New ACC motorcycle levies confirmed

[RentaTriumph]

The Government has pegged back big hikes to ACC levies proposed by the corporation, particularly for motorcyclists.

Confirming the new levies today, ACC Minister Nick Smith said registration rates for motorcycles would range from $327.70 to $426.92, compared with rates of between $511.43 and $745.77 under rates proposed by ACC. But that is still an increase of between $75 and $174 for the owners of petrol powered motorcycles.

Registration costs for petrol powered cars will rise to $198.46 – up about $30 on the current rate but less than the $272.72 proposed by ACC. For non-petrol cars, the rate has risen $311.38, up from $279.09.

The work levy has gone up to $1.47 for every $100 of payroll, compared with $1.31 now.

The earners levy has risen to $2 for every $100 earned, compared with $1.70 now.

Dr Smith said the levy increases were necessary because ACC’s claim costs had increased by 57 per cent in the past four years.

He said the Government had opted for more moderate motorcycle levy increases than ACC recommended but his message to motorcyclists was that the escalating costs of motorcycle accidents could not be ignored.

[Dadpole]

Still too much. We also have to watch out for the bastards trying to increase them by stealth - IE six months from now, quietly put them up by $100.

[sleemanj]

ACC Minister Nick Smith said registration rates for motorcycles would range from $327.70 to $426.92, compared with rates of between $511.43 and $745.77 under rates proposed by ACC. But that is still an increase of between $75 and $174 for the owners of petrol powered motorcycles.

Better, but still bad...
1. No justification for increases in general.
2. No justification for disparity in engine capacity with regard levy size.
3. Continuing departure from ACC's no fault basis.

[James Deuce]

Nick Smith is still propagating the lie that we have 5000 injury accidents instead of 400.

<div><object width="420" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x2nb0r" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x2nb0r" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="339" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x2nb0r">Liar</a></b><br /><i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Beckylooo">Beckylooo</a></i></div>

[Mully]

Ya beat me to it...


Still too much. We also have to watch out for the bastards trying to increase them by stealth - IE six months from now, quietly put them up by $100.

Eggs Zachary.

[Naki Rat]

The Government has pegged back big hikes to ACC levies proposed by the corporation, particularly for motorcyclists.

Confirming the new levies today, ACC Minister Nick Smith said registration rates for motorcycles would range from $327.70 to $426.92, compared with rates of between $511.43 and $745.77 under rates proposed by ACC. But that is still an increase of between $75 and $174 for the owners of petrol powered motorcycles.

Registration costs for petrol powered cars will rise to $198.46 – up about $30 on the current rate but less than the $272.72 proposed by ACC. For non-petrol cars, the rate has risen (to?) $311.38, up from $279.09.

The work levy has gone up to $1.47 for every $100 of payroll, compared with $1.31 now.

The earners levy has risen to $2 for every $100 earned, compared with $1.70 now.

Dr Smith said the levy increases were necessary because ACC’s claim costs had increased by 57 per cent in the past four years.

He said the Government had opted for more moderate motorcycle levy increases than ACC recommended but his message to motorcyclists was that the escalating costs of motorcycle accidents could not be ignored.

Waiting for more details but it would appear that smaller motorcycles have borne the brunt of the increases. Perhaps aimed at deterring learners from this 'dangerous passtime' ?

[Laxi]

He said the Government had opted for more moderate motorcycle levy increases than ACC recommended but his message to motorcyclists was that the escalating costs of motorcycle accidents could not be ignored.

yep it's true that payouts for motorbikes have risen, but then its true that so have the number of bikes registered there for the ammount paid in levies has risen too:no: theres still the little problem of national trying to change the whole idealology of ACC too

[Azi Dahaka]

sad thing is we are still being hit hard by the work and earners leveies as well with their increases

[Devil]

Cool. So it looks like it's ONLY twice as much as the car levy.

Not acceptable.

[Mully]

Looks like another round of e-mails is in order.......

[pzkpfw]

Link to stuff: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3147870/ACC-levy-hikes-pegged-back

[Rev DJ]

We can put the smaller reductions down as a definite win for NZ's biking fraternity - but it is only one battle that we have won - not the war!! The concept of having to pay more at all is still unjustified and needs continued pressure.

We still want a zero increase, we are not Trout, and we are angry... Rev

[oldrider]

I withdraw that remark your honour but alas, the stain remains!

Oldest union trick in the book, want 2% ask for 20%, satisfaction @ 5%!

Not impressed with Mr Nick and Co. :spanking:

[Headbanger]

Doesn't please me in the slightest, Fuck em.

Whats next?

The fuse is lit, Just point me in the right direction.

[Bodir]

Remember the protest on the 19th :niceone: in Auckland

[Mully]

Additonal bit added to the Stuff page:


BIKERS MULL NEW LEVIES

Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand president Les Mason, one of the organisers of last month's protests, said the hikes were "liveable with".

"We're pleased that the Minister has recognised that the original ACC proposals were unjustifiable but that is still a very substantial levy hike."

He said bikers harboured concerns that further hikes would be proposed next year.

"They haven't got what they wanted this time so it seems a pretty likely bet that they'll try for it again next year."

He would not comment on whether protests would carry on, saying it would be up to the BRONZ membership.

"Obviously the motorcyclists of New Zealand will be having a think about that over the next couple of days and they'll come back to their representatives and tell us what they want to do," he said.

"We need to make it clear to ACC that this is not something they can try again."

[Azi Dahaka]

http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/QuestionsandAnswers.pdf

here is the acc information have a read there are still three categories mopheads(49cc) 50-600cc and 601cc+

Edit:dont be demoralised it is only 8 pages long just the 8 pages repeat for some strange stuff.com reason

[James Deuce]

http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/QuestionsandAnswers.pdf

here is the acc information have a read there are still three categories mopheads(49cc) 50-600cc and 601cc+

Ooo, maybe a few pointed comments about the origin of the cc limits in the previous proposal went in. I still think it telegraphs a move to a 125cc learner law.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

I may well get flamed for saying this, I don't mind paying more, than cars, AS LONG AS IT FUNDS MOTORCYCLE AWARENESS CAMPAIGNS, FOR CAR DRIVERS.

But, we should still campaign for the removal of Motorcycles as a seperate pool/ rate if this isn't the case.

Sorry for shouting.

[Azi Dahaka]

i like this one

10. How has the rate for motorcycles been set?
Different risk factors are applied to different classes of motor vehicle based on an
assessment of accident risk. A 50% factor has been applied to mopeds, a 150%
factor to motorcycles up to 600cc, and 200% for motorcycles over 601cc, plus a
specific $30 per bike safety levy. Other motor vehicles such as goods service
vehicles also face a risk factor based on an assessment of higher risk. This
approach to setting motorcycle levies on relativity to the standard motor vehicle is
intended to apply into the future.

from the link i posted before

[Azi Dahaka]

and this is just halerious


The Government does not believe that there are sufficient motorcycles in the 50-
125cc range to justify a separate class, so has opted for a single class for
motorcycles up to 600cc.

[Squiggles]

Still waiting to hear back re safety initiatives...

Still too large when they do so little and waste so much.

[firefighter]

But that is still an increase of between $75 and $174 for the owners of petrol powered motorcycles.

I just checked online and a years Reg is $321. So it's actually an increase of $105 if it goes up to $426.....

Or did I read it wrong?

[James Deuce]

I may well get flamed for saying this, I don't mind paying more, than cars, AS LONG AS IT FUNDS MOTORCYCLE AWARENESS CAMPAIGNS, FOR CAR DRIVERS.

But, we should still campaign for the removal of Motorcycles as a seperate pool/ rate if this isn't the case.

Sorry for shouting.

You really are a muppet.

[Azi Dahaka]

Still waiting to hear back re safety initiatives...

Still too large when they do so little and waste so much.

it is in that document

13. Why is the Government proposing to ring-fence $30 of the
moped/motorcycle levy increase for injury prevention?
Motorcycle clubs like Ulysses and BRONZ have indicated a strong interest in working
with ACC on improving motorcycle safety, and have been critical of the small sum of
approximately $250,000 per year that has historically been spent on injury
prevention.
The Transport Accident Commission in Victoria, Australia introduced a motorcycle
safety levy of $49.50 for every motorbike to create a targeted fund to improve
motorcycle safety (see (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Motorcycles/). While
overall motorcycle fatalities in Australia have grown similarly to New Zealand, Victoria
has achieved a 20% reduction.
The new ring-fenced fund of $3 million per annum will be modelled on the Victorian
experience. The Government will be inviting representatives of motorcyclists to
assist in ensuring the funds are well targeted at the sorts of training, information, and
road improvements that will be effective.

[neels]

I just checked online and a years Reg is $321. So it's actually an increase of $105 if it goes up to $426.....

Or did I read it wrong?
The original post has cars at $198, but it's already $247 so is that figure just the ACC levy part of the cost, not the total you will pay at the post office.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicle/registration-licensing/fees.html

[Squiggles]

The Government will be inviting representatives of motorcyclists to assist in ensuring the funds are well targeted at the sorts of training, information, and road improvements that will be effective.

Ill await the call then :msn-wink: Expect much to be squandered as is the case in the current setup

[MSTRS]

I don't give a fuck what the actual rise is...that prick was given notice on 17th Nov and at all opportunities before and since. He knows what he was likely to stir up with any increase at all (beyond that applied to cars, for 'fairness's sake :cool:) so he will now reap the benefit of his ill-judged decision.
CUNT!!

[Naki Rat]

http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/QuestionsandAnswers.pdf

here is the acc information have a read there are still three categories mopheads(49cc) 50-600cc and 601cc+

Goods Service vehicles pay a higher levy than 600+cc MCs - potential ally in ongoing protest ? The tradesmen's trucks and vans are high risk???

In answer to Question 12 we have an 'official' 55% of MC accidents involving another vehicle having no rider fault. Final sentence "No matter which way the analysis is done, motorcycles are higher risk". Combine those two and we are paying more for being the victim :no:

[Waxxa]

Better, but still bad...
1. No justification for increases in general.
2. No justification for disparity in engine capacity with regard levy size.
3. Continuing departure from ACC's no fault basis.

+1
Protests' to continue...until a more equatable levy can be set for all road users.

...and its' more about the philosophy of ACC that we need to fight for now

[sleemanj]

In answer to Question 12 we have an 'official' 55% of MC accidents involving another vehicle having no rider fault. Final sentence "No matter which way the analysis is done, motorcycles are higher risk". Combine those two and we are paying more for being the victim :no:

Careful on the wording there, they are not saying 55% of motorcycle accidents are not the bikers fault. They are saying 55% of the accidents which involved a another vehicle are not the bikers fault.

[NighthawkNZ]

Nick Smith is still propagating the lie that we have 5000 injury accidents instead of 400.




I am going to write a letter to Nix Myth and just ask one question.

Why do you lie so much?

[MSTRS]

+1
Protests' to continue...until a more equatable levy can be set for all road users.
Abso-fucking-lutely.


+1
...and its' more about the philosophy of ACC that we need to fight for nowAnd that is something that we have already been arguing.

[Naki Rat]

I just checked online and a years Reg is $321. So it's actually an increase of $105 if it goes up to $426.....

Or did I read it wrong?

The amounts quoted are ACC levies only. They will have other rego charges added followed by GST so $426 will likely end up as $600+ total rego charge :buggerd:

[Ixion]

Phew. It's 1pm

I heard it this morning, a personal call from the Minister! But I had to promise to keep quiet until 1pm. So I have. Wasn't me that leaked it.

The full press release is


<table style="width: 436.9pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="583"><tbody><tr style="min-height: 39.15pt;"><td style="padding: 0cm; width: 205.55pt; min-height: 39.15pt;" valign="top" width="274">10 December 2009
</td> <td style="padding: 0cm; width: 231.35pt; min-height: 39.15pt;" valign="top" width="308"> Media Statement

</td> </tr> <tr style="min-height: 379.25pt;"> <td colspan="2" style="padding: 0cm; width: 436.9pt; min-height: 379.25pt;" valign="top" width="583"> Government announces 2010/11 ACC levy rates
ACC levies for workers, employers and motorists will increase next year but less than those recommended by the ACC Board, ACC Minister Nick Smith says.
“Setting these levy rates has been a difficult balance of minimising the cost increases on families and businesses, keeping the pressure on ACC to better manage its costs, and ensuring ACC’s long-term financial viability,” Dr Smith said.
The Government has adopted the following rates:
§ The Earners’ Account Levy (paid by all employees and self employed to cover their non-work, non-motor vehicle injuries) will increase from $1.70 to $2.00 (including GST) per $100 of liable earnings from 1 April 2010.
§ The average composite employer and self-employed levy will increase from $1.31 to $1.47 per $100 of payroll from 1 April 2010. This levy excludes GST and is an average rate. Individual rates for industry groups may be higher or lower.
§ The ACC component of the motor vehicle license fee for a petrol car will increase from $168.46 to $198.46 from 1 July 2010 while the ACC petrol levy will remain at 9.90 cents per litre.
“These levy increases are necessary because ACC’s claim costs have increased by 57% in the past four years. The Government is pushing out the full funding date for ACC from 2014 to 2019, pulling back on extensions to the scheme by the previous Government, and putting in place a wide range of cost-saving measures.
“Initiatives underway this year covering physiotherapy, high-tech imaging, hearing, self-harm, rehabilitation, criminal disentitlements, and tighter income compensation will save more than $100 million per year and ensure the burden of fixing ACC does not just fall on levy payers.
“The Government has opted for more moderate motorcycle levy increases than ACC recommended. Mopeds 50cc and under will pay $129.24; motorbikes up to 600cc will pay $327.70; and bikes over 600cc will pay $426.92. As part of the motorcycle levy, $30 will now be committed to injury prevention modelled on the successful programme in Victoria, Australia. My message to motorcyclists is the escalating costs of motorcycle accidents cannot be ignored but ACC wants to work with you on improving safety.
“These levy increases are significant in that they will cost a person on the average wage an additional $148.50 per year ($2.86 per week) as well as $30 per car. The Government has rejected larger increases recommended by ACC and the Department of Labour because we are concerned about the broader economic impact on families and businesses at a time when the economy is beginning to recover from recession.
“These levy increases are sufficient to stop any further deterioration in ACC’s overall finances but will be insufficient for ACC to close the gap between its assets and liabilities by 2019. We will be doing additional work in 2010 as part of the stocktake process to address the long term issues facing ACC.
“Other minor changes include removing the exemption for hearses, collecting the ACC levy on biofuels, small changes in Work Account classifications and adjusting maximum and minimum liable earnings in line with the labour cost index and minimum wage increases.
“2009 has been a challenging year for ACC with Board changes, measures to contain costs, legislative reform and significant levy increases. The early signs of improvement in rehabilitation rates, cost management and investment returns give me confidence that progress is being made in securing the future of our unique no-fault 24/7 ACC scheme.”

Media contact: Simon Beattie 021 243 8271
</td></tr></tbody></table>

I think the Minister has probably held increases down to the maximum extent he could.

I'm personally not happy with the fact that there is a capacity split, it makes the >600 class a target. And obviously, I'm not actually *happy* to pay more - but, if that size of increase had been suggested in the first place, I think we would not have seen any organised protest.

I am pleased that the mopeds have been kept separate- and although their increase is significant it's not absurd.

Do we continue to protest ?

IMHO, yes. But, we need to change target a bit. Less focus on the Minister, more on ACC , and on the "overall" ACC issues.

We have to be careful not to be "captured" so that the protests just become a Labour party implement. And to bear in mind that as far as non-motorcycles ACC issues go, we are simply the same as any other New Zealanders.

Our specific grounds for complaint has largely been neutralised. I think we would have a had time getting Joe Q to accept that increases that size are totally unjustified. (It would actually have been simpler if the Minister had elected to play hard ball).And we will leach off a lot of biker support. In essence , the Minster has reduced the volume from outrage to grumble.

So we need to realign to a longer , less furious campaign aimed at a change in the basis of ACC .

Personally I'm happy to see the $30 going to an injury prevention fund. I have concerns that it will just become a slush fund, but the Minister has indicated that he wishes to work with motorcycling organisations. So, let's wait and see on that.


And - all said and done , we ALL need to remember that the fundamental problem is still there. We are falling off our bikes far too often.

Fix THAT problem and the rest goes away. So, stop bloody falling off, OK ?

[NighthawkNZ]

I just checked online and a years Reg is $321. So it's actually an increase of $105 if it goes up to $426.....

Or did I read it wrong?


the acc levies in that $321 is something like $252 the $426.92 is just ACC plus the actual rego which is about $120 + GST

still going to be 600 odd bucks to register a large bike...

[bogan]

Remember the protest on the 19th :niceone: in Auckland

and one in palmy the same day, get as many towns doing protests on this day to show Nick what he can do with his proposed increases would be a good idea I reckon. Theres no justification for charging different amounts for road users under the no fault ACC scheme.

edit, and why are they still splitting on a CC basis, its not done for cars

[Gremlin]

If anyone is interested... here's the rises in percentage...

Looks like mopeds are being done the worst, then big bikes and trucks.

Now... where to find a <600cc non-petrol bike :msn-wink:

edit: pic updated with dollar difference as well

[Babelfish]

All I can ask is PLEEEEASE can we ride Lambton Quay this time and park outside Parliament??? They can divert the fucking traffic and feel the noise a little more!

We still need to be in negotiation mode. As mentioned earlier in this thread we're currently subjected to classic union bollocks and there is no way in hell I am happy paying an ounce more given the information that has risen to the surface.

I currently pay enough for my car and bike and through work given the reserves shown and no snivveling cock sucker of a bloke like Fucknob Smith is going to convince me otherwise until the stop presenting such a dumb arse/dodgy/underhanded/condescending/rod munching image. :crazy:

I smell a good rimming in the air, and I'm really hoping we do it to them before they do it to us.

[riffer]

The amounts quoted are ACC levies only. They will have other rego charges added followed by GST so $426 will likely end up as $600+ total rego charge :buggerd:

I've worked it out thusly:

Licence Fee $24.50
ACC Levy $426.92
Other Levies $1.64
Administration $6.72
GST $57.47

Total $517.25

Up from $321.24 on 3/7/09

[bogan]

If anyone is interested... here's the rises in percentage...

Looks like mopeds are being done the worst, then big bikes and trucks.

Now... where to find a <600cc non-petrol bike :msn-wink:

Marine Y2K running on kero should do the trick! or an electric, you able to put the $ increases on that sheet as well as the %

[santiago]

The amounts quoted are ACC levies only. They will have other rego charges added followed by GST so $426 will likely end up as $600+ total rego charge :buggerd:

Naki Rat is right, once again the media has the terminology all buggered up. They say "registration rates", which isn't even correct, the correct term is "licencing fee". Registration applies when you buy a new or unregistered used bike off the showroom floor and is $382.67 for bikes over 61cc's. "Licencing", what you pay annually is now $321.24 over 61cc's and includes ACC, GST and the actual licence fee. If the ACC levy increase for bikes over 61cc's is presumably $426.92, then by the time GST and the licence fee is added, the cost will be around $600. Still way too high, if BRONZ and Ulysses call this a victory its a Claytons one. Protest and disruption is still needed IMO. Whats the bet they'll sneak it up again next year as well.

[Okey Dokey]

I don't give a fuck what the actual rise is...that prick was given notice on 17th Nov and at all opportunities before and since. He knows what he was likely to stir up with any increase at all (beyond that applied to cars, for 'fairness's sake :cool:) so he will now reap the benefit of his ill-judged decision.
CUNT!!

My feelings exactly. I also agree with the suggestion that we move on from him and focus back on ACC. He never even responded to my letter, although I heard back from Don Brash, Jacqui Dean, and ACC. And he was the one most closely involved, as Minister.:mad:

[santiago]

I've worked it out thusly:

Licence Fee $24.50
ACC Levy $426.92
Other Levies $1.64
Administration $6.72
GST $57.47

Total $517.25

Up from $321.24 on 3/7/09

There you go, actually not as bad as I thought, lol

[bogan]

I've worked it out thusly:

Licence Fee $24.50
ACC Levy $426.92
Other Levies $1.64
Administration $6.72
GST $57.47

Total $517.25

Up from $321.24 on 3/7/09

yeh that what I thought, the bastards have snuck it up significantly in the last half year so now they can say the increase is only $100, when its 2 hundy more than last time I did mine, and my Bros still costs more than an R6 :oi-grr:

[sammcj]

Oldest union trick in the book, want 2% ask for 20%, satisfaction @ 5%!


Yeah, sure saw that coming from a mile away.

This is still VERY unfair for people that own a car and a bike and have to register both.?!

[ukusa]

+1
Protests' to continue...until a more equatable levy can be set for all road users.

...and its' more about the philosophy of ACC that we need to fight for now

I agree fully, motorcyclists are still getting the raw end of the deal here!

[Bald Eagle]

and one in palmy the same day, get as many towns doing protests on this day to show Nick what he can do with his proposed increases would be a good idea I reckon. Theres no justification for charging different amounts for road users under the no fault ACC scheme.

edit, and why are they still splitting on a CC basis, its not done for cars

and one in wellington we still need to stop being singled out as a different type of vehicle user.

[ManDownUnder]

This is still VERY unfair for people that own a car and a bike and have to register both.?!

Which raises a thought... THAT is something we have in common with all motorists.

Owners of two cars have to pay 2x the levy despite them only being used one at a time, or car collectors - having to expend more and more proportionate to their wealth, not their risk profile or burden on the system.

I wonder if the motoring public could be elevated from the traditional kiwi lethargy to actually speak out against it... and if so - what would the consequences actually be?

Levy would be made per license holder
Levy would need to increase per person (possibly based on classes of luicense held if Dickta Smith's mandate is maintained)
... would/could it actually bite us in the bum?

[MaxCannon]

I don't understand the capacity split.

Three of us went for a ride on Sunday.
A 1200cc
A 1000cc
A 600cc

I don't like make to light of anyone crashing but guess which rider ended up in an Ambulance.

I think in general riders of larger bikes have more experience.
In this case I felt the crash was avoidable and the rider has been very fortunate to only suffer a broken arm.

I'd really like to see my levy increase go to funding rider training.

[Okey Dokey]

I don't understand the capacity split.

I don't think it can be explained- it is a figment of ACC's imagination which they are determined to foist on us.

[dipshit]

AS LONG AS IT FUNDS MOTORCYCLE AWARENESS CAMPAIGNS, FOR CAR DRIVERS. sorry for shouting.

So no emphasis on improving motorcyclist's habits then...???? :beer:

[James Deuce]

I'd really like to see my levy increase go to funding rider training.

Won't ever happen. They started down that path with the Direct Access scheme, realised it was encouraging people to buy and ride bikes and withdrew the scheme.

That sort of public comment is what got Ulysses in the poo.

[bogan]

Which raises a thought... THAT is something we have in common with all motorists.

Owners of two cars have to pay 2x the levy despite them only being used one at a time, or car collectors - having to expend more and more proportionate to their wealth, not their risk profile or burden on the system.

I wonder if the motoring public could be elevated from the traditional kiwi lethargy to actually speak out against it... and if so - what would the consequences actually be?

Levy would be made per license holder
Levy would need to increase per person (possibly based on classes of luicense held if Dickta Smith's mandate is maintained)
... would/could it actually bite us in the bum?

it'd bite those who only have one vehicle in the bum, but I currently have four registered and one on hold (two of which wont be renewed), so I'm all for the license based levy. There is probably the idea that those who have more than one vehicle are financially better off, which is true in some cases but BS in others, my 5 are probly only worth 10k all up, paying over 1k per year to keep em al on the road isn't financially viable for me. On the other hand what if someone only uses a car once or twice a month, which they borrow, still fair to charge them the same as me?

[dipshit]

Three of us went for a ride on Sunday.
A 1200cc
A 1000cc
A 600cc

I don't like make to light of anyone crashing but guess which rider ended up in an Ambulance.

All three...???

[bikemike]

Petrol motorcycles 601cc and over
252.69 745.77 426.92
Non-Petrol motorcycles 601cc and over
392.09 781.12 460.08

[Trollkid]

Don't forget the fact that we pay additional tax on the ACC levies with increased GST!!:Oi:

[James Deuce]

Diesel bikes.

[riffer]

Petrol motorcycles 601cc and over
252.69 745.77 426.92
Non-Petrol motorcycles 601cc and over
392.09 781.12 460.08

Yes I imagine NZDF are a bit pissed over that one.

[riffer]

Don't forget the fact that we pay additional tax on the ACC levies with increased GST!!:Oi:

A levy is not a tax. Already been tried with rates.

[Gremlin]

Marine Y2K running on kero should do the trick! or an electric, you able to put the $ increases on that sheet as well as the %
updated the attachment... even made it a bit more pretty with red :niceone:

[silverbak]

What a bunch of idiots. They pay no attention to the arguments of cc rating over horsepower or increasing levies on petrol to cover those that travel more.. just another complete brainless arbitrary wave of the power wand... roll on the next national protest...

[Naki Rat]

Petrol motorcycles 601cc and over
252.69 745.77 426.92
Non-Petrol motorcycles 601cc and over
392.09 781.12 460.08


Diesel bikes.

That's for when John Deere amalgamates with Hogley Fergusson :cool:

[Beemer]

it'd bite those who only have one vehicle in the bum, but I currently have four registered and one on hold (two of which wont be renewed), so I'm all for the license based levy. There is probably the idea that those who have more than one vehicle are financially better off, which is true in some cases but BS in others, my 5 are probly only worth 10k all up, paying over 1k per year to keep em al on the road isn't financially viable for me. On the other hand what if someone only uses a car once or twice a month, which they borrow, still fair to charge them the same as me?

Agreed - we have six bikes and three cars. All three cars are registered all the time as all are needed on a regular basis. Two bikes are always registered all the time, one other is a dirt bike, and the other three are on exemption during the times of the year they are not used. So we will end up paying at least $1500 a year on a regular basis, plus a portion for the other bikes. Not to mention our earner levies, and my levies from self-employment.

Time off work for either of us due to motorcycle (or any vehicle) injuries - nil. Time off work at present from falling down a flight of fucking stairs - three weeks and counting! Additional costs not covered by ACC for said injuries - $135 and I haven't even started physio yet!

[_Shrek_]

We can put the smaller reductions down as a definite win for NZ's biking fraternity - but it is only one battle that we have won - not the war!! The concept of having to pay more at all is still unjustified and needs continued pressure.

We still want a zero increase, we are not Trout, and we are angry... Rev

with you on that, just read the incress on the net :angry2:

[Thani-B]

Its still a bigger percentage rise than the other road users (except for mopeds), and does in no way fit in with ACC's no fault system. The cc groups are absurd, I ride more carefully on my 650 than I did on my 250. NOT FUCKING HAPPY. Actually I think that a good protest that fucks up heaps of peoples' travel for the day would make me feel better. We tried being nice and it did work but not to the extent we wanted. Im all for pissing off the public now.

[PrincessBandit]

Personally I'm happy to see the $30 going to an injury prevention fund. I have concerns that it will just become a slush fund, but the Minister has indicated that he wishes to work with motorcycling organisations. So, let's wait and see on that.


And - all said and done , we ALL need to remember that the fundamental problem is still there. We are falling off our bikes far too often.

Fix THAT problem and the rest goes away. So, stop bloody falling off, OK ?
Is it really that simple Les? Am I just being a cynical old moo-cow for wondering if they'd really be any nicer to us even if there were zero claims by motorcyclists over the next 12 months? (One can but hope, even if in vain).
I reckon they'd still be eyeing us up as an easy screw.


Won't ever happen. They started down that path with the Direct Access scheme, realised it was encouraging people to buy and ride bikes and withdrew the scheme.

Definitely in line with the "get rid of motorcycles from NZ roads by 2050...


Agreed - we have six bikes and three cars. All three cars are registered all the time as all are needed on a regular basis. Two bikes are always registered all the time, one other is a dirt bike, and the other three are on exemption during the times of the year they are not used. So we will end up paying at least $1500 a year on a regular basis, plus a portion for the other bikes. Not to mention our earner levies, and my levies from self-employment.

Time off work for either of us due to motorcycle (or any vehicle) injuries - nil. Time off work at present from falling down a flight of fucking stairs - three weeks and counting! Additional costs not covered by ACC for said injuries - $135 and I haven't even started physio yet!

Agreed. In 30 odd years of driving and the last 3 on a motorbike as well, this injury from my bike accident in March is the only time I've ever claimed ACC in regard to a vehicle accident. And never had any time off work requiring ACC to pay for loss of earning.

While I realise that my collarbone surgery (had it yesterday morning) combined with the non-effective physio I had for the break earlier in the year was covered by ACC, people like me are a drop in the vast vast ocean of claims. They still need to tighten up on their "rip off" merchants - that alone would save them hundreds of thousands of dollars over a few years, if not millions.

[ManDownUnder]

That's for when John Deere amalgamates with Hogley Fergusson :cool:

Hogs 'n Deere? Sounds like a farm...

[RE5Guy]

Why aren't we feeling so gratefull to Mr Smith for generously lowering the rates from ACC recomendations? What a nice guy he really must be.

NOT! I have written to him twice now asking specific questions about the fairness of charging multiple insurance premiums on the one risk when we own more than one bike. Guess what, he hasn't answered.

I think THE major issue here is multiple ownership. It is a huge rip off.

[RentaTriumph]

I withdraw that remark your honour but alas, the stain remains!

Oldest union trick in the book, want 2% ask for 20%, satisfaction @ 5%!

Not impressed with Mr Nick and Co. :spanking:

Exactly right Oldrider.
Now if we park our bikes up for 6 months of the Year for Winter ACC will be getting a full years registration compared with last year. They have suck holed us big time.
I will protest my vote at the next election by not voting National as I did last election for the 1st time and last time.

[silverbak]

Multiple ownership just means more revenue which is more likely the reason they havent looked at it. I own 3x650 singles.. i scrape into higher levies with low powered bikes. I am very peeved.

[748south]

The thing that Fucks me off is that the media have really been obliviouse to the whole thing really - STILL NO ONE HAS ASKED HIM FACE TO FACE TO JUSTIFY HIS FIGURES and secondly NO MEDIA HAVE ASKED HIM WHY KEEP HITTING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY PAYING A HIGH LEVY NOW IN PROPORTION TO THEIR USAGE and NOT TRY TO COLLECT FROM THE OTHER GROUPS THAT GOBBLE UP ACC FUNDS - RUGBY, SOCCER, NETBALL, DIRTBIKES, MOUNTAIN BIKE, ROAD CYCLISTS!!! FOR FUCK SAKE!!!!!

Have a happy day:)

[Bounce001]

Can live with the increases if have to but still not happy. Will be much happier when see more motorcyclist safety campaigns. eg big signs on the road: "What's behind you?"

It's the other road users that need educating about motorcyclist awareness.

And when are cyclists going to be registred and come under the motor vehicle pool, after all they are a road user.

[k2w3]

Not happy, either. Any protest action now though will be difficult to justify the reason and keep the public on side. We can argue the toss over changing direction all we like, but the general motoring public won't give a toss. It'll be "those moaning bikers are STILL not happy, greedy fuckers". Therefore if the public aren't on side (and over time will become steadily offside, mark my words), then there's no need to keep them happy.

I think one good strong hit at showing what can be done to slow down a city is worth a shot. And it should be soon, as a direct reaction to the shite decision.

[DEVVIL]

Cool. So it looks like it's ONLY twice as much as the car levy.

Not acceptable.
No it's not acceptable........:spanking:
Lets keep up the good work for zero increase:headbang:
NONONO will see you on Saturday with the signs
:Oi::Oi::Oi: Dont stop NOW!!!:Oi::Oi::Oi:

[Kiwi B]

This is such fucking bullshit - along with the whole levy increase scenario, how can we be going down the same road as the old/soon to be changed 250cc learner limit??? its taken the morons years to figure out that power to weight is the most important figure and now we are back to square one again with ACC and their CC spilt- for fucks sake who are these people??? If they are hell bent of a split of some sort AT LEAST MAKE IT BASED ON POWER TO WEIGHT!!

Soon it will be learner cage drivers can only drive less than 2000cc and they will just go a buy an Evo 10 with 300+hp.

This whole ACC thing really pisses me off mostly because of all the obvious fundamental cock ups - nothing makes any sense!!

sorry rant over

[Deano]

Still not acceptable.

And how can they, at what seems the stroke of a pen, now lower the proposed increase and still hope to keep ACC on track budget wise ? (According to their own rationale/justification)

Is this an admission that the first proposed levy figures were incorrect ?

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

[MSTRS]

The thing that Fucks me off is that the media have really been obliviouse to the whole thing really - STILL NO ONE HAS ASKED HIM FACE TO FACE TO JUSTIFY HIS FIGURES and secondly NO MEDIA HAVE ASKED HIM WHY KEEP HITTING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY PAYING A HIGH LEVY NOW IN PROPORTION TO THEIR USAGE and NOT TRY TO COLLECT FROM THE OTHER GROUPS THAT GOBBLE UP ACC FUNDS - RUGBY, SOCCER, NETBALL, DIRTBIKES, MOUNTAIN BIKE, ROAD CYCLISTS!!! FOR FUCK SAKE!!!!!

Have a happy day:)

Sorry...you are wrong....except for the oblivious media. One and all, the hard questions (and facts) have been put to them. But no media reporting, and no truthful response from The Prick.

[nico]

still wont be regestering :headbang:

[DEVVIL]

Its still a bigger percentage rise than the other road users (except for mopeds), and does in no way fit in with ACC's no fault system. The cc groups are absurd, I ride more carefully on my 650 than I did on my 250. NOT FUCKING HAPPY. Actually I think that a good protest that fucks up heaps of peoples' travel for the day would make me feel better. We tried being nice and it did work but not to the extent we wanted. Im all for pissing off the public now.
Lets do it!!:clap:
Rolling road blocks!!

[Nitzer]

Would like to know how much the average wage earner would lose over a year with these new figures. The media mentioned before around $500, is that still the case?

[MSTRS]

About $150

[NighthawkNZ]

About $150

The Majestic 12 are at it again... give with this hand I get a tax cut... while they secretly take with the other... its an old magican trick slight of hand...

[Damon]

can someone point me towards any info about the protest on the 19th, there doesn't seem to be anything on the calendar or meetings & events pages that i can see easliy

Sorry, finaly found them,

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=114475
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=2304&day=2009-12-19&

[peasea]

I've already decided to license our bikes for six months of the year only, so they'll be losing. We'll just take a punt during the winter months.

[James Deuce]

That's for when John Deere amalgamates with Hogley Fergusson :cool:
Kawasaki make a militarised KLR650 with a diesel engine. There are others and they will be increasing in numbers and availability. Diesel engines just need oil that will go bang when you squeeze it.

[MSTRS]

can someone point me towards any info about the protest on the 19th, there doesn't seem to be anything on the calendar or meetings & events pages that i can see easliy

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=114475

[Muppet]

Bollocks!!!!!!

[chanceyy]

its still no where near acceptable in my opinion. So still in with protest actions :yes:

[k2w3]

The protest on the 19th now just seems, well, a bit soft. No disrespect intended to the organisers, but a soft protest might be viewed by the politicians as the last gasp of a hardcore few remaining 'angry bikers' who'll eventually drift away as the numbers start to fade, given the fact they're probably feeling as though they've 'met us halfway'. Bollocks to that.

[k2w3]

Not only that, but as we drift away with weaker protests, it's much easier for them to introduce another $100 increase next year. It'll only be a small percentage increase, after all. Easy sell.

[Bald Eagle]

Lets do it!!:clap:
Rolling road blocks!!


Would like to know how much the average wage earner would lose over a year with these new figures. The media mentioned before around $500, is that still the case?


Not only that, but as we drift away with weaker protests, it's much easier for them to introduce another $100 increase next year. It'll only be a small percentage increase, after all. Easy sell.

We are not drifting away. There will continue to be local activity during December and January and watch the threads. More significant action is in early planning for when the pollies come back from their holidays.

We said before we where angry now we are bloody furious and we will be coming back in our thousands.

[yungatart]

Nix Myth and co are deaf, as well as dumb!
We said we would be back if they didn't listen...when do we go?

Bastards!

[Brian d marge]

They are at it again

Seriously the anti needs to be upped

look at the mess they made in the nineties

Stephen

[GSL]

If we stop protesting now the Government will know how to roll bikers and motorists every time.
Zero increase was the target - lets still go for it!
Who are these so called biker spoke persons that are quoted by the media saying we have had a victory....utter bull shit.
We will not win until we get the result we originally wanted. Who wants to be a looser?

[twotyred]

The capacity thing has to be scrapped,total bullshit.

what other vehicle pays by capacity?

[caseye]

Ixion? what was! said? please.

[Ixion]

Eh? What? Where?

[riffer]

Eh? What? Where?


Yeah I'm confused too.

Why are you quoted as saying that motorcyclists could live with the increases?

I'm not happy. :argue:

[avgas]

Ooo, maybe a few pointed comments about the origin of the cc limits in the previous proposal went in. I still think it telegraphs a move to a 125cc learner law.
Sweet. If they did that I would actually even consider paying the extra ACC costs.

[avgas]

Multiple ownership just means more revenue which is more likely the reason they havent looked at it. I own 3x650 singles.. i scrape into higher levies with low powered bikes. I am very peeved.
Frack totally forgot about this

[NONONO]

Sorry Ixion, but this is such a load of bollocks.
What we now have is the figure that was actually decided on when this bullshit started. If we had simply rolled over and accepted 700 odd dollars then Nick, the Nats and ACC would have simply laughed their balls off and took us to the bank. We did'nt they simply reduce the over inflated first option to the one they had in mind initially. I believe you have mentioned this in some other posts.
If we accept this, we are simply the fools they believe us to be.
Keep the focus on Smith cos Judge can't be hit, he's the civil servant with job protection and he could give a shit.
The phony war is over, now are we ready for the real war?

[Squiggles]

Yeah I'm confused too.

Why are you quoted as saying that motorcyclists could live with the increases?

I'm not happy. :argue:

livable as opposed to acceptable perhaps?
e.g. As a student i could now afford to pay the increased levy, but i dont accept the increase so wont...

[bogan]

livable as opposed to acceptable perhaps?
e.g. As a student i could now afford to pay the increased levy, but i dont accept the increase so wont...

same here, I could find the money, but at the expense of other things, hopefully would still be able to maintain the bike properly and have up to date safety gear...

[phred]

Wrong result Nick!
No justification for CC splits.
Motorcycles still being Targetted.
ACC still being privatised
Still a bigger increase than cages.

Issue is still live Protests must continue.

[kb_SF1]

I may have missed something but if the submissions have only just been heard/considered how can the ministers recommendations have gone to cabinet already and a cabinet decision made?

That was timed for February or has the heat got too much and someone has said close this down no matter what it costs?
Did the second meeting take place with the representative group and was the consultation under taken?, looks like the heat got too much. :Oi:

[shrub]

we've just been raped, not raped and pillaged.

I was interested to see that our kind Uncle Nick said he's going to take $30.00 off us will be committed to injury prevention modelled on the successful programme in Victoria, Australia. I've had a good look at said injury prevention programme, and while it's OK it was quite obviously developed for motorcyclists, not by motorcyclists. I think we're going to find that not only are we paying more, we are getting told how to ride.

I'm not the slightest bit happy.

[Mystic13]

I'm not happy with the increase. I have multiple bikes and cars and I've been royally screwed. motorbikes are my hobby and sport and unlike the bloody rugby players and skiers I'm been fukced over.

So do I now cancel all rego's and ride without them? Encouraging citizens to break the law because it's so damned criminal is unfair. If I get a ticket for no rego I will fight it. I'll also plead poverty and ask for community service. Heck, if Mikey Havoc can trade parking fines for community service why can't I.

I'd be happy to pick up rubbish rather than give those batsards at ACC another cent. We've had no bloody decent response to our claims. They've been ignored and a range of increases done.

Is there any way that we can fight this legally. I find it hard to believe that a government can do this in the light of poor facts and mis-information.

I personally think John Key is doing a good job and voted National. I'll vote National only if I have a nil increase. Other than that the fukcers have screwed me over on something I'm passionate about. I'll vote strategically to vote them out. Can we please keep working on labour for support to cancel the splitt cc thing, and to bring bikes into line with cars and get an undertaking from them.

If our levels of claims reduce we should be on their door demanding a fukcen immediate percentage drop.

Am I pissed. YES. For the next Nick Smith meeting we should tar and feather the batsard. Anyone got some old eggs. I knew I should have lodged my ACC response wrapped around a brick and thrown through their window. Ideally Keith McFlea's window on whatever floor and fired from a catapult.

Nick Smith I just want to be very clear. You lied. You didn't check the facts when they were presented to you and then you screwed us over with this mis-information. I'm inclined to think you're a sly, untrustworthy, scumbag piece of shit. You've acted without integrity. You, Judge and Keith have done us over and disregarded the facts.

I hope the motorcycle community continue the protest and with ACC and National ignoring the facts it's clear that level headed argument is not going to win the day. The only thing that will move them is when it starts to become loud, noisy and ugly.

Other than that it's a great day for a ride. Summers here and so is the melted tar. I wonder what Transit pay for the motorcycle injuries they cause.

If I'm paying more for car drivers taking me out I want nothing less than the right to sue.

Are there any potential legal challenges to be had?

Lastly I just want to say

I"M NOT GIVING UP MY BIKES.

[The Everlasting]

Still very high imo,not happy!!!

[NONONO]

Not only that, but as we drift away with weaker protests, it's much easier for them to introduce another $100 increase next year. It'll only be a small percentage increase, after all. Easy sell.

I agree that another hike is on the cards next year.
But "weaker protest"?
So far we have stayed away from central Auckland. We have bothered no one. This is the first time we are venturing in to the CBD and (if we get enough bikes, if we are not appeased) with the traffic lights and entry to Queens St. it won't be pretty.
My belief, we should have hit the CBD and the Bridge earlier and I believe we will still have to.

[The Everlasting]

I agree that another hike is on the cards next year.
But "weaker protest"?
So far we have stayed away from central Auckland. We have bothered no one. This is the first time we are venturing in to the CBD and (if we get enough bikes, if we are not appeased) with the traffic lights and entry to Queens St. it won't be pretty.
My belief, we should have hit the CBD and the Bridge earlier and I believe we will still have to.



Agreed hit the CBD,let them know we will not be ignored,and won't go away!!

[Interceptor]

"The Government has pegged back big hikes to ACC levies proposed by the corporation, particularly for motorcyclists.

Confirming the new levies today, ACC Minister Nick Smith said registration rates for motorcycles would range from $327.70 to $426.92, compared with rates of between $511.43 and $745.77 under rates proposed by ACC. But that is still an increase of between $75 and $174 for the owners of petrol powered motorcycles."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3147870/ACC-levy-hikes-pegged-back

[Ixion]

Yeah I'm confused too.

Why are you quoted as saying that motorcyclists could live with the increases?

I'm not happy. :argue:

Nor am I. As I said. But let's be realistic.

The original proposals would have seen many motorcyclists selling up for four wheels.

You're not happy. No-one is when they get charged (a lot) more. But will you be selling your bike? I doubt it. Not over a matter of $175.

Under 600 goes up by about $75. That's $1.50 per week. I think that "liveable". It's probably less than fuel is going to go up by in the next year. Even the big bikes , it's $3 per week. About half the cost of a set of tyres.

These are liveable increases . They're still not fair (cars went up about 16%). But they are not increases that will put any but the most destitute rider off the road. Which the original proposals would have. So, it's a tactical victory. Mr Judge wanted a figure high enough that motorcycling would go away altogether. he didn't get it.

To get a nil increase , or even the same as cars, we have to change the WAY that ACC sets levies. As we said all along. As far as this year goes, that was never going to happen. That's why I've always said the campaign ran to Nov 2011.

And I agree (and said) that the capacity thing is wrong and meaningless.

(And to put it into context, if you're employed and ride a < 600cc , the increased levy on earnings will cost you almost twice as much as the increased levy on your bike. So if the money is the only thing you are complaining of, you would be better complaining about that increase)

[PrincessBandit]

They are at it again

Seriously the anti needs to be upped

look at the mess they made in the nineties

Stephen

I would like to know where the evidence of their "primary focus" as mentioned in the very first sentence of point 3 is.

[drummer]

I say we won a partial victory in the reduction... BUT we still need to protest and even harder than before.... lets say ...we want levies the same as for cars or even less.. cars damge other people... we rarely do... its a political game... propose high.. actual loer.. don't be fooled folks

Peter

[scissorhands]

It leaves a raw taste to be told 4x more dangerous for big bikes. Its untrue. They want bikers gone, the bastards.

[drummer]

(And to put it into context, if you're employed and ride a < 600cc , the increased levy on earnings will cost you almost twice as much as the increased levy on your bike. So if the money is the only thing you are complaining of, you would be better complaining about that increase)Les... you speak truth... its not about the moeny for me.. but to some $3.00 is felt... there are some very underpaid people out there...

Its about equity and fairness... about the blame being put on us rather than the causes.. however I am glad to see money aside for safety... congrats on the job you and others are doing with that

Peter

[spookytooth]

I have never been a registered voter don,t like any of the pricks so have never voted (and i dont give a fuck what you think about that ) Come next election i will be a registered voter and national won't be getting a tick from me

[drummer]

Not only that, but as we drift away with weaker protests, it's much easier for them to introduce another $100 increase next year. It'll only be a small percentage increase, after all. Easy sell.Not weaker for me.. I'm stepping mine up with the local guys... bugger them.. they are fools if they think that e will accept a dam increase far higher than cars... and still have to pay all the other levies...

This makes me really pissed off... NO WAY to mild protests... bring it on I say...

Peter

[Pussy]

At least you came across on TV1 News about still not being happy about the unfairness, Les.
Peter Mac was almost kissing Smith's arse

[Laxi]

the who's next message is getting through loud and clear now, the news is focusing on the increases to EVERY wage earner and car owner, we've already recieved support from the unions, there's no way its over, next year we need to go back to parliament and this time not just motorcyclists! 20,000 should be an easy target for people at parliament in feb

[scissorhands]

Bring it on! I dont like this lot we have in

[shrub]

like it or not, we're paying more when we don't need to (as anyone who has listened to Charley Lamb would know).

I think the way forward is to say "OK, we're paying more. Now Mr ACC, start making motorcycling safer for us. Spend that money we're giving you on road design and repair, laws that fit us, subsidised rider training, education campaigns for car drivers etc, and you'll soon find your bills will start dropping".

Alternatively we can all get pissed off and just pay more.

[NONONO]

"I have in my hand a piece of paper"
Neville Chamberlain 1938.
"Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit"
Bikeoi 2009.

[Ixion]

like it or not, we're paying more when we don't need to (as anyone who has listened to Charley Lamb would know).

I think the way forward is to say "OK, we're paying more. Now Mr ACC, start making motorcycling safer for us. Spend that money we're giving you on road design and repair, laws that fit us, subsidised rider training, education campaigns for car drivers etc, and you'll soon find your bills will start dropping".

Alternatively we can all get pissed off and just pay more.

Well, in theory, $30 of that increase is ringfenced for just that purpose. In practice, it may be another matter, that could pay for a lot of junkets.

[CrAzYMoFo]

dont forget we already pay more than cars

also why dont more powerful cars pay more since they are going 2 split bikes

or why dont young people pay more cause there a higher risk too (dont flame me im one of those lol)

this is not an insurance company its acc which means no fault system

means it should be a flat rate for all cars,bikes,trucks

we already pay more than cars as it is

people are playing into the goverments hands by backing down going nah this is ok after they drop the increase a bit

they planned to do this make you say oh thats not so bad

its only no so bad in comparison to the other increase

its still dammed bad if you look at the % of increase in one year and that we arnt useing acc the way its ment to be used

if there not going to play buy the rules (acc being a no fault system) then why do we give up our right to sue i dont like the idea of lawers making all that money but why give up all your rights and ge absolutely nothing in return?



its people being stupid enought to give up there rites one at a time

later on you will find you are playing and have no cards left in your deck
and no leg to stand on

i wont be paying my acc anymore untill they give us what acc is ment to be all about

[ukusa]

this ain't over, time to inconvenience everyone now surely. Stuff the "lets do it by the law" & "let's not piss other motorists off coz we want them on our side". We need frequent nationwide co-ordinated protest rides. Gridlock in the cities. This would mean extra policing costs which I'm sure the govt can ill afford. I would be happy to do this every Saturday for as long as it takes.
This increase is criminal. Nobody puts prices up by that amount in normal business, if they did, they would have no business. Unfortunately with ACC we have no choice, we can't go elsewhere. If this doesn't change, for the first time in my life I will be registering for 6 months only then it will be on hold for winter. If everyone could do this, their increase would have a negative result, and not result in any extra in the coffers.

[wezo]

Two questions. When does this apply? And secondly, can i get an 12 month extension to my current rego at the current cheaper rate? I still have 4 months to go.

[riffer]

Well, in theory, $30 of that increase is ringfenced for just that purpose. In practice, it may be another matter, that could pay for a lot of junkets.

Accept your previous explanation of your quote to the media Les. I'm not happy but I can probably afford it.

I don't agree with the cc thing but ACC have started it, and there's now the precedent for them to do it with cars.

Also, now is where Bronz can step in and get some flesh on the bones of the training idea. Let's NOT get Ulysses and AA anywhere near it.

[Naki Rat]

At least you came across on TV1 News about still not being happy about the unfairness, Les.
Peter Mac was almost kissing Smith's arse

My thoughts too. Limp and naive response from Peter Mac but the public is now finally waking up to our "Who's Next" warning. 2010 going to be an interesting year :headbang:

[Naki Rat]

Two questions. When does this apply? And secondly, can i get an 12 month extension to my current rego at the current cheaper rate? I still have 4 months to go.

15 months seems to be the maximum length of rego you can buy, but grab the applicable forms before they 'run out' of them :rolleyes:

[Conquiztador]

My comments, for what they are worth:

- Only a "no increases" resul is acceptable.

- $30 is now charged us so they can work on rider education to decrease accidents by bikes. Does that mean that this is something they have not afforded to do before? Here I was under the impression that it was part of what ACC always was for, accident prevention. ??

- The cc rating based levies have to go!

- I would love to se ACC's audited acounts. Wonder how much of their "income" is used on admin and costs that has nothing to do with accident prevention or accident rehabilitation?


We have missed the opportunity to protest ride today! That would have been the ultimate! To say straight away: "Fuck you!"

The time for peacful protests is gone. Waste of time now. I will participate in disruptive ones only!

And to the "leaders" of all this: Thank you for what you have achieved sofar. But I now feel betrayed by your rolling over for tummy tickles.

[spookytooth]

this little piece pissed me off
http://www.sunlive.co.nz/11156a1.page
I tried twice to add comments to it but for some reason it wont let me

[bogan]

And to the "leaders" of all this: Thank you for what you have achieved sofar. But I now feel betrayed by your rolling over for tummy tickles.

who's rolling over, only the uylesses guys I've heard about. We still have good number willing to go for parity with other motorists.

[James Deuce]

You'd better start a new motorcycling lobby group then because the two main players just publicly rolled over.

[James Deuce]

Nor am I. As I said. But let's be realistic.

The original proposals would have seen many motorcyclists selling up for four wheels.

You're not happy. No-one is when they get charged (a lot) more. But will you be selling your bike? I doubt it. Not over a matter of $175.

Under 600 goes up by about $75. That's $1.50 per week. I think that "liveable". It's probably less than fuel is going to go up by in the next year. Even the big bikes , it's $3 per week. About half the cost of a set of tyres.

These are liveable increases . They're still not fair (cars went up about 16%). But they are not increases that will put any but the most destitute rider off the road. Which the original proposals would have. So, it's a tactical victory. Mr Judge wanted a figure high enough that motorcycling would go away altogether. he didn't get it.

To get a nil increase , or even the same as cars, we have to change the WAY that ACC sets levies. As we said all along. As far as this year goes, that was never going to happen. That's why I've always said the campaign ran to Nov 2011.

And I agree (and said) that the capacity thing is wrong and meaningless.

(And to put it into context, if you're employed and ride a < 600cc , the increased levy on earnings will cost you almost twice as much as the increased levy on your bike. So if the money is the only thing you are complaining of, you would be better complaining about that increase)

Betrayed on two fronts.

It was never about the levies (when did that change?).

When the focus shifted to levies you guys rolled at the first opportunity of a decrease. The tactical victory goes to Nick Smith.

[davereid]

You'd better start a new motorcycling lobby group then because the two main players just publicly rolled over.

Im sticking with plan "B", that is, putting my rego money to one side and riding until its eaten up in fines.

I won't be contributing a cent to ACCs rort, I'd rather pay the courts.

And given that I did 20,000 km last year without being unable to avoid a check, I bet that in 10 years I wont have paid any rego, or paid any fines.

But, even if I lose, I break even.

[CrAzYMoFo]

the issue isnt money its principal so no matter what they make the levie rise its not acceptable

[Squiggles]

You'd better start a new motorcycling lobby group then because the two main players just publicly rolled over.

Is that a knee jerk "burn them!" call i hear?

:msn-wink:

[James Deuce]

Is that a knee jerk "burn them!" call i hear?

:msn-wink:
Yep.

The guts will now fall out of what was becoming a politically aware campaign to maintain the core principles of ACC because of money. On one side you had people protesting the levies on the other we were trying to build a bigger campaign to prevent ACC being raffled off and sections of NZ society singled out and excluded from covereage. Like OAPs were today. Most of you will become one of them.

As usual it got dropped back to "Bikers Rights" and money. Instead of the bigger man principle it became the battered wallet principle. As usual there was no attempt to warn the motorcyclists out there what was going to happen so there will be ill feeling from people who lent support to what turned out to be a one dimensional argument about preventing people from selling bikes and buying cars.

[Okey Dokey]

Almost everyone here is angry/upset. I'm sure the "Who's Next" campaign will continue. Protests are still happening, letters being sent to newspapers, MPs, etc.

We will continue the fight in many ways, and keep the issue alive for other members of the public and the media. We are not going to go away and accept this.

[Pussy]

Almost everyone here is angry/upset. I'm sure the "Who's Next" campaign will continue. Protests are still happening, letters being sent to newspapers, MPs, etc.

We will continue the fight in many ways, and keep the issue alive for other members of the public and the media. We are not going to go away and accept this.

Right with you, OD!

[Okey Dokey]

Right with you, OD!

United we stand!

[Ixion]

Yep.

The guts will now fall out of what was becoming a politically aware campaign to maintain the core principles of ACC because of money. On one side you had people protesting the levies on the other we were trying to build a bigger campaign to prevent ACC being raffled off and sections of NZ society singled out and excluded from covereage. Like OAPs were today. Most of you will become one of them.

As usual it got dropped back to "Bikers Rights" and money. Instead of the bigger man principle it became the battered wallet principle. As usual there was no attempt to warn the motorcyclists out there what was going to happen so there will be ill feeling from people who lent support to what turned out to be a one dimensional argument about preventing people from selling bikes and buying cars.


I'm confused. Why, if that be so, why are you hostile to the "battered wallet" no longer being a factor?

[Indiana_Jones]

Lower,

but still too much

Also the CC rating bullshit has to be tossed out.

-Indy

[James Deuce]

Because I have a realist's view on motivational factors in politics. I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but I fear that the vast majority of motorcyclists were motivated simply by the proposed vast increases.

[Ixion]

Well, you may be right. I hope not. Perhaps the enormity of the increase may have been the initial motivating factor, but once involved they realised there was more to it?

But , certainly we will leach some support. There are those who were only involved for the sake of the money . They will wander off complaining, or acquiescent as the mood takes them.

And more perhaps who agree vaguely with "principles and all that", but can't be bothered now it looks like the missus won't make them sell the bike.

But I think a sufficient number will stay firm. And we do not need numbers so much for the next phase as cunning.

[mashman]

But I think a sufficient number will stay firm. And we do not need numbers so much for the next phase as cunning.

So with those that are staying... can you further define cunning?

[James Deuce]

You could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.

[ukusa]

Lower,

but still too much

Also the CC rating bullshit has to be tossed out.

-Indy

yep, same as the do-gooder greenies who wanted bigger rego fees on V8's, the bigger bikes are obviously thirstier, so are already paying a bigger chunk to ACC via the fuel levy tax. Another case of double dipping.

[Mcycle]

Im sticking with plan "B", that is, putting my rego money to one side and riding until its eaten up in fines.

I won't be contributing a cent to ACCs rort, I'd rather pay the courts.

And given that I did 20,000 km last year without being unable to avoid a check, I bet that in 10 years I wont have paid any rego, or paid any fines.

But, even if I lose, I break even.

I like this thinking, and I won't be paying ANY increases..

I'm not impressed by the predictable backdown and attempt to bribe us with 'Educational campaigns.' I'm totally against the cc rating based levies which have no justification in facts.

I'm also v disappointed by the comments by Ixion, if we accept any increases of the type recommended, they are just going to hit us with more each year.

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.' and refuse any increase until a thorough review is underway.

[Iggy]

To Nick (Bullshit) Smith
If you are reading this... you dirty fucker, remember the 81 springbok tour, when your fucking national party split the country down the middle with violent protests. Well good on you for opening a hornets nest pal, coz history is about to repeat itself if you dont pull your head out of your arse....and better make that quick coz every biker is fucked off big time!!!........time is ticking Mr Smith?
From a very pissed off biker!
Iggy

[mikeey01]

I do not like it at all, something stinks here!

Les up to this point you've done a top job, had my absolute respect right up to the roll over bit.

It's bullshit, you know it's bullshit, most others know it's bullshit!

Attributing blame or cost onto motorcycles?
- Some say motorcycles are dangerous and un-safe, therefore we pay more and get an increase.
- If it was a fair system, with a no blame culture, then a fixed amount would be across all road users / registered vehicles.
- Motorcycles are dangerous, therefore we pay more, is this not on it's way to becoming a user pays system?
- ACC levies in your paye are going up, that's across the board, dangerous job or not, it's a fixed increase across the board.
- All registered motorcyclists are getting targeted and the over 600cc bikes are being hit the hardest! There is no other way to look at it.

What grates me is their justification, great figures to go by, a back down, what does the future hold?

It's the same across the board or nothing, end of story.

Bikers Rights, excuse me but.

[rok-the-boat]

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

We need to keep calling for a return to the principles of a 'no fault ACC system.'

[Pixie]

Won't be getting a full year's levy from moi.....:shifty:

[Pixie]

Confucius say : Cannot refit lid to can of worms

[Pixie]

Kawasaki make a militarised KLR650 with a diesel engine. There are others and they will be increasing in numbers and availability. Diesel engines just need oil that will go bang when you squeeze it.

I knew a girl like that

[Pixie]

You'd better start a new motorcycling lobby group then because the two main players just publicly rolled over.

Provisional BRONZ?
Motorcycle Action Group?
Odysseus?

[Babelfish]

Well, you may be right...
...I may be crazy...but it just may be a LUUUUNATIC your lookin for... (sorry, the mood swung me)


Well, you may be right. I hope not. Perhaps the enormity of the increase may have been the initial motivating factor, but once involved they realised there was more to it?


Yep, this affects more than our biker brethren and it's great that we have the "who's next" portion of the campaign and thus an increase in cunning.

But dont forget how many people turned up on their bikes in Welly. Dont forget how many filled up the grounds of parliament. Each person wanting to show they were pissed off. And I have a feeling if the call came again to repeat the process there would be no fewer bikers.

Paying the amount we are paying above a car now is rubbish, let alone the increase! And still a mountain biker or sports person enterring A&E will be treated from the levvies we pay. And in the 15 years I have been riding I havent claimed ONCE.

It's piss easy to charge someone who recieves medical treatment doing something they dont pay levvies for...."oh is that a broken collar bone from your mountain bike sir? That'll be $33.40 plus $50 admin fee thanks". However it seems just as easy to play the "HOLY FUCK! LOOK HOW MUCH I'M GOING TO CHARGE YOU!....oh no, its ok, its actually only this much" game with gullible bikers.

I say fuck it if people get pissed off with the bikers heading into town again. If they do, the message that bikers are doing this for the greater good isnt getting through.

We shouldnt be backing down an inch when they continue to play with flawed logic.

[caseye]

Liveable, yes, acceptable No!
A 2 year campaign you said Les. I'm still in for that.
From now on though I'll attend any protest that Does directly affect the other motorists out there that Does affect ordinary people going about their daily business, until they get it!
We were first,Who's Next is a happening thing.
We picked it and we fought it, knowing we were going to get a compromise this year.
Next year there will be more ordinary people being affected by ACC Cuts!
Us too, we're now expected to pay more than any other group of motorists and in the coming years we will have our rights and services cut along with those same motorists.
I no longer care about annoying car drivers or Politicians.
From this day forward my bike is parked in a complete car park and God help the arsehole car driver or authority who touch it.
Further, if I am to pay more for the privilage of using the roads I expect more of them ! Ones with bette corners, ones with No Fucking metal on every second corner.
I'm pissed now and everyone who challenges me about being a biker will get an earful like it or not.
The Gloves have just come OFF!

[PhantasmNZ]

you know.... I really hate to say this... but as much as I've been a real supporter of the non-disruptive, bikers-are-your-friends protests, I think the support from Joe Public for these has just gone (or at least is just about to) down the drain..

Without some serious change in direction and focus (and I'm not sure what that is) we're quickly going to end up in a place where are protests are going nowhere - the increases are well targeted to take the hit out of everything we've got as far as the public are concerned.

Press coverage will dwindle, and bikers will become disilusioned about joining a protest - after all if it gets no tv time and ends up with 5cm on page 9 of Harold - who will really feel that they're doing something worthwhile.

onve we don't have the support of the public anyway, disruptive protest may actually BE the only way to get any airtime, even then though - who are we trying to convince of what. We've had no media coverage on how the cc categories don't make sense, and the public don't even see this as anything to get upset about.

To now, Mr and Mrs Public have been sympathetic about ridiculous hikes that nobody in their right mind could accept without making some form of sacrifice. Today the country learned we can afford these new proposals, and as soon as this happened 80% of NZ just concluded the bikers have won $500 down to $175 - good on ya guys, well done for a good protest.

I'll stick with the protest till then end - I don't think it's fair, and I'm not happy - but I know I'm going in to work tomorrow morning with everyone telling me we won - and noone listening to me that we didn't.

:mad:

[PhantasmNZ]

Liveable, yes, acceptable No!
A 2 year campaign you said Les. I'm still in for that.
From now on though I'll attend any protest that Does directly affect the other motorists out there that Does affect ordinary people going about their daily business, until they get it!


I no longer care about annoying car drivers or Politicians.


The Gloves have just come OFF!

And I think that the coming months will see more bikers coming to similar conclusions - even though I'm not sure the government cares.

[Ixion]

And I think that the coming months will see more bikers coming to similar conclusions - even though I'm not sure the government cares.

Of course they don't care. Who ever suggested they did?

[PhantasmNZ]

Of course they don't care. Who ever suggested they did?

no-one... which highlights the well played card oday - our next actions will either make the public think we're a bunch of moaners, or will trun them against us (disruptions) - and we'll find it hard to get the same profile and influence we've been enjoying thus far...

Of course having just watched the TV1 and TV3 broadcasts, there does appear to be a public hook looming in there - but it may be hard for the 'bikers' to lead the charge - the major newscasts seemed to focus on significant hikes for everyone (LOL at the "huge" $30 cage increase) - and importantly at the "government promised us tax cuts, took them away, then piled tax increases on us"

The "average family will be hit with $350 increase" seems to me as a way to go if only it could be effectively mobilised into a widespread protest..

[drummer]

Hey everyone... take a deep breath..we got noticed and have public support.. it gets harder from here.. ffs... don't let your fists rule... think smart... think tactics... simmer down... I am pissed off and want parity plus fairness as well BUT fight a good fight... not a violent one...

IF you all make the Nats the target with no political nous... guess what... you will lose.... Les is a statesman.. I don't know OR care who he votes for but we need to be apolitical and fight the action of the party at the weakest link...... this is OUR fight and we must be smart

Peter

[Jiminy]

I've just checked my ACC levy from 2007 (couldn't find an older one): $166.50 for a 250cc. No matter how the government puts it, I don't see how such a steep increase in less than 3 years is in any way justified!

[bogan]

you know.... I really hate to say this... but as much as I've been a real supporter of the non-disruptive, bikers-are-your-friends protests, I think the support from Joe Public for these has just gone (or at least is just about to) down the drain..

but right now we can work the angle; us bikers protested and got the whole ACC proposal re-thunked, 50% worker levy is down to 15% (ish), Joe Public you're welcome! If you would just listen to us bikers we can also take ACC back to the way it should have always been.

This was the first battle, and it was a draw at best Uylesses guy seems to think the war is over and we won, Bullshit its over, and we haven't won yet! Unless we want to continue having these battles, and these draws ($100 increases) we must put ACC right. Who's Next? ACC is next :headbang:

[StoneY]

You'd better start a new motorcycling lobby group then because the two main players just publicly rolled over.

Fucked if I have JD

I am NOT rolling over, I am continuing to fight
I dont care who takes offense to my stand either, I have NO interest in roilling over and being raped

This is NOT acceptable, we all know why I aint gonna go over it again (theres 400+posts already that state why)

Les, respect due where it is but this is time to declare fuckin WAR not play reasonable man, they wont listen...time to MAKE them listen

[PhantasmNZ]

IF you all make the Nats the target with no political nous... guess what... you will lose.... Les is a statesman.. I don't know OR care who he votes for but we need to be apolitical and fight the action of the party at the weakest link...... this is OUR fight and we must be smart

Peter

I disagree, the nats have always been the target. Their agenda to fully fund and then privatise ACC caused the issue. We actually have an opportunity to gain additional public support by highlighting the fact the nats are dramaticaly increasing taxes when they won on promised cuts. .. (EDIT: and thankgs Bogan - yes you are right we are due some credit)

Did you Bikoi? Did you wear the T-shirt, or the Vest, that a Nat logo down there by the ACC logo. It was and always will be a political fight...

[drummer]

but right now we can work the angle; us bikers protested and got the whole ACC proposal re-thunked, 50% worker levy is down to 15% (ish), Joe Public you're welcome! If you would just listen to us bikers we can also take ACC back to the way it should have always been.

This was the first battle, and it was a draw at best Uylesses guy seems to think the war is over and we won, Bullshit its over, and we haven't won yet! Unless we want to continue having these battles, and these draws ($100 increases) we must put ACC right. Who's Next? ACC is next :headbang:Yes yes yes... You are right... ACC is our real target and Smith.. hes a puppet. However remember the weakest link theory

Peter

[PhantasmNZ]

If we were to take advantage of the general public annoyance over their increases (and potential relief that it wasn't bigger - IF they even noticed it might have been) - then the time is now - any good ideas how to capitalise on this?

[drummer]

I disagree, the nats have always been the target. .Read the post "with no political nous" Fight but be smart

Peter

[PhantasmNZ]

though it's hard to be apolitical when you're fighting the politicians !!

Problem is... as much of a statesman as les may be - without the thousands of bikers rallying with 99% no political nouse (but a great "bullshit" cry) - Les doesn't get a voice, no airtime, no column inches, nothing...

We;ll never win against the spin doctors - Peter Mac makes sure that we can't even win amongst ourselves - but so far, sheer numbers have got us through - best part of 10k people that I saw on Parliaments front lawn didn't seem to have much political nous either - but they did have a common enemy.

I agree though - we need to be smart - but smart alone won't get us anywhere...

[cowboyz]

news on the rock radio station was how motorcycle levies have been reduced and car owners will make up the difference with a rise. I couldnt believe what I was hearing.. Anyone listen to the rock? Damn shocking reporting.

I think they are getting joe public ready for a biker backlash. And concidering I have 2 cars and 1 bike that makes me 2/3rds car driver so not sure which side of the fence I should sit on.

Its bullshit. it really is. I encourage any and all disruptive protests from this point on and will be disappointed to see no arrests in the process. We were asked to ride to parliment nicely... we did. We were asked to listen.. we did. We were asked to enter a peaceful protest.. we did.

Now its time to make an impact.

[Brian d marge]

Les... you speak truth... its not about the moeny for me.. but to some $3.00 is felt... there are some very underpaid people out there...

Its about equity and fairness... about the blame being put on us rather than the causes.. however I am glad to see money aside for safety... congrats on the job you and others are doing with that

Peter

agreed here

The principles of ACC are no fault no blame etc ( try to eat and type so excuse me !)
They are setting it up for privatization to sell off .... we can afford it and we don't need it to go fully funded by 2012 or whenever ( that is an IMF / business round table suggestion)
So the only answer is

thank you Dick wacker and we the motorcyclist are happy that our voice was heard
but in the spirit in which ACC was set up ( to rehabilitate the young lads who fought in the trenches and were wounded ) I cannot accept the governments proposals ( its the least i can do for what they did for me

Sorry Slick Smith but NO

Stephen

Oh and the prisions are up for privatization ,,,, all good in national land I see!!

[Ms Piggy]

Not acceptable. Absolutely!

[Babelfish]

but right now we can work the angle; us bikers protested and got the whole ACC proposal re-thunked, 50% worker levy is down to 15% (ish), Joe Public you're welcome! If you would just listen to us bikers we can also take ACC back to the way it should have always been.
:

What a crock of shit, we did fuck all. I, and I am sure a number of others here knew from the start that the plan has been to hit with the high numbers to allow the lesser numbers to look...well....lesser.

As far as battles go we've so far been led to the field. Yes I believe more cunning action is required and sounds like its under way...but I also believe in pincer movements and distraction...and that 10 thousand bikers should take a couple of hours to ride down Lambton Quay and park AT the steps of Parliament.

If you want to make Joe Public aware that we are also fighting for them we need to make even more a point of it with the press when they come out for the next protest.

[James Deuce]

At work today folks, smile gently and remind people that the worker's levy went up 15% instead of 50%. Les saved employers 1000s of dollars yesterday.

I'll be reminding people that I'm subsidising my own bike by owning a car, so maybe the non-motorcyclists need to buy a motorcycle to take advantage of that subsidy option.

[bogan]

What a crock of shit, we did fuck all. I, and I am sure a number of others here knew from the start that the plan has been to hit with the high numbers to allow the lesser numbers to look...well....lesser.

what we actually 'did' is irrelevant and impossible to know, what we can say we did and get public support is very relevant however!

[GOONR]

........

To now, Mr and Mrs Public have been sympathetic about ridiculous hikes that nobody in their right mind could accept without making some form of sacrifice. Today the country learned we can afford these new proposals, and as soon as this happened 80% of NZ just concluded the bikers have won $500 down to $175 - good on ya guys, well done for a good protest.

:mad:

I think you are spot on. I walked into work with my 'who's next' T shirt on and all I got was a 'good on ya, you don't need the T shirt any more'

[caseye]

I think you are spot on. I walked into work with my 'who's next' T shirt on and all I got was a 'good on ya, you don't need the T shirt any more'

I hope you told em all that Oh yes I/we do it;ll be your turn next, give us $50.00 and I'll get you on as well.
I've also had peole say to me, hey you guys and gilrs did some good, are you quitting the rides?
When I say No, they do a bit of a double take.They know me well enought to know I've got more to say and when I've finished they've gone, uh huh,Shit that stinks.
Keep up the good work.
Public support is still strong and will get stronger,as more of them realise what Motorcyclists DID Do for them as well.

[glegge]

Do we need a new shirt/slogan? or shill i keep wearing the one i have already got and have been wearing every single day since just before bikoi when it arrived..?

[Nasty]

Do we need a new shirt/slogan? or shill i keep wearing the one i have already got and have been wearing every single day since just before bikoi when it arrived..?

Why would you need a new one ... it has the right message don't it? That hasn't changed.

[rottiguy]

Just heard the AA on the radio today saying that a fuel levy would be a fairer way of charging for ACC, as users would pay and the more driving you did ( supposedly more km on the road = more risk ), the more you would pay.
Has someone from the bikers rights groups or clubs tried to get the AA to publicly announce the CC rating method and disproportionate bike levy is wrong ?. The AA carry a lot of weight in the lobby department. I think unless we get bolshie and/or target ACC directly, we are screwed

[bogan]

Just heard the AA on the radio today saying that a fuel levy would be a fairer way of charging for ACC, as users would pay and the more driving you did ( supposedly more km on the road = more risk ), the more you would pay.
Has someone from the bikers rights groups or clubs tried to get the AA to publicly announce the CC rating method and disproportionate bike levy is wrong ?. The AA carry a lot of weight in the lobby department. I think unless we get bolshie and/or target ACC directly, we are screwed

the AA are anti bikes, and have been quoted as saying the increases are justified as we are more at risk (or something to that effect), hmmmm, maybe thats cos AA also do insurance<_<

[crazyhorse]

Well, I'd like to know how a bike over 600cc is going to cause any rider more damage than a bike less than 600cc

.........and don't say speed! Because I know plenty of smaller bikes that go fairly quick around the corners etc, faster than some bigger bikes.

[bogan]

Well, I'd like to know how a bike over 600cc is going to cause any rider more damage than a bike less than 600cc

.........and don't say speed! Because I know plenty of smaller bikes that go fairly quick around the corners etc, faster than some bigger bikes.

the only explanation i can think of is the income compensation, higher earners generally have bigger bikes I spose. Fucking BS that is though, introduces and income bias into the system which must be paid regardless of the individuals income.

[crazyhorse]

the only explanation i can think of is the income compensation, higher earners generally have bigger bikes I spose. Fucking BS that is though, introduces and income bias into the system which must be paid regardless of the individuals income.

Now that appears to be a load of crap for sure :whistle:

[Grumpy]

news on the rock radio station was how motorcycle levies have been reduced and car owners will make up the difference with a rise. I couldnt believe what I was hearing.. Anyone listen to the rock? Damn shocking reporting.
Heard it on the radio and then read it in the paper. The newspaper article said the same, that bikers were getting a reprieve and car owners were going to have to make it up. Then next paragraph the Ulysses spokesman is quoted as saying it is a victory for motorcyclists. :angry2: It certainly made him sound like a smug bastard. I some how think that these guys are reporting as it's given to them.

Come on folks. All I see is that we just got the shit kicked out of us by the spin doctors in Wellington. This isn't a victory. Too many more of those sorts of articles and any public support we have is going to dwindle.

[drummer]

Well, I'd like to know how a bike over 600cc is going to cause any rider more damage than a bike less than 600Quote Nick Smith.. coz they are heavier... hes never even seen a Bike let alone ridden one.... his crazy ansers at THAT meeting are still just that... crazy!

Peter

[crazyhorse]

Quote Nick Smith.. coz they are heavier... hes never even seen a Bike let alone ridden one.... his crazy ansers at THAT meeting are still just that... crazy!

Peter

Perhaps I should make him get on the back and take the fella for a ride............although I do have a big bike, so that would throw that one out the window. :laugh:

[McJim]

Well, I'd like to know how a bike over 600cc is going to cause any rider more damage than a bike less than 600cc

.........and don't say speed! Because I know plenty of smaller bikes that go fairly quick around the corners etc, faster than some bigger bikes.

It's not the size of the bike but rather the mentality that feels it requires a larger more powerful bike that causes the accidents and injuries isn't it?

I ride a sub 600cc air cooled twin because it's all I actually need on the open road.

[James Deuce]

It's not the size of the bike but rather the mentality that feels it requires a larger more powerful bike that causes the accidents and injuries isn't it?

I ride a sub 600cc air cooled twin because it's all I actually need on the open road.

Now I think you're a lovely chap and all, but you say this so often, in fact with boring repetitiveness, that I'm starting to wondering if you're not trying to convince yourself out loud.

Mentality? There's isn't a car sold new in NZ that can't exceed the speed limit by 50%. So they're all mentalists too. Need? Need? What's the point of living in a consumer society if you're going to base all your purchasing decisions on "need".

The rest of us would go broke.

You like your asthmatic 1930s-tech Ducati. Fair enough. I'm happy to potter about with a vastly more capable vehicle under my bottom because I can. In fact, I'm about to purchase an outrageous "toy" simply because someone said it might be bad for me. That those people were voted into power because NZers perceived their freedom to enjoy themselves under threat from hairy lipped, no-nonsense, feminist overladies (doesn't have the same ring as "overlord", does it?) makes it all the more sweet that I can thumb my metaphorical nose at two diametrically opposed political elements at the same time. Those that want to stop me doing it at all and those who want to stop me doing it at all.

It might even annoy someone's granny, and then I'm three times happier than any Kiwi non-motorcyclist. I might even take up smoking. I'll also eat too many sweets, gargle the fat I ring out of the paper wrapping the sausage and chips I'm going to have for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and drink so much alcohol on New Year's Eve that I'll still be semi-comatose come Lent.

Because I can.

[Mikkel]

Now I think you're a lovely chap and all, but you say this so often, in fact with boring repetitiveness, that I'm starting to wondering if you're not trying to convince yourself out loud.

Mentality? There's isn't a car sold new in NZ that can't exceed the speed limit by 50%. So they're all mentalists too. Need? Need? What's the point of living in a consumer society if you're going to base all your purchasing decisions on "need".

The rest of us would go broke.

You like your asthmatic 1930s-tech Ducati. Fair enough. I'm happy to potter about with a vastly more capable vehicle under my bottom because I can. In fact, I'm about to purchase an outrageous "toy" simply because someone said it might be bad for me. That those people were voted into power because NZers perceived their freedom to enjoy themselves under threat from hairy lipped, no-nonsense, feminist overladies (doesn't have the same ring as "overlord", does it?) makes it all the more sweet that I can thumb my metaphorical nose at two diametrically opposed political elements at the same time. Those that want to stop me doing it at all and those who want to stop me doing it at all.

It might even annoy someone's granny, and then I'm three times happier than any Kiwi non-motorcyclist. I might even take up smoking. I'll also eat too many sweets, gargle the fat I ring out of the paper wrapping the sausage and chips I'm going to have for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and drink so much alcohol on New Year's Eve that I'll still be semi-comatose come Lent.

Because I can.

So you are buying the Harley? :cool:

[James Deuce]

The Harley that Harley didn't want.

[davebullet]

Do we need a new shirt/slogan? or shill i keep wearing the one i have already got and have been wearing every single day since just before bikoi when it arrived..?

Naa.... just wash it mate. Unless you want to keep wearing it every day to turn up at the next protest to say; "I stink. Just like your levy increases!"

[davebullet]

Quote Nick Smith.. coz they are heavier... hes never even seen a Bike let alone ridden one.... his crazy ansers at THAT meeting are still just that... crazy!

Peter

Agreed.

My 650cc - SV - 74 Hp - theoretical top speed approx 190 kph
A 600cc - R6 - 129 Hp - theoretical top speed approx 240 kph (?)

Yes - the SV is slightly heavier but surely horsepower commands more rider skill / respect and therefore is more dangerous in underskilled hands.

Even then, the whole thing is a load of bollocks. As has been said before, they should do the same analysis on car levies and split based on CC ratings of cars. Surely your old school big block V8 chevy is far more dangerous than your twin turbo Subaru legacy. What a load of crap.

[Kickaha]

The Harley that Harley didn't want.

But will you still wave?

[boomer]

it's not the size of the bike but rather the mentality that feels it requires a larger more powerful bike that causes the accidents and injuries isn't it?



is that tongue in cheek?

[James Deuce]

But will you still wave?

Not with a 21 degree rake, I'll die!

[bogan]

Not with a 21 degree rake, I'll die!

do i hear a rake based ACC levy in the works :nono:

[Bodhi]

I reckon more protest is definately called for. My 18 dollar a week tax cut is worthless after paying all the increased taxes. Not that I voted for the sheep shagger party!.. Anyway, I suggest licencing your bikes for as long as possible. I licenced mine till March 2011 by using the changing licence expiry date form (MR27, I think)

[swbarnett]

Anyway, I suggest licencing your bikes for as long as possible. I licenced mine till March 2011 by using the changing licence expiry date form (MR27, I think)

How about we all change our license expiry to the same date. Imagine the chaos of over 100,000 overdue registration payments at the same time. Imagine if every biker sent a letter stating why they're not paying. Now that would send a message!

[pzkpfw]

How about we all change our license expiry to the same date.

That, I like.

[bogan]

That, I like.

arent we all gonna do that anyway, to the day before the new prices come into effect :msn-wink:

[drummer]

arent we all gonna do that anyway, to the day before the new prices come into effect :msn-wink:Yes... but watch that the government don't take that choice away... otherwise... on the final day ALL bikers either log in to change or go to LTSA or PO... they won't be able to handle it and it gives us more time...

Peter

[drummer]

How about we all change our license expiry to the same date. Imagine the chaos of over 100,000 overdue registration payments at the same time. Imagine if every biker sent a letter stating why they're not paying. Now that would send a message!Great idea... but to reach those riders... how... thats where an idea I have comes to mind... and have suggeted in a thread ruined by trolls

Peter

[drummer]

arent we all gonna do that anyway, to the day before the new prices come into effect :msn-wink:Again great.. but who? KB'ers or ALL bike riders... to do this we need to be FAR more united and FAR more accepting of ideas... I believe we can do it though... all those regos.. and then don't pay them... wouldn't it be the ultimate protest!

Peter

[drummer]

Agreed.

My 650cc - SV - 74 Hp - theoretical top speed approx 190 kph
A 600cc - R6 - 129 Hp - theoretical top speed approx 240 kph (?)

Yes - the SV is slightly heavier but surely horsepower commands more rider skill / respect and therefore is more dangerous in underskilled hands.
Totally agree... we know its crap... we know its unfair... but what we need is to be united... that we are far from.. however we could be... we have to put political belief's aside... attack POLICY and be smart... encompass scoot riders... all who ride... together as ONE UNITED group we can make the difference... factioned like now, even here on KB... no chance!

Peter

[tyko48]

The guys in parliament and ACC arent stupid, if ACC makes a crazy proposal to jack up levies by 300% and parliament in turn say "no thats too high, we'll be nice and ONLY increase it by 50-60%".. they are using the old attention-diversion trick, where you're firstly hit by something as unthinkable as the 300% price hike, and are then more willing to accept any smaller price increase.

in short - perhaps the 50-60% increase was always their goal
good to see you guys arent putting up with this either

[kwaka_crasher]

in short - perhaps the 50-60% increase was always their goal

Well. No shit. :rolleyes: :sherlock: