Coromandel board votes to ban 1080

[Bounce001]

About time

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10612995

A step in the right direction to a clean, green NZ :niceone:

[mashman]

Sweet, a friend of mine hates the stuff and has been studying the effects of various "pest" controls, including poisons, poison positioning etc... she'll be weeing in her pants with joy at this new i would think...

[Pussy]

Bugger!
Next they'll ban 2,4,5-T

[Mully]

Umm, serious question...

Is there an alternative to 1080?

And if so, why has this not been adopted previously?

EDIT: I know the article says trapping and so on, but I thought the terrain made that impractical... I understood 1080 was the "best" option for getting rid of possums

Plus, it's only a community board decision anyway.

[Blackbird]

About time

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10612995

A step in the right direction to a clean, green NZ :niceone:

The chair of the Coromandel-Colville community board is one of my neighbours. Fair to say that she doesn't practice what she preaches, certainly not with respect to the number of noxious plants on her section so it might well be a case of "do as I say, not do as I do".

Like Mully, I'm not sure whether there is an economic alternative as the debate never lets facts get in the way of rhetoric. There was a report in the local rag the other day of just how much native birdlife has sprung back in the area due to 1080 possum control!

[gatch]

Should councils spend the same amount on bounties for possums as they did on 1080, I KNOW that people would make the effort to get em, no matter what the terrain is like, this is a small step, but a positive one.

[Mully]

Should councils spend the same amount on bounties for possums as they did on 1080, I KNOW that people would make the effort to get em, no matter what the terrain is like, this is a small step, but a positive one.

I have lazily wondered about getting dead-loss teen out doing exactly that - give them a sense of purpose and gets rid of possums.

Still, today's teens......

[Hitcher]

A step in the right direction to a clean, green NZ

Rubbish. It's a retrograde step by a bunch of mental drongoes too stupid to even understand what their jurisdictional authority is. Their "ban" is meaningless.

1080 is the only product capable of eradicating possums. Any other means is at best only a way of managing possum populations. If wankers like this community board and their counterparts on the Taupo District Council think otherwise, they're deluded. Worse, they're environmental villains complicit in the degradation of native ecosystems and biodiversity.

There is a big difference between "well intentioned", ignorant and criminally insane. Somebody should vote these bozoes off at next year's local government elections before they start doing other stupid stuff.

[Hitcher]

Sweet, a friend of mine hates the stuff and has been studying the effects of various "pest" controls, including poisons, poison positioning etc... she'll be weeing in her pants with joy at this new i would think...

Has your "friend" discovered a viable option to possum eradication or is she just incontinent?

[gatch]

1080 is the only product capable of eradicating possums. Any other means is at best only a way of managing possum populations.

1080 hasn't succeeded and never will 'eradicate' possums. It may however eradicate what is left of native species which are not so hardy.

Aerial dropping 1080 is just plain criminal as you cannot guarantee where it ends up, and what is going to eat it. If bait stations are used, than surely whoever is maintaining the lines, could maintain a trap line instead, and carry a .223 and a spotlight.

I heard awhile ago, the only reason 1080 was pushed was because the 2 politicians responsible had business interests in the company that manufactures the baits. Although, having done no research into this it is only speculation..

[Headbanger]

.. she'll be weeing in her pants with joy at this news i would think...



Pics????????

[Headbanger]

1080 is the only product capable of eradicating possums. Any other means is at best only a way of managing possum populations.

Have they been eradicated anywhere?

I haven't paid much attention but the last figure I saw was a 70% reduction in numbers in areas that had 1080 dropped on them.

[McJim]

One small step for the hunters one GIANT LEAP for possum kind. Coromandel - your native birds are now officially fucked! :rofl:


Idiots.

[Oscar]

I heard awhile ago, the only reason 1080 was pushed was because the 2 politicians responsible had business interests in the company that manufactures the baits. Although, having done no research into this it is only speculation..

I note that the absence of any proof hasn't stopped you from repeating what appears to be scurrilous rumour and/or a nutbar conspiracy theory, though.

Good for you:Punk:

[Motu]

Have they been eradicated anywhere?


Yes,from islands.I don't know if 1080 was initially used,but I personally know possum hunters who were involved in Rangitoto and Motutapu,and they don't hunt possums with 1080....traps and guns are the preferred method.

[Bounce001]

Have they been eradicated anywhere?

I haven't paid much attention but the last figure I saw was a 70% reduction in numbers in areas that had 1080 dropped on them.

And at least a 70% reduction in native birds etc

[Oscar]

And at least a 70% reduction in native birds etc

(sigh) You have proof of this, of course?

[Bounce001]

(sigh) You have proof of this, of course?

The proof is when you go into the bush and it is silent

[Mully]

I note that the absence of any proof hasn't stopped you from repeating what appears to be scurrilous rumour and/or a nutbar conspiracy theory, though.

Well, it wouldn't be KB if it was researched and verified, now would it?


Yes,from islands.I don't know if 1080 was initially used,but I personally know possum hunters who were involved in Rangitoto and Motutapu,and they don't hunt possums with 1080....traps and guns are the preferred method.

I think islands are a different kettle of fish - Rangitoto isn't that big or badly terrained compared to the Coro peninsula. Plus, Rangitoto would have much more chance of runoff into the sea.

$10 says that if they go back to trapping and shooting the bastards, the hippies will complain about hurting the poor little possums - cruel and unusual punishment and the like.

[scissorhands]

'$10 says that if they go back to trapping and shooting the bastards, the hippies will complain about hurting the poor little possums - cruel and unusual punishment and the like. '

But its not hippies doing most of the complaining its hunters and farmers

Poison aint right, too indiscriminate

[Blackbird]

And at least a 70% reduction in native birds etc

Just like global warming, the facts are obscured by hype and self-interest.

Recent press statement:
Forest & Bird warn: without 1080, the forests will fall silent

As the debate over the use of 1080 poison rages on, Forest and Bird and Federated Farmers have jointly endorsed its continued use.

“It’s this simple: if we don’t continue to use 1080 to control pests, we run the risk that in 20 years most of our forests will fall silent,” warns Helen Bain on behalf of Forest and Bird and Federated Farmers.

Here's the summary of a University of Auckland study:

IMPACTS OF AERIAL 1080 POISONING ON THE BIRDS OF
RANGITOTO ISLAND, HAURAKI GULF, NEW ZEALAND
Summary: Bird populations were monitored for one year (October 1990-October 1991) to determine whether the
1080 poison used to eradicate possums and wallabies on Rangitoto Island had had any detrimental effects on them.
There was no significant decline in bird numbers recorded immediately after poisoning, with four species increasing
in abundance (P<0.001). Twelve months after the operation the abundance of four species had increased
significantly (P<0.001). The poisoning does not appear to have had any negative effect on the bird populations of
Rangitoto, while the removal of browsing mammals may in future prove to have beneficial effects.


It seems to me as a complete layman that the impact of 1080 might vary from area to area but it's certainly not universally the spawn of the devil.

Opinions are worthless without hard evidence!

[Oscar]

The proof is when you go into the bush and it is silent

Your senile deafness is not evidence...

[Pwalo]

[QUOTE=Blackbird;1129549508]Just like global warming, the facts are obscured by hype and self-interest.

Recent press statement:
Forest & Bird warn: without 1080, the forests will fall silent

As the debate over the use of 1080 poison rages on, Forest and Bird and Federated Farmers have jointly endorsed its continued use.

“It’s this simple: if we don’t continue to use 1080 to control pests, we run the risk that in 20 years most of our forests will fall silent,” warns Helen Bain on behalf of Forest and Bird and Federated Farmers.

QUOTE]

Yep that's my understanding of the matter. 1080 has been, and will continue to be the most effective way of dealing with possums. At least until we can come up with a way of shipping them to Oz where they like them a bit more.

[Dadpole]

The proof is when you go into the bush and it is silent

I spend a lot of time in the Tararuas, and areas where no 1080 is dropped are silent too.
I have seen the results of an intensive 5 year trapping and hand laid poison campaign (http://nzda.wellington.net.nz/About_Us.html See Conservation) and while impressive, it focused a lot of resources in a small area.
To repeat that over a large area would be impossible without a (very) large bank balance.
In my view, though I hate to see it done, 1080 is the only solution at present.

[Headbanger]

So, In conclusion

1080 Rocks like a white motherfucker in a land grab.:wari::wari::wari:

[The Pastor]

Yes,from islands.I don't know if 1080 was initially used,but I personally know possum hunters who were involved in Rangitoto and Motutapu,and they don't hunt possums with 1080....traps and guns are the preferred method.
my mates makes a killing off trapping. its a single mans game tho

[Hitcher]

1080 hasn't succeeded and never will 'eradicate' possums. It may however eradicate what is left of native species which are not so hardy.

Aerial dropping 1080 is just plain criminal as you cannot guarantee where it ends up, and what is going to eat it. If bait stations are used, than surely whoever is maintaining the lines, could maintain a trap line instead, and carry a .223 and a spotlight.

I heard awhile ago, the only reason 1080 was pushed was because the 2 politicians responsible had business interests in the company that manufactures the baits. Although, having done no research into this it is only speculation..

Nonsense. While there is definitely by-kill in a 1080 operation, the recovery of native bird species subsequently is spectacular. DoC and regional councils can vouch for that claim. Why do they know? Because they monitor numbers before and after. If nongs with burrs up their bums and nothing other than hearsay to back up their largely fraudulent claims want to piss all over evidence-based science, then they'll get a rise from me every time.

[Pussy]

Methinks there are some who don't quite understand what sort of a problem possums REALLY are, too

[Motu]

my mates makes a killing off trapping. its a single mans game tho


Human trapping has very human faults.....greed.In the early days of bounty trapping,while they were taking skins in one area....they were releasing possums in another,guaranteeing future income.For trapping to work the income will be very good,then get less and less....then after one skin a week you are out of a job.Time to retrain as another faceless IT worker.

The islands worked because they were small scale - to go after 70 million possums is serious big scale.It can be done - send a hundred or more guys into an area,and take the fuckers out by hand one at a time until the place is clean....then move on.But there has to be a future for these guys beyond a good income while the job is on.I don't think this government has the guts to future proof the life of the people who commit to the task.

[Headbanger]

But there has to be a future for these guys beyond a good income while the job is on.I don't think this government has the guts to future proof the life of the people who commit to the task.

Uh, Why should they?, Plenty of people take on short term contracts knowing full well when the job is done they will need to move in another direction, No need for the Government to or anyone else to hand some a life plan for doing a job with a finite time span.

[Motu]

Then it won't happen will it - incentives (money!!!) gets things happening.And that's what caused them to keep the possum population steady....to keep the good money coming in.Think outside the box....not possible in this country.

[Headbanger]

You mean bribe them with future work to ensure they don't sabotage the eradication scheme in order to guarantee themselves a future source of income?

Fuck thats weak, How about any fucker seen releasing possums is shot in the head and hung in a tree as an example to other shitheads.

[Motu]

Worked for the miners - $86,000 for a 3 day week.....but most important of all secured a good redundancy deal,they are working themselves out of a job.

[Ixion]

Human trapping has very human faults.....greed.In the early days of bounty trapping,while they were taking skins in one area....they were releasing possums in another,guaranteeing future income.For trapping to work the income will be very good,then get less and less....then after one skin a week you are out of a job.Time to retrain as another faceless IT worker.

The islands worked because they were small scale - to go after 70 million possums is serious big scale.It can be done - send a hundred or more guys into an area,and take the fuckers out by hand one at a time until the place is clean....then move on.But there has to be a future for these guys beyond a good income while the job is on.I don't think this government has the guts to future proof the life of the people who commit to the task.

Hm. 100 guys. 70 million possums. Say 20 possums per guy per day . Thats 35000 days work, per man . At 200 working days per year thats 175 years of work for every man in the team. Um, how much future do they want. Admittedly getting that last possum in 175 years time is going to be a bit competative.

[Motu]

I'm liberal - we'll allow women into the teams,in 175 years there will be 70 million possum hunters.

[Ixion]

Yeah right.

So , what percenatge of time d' y' think the teams would spend hunting possums, versus what percentage of time shagging

I bet the possums can shag faster than the hunters. They'll win.

[Blackbird]

I bet the possums can shag faster than the hunters. They'll win.

Yup, until the scientists come up with a genetic means of introducing sterility into the population, eradication is impossible. Control IS possible, maybe only with 1080 though.

[Mully]

Yup, until the scientists come up with a genetic means of introducing sterility into the population, eradication is impossible. Control IS possible, maybe only with 1080 though.

Or we could pay someone to go round kicking all the male possums in the bollocks..... :laugh:

Marginally off topic, but IMHO a genetic solution where NZ should be focussing it's attentions - scientific solutions to problems.

I worry about NZ having all it's eggs in the agricultural basket to try be a world player. There are so many ways that could turn to shit in an instant.

[Hitcher]

a genetic solution where NZ should be focussing it's attentions - scientific solutions to problems.

The Greens only believe in science when it suits them. For some unexplainable reason they are opposed to genetic modification. By unexplicable I mean due to perverse ignorance.

[McJim]

We are still using 1080 down here. I'm glad they will stop in Coromandel because the resultant total loss of native bird life will prove once and for all that the chest beating was being done by a few hunters with self interest at heart....along the following lines...

"I want to shoot deer and possums in my spare time. If my dog eats a poisoned possum it will die. If the deer eat 1080 carrots they will die. Damn - they are pissing on my bonfire. Lets get the hippy pressure groups to cook up some lies like Greenpeace do and ban 1080 so we can have all the hunting we want and let our dogs go nuts in the wilderness. Native birdlife? Doesn't mean anything to me - fuckem."

This is the REAL argument. Do you subscribe to the above? Then ban 1080 otherwise we NEED to eradicate the Possums and that can only currently be done with 1080 drops AND a trapping strategy.

[Mully]

The Greens only believe in science when it suits them. For some unexplainable reason they are opposed to genetic modification. By unexplicable I mean due to perverse ignorance.

And the Greens seem to have ignored that humans have been genetically modifying stuff for eons, but never mind.

(Actually, an older guy I work with was telling me about bananas with little black seeds in them the other day - strange to me, but there you go)