1 Dec with Kanwaljit Bakshi National Papatoetoe

[dpex]

Although English scurried away before I got to have a go at him...not that such would have achieved a great deal.... it was actually a most informative evening; at least for me.

I got the opportunity for some quite lengthy one-on-ones with Cam Calder, Melissa Lee, Kanwaljit himself, and sundry hanger-on bureaucrats.

I was amazed at how little thought the back-benchers (mentioned above) have put into the ramifications of the ACC issue. I suspect that after a few minutes of me bending their ears, they were similarly surprised at their lack of understanding of the wider picture.

Also got a chance for a bit of a laugh. I was standing at the front of the circle surrounding English. He had two DPS guys in tow. One looked fairly relaxed and a little bored. But the other was a picture of committed restlessness, ready to leap in front of English to "take the bullet" so to speak.

Anyway, I gained eye-contact with him on several occasions and did a wee stare-down competition. The first-to-look-away score was fairly even.

But in my leathers I was getting atrociously hot and a rather malicious thought crossed my mind. I gained eye-contact with the guy again, then slowly slipped my hand into my jacket as I stared at him. In his imagination my hand could have been going for anything and he started to look very concerned.

Holding his stare my hand returned with my fags and lighter, prior to shucking off my jacket.

Bugger me! He almost smiled at the little poke.

Although there were but ONLY 12 of us, committed protesters, we made our presence felt.

However, the main things I learned tonight was were two. First, the back-benchers have way more to lose from public approbrium than do cabinet ministers. Thus it is they upon whom we should mount a veritable tidal wave of complaint and information. It would be most helpful to keep reminding the back-benchers exactly how tenuous is their position, and that their failure to help their electorates over-turn the whole ACC debacle could cost them their seat come the next election.

Second; I got the distinct impression they recognised their tenuous positions.

And so, please feel free to write to Cam and Melissa. They assert they await your communications. cam.caldermp@govt.co.nz. Melissa.lee@Govt.co.nz bakshi.mp@govt.co.nz.

Sadly, Kanjalit's English is not that hot, so keep the words simple.

Interestingly, he is a significant target in whom to instill electoral fear. The place was wall-to-wall Indians, and one speaker proudly asserted that the entire population of Mainland India would be proud of their son who is first-ever Sikh MP in New Zealand. So he has a shit-load more than just his fancy income to lose should he lose the next elections.

[mikeey01]

He had two DPS guys in tow. One looked fairly relaxed and a little bored. But the other was a picture of committed restlessness, ready to leap in front of English to "take the bullet" so to speak.
I gained eye-contact with the guy again, then slowly slipped my hand into my jacket as I stared at him. In his imagination my hand could have been going for anything and he started to look very concerned.

Holding his stare my hand returned with my fags and lighter, prior to shucking off my jacket.

Bugger me! He almost smiled at the little poke.

lol, :rofl: stop it I'm jealous!

dpex, tops marks for being there though man. :niceone:

[Pedrostt500]

I am certain that there is a training manual for all politicians, it says somewhere in it, " If some one tries to tell you something you don't realy want to hear, seem interested, and surprised, that you havn't heard any thing about it, Promis to look into it when you get back to your office", then promptly forget anything about it.
Keep in mind that Politicians regardless of party are Profesional BULL SHIT ARTISTS.

[Ixion]

Cam Calder was there , he's definately genuine.

Melissa Lee *seemed* receptive to argument.

However, they're both only (fairly low ranking) list MPs.

We need to get a Cabinet minister onside.

[short-circuit]

We need to get a Cabinet minister onside.

Was that a serious comment?

[325rocket]

Melissa Lee *seemed* receptive to argument.


but do you really want her on your side???

[Ixion]

Was that a serious comment?

Yes. But the only possibility I can think of is Peter Dunne. Have we been neglecting this resource?

[short-circuit]

Have we been neglecting this resource?

Good old "common-sense"...can't think of a better candidate....to neglect

[gijoe1313]

Yes, rather a nice sedate gathering of motorsickling enthusaniasists ... like dpex, was rather bemused with the praetorian bodyguard and I had my fun ... scratching my nose ... pause ... reach down ... reach up ... scratch nose ... beady eyes wondering if I had WMDs at my disposal :shifty:

I was impressed with the unity that the different religions and races had reached and their accord to try and get representation.

Other than that, just the usual pressing of the flesh and talking to a few more polis ... :pinch:

Need more bikers people! Need more bikers at these things!

Kudos to those who turned up! :niceone:

[Conquiztador]

Yes, rather a nice sedate gathering of motorsickling enthusaniasists ...

Need more bikers people! Need more bikers at these things!


The solution is simple: Provide a "I was there" badge and we will come in droves. And give T-shirts with date, place and occasion a consideration too...

And add a band or two and throw in a wet T comp and we won't leave. ;)

[gijoe1313]

The solution is simple: Provide a "I was there" badge and we will come in droves. And give T-shirts with date, place and occasion a consideration too...

And add a band or two and throw in a wet T comp and we won't leave. ;)

Shizen! I missed out on that? :weep: Screw protesting at silly poli back slapping meets! :slap:

[scissorhands]

Finding out when and where these protests occur, isnt always easy on this site.

A resource page that looks like a diary would make it easier for people to get along to them.

[FastBikeGear]

Great comments already from the guys that were there.

When Les pointed out to Melissa how the ACC changes could affect the voting of a major block of voters she looked shocked and suprised (she visibly blanched) and suddenly started taking a lot more interest in the discussion. Well done Les!

As Dpex says the marginal MP's are definitely a worthy pressure point. Some of them can be made to see that they could well loose their seats over teh ACC issue.

Cam and Melissa were very generous with their time. Talking and listening to each of us in turn. We each got the chance to put well reasoned arguments to them.

Cam seemed to have some knowledge of what was going on, but hasn't looked into any of the numbers being quoted. (He claims to be a motorcycle nut and apparently once had an AJS in his lounge).

Melissa didn't seem to know anything other than what you might read in the papers. She's definitely hasn't been posing any questions to herself over the ACC issues.

I wondered if their job was to talk to us and keep us occupied so that we didn't upset the proceedings.

The Indian community showed us great hospitality and were very concerned that we might do something to disrupt their event. Several of them came over to speak to me. One of them asked that I do nothing to upset the procedings. (I was almost flattered that they could think I would be a likely troublemaker). Several owned motorcycles but were not up on the play. We all showed great respect for their event no shouting, etc. I was really impressed with how they treated us.

In fact their was a lot of respect all around.

I was a bit amused that the police asked all of us to produce our licenses (which we all willingly complied with) and wrote down our details. Dpex asked if they would be asking everyone else there to produce their licenses. They asked me to move away from the entrance as it was only for registered guests. I pointed out that I was a registered guest and they let me be.

[klingon]

...

I was a bit amused that the police asked all of us to produce our licenses (which we all willingly complied with) and wrote down our details. Dpex asked if they would be asking everyone else there to produce their licenses. They asked me to move away from the entrance as it was only for registered guests. I pointed out that I was a registered guest and they let me be.

Interesting! Surely they had no grounds for requesting your details! You should have said, "yes, I will give you my license details when you request the same from every other guest in this room."

Definitely sounds like "pick on bikers" day to me.

[FastBikeGear]

Interesting! Surely they had no grounds for requesting your details! You should have said, "yes, I will give you my license details when you request the same from every other guest in this room."

Definitely sounds like "pick on bikers" day to me.

Yes I could have refused legally as in NZ we are not required to cover proof of identity and I could have easily said I arrived as a pillion and they wouldn't have been any the wiser. However I could see no reason why not to.

I guess that they felt it was prudent policing to ask in case I suddenly acted criminally. They asked nicely and besides the female police officer present just had one of those smiles I couldn't say no to!

[Ixion]

Hm "Wrote down the (licence) details". That's a bit suss. I wonder why?

They never asked me.

[PirateJafa]

Hm "Wrote down the (licence) details". That's a bit suss. I wonder why?

They never asked me.

Because they already know your ugly mug, you ol' troublemaker you! ;)

[Mom]

Hm "Wrote down the (licence) details". That's a bit suss. I wonder why?

They never asked me.

See, I would take exception to that sort of thing personally. I would be wanting to ask why?

Yes, we all know we HAVE to tell the police our name etc when asked, but in a big group with only a select few asked? I would be asking bigger questions.

[dpex]

See, I would take exception to that sort of thing personally. I would be wanting to ask why?

Yes, we all know we HAVE to tell the police our name etc when asked, but in a big group with only a select few asked? I would be asking bigger questions.

Chortle.

The fact is the cop went well beyond his legal right, but then we all of us beautiful bikers went beyond our legal responsibility and simply provided said cop with our licences.

Had we refused to do so, as was our legal right, the scene would have inflamed. The cop would have got huffy, probably done a bit of., 'You're now trespassing,' impressions, or other legal thing.

Had we bought into our legal rights the situation would have heated and Bakshi's night of glory would have gone to hell in a hand-basket.

No. Good ups to all of us, especially me who was so close to telling the cop to shove it. We acted admirably. We didn't 'really' upset Bakshi's night of fame.

But he and his retinue of supporters were very concerned we would.

Well. Bakshi. On the night we were peaceful. Maybe next time we won't be in YOUR electorate.

Believe me folks, this guy is National's weak link. Not just him but his vast support group who see him as almost the new Messiah (whatever that is in Indian culture, but you know what I mean).

Oh yes. I intend to focus a lot of attention on Bakshi and his entourage.

He's a new back bencher with a shit-load more to lose than an MP I can think of, because he represents Indian pride.

[caseye]

Yes I could have refused legally as in NZ we are not required to cover proof of identity and I could have easily said I arrived as a pillion and they wouldn't have been any the wiser. However I could see no reason why not to.

I guess that they felt it was prudent policing to ask in case I suddenly acted criminally. They asked nicely and besides the female police officer present just had one of those smiles I couldn't say no to!

Hate to say it Wobblyas, but it is the only thing that by law we are in fact required to do.Provide our name and address when and if asked for by a member of Police.
I've said this before too and been cried down by the do gooders but here goes again.
Now that we have this other little law that requires us drivers licence holders to have it on us at all times.had we not produced said licence when asked to do so we could have been charged with failing to do so and arrested and carted off, if they thought it was required.
So you see the tools are there to stop almost any sort of gathering in it's tracks if they decide to do so.
On a brighter note, we behaved ourselves, the Indian community saw that and were both grateful and respected our right to be there and ask our questions.
Dpex basically covered everything else that occurred.
Though our numbers were small , we were expected, the local Sgt of Police was a little concerned and acted initially with haste, he settled down when it became obvious we were not there to cause trouble.
Numbers would have been a huge factor, if we'd done exactly what our small group did but with a 100 or more riders there it would have shown Mr English and his Ilk that we are most definitely not going away.

[FastBikeGear]

Hate to say it Wobblyas, but it is the only thing that by law we are in fact required to do.Provide our name and address when and if asked for by a member of Police.

Are you sure? I would have thought in my naivety that you only need to provide a name or address if you are a suspect for a crime


I've said this before too and been cried down by the do gooders but here goes again.
Now that we have this other little law that requires us drivers licence holders to have it on us at all times.had we not produced said licence when asked to do so we could have been charged with failing to do so and arrested and carted off, if they thought it was required.

If your not deemed to be in charge of a motor vehicle you don't have to produce a license. And of course those people who don't have a license are incapable of it.



Numbers would have been a huge factor, if we'd done exactly what our small group did but with a 100 or more riders there it would have shown Mr English and his Ilk that we are most definitely not going away.

Lets promote the next one more and get better numbers. I think we got some great mileage at this event.

[caseye]

Are you sure? I would have thought in my naivety that you only need to provide a name or address if you are a suspect for a crime
It's still the only thing you can't refuse to do for a Police Officer.
ie: give both your name and address if asked.

If your not deemed to be in charge of a motor vehicle you don't have to produce a license. And of course those people who don't have a license are incapable of it.
Not anymore, if he asks you for your drivers licence and you acknowledge having one but can't produce it he can infringement notice you, confine you, or arrest you. Say thanks Aunty Helen.


Lets promote the next one more and get better numbers. I think we got some great mileage at this event.

Couldn't agree more, it went bloody well, loved the look on Mr Plods face when you produced your inviteed guest pass.
Nice work, but had we all done that, we'd have been on better ground.

[Voltaire]

I would have thought that you only needed to produce your drivers licence if you were in charge of a motor vehicle, ie pulled over. merely standing around dressed in motor cycle gear is neither here nor there.

[caseye]

WRONG AGAIN See, we've all been asleep while gubbermint was being sneaky.
Aunty Helens mob put this little gem through.By law if you have a drivers licence and you cant produce it, you have commited a crime.Used to be you had seven days to produce it.
Course here in NZ it'd be a poor example of Law enforcement that actually did this for somone walking down a road minding their own business, or stood around a building dressed in Motorcycle gear.
But no they can if they choose to.

[Voltaire]

WRONG AGAIN See, we've all been asleep while gubbermint was being sneaky.
Aunty Helens mob put this little gem through.By law if you have a drivers licence and you cant produce it, you have commited a crime.Used to be you had seven days to produce it.
Course here in NZ it'd be a poor example of Law enforcement that actually did this for somone walking down a road minding their own business, or stood around a building dressed in Motorcycle gear.
But no they can if they choose to.

yes...its a $50 fine.
I had my wallet stolen and its a 2 hour hassle to get a new licence.
Actually easier/cheaper not to bother carrying it.
surely you jest.... I can understand being pulled over and asked to produce a licence but to be parked and asked......:laugh::laugh:
If I was not actually driving/ riding at the time I would refuse to show my licence....as its a drivers licence not a fecking ID card.
I'm looking forward to the day I can call a cop 'son" like they used to do to me...

[caseye]

Volti, thats my whole point, our drivers licences have become a psuedo ID!
If you have one, you are required by law to have it on you at all times.
If you can't produce it, it's a fine, if you cut up rough about it, it's a visit to the cells and then the Judge, get my drift.
They have been given FAR to big a stick.

[Voltaire]

Volti, thats my whole point, our drivers licences have become a psuedo ID!
If you have one, you are required by law to have it on you at all times.
If you can't produce it, it's a fine, if you cut up rough about it, it's a visit to the cells and then the Judge, get my drift.
They have been given FAR to big a stick.

sigh......

[MacD]

Are you sure? I would have thought in my naivety that you only need to provide a name or address if you are a suspect for a crime


Nope. That's why the Police ask you to state your name and address when they use their breath screening devices, as you are required to provide this information if asked.

[Addict]

I did ask the cop why they wanted my licence details and the answer I was given was that we all arrived riding bikes and he just wanted to make sure we all had the appropriate licence.
As he answered this he stepped into my personal space -i believe- trying to make me feel threatened which actually made me feel homophobic.

I also had a friendly chat with the "rent a human shield" guy (with the shifty eyes) and asked if he had a gun in his jacket, "i can neither confirm nor deny that" was his response, I think he was being funny, hard to tell since his eyes didn't stop shiftying.

Mike

[caseye]

You were lucky, he's no rent a human shield, he is DPS or more commonly known as a Police Officer attached to the Diplomatic Protection Squad and yes he would have had a gun under his jacket.
Was it the big tall copper with the sgt stripes who stepped into your personal space?
Threaten , No, sus out, scared,worried, nerveous, Yes, an old trick.

[dpex]

I did ask the cop why they wanted my licence details and the answer I was given was that we all arrived riding bikes and he just wanted to make sure we all had the appropriate licence.
As he answered this he stepped into my personal space -i believe- trying to make me feel threatened which actually made me feel homophobic.

I also had a friendly chat with the "rent a human shield" guy (with the shifty eyes) and asked if he had a gun in his jacket, "i can neither confirm nor deny that" was his response, I think he was being funny, hard to tell since his eyes didn't stop shiftying.

Mike

The last bit's a good funny.

Many years ago (1990 Commonwealth Games) I was about to interview (for TV Sport) the brother of the Crown Prince of some 'Gyptian state who, at the time, had three serious body-guards arrayed behind him. I made the mistake of producing a hand-held, old-style mike, from behind my back, which they immediately took to be a gun, and drew their weapons. Me, slapping my face into the ground screaming 'It's a Mike! It's a Mike!' only just stopped me getting shot.

I later learned that there had been a hell of a row because nobody other than registered cops can carry firearms in NZ. More amazingly, the DPS guys are unarmed!!?? Go figure.

Mind you, can you name any politician who would not benefit from being variously shot, blown up, blown down, blown away, or otherwise aided to toddle off this mortal coil?

[pete376403]

WRONG AGAIN See, we've all been asleep while gubbermint was being sneaky.
Aunty Helens mob put this little gem through.By law if you have a drivers licence and you cant produce it, you have commited a crime.Used to be you had seven days to produce it.
Course here in NZ it'd be a poor example of Law enforcement that actually did this for somone walking down a road minding their own business, or stood around a building dressed in Motorcycle gear.
But no they can if they choose to.

Was it under Labour? I thought it was on Shipleys watch.

[Skyryder]

See, I would take exception to that sort of thing personally. I would be wanting to ask why?

Yes, we all know we HAVE to tell the police our name etc when asked, but in a big group with only a select few asked? I would be asking bigger questions.

Yep thought crossed my mind too. No question about producing licence when 'in charge' of a vehicle but as a pedestrian??.wearing leathers?????....................could have bought an 'interesting' response if refused.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

Original statement was not just "asked to produce driver's licence", but also that the cop wrote down the details.

Being asked for ID, I could go along with (though for some reason they didn't ask me). It was a private function on private property. The "writing it down" bit seems sinister.

[yachtie10]

Was it under Labour? I thought it was on Shipleys watch.

wasnt it when the new licences came in? around 2000/2001 but dont quote me

[Conquiztador]

Original statement was not just "asked to produce driver's licence", but also that the cop wrote down the details.

Being asked for ID, I could go along with (though for some reason they didn't ask me). It was a private function on private property. The "writing it down" bit seems sinister.

It was just in case you guys suddenly produced your patches and started to rape an pillaging after a pipe of P like all bikers do!

[gijoe1313]

It was just in case you guys suddenly produced your patches and started to rape an pillaging after a pipe of P like all bikers do!

Lies! We do all that sort of thing before we turn up! :devil2: