There is no God bus slogans

[PrincessBandit]

OK, I await with great interest the "There is no buddha" "There is no Allah" and "There is no Mohammed" bus slogans just to even it all out.

[TOTO]

these are all gods no ?

[Mikkel]

I hate to point out the obvious, but Buddha and Mohammed aren't deities.

Besides, "god" is a fairly generic term... If a slogan says "there is no god" it doesn't matter which religion you believe in, you should still despair and/or get mightily offended.

Not that god, should any such thing really exist, would be likely to care at all about bus slogans.

[PrincessBandit]

these are all gods no ?

Well I'm pretty sure Allah at least is deified as such. Why just use the English word? I reckon there would be too many upset Moslems if they'd used any other word...

[Tank]

There must be a god - I just saw Bishop Brian Tamaki advertising on the back of another bus.

And if you cant trust Bishop Brian - who can you trust?

[Badjelly]

According the picture I saw on Stuff, the message was "THERE'S PROBABLY NO GOD". The word "probably" matters. Also, it's all capitals, so you can't tell whether it's God (which might support the idea that it's the Christian deity) or god (any god).

Anyway, there's probably no God, or god, or gods. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

[Ender EnZed]

Why just use the English word?

More people would understand than if they used Maori or sign language.

[Mikkel]

Well I'm pretty sure Allah at least is deified as such. Why just use the English word? I reckon there would be too many upset Moslems if they'd used any other word...

Nah, the muslims only pack a sad if you try and draw Mohammed.

And yes, Allah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah) is the Arabic word for god.

Unlike Jehova which is the name of the god, not the word for god as such. Oops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erthun0Pauc&feature=related


There must be a god - I just saw Bishop Brian Tamaki advertising on the back of another bus.

And if you cant trust Bishop Brian - who can you trust?

Well, he is the messiah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc

[Tank]

There can be only one Mohammed.

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/20/2007/EGT6D00Z/muhammad-ali.jpg

[awayatc]

thank god.....

[gijoe1313]

I prefer "There is no more school" signs ... :eek::yawn::zzzz:

[Mikkel]

There can be only one Mohammed.

Cassius Clay, thank you very much.

[wbks]

wtf are you all talking aboot

[Ender EnZed]

wtf are you all talking aboot

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/3149823/Theres-probably-no-God-coming-to-a-bus-near-you

[Toaster]

if you cant trust Bishop Brian - who can you trust?

Such a good Tui billboard.

[wbks]

Thats pretty cool. Isn't "allah" just an arabic word for "god", anyway? "God" kind of encapsulates the whole spectrum of imaginary friends not to devote your life to, princessbandit. Can't go singling out muslims with that "allah", though, I'd like new zealand to remain terrorist attack free until at least the end of this decade!

[Pussy]

"Bishop Brian"?
That's SOOO last week!
He's "the you beaut divine holiness" now, isn't he??

[Tank]

"Bishop Brian"?
That's SOOO last week!
He's "the you beaut divine holiness" now, isn't he??

He's like Jim Jones but with better hair.

Fuck going to their Christmas BBQ tho'
http://www.tendonut.com/images/randompics/Fox_News_Jonestown_Web.jpg

[ManDownUnder]

And if you cant trust Bishop Brian - who can you trust?

1 down... over 6 billion to go...

[idb]

Back in September in Auckland it was almost a case of "There Is No Bus".

[wbks]

He's like Jim Jones but with better hair.

Fuck going to their Christmas BBQ tho'
http://www.tendonut.com/images/randompics/Fox_News_Jonestown_Web.jpg
"must spread rep" oh my god... That is the hardest I've laughed at something on the computer for a long time!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Toaster]

OK, I await with great interest the "There is no buddha" "There is no Allah" and "There is no Mohammed" bus slogans just to even it all out.

The point of the ads in Britain were to provoke debate.

Yes they are pro-atheism, but personally I think that it's a good thing to see ads like this get publicity.... because they just might get people thinking about where they stand spiritually.

Better to have thought about God and made a conscious decision "in or out" than to sit on the fence.

Besides, sitting on a fence hurts one's bottom.... and so does Satans pitchfork.

[Toaster]

"Bishop Brian"?
That's SOOO last week!
He's "the you beaut divine holiness" now, isn't he??

I thought the billboard was an ad for hair gel.

[EgliHonda]

Think it's a bit rank during the main christian celebration season.

I mean, isn't this the time we commemorate Santa's baby, Jeebus, who was born as a manager...?

I gather gold, Frankenstein and myrhh (whatever the hell that is) was involved too... Confusing as hell really, come to think of it... :no:

[wbks]

I mean, isn't this the time we commemorate Santa's baby, Jeebus, who was born as a manager...?

No, we make business tycoons wealthy and spend time with our family, and fuck jeebus

[bogan]

Think it's a bit rank during the main christian celebration season.

I mean, isn't this the time we commemorate Santa's baby, Jeebus, who was born as a manager...?

I gather gold, Frankenstein and myrhh (whatever the hell that is) was involved too... Confusing as hell really, come to think of it... :no:

very true, maybe there should be Christian ads running alongside "Aethiests don't get to have any christmas" Tbh Im trying to remember whether I've ever seen any adds from religion (cept outside churches of course) do they get to advertise as well?

[Tank]

Coincidence that Bishop Brian signed up 700 sons just before Christmas http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10605956&pnum=1


I think not - I reckon he did it for the presents.

Still with that many kids hes going to get double-ups - I hope that the warehouse has a returns policy.

[wbks]

very true, maybe there should be Christian ads running alongside "Aethiests don't get to have any christmas" Tbh Im trying to remember whether I've ever seen any adds from religion (cept outside churches of course) do they get to advertise as well?Christmas has become a completely accepted western tradition that no longer has fuckall to do with jesus unless you are christian. It's been like that so long it's not even really a religious thing, anymore

[Mikkel]

tra⋅di⋅tion  [truh-dish-uhn]
–noun
1. the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, esp. by word of mouth or by practice: a story that has come down to us by popular tradition.
2. something that is handed down: the traditions of the Eskimos.
3. a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting: The rebellious students wanted to break with tradition.
4. a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices.
5. a customary or characteristic method or manner: The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition.
6. Theology.
a. (among Jews) body of laws and doctrines, or any one of them, held to have been received from Moses and originally handed down orally from generation to generation.
b. (among Christians) a body of teachings, or any one of them, held to have been delivered by Christ and His apostles but not originally committed to writing.
c. (among Muslims) a hadith.
7. Law. an act of handing over something to another, esp. in a formal legal manner; delivery; transfer.
8. A weak excuse for repeating the same mistake, poorly thought out ritual or questionable act, again and again and again and again and again and again and again...

[MisterD]

Christmas has become a completely accepted western tradition that no longer has fuckall to do with jesus unless you are christian. It's been like that so long it's not even really a religious thing, anymore

The Christian appropriation of the Northern mid-winter festival (whether you want to call it Yule or Saturnalia) has merely been a temporary aberration....

[Swoop]

"Bishop Brian"?
That's SOOO last week!
He's "the you beaut divine holiness" now, isn't he??

He is a "king" now.

Dunno if it is "fucKING lying cunt" or "fucKING con-artist" though.

[PrincessBandit]

All reminds me of a cartoon I saw once with a young boy asking his dad "Daddy do you think God knows we don't believe in him?"

Anyways, debate is good. Massdebate is probably preferred amongst many on here, but I'll leave that for others.....:msn-wink:

[pzkpfw]

Coincidence that Bishop Brian signed up 700 sons just before Christmas

Why are churches always full of kiddie fiddlers?

[wbks]

Why are churches always full of kiddie fiddlers?because people who think the world was created in a week aren't often the soundest of minds

[Dave Lobster]

The Christian appropriation of the Northern mid-winter festival (whether you want to call it Yule or Saturnalia) has merely been a temporary aberration....

I was going to say that.

[scissorhands]

Excellent 15minute bit about the origins of most religions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo

Its a 110minute movie called Zietgeist for free on youtube, the first 15minutes specifically about religion

[MisterD]

I was going to say that.

Glad to be of service...

Can I also say, that down here we should ditch Christmas and have a proper mid-winter piss-up in June.

[YellowDog]

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/muhammed_cartoon_bomb_strike_neck.jpg

[SixPackBack]

The official website http://www.nogod.org.nz/

[SlowHand]

Excellent 15minute bit about the origins of most religions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiuaGJ46zo

Its a 110minute movie called Zietgeist for free on youtube, the first 15minutes specifically about religion

A real conspirator doesn't believe a conspiracy movie at face value you know.

:third:

[Laxi]

Anyway, there's probably no God, or god, or gods. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

I live by the "blackadder phylosophy". if there are such places (Tui) then heaven is full of tea totalers and saints, where as hell is full of pros, rockstars and anyone who knows how to have fun! where would you rather end up

[Edbear]

The Christian appropriation of the Northern mid-winter festival (whether you want to call it Yule or Saturnalia) has merely been a temporary aberration....

Temporary? I guess, considering what's coming to religion... :whistle:


I live by the "blackadder phylosophy". if there are such places (Tui) then heaven is full of tea totalers and saints, where as hell is full of pros, rockstars and anyone who knows how to have fun! where would you rather end up

Don't believe everything you hear about heaven and hell... Most of it was brought in from Pagan religions to keep Christians in line and is a load of bollocks... ;)

(Like Xmas..)

[wbks]

Temporary? I guess, considering what's coming to religion... :whistle:



Don't believe everything you hear about heaven and hell... Most of it was brought in from Pagan religions to keep Christians in line and is a load of bollocks... ;)

(Like Xmas..)
lol, blame everything that liberated, modern, post christian societies are growing to hate, on the pagans (which effectively means every religion apart from "our own":wacko:)

[bogan]

ASA basic prinicpals #3


Advertisements should not portray people in a manner which, taking into account generally prevailing community standards, is reasonably likely to cause serious or widespread offence on the grounds of their gender; race; colour; ethnic or national origin; age; cultural, religious, political or ethical belief; sexual orientation; marital status; family status; education; disability; occupational or employment status.

guess that explains why theres no relegious advertising round the place, and personally I have no problem with the bus ones either, though its a good thing they used the word probably!

[davebullet]

How about this for a thought...

"We are God, 'cause only we can create the idea of his existence in our holy brains"

[Edbear]

lol, blame everything that liberated, modern, post christian societies are growing to hate, on the pagans (which effectively means every religion apart from "our own":wacko:)

You can "blame" religion for a lot of things, but the real blame is on people. It takes people to do anything and all religious doctrine of any kind is fully pagan. Christianity abandoned its roots over time and abandonded the Bible's teachings completely by about 300-400AD adopting pagan customs and beliefs in an attempt to 'be all things to all men'.

Every single mainstream doctrine of Christendom directly contradicts the Bible.

But as I say, it takes people to do evil things and man does not need religion to work evil to his neighbour, many just like to use it as justification. In war, each side claims the divine support of their gods, which is ludicrous when you think about it. If "God" were on one side that side would be inevitably victorious. Stupid thing about WW2 for example was that Christian religions on both sides, each supposedly worshipping the same God and using the same Bible, claimed He was on their side, so you had "Brother against Brother" from the same church with the blessing of the clergy.

And the churches wonder why their support is drying up...

[Maha]

OK, I await with great interest the "There is no buddha" "There is no Allah" and "There is no Mohammed" bus slogans just to even it all out.

There must be a slogan here somewhere?



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IVseBfMq_Dc&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IVseBfMq_Dc&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Genestho]

Saw this on the news last night, agreed the word 'probably' is a good one.

I agree there 'probably' is no god, and I reiterate this when god squads knock on my door, and I quite enjoy the reality debate that ensues :)
(ooooh I do love a good debate! :D)

[Taz]

Well I'm pretty sure Allah at least is deified as such. Why just use the English word? I reckon there would be too many upset Moslems if they'd used any other word...

I'm constantly amaxed at what women feel is really important.:lol:

[McJim]

I like it - I have had so many religions rammed down my throat over the years that it's a breath of fresh air to have Atheism in ya face!

I believe that having an imaginary friend is a psychotic disorder.

[MisterD]

Temporary? I guess, considering what's coming to religion... :whistle:

Mainstream religion has had its day, unfortunately various cults seem to growing...

[Edbear]

Mainstream religion has had its day, unfortunately various cults seem to growing...

The toes of the image...

[scissorhands]

Governments are sick and tired of losing money to those ratbag religions, time to attack, and turn the sheep

[Dave Lobster]

Mainstream religion has had its day, unfortunately various cults seem to growing...

Aren't they one and the same?

[Brett]

Meh, if they want to put up slogans like that who cares. It is their right to not believe in God if they feel so inclined. I do feel sorry for them though, but that may just be because I have a different point of view to them...

[george formby]

I'm probably made in god's image, in which case the big fella/lass/genderfree one is nothing like what it say's in the Torah, Koran or Bible. Just an omnipotent pisshead. All is well. Go Richard Dawkins.
(Dave Lobster has a Macc Lads avatar!!!! Brilliant.)

[RDJ]

OK, I await with great interest the "There is no buddha" "There is no Allah" and "There is no Mohammed" bus slogans just to even it all out.

Never happen. All the edgy counter-stereotype ad-men and envelope-pushing avant-garde mavens lose their nerve in the face of religiously-inspired throat-cutters.

[Skyryder]

I thought the billboard was an ad for hair gel.


Halo Hair Gel. :jerry:

[oldrider]

So called, self professed, atheists, are obsessed with "GOD"! :doh:

[SixPackBack]

So called, self professed, atheists, are obsessed with "GOD"! :doh:
You will find very few non believers classify themselves as anything, and any perceived obsession is two fold:

Concern over the mass god delusion.
Sick and tired of thousands of years of butchery all in the name of god.

[avgas]

Why just use the English word?
Probably for the same reason why I have to tick "Pakeha" on the every form in NZ.
Yet the asians get their own one

[avgas]

The greatest thing the devil ever did was made people think he didn't exist.
Maybe God tried the same tactic?

Meh all I know is video killed the radio star

[gijoe1313]

Or as a dyslexic might see ... "Where is the dog?"

[Rayray401]

hmm can atheism be classified as a religion as well?

[McJim]

hmm can atheism be classified as a religion as well?

It is a religious belief, yes. If you are convinced that the cosmos exists merely because something has to and that random cataclysmic events occurred billions of years ago that have coincidentally created the planet we live on and the life abundant here.

Atheism is the name given to the true conviction that there are no greater powers but the forces we observe such as gravity and radiation.

[Hitcher]

As an atheist, I do not want to be associated with any soft cocks who feel compelled to put the word "probably" into a statement proclaiming the nonexistence of a god.

[PrincessBandit]

As an atheist, I do not want to be associated with any soft cocks who feel compelled to put the word "probably" into a statement proclaiming the nonexistence of a god.

Yes, I had to smile when the guy was on tv the other night - definitely sounding like he wanted "a bob each way", just in case.
Have the courage of your convictions!!

[Insanity_rules]

Probably for the same reason why I have to tick "Pakeha" on the every form in NZ.
Yet the asians get their own one

I always tick other and don't specify or put mediterranean, must piss em right off. If I get people telling me I'm Pakeha I politely correct them.

As for religion I like to kid people that I'm wican. It scares hell out of em.

[MikeL]

As an atheist, I do not want to be associated with any soft cocks who feel compelled to put the word "probably" into a statement proclaiming the nonexistence of a god.
But the word "probably" is the only way to avoid being placed in the same category as those who, equally stridently, proclaim the existence of a god: that is, a devout believer. The fact that your belief is diametrically opposed to theirs, and is based on quite different arguments, is irrelevant; it is still a faith, as opposed to a scientific theory (i.e. it is not falsifiable).
The only satisfactory position is pure scepticism: doubt is always better than faith.

[Hitcher]

t is still a faith, as opposed to a scientific theory (i.e. it is not falsifiable).

At this point I think it best, after stating that the existence of a god is falsifiable, to draw attention to the Scottish Thread. Any comprehensive discussion about the existence or otherwise of a god is best discussed there, rather than in this thread whose purpose is to discuss what people may want to pay to have displayed on the sides of buses.

[MisterD]

hmm can atheism be classified as a religion as well?

In the same way that "bald" is a hair colour...

[klingon]

...counter-stereotype ad-men ... envelope-pushing avant-garde ...religiously-inspired throat-cutters.

Was there a special on hyphens at The Warehouse today?

Shame I missed it. I'm all out. :(

[ManDownUnder]

Was there a special on hyphens at The Warehouse today?

Shame I missed it. I'm all out. :(

I stocked-up - here - have-a-few

[ManDownUnder]

...to discuss what people may want to pay to have displayed on the sides of buses.


Boobs... great big boobs. Preferably perky

[Karl08]

Should the campaign for Auckland instead read, "God, there's probably no bus"?

[SixPackBack]

Boobs... great big boobs. Preferably perky

Perched atop a variety of desirable motorcycles:niceone:

[Mikkel]

hmm can atheism be classified as a religion as well?

Atheism actually doesn't imply anything besides the rejection of the idea of god (in any shape or form).

As such you could, validly, argue that atheism is indeed a religion since it is impossible to prove the non-existence of god, and as a consequence it is a belief rather than any true knowledge that lies at the base of atheism.

As a mathematical analogue I suppose you could say that atheism is akin to accepting the fact that no rational number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_numbers) divide by Pi could ever be an integer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer). From all principles, founded in reason mind, that is indeed true - but doing the actual testing (not just using theorems and other "tricks") would be impossible since there is, practically, an infinite number of rational numbers. ...I think, but then again, I am not sure and slightly drunk to boot. But hey...

[ManDownUnder]

Perched atop a variety of desirable motorcycles:niceone:

Ironically the response would be drooling and "Oh My GOD!" so it all becomes a little self defeating at that point I guess.

I wonder if the God squad would ever stoop to looking at boobs as proof of God then?

[candor]

I believe there is a superstition centre in the mammalian brain which accomodates god, it's just a belief though. Probably.

[PrincessBandit]

Should the campaign for Auckland instead read, "God, there's probably no bus"?

You are onto something there - it could easily be extended to a train campaign as well!

[R6_kid]

Or as a dyslexic might see ... "Where is the dog?"

You have to feel sorry for the agnostic, dyslexic insomniac. He stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog.

[cowboyz]

As an atheist, I do not want to be associated with any soft cocks who feel compelled to put the word "probably" into a statement proclaiming the nonexistence of a god.


yes. have some commitment.


It is a religious belief, yes. If you are convinced that the cosmos exists merely because something has to and that random cataclysmic events occurred billions of years ago that have coincidentally created the planet we live on and the life abundant here.

Atheism is the name given to the true conviction that there are no greater powers but the forces we observe such as gravity and radiation.


you think its co-incidence that earth is just the right distance away from the sun to sustain life? Or is it that life exists on earth because it can? If earth was created by god to sustain life then why didnt he use a better ruler and make all of earth inhabitable rather than covering 2/3 of it with water and making places like the north and south pole and the deserts? Life exists where it does because it can. There is no miracle in that.

two things come to mind.
If you talk to god.. your religous.. if he talks back.. your crazy.

and if something good happens, its gods will.. if something bad happens.. god works in mysterious ways.

At some stage people are going to have to realise that they are responisble for their own actions

[Dave Lobster]

At some stage people are going to have to realise that they are responisble for their own actions

Were that the case, we wouldn't need ACC.

[Karl08]

I am amazed at the money people on both sides of the "debate" to push their view.

Both Atheists and Christians can be dogmatic, narrow minded, pushy with their views, arrogant; and seem to posses all knowledge about life, the universe and everything. Both seem to get a kick out of baiting the other, and both sides seem incapable of respecting/ignoring the others beliefs.

Having just finished Hitchins book "God is not great- How religion poisons everything", I must say atheists have started to sound more preachy, and more intolerant of anyone who don't believe what they do (or is that don't?).

And just when you think we maybe have a slightly more enlightened, and tolerant society, someone wants to promote their view on the side of a bus- and the rest of us have to sit back and watch the fur fly.

Could be worse I guess, it could be an apology from Hone on the side of a bus- try finding someone who would believe that.


Meanwhile, Aucklanders of every creed etc silenty utter

[Karl08]

sorry.. should be who doesn't believe...

[Badjelly]

Atheism actually doesn't imply anything besides the rejection of the idea of god (in any shape or form).

As such you could, validly, argue that atheism is indeed a religion since it is impossible to prove the non-existence of god, and as a consequence it is a belief rather than any true knowledge that lies at the base of atheism....

You (and Hitcher I think) are confusing absence of belief (the core of atheism) with belief in absence.

I consider myself to be an atheist. I do not claim to have proved the non-existence of God (though I find the combination of characteristics attributed to the Christian God highly implausible). Neither do I claim to have proved the non-existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Badjelly]

And just when you think we maybe have a slightly more enlightened, and tolerant society, someone wants to promote their view on the side of a bus...

The cads! What an unprecedented insult to tolerance and enlightenment!

[bogan]

You (and Hitcher I think) are confusing absence of belief (the core of atheism) with belief in absence.

I consider myself to be an atheist. I do not claim to have proved the non-existence of God (though I find the combination of characteristics attributed to the Christian God highly implausible). Neither do I claim to have proved the non-existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

isnt abscense of beleif agnostic? and beleif in abscense is aethiest?

Also it seems funny how when aesthetics talk of religion they start picking holes in Christianity, its just one of many, some believe in a higher power without the need to refer to any established religion at all.

And I would say that bus add is a raging success, most of us probably haven't even seen a bus with it on, but having discussions anyway.

[Ocean1]

I consider myself to be an atheist.

So you don't know? You're an agnostic.

Don’t believe? You’re an atheist.

[Badjelly]

So you don't know? You're an agnostic. Don’t believe? You’re an atheist.

From Wiktionary



Noun

Singular
atheism


Plural
atheisms

atheism (plural atheisms)

1. Absence of, or rejection of, belief in the existence of God or gods.
2. The belief that there are no gods.

Usage notes

* The term atheism may refer either to an explicit belief that God or gods do not exist (sense 2 above), or to the mere lack of an explicit belief that God or gods do exist (sense 1 above). Some speakers do not distinguish between these senses; others distinguish them by using the terms strong atheism and weak atheism (respectively), or by using atheism to mean “strong atheism” and agnosticism or nontheism to mean “weak atheism”. (Similar distinctions may be drawn for related terms, such as atheist.) The distinction between strong atheism and weak atheism tends to be made primarily by atheists themselves.


Hmmm, interesting distinction in an angels-on-heads-of-pins sort of way. Do I have an explicit belief that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist? Hard to say. Do I have an explicit belief that he does? No. Do I think the possibility that he does exist is sufficiently remote that it is not worth active consideration on my part? Yes. Does my position resemble a religious belief in the existence of the Great Father of the Pastafarians? I don't see how.

Jrandom came up with a marvellous description of the distinction on another thread. I'll see if I can track it down.

[Badjelly]

Jrandom came up with a marvellous description of the distinction on another thread. I'll see if I can track it down.

Ah, here it is


But, yes, any further discussion of the definitions of 'atheist' and 'agnostic', the differences between the statements "the supernatural is simply ridiculous fairy tales based upon no evidence whatsoever" and "the supernatural is unknowable and therefore uncommentable upon", etc, should be taken over there.

Where "over there" is the Scottish Thread.

I shall take heed of the sage's warnings regarding the thread whose name must not be uttered and cease my flirtation with this forbidden topic here.

[Ocean1]

Hmmm, interesting distinction in an angels-on-heads-of-pins sort of way.

Dude, that's what the words mean. Literally.


Jrandom came up with a marvellous description of the distinction on another thread. I'll see if I can track it down.

Standing by to be enlightened.

[Badjelly]

Hmmm, interesting distinction in an angels-on-heads-of-pins sort of way.


Dude, that's what the words mean. Literally.


Hmmm, fair comment. It was bad form on my part to argue about a semantic distinction and then suggest that this was mere nit-picking. But the words "believe" and "know" are very tricky to pin down.

[Mikkel]

You (and Hitcher I think) are confusing absence of belief (the core of atheism) with belief in absence.

I consider myself to be an atheist. I do not claim to have proved the non-existence of God (though I find the combination of characteristics attributed to the Christian God highly implausible). Neither do I claim to have proved the non-existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I think you are the one who's confused. I merely stated that atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism) was:



Noun

Singular
atheism


Plural
atheisms

atheism (plural atheisms)

1. Absence of, or rejection of, belief in the existence of God or gods.
2. The belief that there are no gods.

Usage notes

* The term atheism may refer either to an explicit belief that God or gods do not exist (sense 2 above), or to the mere lack of an explicit belief that God or gods do exist (sense 1 above). Some speakers do not distinguish between these senses; others distinguish them by using the terms strong atheism and weak atheism (respectively), or by using atheism to mean “strong atheism” and agnosticism or nontheism to mean “weak atheism”. (Similar distinctions may be drawn for related terms, such as atheist.) The distinction between strong atheism and weak atheism tends to be made primarily by atheists themselves.

...as opposed to atheism having to imply you don't believe in anything at all. E.g. Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) is an atheistic religion - Buddha, while an enlightened being, is a man not a god. Plenty of superstitious dogma to go with it as well though.

However, since - as you rightly point out yourself as well - it is impossible to prove the non-existence of pretty much anything, it is ultimately a belief in and of itself.

Personally, I don't consider myself anything - neither atheist nor agnostic. I find the whole idea of having to put yourself in a pigeon-hole in order to establish your identity downright pathetic. I think Discordianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism) is probably the only term I can relate to - at least it has humour.

[candor]

My dog has a god. I bought the little wooden carving of a puppy in Egypt but not realising it's significance.

Oddly he lies by it when insecure due to strangers, and when there are fireworks in November he goes to it without fail. When he got badly hit by a bus he ran 4 blocks home from the park and was found right by it. I felt redundant. Idolator!

[Badjelly]

I think you are the one who's confused. I merely stated that atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism) was:

The paragraphs I was responding to were..


Atheism actually doesn't imply anything besides the rejection of the idea of god (in any shape or form).

As such you could, validly, argue that atheism is indeed a religion since it is impossible to prove the non-existence of god, and as a consequence it is a belief rather than any true knowledge that lies at the base of atheism.

The first is indeed an accurate statement (in my opinion) of what atheism does or doesn't imply.

The second is the one I take issue with. As someone wiser than me said, "If not believing in god is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby".

[Mikkel]

The first is indeed an accurate statement (in my opinion) of what atheism does or doesn't imply.

The second is the one I take issue with. As someone wiser than me said, "If not believing in god is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby".

My counter point being that you can have religion without a god. Thus, having no belief in god does not preclude religion. While I do appreciate the subtle difference between having no belief in god and actively believing that there is no god, I also find the distinction largely irrelevant.

Taking it a step further, since it is impossible to disprove the existence of god, it is a matter of belief rather than knowledge. If you choose to make that belief a central part of how you live and perceive your life, we are only a short step away from religion.

I was merely saying that you could, validly, argue the case. I didn't say that atheism is, has to be or is even likely to be a religion to most people.

[PrincessBandit]

Sitting waiting patiently for my thread to be magically moved to......

[wbks]

Isn't saying "belief in no god constitutes religion" a bit like putting a buttered piece of toast on a cats back and expecting anti-gravity?

[Badjelly]

...Taking it a step further, since it is impossible to disprove the existence of god, it is a matter of belief rather than knowledge. If you choose to make that belief a central part of how you live and perceive your life, we are only a short step away from religion....

There's some heavy conceptual rearrangement going on in that paragraph! Reading your writings is like watching a magician trying to distract your attention while the rabbit he is about to pull out of his hat squirms under his jacket. I mean, "since it is impossible to disprove" implies "a matter of belief rather than knowledge"? Whatever.

I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course. :)


I was merely saying that you could, validly, argue the case. I didn't say that atheism is, has to be or is even likely to be a religion to most people.

That's all right then. I agree with that entirely, except for one adverb: "validly".

[Mikkel]

There's some heavy conceptual rearrangement going on in that paragraph! Reading your writings is like watching a magician trying to distract your attention while the rabbit he is about to pull out of his hat squirms under his jacket. I mean, "since it is impossible to disprove" implies "a matter of belief rather than knowledge"? Whatever.

I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course. :)

Uh, do not compute. As for distractions, not at all intended - and I can't see how it would be, provided one is equipped with an attention spanner ;)


That's all right then. I agree with that entirely, except for one adverb: "validly".

So in which way do you consider the argument invalid?

[bogan]

well I'm with mikkel (or what he could argue anyways) The firm beleif that there is no god still requires faith. Though I'm not sure whether faith alone consitutes a religion, theres no worship/scriptures... but there some religions like that too I spose, and for the aethiests who try to force thier beleifs on others I would say it's a religion then.

[Dave Lobster]

The firm beleif that there is no god still requires faith.

Rubbish. Quite the opposite. Knowing/believing there to be no god is the opposite of faith.

[bogan]

Rubbish. Quite the opposite. Knowing/believing there to be no god is the opposite of faith.

how so? faith is defined as the firm belief in something for which there is no proof, and theres no proof that there are no gods... or does the double negative just cancel out here?

[Karl08]

Rubbish. Quite the opposite. Knowing/believing there to be no god is the opposite of faith.

Try putting that on the side of a bus.

[Dave Lobster]

how so? faith is defined as the firm belief in something for which there is no proof, and theres no proof that there are no gods... or does the double negative just cancel out here?

There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden either.

[Hitcher]

Ladies and gentlemen

While this discussion fascinates me, continuing a discussion about matters other than what some people may choose to pay to have written on the sides of omnibuses will inevitably result in part or all of this thread being "relocated" to the Thread That Is Scottish.

Heed ye well the warning of a Moderator, or feel ye the wrath of the Site Owner.

This is officially a Yellow Card.

[bogan]

This is officially a Yellow Card.

noted, have been trying to stay away from the scottish thread:spanking: at least while there is still ACC work to do anyway!

sooo, did anyone here donate to their cause? they raised a bit over 18k so far

[McWild]

In response to the first post.


New Zealand is a predominantly English speaking and the principal religion is still Christianity.

The average New Zealander will likely give more of an f about "There is no God" than "There is no Mohammed" or "There is no Buddha" as these are still minor groups of New Zealanders.


Who cares anyway. Hardout atheists have bus adverts, hardout theists have churches and cathedrals and stuff, and everybody in between (theists and atheists) well we just realise that there are more pressing matters in life.

[cowboyz]

like kiwibiker?

[Badjelly]

The average New Zealander will likely give more of an f about "There is no God" than "There is no Mohammed" or "There is no Buddha" as these are still minor groups of New Zealanders.

As has already been pointed out on this thread, Mohamed and Buddha may not be the best examples, as neither of them is claimed to be a god! But yeah, I see your point.

[phred]

I like it - I have had so many religions rammed down my throat over the years that it's a breath of fresh air to have Atheism in ya face!

I believe that having an imaginary friend is a psychotic disorder.

It can't be atheism. Atheists do not sit on the fence. Probably admits that there might be and that is the Agnostic world.

[Mikkel]

Mohamed and Buddha may not be the best examples, as neither of them is claimed to be a god! But yeah, I see your point.

We've been over this on the first page of the thread. And that's a fact.

[Karl08]

Thank God, they didn't allow Hone to write on the side of a bus...

But if they did, and he wrote his apology; we can at least all agree that there would be no one who believed in it.

How many people read the sides of buses anyway? Surely there are more viral (and cheaper) ways of getting your point across?

"Oh God, there is a Hone"

[Badjelly]

How many people read the sides of buses anyway? Surely there are more viral (and cheaper) ways of getting your point across?

Like saying you're going to pay to put a message on the side of buses and having articles written about it in every newspaper?

Anyway, money doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. They've raised $20,000 already:

http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/nz-atheist-bus-campaign-reaches-fund-raising-target-in-under-a-week/

Only $10 of it is mine.

[Badjelly]

I know reviving old threads is bad form, but it seems like the right place to point out that there are places in the world where the distinction (or lack thereof) between "There is no God" and "There is no Allah" is taken even more seriously than on the Kiwibiker forums:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6980360.ece

[Edbear]

I know reviving old threads is bad form, but it seems like the right place to point out that there are places in the world where the distinction (or lack thereof) between "There is no God" and "There is no Allah" is taken even more seriously than on the Kiwibiker forums:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6980360.ece

Kiwibiker forums are taken seriously...? :eek5: