PDA

View Full Version : Honda VFR1200 a big fat lemon?



Pages : [1] 2

Hitcher
1st December 2009, 19:18
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/First-rides--tests/2009/November/nov3009-honda-vfr1200f-not-good-enough/?&R=EPI-120478

MCN appears to be decidedly underwhelmed, despite a junket on some of Europe's best motorcycle riding roads in the south of Spain.

I must admit to being very surprised when Honda announced that they planned to replace three iconic models (the VFR800, CBR1100XX and ST1300) with a single model. "Honda-san knows what he's doing," I said. It appears that I may have been wrong.

325rocket
1st December 2009, 19:24
shit, so is that the end of the VFR800?

its bloody ugly. very BMWish but with a huge crappy exhaust

Hitcher
1st December 2009, 19:25
shit, so is that the end of the VFR800?

Yes it is. Buy one now if you want a new one.

325rocket
1st December 2009, 19:31
Yes it is. Buy one now if you want a new one.

always wanted a VFR800 but figured i would get one when i grew out of the sports bike lifestyle.

hang on ... 800 is more than 600 so i guess national have fucked that idea for me anyway.

Hitcher
1st December 2009, 19:41
And if you want this new Honda to do what an ST1300 does, you have to buy hard luggage, adding to what already looks like being a pricey bike.

James Deuce
1st December 2009, 19:41
Everyone looks forward to a new V4 from Honda and instead of chocolate camshafts they give us a whale. With hidden wheels, two clutches nicked from an Audi and a cross-your-heart bra to keep the screen on. Don't mention the exhaust.

I like your thinking 325rocket. In for a penny, in for a pound. If you're going to buy something over 600cc, it may as well make 200 HP, 200 torques and be capable of scaling Mt Aoraki in a single bound. Chin Up, they won't be able to catch you on your ATV crotch rocket :).

vifferman
1st December 2009, 19:46
Looks like mebbe the end of Hondas for me.
That's OK - I've always hankered after a Ducati, and the Triumphs are finally starting to get better than the crappy 750 triple I rode 9 years ago.

SixPackBack
1st December 2009, 20:15
08 CBR1000RR was also a dog. Dynamically it was the balls; reliability has been an international meltdown!.....Check out honda/fireblade forums on the subject, last time I looked the subject was as popular as ACC is for KB.
Honda is facing stiff competition and buckling under the weight of their own arrogance!

Blackbird
1st December 2009, 20:23
Technical masterpiece? Possibly.

Does it appeal to VFR 800, CBR1100XX or ST1300 users? Well, all the international Blackbird websites think it's a dog, so there's one "loyal to Honda" market sector alienated for starters. With all that tasteless chrome and bling, it might find a bit of a following in Uncle Sam.

Nope, it might just be an expensive lemon.

Hitcher
1st December 2009, 20:33
It wouldn't have taken much to upgrade the ST1300: revised rake, 120/70 17" front and 180/55 17" rear; adjustable USD Showa front suspenders; modified screen; pannier locks that let the key be removed when the box is open; span-adjustable clutch lever; some edgier styling cues and louder pipes to hide that really annoying cam whine; and Mr Honda would have a product that went close to an FJR1300.

Swoop
2nd December 2009, 17:50
I must admit to being very surprised when Honda announced that they planned to replace three iconic models (the VFR800...
Not so.

The 800 will continue in production.
Latest BRM article on the 1200 and the re-review of the 800, as reference here.

Taz
2nd December 2009, 17:57
It is ugly............. Shame I might have liked a third VFR.:no:

James Deuce
2nd December 2009, 19:07
Not so.

The 800 will continue in production.
Latest BRM article on the 1200 and the re-review of the 800, as reference here.
Not according to the latest airfreighted Bike magazine I read.

Hitcher
2nd December 2009, 20:44
Not according to the latest airfreighted Bike magazine I read.

Or this: http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2010-honda-vfr1200f-revealed-88803.html

GKTaylor
4th December 2009, 08:11
Ref Quote. SixPacBack Honda is facing stiff competition and buckling under the weight of their own arrogance!

You will find most of their R&D spend is going elsewhere, by that I mean not motorcycles, try alternative fuel vehicles, they are in the top 20 of R&D spenders of any industry worldwide and No.1 in the automotive industry hardly arrogance, just more focus elsewhere, which may in future bring newer tech to motorcycles.
Suzuki have been concentrating on other things for a while also, you only have to look at their rise in 4 stroke outboard motor sales, hardly a dramatic change in any of their bikes since the release of their improved cruiser class.
Kawasaki are developing a new motorcycle engine, no sign of it yet, but their R&D budget is most likely being swallowed by their new train for moving the masses very quickly.
The only motorcycle company I see with R&D results of any future significance for the masses is BMW.

Elysium
6th December 2009, 20:27
Still surprised they decided to can the ST series. I wonder if that's to do with the ST " Pan Weave" problem that occurs on the ST1300 at high speeds.

smoky
6th December 2009, 20:40
The Europeans don't normally take to anything Jap in a hurry. A couple of European negative reviews are the norm

I think I'll reserve my judgement until we see it down under

Hitcher
6th December 2009, 20:43
It looks as though these will be expensive and come in any colour as longs as it's red.

Elysium
6th December 2009, 20:47
It looks as though these will be expensive and come in any colour as longs as it's red.

Beats green!

The the side fairings look so empty. Needs a bigger badge or logo of some sort.

James Deuce
6th December 2009, 20:49
Beats green!

The the side fairings look so empty. Needs a badge or logo of some sort.

Or a few holes from one of these.

http://mission4today.com/uploads/forums/thumbs/t_gau-8a_30mm.jpg

Ocean1
6th December 2009, 20:57
Or a few holes for one of these.


Fixed.....

James Deuce
6th December 2009, 22:10
Fixed.....
Heaven knows the VFR's big enough to fit one of those.

Swoop
7th December 2009, 09:24
Going by the English prices, it may end up being close to 30k.
The article said NZ will get the base model in early 2010 and the rest of the series in August.
Tui, anyone?

RavenR44
7th December 2009, 12:09
Going by the English prices, it may end up being close to 30k.
The article said NZ will get the base model in early 2010 and the rest of the series in August.
Tui, anyone?

The local dealers have been told early Feb for its initial appearance down in these here parts. Some, who shall remain nameless, have even had their quota confirmed so I guess it's less 'Tui' than you'd think.

I read the local comic with the ride review on the 1200 which wasn't too bad from a road perspective while suffering as a track machine (go figure :D). And there's a quote from a Japanese Honda spokesparrot claiming there's no killing off the 800 in the immediate future.

Interesting how with familiarity, the design issues that initially bothered one end up being appreciated and even admired. Pity that hasn't happened with the viffer 1200 though.

Swoop
7th December 2009, 13:40
And there's a quote from a Japanese Honda spokesparrot claiming there's no killing off the 800 in the immediate future.
Yes, I read that too.

It would be interesting to see how big their "quota" is.:yes:

James Deuce
7th December 2009, 13:50
Certainly not what the factory is saying, and they've dropped the 800 from production and gone to a single shift instead of double shift operation as well. They've probably got a backlog from 06-09 to sell first.

RavenR44
7th December 2009, 13:59
Certainly not what the factory is saying, and they've dropped the 800 from production and gone to a single shift instead of double shift operation as well. They've probably got a backlog from 06-09 to sell first.

Ah, who to believe. One thing's for sure, there is a backlog of 800s to sell through, so they'll be available for a while at least. It'll be interesting to see if there's a sudden price-drop come February. Since I haven't dropped any dosh on an 800 as yet, I could wait it out. :) But then I'd miss out on much of the Summer riding. :(

Decisions, decisions... :D

HenryDorsetCase
7th December 2009, 16:42
The more I look at it, the more I want a Harley Davidson. Dyna Street Bob at this point. Or a Sportster. XR1200X.

something that doesnt look like a big pile of poo and have all those gee gaws and clutches and ABS and all that malarkey. You know. A motorbike. that looks like a motorbike.

vifferman
7th December 2009, 17:27
Technical masterpiece? Possibly.

Does it appeal to VFR 800, CBR1100XX or ST1300 users? Well, all the international Blackbird websites think it's a dog, so there's one "loyal to Honda" market sector alienated for starters. With all that tasteless chrome and bling, it might find a bit of a following in Uncle Sam.

Nup.
The Mrkn VFR forums are mostly not impressed, especially by the likely (high) price, and the fact that once again that they're likely to get little choice of colours, and especially by the realisation that this bike hasn't been designed for Mrkns (= they're not the important Honda market they thought they were).


Beats green!

The the side fairings look so empty. Needs a bigger badge or logo of some sort.
Interestingly (or perhaps not :confused: ), the bike is, in profile, almost Eggs Zachary like the weird VFR concept model, and very reminiscent of the BMW.
Shame that current VFR owners almost unanimously didn't hope for a BMW with a Honda badge...

Hitcher
7th December 2009, 19:54
Going by the English prices, it may end up being close to 30k.

And the luggage is extra, such as it is. I'm looking forward to the head-to-head comparison with the FJR and the Concours. I'm even more looking forward to a head-to-head with the models it replaces: the VFR800, CBR1100XX and the ST1300, if anybody out there in freebie land is game to do one...

davebullet
7th December 2009, 20:17
I thought it was hideous when I first laid eyes on it. But it is the kind of ugly that grows on you (like mould does) after a while. Now it doesn't look so bad. BRM never seem to write a critical review or let us just say they are very careful with their words.

Ocean1
7th December 2009, 21:07
Heaven knows the VFR's big enough to fit one of those.

Cars have been piling on the pounds over the last few years, Colin Chapman’s spinning in his mausoleum. Bikes too, nigh on 90Kg heavier than my tractor for gawd’s sake, and all for the sake of a couple of technobaubles. S’not worth it

Maha
7th December 2009, 21:10
Going by the English prices, it may end up being close to 30k.
The article said NZ will get the base model in early 2010 and the rest of the series in August.
Tui, anyone?

Correct, you get $105 change out of $30K....
Cyclespot are taking deposits now for Feb'.

James Deuce
7th December 2009, 21:13
Cars have been piling on the pounds over the last few years, Colin Chapman’s spinning in his mausoleum. Bikes too, nigh on 90Kg heavier than my tractor for gawd’s sake, and all for the sake of a couple of technobaubles. S’not worth it

I have only one thing to say. 170kg, 146bhp. Two things. Sorry.

Ocean1
7th December 2009, 21:23
I have only one thing to say. 170kg, 146bhp. Two things. Sorry.

Lets talk about torque.

I'll trade teh tractor in next year, I'm waiting on you to depreciate it for me some first.

Gremlin
8th December 2009, 02:34
Thats an ugly bike...

If it does have a small tank (I'm so not interested, I'm not even reading up on its stats) you've just managed to kill off any appeal the likes of blackbird/ST1300 buyers had, as those two bikes had big ranges. For some areas of NZ, this is a real bonus, especially when you throw in the endurance events.

It looks like they've tried for a hybrid between short and long distance country riding... the market differences between say, VFR800 - CBR1100XX - ST1300 is pretty damn big... Jack of all trades, master of none :oi-grr:

nudemetalz
8th December 2009, 09:26
Remember the first VTR thou came with a small tank but subsequent versions had a larger one. Maybe update number-one will sort that out (along with weight-shed etc etc etc).

nico
8th December 2009, 11:52
Not so.

The 800 will continue in production.
Latest BRM article on the 1200 and the re-review of the 800, as reference here.

my thaughts aswell the artcles ive read all say the 800 will contnue, finger crossed the 750 may be due an upgrade soon

James Deuce
8th December 2009, 12:06
my thaughts aswell the artcles ive read all say the 800 will contnue, finger crossed the 750 may be due an upgrade soon
The only articles I've read claiming that have been in two Autralasian magazines. 750 upgraded? You're a being just a bit delusional there.

My thoughts are that Honda will increasingly back away from the big bike market. Of the 15,000,000 bikes they sold last year, 14,000,000 were commuters of 150cc or less. The VFR1200 is supposed to be coming in a bunch of different guises and the designer has been quoted numerous times as saying that the 800 is too gutless for two-up work in the market it is aimed at, due to things like the FJR1300, STX1300, and even the Bandit 1250 out-performing it in the two-up Sports Tourer role.

As I've said before the Honda plant producing big bikes (including MX and off roaders of all types) is down to half capacity and it can still build the Australasian yearly allocation in less than a day.

NordieBoy
8th December 2009, 17:12
something that doesnt look like a big pile of poo and have all those gee gaws and clutches and ABS and all that malarkey. You know. A motorbike. that looks like a motorbike.

Something like le Scrambleur?

rocketman1
8th December 2009, 20:00
Hey, I dont think you can knock a bike like this until you've ridden it, sat on it, felt it and smelt it. Give it chance.

James Deuce
8th December 2009, 20:09
I'd love to, but given Honda's lack of Demos in NZ, I'll have to wait until someone with the need to own 30k of Honda buys one and giz us a go.

RavenR44
8th December 2009, 20:21
Hey, I dont think you can knock a bike like this until you've ridden it, sat on it, felt it and smelt it. Give it chance.

You could say the same about my ex mother in law, yet I'm blissfully content to refrain from giving her a chance. Similar thing with the VFR1200 I think. :laugh:

Futura
8th December 2009, 20:42
Check this out, official site for the VFR1200 release:

http://www.feelvfr.com/en_GB/pages/mainpage

Gremlin
8th December 2009, 21:19
Hey, I dont think you can knock a bike like this until you've ridden it, sat on it, felt it and smelt it. Give it chance.
dunno about you... but I like to fancy the bike I am riding... not walk up to it backwards and walk away when finished... :shutup:

Headbanger
8th December 2009, 23:28
Looks pretty damn groovy apart from the mufflers.

Your all haters.:sunny:

vifferman
9th December 2009, 07:32
Hey, I dont think you can knock a bike like this until you've ridden it, sat on it, felt it and smelt it.
Yeah you can.

hmmmnz
9th December 2009, 08:57
man that is one ugly machine, i think ill keep with my nice looking (my humble opinion of course) vf1000, it may not handle as well, and is probly just as heavy, but she's prettier to look at

Blackbird
9th December 2009, 09:08
Yeah you can.

Absolutely:niceone: It would be breaking Kiwi Biker tradition to allow facts to get in the way of an opinion.

Ian's right though. It's a big fat ugly whale which is one reason it wasn't considered as a replacement for the Blackbird. Might appeal to Goldwing riders with sportier inclinations:rolleyes:

Swoop
9th December 2009, 09:33
Hey, I dont think you can knock a bike like this until you've ridden it, sat on it, felt it and smelt it. Give it chance.
I would love to. From past experience, getting a demo ride from Honda will be like trying to get a free shag from a nun. Theoretically possible, but unlikely.

RavenR44
9th December 2009, 09:48
The 1200 resembles a Nth American bison from side on, albeit a shiny red 'un, so it's definitely aimed at the US market. :laugh:

pritch
9th December 2009, 10:51
Absolutely:niceone: It would be breaking Kiwi Biker tradition to allow facts to get in the way of an opinion.

True, and like most KB threads of this nature many of the participants either wouldn't be likely to want to, or be able to, buy the bike anyway.

It may look large, but for comparison purposes:
VFR1200 - 267kg
ST1300 - 312
FJ1200 - 259

The weight disadvantage may be offset however by the power difference:
VFR1200 - 127KW
ST1300 - 93
FJ1200 - 94.9

Then there's the looks. I used to think the 999 looked bloody awful. Now though, it's growing on me and I think it looks great.
Maybe the Honda will do that too although that system hasn't worked for the BMWs so far.

I'd be interested in the Honda but at this stage I'm looking at downsizing rather than upsizing.

Mr. Peanut
9th December 2009, 14:23
I like it, bet it sounds good too.

vifferman
9th December 2009, 16:49
I would love to. From past experience, getting a demo ride from Honda will be like trying to get a free shag from a nun. Theoretically possible, but unlikely.
Really?
I've been on two demo days (admittedly quite a while back) and had no problems cadging rides from the dealer. That's how I ended up with my current bike: I went in to look at helmets, and while I was waiting, a salesperson tried to sell me a new Blackbird. I said, "No thanks", but took him up on a test ride of a couple of VFRs.

The last demo day I went on may have put the dealers off the idea; it turned into an unofficial race day. By the end of the morning sessions, the whole day's petrol allocation was gone, and most of the bikes had fairly well shredded tyres.


I like it, bet it sounds good too.
Nup.
They've ferkt that up somehow; to my ears, it sounds like a parallel twin.

Gremlin
9th December 2009, 18:25
We'll (Zapf and I) probably get our hands on the press one that does the rounds I guess... well, we got our hands on the CB1000R press bike over night.

Gotta ride it I guess to give the final verdict, but there are a lot of areas for improvement based on minimal knowledge so far.

BMWST?
9th December 2009, 21:05
We'll (Zapf and I) probably get our hands on the press one that does the rounds I guess... well, we got our hands on the CB1000R press bike over night.

Gotta ride it I guess to give the final verdict, but there are a lot of areas for improvement based on minimal knowledge so far.

i am pretty sure i saw a vfr on the toy run down here

Gremlin
9th December 2009, 22:09
i am pretty sure i saw a vfr on the toy run down here
I'll have to nudge the shop, if the quotas are already sorted, then yeah, the press bike should be somewhere near...

Blackbird
10th December 2009, 06:18
A friend on the UK Blackbird site came up with an interesting comparison, he reckons the front looks like a braying donkey! Maybe Honda can use it in their marketing:clap:

Maha
10th December 2009, 06:32
A friend on the UK Blackbird site came up with an interesting comparison, he reckons the front looks like a braying donkey! Maybe Honda can use it in their marketing:clap:

Something like.........'Does My Ass Look Big On This'?

nudemetalz
10th December 2009, 09:02
Maybe the V-four engine is hung like a..........

HenryDorsetCase
10th December 2009, 14:55
Something like le Scrambleur?

thats the thing, innit: the scrambler (now Ive spent 30% of its purchase price on upgrades) looks cool, sounds cool, and most importantly, chuffs along in a pleasing manner that is unlikely to have me lose my licence instantly for a month or more if I get stopped by the po po.

I really like it, in a big friendly black labrador way. It has some stupid features (ignition key placement, separate key for the impossible to make work easily steering lock [edit] and the stupid fucking bolt on seat that you have to carry an allen key for (edit) but overall I am happy.)

R-Soul
10th December 2009, 23:33
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/First-rides--tests/2009/November/nov3009-honda-vfr1200f-not-good-enough/?&R=EPI-120478

MCN appears to be decidedly underwhelmed, despite a junket on some of Europe's best motorcycle riding roads in the south of Spain.

I must admit to being very surprised when Honda announced that they planned to replace three iconic models (the VFR800, CBR1100XX and ST1300) with a single model. "Honda-san knows what he's doing," I said. It appears that I may have been wrong.

I read that teh VFR 800 remains?

Trouser
11th December 2009, 12:34
It may look large, but for comparison purposes:
VFR1200 - 267kg
ST1300 - 312
FJ1300 - 265
1400GTR - 279

The weight disadvantage may be offset however by the power difference:
VFR1200 - 127KW
ST1300 - 93
FJ1300 - 105.5
1400GTR - 114


Added the Kawasaki and updated the Yamaha to FJR1300 specs.

R-Soul
11th December 2009, 12:35
I like its look in a "power rangers" kinda way.

Like the CBR1000RR has an "Iron Man" look about it.


But having a small tank on a tourer is just dumb.

R-Soul
11th December 2009, 12:39
Here is some more info on the potential gadgetry on it - has this been mentiooned in their press junket?


http://www.gizmag.com/vfr1200-tourer-worlds-safest-bike/13201/

Gremlin
11th December 2009, 13:23
Given my "source" a nudge... No eta's on demos... but they are being organised etc...

AllanB
11th December 2009, 16:17
The magazine reviews I've read like it.

Apparently the quality of finish is superb and sets a new standard for Honda (already very good).

Although the muff looks dorky (even black would be better than the chrome) I'll wait until I see one in the flesh as I've been fooled by magazine photos before.

And lets face it - the Suzuki Bussa is no oil painting and have their own cult following.

Actually a lot of the modern bikes look a bit dorky to me. Can't say that new Aprilia V4 does anything for me (but the naked version looks interesting.....) ditto most new sports bikes.

Even the street is looking a bit bitsy now I've considered it more :no:

Meh - must be getting old.

vifferman
12th December 2009, 08:51
Here is some more info on the potential gadgetry on it - has this been mentiooned in their press junket?


http://www.gizmag.com/vfr1200-tourer-worlds-safest-bike/13201/

That's the 'T' model; the one just released is the VFR1200F.

R-Soul
14th December 2009, 08:20
That's the 'T' model; the one just released is the VFR1200F.

surely the tech would be mostly transferrable?

Mr. Peanut
30th January 2010, 18:44
Bet if you ditched the standard exhaust system it'd lose 20kg and sound like the dogs bollocks. Especially under load getting a decent thrash. None of this revving on youtube rubbish. V4's are lubberly.

pritch
31st January 2010, 07:12
The last issue of BIKE has photos and they comment that, "It's clear the VFR was designed with luggage in mind". It really looks like it makes sense in the pic where it's fitted with panniers.

Hitcher
31st January 2010, 17:04
The last issue of BIKE has photos and they comment that, "It's clear the VFR was designed with luggage in mind". It really looks like it makes sense in the pic where it's fitted with panniers.

"Luggage in mind" is a bit different to "luggage as standard". There's the ST1300 market fucked for a starter. With this things looking at retailing here for a price somewhat in excess of $30,000 without luggage, I can see market share vaporising overnight, as the new VFR will not be a superior package to its competition in the big sports tourer category.

HenryDorsetCase
5th February 2010, 20:46
and even if it is a superior package, price wise, its way up there.

Its looks have grown on me (its this months bike on my calendar).

Mr. Peanut
9th February 2010, 15:15
"Luggage in mind" is a bit different to "luggage as standard". There's the ST1300 market fucked for a starter. With this things looking at retailing here for a price somewhat in excess of $30,000 without luggage, I can see market share vaporising overnight, as the new VFR will not be a superior package to its competition in the big sports tourer category.

Yes, but Hondas are now something us little people should aspire to. They've been marketing to North America for so long they deserve their inflated price tags. They're allowed to make ugly, heavy, overpriced machines and we'll buy them 'cause they've got product placement in some really cool action movies.

pritch
10th February 2010, 12:14
I note that I've received an email advising that the local dealer is holding a function Friday night to launch the new VFR and the Fury. Think I'll trot along, if only to try and spot the prospective buyers for each model respectively. :devil2:

Oh, and to book a test ride of course... :whistle:

R-Soul
10th February 2010, 12:43
Which dealer?

Lucyloo
10th February 2010, 15:45
Cyclespot have one.

quickbuck
10th February 2010, 18:43
Which dealer?

Don't know which dealer pritch was referring too... but I guess it is in New Plymouth.

City Honda in Palmerston North are having a release evening too.... I got an invite, and RSVP was Monday.
For those in the area, you could ring Michelle at City Honda to see if it's not too late to book in..... Might be though, as there is nibbles ;)

Saturday is test ride day too....

7mmWSM
10th February 2010, 21:23
Don't know which dealer pritch was referring too... but I guess it is in New Plymouth.

City Honda in Palmerston North are having a release evening too.... I got an invite, and RSVP was Monday.
For those in the area, you could ring Michelle at City Honda to see if it's not too late to book in..... Might be though, as there is nibbles ;)

Saturday is test ride day too....

If you want to test ride on Saturday it would pay to call us to book a spot as its likely to be a busy day. Rides will be leaving every half hour. The number is 357 7027.
We will have both the VFR and the Fury available as well as the new injected VTR250

quickbuck
10th February 2010, 21:28
If you want to test ride on Saturday it would pay to call us to book a spot as its likely to be a busy day. Rides will be leaving every half hour. The number is 357 7027.
We will have both the VFR and the Fury available as well as the new injected VTR250

Na, I will pass for now. Think I'm a bit busy Saturday to come in...
Just want to check them out.

See you Friday evening :)

R-Soul
11th February 2010, 08:21
Cyclespot have one.

cycle spot North Shore have one- I had a look at tit last night - it feels tiny for a 1200!! Very low and compact- but comfortable.
I heard the engine note (only at idle) - but it sounded strange- I thougt it would be deeper and more like V-twin. It actually sounds like a car engine? maybe it sounds better at higher revs...

Miscreant
11th February 2010, 08:39
cycle spot North Shore have one- I had a look at tit last night - it feels tiny for a 1200!! Very low and compact- but comfortable.
I heard the engine note (only at idle) - but it sounded strange- I thougt it would be deeper and more like V-twin. It actually sounds like a car engine? maybe it sounds better at higher revs...

Fuck that shit. Everyone knows sound is the most important consideration when buying a motorcycle. If they can't get that right what hope is there for this pos?

Mind you, it's a Honda so shit sound probably appeal to their buyers.

banditrider
11th February 2010, 15:20
I had a quick look at both a red & a silver one today and have to say I've changed my mind about the looks. It is much better in the flesh although the muffler is disgusting (worse than the cannon on my Connie). The paint and finish looked superb. Also, quite a bit smaller than I thought - should be very chuckable. Single sided swing-arm with shaft drive is very neat. Headlight not as bad looking as I had feared and the seat looked ok. Prefer the silver to the red.

Price is still not listed but you'd have to say it won't be cheap and then you still have to add luggage to make it tour. Not sure if I'm gonna go to the launch or test-ride yet - I still believe that my Connie would be a better tourer (esp if you were 2-up) and I'm not ready to trade her yet...

Toaster
11th February 2010, 15:55
Yikes, I think the idea was to double the exhaust as a mortar launcher in case of invasion.

Seriously in need of a tail tidy.

Front end not too bad. Pics never seem to do bikes justice.

Swoop
11th February 2010, 16:01
Have now swung a leg over one.
Seating position is very nice, quite similar to the 800 really.
Very narrow at the crotch and the back end is lubberly.
The fueltank, although small capacity, takes a bit of space.
The front end... Yes, it is still fuc*ing horrible. Hopefully Mr Honda has heard of a "makeover".

Will be attempting to prise a test ride from a dealer, somewhere. It has got to ride better than it looks... (Getting a test ride from a honda dealer is like trying to get the labour party to assist businesses...)
I see this as the start of a long line of bikes that will evolve and improve as time goes by.

imdying
11th February 2010, 17:54
Pics never seem to do bikes justice.Wait till Big Dave gets a hold of it. He definitely has a better eye than most of the motoring photographers, and has made a number of 'ugly' bikes more palatable.

pritch
11th February 2010, 18:32
Fuck that shit. Everyone knows sound is the most important consideration when buying a motorcycle. If they can't get that right what hope is there for this pos?

Mind you, it's a Honda so shit sound probably appeal to their buyers.

So, have you decided what you're going to do when you finish school? :whistle:

quickbuck
11th February 2010, 20:31
So, have you decided what you're going to do when you finish school? :whistle:
Marketing???

Ocean1
11th February 2010, 21:32
So, have you decided what you're going to do when you finish school? :whistle:


Marketing???

Finish school?

Miscreant
12th February 2010, 00:07
So, have you decided what you're going to do when you finish school? :whistle:

You mean I'll have to finish school one day? Fuck that shit, I hear the pay is not so good on the dole. Know any good doctors they say sickness benefit is where it's at.
You can relax though, I can bleed mum and dad for a few more years yet, but be sure you keep busy coz I need a lot of looking after ok.

R-Soul
12th February 2010, 08:26
The guy at Honda mentioned around $29k. eish!
I reckon the front is pretty (hey, one man's poison...etc), the position is great, and the bike is really small for a 1200. Low seat as well.

The engine note and 'zorst look could probably be fixed with a set of aftermarket pipes (although as I say I have not heard it on the run yet, so it may not be too bad).

The one thing that is unfixable is the small tank though - especially for a tourer. Mind you i am used to that with Firestorm. Actually the small tank doesn't work outtoo badly- it gives you an excuse to stretch your legs frequently.

AllanB
12th February 2010, 09:13
Hampton Honda have one in today - 6.00pm thingy this evening for any interested CHCH riders. Also the new Fury. They are booking Saturday test rides. I may go and have a perve, although no chance of purchasing it is a nice way to end the working week.

yod
12th February 2010, 09:43
City Honda in Palmy have the 'grand inveiling' this evening for both the VFR and the new VTX, test rides to follow

i think i'll have to give it a whirl at some stage, very interested to see the comparison with a Blackbird

i don't 'dislike' the looks per se, but they don't exactly thrill me either - interested to see a) if they have the tippy-troniccy transmission model or not and b) what it's like, i read one review where it was touted as better than the manual.....judgement reserved on that point.

banditrider
12th February 2010, 09:45
City Honda in Palmy have the 'grand inveiling' this evening for both the VFR and the new VTX, test rides to follow

i think i'll have to give it a whirl at some stage

i don't 'dislike' the looks per se, but they don't exactly thrill me either - interested to see a) if they have the tippy-troniccy transmission model or not and b) what it's like, i read one review where it was touted as better than the manual.....judgement reserved on that point.

They have 2 in there - not sure what trannies they are running. They have a blue VTX there as well - not my cup a char for sure.

vifferman
12th February 2010, 10:43
They have 2 in there - not sure what trannies they are running.
The initial bikes on the market are - AFAIK - all manual transmission versions.

yod
12th February 2010, 12:41
The initial bikes on the market are - AFAIK - all manual transmission versions.

go on, you know you wanna trade the 46 on the new beast.....any idea what it's factory designation is? it must be SC something....??

edit: apparently it's the SC63

HenryDorsetCase
12th February 2010, 13:11
Hampton Honda have one in today - 6.00pm thingy this evening for any interested CHCH riders. Also the new Fury. They are booking Saturday test rides. I may go and have a perve, although no chance of purchasing it is a nice way to end the working week.

I was going to go but am doing the trackday tomorrow at Ruapuna and it will take me all night to organise my shit. No, the Metamucil isn't helping.

Hitcher
12th February 2010, 20:39
The guy at Honda mentioned around $29k. eish!

And that's without luggage. A price like that will make the ST1300 chaps snort. At least they'll now be able to buy tyres off the rack.

Swoop
12th February 2010, 21:25
The guy at Honda mentioned around $29k. eish!

The engine note and 'zorst look could probably be fixed with a set of aftermarket pipes...
For 29k I wouldn't be spending anything on "extra" pipes. They had better be fitted already.

TerminalAddict
12th February 2010, 23:35
$29k bike
$1k top box
$2k panniers
$300 main stand (no chain so do you really need one?)
Some other accessories on the list that I can't remember right now.

I'm booked in for s test ride at 9am (err . .this morning)

pritch
13th February 2010, 09:16
Energy Honda, the New Plymouth dealer, are importing Devil aftermarket cans. The Devil carbon can looks the goods on the Predator, and in response to my question I was told they're working on a can for the new VFR.

I don't know why people go on about ugly mufflers on this or any other bike. Since the Euro 3 emissions laws came in virtually everything has an ugly muffler, the bigger the bike the uglier the muffler.

I'm taking Thursday & Friday off next week and will book a ride for then.

7mmWSM
13th February 2010, 13:51
Thanks for everyone who came along to the City Honda launch last night and all the keen punters who braved the weather today for a test ride.
I can confirm 2 have sold already and we have had plenty interest so far.
I rode the bike myself yesterday and was blown away by the performance and how easy it was to ride. It makes the Blackbird feel old and outdated in comparison!

Miscreant
13th February 2010, 14:11
Thanks for everyone who came along to the City Honda launch last night and all the keen punters who braved the weather today for a test ride.
I can confirm 2 have sold already and we have had plenty interest so far.
I rode the bike myself yesterday and was blown away by the performance and how easy it was to ride. It makes the Blackbird feel old and outdated in comparison!

Ah that's because the Blackbird IS old and outdated FFS.
It was old and outdated the day suzuki released the hayabusa.

AllanB
13th February 2010, 15:20
I had a look and a sit at Hamptons one today.

Ignore any photos you have seen - you need to view it in the flesh.

Even the muffler that I thought was gawd-awful in the photos looks AOK to me - it is tucked in nicely and not at all over size (see Bussa or Big Kawa for huge mufflers).

Beautiful finish to the point where tha paint is so good it would be a shame to ride it and get it marked! (how gays that then?).

I'm a self proclaimed traditionalist regarding motorcycle styling - I like to see the engine and like clean lines. This Honda is clean, almost too clean in the fairing department but I think it makes a Bussa look dated ........ And you cannot see the engine - I await the V4 sport version ....... naked of course.

Check out the rear wheel too - yum.

29k - irrelevant for me as I do not have it and would not be buying a tourer if I did. However, instead of thinking of it as a 'Honda' you need to think of it as a state of the art tourer/sporter and in that league the price is comparable. FFS if it had a BMW badge on it people would be wanking on about what good value it is (the finish is way beyond anything BMW is doing).

They had a black Fury there too. Nice chopper, it was very strange seeing one at my Honda dealer!

TerminalAddict
13th February 2010, 17:10
rode it, loved it, would buy it, but don't have $5 let alone $29000 (plus extras)

had Mrs ta on the back during test ride.
pulls like a school boy
uber comfy
lovely slipper clutch (I really want one of those)
Mrs TA liked it also :D .. loved it in fact
manged to get in 71 kms in my 34 minute test ride

Also rode el' furor (the fury) .. funny bike ... lots of nice shiny *cough* plastic ?!?!? .. meh let down by all the plastic

Elysium
14th February 2010, 06:01
Mind you i am used to that with Firestorm. Actually the small tank doesn't work outtoo badly- it gives you an excuse to stretch your legs frequently.

Yep, don't want to be sitting on a bike for too long.

Hmmm might pop down to City Honda when my exhaust parts turn up and have a look, maybe even a test ride.

quickbuck
14th February 2010, 14:26
Yep, don't want to be sitting on a bike for too long.

Hmmm might pop down to City Honda when my exhaust parts turn up and have a look, maybe even a test ride.

Went to the launch... Yep, not my cup of tea totally at this stage.... Don't hate it, but don't think it is quite me... yet. VFR800 still appeals to me as my "Retirement Sports Tourer"
The exhaust note is very car like, but it is a 1237cc V4, and heavy muffling to boot..... Bet it growls when you open it up a bit (not something that can be done in a show room full of people.

Was going to go for a ride on Wednesday if I got into town quickly after work too... Will see...
Yes, that fuel tank size.... well, it should get you the best part of 300k if you aren't riding it like a Blade I reckon.... Depends what Honda have done to the Software at the end of the day, and does it suit sitting on 94km/hr all day (The average speed of cars that are doing 100k indicated).

HenryDorsetCase
14th February 2010, 15:26
Ignore any photos you have seen - you need to view it in the flesh.



I agree with that as well.

The demo showed up at the HAve a Go day yesterday and I had a really good look at it.

In photos it looks like a great big ugly whale. Paint it white and call me Ahab. In the flesh its not that big, and the proportions flat work. Really nice and narrow between the knees, sounded OK (though the VFR800 with gutted cans sounded better, and my straight pipe VFR400 sounded best).

Like you say, compare it to a BMW and it kicks its arse.

My opinion has changed entirely. Not going to rush out and marry it or anything, but it does show you how misleading photos can be.

Richard Mc F
14th February 2010, 20:30
OK weird bike, thrash it and it does not seem that fast, (it is!) drive like a nana, faster than you think, (watch that speedo) put a pillion on, hardly noticed it acceleration handling), get up it and over 6ooo rpm it sounds like a superbike, handling is on rails,( we have negotiated 65kmh posteds at 150kmhplus) edge of the boot down I beiieve the pegs will be soon (we will try it at Hampton Downs soon) BLOODY AWSOME brakes, pillion comfort is superb......that from a wench who has been on the back of ST's and late 'wings ( and more!)

I am still exploring the envelope but this is a tourer with near blade potential!

I think it will have around the 250km range, fuel light flashing ( but not red) 14 litres out of 18.5, 125km of 2 up not down to the half mark ( ooooh so scientific)

pm me for more ...............buying a lotto ticket

Big Dave
16th February 2010, 13:52
Deefinately No Lemon. Very nice looking and very smooth and fast to ride.

First Impression is cross a 1050 Sprint with a Busa.

imdying
16th February 2010, 14:49
The fairing fasteners are awesome :)

As is the opening on the right hand fairing that shows off the exhaust headers. Someone who loves bikes obviously had a crack at it :yes:

Big Dave
17th February 2010, 14:47
Did the test loop and much more today. Vehicle is superb. I put it in the same desirability class as K1300S, Sprint ST and Busa. Road manner has a bit of all of them.

tri boy
17th February 2010, 18:00
Pics/you tube?????????

Big Dave
17th February 2010, 18:24
Working on it - have another photo call shortly - not gunna make BRONZ meeting tonight.

zeocen
17th February 2010, 18:52
The nice chaps at Botany Honda let me have the keys to their tasty red number while my bike was being looked at, I had my helmet cam with me at the time so I decided to bust out a video of it - it's not exactly Big Dave super-awesome material, but it's the VFR1200 and as Big Dave said, it's good. Real good.

Pt.1 first impressions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbLigiT6qg
Pt.2 Walk around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC1lahuYEp8

Big Dave
17th February 2010, 21:27
I'm not going to watch it till after I do mine (I always work that way) - How do you think it accelerates compared to your ZX14?

And hey - you are published before me (I bin too busy luvin' riding it)

zeocen
18th February 2010, 07:14
I've always had reservations about the ZX14 in terms of accelleration. I just never thought it was quite that good in comparison to the other big hitters. The VFR seems to just go, go and go. No matter the gear or speed, if you wanna go then you twist the throttle and it replies appropriately.

The ZX14 feels far more raw and sudden from down low torque, I guess some people would call that "character", but in all honesty, I would still prefer the VFR.

vifferman
18th February 2010, 07:19
In photos it looks like a great big ugly whale. Paint it white and call me Ahab.
...or just buy the white one (if it comes to UnZud..)

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 07:52
197029

Nice looking bike.

Ixion
18th February 2010, 09:21
Price is comparable to other big sports tourers, around $28K I'm told, which sits closely with Kawasaki Concourse, FJR1200, ST1300. Cheaper than BMW, maybe, depending what you measure against, bit cheaper than the MotoGuzzi Norge. But, for a sports tourer, it's lacking in fruit. The model BD had, had ABS (he was vague, but it was there). But no luggage, no glove boxes, no electric screen. No centre stand.

Which sort of puts it into more of the "sports" rather than "sports touring". Riding position is definitely sports touring, not sports or touring . Dunno, not quite sure where it fits. Maybe somewhere alongside the SV1000 or Bandit ? But it'sa LOT more expensive than others in that market space .

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 09:50
It has a much higher spec than a Bandit though - it even has a thermometer!

Swoop
18th February 2010, 10:15
No centre stand.
Fairly sure there is a centre stand fitted as standard.

TerminalAddict
18th February 2010, 10:18
The nice chaps at Botany Honda let me have the keys to their tasty red number while my bike was being looked at, I had my helmet cam with me at the time so I decided to bust out a video of it - it's not exactly Big Dave super-awesome material, but it's the VFR1200 and as Big Dave said, it's good. Real good.

Pt.1 first impressions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbLigiT6qg
Pt.2 Walk around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC1lahuYEp8

full of dodgy quotes. :)

"firm but in a good way"

"Not as fat as in the pictures"

The horn vs indicator is funny as hell .. everyone in Hamilton hit the horn as they were leaving the shop :D

loverley bike

TerminalAddict
18th February 2010, 10:19
Fairly sure there is a centre stand fitted as standard.

Centre stand is a $399 addition .. not standard

Blackbird
18th February 2010, 10:53
There seems to have been an insurance cock-up in the UK with Honda failing to sort out an insurance category with the insurers. Insurance sounds pretty horrific too. Thread here: http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=105830 and a lot more info on the UK VFR forum in general.

Swoop
18th February 2010, 11:29
Centre stand is a $399 addition .. not standard
:crazy:

:wacko:

zeocen
18th February 2010, 11:35
The seating and position is a slightly more relaxed VFR800 feel, the pegs are higher than your average sports tour (so, kinda like the VFR and the Blackbird were). The fancypants model isn't out here yet, I'm guessing I rode the same model as BD.

I would have to agree the price is still steep no matter how you look at it - seems to be Honda's new theme. If all the extras added up to the 29,000 price tag then I would most certainly take preference to the VFR1200 over, say, the Concours (I can't comment on the FJR having never ridden one). The VFR1200 felt like it could be a great sports tour that had the potential to be a heavyweight sports bike when you take the luggage off, rather than something like the Concours that kinda just stays more of a tourer than sports when the luggage is off.

I personally (this is just my opinion) wouldn't place it near an SV1000 or Bandit, purely on just how well made this bike feels, and how sturdy it is, it's an effortless fun, thrilling ride - the only downside I found was the small gas tank (while being actually quite physically big, which i loved) and the price tag.

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 11:37
Doesn't need a centre stand anyway.

Shaftie drivie (and it can wheelie) and tubeless tyres.

Put a nice trolley jack in the shed for cleaning the wheels and job done.

Saves lugging the weight of it around everywhere.

zeocen
18th February 2010, 11:38
You should try source a centre stand for the Hornet 900! It's even more than than the VFR1200's!

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 11:40
KR first draft starts:

It is a shame that the first internet reportage that came my way on the release of the Honda VFR1200 was by an Editor who vented a minor diatribe at the ostentatious claims and hyperbole published in the bike's Press Release – rather than concentrating on the merits of the machine. I think it has tainted some people’s expectations of the bike; which is entirely unjust.

Not long after reading that snippet Mike Esdaile forwarded me some quotes from the VFR online forums where there has also been some ire vented about ‘maintaining the heritage of the VFR marque.’

So when I picked up the Press Bike from Local Distributor Blue Wing Honda I was delighted to discover it’s a simply stunning machine.

If we were true to form I should open with how miserable my first recollections of riding a VFR were. Late 80’s and I had a desk in a design office that looked directly across the road to the local Honda Dealer. Parked out the front was a used Black and White VFR 1000 that looked like a bit of me – so one lunchtime I wandered across the road for a quick spin.

One of the worst experiences I’ve had on a bike. It had a tendency to death wobble in various circumstances – including ‘going’ and ‘stopping’. When I got back and asked what the??? It was attributed to the 16” front wheel. I didn’t know any better then. It probably only had 10lbs in each tyre. But it was enough to taint my opinion of the Viffer for a long time.

So here’s the contrast – the new one knocked my socks off.

I rate the VFR a highly desirable sports tourer with the emphasis on Sports, or it’s a very tidy sports bike for a couple.

Ixion
18th February 2010, 11:44
Actually the market space it probably most closely fits is that of the Honda Blackbird. But it's a lot dearer than the Bird.

Agrred, if it had the same fruit as the Concours or FJR, it'd be a better buy. But adding luggage, adjustable screen, centre stand , prolly going to push it well over $30k, getting up into BMW territory.

jim.cox
18th February 2010, 11:49
Nice looking bike.

NOT

It's fugly

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 11:55
Nah - I like it. 'Very concept' said the young man at the BP Witford.

Back quarter treatment is really nice and the overall finish appears where the $28.5k comes into it. Many nice touches - of course value judgments are an individual thing.

Don't like the headlight aesthetics much, but it functions well.

I pity Dolds trying to make a guard for it.

jim.cox
18th February 2010, 11:59
Back quarter treatment is really nice.

Rear is ok, but everything from the 'zorst forward is really really ugly to my eye - tank, fairing and light especially so - sure wouldn't get my $$$

imdying
18th February 2010, 12:21
Out of interest... do you have any? Money that is. Do you even buy brand new motorcycles on a regular basis?

I'm picking a lot of the people commenting aren't actually ever like to be in a position to afford a toy like this.

jim.cox
18th February 2010, 12:28
Money? - me? No not a lot (Married with kids dontcha know)

But I am actively looking for another bike at present

So far very, very few new ones appeal :(

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 12:38
Development concept
A truly International design team included three Japanese members, one American and one European. Guided by the infinitely experienced Kishi-san (CBR1100XX Blackbird) and overseen by Hasegawa-san, the VFR1200F’s design team was not only culturally varied but also spanned generations. Their collective goal was to create a sports bike with long distance
capabilities. To foster the right mindset the designers imagined waking up to a perfect day and deciding, impulsively, to ride 300km, effortlessly devouring large stretches of highway before carving through twisty roads, just to enjoy lunch in a beautiful location before riding home again. The VFR1200F designers began sketching their ideas in a remote hotel outside Rome. These sketches took many forms and explored every possibility and rather than refine these elements into one final design, the team headed back to Tokyo with all their individual drawings.

On the VFR1200F project, designers and engineers worked in parallel, discussing and perfecting their solutions as the clay model and sketches evolved. European designer, Teofilo Plaza, described this six month-long experience as one of the most intense and passionate of his life. Once the basic design had been agreed, another many months of testing and development lay ahead – a period in which designers and engineers continued to work in unison. The first V4 Concept model was unveiled to a stunned audience at the Intermot show in October 2008. The radically styled show bike perfectly displayed the free-thinking that had absorbed the design team from day one of this revolutionary project. Now, twelve months later, the VFR1200F is ready for launch and whilst its V4 heritage may be patently obvious, the reality is that this machine far surpasses anything that has gone before.

Ixion
18th February 2010, 12:42
Development concept
.. Guided by the infinitely experienced Kishi-san (CBR1100XX Blackbird) ..

[QUOTE]

Told y' so

[QUOTE]

Their collective goal was to create a sports bike with long distance
capabilities. To foster the right mindset the designers imagined waking up to a perfect day and deciding, impulsively, to ride 300km, effortlessly devouring large stretches of highway before carving through twisty roads, just to enjoy lunch in a beautiful location before riding home again. ..

But it can't get 300km on a tank, can it? Even 300km hardly classes as "long distance".

Blackbird
18th February 2010, 12:46
Ixion commented that its origins are probably more to do with the Blackbird than other models. That might have some substance but interestingly, the vast majority of Blackbird riders internationally don't see it as a replacement for their 'birds. Taking up Imdying's comment, being retired and debt-free, I was in a financial position to consider it as a replacement for my 'bird but there was no emotional connection. Guess that's one reason why I have a street Triple at present!

imdying
18th February 2010, 13:20
But it can't get 300km on a tank, can it? Even 300km hardly classes as "long distance".Surely it can? Even a blade will do that.

Blackbird
18th February 2010, 13:27
Surely it can? Even a blade will do that.

Around 250 km has been quoted by a couple of new owners on the UK VFR site. Should improve with bedding in but even so, hardly touring range. The 'bird was good for ~330km in touring mode.

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 14:01
I didn't get 250 - but it was brand new and I rode it a gear lower than it needed till I got the mojo. (and because it was so nice).

250 sounds feasible run in and sensible. In NZ I find that is...satisfactory. If I lived in Wagga Wagga it would be problematic, not to mention the mileage.

My Buell does 240 before the light - 62.4 thereafter. Trophy did 240, Victory Vision almost 400, Harley Ultra 300, Connie was about 280 from memory, FJR went to 300s.

I'm ready for smoko at 200km anyway.

AllanB
18th February 2010, 14:15
Dave - did you notice the cylinders shutting -off?
The Honda chap was telling me if you are cruising at say 100 in top it will shut down the feed to the rear two cylinders to save fuel, open the throttle and they kick back in. He said it was seamless, but I figured you'd notice it in the exhaust note. Many cars do this with cylinders now.
He was also mighty impressed with the brakes.

I just like the paint and finish quality.

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 14:27
Not really noticable. If doesn't have the same 'BAM!!!' as a very large vee twin at 60-80kph, but top gear or spooled up roll ons are a torquer's delight.

It definately has two exhaust note stages.
I would describe them as 'Get ready to go' and 'hang the fuck on'.

Big Dave
18th February 2010, 15:46
Pics
http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2010/02/honda-vfr-1200-first-ride-photos.html

pritch
18th February 2010, 16:01
The horn vs indicator is funny as hell .. everyone in Hamilton hit the horn as they were leaving the shop :D


Me too.

I had it for two hours today. Brilliant! Loved it.

It has shaft drive so why would anyone need a centre stand. People find the strangest things to whinge about.

Plan A is to write more later...

The VFR is not a replacement for the Blackbird. There was a replacement for the Blackbird but it wasn't passed as ready for production and missed its time slot.

Honda are considering other uses for the new engine, eg a sportsbike, but apparently nothing is actually underway.

TerminalAddict
18th February 2010, 19:31
Pics
http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2010/02/honda-vfr-1200-first-ride-photos.html

want to share high res version of the first and last pic ?? :)

Big Dave
19th February 2010, 07:53
Using them on KR at the mo - when done.

BMWST?
19th February 2010, 08:42
Me too.

I had it for two hours today. Brilliant! Loved it.

It has shaft drive so why would anyone need a centre stand. People find the strangest things to whinge about.

Plan A is to write more later...

The VFR is not a replacement for the Blackbird. There was a replacement for the Blackbird but it wasn't passed as ready for production and missed its time slot.

Honda are considering other uses for the new engine, eg a sportsbike, but apparently nothing is actually underway.

A centre stand is a normal accessory for a motorcycle.Sidestands are for race replicas and trail bikes. ,IMHO

Swoop
19th February 2010, 08:46
Surely it can? Even a blade will do that.
The tank on the 1200 is smaller than on the 800... and the 800 can be milked out to 300kms.

Big Dave
19th February 2010, 10:45
A centre stand is a normal accessory for a motorcycle.S

First thing I remove from a bike if it's got one.

Swoop
19th February 2010, 11:15
Dave - did you notice the cylinders shutting -off?

From Pritch (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/119044-Honda-VFR1200-ride-impressions?p=1129655450#post1129655450):
The VFR is eventually to be offered with “dual clutch transmission” and “cylinder shutdown technology” but these are still being developed back in Japan.

pritch
19th February 2010, 11:31
A centre stand is a normal accessory for a motorcycle.Sidestands are for race replicas and trail bikes. ,IMHO

Not quite sure what you mean. The centre stand is an acessory for the VFR.

Some manufacturers, Honda is one, actually quote "ready to ride" weights, so the extra weight of a standard fitment centre stand would negatively effect their figures.

A centre stand might negatively effect my fuel consumption too. So it having been rendered largely redundant by the shaft I'd rather go without the unwanted dross thanks.

I haven't checked, but I don't think too many bikes come with a center stand these days?

Big Dave
19th February 2010, 12:17
I didn't notice it shutting down the pots - no.

http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2010/02/honda-vfr-1200-first-ride-photos.html

BMWST?
19th February 2010, 12:27
Not quite sure what you mean. The centre stand is an acessory for the VFR.

Some manufacturers, Honda is one, actually quote "ready to ride" weights, so the extra weight of a standard fitment centre stand would negatively effect their figures.

A centre stand might negatively effect my fuel consumption too. So it having been rendered largely redundant by the shaft I'd rather go without the unwanted dross thanks.

I haven't checked, but I don't think too many bikes come with a center stand these days?

I hope you are joking.A centre stand affecting weight and drag on a 1200 cc sports tourer?.I dont see why a centre stand is unnecessary on a shaft drive bike.If you need to remove either wheel a centre stand sure makes things easy.I wouldnt buy a bike without a centre stand.I dont care if most dont have them,every bike i have had or will have will .When i park my bike at home it goes on its centre stand.The ONLY time i use side stand is if parking with lots of other bikes and they are all on side stand too or if jumping of bike for a tag photo.The only other time would be on the ferry whilst tying down.What about checking oil levels cleaning etc.centre stand ftw.

imdying
19th February 2010, 13:00
Interesting perspective... When I buy new tyres, holding the bike up is the tyre stores problem. Mind you, have never had a bike so heavy (et) that I couldn't check the oil level by holding it up myself!

BMWST?
19th February 2010, 13:10
Interesting perspective... When I buy new tyres, holding the bike up is the tyre stores problem. Mind you, have never had a bike so heavy (et) that I couldn't check the oil level by holding it up myself!

I may be a victim of my own history.Every single bike i have had has had a centre stand.Removing the back wheel out in the back sticks to take to a gas station with a mate is 1 million times easier with a centre stand.Tubeless tires makes punctures easier to fix i guess but as i say,a bike like that should have a centre stand in my view.If ever i plonk down the cash for one i will ensure the centre stand is included.

R-Soul
19th February 2010, 13:32
Price is comparable to other big sports tourers, around $28K I'm told, which sits closely with Kawasaki Concourse, FJR1200, ST1300. Cheaper than BMW, maybe, depending what you measure against, bit cheaper than the MotoGuzzi Norge. But, for a sports tourer, it's lacking in fruit. The model BD had, had ABS (he was vague, but it was there). But no luggage, no glove boxes, no electric screen. No centre stand.

Which sort of puts it into more of the "sports" rather than "sports touring". Riding position is definitely sports touring, not sports or touring . Dunno, not quite sure where it fits. Maybe somewhere alongside the SV1000 or Bandit ? But it'sa LOT more expensive than others in that market space .
Re the ABS - is it the same ABS on the new CBR's, or is it some other lame one?

7mmWSM
19th February 2010, 14:18
Re the ABS - is it the same ABS on the new CBR's, or is it some other lame one?

No, The CBR models have E-ABS or electronic ABS, The VFR and the other Sports touring range has C-ABS or combined ABS.
The Brakes sure do work well though and I don't know too many people who are braking so hard the ABS is needed all the time - only in emergency situations

Big Dave
19th February 2010, 14:58
Vagued out - Yeah - and I went 200 words over budget on anecdotal - but the gag was worth it. T'was a first ride - didn't have it long enough for full test. Lots of people keen for a fang on it.

Brakes need one finger and feel luffley. So's the clutch.

banditrider
19th February 2010, 17:12
Re: centre stands - I'd rather have one than not. They just make little jobs that much easier. My shaftee has one but my chain driven beast doesn't...

Personally I think the bike looks fantastic in the flesh and may consider a test ride when I'm finished with the Connie (probably 3+ years and over 100,000kms away I reckon) but I'm concerned about the small tank and range. I can easily get 350km out of the Connie and it's definitely comfortable enough for that distance and more. This may not be what some need from a bike but for me I expect it of a shaft-driven tourer. I'd also want luggage standard for the price.

Elysium
19th February 2010, 21:19
Wonder if the bike will end up taking on the "Pan European" badge from the ST1300 since it looks like the VFR is it's replacement. Any case think the bike needs a nick name.

pritch
19th February 2010, 21:38
Wonder if the bike will end up taking on the "Pan European" badge from the ST1300 since it looks like the VFR is it's replacement.

As discussed elsewhere, Honda are talking more along the line of "gaps in the range" and new markets. The world economic situation must be rather worse than we thought if the new VFR is to replace the existing VFR, the Blackbird and the ST1300. Personally having ridden it, and been very favourably impressed, I wouldn't consider it directly comparible to any of those bikes. But then I'm not on the Board of Directors at Honda.

Blackbird
20th February 2010, 06:42
As discussed elsewhere, Honda are talking more along the line of "gaps in the range" and new markets. The world economic situation must be rather worse than we thought if the new VFR is to replace the existing VFR, the Blackbird and the ST1300. Personally having ridden it, and been very favourably impressed, I wouldn't consider it directly comparible to any of those bikes. But then I'm not on the Board of Directors at Honda.

"Gaps in the range" is probably a reasonable statement, even if originally a possibly unintentional one by Honda. It's sufficiently different not to be a replacement for any of the models you mention. Whether the curent owners of those models see it as a logical progression is a moot point. With the 'bird being out of production, it will be interesting to see if existing 'bird owners go that way. I'm still a member of 3 international 'bird sites and the initial reaction is underwhelming. Perhaps sales will have to come from non-Honda owners. In any event, it's going to be an interesting few months.

Big Dave
20th February 2010, 06:56
I've done equal saddle time on a Blackbird and a VFR1200 now.

Personally I didn't rate the Blackbird. Nice engine, but found it uncomfortable and didn't speak to me. Sorry, just didn't.

VFR1200 I would have its babies.

Blackbird
20th February 2010, 07:55
I've done equal saddle time on a Blackbird and a VFR1200 now.

Personally I didn't rate the Blackbird. Nice engine, but found it uncomfortable and didn't speak to me. Sorry, just didn't.

VFR1200 I would have its babies.

Exactly the reverse for me! One of my riding partners who is around the same height as you had to sell his 'bird after 18 months from new because it killed his knees.

Big Dave
20th February 2010, 13:06
I'd actually own a Speed Triple now if I fitted on one.

Blackbird
20th February 2010, 13:18
I'd actually own a Speed Triple now if I fitted on one.

Hahaha - there's penalties at both ends of the height scale, not just shortarses like me!!!

HenryDorsetCase
22nd February 2010, 11:18
I'd actually own a Speed Triple now if I fitted on one.

I would pay good money to see you riding a Street Triple (which fits me like they measured me and built it for me......) Speed Triple as a VERY high seat: presumably its the origami fold "reverse your knees" posture that irks?

Big Dave
22nd February 2010, 11:30
'It ain't the heat it's the humility.' - Berra, Yogi.

It's doable. Just needs the collar, big red nose and shoes to complete the look though.

Blackbird
22nd February 2010, 12:10
Dave,

From your perspective as a rider, journalist and knowledge of the industry, what sort of rider do you see buying the VFR? For example, the type of machine they might be riding now. No hidden catches to this question, the bike doesn't quite fit what you might call "established" categories and I was just curious.

Big Dave
22nd February 2010, 12:25
It's best fit would be as a good all round bike for a couple - that like to go away for the occasional weekend and annual tour. Plus a regular Sunday blast.
It commutes, sports, tours and looks just fine - really anyone with that kind of spend looking for a very nice motorcycle.

HenryDorsetCase
22nd February 2010, 16:09
Dave,

From your perspective as a rider, journalist and knowledge of the industry, what sort of rider do you see buying the VFR? For example, the type of machine they might be riding now. No hidden catches to this question, the bike doesn't quite fit what you might call "established" categories and I was just curious.


suit you, Sir!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1fMf8CB7jE

Ixion
22nd February 2010, 17:38
It's best fit would be as a good all round bike for a couple - that like to go away for the occasional weekend and annual tour. Plus a regular Sunday blast.
It commutes, sports, tours and looks just fine - really anyone with that kind of spend looking for a very nice motorcycle.


Going to need uggage. And a longr range tank. After market may get into that.

Big Dave
22nd February 2010, 17:50
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiwirider/4368405717

If - as reported elsewhere - the Fuel range is +/- 250km that is satisfactory for 'normal' NZ touring. Particularly for 2-up.

banditrider
22nd February 2010, 18:13
Any other big-bore shaft-drive tourers with that lousy a range? Would be enough to put me off.

pritch
22nd February 2010, 18:16
Going to need uggage. And a longr range tank. After market may get into that.

Shit oh dear Ixion where do you live? The VFR has got a bloody site better tank range than the 15L tank gives my S4R. That just means that I have to pay attention to what the gas level is doing, it doesn't mean I have to stay home.

Ducati aren't generally noted for their huge tank range but their Owners club has twice toured the South Island. Some of the Rusty Nuts type dudes might want more, but 18.5L should be enough for most riders.

AllanB
22nd February 2010, 18:18
Honda is bringing in hard bags and a top box $2-3k total I heard. Personally I think the side bags should have been supplied with the bike within it's existing price.

When talking to a Honda man about the price he very wisely said the following to me.
Motorcycling has become something of a luxury interest or lifestyle, and if you consider other interests such as boating where someone thinks nothing of dropping $29k on a boat engine (engine only the boats extra!) and then using that boat only a limited number of weekends a year, the price of the Honda represents excellent value.

I thought that was interesting as I know a few people with nice boats who run them maybe a total of 4 weeks a year and they have a shit load more than $29k invested into them.

Big Dave
22nd February 2010, 19:24
I paid almost two large for the hard luggage on my Buell - per $ - probably my worst investment ever.
A Ventura option would have been far more commensurate with the use it's received.

imdying
23rd February 2010, 09:50
You guys worry about money too much, it's only good for spending.

Big Dave
23rd February 2010, 10:21
Not the point - In the fullness of time - I would rather have spent the last of the budget on an exhaust system.

Devil
23rd February 2010, 12:34
Ok so I saw the VFR at Paeroa. Cant get over the looks. As someone else said, tail looks tidy, but forward of that *bleagh*.

TerminalAddict
23rd February 2010, 12:36
It's best fit would be as a good all round bike for a couple - that like to go away for the occasional weekend and annual tour. Plus a regular Sunday blast.
It commutes, sports, tours and looks just fine - really anyone with that kind of spend looking for a very nice motorcycle.

I resemble that remark !!

Big Dave
23rd February 2010, 13:32
OOOOh bugger - apostrophe fail.

Big Dave
23rd February 2010, 13:34
>>Ok so I saw the VFR at Paeroa. Cant get over the looks. As someone else said, tail looks tidy, but forward of that *bleagh*.<<

Dude - you own a BMW GS - you have voided your right to an opinion on aesthetics.

Devil
23rd February 2010, 14:10
Dude - you own a BMW GS - you have voided your right to an opinion on aesthetics.

It's a thing of beauty dammit! (GS).
Dont forget the 690... Heh.
But seriously, not a fan of the direction Honda is heading on looks. Same goes with the new blade - looks like it has been smacked in the nose.

Big Dave
23rd February 2010, 14:18
See - New blade, in white, is the nicest looking jap bike since the JPS '06 R1.

merv
23rd February 2010, 15:06
Weird thing for me and I find the same with cars, many a new model comes out and you think gee that looks awful. Give it a year or two and it looks normal, then the next change occurs and yeah gawd look at that.

Style kind of is in the eye of the beholder and in what is the norm or so it seems to me. So partly it is something to do with what you are used to.

Same goes for how things feel. Get on something different and feel how awful it is. Use if for a while, then everything else becomes weird. Human's are funny like that, having feelings and stuff.

Edsels and Studebakers are collectors items now!

imdying
23rd February 2010, 15:13
But seriously, not a fan of the direction Honda is heading on looks.The alternative is what the Italians are (or aren't depending on your perspective) doing... the 1098, looks like a cheap knock off of 916... the new MV F4, a yawn inducing rehash of a bike that was all weird styling anyway (but the fixtures lift it up high). Now having said that, I consider that to be a bit of a rough patch, the new RSV4 whilst a bit RSV looking in some ways, is still one hell of a looker. I'm glad that the Japanese (admittedly only really Honda) are still pushing forward and aren't afraid to try new things. In fairness though, a bad model would make a much larger dent on revenues to an Italian manufacturer than it would do to Honda, so perhaps being a bit staid is a reality in keeping the company afloat.

jim.cox
23rd February 2010, 15:13
Edsels and Studebakers are collectors items now!

Yeah - but they're still fugly....

Beauty is only skin deep - ugly goes right through

NZsarge
23rd February 2010, 15:22
I'd be the first to tell ya the new VFR looks like shit in photo's but I gotta say in the flesh I could live with it, apart from the fact it's a Honda...
Don't like the new Nissan GTR in photo's but in the flesh it's pretty awesome, same goes for the New Yamaha R1. Plenty of vehicles out that don't translate well in magazines but look much better in the flesh.

cheshirecat
23rd February 2010, 15:34
This might have been posted elsewhere or very old news but see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSqMl6HT-Lw)

R-Soul
23rd February 2010, 15:37
>>Ok so I saw the VFR at Paeroa. Cant get over the looks. As someone else said, tail looks tidy, but forward of that *bleagh*.<<

Dude - you own a BMW GS - you have voided your right to an opinion on aesthetics.

Dat be true

Blackbird
23rd February 2010, 16:13
You guys worry about money too much, it's only good for spending.

Boat, 4x4 to tow it and a new bike in the last 9 months. I don't worry about spending money, I worry about Mrs B cutting my throat while I'm asleep ;-).

Elysium
23rd February 2010, 16:32
>>Ok so I saw the VFR at Paeroa. Cant get over the looks. As someone else said, tail looks tidy, but forward of that *bleagh*.<<

Dude - you own a BMW GS - you have voided your right to an opinion on aesthetics.

Maybe you can tell me what the hell those pointed fangs at the front of the BMW GS's are for.

BMWST?
23rd February 2010, 20:05
Boat, 4x4 to tow it and a new bike in the last 9 months. I don't worry about spending money, I worry about Mrs B cutting my throat while I'm asleep ;-).

Cancel the life insurance while you still can

BMWST?
23rd February 2010, 20:06
Maybe you can tell me what the hell those pointed fangs at the front of the BMW GS's are for.

see you dont get it..its not fangs its a beak!

Elysium
24th February 2010, 04:09
see you dont get it..its not fangs its a beak!

Ahh you're right. I just checked out some pics of the bike and see what you mean. The pic I was looking at was from side on and made the front looks like it had two pointy things sticking out.........so does this beak do anything?

Devil
24th February 2010, 09:01
Stops shit from flying up over the front from the front wheel...
It's extended on the Adventure compared to the standard GS.

Big Dave
24th February 2010, 10:35
The one on the Buell is a beak. Stops nada.

Devil
24th February 2010, 10:53
so how does this beak do anything?

While I remember, it also directs air into the oil cooler which is immediately above it and below the headlights.

Elysium
24th February 2010, 16:38
Well got me a close look at a couple at City Honda today and have to say they look better in the flesh compared to photos in bike mags. Thought the red was the better colour but seems the silver is popular with customers according to the salesman. Can't wait till we get the automatic version into this country.

Blackbird
28th February 2010, 11:50
Can't wait till we get the automatic version into this country.

Going to buy one then?

The attached picture was on a UK Blackbird site



From the ergonomics alone, apart from a host of other differences,
It's not a 'Bird replacement,
It's not a Pan replacement,
It's not a tourer,
It's not a sports tourer,
It's a completely different new type of bike.

The VFR1200 is $29000 with luggage as an extra ($2000+)
The ST1300 Pan tourer is $24000 with luggage
The CB1300S is $17000 bare

Maybe an older person switching from a Fireblade but wanting a more comfortable performance bike will find it ideal but I'm still struggling to think what sort of person would buy one given the price, other than for the novelty of having the latest offering. Anyone here planning to splash out on one?

Big Dave
28th February 2010, 13:31
>>It's a completely different new type of bike.<<

I don't buy that - which was the motorcycle.com editor's beef. It's quite similar to a Sprint ST, A BMW K1300S, and a Kawsasaki Connie. The ergos aren't much different to a 'Busa either.

Just that it goes about producing a similar result differently.

Buyers of any of those vehicles would be worth a look.

Blackbird
28th February 2010, 14:00
>>It's a completely different new type of bike.<<

I don't buy that - which was the motorcycle.com editor's beef. It's quite similar to a Sprint ST, A BMW K1300S, and a Kawsasaki Connie. The ergos aren't much different to a 'Busa either.

Just that it goes about producing a similar result differently. Buyers of any of those vehicles would be worth a look.

Not sure whether I do or not Dave. Performance is behind a 'busa and some others, range is less. Comfort is arguably better than some for the rider although may not be up rear unless you have a short passenger. The point (I think) I'm trying to make is what would make the riders of machines which are significantly cheaper than the Honda but with similar performance part with a whole wad of extra cash :wacko:?

Technically, it's a masterpiece but is that enough to sell it in economic numbers? I really hope so as it's not good for the industry and Honda in particular if it doesn't. Having said that, history is littered with good bikes which didn't sell for many reasons. The Honda NR750 is one which springs to mind, albeit a bit extreme. Guess the next 12 months will tell.

Ixion
28th February 2010, 14:14
>>It's a completely different new type of bike.<<

I don't buy that - which was the motorcycle.com editor's beef. It's quite similar to a Sprint ST, A BMW K1300S, and a Kawsasaki Connie. The ergos aren't much different to a 'Busa either.

Just that it goes about producing a similar result differently.

Buyers of any of those vehicles would be worth a look.

But, ST is $7K cheaper. OK, no shaft drive. But 7K buys a lot of chains. Concours is about the same price but has WAY more fruit. BMW is a bit dearer to a lot dearer depending on which one, but isn't even in the same game, fruitwise.

Big Dave
28th February 2010, 14:56
Value judgments are not my domain. $7k is a lot of money to me, and I like Triumphs, but I also know riders to whom it's small change.
Then there's another older gentleman who will buy nothing else but Hondas. Because they are Hondas.
What I do suggest that if this bike is within your budget, I think it's a damn fine one.
I thought the quality of the finish and the overall panache on the vehicle somewhat justify the price.

Performance is not behind a Busa or the BMW or the Sprint on the road. They are all governed by the prevailing conditions and 141 roulette.
I'll tell you what I think it compares like track-wise after the HRC day at Hampton Downs tomorrow.

I still think the Busa has the nicest dashboard on a bike too.

Blackbird
28th February 2010, 16:00
Value judgments are not my domain......

Yep, those judgement calls are for those who are genuinely looking at shelling out on the VFR or something similar.

Performance is not behind a Busa or the BMW or the Sprint on the road. They are all governed by the prevailing conditions and 141 roulette.

You've nailed it in one:Punk: However, that's not what Marketing is all about and a lot of people want the biggest, fastest, most highly-specced bike because of the image. I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that I felt a tad apprehensive (little willy syndrome.... dropping capacity) when I sold the 'bird and bought a Street Triple. Utter bollocks of course for the reasons you cite. On the recent trip round East Cape with my mates, all with litre+bikes; the Striple gave very good account of itself and I was probably the least fatigued too.

Still..... whenever has cold logic ever sold a bike or most luxury items come to that? :innocent:

Hitcher
28th February 2010, 18:32
Still..... whenever has cold logic ever sold a bike or most luxury items come to that?

Indeed. Otherwise all sports tourer riders would own a Yamaha FJR1300.

Big Dave
28th February 2010, 19:19
198648

..................

Devil
1st March 2010, 07:50
Bahahahaha!

R-Soul
1st March 2010, 08:32
From the photos, you can see its a LOT smaller than the 'bird. And the reports on its handling are that it is not very far off the 'blade (an awesome handling bike, but a bit extreme for longer distances) , which makes sense as it is so small.

It does not have the MOST power or MOST speed - but it must have close to the most torque and best rideability in that the power is available pretty much everywhere? And lets face it 170 hp and 130Nm is not to be snorted at - especially when you combine this with very decent flickability. The opportunity to use the full 170hp (realistically) is almost never there. But the opportunity to use a muscular torque curve is everywhere (with decent power backing it up too).

Clearly Honda has aimed for riders who are used to litre sportsbikes and their sharp handling, and who are getting older and want to go for longer rides in more comfort without sacrificing too much in handling or power/torque. But also who will be content at times just keeping it in third and zoning out without having to chop and change gearing too much. A bike that is capable of slugging it out with the bikes with the mostest (overall), but which is also capable of a lazy day's riding in relative comfort.

I aint that old, but I quite like the idea of a sports tourer that can take the missus and me away for a weekend with all the luggage, but will stay with (and maybe leave behind) any of the big engined bikes on normal twisty road conditions, and even give the sports bikes run for their money on the track in the right hands.

What else would anybody actually want from a real world bike?

In a way, it has taken the best of all of the bikes mentioned, and put them together in a great package. In short, a VFR800 with real oomph. Power, handling, flickability- it just keeps the VFR tradition going really. It may not be the MOSTEST in any one thing, but it is probably second in all of them. Thats pretty impressive. In the Honda tradition, it has not gone the best bike for drag racing or track days, it has made the best bike for real workd riding. Expect a cult following from its owners.

I also get an idea that Honda has designed it as a test bed for forthcoming technologies- I expect Honda to announce new hi-tech add-ons (safety, etc) for it on a yearly basis.

The looks grow on you (and I frankly find the current google/bug eyed Kawa looks and psychotic Yamaha looks a little disturbing right now). The look conveys a commanding, no-nonsense, stable and non-belligerent presence, in the ironman mould (similar to the 'blade).

The only thing is the price. although lets face it Honda knows that if they build the right machine, and aims it at the right target market, they will come.

imdying
1st March 2010, 08:58
Anyone here planning to splash out on one?Yes, but will wait to see what the new fangled gearboxes are like. Not sure if I'd trade the blade in on it though, 80kg difference in purpose.

Big Dave
1st March 2010, 12:16
Just back from the HRC day at Hampton Downs, the VFR1200 was pulling away from the CB1000R on the back straights - thought that was impressive.

Big Dave
1st March 2010, 12:21
Talked to Honda reps at the track - No ETA on the triptronic at this stage. 'Coming.'

Big Dave
1st March 2010, 12:22
>>The looks grow on you<<

Liked it from the start. I think it's the nicest looking 'non-sports' Honda for a long time.

R-Soul
1st March 2010, 13:20
Just back from the HRC day at Hampton Downs, the VFR1200 was pulling away from the CB1000R on the back straights - thought that was impressive.

So lets face it - this bike is no slacker. And it will pull away from the other tourers on the corners - and be comfortable. Best of both worlds.

Big Dave
1st March 2010, 14:42
And it will pull away from the other tourers on the corners.

Maybe not a Concours 1400 or the K1300S. But it wouldn't get left behind either.

R-Soul
1st March 2010, 16:21
Maybe not a Concours 1400 or the K1300S. But it wouldn't get left behind either.

Well the road reports I have seen have compared its handling to a 'blade. The Concours 1400 or the K1300S are not going to stay with a blade on the corners...

It might be underpowered on teh next straight- but not by much.

Big Dave
1st March 2010, 16:35
I actually took it to mean corner exiting schtonk.

Apex speeds on the road on all of them requires self governance.

86GSXR
1st March 2010, 16:54
Had one along on a ride the other night. It certainly didn't disgrace itself over some very twisty hilly roads. It was very impressive in that environment actually and looked extremely nimble.

banditrider
1st March 2010, 17:53
Had one along on a ride the other night. It certainly didn't disgrace itself over some very twisty hilly roads. It was very impressive in that environment actually and looked extremely nimble.

Go on Al - you know you want to...

vifferman
1st March 2010, 19:55
>>The looks grow on you<<

Liked it from the start. I think it's the nicest looking 'non-sports' Honda for a long time.

'Non sports'? :confused:
Blue Wing Honda have it listed twice on their pricelist - in the Sports category and in the Touring category.

Other interesting (or perhaps not) factoids - it's ergonomics (seat/peg/bar dimensions) are almost identical to the latest VFR800.
Power output was measured by one of the bike mags at 140hp on the dyno (admittedly a model that's known to give lowish readings - it gave similar reductions to stated HP for the BMW1300).

Big Dave
1st March 2010, 20:06
'Non sports'?

Not a Fireblade - or anything with more than four 'R's in the designation.

Blackbird
7th March 2010, 15:52
Just to keep the debate going (not to mention a bit of a stir as well as an opposing view), this is a post from one of the international Blackbird sites. The You Tube video link is interesting too.


Brenda & myself dropped into Pheonix Honda to pick up the test bike which was sitting out the front of the showroom, our Super Salesman did remember me but said it was out of fuel at which time he slipped his lid on, never done up the strap & zipped out onto the main road in a short sleeved tee shirt & bare hands for a quick 1/2 mile trip to the petrol station this in about +3degrees Brrrrr (He was well hard bastard supersalesman SSM)

Ok SSM aside we were getting ready to mount the camara when back he comes our SSM said "we cant allow you to mount that Sir, company policy, so no video footage. After a slight adjustment of mirrors we fired her up & I thought it had developed a fault as if running on 3 cylinders but no, that lumpy clunky sound was how she sounded blip blip blip. Hmmmm ok so that sounds shite, into gear & off we go... smooth & the bike feels light & easy to manoeuvre as we approach the junction. Beeep shit, thats not the indicators, its the horn in its stupid place - WHY? We got rolling, onto the main road doing 30 and the first thing you feel is the buzz from that V4 right through the whole bike. Hmmmm out of the village & a real fookoff straight throttle wide open right to the limiter & yes its quick but not WOW FOOK ME quick, no quantum leap, warp speed, no fazers, Captain Kirk. Buzzzz Buzzzz from the 1200cc engine that's doing my head in, surly that should be super smooth V4 Honda Power but no Buzzz Buzzz now I'm thinking why would Mr H allow that to vibrate???? ROUNDABOUT.... Now here I can say with a big thumbs up the brakes are sharp & I want them on my bike, as we go for a surf 3 times around NICE, the VFR does feel light & drops into corners as sweet as you like. I had a play about shifting gear up & down on the roundabout & no jacking or squatting from the rear a quick flick left & give it the beans onto another long stright click it up the box into top bimble along then just nail it. She is not what you would call immediate but once on the move the speed does come & so does that BUZZZ BUZZZ. After beeping the horn yet again as we turn off the main drag onto some nice twisties and the VFR1200 feels planted throughout but then so does my bike; its a Honda what would you expect? Now at this point I should mention if like me you carry a pillion; SWMBO was sitting a lot closer to me but was sliding all over the place & did more bum shuffling in 35 mins than she does in a full on spirited ride on our bike. Wind protection from the fairing was good with very little buffet, the seating position was lower that my bike as I could plant both feet flat on the deck but did keep kicking Brenda's toes when putting my feet back on the pegs. We rode through a few sleepy villages heading for the Motorway, it was at this point it hit me that exhaust note - now I know what it sounds like... a Qualcast petrol mower to a tee. Well done Honda - a 1200cc sit & ride mower bike. We picked up the Motorway & dropped into LIE MODE......... two-up pinned wide open and show it no mercy. They say it will beat most bikes... 146mph -hmmmm dont think so. Back off & try to imagine it will go quicker than146mph then it ran out of imagination again. Ok hold on BZZZZZZZZZ BZZZZZZZZZZ nope 146mph. As we mowed our way back to the dealers & again beeped the horn we pulled up alongside our CBR1100XX Super Blackbird only to be met by SSM grinning like a Cheshire cat well say's he "WHAT ABOUT THAT" to which I replied you don't want to really know what I think about your VFR "GREAT BIKE OR WHAT" you can polish a turd but its still a TURD....to which he said I'm the only person that doesn't like it, Me "I don't care it's not for me" SSM "I sold 10 of them" Me "you told me on Thursday it was 24 & you have imagined 186mph" SSM Errr sorry yes 24 Errr 186 that's right I was out all day Friday what a great bike if you are quick you could get one before they go up in price by £700 Me "but it's cramped for a pillion & slower that my bike why would I change plus it as vibey as hell & that exhaust sounds like a mower". SSM right in front of Brenda "I don't give a shit about the pillion & I think its super smooth that V4 engive & have never felt any vibes, its a rocket ship packed with new technology & (points at my bike) that is old & out of date & they aint making a replacement for the blackbird ever so it's up to you!" Me: "Fine I'll stick with what I've got a bike thats WARPSPEED fast, those ROCKETS are so last century & can only do an imagined 146mph two up, Humm I'll get my video camara & do a bit of filming thanks" SSM stomps off. We got the video camara & were doing a bit to filming when SSM comes & pushed the VFR away to the workshop NICE........ was it something I said?
When I edit what video we did get I will post it up.

Prepared to be flamed but hey I don't give a shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcgjlBNtO4Y

Big Dave
7th March 2010, 17:14
It doesn't sound as good as the press release says it does - that's true. There aren't many bikes that do. Rune does.
I can't confirm or deny any vibration at post 120mph. Nor do I particularly care. It's not relevant here.
Pillion comfort is as individual as Pillions. They are well catered for compared to a Fireblade. Not a so a Goldwing.
The rest of it he seems to have some stick up his arse about his Blackbird - or justifying owning it somehow.

zeocen
7th March 2010, 19:15
It handles better than a Blackbird, that's a hard solid fact. Who (in New Zealand, at least) does 140mph with a pillion long enough to notice the vibrations? I personally never noticed any vibrations that were consistently noticeable. That whole "review" sounds like someone who is justifying owning an older bike and doesn't like how the VFR1200 has been named a replacement for the Blackbird by Honda, so went into nitpick mode.

It also seems like he hasn't ridden anything other than a 4cyl, like, at all - he was saying in the video he couldn't wait to get off the bike because of the exhaust/engine tone. What was he expecting of a V4?

If I had a Blackbird still, I wouldn't be rushing out to buy the VFR1200 - but at the same time I wouldn't be comparing the VFR1200's solid game performance next to the Bird either. Because it puts the Bird to shame in nearly all aspects, as one would expect from new technology and better weight distribution.

merv
7th March 2010, 20:59
From the comments of that Blackbird guy maybe he did strike a test ride on one with a problem like running on 3 cylinders or something!

quickbuck
7th March 2010, 23:22
From the comments of that Blackbird guy maybe he did strike a test ride on one with a problem like running on 3 cylinders or something!

Yup,
That's what I was thinking....

BMWST?
8th March 2010, 07:23
sounds like an f wit.Nice way to treat a brand new bike.

pritch
8th March 2010, 09:21
I went to Hawke's Bay for the weekend and when I got home the April issue of BIKE was in my letter box.
Included therein is a sport touring segment, part of which involves a comparison between the BMW K1300S, The Triumph Sprint, and the VFR1200.

And the winner is - the VFR1200.

There was also a photo of the VFR popping a wheelie but since everybody on KB knows this to be impossible it must be photochopped... :devil2:

TerminalAddict
8th March 2010, 09:56
.....Who (in New Zealand, at least) does 140mph with a pillion long enough to notice the vibrations? .......
.....


no comment ...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/51186-The-Coro-loop-ride-yesterday-3rd-June?highlight=terminaladdict

Mrs TA loved the back seat, she was happy at warp speed, and neither of us noticed any notable vibrations.

The reviewer is biased (at best); I agree the pipe looks odd but I would deal with it.

Generally I think the bike is fairly "grown up", and I feel grown up riding it.

It's on my list and is the only thing on my list (and Hamilton Honda know it .. coz they keep nagging me :D )
Although I rode an XR1200 this weekend which was an awesome barrel of fun :shifty:

Big Dave
8th March 2010, 11:26
And the winner is - the VFR1200.

Value judgements aside - the only real 'disparity' for use as a road bike is that the Triumph is $22k with ABS.

Blackbird
8th March 2010, 11:34
Value judgements aside - the only real 'disparity' for use as a road bike is that the Triumph is $22k with ABS.

Yep, and all leg-pulling aside, it's a great bit of engineering and the question will be on whether that extra $6-8k over bikes like the Triumph, FJR etc will deter customers.

NZsarge
8th March 2010, 11:40
Although I rode an XR1200 this weekend which was an awesome barrel of fun :shifty:

You did'nt get held up by an accident just north of Waipawa did you?

NZsarge
8th March 2010, 11:46
Yep, and all leg-pulling aside, it's a great bit of engineering and the question will be on whether that extra $6-8k over bikes like the Triumph, FJR etc will deter customers.

Yeah the biggest thing against it is it's poor value as a whole, if it had come with the luggage in the $29k price tag it'd still be a really expensive bike but closer to the mark. The more I see it the more I accept the looks, it's not too bad really, haven't had the chance to ride one yet but at the price I don't even think i'd bother even if I was in the market. IMHO it should be priced at $26k max! And that's with luggage included.

HenryDorsetCase
8th March 2010, 13:55
no comment ...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/51186-The-Coro-loop-ride-yesterday-3rd-June?highlight=terminaladdict

Mrs TA loved the back seat, she was happy at warp speed, and neither of us noticed any notable vibrations.

The reviewer is biased (at best); I agree the pipe looks odd but I would deal with it.

Generally I think the bike is fairly "grown up", and I feel grown up riding it.

It's on my list and is the only thing on my list (and Hamilton Honda know it .. coz they keep nagging me :D )
Although I rode an XR1200 this weekend which was an awesome barrel of fun :shifty:

you need one of each I reckon. VFR1200 and an XR1200 for those days when you want to be a hooligan.

scracha
8th March 2010, 20:45
Had one along on a ride the other night. It certainly didn't disgrace itself over some very twisty hilly roads. It was very impressive in that environment actually and looked extremely nimble.
I finally saw one of these Viffers. Fat, heavy, ugly, sounds like shit. I loved my old VFR but Honda have seriously lost the plot. Sack the whole fuckin development team. Next thing you know they'll give up making motorcycle and concentrate on t-shirts, mugs and aftershave.

TerminalAddict
8th March 2010, 20:49
I finally saw one of these Viffers. Fat, heavy, ugly, sounds like shit. I loved my old VFR but Honda have seriously lost the plot. Sack the whole fuckin development team. Next thing you know they'll give up making motorcycle and concentrate on t-shirts, mugs and aftershave.

you can get aftershave from Honda??? wicked :Punk:

Big Dave
8th March 2010, 21:14
I finally saw one of these Viffers. Fat, heavy, ugly, sounds like shit. I loved my old VFR but Honda have seriously lost the plot. Sack the whole fuckin development team. Next thing you know they'll give up making motorcycle and concentrate on t-shirts, mugs and aftershave.


When a TDM owner reacts like that - you know they are probably on the right track.

scracha
8th March 2010, 21:34
When a TDM owner reacts like that - you know they are probably on the right track.
Best bikes I've ever owned. 1) TDM900. 2)TDM850

Face it, the VFR1200 is hideous. Did they let the PC800 design crew loose again? Shit, I take it back. I'd rather be seen (again) on my mate's PC800 than a VFR12, they're THAT bad.

Why hasn't this lardy arsed 'uber tourer' no panniers as standard?

No doubt balding shortassed men who like wearing black will be queuing up to trade their blackbirds and hayabusas in for one.

R-Soul
8th March 2010, 21:38
Best bikes I've ever owned. 1) TDM900. 2)TDM850

Face it, the VFR1200 is hideous. Did they let the PC800 design crew loose again? Shit, I take it back. I'd rather be seen (again) on my mate's PC800 than a VFR12, they're THAT bad.

Why hasn't this lardy arsed 'uber tourer' no panniers as standard?

No doubt balding shortassed men who like wearing black will be queuing up to trade their blackbirds and hayabusas in for one.

Well that is exactly the target market...

Blackbird
9th March 2010, 06:12
No doubt balding shortassed men who like wearing black will be queuing up to trade their blackbirds and hayabusas in for one.

Tosser:laugh:

Actually, 'bird owners around the world (including this short,balding one) will NOT be queuing up to buy it as it's NOT a Blackbird replacement. There's almost universal disappointment from that quarter.

I suppose the market will have to come from Suzuki owners:innocent:

Big Dave
9th March 2010, 06:34
Best bikes I've ever owned. 1) TDM900. 2)TDM850

Face it, the VFR1200 is hideous.

I love the smell of irony in the mornings.

Big Dave
9th March 2010, 17:35
This BTW is not to demean the tediums - good bikes agreed - just that they are not a style that appeals to many riders.

Personally I find the VFR quite attractive aesthetically, the Yamaha....well, not so much, but at least we all know they are only ridden by Adonis.

HenryDorsetCase
9th March 2010, 19:29
This BTW is not to demean the tediums - good bikes agreed - just that they are not a style that appeals to many riders.

Personally I find the VFR quite attractive aesthetically, the Yamaha....well, not so much, but at least we all know they are only ridden by Adonis.

That greek dude that owns the kebab shop up the way? I knew there was good money in it. He should get a top box and do deliveries, then he can get the GST back and claim the depreciation on his tax. Get it signwritten too.

scracha
9th March 2010, 21:03
This BTW is not to demean the tediums - good bikes agreed - just that they are not a style that appeals to many riders.
.

Fair point...I mean...cripes....I like odd looking bikes. Multistradas, Super Tenere's, BMW Rocksters, etc. Being cheap, reliable, low maintenance (ok...ZERO maintenance) and super-practical is a real bonus.

I loved my 1986 VFR and was just hoping Honda would bring it back to its original roots. Uber smooth, uber cool sound, sportsbike fast and low weight. Would have rather seen a pneumatic valved VFR600 that revved to 20,000 RPM than the VFR1200.

Feel kinda let-down ....a bit like the new Super Tenere.

Big Dave
9th March 2010, 21:12
.a bit like the new Super Tenere.

Yerrrs. I'll ride it before deciding - but the photos appear too much GS and not enough Dorsoduro for me. But we'll be objective before deciding..
I'll be well down the list for a burn on that puppy anyway.

R-Soul
10th March 2010, 14:32
Uber smooth, uber cool sound, sportsbike fast and low weight.


Well actually it subjectively is these innit?

The sound is supposedly good at higher revs (I mentioned that it is muted, car like, at low revs - maybe not a bad thing when you're idling outside your neighour's window at 7 on a sunday morning before a ride).

It is a great handler, and has plenty of poke (it is a 1200 after all- lots more than the 800- what 170hp aint enough?). And although it has not such low weight as to compete with sports bikes (because after all it is not a sports bike), it is less than a Blackbird or one of these other supersize tourers like the ZX14 Concours...

its all perspective isnt it? Glass half full/half empty scenario. You can look at it as a comfortable sports bike with close to eth power of hypersports bike, that comfortable but heavier than nrmal, or an agile, small tourer tha doesnt give much away in terms of power (if at all). Now I am not actually seeing the half empty side here.

The only critique is the small tank and maybe lack of fruit like the tourers have got. Although they will probably launch a full tourer based on the same engine and frame later though - with larger fairing etc.

Blackbird
10th March 2010, 14:38
And although it has not such low weight as to compete with sports bikes (because after all it is not a sports bike), it is less than a Blackbird or one of these other supersize tourers like the ZX14 Concours... .

How do you work that out then?

VFR 1200, 267 kg.
Blackbird 227 kg.
Concours 275 kg.

The 'bird is the lightest of the 3 by a fair margin.