose control and smack johnny.

what i'm saying is that it there is a huge amount of stress on parents as it is and it is understandable that some can't cope and end up smacking their kids.

what i don't get are the parents that are hitting their kids whilst they are relaxed and in control. Somehow they seem to think it's ok?

Thats the thing right there isn't it? Parents lose control and that's where child beating comes in. The whole reason behind being self controlled and level headed when giving a disciplinary "smack" on the bottom or legs is so your child doesn't end up having the living daylights beaten out of them.

I found that after using smacking while my children were very little (and Yes, I do have to admit it wasn't always in a state of calm - still didn't add up to beating my little ones however) as they got older it didn't need to be used any more. While they were young they quickly learnt that the short sharp sting of a hand on their chubbly behind or leg wasn't pleasant so if they thought their actions were likely to result in one they didn't commit planned offence. Even them theatening a prize tanty in the supermarket would be met with the knowledge a smack would ensue, and hence it only ever happened once.

You might not agree with the many of us here who admit we got hidings as kids and it didn't do us any harm, but you are entitled to your opinion just as we are.

As many have said there is a HUGE gulf between the short sharp smack followed by a loving cuddle and explanation, and a child being beaten.

[jimmy 2006]

i talk from a childhood of beatings, so struggle to differentiate a smack from a hiding with a ladel.

watching your siblings getting the shit beaten out of them is enough to either put people completely off the idea. or agree with it.

i for one are going to break the abuse cycle. and therefore do not hit my kids.

nothing beats lying down and throwing a tantrum next to your 2 your old who is also throwing a tantrum in the shops. they only ever try it once, they end up grabbing at you telling you to stop because they are so embarrased with everyone looking at them.

[neels]

I was sitting in a school prizegiving the other day where a mother had brought her little darling along. She had bought everything necessary to appease her little darling, bits of food in crinkly plastic bags, annoying noisy toys etc. When the child was bored of these and started running around bothering other people she sat staring straight ahead as if oblivious to the fact that her kid was annoying the crap out of everybody around her.

In fairness the kid probably didn't know any different, perhaps I should have given the mother a slap and told to sort their kid out?

[Pussy]

In fairness the kid probably didn't know any different, perhaps I should have given the mother a slap and told to sort their kid out?

Sounds fair to me....

[devnull]

i talk from a childhood of beatings, so struggle to differentiate a smack from a hiding with a ladel.

watching your siblings getting the shit beaten out of them is enough to either put people completely off the idea. or agree with it.

i for one are going to break the abuse cycle. and therefore do not hit my kids.

nothing beats lying down and throwing a tantrum next to your 2 your old who is also throwing a tantrum in the shops. they only ever try it once, they end up grabbing at you telling you to stop because they are so embarrased with everyone looking at them.

2 year olds don't get embarrassed by their parents - it's a game. :laugh:

IF you ever have kids, try it. You obviously have never parented a toddler.

[The Pastor]

I often find, to shut kids up you have yo use your two best assets, understanding and reason.

Meet understanding, i'll show you reason later.

http://sportsebooks.com/content_images/1/Bodybuilder.jpg

[StoneY]

nothing beats lying down and throwing a tantrum next to your 2 your old who is also throwing a tantrum in the shops. they only ever try it once, they end up grabbing at you telling you to stop because they are so embarrased with everyone looking at them.

Ive never met a 2 year old who knows what the word embarrased means let alone used it in conversation

I applaud the reason you claim to use this method, but relaying the popular TV ad like its your 'true story' damages the credibility

If this story was with a 4 or 5 year old.....I might have swallowed it

[MSTRS]

Ive never met a 2 year old who knows what the word embarrased means let alone used it in conversation

I applaud the reason you claim to use this method, but relaying the popular TV ad like its your 'true story' damages the credibility

If this story was with a 4 or 5 year old.....I might have swallowed it

Ditto.

A 2yo embarassed? Don't make me laugh.