Quads, and minimum age issue, serious discussion

[StoneY]

The quad bike fatality (very sad) of the young girl last week, and another not too long ago of an 8 year old, and despite coroners reccomendations of a minimum age to ride quads, the govt reacts with what can only be described apathy

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=13&objectid=10615415

Now I aint into 'nana'ing' every kid out there, but I am sure MOST here would agree a quad bike is far more dangerous to the very young bodies of our children than say a pee wee

We all know if you come off a two wheeled bike you can be hurt and killed, but Quad Bikes fatality rate is something like 300% that of a two wheeler

Peoples serious opinions please, should quads have a minimum age/body size factor applied?

[T.W.R]

The US CPSC mandate recommends the use of quads greater than 90cc by riders 12yrs of age & under is prohibited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-terrain_vehicle#Safety

lol interesting reading : 2005 there were an estimated 136700 injuries associated with ATVs :gob:

[yungatart]

Given that 16 kids have died as a result of crashing a quad, I would say yes, definitely!
I'm not sure what that age should be though.

I can't imagine what it must be like to lose your child, that is 16 families ripped apart....it is far too many.

[StoneY]

The US CPSC mandate recommends the use of quads greater than 90cc by riders 12yrs of age & under is prohibited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-terrain_vehicle#Safety

lol interesting reading : 2005 there were an estimated 136700 injuries associated with ATVs :gob:

Its THIS that disturbed me deeply, I had no idea it was so bad...this is higher than the road toll if you consider they refer only to off road accidents by children for the quoted period

Research published in the New Zealand Medical Journal in September found 16 children were killed and 216 hospitalised in quadbike, or ATV, crashes between 2000 and 2006.

[FROSTY]

Stoney as you may know Im involved a fair bit with small quads and 2 wheelers.
Theres a few things i've observed.
First of all the lil benchmark quad-the LT50 is no longer available new.It was a neat simple quad and most importantof a size a child can easilly handle.
The replacements available now be it the LTZ 50,the kawasaki equivilant or one of the chinese variants are bigger and heavier.Little kids struggle to physically handle them in the rough stuff. I see this all the time. Little Johnny can handle the quad in the park but when the steering is wrenched by the ruts and humps they arent strong enough to deal with it.
The issue is that parents are either overconfidentof their kids ability oir just dont realise how much effort it takes to work the controls.
sorry but what im saying in a roundabout way is its not capacity its physical size thats the issue.
Dont get me wrong a 6 year old on a 200 is just stupid but the LTZ 90 for example is only as fast as the LT50

[Deano]

I was keen to buy my son a petrol powered quad - he has an electric one at the moment (he is only 2). It originally ran on 6V but goes much better on 14.4V from my battery drill.

I am now unsure about upgrading it due to the numbers of accidents.

However, I would like to know more detail about the nature of the crashes.

The most recent one occurred on a slope and it rolled ?

So, what is the risk involved with a child riding an appropriately governed quad on the flat ? No more or less than a two wheeler perhaps ?

[Drunken Monkey]

I expect it had as much to do with the terrain as the type of vehicle as well. Perhaps it should be more a case of not using the quad in a complex, off road environment to a certain age. I can't see much issue with young kids using them on flat surfaces with adult supervision.

[The Pastor]

I'd blame the parents on this one.

[Katman]

The problem with this particular incident is that it was a full sized adults quad bike. There is no way that a 6 year old should be allowed to operate one that size.

[PrincessBandit]

I believe I read that farmers are against any age restrictions on them.

[Spearfish]

I thought farmers were against the age restriction to same with all farm machinery.

[StoneY]

Stoney as you may know Im involved a fair bit with small quads and 2 wheelers.
Theres a few things i've observed.

Exactly the kind of input we need on this topic, and the rest of your post was brilliant mate, gave me an understanding I lacked before,
Of COURSE its about physical strength, rode enough Big Reds on my mates farm to know that, thanks Frosty


I expect it had as much to do with the terrain as the type of vehicle as well. Perhaps it should be more a case of not using the quad in a complex, off road environment to a certain age. I can't see much issue with young kids using them on flat surfaces with adult supervision.

Sensible post too, and good points, there is a supervision and terrain/manageability factor to go alongside Frosty's strength/power/weight calculations


The problem with this particular incident is that it was a full sized adults quad bike. There is no way that a 6 year old should be allowed to operate one that size.

Yeah, wonder what OSH and the next coroner report will come up with over this current one

It was a commercial location, yes? Some kind of 'rent a ride' park?
Or was it the dads own machine???
Thats not quite clear to me, and relevance is related to operator responsibility

If a prior corroners report had suggested age limits, wouldnt a commercial operator need to have some kind of policy in place to age/weight requirements?

Do quads come with safety warnings regarding minimum physical size requirements to operate them?

More we discuss, more questions raised....sigh
16 families that lost kids in 6 years.....not to mention the number of serious hospitalizations......how can this go unanswered by any sensible governing body?

[neels]

I would hate to see my neighbors kids (and mine from time to time) banned from riding their little quad, it's a kid size machine that has trouble moving an adult, and they ride it mostly on a nice little flat track on the empty section next door.

Really it's up to parents to decide whether an activity is appropriate for their kids, and as long as they are educated and supervised almost anything is safe.

Otherwise you're just legislating away fun for sensible people to save the stupid ones from themselves.

[Bald Eagle]

I would hate to see my neighbors kids (and mine from time to time) banned from riding their little quad, it's a kid size machine that has trouble moving an adult, and they ride it mostly on a nice little flat track on the empty section next door.

Really it's up to parents to decide whether an activity is appropriate for their kids, and as long as they are educated and supervised almost anything is safe.

Otherwise you're just legislating away fun for sensible people to save the stupid ones from themselves.

I don't want to save the stupid ones from themselves ( Darwin Awards time ) , but I don't want to fail to protect their progeny, who might grow up to be not stupid.

[scott411]

the nz press ( esp the Herald) has done a shit house job of reporting this accident, there was no big farm quad involved as there pictures suggests, it was a kids quad, and she was not riding unsupervised,

and as per there usual m o of getting everyone to comment on the fact has brought out the usual knee jerk reactions,

[Katman]

the nz press ( esp the Herald) has done a shit house job of reporting this accident, there was no big farm quad involved as there pictures suggests, it was a kids quad, and she was not riding unsupervised,

and as per there usual m o of getting everyone to comment on the fact has brought out the usual knee jerk reactions,

My apologies for assuming that the picture of the quad bike being taken away by the tow truck was the bike in question.

[StoneY]

the nz press ( esp the Herald) has done a shit house job of reporting this accident, there was no big farm quad involved as there pictures suggests, it was a kids quad, and she was not riding unsupervised,

and as per there usual m o of getting everyone to comment on the fact has brought out the usual knee jerk reactions,

That dont look like a Kids quad strapped to the back of the tow truck taking it away, but as you say, press and presented 'facts' could well be suss

Knee jerk reaction? I totally disagree as I am sure at LEAST 17 families in NZ may (or may not) agree with, 17 off road fatalities in very young ages, all related to quad bikes of whatever size.
If this was a one off every 4-5 years, I would agree mate, but not when 16 died between 2000 and 2006, how many between 2006 and now?

I wonder how many kids have been killed on two wheeled off road bikes in that same period?

I would hate to see kids missing out on the fun too, but maynbe as Frosty points out, too powerful or too heavy....surely some basic guidelines would help?
I recall my mates farm runs 3 or 4 BIG quads, he refuses to let anyone under 50kg body weight on them

[wingrider]

I dont wont to see an over regulated system either but at the end it comes down to people being sensible.

Do we as parents or operators simply allow a child to operate something that is above that childs capability?
Do we also allow the child to operate that item without correct safety equipment? (not saying it was the case here)

In saying that, there are enough dumb arsed parents that allow their child to go out and buy a worked WRX or Evo7 at 16 believing Janet or John is bright enough to drive it in a sensible and lawful manner.

It's a bloody hard call but in the end as the adult we have to be able to say no where we feel the likely hood of injury or worse is greater than whatever enjoyment may be had.
10 minutes of fun followed by a lifetime of grief and forever those words "If Only".

[scott411]

that picture was not the quad in question, it is a file image, the quad that was involved was a kids quad, and quads are not segergated so i do not know how many were kids quads, it is one of the problems with the herald reporting, they paint the picture they wanted to, bad news sells papers

i feel for all those families, but you need to put it into perspective,

in the years in question how many kids have dies in pools or the sea?, do you plan on banning all under 16's from swimming as well?

your mate sounds very sound, and i would guess the majority of farmers are that saftey consceince as well, but a blanket under 16 ban may effect him as well, as there are plenty of 14 or 15 year old kids that can safely operate farm quads, and do so everyday,

[mashman]

The only experience i have of quad accidents was watching my 19 year old mate hooning around and throwing the 125 off the edge of a hill. He wrapped himself around a telegraph pole and the quad was totalled a further 20 feet down. He rode a 250, both on and off road, yet really didn't seem to have the skills to manage the 4 wheeler. I still to this day do not understand why he didn't turn away or brake before he crested the hill. He knew the drop off was there as we'd been joking about if for about half an hour, a little excitement got the better of him i assume...

I can only guess that similar misjudgements are to "blame" for younger people having similar accidents. It is a travesty, but short of the nana thing, it's going to be hard to stop it from happening.

[StoneY]

Im not suggesting a blanket ban on under 16's, now thats overboard

Im looking for some sanity here, trying to see what we can do differently

I have no idea how many have drowned etc but can GARANTEE more kids go swimming, and are able to swim, than kids that ride quads are actually able to manage the machine...if you follow

I dont want to instigate the whole Nana thing, but surely there must be some reasonable limit to suggest, either weight/age or cc capacity vs age....

I reckon Frosty might have the formula but what a hell of a thing to try educate/enforce nationawide in a country of daredevils

I was just stunned at the death toll by comparison other offroad machinery activities, it really hit a note

[Deano]

Yeah, wonder what OSH and the next coroner report will come up with over this current one

It was a commercial location, yes? Some kind of 'rent a ride' park?
Or was it the dads own machine???
Thats not quite clear to me, and relevance is related to operator responsibility

If a prior corroners report had suggested age limits, wouldnt a commercial operator need to have some kind of policy in place to age/weight requirements?

Do quads come with safety warnings regarding minimum physical size requirements to operate them?

More we discuss, more questions raised....sigh
16 families that lost kids in 6 years.....not to mention the number of serious hospitalizations......how can this go unanswered by any sensible governing body?

A commercial operator providing the quads for monetary gain must have a Certificate of Registration from OSH, with a list of conditions that they must adhere to.

Some conditions I am aware of are:

a minimum age of 6 years;
the type of quad the certificate relates to - in the example I am aware of it was LT50's;
the operating area had to be that the vehicles be operated on generally flat ground.

I have also been on quads at a park in Makara and we went all over the place, up hills etc, so I guess that the operator must get special dispensation to avoid that last condition ?

[scott411]

My apologies for assuming that the picture of the quad bike being taken away by the tow truck was the bike in question.


no need to apoligise, if you looked at the picture you would assume that, i think it is pretty irresponsable for the herald to run a picture like that when missrepresents the bike in question.

[MotoGirl]

I'm not convinced that an age restriction is the answer, based on my own experience living rurally and using a 250cc quad during my primary school years.

There are two things that prompt me to think this:

Confidence increases as children gain experience. The kids may be supervised while they’re initially learning to ride the quad but this supervision is likely to disappear once they've grasped the basics. If the kid is capable of using the quad to round up the cows then the parents will happily delegate the chores with little or no thought of how the kid rides the quad when they're not watching.
Riding a quad is a necessary evil. Country bumpkins are normally familiar with this type of machinery – they use it in their day-to-day lives and it’s a necessary part of contributing to the family chores. If you live on a large block of land, it’s simply not practical to walk some places. I went to a rural primary school and all of my classmates could either ride a bike or drive.

If these kids have any similarities between their upbringing and what I had, the quad will be used as the favourite toy. They will get up to all sorts of mischief, be it racing all over their land, doing donuts, going up and down steep banks, and jumping it off things. The hardest bit to control is that they will do this on their way to the paddock when they need to do chores!

Plus, how do you police activities happening on private land?

[T.W.R]

On a whole kids quads are less stable than full sized quads and generally are designed for flat terrain... hence the majority come fitted with teather ropes & govenor screws on the throttle bosses so parents can maintain control of the quad if the kid gets into trouble etc.

As for Farmers and their quads; a huge proportion do abosultely nil in respects to maintaining their machines to a safe standard of usuability and totally thumb their noses at safety guidlines for using the quads in the farming situation.

having worked on plenty I've seen close-up how neglectful farmers are in general are to their quads and it isn't just the fact of having farmworkers who have no respect for their quads it lies with the farm manager/owner to insure the machines are kept in good working condition but none do, they just get driven till they're falling apart...dairy farmers being by far the worst offenders

[scott411]

Im not suggesting a blanket ban on under 16's, now thats overboard

Im looking for some sanity here, trying to see what we can do differently

I have no idea how many have drowned etc but can GARANTEE more kids go swimming, and are able to swim, than kids that ride quads are actually able to manage the machine...if you follow

I dont want to instigate the whole Nana thing, but surely there must be some reasonable limit to suggest, either weight/age or cc capacity vs age....

I reckon Frosty might have the formula but what a hell of a thing to try educate/enforce nationawide in a country of daredevils

I was just stunned at the death toll by comparison other offroad machinery activities, it really hit a note

i understand what you are on to, but this whole accident has been missrepresented majorly, she was on a kids quad, being watched by her father, i am not sure what else you can do, i brought up the swimming example to show that sometimes accidents happen despite your best efforts. i would be really interested to know the stats on horse accidents as well, as i think they would be similar.

the problem with trying ot make certain rules is there is always an exception,

the last young girl that died in taranaki was on a farm quad, that was not maintained properly, and her father was charged over it (and i think convicted), which i think was the right actions,

this is a different thing all together, and OSH adn the police will look into it, if they think the fathers actions were bad, they will prosercute, a blanket ban will cause a whole lot more issues,

[StoneY]

Ok, so ban wont work, unenforcable, no method to make stubborn farmers change brake pads.......

Im more concerned over these motor parks and rental groups than I am a farmers situation, they live breath and shit the quad's even if poorly maintained, and despite the injuries they have i think its a non issue, and neccesary evil for the farming group as well as a part of the reallity

Its the recreational and hire quads that seems to be where the worst accidents occur to the kids

I have also done the Makara quad bike park adventures too, at least they check you out on basic skills before going bush...or did when I went

Guess its just another statsitic in the end....

Thanks for all the input everyone.
Nice to have had a decent topic discussion for once where evryone tried to make sense

[scott411]

intereting debate this is, i went looking for injury statistics for youth, and found this report,


http://www.safekids.org.nz/Downloads/Research/Safekids%20Analysis%20VLR_2.pdf

interesting that motorcycling makes the top 10 in injuries, but not death's

In the period 2001-2005, there were 475 child injury related fatalities in New Zealand. The top ten causes were:

1. Accidental threat to breathing
2. Transport Accident: Vehicle Occupant
3. Transport Accident: Pedestrian
4. Drowning/ Submersion
5. Assault
6. Electricity/ Fire/ Burn
7. Intentional Self Harm
8. Falls
9. Transport Accident: Cyclist
10. Transport Accident: Other Land Transport

In the period 2003-2007, there were 60,242 children hospitalised in New Zealand due to an injury. The top ten causes
were:
1. Falls
2. Mechanical Forces: Inanimate
3. Transport: Cyclist
4. Other Causes
5. Accidental Poisoning
6. Mechanical Forces: Animate
7. Electricity/ Fire/ Burn
8. Transport: Other Land Transport
9. Transport: Vehicle Occupant
10. Transport: Motorbike


it has been stated that 16 kids died in this year, making 3.3% of the total deaths by accident,

[neels]

7. Intentional Self Harm
Thats a bit scary:crazy:

[StoneY]

Thats a bit scary:crazy:

Sad fact, wish they still televised the Fight For Life

Teenage suicide has fallen offthe radar again...and still we have a very high rate of it in NZ
But digress....this was about specifically quad's and restrictions

Good information Scott well researched

[FROSTY]

I was keen to buy my son a petrol powered quad - he has an electric one at the moment (he is only 2). It originally ran on 6V but goes much better on 14.4V from my battery drill.

I am now unsure about upgrading it due to the numbers of accidents.

However, I would like to know more detail about the nature of the crashes.

The most recent one occurred on a slope and it rolled ?

So, what is the risk involved with a child riding an appropriately governed quad on the flat ? No more or less than a two wheeler perhaps ?
Mate i will unquestionably and unreservedly reccomend an LT50 to ya.
Theyve been around mechanically unchanged since adam was a cowboy.
I would suggest though a couple of things.
1) make sure the tether cord is on the back and buy a 3.0m lenth of clothes line rope.
Then you can run along behuind and pull the cord if he gets over confident.
2) pull the rear axle out and fit a new set of bearings.
6905-2nse -that way you know itll take your weight no worries Initially thats how i got my guys ridingme on the back and them working the throttle
3) make sure the governer screw is on the handlebar and screw it in so the quad only gets half throttle.
4)Fit foot boards over,under or arount the pegs and make sure he always wears at least gumboots whilst riding. The only real injury to any kids Ive sold quads to has been them driving over their own leg and burning themselves on the tyre.
5)Dont ever leave him out of your reach-ie the 3.0m kill rope. You will be amazed how fast things go pear shaped

[neels]

But digress....this was about specifically quad's and restrictions
A digression yes, but kind of puts in into perspective though, talking about stopping quads from killing kids until they are old enough to kill themselves.

I suspect there are very few motorcycle deaths as they are seen as dangerous and require a degree of skill to operate, whereas quads appear safe as all the kids need to do is sit on them and press the go button. The problem is when it goes wrong it can go badly wrong.

Its probably another case where education is required rather than legislation

[davereid]

Parents cant make these decisions, we need laws.

We should immediately ban, and / or 15 year age restrict :

Trees
Smoking in any home with any occupant under the age
Swimming holes and pools
Trampolines
Driveways if a child can be behind a car
Bunk beds
Bikes
Rafting
Canoes/kayaks/water skis
Contact sports
Non contact sports with dangerous balls - golf, cricket etc
Quads and powered vehicles of any kind.
Under 15s as passengers on motorcycles.

Overtime we should tackle the next most dangerous things for all age groups
Cycling
Walking in the city,
Motorcycles
Snowboarding/skiing/adventure sports
Contact sports
Tramping
Hunting
Firearms

[White trash]

My kids have an LT50. Love it to bits. So do I.

My 18 month old boy has a PW50 as well and has totaly lost interest in the quad now, I doubt he'll ever ride it again which will keep his sisters happy.

Frankly, this accident involving the little girl was a tragedy, and although her poor parents are killing themselves over it (i'm sure), they were neither negligent or inattentive. It's just sad.

I say leave it to the parents discretion. It's their call.

[rideon]

Quads (fullsize) are NOT toys & are not designed for kids under 16 to ride. It says that on the warning labels for very good reason. First issue is that quads do not have differential drives and as a result of that, active riding is required to get it around a corner - that is the use of your body weight. Children are just not heavy enough & therefore not stong enough to counter the lack of weight to turn the bike when they want to or need to. Secondly the thumb throttle takes some dexterity to use & when kids get a fright or panic, they freeze up & automatically the throttle is locked on, full noise, with the child on board petrified to let their grip off the handle bar. These quads are also far heavier that any 2 wheeler & once rolled I doubt any young child would ever get one off them. 300+ kgs VS 50 kgs - quad will win every time, sadly. Some sobering stats Re quads on NZ farms:
an accident EVERY 20 mins of EVERY day requiring first aid
an Accident EVERY 8 hrs of EVERY day needing ACC $$ of $2000+ to fix
a fatality every 3 weeks
Again - they are NOT toys & NOT for kids , get them a 2 wheeler or a kids sized one .
I teach Agriculture which includes the safe use of ATV's, have ridden quads for 20+ years, & it always saddens me when kids especially are hurt & killed on these. Legislation is not the answer but education on the dangers of these is.

[James Deuce]

I believe I read that farmers are against any age restrictions on them.

Farmers are against anything that limits their access to child labour or mandates compulsory safety equipment, either roll cages for tractors or helmets for open topped vehicles with no roll over structure or a PTW.

Legislation is the answer. Farmers have proven themselves over and over again as incapable of being educated, usually with some feeble excuse about how having to take a helmet on and off would affect their productivity.

As for supervising their children around heavy equipment or equipment that is clearly unsuitable for a child to operate they stray well into territory that would have have urban based authorities removing children from families.

[mctshirt]

Riding a quad is a necessary evil. Country bumpkins are normally familiar with this type of machinery – they use it in their day-to-day lives and it’s a necessary part of contributing to the family chores. If you live on a large block of land, it’s simply not practical to walk some places. I went to a rural primary school and all of my classmates could either ride a bike or drive.


That's why God invented the Ag motorcycle.

Quads are killers whether ridden by adults or children. Quads are cost efficient. They are not a necessity because there are alternatives.

Short answer if it goes pear shaped on a bike the rider tends to be thrown clear or can lift the bike off. When it goes pear shaped on a quad there's no where to go and no-ones lifting a quad off themselves.

Adults and children need to treat them with the respect they deserve and not use them in ways they're not designed to do:
A quad is not a tractor.
A quad is not a 4WD utility.
A quad is not a go anywhere motorbike.
A quad is not a dune buggy.

Ridden sensibly quads are a useful tool but go outside a quads design limitations and they tend to kill rather than injure.


If these kids have any similarities between their upbringing and what I had, the quad will be used as the favourite toy. They will get up to all sorts of mischief, be it racing all over their land, doing donuts, going up and down steep banks, and jumping it off things. The hardest bit to control is that they will do this on their way to the paddock when they need to do chores
It would appear parental responsibility and rider education are sadly lacking - legislation won't help if you're an irresponsible simpleton. We learnt fairly quickly through the use of some fairly unsubtle language and direction (walk till you learn) that dicking around on the farm bikes wouldn't be tolerated.

[pritch]

Statistics and news stories seem somewhat remote. The teenaged son of a woman I work with rolled a quad bike while on a trail ride last weekend and was helicoptered to hospital with a dislocated hip. That didn't make the papers.

[TimeOut]

That's why God invented the Ag motorcycle.

Quads are killers whether ridden by adults or children. Quads are cost efficient. They are not a necessity because there are alternatives.

Short answer if it goes pear shaped on a bike the rider tends to be thrown clear or can lift the bike off. When it goes pear shaped on a quad there's no where to go and no-ones lifting a quad off themselves.

Ridden sensibly quads are a useful tool but go outside a quads design limitations and they tend to kill rather than injure.


It would appear parental responsibility and rider education are sadly lacking - legislation won't help if you're an irresponsible simpleton. We learnt fairly quickly through the use of some fairly unsubtle language and direction (walk till you learn) that dicking around on the farm bikes wouldn't be tolerated.

I agree, if you fall off a two wheeler generally you can get clear of it (done it many times)
If you have an accident on a four wheeler 90% of the time you'll end up under the 4 wheeler that's when the serious injuries happen.

[MotoGirl]

It would appear parental responsibility and rider education are sadly lacking - legislation won't help if you're an irresponsible simpleton. We learnt fairly quickly through the use of some fairly unsubtle language and direction (walk till you learn) that dicking around on the farm bikes wouldn't be tolerated.

I understand that supervision and guidelines are the key while the kid is learning, but once the kid is competent and always behaves in front of mommy and daddy, the parents could perceive any "direction" to mean they are preaching to the converted. In their minds, why fix something that ain't broken?

In my experience, the trouble happens when mommy and daddy aren't watching - when they think you are responsible enough to go on without supervision. How do you allow parents to use their discretion if they are being fooled by their own kids?

[FROSTY]

I think Motogirl has hit nail on head really.Theres a not so fine line between wrapping our kids in cotton wool and letting em loose.
MDU talked about it awhile ago but Im gonna twist it a bit
He takes his lad out shooting a rifle at a target. Now an 8 year old with a loaded rifle we know is pretty dangerous. But by controlling the situation firmly its not a concern Now I think its safe to say if said 8 year old took the rifle and shot it without dad around there would be hell to pay.
I feel a quad or I must say a bike needs to be treated with the same respect and that respect can only come from the parents.
Useing Deano as an example (sorry mate) I d hate to think he would plonk his 2 year old on an LT50 and leave him to it.

[BM-GS]

It's got to be up to the parents, and they have to be able to make an informed choice. We have an LT50 quad for #2 son (4.5 yrs old) and he's happy on that,though is casting envious looks at big bro's 2-wheeler, which we've said he can have a go on as soon as he can touch the ground while sitting on it. I doubt he'll ditch the quad straightaway as I don't think he'll be ready to ride it properly for a year - he just doesn't seem ready, and his attention-span makes your average goldfish look like a philosopher.

The LT50 weighs about 50kg and the replaement model with suspension & gubbins weighs a load more than that. He's only 20kg and we've already seen that quads and hills don't mix. If he's out, he's got us or another responsible adult) within 30 seconds of him, and he'll be on a kid-quad-friendly track, probably at mini-mx or the Sandpit. Mini-mx change the track for the little quads, so there's very little chance of rolling it. However, accidents do happen and kids can freeze, as described in an earlier post in here. However, there are lots of kid-savvy adults around the track.

Not that kids are the only ones who get into trouble. Adults crash quads too - and bikes and cars. The diference is that adults are supposed to be able to decide what's safe, or at least acceptably so, but nobody can foresee everything. Every parent knows that kids get into mischief, it's kind of expected. Nothing to do with age, weight or anything, sometimes just opportunity, or just wrong place/wrong time.

Gotta go now, taking the kids out for a cycle. Probably to a BMX park which should be coated in rubber so they don't fall & hurt themselves... Mitigating against the fact it may not be by taking helmets, mx gloves and band-aids. Just hope the other kids there are wearing bubble-wrap, in case they crash into us.

[StoneY]

Great summary Frosty, and your right Motogirl has an excellent take on it

I guess when I started the thread, asking 'Ban?' was a result of the past 10 years of Nana state living (and I am a Red supporter, but never mind that I dont agree with full on cotton wool)

Yep, with supervision and education, I am sure quads can be great fun for kids
But with the fatalaities and serious injury rate, surely there must be some way to TRY find a solution? If not via legislation, then how?

Kids will behave in dads view and turn into a madman once left alone.... its also natural for them to push boundaries, test limits and beilieve in their indestructability, so kids and quads IMO = almost agaranteed disaster unless Frosty or someone like him happens to be the teacher/supervisor/parent

I guess, its all the parents fault to some extent, with some exceptions like this recent one where the care WAS taken and still a disaster occured(poor buggers)

[Grasshopperus]

i understand what you are on to, but this whole accident has been missrepresented majorly, she was on a kids quad, being watched by her father, i am not sure what else you can do,

How about don't put it on a relatively heavy, relatively powerful vehicle as a form of entertainment in the first place.

Seriously, why the hell do you 'tards think that putting kids in control of motor vehicles is a good idea?

Do you do it because your little darling likes it or you because you don't want the kid feeling left out that he doesn't have a bike just like yours? FFS, you're an adult, they're a child, you make the decisions. THERE IS NO REASON FOR KIDS TO DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLES.

If you own a farm and it was running OK before you had kids then you don't need to put your 5-y.o on a bike, that's you being cheap or lazy. If you live in a city/town and not a farm then the only reason you've bought them a bike is because you're spoiling them and you're weak-willed; you can't say no.

How about a push-bike, it lets them drive around, on wheels (yay for you), and it gets them building up their muscles and get some fitness. Fitness and exercise, you know, that thing that kids in NZ don't get enough of.

Stop accessorizing your kids, you people make me sick.

[PrincessBandit]

How about don't put it on a relatively heavy, relatively powerful vehicle as a form of entertainment in the first place.

Seriously, why the hell do you 'tards think that putting kids in control of motor vehicles is a good idea?

Do you do it because your little darling likes it or you because you don't want the kid feeling left out that he doesn't have a bike just like yours? FFS, you're an adult, they're a child, you make the decisions. THERE IS NO REASON FOR KIDS TO DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLES.

If you own a farm and it was running OK before you had kids then you don't need to put your 5-y.o on a bike, that's you being cheap or lazy. If you live in a city/town and not a farm then the only reason you've bought them a bike is because you're spoiling them and you're weak-willed; you can't say no.

How about a push-bike, it lets them drive around, on wheels (yay for you), and it gets them building up their muscles and get some fitness. Fitness and exercise, you know, that thing that kids in NZ don't get enough of.

Stop accessorizing your kids, you people make me sick.

Those words are a little harsh, but I agree in principle with what you are saying. No one ever sets out to injure their kids (unless you are a child beater) yet everyday they are exposed to situations where more often than not it's just good luck that they don't hurt themselves seriously.

I've heard so many parents crow about how their little Johnny is only 3 but knows how to turn the keys in the family cars ignition, and other such crap. Hell, even monkeys could do that if they watch you enough!

Parents have a huge responsibility in ensuring their kids (and other peoples kids) are kept safe, yet unthinkingly encourage the very things which can easily turn to custard. Boundaries, limits, restrictions - these all seem to be dirty words to some. Yet there's a time and place for all of these things.

[L Rider]

It's got to be up to the parents, and they have to be able to make an informed choice. We have an LT50 quad for #2 son (4.5 yrs old) and he's happy on that,though is casting envious looks at big bro's 2-wheeler, which we've said he can have a go on as soon as he can touch the ground while sitting on it. I doubt he'll ditch the quad straightaway as I don't think he'll be ready to ride it properly for a year - he just doesn't seem ready, and his attention-span makes your average goldfish look like a philosopher.

The LT50 weighs about 50kg and the replaement model with suspension & gubbins weighs a load more than that. He's only 20kg and we've already seen that quads and hills don't mix. If he's out, he's got us or another responsible adult) within 30 seconds of him, and he'll be on a kid-quad-friendly track, probably at mini-mx or the Sandpit. Mini-mx change the track for the little quads, so there's very little chance of rolling it. However, accidents do happen and kids can freeze, as described in an earlier post in here. However, there are lots of kid-savvy adults around the track.

Not that kids are the only ones who get into trouble. Adults crash quads too - and bikes and cars. The diference is that adults are supposed to be able to decide what's safe, or at least acceptably so, but nobody can foresee everything. Every parent knows that kids get into mischief, it's kind of expected. Nothing to do with age, weight or anything, sometimes just opportunity, or just wrong place/wrong time.

Gotta go now, taking the kids out for a cycle. Probably to a BMX park which should be coated in rubber so they don't fall & hurt themselves... Mitigating against the fact it may not be by taking helmets, mx gloves and band-aids. Just hope the other kids there are wearing bubble-wrap, in case they crash into us.

Hi, like your 2 boys our 2 kids go to NHMMX too. Our oldest started on an LT50. He rolled & flipped his at a race meeting held at Leightons - in one race he rolled it then nxt lap flipped it, then 2 races later he rolled it again. Once he got thrown clear & twice he was pinned underneath. I must add these offs were his own fault - he thought you could go full speed downhill & into corners. Lesson learnt even though it took 3 times!! Sometimes there isn't any telling them & they need to discover for themselves.
Not a single scratch on him (he was lucky), tough or is it crazy?, kid he is he just jumped on & started again.
Daughter on the other hand, was riding hers at at event where you camped & parked bikes in the rugby field. Small rise in the ground she went up too slow, tipped, didn't let go of bars so landed on elbow, breaking it whilst still holding the bike.

Having had these happen to me they were just 'accidents' nothing major & not really any different than a 2 wheeler or even a pushbike.
We do not take kids to places that are beyond theirs or their bikes capabilities. Unfortunately many parents do & this is when major things go wrong such as the girl at Thunder. Where she was no kid on a quad should have been.

[ukusa]

I would feel safer with my kids learning to ride a quad or dirtbike under my supervision on a track/farm, than have them riding solo on a pushbike on the road. Saying that, as a responsible parent the quad or dirtbike would be of a size & power to reflect the experience of my child.
The issue of a small child on a large quad (or dirtbike for that matter) is a no brainer, It is a parents decision to make, and if they make that decision I feel it's irresponsible. No different than letting your 15yo kid who just got their licence to go out alone in your V8 or turbocharged car.. a stupid decision.

I do feel for the poor parents in this latest case, but I feel there are enough examples of it happening over the last few years for parents to make a responsible decision based on the age, bike, & experience of there child (I don't know the exact details of this latest incident, i am making a generalisation for all parents).

Saying that, I am dead against another namby pamby ill thought out law being creating by a govt who thinks adults can't make their own decisions. Sure some can't make good decisions, but a law banning this type of thing will only fail. If there was a ban for say under 12's, what will stop people teaching their kids on private farms etc (where alot of the accidents happen). This cannot be policed.

[mashman]

Yeah, wonder what OSH and the next coroner report will come up with over this current one


Looks like they've already looked at the problem and decided it's too much like hard work (or at least they don't want to legislate against farmers).

http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj34/34-kids-on-quads.html