Ah crap...

[Ollie.T]

Hey all, I know this should be in the maintenance forums but bear with me...

Im riding down to Christchurch tomorrow (from Wellington) so decided to do a bit of stuff on my bike - it was due for its 10k service. So I changed the brake fluid, changed the oil, clean, oiled and adjusted my chain and all was fine.

However, just took it for a spin to check it all out, lo and behold, 2km from home it died. Its short circuiting somewhere, found fuse was blown.

Its a 2004 GN250, when it died I was repeatedly accelerating up to about 40-50km then braking with front brake only.

Anyway, both my Dad and I are stumped as to what it could be, you lot are my only hope of making the 8:15 ferry. So please, if anyone has suggestions as to what it could be, fire away!

Cheers

Ollie

[p.dath]

Any chance there is a wire with worn insulation that has been moved with the recent maintenance that is now shorting? I'm guessing near the brakes, since that triggers it?

Second guess, is a wire near the suspension or braking mechanism, and is getting pinched when you brake?

[White trash]

Trapped wire in the loom or the mess they pack into the headlight has worn through.

[p.dath]

Is the battery loose, and sliding forward under braking? Are the terminals properly covered? If not, perhaps the battery is moving forward and the terminals are shorting on the chassis.

[p.dath]

Which actual fuse is blowing? That will at least identify the system with the issue.

[YellowDog]

I'm sure the acellerating and braking is just a red herring.

If you have spent some time cleaning, there is a good chance you have got something wet that should not be.

A role of paper towels and a hair dryer should sort you out.

It's a shame you don't have more time. Take lots of spare fuses with you.

BUT first do check that you don't have any bare/loose wires floating around. Especially look at any aux extras that have been added.

Good luck.

[nothingflash]

Is the battery loose, and sliding forward under braking? Are the terminals properly covered? If not, perhaps the battery is moving forward and the terminals are shorting on the chassis.

Yep, that was my guess too... Good old Murphy's Law huh. If I ever catch the bastard....

[p.dath]

If you rev the bike up while in neutral does the effect still happening? i,e. Is it definately braking that triggers it, or is that a co-incidence?

While the bike is running, if you lean it left or right does the same problem happen? Try giving it a good shake as well.

[CookMySock]

Put another fuse in it, and wriggle the loom gently until it pops the fuse, and slowly isolate the area where the fault is. Consider doing in a darkened room so you can see the flash. You will need a box of fuses. ;)

DO NOT bypass the fuse with a piece of wire, or you WILL fuck the whole wiring loom.

Steve

[Ollie.T]

While the bike is running, if you lean it left or right does the same problem happen? Try giving it a good shake as well.

Well the problem is, the bike wont start at all...



Is the battery loose, and sliding forward under braking? Are the terminals properly covered? If not, perhaps the battery is moving forward and the terminals are shorting on the chassis.

Battery is secure, and properly covered.


If you have spent some time cleaning, there is a good chance you have got something wet that should not be.

Cleaned it yesterday - was running fine then. No water has gotten on my bike today.


Which actual fuse is blowing? That will at least identify the system with the issue.

GNs only have one fuse i though, right next to the battery.

Found a few spare 15A fuses in the garage, tried another one, it blew straight away - and the keys were out of the bike (which seems decidedly odd)

Dads gone down to the petrol station to get some more fuses, I'll go check the rats nest behind the headlight :p

Thanks for all the replies!! Man, was going to try and have a early night tonight....

Ollie

[p.dath]

GNs only have one fuse i though, right next to the battery.

Found a few spare 15A fuses in the garage, tried another one, it blew straight away - and the keys were out of the bike (which seems decidedly odd)


Does it have a distribution box? Aka, wire from battery to a bar, and then feeds out from there to the rest of the systems?

If it does, I would try disconnecting all the "outputs". Put the fuse back in, and with the key off, reconnecting each output from the distribution until you blow the fuse - then follow that wire.

If it blows with the key off, I would be tempted to look closely at the wires that go to the ignition key lock.

I would also be tempted to try pulling out the relays, and see if that stops the fuses from blowing. If it does, then plug them back in one at a time.


Do you have a multimeter? If you do then you could save a lot of fuses doing some tests ...

[izzyc]

sometimes it can be that the battery is knacked...ie the plates can come disconnected from the lugs...[an internal battery problem]...get it tested, wont cost anything..[usually]

[Ollie.T]

yeah I got a multimeter, and I just started tunneling my way towards the ignition... will also check in the workshop manual about the distribution bar.

Lucky my ferry ticket is one I can change up until check in time, I just gotta be in christchurch by 8.45 am on Thursday!

[Dean]

Its a stuffed regulater/rectifier, you are looking at around $300 repair I had the exact problem when I had the dam thing. ALL gn's suffer from this. In the meantime you can have it running by - Take the right side cover off you should have a white casing with fuses in it and a little amp bulb, buy the correct bulb replacements from repco or I think petrol stations and have them on hold. So whenever it dies you can put another one in, start the bike up and should last you for few days. And they said I was a newbie.

[huff3r]

Its a stuffed regulater/rectifier, you are looking at around $300 repair I had the exact problem when I had the dam thing. ALL gn's suffer from this. In the meantime you can have it running by - Take the right side cover off you should have a white casing with fuses in it and a little amp bulb, buy the correct bulb replacements from repco or I think petrol stations and have them on hold. So whenever it dies you can put another one in, start the bike up and should last you for few days. And they said I was a newbie.

I call bullshit, but lets not get into this again :doh:

This might be the right advise, but just ignore anything else Dean has to say about GNs... he has some kind of personal issue with them :laugh:

[p.dath]

I call bullshit, but lets not get into this again :doh:

This might be the right advise, but just ignore anything else Dean has to say about GNs... he has some kind of personal issue with them :laugh:

If the ignition key is off, how could it be the regulator/rectifier?

[huff3r]

If the ignition key is off, how could it be the regulator/rectifier?

Guess it isnt then, dont ask me...

My guess would be the same as everyone elses to be honest, worn wires somewhere or a faulty relay..

Just had to point out that the only part of Deans post to take seriously was the advice, not the digging at GNs

[Dean]

It should be a 5amp bulb (Im sure) that you need to replace get a bunch of them from your local shell station or repco, I dont recall you saying the ignition key was off. It answers all the symptoms. Like what i said, pull of the right side cover you should see a white casing you unclip it, there should be 4 fuses going through to the reg/rec. And a 5amp bulb but check it anyway, pull out the battery and behind it you should see the fuse box check (a square casing) everything is right.

[Dean]

Ill post a picture hold up

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ronpte.jpg

This is the amp you should replace. I will put in to a song so you can understand it better.

Come on OlieT take of the side cover to get to the devices
You got to replace the reg/rec and it costs great prices
Your not needing to ride around the pacific
Ohhhhh fix your bike. hi ya

So all you got to do is replace the bulb with a new one
It should last you for a few days and give you more throttle fun
Check the fuse box behind the battery
To make sure theres no problems with the fuses, I helped you dont flatter me
Ohhhh makerena hi ya

[CookMySock]

It IS POSSIBLE a stuffed reg/rect will do this. Simply unplug it and replace the fuse, an reconnect the reg/rect, and you will have your answer.

I think it will be less than $300 though.

Steve

[Ollie.T]

Ok, Im stumped and going to bed,

Been unplugging all the relays one by one, then measuring the voltage between the + end of fuse holder (white with black tape i think in your photo Dean) and earth... no matter what was unplugged it always measured 11.92V.

after unplugging and replugging everything, we put a new fuse in and nothing had changed, blew straight away without turning bike on.

Have I been barking up the wrong tree here and testing nothing in particular?

Might have to cancel ferry and visit the mechanics tomorrow instead...

Cheers for everyones help :D much appreciated!

[TOTO]

could be a bit late, but sice you been changing brake fluid, is it possible that you have moved/open the control box that contains the kill switch ? maybe some wires in there are touching (or not).

good luck.

[Ollie.T]

mmm could of... but I don't see how that would short it out when the bike is turned off with the keys... if the short was there, it would only short out when I try to turn the electrics on?

[shafty]

Front or rear brake-light switch? Just a guess...:shutup:

[Mystic13]

Ok, Im stumped and going to bed,

Been unplugging all the relays one by one, then measuring the voltage between the + end of fuse holder (white with black tape i think in your photo Dean) and earth... no matter what was unplugged it always measured 11.92V.

after unplugging and replugging everything, we put a new fuse in and nothing had changed, blew straight away without turning bike on.

Have I been barking up the wrong tree here and testing nothing in particular?

Might have to cancel ferry and visit the mechanics tomorrow instead...

Cheers for everyones help :D much appreciated!

Yep you been doing it wrong is my guess.

So here's the deal;

If you're blowing the fuse and it's a 15A this means it's a serious current draw. You'd only get this from the positive lead shorting to earth somewhere.

So worn wire is the likely culprit.

If this is happening with the ignition off it means it's either between the battery and the ignition, or anything that is connected through the battery on this side of the ignition switch.

Relays for lights etc that come as standard are usually on the output side of the ignition switch so ignore them.

Any relays fitted for spots or other gear that have been added afterwards and connect direct off the battery could be the problem. Disconnecting those will tell you that leads at the relay aren't touching or the relay isn't the problem.

But leads running to these could be the problem again for shorting out.

1/ ignition off

2/ Disconnect all leads from the battery that are for extras installed afterwards. If there are none then go to 3/

3/ Disconnect the positive lead off the battery and measure the resistance between this lead and earth (or negative on battery). If the reading is low you have a short. Leave the multimeter connected to this and progressivly move your way up the loom moving it around. If you pulled stuff off previously like tank etc near wires check that you hadn't pinched any. Remove whatever you need to remove to track the wire. If you come to any connectors disconnect them to see where the fault sits. You'll find it pretty quickly.

PM me if you want and I'd be happy to be on the phone as you ran through it. This is straight forward electrical diagnosis and shouldn't take long. Hopefully you find it before getting up under the ignition switch.

[Bend-it]

You're riding a GN250 from Wgtn to Chc?? Yikes!!

You bike's probably actually a transformer and is trying to save you from making such the trip!!

On the other hand, if you managed to fix it and are already there, then well done... :eek:

[Ollie.T]

You're riding a GN250 from Wgtn to Chc?? Yikes!!

You bike's probably actually a transformer and is trying to save you from making such the trip!!

On the other hand, if you managed to fix it and are already there, then well done...

Have not managed to fix it, but am in Christchurch, have work tomorrow you see...

done Christchurch - Wellington and Wellington - New Plymouth before, was not too much of a problem (except for a few hills where I couldn't go much more than 70-80ish...)

Anyway the bike is the the capable hands of the folks at Motormart - will fly back up and ride it down when its fixed. Sigh....

Thanks for everyones help last night and Dean, I have had that damn song stuck in my head all day!!! (flying on pacific blue did not help either...)

Cheers

Ollie