Time for a NZ Motorcycle Alliance?

[Conquiztador]

I am far from a political animal. If I am honest I more often than not could not give a shit who is running the country, as the way I see it is "same shit different package".

And initially I took the same view re this ACC issue. I was reasoning: "Get's rid of the ones who are not dedicated", and I was gonna ride anyhow. Paid up Rego or not. Why change a life attitude this late?

But then the ACC adverts got me peed off. They were using my money to place adverts against me. How dare they!

So I got involved.

Now the AA stance has me gobsmacked! They do very little for bikers, and now they suddenly have an opinion???

As a biker I have noticed BRONZ, Ulysses and the bike arm of the NZ Motor Trade Assosiation (I think it was?) taking a stance in the "war" against the proposed unjustified ACC levies.

But where is MNZ in this? Does BEARS have an opinion? What about tyre shops, as I assume they belong to some type of association. And individual MCC's. Even the 1%'s. Surely they have an opinion? (OK, so many of the individuals from these clubs/organisations are involved, but if the club/organisation had an official standpoint it would weigh so much more!)

I can understand the lack of interest for individuals to join up with another club/organisation than the one they belong to. But if the local MotoX club was affiliated to a "NZ Motorcycle Alliance", then it would be straightforward. And suddenly we would have a force to recon with... (And a database of clubs/organisations would be available for the Alliance to send info like in this ACC issue).

[White trash]

Quite frankly, this should be a job for MNZ, it's supposed to represent all New Zealand motorcyclists. The problem is, MNZ are that caught up in their own political shit internally, they probably don't realize there's an ACC Levy hike on the way.

[Mully]

I am far from a political animal.

Really? You should be. I've found you an "artist's impression"

I agree with White Trash - MNZ should be leading the charge.

That being said, BRONZ seem to be doing a stellar job.

[Voltaire]

I'm guessing that motorcycle racers have private insurance to cover their risky activities.....:rolleyes:

When I lived in Ireland, we had to stump up 5 euros if the kids went of field trips.... to cover the additional risk over and above the usual.

[Conquiztador]

Really? You should be. I've found you an "artist's impression"

I agree with White Trash - MNZ should be leading the charge.

That being said, BRONZ seem to be doing a stellar job.

AHHH! You got my better side too! ;)

Yes, BRONZ is working hard here and doing well. But their membership is individuals. I think an Alliance where a club/organisation belongs to, and as you become member of that club you automatically are a member of the Alliance, would be the way to go.

Imagine a statement like: "NZMA, with a combined membership of 347 New Zealand motorcycle associations and clubs representing 350,000 individual members, fully oppose the proposed ACC levies".

[Sidewinder]

I'm guessing that motorcycle racers have private insurance to cover their risky activities.....:rolleyes:

When I lived in Ireland, we had to stump up 5 euros if the kids went of field trips.... to cover the additional risk over and above the usual.

not in nz its corved by acc

[Pixie]

Join The Provos

Provisional MAG

[NighthawkNZ]

I have been wanting to start the MANZ. Motorcycle Association New Zealand. Biker version of AA and be in association with all the other Associations and clubs etc... http://www.southernrider.co.nz/forum/download/file.php?id=1295

Bikers against ACC Levies also want to actually start a political party MPP
http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz/docs/mpp.pdf

[flyingcrocodile46]

IMO we would be better off being more consistently supportive of the existing motorcycle associations.

If they aren't everything we want now, it's simply because WE haven't bothered to join them, participate in monthly meetings and AGM's and actively promote all the good ideas that we seem to have when the going is tougher (like now).

Have a look at what's involved in setting up a club/association. It's a lot of work and you will likely find that by the time it's done, the current crisis will be over.

Use the tools we have, and put a bit more effort into maintaining them to keep them sharp.

[Genestho]

Alliance is the only way, said that more than once.

MNZ was quoted in the Herald? I think? When the announcments were first made, against the rises.
MNZ were one one of the first to comment.

And Submission details (http://www.mnz.co.nz/newsDetail.aspx?SectionID=29&ArticleID=31584)

[Conquiztador]

Alliance is the only way, said that more than once.

MNZ, Pav was quoted in the Herald? I think? When the announcments were first made, against the rises.
MNZ were one one of the first to comment.

I have found the following on MNZ website. The entry is dated 4 December. Not been able to find anything older than that.

Here:

"SUBMISSION TO ACC


DECEMBER 4, 2009: The Board of Motorcycle New Zealand (MNZ) recognises that a large number of their members own road registered motorcycles and that the proposed changes to the ACC levies will have a major effect on their activities.



Motorcycling New Zealand has made a submission to ACC on the proposed classification and levy changes for road registered motorcycles. We believe that the methodology used in the formation of the proposed changes fails to recognise a number of significant facts and anecdotal evidence supports this.



Motorcycling New Zealand has advised that it would welcome the opportunity to be involved with ACC and other stakeholders in all groups that are involved in:



1) The formation of an appropriate funding formula that recognises both the requirements of ACC and the interests of motorcyclists.



2) Improving the quality of the vehicle fleet.



3) Improving rider abilities, competency and safety.



4) Improving the roading network to reduce ‘black spot’ injuries and deaths"


But we are still talking about organisations/clubs working alone apart from some contact. I am talking about something much bigger. Something that encompasses (sp?) ALL bike riders in NZ.

There is endless opportunities: set up insurance, have buying power, start a road rescue, run training, lobby government, be asked re initiatives, be not4profit and able to get funding, etc.

The time has come, a sleeping giant has been awakened...

[Conquiztador]

IMO we would be better off being more consistently supportive of the existing motorcycle associations.

If they aren't everything we want now, it's simply because WE haven't bothered to join them, participate in monthly meetings and AGM's and actively promote all the good ideas that we seem to have when the going is tougher (like now).

Have a look at what's involved in setting up a club/association. It's a lot of work and you will likely find that by the time it's done, the current crisis will be over.

Use the tools we have, and put a bit more effort into maintaining them to keep them sharp.

I hear you. But you are missing the point a fraction. What I am proposing is not a organisation made up of individuals. It is an Alliance of excisting clubs/organisations and would not have to fight to get members. It would be a "umbrella" organisation that would lobby and work on behalf of the organisations/clubs that are part of alliance. The alliance in it self would have no opinion re any of the issues going on and not make decisions on behalf of the members. It would be there to forward their view with all that having a big voice represents.

And there is not that much in to starting a organisation. I have done that more than once. Constitution, members, register and you are away. (OK, that is simplyfied, but the rest is just details).

[Genestho]

I wandered off and found same thing lol.

I'm not sure what an umbrella would further acheive apart from info sharing?
I thought you meant alliance as in alignment.

MNZ can obviously lobby as can BRONZ, for the sake of lobbying - groups are better seperated and are more efficient saying the same thing, in different words - than one single voice. A layering affect.
An umbrella still ends up as one entity.

[Conquiztador]

I wandered off and found same thing lol.

I'm not sure what an umbrella would further acheive apart from info sharing?
I thought you meant alliance as in alignment.

MNZ can obviously lobby as can BRONZ, for the sake of lobbying - groups are better seperated and are more efficient saying the same thing, in different words - than one single voice. A layering affect.
An umbrella still ends up as one entity.

Numbers. It is all about numbers. BRONZ has members. So has Ulysses. And every club in the country. But not all have voiced their opinion. Many because they are busy doing what they do (MotoX, trials, RR, social rides, etc.) I am not saying that they would give away anything they stand for or do currently. Each and everyone would still have the right to their own voice.

Think about the petition. A umbrella organisation could forward this to each of the clubs/organisations in NZ that would get their individual members to sign, then it would be returned to the umbrella org. and taken in.

Bikers are solitary (sp?) and the hearding cats is a fair view. But if something like this was in place, then it would be too big to ignore.

[Genestho]

Numbers. It is all about numbers. BRONZ has members. So has Ulysses. And every club in the country. But not all have voiced their opinion. Many because they are busy doing what they do (MotoX, trials, RR, social rides, etc.) I am not saying that they would give away anything they stand for or do currently. Each and everyone would still have the right to their own voice.

Think about the petition. A umbrella organisation could forward this to each of the clubs/organisations in NZ that would get their individual members to sign, then it would be returned to the umbrella org. and taken in.

Bikers are solitary (sp?) and the hearding cats is a fair view. But if something like this was in place, then it would be too big to ignore.

Not knocking the idea - but hmmm I don't think the work, costs and people needed - involved to setup an umbrella is necesary, when essentially it comes down to info sharing amongst groups.

The umbrella would still be doing the same jobs as say for example BRONZ (sorry to speak on behalf of) who I imagine comb media, do research, analyse data, meet with interested parties etc, all of this to stay ahead of the game and up to date (and if the umbrella didn't do this work, then it would be less informed than the groups it represents)

Also the nice thing about group alignment is that many groups have eyes on many balls.
Perhaps a centralised data sharing system, but even then there are still places setup with information?

[flyingcrocodile46]

I hear you. But you are missing the point a fraction. What I am proposing is not a organisation made up of individuals. It is an Alliance of excisting clubs/organisations and would not have to fight to get members. It would be a "umbrella" organisation that would lobby and work on behalf of the organisations/clubs that are part of alliance. The alliance in it self would have no opinion re any of the issues going on and not make decisions on behalf of the members. It would be there to forward their view with all that having a big voice represents.

And there is not that much in to starting a organisation. I have done that more than once. Constitution, members, register and you are away. (OK, that is simplyfied, but the rest is just details).

Good luck on trying to...
1. Organise agreement of all the clubs etc to join the alliance in the first place

and

2. Good luck on getting agreement between them on what views should be forwarded.

[Squiggles]

Informally i suspect they do exist...

[Conquiztador]

Not knocking the idea - but hmmm I don't think the work, costs and people needed - involved to setup an umbrella is necesary, when essentially it comes down to info sharing amongst groups.

The umbrella would still be doing the same jobs as say for example BRONZ (sorry to speak on behalf of) who I imagine comb media, do research, analyse data, meet with interested parties etc, all of this to stay ahead of the game and up to date (and if the umbrella didn't do this work, then it would be less informed than the groups it represents)

Also the nice thing about group alignment is that many groups have eyes on many balls.
Perhaps a centralised data sharing system, but even then there are still places setup with information?

What I am proposing would be to 100% driven by the members (clubs/organisations) and run by them w/o each and every one of them needing to have all the information and expertise to do so. As a N4P organisation the Alliance could get funding (and as it is not a sport club/organisation) it would, in the current climate, help here. There would be a token yearly fee from each club/organisation to belong. Only other thing a club/organisation would have to do is to provide a contact detail and a yearly membership figure. And thats it.

Apart from being up to date with issues, the Alliance would not start anything w/o the members asking for it. Membership mandate would drive it all.

I might be ahead of my time. But I think this is needed as in my chrystal ball I can se much more roadblocks for bikers in a near future.

[scissorhands]

I'm for including cyclists, they want something too. Two Wheeled Commuters Association of NZ ish. The Association could be very powerful with a large membership.

[zahria]

I'm for including cyclists, they want something too. Two Wheeled Commuters Association of NZ ish. The Association could be very powerful with a large membership.

I reckon you might be on to something here, there'd be a pretty good number on two wheels, Be something to have on the cards when ACC get around to hitting cyclists in the pocket as well.

[Pedrostt500]

I've been thinking about starting a political party, and calling it The Bastards Party, But National seems to beat me to most of the policies. Might just form the Pedrostt500 Junta, but then I would have to get a uniform for my Secret Police, lots of Gold Braid.

[98tls]

Interesting thread C,Theres is however im guessing many more motorcyclists out there that dont belong to a club/group etc than do methinks,i and not one of the guys in my social circle (or whatever) dont,various reasons,group rides suck blah blah,how do you get that group of potential voters involved?

[Pixie]

Interesting thread C,Theres is however im guessing many more motorcyclists out there that dont belong to a club/group etc than do methinks,i and not one of the guys in my social circle (or whatever) dont,various reasons,group rides suck blah blah,how do you get that group of potential voters involved?
Let them know that Land Transport has plans to eliminate motorcycling in NZ by 2050

[grbaker]

NZMA - Sounds like a good idea.

I wasn't surprised by AA opinion, especially since they are vendor agents of LTSA for all of our licenses. Of course they would agree with their biggest customer (no not you, the Govt).

Good road services from AA went out the windows about the same time they took over the licensing stuff.

[Hitcher]

Sometimes some Kiwi Biker members really fuck me off.

Currently there is a bunch of associations that are elected to represent the interests of motorcyclists and which are open to anybody sufficiently interested to get off their arses, pay a subscription and rock along to meetings. This includes BRONZ, MNZ, Ulysses, HOG, WIMA and others I may have overlooked. Indeed it could be argued that this plethora of representation mirrors the tribalism that will be motorcycling's undoing.

But do bikers actively support these organisations in numbers that will allow them to succeed? Fuck off.

Where's the fun and that? It's too easy to bitch and moan about hidden agendas, dickhead presidents, "that lot" and all manner of conspiracy theories instead.

Running incorporated societies that leverage dedicated volunteers to get things done is not easy. Indeed about three years ago I was involved in winding one up. People were happy to support our events and even pay their subs, but we couldn't get enough people to step forward and serve as directors, hence the decision to wind up.

The ACC levies catastrophuck is the first issue I've seen in many years that has galvanised all bikers. It should have demonstrated the value biker organisations have in making collective submissions and acting as an effective public voice. Once 1 July 2010 has passed and we're all staring down the barrel of large ACC levy increases and have accepted these as a reality, we'll all return to our bitchy backstabbing ways.

We don't need leadership. Indeed we fart in its general direction. Fuck us all and the horses we rode in on. We deserve everything we get, such is our hopelessness.

[short-circuit]

Sometimes some Kiwi Biker members really fuck me off.

Currently there is a bunch of associations that are elected to represent the interests of motorcyclists and which are open to anybody sufficiently interested to get off their arses, pay a subscription and rock along to meetings. This includes BRONZ, MNZ, Ulysses, HOG, WIMA and others I may have overlooked. Indeed it could be argued that this plethora of representation mirrors the tribalism that will be motorcycling's undoing.

But do bikers actively support these organisations in numbers that will allow them to succeed? Fuck off.

Where's the fun and that? It's too easy to bitch and moan about hidden agendas, dickhead presidents, "that lot" and all manner of conspiracy theories instead.

Running incorporated societies that leverage dedicated volunteers to get things done is not easy. Indeed about three years ago I was involved in winding one up. People were happy to support our events and even pay their subs, but we couldn't get enough people to step forward and serve as directors, hence the decision to wind up.

The ACC levies catastrophuck is the first issue I've seen in many years that has galvanised all bikers. It should have demonstrated the value biker organisations have in making collective submissions and acting as an effective public voice. Once 1 July 2010 has passed and we're all staring down the barrel of large ACC levy increases and have accepted these as a reality, we'll all return to our bitchy backstabbing ways.

We don't need leadership. Indeed we fart in its general direction. Fuck us all and the horses we rode in on. We deserve everything we get, such is our hopelessness.

Call him a Waaaaaambulance - quick

[Conquiztador]

Sometimes some Kiwi Biker members really fuck me off.

Currently there is a bunch of associations........We deserve everything we get, such is our hopelessness.

You are not far of the truth. But this is why I here propose a membership that only relies on clubs. To race in MotoX you need to be a club member. To do Trials you need to be a club member and so on. As most (if not all) clubs are run by the most dedicated club members we would already have the most active ones looking after the members and not have to rely on the ones who could not give a shit and who only are members to be able to ride/race.

Then how the Alliance steering committe is set up would be all up to what would work best. A separate committee, using the most dedicated members from the membership clubs, or any other setup that would work. As long as the ones that were in charge of the Alliance would be interested and active in making sure that the best interest of all NZ bikers was served.

As mentioned, I am probably before my time here, but it would, to me, make sense.

[Squiggles]

But do bikers actively support these organisations in numbers that will allow them to succeed? Fuck off.

Hopefully all those whom voted @ the BRONZ meeting joined on the night :whistle:

[short-circuit]

As mentioned, I am probably before my time here.

Can I have your autograph?

[Conquiztador]

Can I have your autograph?

Do I detect a sprinkle of sarcasm there????

[scissorhands]

Maybe some alliance is already appearing from the vapours. Its structure only starting to take shape...getting everyone under the same roof is a good idea, then theres also other diverse ACC affected groups

[AD345]

Unlikely to happen over just a cost increase (IMO anyway).
Better that BRONZ et.al try to join with the CTU and others to fight on a broader front in this particular case.
To get the likes of an ABATE off the ground (which is what I think you're looking at) you need an issue that is seen as threatening bikers/motorcyclists "rights"
The levies just hit our wallets.
If the fight is about ACC and not just the levies then the attack needs to be more than just us

[Conquiztador]

Unlikely to happen over just a cost increase (IMO anyway).
Better that BRONZ et.al try to join with the CTU and others to fight on a broader front in this particular case.
To get the likes of an ABATE off the ground (which is what I think you're looking at) you need an issue that is seen as threatening bikers/motorcyclists "rights"
The levies just hit our wallets.
If the fight is about ACC and not just the levies then the attack needs to be more than just us

And that's cool. So it should be. Bikers joining forces with other groups that are affected.

But if you think that the only thing that ever will happen to bikers is this one ACC increase, then you will get a shock. Have a look at some of the European countries and what is in place there. In Germany you can not do any modifications/changes to bikes. Not allowed to change handlebars, tank, footpegs, muffler etc. w/o re-certification. In Finland you have to start riding with a 125cc or smaller bike. For two years before moving up. And there is heaps more. Before you know it we will have it here. And more. To fight it we need to have the numbers and the cohesion.

One day you will sit there and say: "There was this old guy on KB that wanted us to unite to have a stronger voice. If we only had listened..."

[Farab]

And that's cool. So it should be. Bikers joining forces with other groups that are affected.

But if you think that the only thing that ever will happen to bikers is this one ACC increase, then you will get a shock. Have a look at some of the European countries and what is in place there. In Germany you can not do any modifications/changes to bikes. Not allowed to change handlebars, tank, footpegs, muffler etc. w/o re-certification. In Finland you have to start riding with a 125cc or smaller bike. For two years before moving up. And there is heaps more. Before you know it we will have it here. And more. To fight it we need to have the numbers and the cohesion.

One day you will sit there and say: "There was this old guy on KB that wanted us to unite to have a stronger voice. If we only had listened..." I like your idea. I'm just thinking why have a "NZ Motorcycle Alliance" and not a "NZ Alliance" Why don't we form a more generalised lobby group to tackle all these sorts of attacks against us? That's why they get away with bullshit left right and center, because there is no united front against laws and regulations they churn out every 5 minutes. The old established groups are too specific and therefore lack membership IMO. The problem is people need to get it through their heads, that whatever issue is NOT effecting them today is not the point, but that there may be an issue that effects them tomorrow and belonging to a general alliance/lobby group would be so much better, or are the majority just to apathetic?

[drummer]

belonging to a general alliance/lobby group would be so much better, or are the majority just to apathetic?
Its called a political party... theres already so many we don't need more.. we need voices inside the existing ones to instigate change

Use what we have... to our advantage

Peter

[scissorhands]

I'm not sure I would want to be assimilated with much of the existing political flocks. Too fundamental either way

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner.