To all those people who voted National.

[Flip]

Dol!

Homer

[hayd3n]

voted bill n ben
i mean what worse could they do?

[325rocket]

yeah i am really disappointed with how its all turned out

wont make that mistake again

[RentaTriumph]

Yes have to admit I was a 1st time Nat voter. I wanted to see that hairy legged social engineering lesbo gone.

[P38]

Your not wrong there.

I'm looking forward to the National Party being relegated back to the opposition benches.

Were not going to forget this in a hurry thats for sure.

[James Deuce]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.

[inorganic]

If only national hadnt blown the best decade in New Zealands economic history... errr ... umm ... oh that was the other lot.
If only kiwis werent trained from birth to look for free stuff from the gummint.
If only the world economy was a socialist fairy world where there were no bills to be paid and we could all earn 200k for a 15 hour week.
if only people werent morons

[rachprice]

Ha! I didn't!
I voted Labour!

[Sidewinder]

voted bill n ben
i mean what worse could they do?
thats what i did aswell!. didnt think they would get anywhere and if they did it would of been fucking funnie

[325rocket]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.

true but its not a single issue for me. its more the 'this is what we want to do so we're doing it' attitude. to be fair i still think John Key could do good things but Bill and Nick worry me.

[hayd3n]

thats what i did aswell!. didnt think they would get anywhere and if they did it would of been fucking funnie

and ill vote bill and ben next time aswell i make a lil box at the top of the paper if they arnt running

[Laxi]

it's more than a single issue, even if you can forget the ACC, the gst, kiwi saver....so on
Keys shown that even though he works for us, when it comes to public oppinion he just flips the taxpayer a big:finger: my vote wont worry them though, I never voted for the wankers in the 1st place

[rustic101]

Dol!

Homer

Vote National. Like any democratic or business process/ change I do not always have to agree with what is proposed. What I can do is try and influence a change to different to what they want.. In this particular situation I will be fighting tooth and nail to have no increase.

It has started with us, moved to sexual abuse victims, now cars so who is next?? There are common sense alternatives. We just need to keep the foot on their throat so they understand we the people actually dictate how they Govern

[MadDuck]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.

Its not just the ACC issue now though James. You should have heard the crap Mr Smyth was spouting about the ETS last night.

I am sure the list will get bigger.

[ManDownUnder]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.

Thank Christ for the voice of common sense!

What he said!

[325rocket]

voted bill n ben
i mean what worse could they do?


thats what i did aswell!. didnt think they would get anywhere and if they did it would of been fucking funnie


and ill vote bill and ben next time aswell i make a lil box at the top of the paper if they arnt running



if only people werent morons

..touché..

[Maha]

Cant really blame those who voted National for whats going on right now. They voted the right way in thier own minds at the time.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing (this ACC issue is a great expose' of that)
Some poeple early on blamed Labour for the way things are now, well ya cant really blame them either. They are not the ones full of shit at the moment. Labour had nothing to do with the levy increase proposal, thats all National.

It was said yesterday that a KB Poll (laughable I know) showed that 70% of those that voted would vote National. Now to prove what a crock KB polls are, if 100 people voted on the poll, that would only be 70 voters out of how many members?.... na sorry, 70% sounds alot (and it would be if 4000 people voted) but they didnt. It has a margin of era of 25.3 %...:confused:

PS: I have never voted National.

[Mully]

true but its not a single issue for me. its more the 'this is what we want to do so we're doing it' attitude.

Umm, cos Labour didn't have that attitude?

At all??

Really??

I love the way people still think politicians (of whatever colour) give a rat's arse about the populace.

All of them. ALL OF THEM are there for themselves and/or their mates/whanau.

Sure, they'll make all the right noises about "improving New Zealand" and blah blah fucking blah, but they are all about getting their snouts in the trough and lining their pockets.

Dont for a second think that had Labour won the election in 2008 that the roles now wouldn't be reversed.

ACC would still be trying to rort motorcyclists (as I recall, Labour presided over the increases in rego last time) and National would be attacking Labour.

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT - INFIGHTING AMONGST MOTORCYCLISTS. DIVIDE AND CONQUER. THIS IS GOVERNMENT STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE.

The more we sit here going "Red/Blue" or "National/Labour" the more they love it - cos it gets us off Smithys back and he can keep bullshitting the populace unhindered.

[James Deuce]

See where I'm going with this? You're all thinking about other things because of the impetus provided by a single issue. The broader picture is expanding for all of us and how the wheels of power turn is much more obvious thanks to poor old Dr Smith being given a right royal wake up call every time he appears in public. You can do this with other issues, other lobby groups, other threatened segments of NZ society.

Maybe NZ's history of exploitative governance is at an end thanks to the efforts of a bunch of stinking bikers.

Anything that makes Kiwis politically aware is good in my book, even if I am "forced" to buy an enormously powerful motorbike and take bag lunches and ride public transport all week, just so I can have a decent weekend ride and really use up that ACC levy increase.

Just remember how much power proportional voting systems can give you.

[The Everlasting]

Yeah,had no idea when voting that they would be this terrible. Won't make that mistake again!!

[Pussy]

Umm, cos Labour didn't have that attitude?

At all??

Really??

I love the way people still think politicians (of whatever colour) give a rat's arse about the populace.

All of them. ALL OF THEM are there for themselves and/or their mates/whanau.

Sure, they'll make all the right noises about "improving New Zealand" and blah blah fucking blah, but they are all about getting their snouts in the trough and lining their pockets.

Dont for a second think that had Labour won the election in 2008 that the roles now wouldn't be reversed.

ACC would still be trying to rort motorcyclists (as I recall, Labour presided over the increases in rego last time) and National would be attacking Labour.

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT - INFIGHTING AMONGST MOTORCYCLISTS. DIVIDE AND CONQUER. THIS IS GOVERNMENT STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE.

The more we sit here going "Red/Blue" or "National/Labour" the more they love it - cos it gets us off Smithys back and he can keep bullshitting the populace unhindered.

Spot on, Mully.
We need to be unified as motorcyclists on this

[Ixion]

Cant really blame those who voted National for whats going on right now. They voted the right way in thier own minds at the time.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing (this ACC issue is a great expose' of that)
Some poeple early on blamed Labour for the way things are now, well ya cant really blame them either. They are not the ones full of shit at the moment. Labour had nothing to do with the levy increase proposal, thats all National.

It was said yesterday that a KB Poll (laughable I know) showed that 70% of those that voted would vote National. Now to prove what a crock KB polls are, if 100 people voted on the poll, that would only be 70 voters out of how many members?.... na sorry, 70% sounds alot (and it would be if 4000 people voted) but they didnt. It has a margin of era of 25.3 %...:confused:

PS: I have never voted National.

7% margin of error on that one.

[p.dath]

Dol!

Homer

The only worse decision would have been to put any other party into majority Government.

Overall they have done a great job steering us through the difficult times, and to be blunt, there was a lot to fix up.

I don't think I would vote a party out on a single issue. That would be a very blinkered view to adopt.

[Mr Merde]

See where I'm going with this? You're all thinking about other things because of the impetus provided by a single issue. The broader picture is expanding for all of us and how the wheels of power turn is much more obvious thanks to poor old Dr Smith being given a right royal wake up call every time he appears in public. You can do this with other issues, other lobby groups, other threatened segments of NZ society.

Maybe NZ's history of exploitative governance is at an end thanks to the efforts of a bunch of stinking bikers.

Anything that makes Kiwis politically aware is good in my book, even if I am "forced" to buy an enormously powerful motorbike and take bag lunches and ride public transport all week, just so I can have a decent weekend ride and really use up that ACC levy increase.

Just remember how much power proportional voting systems can give you.

Slightly of topic but an example of what a few people with their backs up can do.

I am a target shooter. The Police have recently decided to reinterpret the laws as to what firearms we can own under what licence. This is not up to them as the Firearms Act is very specific. One of us got his back up and started talking to a few more of us. This person with the support of like minded people have taken the NZ Police to the high courts in both Palmerston North and in Wellington. We are in the 5th week now of waiting for the judicial review to be posted. Has to be done by the end of the week. The Police themselves are not very confident of their sucess. Existing shooting bodies are now starting to contact this fledgling group and attempt to take some of the credit. They talk now of "our law suite".

About 100 of us have taken a multi million dollar business (they are a business) to court over their "illegal" actions and are in a very strong winning position.

All it takes is for those agrieved toi actually walk the walk.

[Marmoot]

The problem in the last government wasn't really the labour voters.

It was the green voters.

[sammcj]

every bloody time National gets in...

I don't like Nation or Labour but seriously, every bloody time the Nat's get in theres a real feeling the govt. is out of touch.

[sammcj]

Don't think this has already been posted, but during such sad times I think it's important to sit back and remember it's important to make fun of those we can't bloody stand!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Art/Carvings-sculpture/Other/auction-250472279.htm

Portrait of New Zealand's environment minister Nick Smith by Sculptor Sam Mahon.

Medium: Cow manure.

The sculpture is light and hollow and highly polished. It sits on a steel stand slightly right of centre.

Pickup would be available



* Winning bid: $3,080.00

Feel free to follow up with more venting ;)

[Flip]

The only worse decision would have been to put any other party into majority Government.

Overall they have done a great job steering us through the difficult times, and to be blunt, there was a lot to fix up.

I don't think I would vote a party out on a single issue. That would be a very blinkered view to adopt.

The problem is they are not listening.

[MikeL]

Yes have to admit I was a 1st time Nat voter. I wanted to see that hairy legged social engineering lesbo gone.
And aren't you happy? When I was young that was called cutting off your nose to spite your face...
As I've written several times, the vitriolic hatred that Helen Clark has evoked in white middle-class males went (and goes) way beyond policies and principles. You just can't hack the fact that she is not only just about the most intelligent prime minister this country has ever had, but a (gasp!) woman (which is why the constant snide remarks about her sexuality (well, if she's a lesbo she's not a real woman, is she?). As for all this nonsense about 'social engineering" - that's just another buzz word to hide either prejudice or stupidity. If you don't think governments have any business telling us how to live our lives, then you should be protesting against compulsory education, minimum age for employment, laws against slavery and so on. I wrote before that the correct definition of "social engineering" is simply "any regulation that I don't happen to be believe in". And if you think that your hopes for the National government to put an end to all that are realistic, think again:" it's an "aspirational goal", not a realistic one (If this government deserves to be remembered for anything, it should be for that single phrase, which just about sums up the whole muddle-headed mess).

Some of us at least were clear-sighted enough a year ago to sound a warning, but saying "I told you so" is cold comfort. If disenchantment is starting to set in already, just think what you'll all be moaning about this time next year...

[sammcj]

And aren't you happy?

Helen: Smart but didn't do enough

John: Slimy and did all the wrong things


He just doesn't look like someone who should be trusted with something you care about!

[short-circuit]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing .

But foresight is more valuable.

This was most predictable - as are the economic reforms on the horizon, tax cuts, holding out on capital gains tax, stripping of back of social and public services, voucher systems in schools, bulk funding, asset stripping, user pays etc

Even if they aint attempting to privatise it this term, they definitely will the next. And the problem is that it takes 20 years to build, 3 years to undermine and 6 years to completely dismantle.

And most people seem to memory of the average amnesia sufferer

[sammcj]

And the problem is that it takes 20 years to build, 3 years to undermine and 6 years to completely dismantle

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/image-key-privatisation.jpg

[Oakie]

I voted National. If there was an election tomorrow I'd vote that way again. The ACC thing sucks but I've never voted based on one issue and won't start now.

[NighthawkNZ]

Motorcycle Political Party
http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz/docs/mpp.pdf

And I working on MANZ
Motorcycling Association New Zealand

[short-circuit]

I voted National. If there was an election tomorrow I'd vote that way again. The ACC thing sucks but I've never voted based on one issue and won't start now.

Yeah - from memory you're an "human resources" manager or is it "consultant" these days? Of course you voted for the business party. You're anti-worker by job description

[jedi]

I voted National. If there was an election tomorrow I'd vote that way again. The ACC thing sucks but I've never voted based on one issue and won't start now.

I voted National also. However this issue alone is enough to sway me to vote against them.
Also it seems that any form of referendum, submissions and alike are ignored. Pity, because I thought democracy was part of our constitution.

JK also disappoints me, he's a gutless wimp diplomat with no spine.

[Forest]

I voted National and I've been pretty disappointed by the pricks.

I'll be voting ACT in the next election.

[RentaTriumph]

As I've written several times, the vitriolic hatred that Helen Clark has evoked in white middle-class males went (and goes) way beyond policies and principles. You just can't hack the fact that she is not only just about the most intelligent prime minister this country has ever had, but a (gasp!) woman (which is why the constant snide remarks about her sexuality (well, if she's a lesbo she's not a real woman, is she?). As for all this nonsense about 'social engineering" - that's just another buzz word to hide either prejudice or stupidity.

Go fuck yerself you gay boy.

[Headbanger]

I voted National, and thank fuck we got rid of Labour.

At the moment I'm pretty fuckin worked up, and at this time I could go either way (no, that's not a reference to mansex) But I'll see how we (meaning we the people of NZ) have fared when the next election rolls around.

[oldrider]

Ha! I didn't!
I voted Labour!

OK, but what's the difference? :confused:

This is a socialist country facing problems created by socialist policies!

Politicians know the answers are to the right of centre but are afraid to reach for them! :no:

They (the politicians) are dependant on left wing voters in order to gain/retain office! :mellow:

The whole situation would be funny, if it wasn't so bloody tragic! :shifty:

Watch John Key turn himself inside out trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth at the same time! (Trying to have a bob each way)

He really wants to keep the photo opportunities rolling! (he loves that part of the job) :jerry:

But has to shape up as prime minister as well, what a bummer! :doh: That's why he is using Don Brash as his fall guy! :stupid:

Good cop, bad cop, it's an old trick but it might just work! :eek: Yeah, right! (Tui anyone?)

[short-circuit]

OK, but what's the difference? :confused:

This is a socialist country facing problems created by socialist policies!

Politicians know the answers are to the right of centre but are afraid to reach for them! :no:

They (the politicians) are dependant on left wing voters in order to gain/retain office! :mellow:

The whole situation would be funny, if it wasn't so bloody tragic! :shifty:

Watch John Key turn himself inside out trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth at the same time! (Trying to have a bob each way)

He really wants to keep the photo opportunities rolling! (he loves that part of the job) :jerry:

But has to shape up as prime minister as well, what a bummer! :doh: That's why he is using Don Brash as his fall guy! :stupid:

Good cop, bad cop, it's an old trick but it might just work! :eek: Yeah, right! (Tui anyone?)


:stupid: alright. Looking forward to Santa visiting again this month?

[James Deuce]

He IS Santa.

[Motu]

Interesting that pre election last year this site was staunchly pro National.I never supported Labour,but just to voice some doubts about National and John Key would get you shouted down as a commie Labour supporter.There were a couple of rabid National supporters dripping venom,who seem to be mysteriously absent these days.Also one prominent member who said privatisation of ACC was a good thing....strangely absent from ACC discussions.

I think there were a lot of first time voting sheep here last year.

[scissorhands]

Two gangs who dress the same, talk the same and even under a microscope, they look the same.

One spends one cuts
One is white one is black
Ones rich ones poor
The political paradigm is such a boor!

[gijoe1313]

"I'm not a trout, and I'm not stupid!" :msn-wink:

[Blue TLS]

The only worse decision would have been to put any other party into majority Government.

Overall they have done a great job steering us through the difficult times, and to be blunt, there was a lot to fix up.

I don't think I would vote a party out on a single issue. That would be a very blinkered view to adopt.

Rodney hit the nail on the head when he said j k doesnt do anything so far he has done absolutely nothing and i challenge you to come up with anything at all that he has done for the benefit of the country and not his own pockets if i ever have the dishonour of meeting him no amount of bodygaurds will be able to stop the first punch

[Brian d marge]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.


Single > as in one ,,, They have pushed soo much through under urgency ,,,that Lockwood smith ,,,has been ordering speed by the truck load ,,,just to keep awake

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

And while Labour has ( has to ..its name is labour ) feelings for the working stiff , National are typically for business, BOTH OWE MONEY OVERSEAS

doesn't matter Who you vote in ,,,,

There are some people behind the scenes who sway the Governments agenda

Kerr Gibbs with Roger as the mouth piece were some famous ones

But

We the people need to tell them the government that WE the people want to return to
a fair day pay for a fair days work , 3 squares and an affordable roof

I cannot see anything wrong with that ??

Well if overseas people and corporates drive up house prices and use overseas borrowing to fund that , and as a nation we cannot afford the repayments ,,, it isnt going to happen ...( mind you if we export,,,everything )

well my company better pay me a bucket load of Zambian dollars ( they come in a wheel barrow from the local bank ) in order to put a simple roof over my families head

Capital gains tax and a severe curbing on property ,,,would be one start ,,,,( very unpopular ) , and a curb on secondary taxes , such as student loans and speeding

Dont get me started on SOES ,,,( great idea BTW,,,but morally wrong )

Stephen

[slofox]

National are typically for business,

Correct. We should not be surprised at what National is doing. They are doing exactly what they should do - that is, represent the interests of their supporters.

The fact that their support base is essentially business oriented should come as no surprise to any of us - certainly has not surprised me. I heard it said recently that "National is the political wing of the Business Round Table." This may well overstate the position somewhat but it does contain a kernel of truth.

The fact that big business wants the political scene pushed in a direction that will enable more profits for them should also be no surprise - that is what it's all about for them. So ACC will be privatized whether we like it or not because the business interests behind National want it so. And we can all go get fucked as far as they are concerned. Profit rules for these guys.

We have to remember that no matter what colour the governing party is, they are there to represent the interests of their own support base. Which is exactly what National is doing, is exactly what Labour did before them and is exactly what any of the current crop of political parties would do if given power.

[MikeL]

Go fuck yerself you gay boy.

Ouch. Hit a nerve, did I??

[Oakie]

Yeah - from memory you're an "human resources" manager or is it "consultant" these days? Of course you voted for the business party. You're anti-worker by job description

Nah. 'Human Resources Coordinator'. I'm the fella who hires people and then works my arse off to make sure they are well trained, well treated and happy in their job.

[Swoop]

If liarbour were not such a bunch of self-serving, egocentric, narccisists' who were NOT at the puppet-strings of the lunatic fringe greenies, then we would not have a national government that was under the puppet-strings of the maori party.

Nappies and gubbinments get changed for the same reasons.



As for Heilen Klerke being "not only just about the most intelligent prime minister this country has ever had..." Who is your drug supplier?

[oldrider]

Where ever did some of you people get the idea that Liabour had the interest of the working classes at heart? :shifty:

The only interest they have, is in getting votes, period! :shutup:

Look how long it took Maori to wake up to them! (a work in progress, out of the frying pan into the fire)

[EgliHonda]

Where ever did some of you people get the idea that Liabour had the interest of the working classes at heart? :shifty:



Fully agree, imagine how the labour party founding members would feel at the shabby treatment of west coasters? I think when helen called them feral inbreds she cut any remaining strings tying her party to the 'working class', and signalled they really were a party of chardonnay sociallists, made up of failed schoolteachers and career academics...

Had great hopes National would be different, not too happy of late however...

[T.W.R]

Where ever did some of you people get the idea that Liabour had the interest of the working classes at heart? :shifty:



You saying the Natzis have?

:laugh:

[Mully]

Had great hopes National would be different, not too happy of late however...

There's your first problem. Same face, different mask.


You saying the Natzis have?

Where did he say anything of the sort?

No politician gives a shit about the "average" New Zealander. Not a single one. They probably did, way back when, but those times are long gone.

The only way to get what you (as a voter) actually want, is to look at the self-interests of the various parties and vote for the one which most closely aligns with your own at that time.

The idea of voting National, Labour or Green just because "you always have" or "my parents always did" shows that democracy is not for the people at all. (I know someone who always votes for the Opposition - makes just as much sense as blindy voting for one colour)

Meh, Blue, Red, Green, whatever. They're ALL the fucking same. Come 2011, I'll decide what's important to me and mine, and vote accordingly.

[EgliHonda]

The idea of voting National, Labour or Green just because "you always have" or "my parents always did" shows that democracy is not for the people at all. (I know someone who always votes for the Opposition - makes just as much sense as blindy voting for one colour)

Meh, Blue, Red, Green, whatever. They're ALL the fucking same. Come 2011, I'll decide what's important to me and mine, and vote accordingly.

Exactly...I have always voted what was best for me at the time, fair to say that as a student I voted differently than as a heavily mortgaged, taxpaying parent. I think the two large parties have yet to realise that people's voting habits are changing. National has severly underestimated who actually ride bikes here I think...

[pzkpfw]

"Dol" ?!

Well, that's smrt.

[Mully]

By the way,
Kiwisaver is privatised. It's more privatised than the Bank deposits which have a Government guarantee. Any new Super schemes almost have to be now. An aging population dictates that people can't rely on the State to provide in their old age any longer.

Health is becoming more privatised all the time - personally, I have private Health Insurance. Hospitals have KPIs and a heavier management structure than most private organisations wouls get away with. This is part of the problem, they are partly run like businesses but with no business leadership.

Education? Most Universities are run like private organisations now anyway. And look at the number of private "institutes" now - shouldn't that be more structured? I admit that I don't see a place for privatisation in primary or secondary education at this point, but if it could be set up well (and that's a big "if") it might be feasible.

[T.W.R]

There's your first problem. Same face, different mask.



Where did he say anything of the sort?

No politician gives a shit about the "average" New Zealander. Not a single one. They probably did, way back when, but those times are long gone.

The only way to get what you (as a voter) actually want, is to look at the self-interests of the various parties and vote for the one which most closely aligns with your own at that time.

The idea of voting National, Labour or Green just because "you always have" or "my parents always did" shows that democracy is not for the people at all. (I know someone who always votes for the Opposition - makes just as much sense as blindy voting for one colour)

Meh, Blue, Red, Green, whatever. They're ALL the fucking same. Come 2011, I'll decide what's important to me and mine, and vote accordingly.

The implication was there in John's comment :wacko:

wow aren't you smart..... you should check back to pre election threads and realise you're just echoing what some of us said back then :blink:

[MisterD]

If you want to wreck an economy, elect a Labour government.

Every time, here or in the UK...and it looks like Obama wants to turn the Dems into a Labour party too...

[Headbanger]

National has severly underestimated who actually ride bikes here I think...

And in the bigger picture, National are more popular then ever and are prepared to upset a shitload of people to do what they think has to be done.They have a buffer.

[spacemonkey]

The problem in the last government wasn't really the labour voters.

It was the green voters.



Ah dude..... the green party were not in government last time around. They were in opposition after Helen gave them the shaft. ;)

[pritch]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.

That's absolutely true.

So, of course, I'll just find another couple of issues to justify changing my vote next time. 'Cause it will be changing...

[Marmoot]

Ah dude..... the green party were not in government last time around. They were in opposition after Helen gave them the shaft. ;)

Mate that is the biggest deluded bullshit I've ever heard in this side of the 21st century.

Cheers for the laugh.

Emission Trading Scheme (pay for your fart and air you breath)
Child Discipline Act (biggest bullshit ever)
Shower restriction (well, almost)
Home Insulation Fund (at least they have one thing right)
New Zealand Cycleway (still fail)
Resource Management Act (development nightmare)

[Indiana_Jones]

I had a secret ballot

-Indy

[EgliHonda]

add the old energy 'saving' bulbs to that list too...

[spacemonkey]

Emission Trading Scheme (pay for your fart and air you breath)

Nothing was enacted in law



Child Discipline Act (biggest bullshit ever)


Voted for by almost all of the current National cabinet.... And JK refuseing to change the law.



New Zealand Cycleway (still fail)

Ahh you mean John Keys lil pet project...........

Thanks for the laugh too . :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[phred]

I also voted for shonkey and I still think he could be better than the aforementioned hairy lesbo social engineer however I have no time for English and neither did his party when he made his play for top dog. He has proven himself dishonest and twofaced. Nixmyth is a lier and speaks the most unbelievable drivel. he's also fucking ugly which I know shouldn't be a decider but it ain't a plus.

For me it isn't a single issue at all. I find myself becoming more and more disgusted with how National are handling all the issues. I am seriously wondering who best to vote for next time.

I ain't a socialist either. I believe in personal freedom and accountability. We make our own way in the world. I expect my Government to listen to me and make rational informed and honest choices when implementing policy. I can accept that I must make a contribution to the overall wellbeing of society and for this contribution I get some rights.

I can't accept being lied to, being targeted and penalised when I am not at fault and being ignored.

Rant over.

[gammaguy]

Yes have to admit I was a 1st time Nat voter. I wanted to see that hairy legged social engineering lesbo gone.

great

so because she didnt give us all a woody,instead we get rampant capitalism and opportunistic fiscal policies designed to appease the rich and famous,not greasy "bikers"

shame voters didnt leave the politics in voting,and their penises in the bedroom.:mellow:

[pritch]

shame voters didnt leave <snip> their penises in the bedroom.:mellow:

It's just possible that a number of former Labour Cabinet Minsters did exactly that? :whistle:

[Marmoot]

CYCLEWAY

Ahh you mean John Keys lil pet project...........

Thanks for the laugh too . :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Laugh all you want
http://www.greens.org.nz/achievements Search for "Cycle"

[spacemonkey]

Laugh all you want
http://www.greens.org.nz/achievements Search for "Cycle"

I'm laughing extra hard now..... still nothing to do with labour like you insinuated earlier.
That link you just posted essentially turns up as greens saying well done to the NATIONAL leader. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



Green Achivements 2009

Another area of common ground is the New Zealand Cycleway where Kevin Hague has added his expertise to the Prime Minister's tourism project.

2009 so like well after the National party was elected.........:stupid:

[Thani-B]

Ha! I didn't!
I voted Labour!

Same here. My reason for that was the student loan/allowance aspect though.

[Marmoot]

still nothing to do with labour like you insinuated earlier.

Wasn't talking about labour either.

[oldrider]

You saying the Natzis have?

:laugh:

"No"... Sorry if that insinuation was there! (I split voted Act and National, now I think it was just wasted voting)

If I wanted to really vote for right wing policies I would vote for the "Libertarianz", their policies are more complete and support each other for a positive outcome!

All of the other parties are only offering populist tit bits to try and win the votes of disgruntled lefties! (NZ is almost full of lefties :confused: )

That's why nothing ever works in favour of anyone and MMP is a recipe for mediocrity or fail, take your pick! (I prefer STV personally, provides for accountability)

The same reason that Auckland is collectively such a dysfunctional bunch of Cities! ( symbiont socialism & mediocrity = fail = nothing ever really gets done!)

Looky here and have a read: [www.libertarianz.co.nz ] you will need remove any left wing blinkers from your thought processes to appreciate the content though!

And here for "Libertarianz" position on ACC hikes for bikers! http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/?libzpr=615

[Brett]

If only national hadnt blown the best decade in New Zealands economic history... errr ... umm ... oh that was the other lot.
If only kiwis werent trained from birth to look for free stuff from the gummint.
If only the world economy was a socialist fairy world where there were no bills to be paid and we could all earn 200k for a 15 hour week.
if only people werent morons

I like you. Can I be your friend?

[pritch]

I had a secret ballot

-Indy

Interesting. Did you not vote in this country?

Walking behind a piece of cardboard might give the impression of privacy but the reality is exactly as substantial as that.

The Government can check how anybody cast their vote if they wish to.

[tri boy]

Helen De Clerk shat all over NZ, and destroyed the wealth that the tax paying kiwi's built up over time.
Key is now flushing the toilet, and giving it a well required scrub out to make it clean and workable again, if labour stayed in, it would of turned into a fly infested shit house on a Japanese Fishing trawler.
HTFU New Zealand, stop whining and get on with the job. Drag ya snotty kids off the couch and FORCE them to earn pocket money. Stop pretending that we are special.
We have Hospitals, a decent Police force, secure housing, no invading armies, etc etc etc.
Sheesh, :Pokey:

[MikeL]

Helen De Clerk shat all over NZ, and destroyed the wealth that the tax paying kiwis built up over time.
Key is now flushing the toilet, and giving it a well required scrub out to make it clean and workable again, if labour stayed in, it would have turned into a fly infested shit house on a Japanese Fishing trawler.


A striking image, if rather difficult to relate to the realities of political history...

Be careful that your "well-required scrub out" doesn't end up throwing out the baby with the soiled nappy.

And as for destroying the wealth built up over time, surely the responsibility for that rests with Roger Douglas and his ilk, whose determination to hock the family silver has resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the New Zealand taxpayer to overseas investors.

[Indiana_Jones]

Interesting. Did you not vote in this country?

Walking behind a piece of cardboard might give the impression of privacy but the reality is exactly as substantial as that.

The Government can check how anybody cast their vote if they wish to.

I know, really pisses me off, there should be nothing on a voting paper that can tie one to a vote.

-Indy

[Motoracer]

Labour was in power for a long time for a reason. The whole "We want a change thing" sounded more like getting bored from wearing the same shirt over and over again even if it was practicle, functional, comfertable and did the job well.

[MisterD]

Labour was in power for a long time for a reason.

Which was the fact that they got to grips with the whole MMP thing quicker.



The whole "We want a change thing" sounded more like getting bored from wearing the same shirt over and over again even if it was practicle, functional, comfertable and did the job well.

...oh and the fact that Kiwis are stupid and it took them 9 years to wake up to the fact that Clark & Cullen were destroying the place...ok six years and a bought election

[Swoop]

And as for destroying the wealth built up over time...
Well, if cullen had not had his little "spend-a-thon" with the railway set and all the other bollocks that emptied the bank account prior to his forced exit at the hands of the voters, we might not be in the position we are in today.

Opening the books and finding a few billion missing... there is a great start for the new gubbinment.

[James Deuce]

We have Hospitals, a decent Police force, secure housing, no invading
Sheesh, :Pokey:

What NZ are you living in? We have NONE of those things.

[avgas]

What NZ are you living in? We have NONE of those things.
then fuck off

[spacemonkey]

What NZ are you living in? We have NONE of those things.

Sooo when did we cease to have hospitals?

Guess I'd better ring mum and tell her not to bother going back in to hospital for that check up on Monday then. :confused:

[avgas]

Didn't vote can't complain?

should be...

Voted - can't complain now.

I didn't vote for anyone in parliament, as did 20% of NZ. Yet there is still a full government. Go figure.

[tri boy]

What NZ are you living in? We have NONE of those things.

If you live in the "Hutt", then I totally sympathise with your view.
That place barely see's any sun, and alot of the locals walk round like extra's from Dawn of the Dead.:shifty:
However, our medical system is still saving many thousands of lives, the rozza's have a few good nabs most months, and the birds are tweeting outside my window as the day draws long on this fine country.:sunny:

[James Deuce]

Our medical system is appallingly bad and I only have bad things to say about it particularly when it comes to child health issues. Raging incompetence and filthy conditions. Between two of my kids I've had 27 admissions to deal with in the last 6 years and I do the majority of the Nursing work over night because staff never address issues like alerting flow guards or maintaining treatment plans involving medication. If my wife or I don't do it, it doesn't happen. We constantly battle decisions made by doctors that haven't been discussed with us first.

We never go through those admissions without catching secondary infections and I've had to deal with Glandular fever, encephalitis, swine flu, strep B infections, septicaemia, and a variety of bacterial and viral gastro-intestinal disorders, and these get passed onto colleagues and workmates, simply because hospitals don't get cleaned any more. Too expensive. I'm talking Hutt, Wellington, and Starship too.

Primary healthcare is a joke as well. GPs that charge $100 a visit and then the head of GPs pops up on the radio and says, "Cost shouldn't discourage people from visiting their GP."

Avgas: I would fuck off, but can't get residency in any other country with an Immigration department. For obvious reasons.

Spacemonkey: We have hospitals - but count your limbs at the door and make sure you have the same number when you leave. Depending on whether or not you're in to have some off of course, in which case check you have the correct ones when you leave.

[ManDownUnder]

I didn't vote for anyone in parliament, as did 20% of NZ. Yet there is still a full government. Go figure.

yeah but at least 20% of them are sitting there totally apathetic and doing nothing so... if anything you're over-represented...

[Squiggles]

Same here. My reason for that was the student loan/allowance aspect though.

They tried to buy us off again didnt they? But late in the game this time...

[Brett]

Our medical system is appallingly bad and I only have bad things to say about it particularly when it comes to child health issues. Raging incompetence and filthy conditions. Between two of my kids I've had 27 admissions to deal with in the last 6 years and I do the majority of the Nursing work over night because staff never address issues like alerting flow guards or maintaining treatment plans involving medication. If my wife or I don't do it, it doesn't happen. We constantly battle decisions made by doctors that haven't been discussed with us first.

We never go through those admissions without catching secondary infections and I've had to deal with Glandular fever, encephalitis, swine flu, strep B infections, septicaemia, and a variety of bacterial and viral gastro-intestinal disorders, and these get passed onto colleagues and workmates, simply because hospitals don't get cleaned any more. Too expensive. I'm talking Hutt, Wellington, and Starship too.

Primary healthcare is a joke as well. GPs that charge $100 a visit and then the head of GPs pops up on the radio and says, "Cost shouldn't discourage people from visiting their GP."

Avgas: I would fuck off, but can't get residency in any other country with an Immigration department. For obvious reasons.

Spacemonkey: We have hospitals - but count your limbs at the door and make sure you have the same number when you leave. Depending on whether or not you're in to have some off of course, in which case check you have the correct ones when you leave.


$100 a visit...change GP's then. If I am a mechanic and charge $120/hr and you don't like it, you can go elsewhere. Same deal for GP's...no one is forcing anyone to go to a particular GP.

Unfortuanately health care is a stretched resource in virtually every nation so most face similar issues or different issues with equally distressing outcomes.

[SPman]

Overall they have done a great job steering us through the difficult times, and to be blunt, there was a lot to fix up.

A great job?
They have done NOTHING to steer NZ through difficult times, except sit on their hands, and rort what's there for all it's worth.
There's always a lot to fix up - Labour are now a central right party in all but name so I don't expect too much from them, these days, as they have proved in the recent past, but Key is sleepwalking through the financial downturn and hoping it'll all come right again. National - the first Nat party to come to power with virtually no firm policies and what there were, were so ambiguous as to be useless anyway. Key is totally fucking useless, his ministers seem to be running totally amok, with no control, and every day seems to bring yet another revelation about gov. MP's behaving in illegal and corrupt fashions - this - despite a mainstream media that is falling over itself to heap praise on the government! How many people who are so keen on this government lived through the late 80's and 90's, and saw the way the country was fucked by policies from the same bunch of wankers who are currently in charge? Policies, incidentally, which Labour did s.f.a to change! Now you have the Brash/Douglas duo promoting even more of the same! Those who would be leaders in NZ really are totally out of touch with reality and treat the population as a barely tolerable burden they would do without, if they could!........

[James Deuce]

$100 a visit...change GP's then. If I am a mechanic and charge $120/hr and you don't like it, you can go elsewhere. Same deal for GP's...no one is forcing anyone to go to a particular GP.

Unfortuanately health care is a stretched resource in virtually every nation so most face similar issues or different issues with equally distressing outcomes.
I'm not suggesting my one does ($60 adults, $30 over 6 can;t change no other practice has the space to take us), however if you don't have a GP in the Wellington region you can't get one. There's a shortage and they aren't taking people on. The After Hours medical centre charges $80 for a visit, then $20 if you are from outside the Lower Hutt catchment (They're the only centre open all night in Wellington) and then another $20 if you aren't registered with a GP.

Guess where you have to go in the Hutt if you don't have a GP?

So the pricing is about Supply & Demand, not making sure people get the correct treatment. If people with colds and flus stayed the hell away from the doctor our GPs would be able to do their jobs properly. No one can help your cold or flu.

[Swoop]

... but Key is sleepwalking through the financial downturn and hoping it'll all come right again. Etc.
It is nice to note that the "financial downturn" is on its way back up and has been doing so for a little while now. I'm not too sure what the reporters and the media in Oz are saying though.

[aahsv]

The real problem is MMP itself - remember this system was voted in without a clear majority. Under MMP, the minority parties have become the real powerbrokers having a disproportionate influence on Government policy and our futures. Under MMP we are :buggerd:

[SPman]

then we would not have a national government that was under the puppet-strings of the maori party.


:rofl: to quote yourself " Who is your drug supplier?"
The real problem is MMP itself No it's not. National are currently a majority party and can govern without any of the others! MMP gives a more representative government - that's why the big parties hate it! It does have some minor fine tuning problems that should be sorted, though.

[Flip]

Well I like MMP, it means the goverment has to ask its partners what they want and stops or slows the goverment from making stupid law without consultation.

It took Labour 10 years to forget who voted them in and National 1 year to do the same. I think Key knows this and has to walk a very fine line but still has to do what his friends in the BRT want, like sell them ACC when it has a shit load of "our" money in the bank (12 billion dollars of assets and counting).

This has little to do with our ACC payments 62 of 1,000 (surplus) when you have 12,000 (million) in the bank. It has to do with big business wanting to get its hands on our money. Labour will have to buy it back, less the current 12 billion dollars worth of stripped assets. See NZ Rail or my parents super fund.

I like MMP. MMP= less power to the people in power.

[NighthawkNZ]

The real problem is MMP itself


The real problem is the monetory system itself... it doesn't matter how is in power... they are just puppets...

money, barter, trade the day we as humans realise we don't need it to have a functioning society the better

[MikeL]

It took Labour 10 years to forget who voted them in and National 1 year to do the same. I think Key knows this and has to walk a very fine line but still has to do what his friends in the BRT want, like sell them ACC when it has a shit load of "our" money in the bank (12 billion dollars of assets and counting).

This has little to do with our ACC payments 62 of 1,000 (surplus) when you have 12,000 (million) in the bank. It has to do with big business wanting to get its hands on our money. Labour will have to buy it back, less the current 12 billion dollars worth of stripped assets. See NZ Rail or my parents super fund.



Spot on. When will the penny drop, and the brutal truth of the power/wealth/politics nexus become apparent?
Answer: never, because the people, being as self-interested and short-sighted as those pulling the strings, but on average less intelligent, will forever be conned by those who have at their disposal the vast resources and sophisticated techniques of public relations (i.e. propaganda) and marketing/advertising (i.e. manipulation).
Those who argue that today's economic freedoms and greater material prosperity (compared with 20 or 30 years ago) represent progress have been willingly duped by those whose gains have been immeasurably greater than any realised by the average worker.
There is a Latin phrase which ought to be on the lips of everyone who wants to comprehend the reason behind every political, social and above all economic reform: cui bono? Roughly translated it means "Who stands to benefit"?
The statistics for income and wealth distribution in this country, as well as ownership of assets, over the last two decades, prove that despite the illusory increase in standard of living for all, the real beneficiaries have been the already wealthy. We might, possibly, be willing to accept that the greedy will always rule the earth, as long as we are assured of our little place in the sun, or by the sea, but the relentless selling off of NZ to overseas interests will eventually reduce our position to little more than serfs subservient to foreign landlords. But hey, do we care, as long as we've got our plasma TV and Jap import and a house valued at almost half a million dollars? We're rich, too, aren't we?

[Pixie]

Mr Key has done a great job making the economic down turn do a reversal.
He even caused the rest of the world's down turns to reverse as well.

[James Deuce]

So he says!

[Flatcap]

Well I like MMP, it means the goverment has to ask its partners what they want and stops or slows the goverment from making stupid law without consultation.

.



So stupid laws are passed slowly.....

[James Deuce]

They have to be passed slowly because they're so stupid.

[Brian d marge]

Spot on. When will the penny drop, and the brutal truth of the power/wealth/politics nexus become apparent?
Answer: never, because the people, being as self-interested and short-sighted as those pulling the strings, but on average less intelligent, will forever be conned by those who have at their disposal the vast resources and sophisticated techniques of public relations (i.e. propaganda) and marketing/advertising (i.e. manipulation).
Those who argue that today's economic freedoms and greater material prosperity (compared with 20 or 30 years ago) represent progress have been willingly duped by those whose gains have been immeasurably greater than any realised by the average worker.
There is a Latin phrase which ought to be on the lips of everyone who wants to comprehend the reason behind every political, social and above all economic reform: cui bono? Roughly translated it means "Who stands to benefit"?
?

Agreed , but thats what happens when you borrow money from the IMF or world bank and are borrowing now at ,,,how much?

Then they come along , suggest that you put in place a laissez-faire economy privatized up the wazzu , then the assets ( i want to meet this girl ) are repatriated overseas with very little benefit to NZ

Strange how the pollys alway seem to say the same thing once in power ....

I honestly dont know how to deal with it , play the system as much as they play you , invest in local schemes run by local people

buy NZ, from NZ owned companies

Borrow for houses etc from funds sourced and returned to NZ ( mum and dad, )

avoid credit like the plague unless its NZ sourced

Vote Maori party ( yes I know ,,,but I don't know any other party that has NZ at heart , and be held accountable through strong tradition ,,, I mean you cant sell the forest to Canadians if half the family are underneath it or you have been cutting you hair beneath the peach tree!

NZ with four million people , in a garden the size of Japan would be a fantastic place if the money simply stayed ,,,IN NZ

Stephen

Edit I need to digest an interesting argument put of by Prof Mc can , on national radio to day. NZ paradox .... not sure if it will change the above by much ,,,but its a new view point and if anyone can supply a copy of his paper I would be grateful

[SPman]

They have to be passed slowly because they're so stupid.
Which is better than Key & Co ramming through all their non written, non scrutinised, barely debated, appalling bills through parliament under urgency, including corrupt little add ons, like ceding public reserve land to mates of MP's........
If the public of NZ don't wake up soon, they'll deserve everything they will be bleating about, later.

there may be a few positive signs out there.....here's hoping........

[Flatcap]

Which is better than Key & Co ramming through all their non written, non scrutinised, barely debated, appalling bills through parliament under urgency, including corrupt little add ons, like ceding public reserve land to mates of MP's........
If the public of NZ don't wake up soon, they'll deserve everything they will be bleating about, later.

there may be a few positive signs out there.....here's hoping........


Such is democracy, the worst system of government, apart from all the rest

[Highlander]

Of course you voted for the business party. You're anti-worker by job description

I don't understand. :(

The way I see it we are all either unemployed, self empoyed or employed by a business....

If unemployed wouldn't you want business to be doing well, thereby increase your chances of getting a job, or at least to keep paying taxes so you can keep collecting a benefit (if you don't want to or are unable to work)? :niceone:

If you are self employed then don't you want the Government of the day to be in favour of those who are in business so you have a greater chance of succeeding? :niceone:

If you are employed by a business then don't you want the Government of the day to create an environment where the business you work for can flourish in order to keep you employed, maybe even get a pay rise? :niceone:


For what it is worth I don't agree with the proposed ACC changes, and exercised my political influence by submitting to ACC, writing to the Prime Minister, the Minister of ACC and my local Member of Parliament. But I won't be voting on one issue alone when I go into the polling booth in a couple of years time.


Edit: For those that didn't vote, what you are really saying is "I go along with what you others decide on my behalf", in the words of Steve Earl "Don't Vote? Don't Bitch!!"

[MisterD]

I don't understand. :(

The way I see it we are all either unemployed, self empoyed or employed by a business....

Don't worry about it, lefties don't do logic.

[Skyryder]

Don't worry about it, lefties don't do logic.

Going by Brashe's task force report I thought it was the other way round.


Skyryder

[naphazoline]

Dol!

Homer

I hate to say it,but............................................ ............................

I TOLD YOU SO!

Well.....Actually,it felt good.:Pokey:

[James Deuce]

Vote Maori party ( yes I know ,,,but I don't know any other party that has NZ at heart , and be held accountable through strong tradition ,,, I mean you cant sell the forest to Canadians if half the family are underneath it or you have been cutting you hair beneath the peach tree!


Giving that serious consideration. I'd rather be a 2nd class citizen under Maori, than a 3rd class slave under a Chinese Provincial Governor.

[SMOKEU]

Fuck National

[merv]

By the way, where is Finn these days - he hasn't defended his Government for a while?

[98tls]

Fuck National Fuck em all,nothing but a circus and the only thing that changes is the ringmaster,still the same old clowns year in year out.

[Brian d marge]

Giving that serious consideration. I'd rather be a 2nd class citizen under Maori, than a 3rd class slave under a Chinese Provincial Governor.

it will means drinking lion red and getting me eggs cooked

and the old folk wont like it

Stephen

[Motu]

By the way, where is Finn these days - he hasn't defended his Government for a while?

Achieved his objective - swaying the sheep on this site against Labour and making them vote National.It was going to happen anyway,a 4th term from Labour was stretching it a bit.But it would of been better if these young first time voters could of thought things out for themselves instead of their brains being poisoned by hate.

[Hinny]

A single issue shouldn't govern your voting habits.

It seems every day the media is reporting another Nat.- fuck-up.

Nat supporters view this as a Left leaning press. :argh:
Demonstrably wrong.

The perception that the National party is for business is pretty ironic.
If you look at the stats over the last forty years you would see business failures reaching record numbers under National govts.
Foreign big business does OK tho'.

The perception that the Labour party is for dole bludgers is similarly flawed as unemployment reaches record lows whenever Labour govts. are at the helm. Lower unemployment = fewer dole bludgers.

[Hinny]

Don't worry about it, lefties don't do logic.

Jerry had some good logical advice for George in 'Seinfeld'.
Since George was getting everything wrong Jerry suggested he should just do the opposite to that which he was about to do.
It worked.

I think you should try the same.

[gammaguy]

It seems every day the media is reporting another Nat.- fuck-up.

Nat supporters view this as a Left leaning press. :argh:
Demonstrably wrong.

The perception that the National party is for business is pretty ironic.
If you look at the stats over the last forty years you would see business failures reaching record numbers under National govts.
Foreign big business does OK tho'.

The perception that the Labour party is for dole bludgers is similarly flawed as unemployment reaches record lows whenever Labour govts. are at the helm. Lower unemployment = fewer dole bludgers.

too right

and fewer dole bludgers means less crime,the social flow on effects are huge.

[naphazoline]

The perception that the National party is for business is pretty ironic.
If you look at the stats over the last forty years you would see business failures reaching record numbers under National govts.
Foreign big business does OK tho'.

The perception that the Labour party is for dole bludgers is similarly flawed as unemployment reaches record lows whenever Labour govts. are at the helm. Lower unemployment = fewer dole bludgers.

I hope you're not going by the media,or governmental statistics,as we all know TOO well what bullshit they make of them.

[oldrider]

Our medical system is appallingly bad and I only have bad things to say about it particularly when it comes to child health issues. Raging incompetence and filthy conditions. Between two of my kids I've had 27 admissions to deal with in the last 6 years and I do the majority of the Nursing work over night because staff never address issues like alerting flow guards or maintaining treatment plans involving medication. If my wife or I don't do it, it doesn't happen. We constantly battle decisions made by doctors that haven't been discussed with us first.

We never go through those admissions without catching secondary infections and I've had to deal with Glandular fever, encephalitis, swine flu, strep B infections, septicaemia, and a variety of bacterial and viral gastro-intestinal disorders, and these get passed onto colleagues and workmates, simply because hospitals don't get cleaned any more. Too expensive. I'm talking Hutt, Wellington, and Starship too.

Primary healthcare is a joke as well. GPs that charge $100 a visit and then the head of GPs pops up on the radio and says, "Cost shouldn't discourage people from visiting their GP."

Avgas: I would fuck off, but can't get residency in any other country with an Immigration department. For obvious reasons.

Spacemonkey: We have hospitals - but count your limbs at the door and make sure you have the same number when you leave. Depending on whether or not you're in to have some off of course, in which case check you have the correct ones when you leave.

Totally agree with that expressed opinion!

New Zealand hospitals are a disgrace and are some of the most dangerous places in the country!

Anyone who thinks otherwise has either got their head up there arse, are blind, or haven't been near one lately! :yes:

[SPman]

Giving that serious consideration. I'd rather be a 2nd class citizen under Maori, than a 3rd class slave under a Chinese Provincial Governor.
I've done it twice - after the debacle of this current parliament, I won't be doing it a third time.

[Skyryder]

Totally agree with that expressed opinion!

New Zealand hospitals are a disgrace and are some of the most dangerous places in the country!

Anyone who thinks otherwise has either got their head up there arse, are blind, or haven't been near one lately! :yes:

Jeez OR I gota go and get checked out on the 21st.

Bookings for my 'wake' at the KB original rally?? :beer: and more :beer:


Skyryder

[scissorhands]

You'll live. Just permanently never the same again.

I had a scan and later then an Xray and couldnt be happier with Greenlane Hospital....hardly even a wait, very smooth experience, would trade again AAA+++

[phaedrus]

Totally agree with that expressed opinion!

New Zealand hospitals are a disgrace and are some of the most dangerous places in the country!

Anyone who thinks otherwise has either got their head up there arse, are blind, or haven't been near one lately! :yes:

it depends on the hospital and doctors you get.
Timaru fer instance, you'd be better off getting a rusty knife and giving it a go yourself.

compared to dunedin.. i was out in about 3 days with some new tin bits.

[98tls]

it depends on the hospital and doctors you get.
Timaru fer instance, you'd be better off getting a rusty knife and giving it a go yourself.

compared to dunedin.. i was out in about 3 days with some new tin bits. If you think Timarus bad try Oamaru,went there once with a dislocated thumb not particularly serious but at the time annoyingly painful,getting to see a doctor was like breaking into Fort Knox and when i finally got to see one turns out hes Indian,i have no problem with Indians but found it annoying that i couldnt understand a word he said nor him a word i said,pretty obvious what the problem was but after 20 minutes of trying to explain my name and addy so he could fill out some bit of paper i had had enough,he seemed to understand "fuck off ive had enough of this shit" and i left,the nurse (who could understand English) caught me up down the corridor and attended to my thumb.

[James Deuce]

it depends on the hospital and doctors you get.
Timaru fer instance, you'd be better off getting a rusty knife and giving it a go yourself.

compared to dunedin.. i was out in about 3 days with some new tin bits.
It doesn't depend on the Doctors. It depends entirely on Hospital Management. Doctors are interchangeable units and 8/10ths of them are temporary visitors to a particular hospital, on the way to gaining qualifications that lead to a better paying private practice in another country. Always remember that Doctors are the people who sorted out how to pass an exam at school. They're usually not the sort of people you'd enjoy a pint with, unless you wanted a lecture on how you're doing it all wrong.

Nursing management defines patient contact culture and that is where NZ's hospitals most often fail. Nursing management are strapped for cash and generally poor communicators. Hospital Management don't give a flying fuck about their plight and continue to operate at dangerously low staffing levels, usually relying on under-qualified ill-experienced staff, because you can only take that shit for so long before you go and never return. Getting 20 years out of a Nurse is unusual, and their institutional knowledge is under-valued by Management and patients alike.

[oldrider]

Funny thing is most procedures in public hospitals cost a whole lot more overall than the equivalent in a private hospital! :doctor:

NZ public (read voters) are completely unaware (read brainwashed) about this! :oi-grr:

[spacemonkey]

Funny thing is most procedures in public hospitals cost a whole lot more overall than the equivalent in a private hospital! :doctor:


Got anything to back this statement up?

[Brian d marge]

Sorry

all good here

Could walk out door after 2 bottles of plonk

Drive even ( I wouldnt but you could )

and get an MRI scan on me foot , and still be home before dawn ,,,,

in fact the opposite is true here

took boy in, for fever he got spinal tap three days in pokey and we had to smuggle him out as they wouldnt let him leave

cost

about fifty dollars
including meals for mum
Stephen

[oldrider]

Got anything to back this statement up?

Yep! But the material is confidential! (privacy)

[spacemonkey]

Yep! But the material is confidential! (privacy)

Then I'll file your comment under "probably bullshit"

[pete376403]

Got anything to back this statement up?
Anecdotal - when I first inquired about a cochlear implant, first thing they asked was "do you have insurance?". If I was insured, I could have had the op literally that week. As I did not, I went onto a waiting list for some four years or so.
Government funding paid the $50K for the op, for which I will be grateful for the rest of my life, but I do recall the surgeon saying it would have been a lot cheaper if done privately.
HOWEVER - with the govt funding, that pays for any ongoing costs of the CI for as long as I have it / live, as well as the initial costs of the surgery and hardware. The private plan would have been for the operation and the hardware
only, and any after services would be paid for separately, so it wasn't an entirely valid comparison.

[oldrider]

Then I'll file your comment under "probably bullshit"

Well there is always the fact that public hospital backlog procedures could have been carried out in private hospitals cheaper and quicker!

The Labour government refused on grounds of ideology, that was reported by the media!

Look it up yourself and make your own choice, bullshit or not, the other one was one of my own and I'm not telling you the details!

I just know that it is a fact!