Official response from Ulysses Club President

[StoneY]

The Ulysses Club categorically denies that it has entered into any agreement with ACC or Minister Smith over ACC levies and road safety programmes as apparently suggested by Dr Smith recently. We are absolutely against the outrageous levy rises still being put forward by ACC and are committed to working with other clubs and organisations to fight their implementation.

As Ulysses National President I am disappointed that many bikers have appeared to take Dr Smith’s comments at face value. Ulysses has been at the forefront of the ACC protests. I have been very vocal in my condemnation of the proposed changes to ACC – not only the motorcycling issues but the other changes that impact on us all as New Zealanders: car levy up 36%, diesel goods vehicles levy up 94%, increases in petrol, employee, employer and self employed levies plus cuts in services.

The first mass rally in Nelson was widely supported by the local Ulysses branches and other clubs. I was invited to take part and did so in my role as National President. Ulysses organised the mass rallies held across the country on the following two weekends – thousands of bikers demonstrated in Wellington, Auckland, Hamilton, Christchurch, Timaru, Tauranga and other towns. Then the Bikoi – once the message of maximum safety and minimum disruption was implemented, the Ulysses Club took an active part in supporting the ride as did many of our members. I was out of the country at the time of the Bikoi and was unable to attend.

The work that Ulysses has done and still does with the Injury Prevention arm of ACC will continue and is separate from the levy issue. This work has input from other motorcycle clubs and interest groups and continues to benefit all motorcyclists.

It is clear that the fight against the levy increases is not over – that was very evident in ACC’s complete disregard for the hundreds of submissions that had been made. The revised proposed levies are completely unacceptable as they are only marginally less than the originals. We need to stand together not only as motorcyclists but as citizens of this country. The government has a clear agenda to attack the very fabric of ACC – an institution that is world renown no fault compensation scheme. We need to push for a full scale review if ACC with a view to returning it to its original purpose. ACC management and the government have done a great job of hiding the massive changes planned for ACC behind the furore around the motorcycle levies. We need to engage public support for the wider purpose while ensuring that our interests are protected.

Peter McIntosh,
National President,
Ulysses Club of New Zealand Inc


Edit from Peter Mac

"I have been in contact with Dr Smith today both by email and by phone regarding his statements. I am satisfied that he was misquoted either intentionally or by accident. He did not state nor suggest at any time that a deal had been struck with Ulysses.


As far as I am concerned the matter is resolved.

Peter McIntosh,
National President,
Ulysses Club of NZ Inc"

[Mom]

So once again, Nicks Myth lied. Gee he told a few good porkies last night for sure. Tsk, tsk Minister, you want us to believe you have everyones interest at heart then lie through your teeth on camera no less. What a plonker!

[Mom]

Actually I feel a media heads up is required over this. It is not enough that he is exposed on here methinks.

[StoneY]

Ulysses club and especially Peter Mac

I humbly appologise for my comments in the thread this reply relates to

I am (in hindsight) quite ashamed of some of the inflamotory dribble in that thread

We at KB are experts in 'trolling' we should have seen Nicks bullshit for what it was

Mostly, I appologise for not going straight to the source to verify or counter Nick Smiths statement

Sorry Ulysses

Ulysses have taken a very active and mature role on this campaign from day one
Its time we all put personal agenda's aside and fought together

Thank you for the statement Peter

EDIT:

Peter has been on phone to Nick Smith
Smith claims it 'was never said'

Here is the take from Peter Mac

Hi Brent,

can you please post te following for me:

"I have been in contact with Dr Smith today both by email and by phone regarding his statements. I am satisfied that he was misquoted either intentionally or by accident. He did not state nor suggest at any time that a deal had been struck with Ulysses.

As far as I am concerned the matter is resolved.

Peter McIntosh,
National President,
Ulysses Club of NZ Inc"

[Katman]

Actually I feel a media heads up is required over this. It is not enough that he is exposed on here methinks.

I'd suggest that Peter McIntosh, himself, should go to the media to publicly call Nick Smith out over this, rather than simply posting a statement on here.

[Dan Mapp]

So once again, Nicks Myth lied. Gee he told a few good porkies last night for sure. Tsk, tsk Minister, you want us to believe you have everyones interest at heart then lie through your teeth on camera no less. What a plonker!

What did he say?

[gwigs]

I'd suggest that Peter McIntosh, himself, should go to the media to publicly call Nick Smith out over this, rather than simply posting a statement on here.

good suggestion Katman.

[StoneY]

I'd suggest that Peter McIntosh, himself, should go to the media to publicly call Nick Smith out over this, rather than simply posting a statement on here.

Dont worry man, Peter is no ones fool and I am sure he will be defending ulysses good name with appropriate vigour

Trust me when I say he has more lines to the media than many

JD if you want to write something in KR I can get him in touch

[ManDownUnder]

I'd suggest that Peter McIntosh, himself, should go to the media to publicly call Nick Smith out over this, rather than simply posting a statement on here.

ooooooo this hurts... but I agree with Katman.

I don't knwo what KB can do to assist but I'm happy to put some money toward an airfare for Peter to fly down and see the Minister if that's what it takes to get some media coverage on this ASAP.

[caseye]

I'd suggest that Peter McIntosh, himself, should go to the media to publicly call Nick Smith out over this, rather than simply posting a statement on here.

What kat said! x TWO! Has to come form Peter, can't be refuted by the Mythster then!

[Katman]

ooooooo this hurts... but I agree with Katman.

I don't knwo what KB can do to assist but I'm happy to put some money toward an airfare for Peter to fly down and see the Minister if that's what it takes to get some media coverage on this ASAP.

Get the pair of them together on Close Up.

[FastBikeGear]

I think this highlights the need for us to take our own video recorders to protests.

I recorded some of what Nick said last night on my cell phone but unfortunately I was only had enough memory to record some of it...and the quality was pretty bad.

[ManDownUnder]

Get the pair of them together on Close Up.

Works for me.

What's price to pay for the good Dr should he be caught lying... and how do we maximise it??

[STJim]

Ulysses club and especially Peter Mac

I humbly appologise for my comments in the thread this reply relates to

I am (in hindsight) quite ashamed of some of the inflamotory dribble in that thread

We at KB are experts in 'trolling' we should have seen Nicks bullshit for what it was

Mostly, I appologise for not going straight to the source to verify or counter Nick Smiths statement

Sorry Ulysses

Ulysses have taken a very active and mature role on this campaign from day one
Its time we all put personal agenda's aside and fought together

Thank you for the statement Peter

Well said. As a Ulyssian I was deeply preturbed with what I was reading on this forum.
There is always a silver linning to every cloud. In this instance It appears to be the way all the clubs and motorcycle organisations have pulled together.
United We stand Divided we fall.
Cheers:niceone:

[Ronin]

I'd suggest that Peter McIntosh, himself, should go to the media to publicly call Nick Smith out over this, rather than simply posting a statement on here.

I'm with katman.......



shoot me now

[Mudfart]

Divide and conquer my friends, that is any democratic governments strategy since it worked for the English in India.
The department I work for, is trying to do it to our staff.
Don't beleive anything.
Except that my farts stink, they really do, you have been warned.
High protein diet.

[Skyryder]

Yep a denial is what is needed. Whether Smith will give you a chance face to face is another call....................I doubt it.

Next best would be a statement sent to Smith and the media denying any kind of agreement whatsoever. Not as good as a face to face but better than nothing.


Skyryder

[Reckless]

Hold ON!! Voice of reason here again.
The comments where made at a noisy meeting with Nick smith off on a rant about how wonderful he was in meeting with Ulysses and doing all this development work with bikers when he said what the said! I think it would be best to make sure he was specific and he cannot wiggle out of it, double mean his words or prove us the fools! He will deny it or at least deny we understood what he said, that's for sure. He probably has access to the tapes, so before people start flying down to Wellington and publicly challenging anyone we should make sure we have him Bang to rights! How is the problem!
Even though I thought "shit thats no good" at the time. I'm not entirely sure of his exact words the following day? Ask 10 people and they will probably have a slight variance. I applaud your enthusiasm but a public confrontation that backfires on us is not what we need at present. Its facts or nothing.

Next time we must record the event or at least the sound, I wish I had of thought of it in the first place! Hindsight 20/20!

Edit:
BTW Big ups! to Peter McIntosh for taking the time to make their position clear, I look forward to riding with Ulysses on another protest ride!!!!

[Blackbird]

Interesting what Ulysses said about the Injury Prevention side of ACC too. Good on 'em for using this to run training programmes for their members. However, shouldn't ACC themselves be more proactive with injury prevention, not only for bikes but for car drivers too? This includes upping the required standard for getting a license.

[James Deuce]

Hang on a minute, since when did Ulysses publicly support the BIKEOI? They didn't. They objected to the idea, but not their members participating in it.

I don't recall seeing a Ulysses banner at the front of the barricades, though I may have been mistaken and will happily apologise if that is the case.

There's more than one worm wriggling on the hook methinks.

Once again I'd like to reiterate that the main issue here is not our wallets. It's the systematic destruction of Kiwi community spirit in replacing a No Fault compensation scheme with a some of you are responsible and deserve it insurance rort.

People need to stop focussing on the money and get back to the paying a flat rate that ensures each person and their dependants is/are adequately cared for in the event of an accident or death that is at the heart of ACC - No Fault Compensation.

[P38]

Thanks for this statement Peter.

I for one are 100% behind you on this one.

As I see it this is nothing more than a cheap shot at the old "Divide then Conquer Tatic". :argue:

Wake up Nick Smith, were not gonna fall for that one!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Nick your doing your best to see yourself and the National Party relegated back to the opposition benches.
We wont beforgetting this in a hurry.

Keep it up and thats were you'll stay too. :headbang:

[Dan Mapp]

Once again I'd like to reiterate that the main issue here is not our wallets. It's the systematic destruction of Kiwi community spirit in replacing a No Fault compensation scheme with a some of you are responsible and deserve it insurance rort.

People need to stop focussing on the money and get back to the paying a flat rate that ensures each person and their dependants is/are adequately cared for in the event of an accident or death that is at the heart of ACC - No Fault Compensation.

What he said.

[Ixion]

Hang on a minute, since when did Ulysses publicly support the BIKEOI? They didn't. They objected to the idea, but not their members participating in it.

I don't recall seeing a Ulysses banner at the front of the barricades, though I may have been mistaken and will happily apoligise if that is the case.

There's more than one worm wriggling on the hook methinks.

...


No matter . What was, was (and there is a bit more history then has surfaced).

Water under the bridge. The campaign STARTED on 17th November. It's going forward that matters and we all , old and young, crusiers and spotsbikes, four strokes and two strokes, scooters and tourers need to march forward, if not in unison (getting bikers to do anything in unison ! :rofl:), at least in vaguely the same direction.

Ulysses are on board. That's what counts and what Nick may have schemed is history ,and hopefully he knows it now.

What our challenge now is to get Bill Battler to realise that he is going to be paying out an extra $500 , it's not just about bikers.

And getting mainstream New Zealand to tell Nick Smith that ACC is for New Zealanders, not trans Tasman asset strippers.

[Bald Eagle]

Too true we need to stop this divide and conquer BS

[NighthawkNZ]

What our challenge now is to get Bill Battler to realise that he is going to be paying out an extra $500 , it's not just about bikers.

I know I will not be able to afford much let alone my bike if I have to pay the new PAYE $2.48 per $100 levy as well as the $730 levy for rego (+ rego) and the increase in fuel... :( I not on a big wage...

the bit the irks me more is that we pay more and they are wanting cut services

[James Deuce]

Too true we need to stop this divide and conquer BS

Absolutely. But don't go squandering integrity in the process. Ulysses haven't supported the protest from the start. A better worded release would have started, "We have come to realise that..", and I'd be right there up the front cheerleading for Ulysses.

From a more positive perspective it appears the Dr Smith's attempts to divide and conquer have simply strengthened slightly uneasy alliances. Ixion is correct in that the "water under the bridge" appraoch needs to be taken, so I'll shut up mmmkay?

[Mom]

Get the pair of them together on Close Up.

Have you contacted them with that story idea? I have.



Once again I'd like to reiterate that the main issue here is not our wallets. It's the systematic destruction of Kiwi community spirit in replacing a No Fault compensation scheme with a some of you are responsible and deserve it insurance rort.

People need to stop focussing on the money and get back to the paying a flat rate that ensures each person and their dependants is/are adequately cared for in the event of an accident or death that is at the heart of ACC - No Fault Compensation.


Sadly J2 listening to Nics Myth last night, it already is an insurance company, not only that but he is hell bent on comparing what happens in Australia to what happens here. We HAVE to fight for our ACC scheme. If nothing else we at least will be able to say we tried.

Me, I am not about to go away, hopefully I am not alone.

[DougieNZ]

Hang on a minute, since when did Ulysses publicly support the BIKEOI? They didn't. They objected to the idea, but not their members participating in it.

I don't recall seeing a Ulysses banner at the front of the barricades, though I may have been mistaken and will happily apologise if that is the case.


Get ready to apologise mate.. Ulysses were heavily involved in marshalling at both the Papakowhai and Avalon marshalling points and several other places. I personally was heavily involved on the day along with several follow Ulyssians. Ulyssians are just as outraged as all other motorcyclists... The reason I wasn't "at the front with my banner" is because I was one of the last to arrive - after riding at the back and ensuring (with several other Wgtn and Kapiti Ulyssians) that 4,500 odd motorcycles at Papakowhai got in to Welllington OK.

What we are seeing here is rather normal..

"Why doesn't the Ulysses President tell us the real story"
"Speak up the Ulysses President"
"What is going on with the Ulysses"
etc etc

Then the president makes a statement. Most normal people would then apologise (thanks to some that have).

But no - now it becomes

"Ulysses President should make a media statement"
"Ulysses President should go on Close Up"

Unbelievable!! You made a mistake and believed the politicians as apposed to a fellow motorcycler who has ALWAYS been on side. Now be big enough to APOLOGISE and lets get on with fighting the REAL enemy???

[Mom]

What did he say?


Among other things;


http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2009/12/mom-nick-smith-tells-lies-attempting-to.html

[StoneY]

Actually James once we had the Safety meeting (which Peter attended I might point out) the tone changed to a solid onside attitude
There was a little to and fro'ing but on the actual day Ulysses stepped way WAY up and even spent club funds on printing, megafone hire etc etc

Again, lest forget the 'us vs them' we need to be one family untill we can start filling in the trenches and rolling up the barbed wire

And as James has pointed out, lets not lose sight of the target, not JUST the money but the raping and pillaging of our treasured no fault system


PETERS IS ON TV3 NEWS right NOW

[James Deuce]

Get ready to apologise mate.. Ulysses were heavily involved in marshalling at both the Papakowhai and Avalon marshalling points and several other places. I personally was heavily involved on the day along with several follow Ulyssians. Ulyssians are just as outraged as all other motorcyclists... The reason I wasn't "at the front with my banner" is because I was one of the last to arrive - after riding at the back and ensuring (with several other Wgtn and Kapiti Ulyssians) that 4,500 odd motorcycles at Papakowhai got in to Welllington OK.

I distinctly remember that Ulysses the National organisation wasn't that fussed with the BIKEOI protest but wouldn't prevent their members participating. I wasn't suggesting that those Ulysses members that stepped up to help with the BIKEOI were in any way tarnished by that attitude. But Ulysses the organisation chose to do their own protest ride and pow wow ahead of the BIKEOI and IMO (and in the opinion of some of the bike haters I know and work with) potentially diluted the impact of the BIKEOI a couple of weeks later. It didn't though, did it?

Truth is the first casualty of war.

[Mully]

Just out of interest, is there video evidence of Smithy "stretching the truth"?

Cos if so, a nice letter from Peter McIntosh to Smithy outlining Smithy's "stretching" with a few people in copy might be the go.

People like:
TVNZ
TV3
NZ Harald
Fairfax Media
Radio NZ
Radio Live

perhaps......

EDIT: Actually, is that complainable to the Speaker? Or do the misleading statements have to be in/to the House?

Cos if it was, that would be hysterically funny.

[Mom]

Just out of interest, is there video evidence of Smithy "stretching the truth"?

Cos if so, a nice letter from Peter McIntosh to Smithy outlining Smithy's "stretching" with a few people in copy might be the go.

People like:
TVNZ
TV3
NZ Harald
Fairfax Media
Radio NZ
Radio Live

perhaps......


TV3 recorded the entire meeting last night.

[NighthawkNZ]

I do hope you have been ending every conversation with the minister...

"Good luck with the next election ..."

[Mully]

TV3 recorded the entire meeting last night.

Can't find it on their website - do you have a contact at TV3??

[shafty]

As a Ulyssian I have posted my thoughts on our website:

"I reckon we need to use Natcom funds to take out a full page advert in the Herald and the Dom to clarify our position (from that which Nick Smith has twisted) and to reiterate the injustice they propose.

I for one would be happy with the expenditure.

This IS the rainy day....."

[rustic101]

The Ulysses Club categorically denies that it has entered into any agreement with ACC or Minister Smith over ACC levies and road safety programmes as apparently suggested by Dr Smith recently. We are absolutely against the outrageous levy rises still being put forward by ACC and are committed to working with other clubs and organisations to fight their implementation.

As Ulysses National President I am disappointed that many bikers have appeared to take Dr Smith’s comments at face value. Ulysses has been at the forefront of the ACC protests. I have been very vocal in my condemnation of the proposed changes to ACC – not only the motorcycling issues but the other changes that impact on us all as New Zealanders: car levy up 36%, diesel goods vehicles levy up 94%, increases in petrol, employee, employer and self employed levies plus cuts in services.

The first mass rally in Nelson was widely supported by the local Ulysses branches and other clubs. I was invited to take part and did so in my role as National President. Ulysses organised the mass rallies held across the country on the following two weekends – thousands of bikers demonstrated in Wellington, Auckland, Hamilton, Christchurch, Timaru, Tauranga and other towns. Then the Bikoi – once the message of maximum safety and minimum disruption was implemented, the Ulysses Club took an active part in supporting the ride as did many of our members. I was out of the country at the time of the Bikoi and was unable to attend.

The work that Ulysses has done and still does with the Injury Prevention arm of ACC will continue and is separate from the levy issue. This work has input from other motorcycle clubs and interest groups and continues to benefit all motorcyclists.

It is clear that the fight against the levy increases is not over – that was very evident in ACC’s complete disregard for the hundreds of submissions that had been made. The revised proposed levies are completely unacceptable as they are only marginally less than the originals. We need to stand together not only as motorcyclists but as citizens of this country. The government has a clear agenda to attack the very fabric of ACC – an institution that is world renown no fault compensation scheme. We need to push for a full scale review if ACC with a view to returning it to its original purpose. ACC management and the government have done a great job of hiding the massive changes planned for ACC behind the furore around the motorcycle levies. We need to engage public support for the wider purpose while ensuring that our interests are protected.

Peter McIntosh,
National President,
Ulysses Club of New Zealand Inc


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113905

[StoneY]

Just out of interest, is there video evidence of Smithy "stretching the truth"?

Cos if so, a nice letter from Peter McIntosh to Smithy outlining Smithy's "stretching" with a few people in copy might be the go.

People like:
TVNZ
TV3
NZ Harald
Fairfax Media
Radio NZ
Radio Live

perhaps......



I had Radio Live call me at work this arvo...I repeated the standard lines ACC not broke, ask Charlie Lamb PhD, said its obviously being prepared for privatization, etc......

Beat the drum...beat the drum....sigh

[Mully]

I had Radio Live call me at work this arvo...I repeated the standard lines ACC not broke, ask Charlie Lamb PhD, said its obviously being prepared for privatization, etc......

Beat the drum...beat the drum....sigh

Did you tell Radio Live to ring Mr McIntosh with regard to Smithy's claims?

Or was it before you found out?

[StoneY]

Did you tell Radio Live to ring Mr McIntosh with regard to Smithy's claims?

Or was it before you found out?

Pete has his own channels mate, he aint happy with Smithy, watch ... its comin

[ST4s]

"I reckon we need to use Natcom funds to take out a full page advert in the Herald and the Dom to clarify our position (from that which Nick Smith has twisted) and to reiterate the injustice they propose.

I for one would be happy with the expenditure.

This IS the rainy day....."

I'd 2nd that - but we, as Ulysses, should SUE him. The posts here are proof of damage to the club's reputation.

[duckonin]

I'd 2nd that - but we, as Ulysses, should SUE him. The post here are proof of damage to the club's reputation.

Yes I would also move with that...

[Dan Mapp]

Among other things;


http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2009/12/mom-nick-smith-tells-lies-attempting-to.html

Thanks.
I think we need to know why the media is not chasing up all these lies. Something to do with the free to air broadcasters getting tax payer money to show the Rugby world cup maybe???

[Mom]

Thanks.
I think we need to know why the media is not chasing up all these lies. Something to do with the free to air broadcasters getting tax payer money to show the Rugby world cup maybe???

Ask them. Really, ask them. The more the merrier on this roundabout :sunny:

[Blackbird]

Ask them. Really, ask them. The more the merrier on this roundabout :sunny:

Have a look at Rod Oram's analysis. It's the most succinct I've seem and actually deals with FACTS! http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2262350/Rod-Oram-ACC-the-political-claims-and-the-reality.

[ZX12R Hoon]

Peter has said a lot and I agree with him 100%.

I'll just add my thoughts.

The Statement of Position on the front page of the Ulysses National Website is the position we have and hold to. http://www.ulysses.org.nz/

I was at the meeting with Mr Smith in his office and at the Akarana Yacht Club meeting last night so I have a unique insight to these statements.

In Wellington we didn’t agree or accept that increases were either justified or acceptable, only apparently inevitable given the intractable attitude of the Minister and the unscrupulous actions of ACC.

The major statement, made by Les Mason and heartily agreed to by all twelve biking representatives, was that there should be a single ACC rate for ALL PRIVATE PASSENGER MOTOR VEHICALS. Vans, SUV's cars and motorcycles.

Last night at Akarana Mr Smith started this contencious phase of the meeting by attacking BRONZ for not being interested in working with ACC to provide Rider training/ injury prevention programs (Les Mason was on his feet and demanding a retraction on that) Nick Smith went on to say that Ulysses had been very good in it’s workings with ACC to provide these things, (now this is where I get a little lost because Les was making that much noise that I couldn’t really hear what Nick said next). I’d make these points-


1. The Statement of position is publically stated, it's hard to believe that anyone would think that the National Committee of a Club of 3200 plus motorcyclists would have so little integrity as to say something like that reportedly said by Nick Smith after placing that statement on the front page of our National website.

2. We are all bikers on the National Committee, there is no way that we would ever accept those terms under any circumstances.


I have been trying to work up a coalition of interested groups, I truely beleive that it is the only practcal way forward. There are a number of bike interest groups plus many more diverse ones, Victims of abuse, Womens rights, ACCFutures etc and there will be more as the proposed levies start to bite. We are all fighting our little fights on our own little issues when the real issue is the overall changes to the phylosophy of ACC, away from that which the citizens of NZ agreed to and gave up the right to sue for. We all should be getting together to fight that big fight and by doing that we will win our small battles.

Also every biker should be advocating to anyone who will listen, family, friends, workmates, other clubs, that this will impact everyone in NZ, not just bikers. We need to keep them on our side and get them to understand that it's a bigger fight than just regos on motorbikes. At present the majority just don't see it as a problem, they don't understand and they don't care.

I would like to invite any group to contact me and I will start compiling a networking group with a view to setting up a coalition meeting to fight this bloody bullshit as hard as we can, if we don't make a stand with every option we can find we will never forgive ourselves.


Howard Mansell
Secretary, The Ulysses Club of New Zealand Inc.
Ulysses #5281

[Pedrostt500]

Thanks.
I think we need to know why the media is not chasing up all these lies. Something to do with the free to air broadcasters getting tax payer money to show the Rugby world cup maybe???

I think you will find it is more the "If it Bleeds it Leads" mentality, Reality is that the media would have loved for us to have had a major crash with loss of limbs and life at the Bikeoi, it didn't happen, we wern't following their Script, we have not fitted the Medias Steriotypical view on what we should be like, Ie the smelly, greasey, leather clad, neanderthal biker.
I think the Media have Misread this whole ACC thing as badly as the Government and ACC.

[Mom]

Have a look at Rod Oram's analysis. It's the most succinct I've seem and actually deals with FACTS! http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2262350/Rod-Oram-ACC-the-political-claims-and-the-reality.

I had missed that. Thank you for a very empowering read.

[chanceyy]

Have a look at Rod Oram's analysis. It's the most succinct I've seem and actually deals with FACTS! http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/2262350/Rod-Oram-ACC-the-political-claims-and-the-reality.

That makes for really interesting reading :) thanks

[StoneY]

I'd 2nd that - but we, as Ulysses, should SUE him. The posts here are proof of damage to the club's reputation.

Bling that man


Yes I would also move with that...

That one too!

Motion carried :lol:

[nosebleed]

Levies: ACC's activities are divided up into six accounts. Levies fund four, the government one and a mix of the two fund the last. The process of setting levies is thorough and transparent. For example, a steering committee includes representatives from Business New Zealand, the Council of Trade Unions and the AA.

Last night Nick Smith spent some time trying to expand on the accounts and the various liabilities and responsibilities.
Further to the 3 main accounts he was discussing this quote from the Rod Oram piece suggests that the various commitee members are bending the ministers ear from their own particular agenda.
In the Blue corner we have the Employers point of view, and the Business round table.
In the Red corner, the Employees point of view would and the CTU.

Which leaves only the motoring fund, and guess who...

[Brian d marge]

not trans Tasman asset strippers.

I like trans tasman asset strippers

the one down me local has wonderful assets ....You leave her out of this

Stephen

[StoneY]

Ok I meet Right Honorable Phil Goff tonight, gonna ask what recourse their is when a minister of the crown lies in a public meeting and it can be proven

Worth a crack

:)

[StoneY]

Bump therad

Please see post 1, its has an Edit you all need to read

[Bodir]

How can he claim that he was misquoted. Was he not there and listening to what he said himself?

And I thought I have a short attention span :innocent:

[RiderInBlack]

How can he claim that he was misquoted. Was he not there and listening to what he said himself?

And I thought I have a short attention span :innocent:Na it just Nick Myth BSíng again. We could have powered NZ on his BS by now if it had been of higher quality. Should sent Nick Myth a bill for polluting NZ with all the green-house gas he keeps emitting.

[Tone165]

I wish the Australian Ulysses Club Nat'l committee had half the balls that it's NZ counterparts are showing here.

We have our own battle going on here over freedom of association laws, Ulysses Natcom have gutlessly distanced themselves from any of it and been hiding behind the door so far.