CBR vs ZXR

[wbks]

Discuss. Are CBR's really that small in the saddle? Really faster than ZXR's? How big are you CBR riders out there?

[woodyracer]

CBR's are more compact, they just fell abit samller, the kawasaki have a bigger feeling to them and the fairings are bigger.

Ive been told from RED BARON that the cbr's are slightly higher tuned than the ZXR and are 3-5 more HP

[wbks]

They're both rated at 45 hp... Is that compactness to the point of not feeling as comfortable, would you say?

[woodyracer]

i did find that the cbr was more comfortable and just fell nicer because everything fitted together nicer.....but the zxr is still comfortable, probualy better for a bigger person.

[Addict]

I am almost 6 foot and weigh 78ish kg and I find my CBR quite comfortable although I am considering getting the seat reupholstered with extra padding - a bit sore after 3 hrs riding.

[woodyracer]

I am almost 6 foot and weigh 78ish kg and I find my CBR quite comfortable although I am considering getting the seat reupholstered with extra padding - a bit sore after 3 hrs riding.

well they wernt made as a tourer....but im sure with a nice seat they would make possibly the best 250 tourer because they have serious grunt for a 250.....

[The Pastor]

im also selling a performance exhaust for the mc22, makes it way faster

[woodyracer]

im also selling a performance exhaust for the mc22, makes it way faster

how? i didnt think they had emision problems back then.....i guess honda have always made their exhausts Resricted

[wbks]

What are CBR's like on engine wear? As an example, all ZXR's I've heard of or ridden need the cam chain tensioner replaced as they get older, so do CBR's have parts like that which commonly flunk out? How high usually do they get on the odometer before they start grenading?

[mynameis]

CBR's are more compact, they just fell abit samller, the kawasaki have a bigger feeling to them and the fairings are bigger.

Ive been told from RED BARON that the cbr's are slightly higher tuned than the ZXR and are 3-5 more HP

Red Baron :bash:


They're both rated at 45 hp... Is that compactness to the point of not feeling as comfortable, would you say?

More like 32 33 Hp

[digsaw]

CBR= no cam chain,tis gear driven:baby:

[wbks]

Red Baron :bash:



More like 32 33 HpI'm not being sarcastic, but where the hell did you get those figures? Or are you just being funny?... Even very high kilometer ones, on a more honest (rather than optimistic factory) dyno test would still put out within 40hp I would guess. Dropping more than 10hp is a pretty big statement for a little engine wear!:buggerd:

[wbks]

CBR= no cam chain,tis gear driven:baby:I see!:cool: Thats nice. Are there any problems that you know about with the 250s, though?

[huff3r]

I'm not being sarcastic, but where the hell did you get those figures? Or are you just being funny?... Even very high kilometer ones, on a more honest (rather than optimistic factory) dyno test would still put out within 40hp I would guess. Dropping more than 10hp is a pretty big statement for a little engine wear!:buggerd:

Umm... factory claims are at the engine... so with losses he's probably about right for what the RWHP will be..

Never expect the factory numbers at the wheels! It's gotta go through a clutch, gearbox, two sprockets, a chain and a tyre before it gets there!

[wbks]

Yea of course, I assumed he was being pessimistic, not just calling at the wheels.

[huff3r]

Yea of course, I assumed he was being pessimistic, not just calling at the wheels.

He might've been in which case your bullshit call is entirely valid :D

I've personally seen the losses and watched people cry as their cars don't run up the dyno anywhere near what they expected... until my tutor explained why to them :lol:

My poor BMW only managed a measly 77kw (albeit with a busted thermostat so not warmed up)... there are bikes on here with more power than that! :weep:

[koba]

I've never ridden a ZXR but the CBR 250's I've ridden I rate VERY highly, I would own one if they wern't so hideously expensive.

[wbks]

If the CBR250s and zixers from the early 90's put out at least as much power as my old ZXR A which I'm sure they do, I'll be happy. Would you guys call 70,000 km's high for a cbr, or do they run up more than that without going postal?

[huff3r]

If the CBR250s and zixers from the early 90's put out at least as much power as my old ZXR A which I'm sure they do, I'll be happy. Would you guys call 70,000 km's high for a cbr, or do they run up more than that without going postal?

I know of at least one thats been round the clock and no real issues.... new owner didnt even know itd been round the clock... :2thumbsup

[The Pastor]

how? i didnt think they had emision problems back then.....i guess honda have always made their exhausts Resricted
yes the headers are restrictive, as well as the muffler.

they also have a 180k/hr speed limiter

[wbks]

yes the headers are restrictive, as well as the muffler.

they also have a 180k/hr speed limiterSo why not just knock out the baffles? No.8 wire and all that

[SS90]

I'm not being sarcastic, but where the hell did you get those figures? Or are you just being funny?... Even very high kilometer ones, on a more honest (rather than optimistic factory) dyno test would still put out within 40hp I would guess. Dropping more than 10hp is a pretty big statement for a little engine wear!:buggerd:

Uh oh, the "horsepower" arguement has sprung up again.

Numbers vary wildly, and all dyno's are not equal (let's allow a %age of error from one to the other of 10%)

But that said, the same bike might make 40 horsepower on one dyno, and 39 on another.

Let's not split hairs.

I operate dyno's for a living in Europe, and while I haven't seen a 250 ILF on a dyno since I was in NZ, I remember they where all around the mid 30's when it came to power.

I found this dyno run just googling.

It's a fair representation I recon.

I have posted this one before.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=109570

[wbks]

Uh oh, the "horsepower" arguement has sprung up again.

Numbers vary wildly, and all dyno's are not equal (let's allow a %age of error from one to the other of 10%)

But that said, the same bike might make 40 horsepower on one dyno, and 39 on another.

Let's not split hairs.

I operate dyno's for a living in Europe, and while I haven't seen a 250 ILF on a dyno since I was in NZ, I remember they where all around the mid 30's when it came to power.

I found this dyno run just googling.

It's a fair representation I recon.

I have posted this one before.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=109570Yes, but like I said to huff3r, if he was talking at the wheel I wouldn't disagree, but I would be very surprised if you read at the crank 35 hp... Ahwell. The lack of power is probably what makes them so fun to play around with in the tight stuff. When you said that the later cbrs are more powerful than the zxr250s, by how much is that?

[Slyer]

My GPX250 is supposed to get mid 30's...

[wbks]

get your knee down, or does it just fall over when you lean to far?...

[Hahn]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1129370408&postcount=9

[wbks]

thats a pretty good reading at the wheel, then

[Grasshopperus]

As a 6"0+ 120KG sumo-hero I can say that the ZXR is comfortable whereas the CBR is cramped for me.

Also, spacetubes FTW

[SMOKEU]

The MC19s have Mitsubishi fuel pumps which tend to fuck out, even at low mileages. Not a cheap fix either.

[wbks]

As a 6"0+ 120KG sumo-hero I can say that the ZXR is comfortable whereas the CBR is cramped for me.

Also, spacetubes FTWNot trying to be a dick here, but do you have any trouble going hard on that? How fast have you had it?

[wbks]

The MC19s have Mitsubishi fuel pumps which tend to fuck out, even at low mileages. Not a cheap fix either.Hmm, options at the moment are a 92 zxr with 40k kms, or a 92 cibber with 70 thou... What do you think?

[huff3r]

Hmm, options at the moment are a 92 zxr with 40k kms, or a 92 cibber with 70 thou... What do you think?

Sit on them both, see whats comfy

I doubt you'd notice any difference in performance anyway

[wbks]

Sit on them both, see whats comfy

I doubt you'd notice any difference in performance anywayill ride them both before chosing obviously, just curious about the high kms of the cibber, you can never know how long until it starts to blow up unless you have experience with them. I think my zxr had the same ks but ran great, but that is a zxr and they make their power at a lower rev, so probably wasnt ridden as hard

[Scotty595]

My mech said the CBR's are pretty much indestructible. Just change the oil ever 5000kms and you wont have a problem. Have seen plenty at 70,000+ kms

My CBR is sweet, I am pretty big at about 110-120kg and i have gotten it up around 160-170. I find it very comfortable to ride.

[wbks]

My mech said the CBR's are pretty much indestructible. Just change the oil ever 5000kms and you wont have a problem. Have seen plenty at 70,000+ kms

My CBR is sweet, I am pretty big at about 110-120kg and i have gotten it up around 160-170. I find it very comfortable to ride.Sounds like it will come down to which I prefer the ride of most, then. Did you get there easy enough? Did it have more to go or was that tops? Not that sluggish with a heavier person on it?

[Scotty595]

Sounds like it will come down to which I prefer the ride of most, then. Did you get there easy enough? Did it have more to go or was that tops? Not that sluggish with a heavier person on it?

I'd definitely say its down to which you prefer. It got there pretty quickly, It really takes off after bout 13-14000rpm. Its definitely not sluggish even with me on it. handles nicely too. (I have an MC19 btw)

I could have probably pushed it slightly higher but it really would have taken a bit of time.

[avgas]

Power/Torque curve differences.
CBR seems to have a nice ramp up at peak power, ZXR is almost linear.
ZXR has better torque down low, but obviously doesn't have the same increase rate as the CBR
both have very similar power and torque peaks.
Been told this is all done with different airboxes and headers (zxr has a balancer pipe).

CBR feels slightly skinnier and lighter. But the ZXR is more planted (or feels it).

Different strokes for different folks. What always put me off the CBR was the engine whine.

[wbks]

Power/Torque curve differences.
CBR seems to have a nice ramp up at peak power, ZXR is almost linear.
ZXR has better torque down low, but obviously doesn't have the same increase rate as the CBR
both have very similar power and torque peaks.
Been told this is all done with different airboxes and headers (zxr has a balancer pipe).

CBR feels slightly skinnier and lighter. But the ZXR is more planted (or feels it).

Different strokes for different folks. What always put me off the CBR was the engine whine.Well the peak hp is almost at the limiter for the cbr, right? the peak of zxr from what I could tell was about 15k, dropped off after 16 thou. I might end up choosing the zxr just because of the familiar sound it makes at about 14-16 thousand revs that I grew to love:cool: Sounds less "sanitized" than the cbr

[Scotty595]

Well the peak hp is almost at the limiter for the cbr, right? the peak of zxr from what I could tell was about 15k, dropped off after 16 thou. I might end up choosing the zxr just because of the familiar sound it makes at about 14-16 thousand revs that I grew to love:cool: Sounds less "sanitized" than the cbr

I haven't ridden the ZXR but wouldnt mind trying one out at some point :cool:

I've ridden my mates FZR though and it feels like the CBR has a lot more low/mid than the FZR.

I love the sound of the CBR but im biased

[Juzz976]

I've ridden my mates FZR though and it feels like the CBR has a lot more low/mid than the FZR.

I love the sound of the CBR but im biased

Sounds like the exup is off, FZR should have more low down torque the reason it has the exup valve, not just emissions.

70,000k's is a bit high especially when you consider 250's are mostly ridden by learners whoo are not only rough riders but generally less experienced with tools/maintenance.... if you have maint/repairs you'll find things like stripped threads, screw heads and damaged bits.

I'd look at something with lower k's, I liked the ZXR & CBR but value for money and low k's I got the FZR 2KR and my insurance is real cheap!

[SMOKEU]

I'd definitely say its down to which you prefer. It got there pretty quickly, It really takes off after bout 13-14000rpm. Its definitely not sluggish even with me on it. handles nicely too. (I have an MC19 btw)

I could have probably pushed it slightly higher but it really would have taken a bit of time.

My MC19 has a definate power surge starting at 15,000rpm, not 13-14,000rpm.

[Cheshire Cat]

CBR's are more compact, they just fell abit samller, the kawasaki have a bigger feeling to them and the fairings are bigger.

Ive been told from RED BARON that the cbr's are slightly higher tuned than the ZXR and are 3-5 more HP

big fairings=uncomfortable.
thats why cbr's are better

[wbks]

Anyone know how difficult it is to derestrict a 94 cbr?

[sil3nt]

My GPX250 is supposed to get mid 30's...At the rear wheel? Give ya 10 bucks if it dynos over 32 :bleh:

[wbks]

At the rear wheel? Give ya 10 bucks if it dynos over 32 :bleh:if cbs get 35 max, i doubt ur gpx gets 30

[sil3nt]

if cbs get 35 max, i doubt ur gpx gets 3029 with modified exhaust. Not sure what else he has done so another 4 or 5 HP might be possible?

[wbks]

29 with modified exhaust. Not sure what else he has done so another 4 or 5 HP might be possible?installed a harley engine?

[sil3nt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HejmlXHlcmk

26 stock standard. Sounds about right. 29 was taken from here http://www.twobros.com/Cust_Service/Dyno_Charts/dyno_kawa_ex250_2006.pdf which puts stock at 28. So new exhaust and modified airbox might get it up around 30.

[Scotty595]

My MC19 has a definate power surge starting at 15,000rpm, not 13-14,000rpm.

Yeah, I start to feel it hard at 15,000 but can feel it starting to roll on at bout 13-14k (mainly when in 4th-6th on motorway)

[SMOKEU]

Yeah, I start to feel it hard at 15,000 but can feel it starting to roll on at bout 13-14k (mainly when in 4th-6th on motorway)

It feels similar to a VTEC Integra, that sudden surge in power as it comes into its power band.

[The Pastor]

thats a pretty good reading at the wheel, then
um its not at the wheel.

[Scotty595]

Have you considered a 3LN - FZR?

Everytime I ride my mates it puts a massive smile on my face because the sound is just fucking insane. It really screams, and it feels faster than my cbr too (it doesn't go faster, just feels it)

[Phreak]

Did anyone think that maybe the earlier quote might have been Kilowatts not Horsepower? All the spec sheets on pre-1994 CBR 250's say 45HP and 34kW.

Only question is whether this is at the engine or the back wheel...

[brendonjw]

Any manufacturer HP or KW figure is at the engine, they never post the at the wheel figure

[Grasshopperus]

Not trying to be a dick here, but do you have any trouble going hard on that? How fast have you had it?

Yeah, I've seen people say they've had their ZXRs up to 185Km/h. I've only managed to get 160 on a long straight and it really starts slowing down at 140.

I'm almost the same weight as the bike ffs. I'm sure the low HP bikes are affected much more by rider weight than say cars or big bikes.

[Slyer]

Yeah, I've seen people say they've had their ZXRs up to 185Km/h. I've only managed to get 160 on a long straight and it really starts slowing down at 140.

I'm almost the same weight as the bike ffs. I'm sure the low HP bikes are affected much more by rider weight than say cars or big bikes.
I've managed 170 on my GPX250

[koba]

Yeah, I've seen people say they've had their ZXRs up to 185Km/h. I've only managed to get 160 on a long straight and it really starts slowing down at 140.

I'm almost the same weight as the bike ffs. I'm sure the low HP bikes are affected much more by rider weight than say cars or big bikes.


I've managed 170 on my GPX250

Yeah, yeah, blah blah.

I've seen 190KPH on my RG150, but it was 160KPH in actual speed.

Speeds by the speedo mean nothing anyway, timed sprint events are the best way to know what the actual speed is.

[ducatilover]

Anyone know how difficult it is to derestrict a 94 cbr?

Head is different. Cams and headgasket are different and the dci unit is different. Oh and so is the tach :cool:

[wbks]

Head is different. Cams and headgasket are different and the dci unit is different. Oh and so is the tach :cool:So they pretty much gayed it up, then

[ducatilover]

So they pretty much gayed it up, then

Yeah. I think that is exactly what they did....

[Thaeos]

Yeah. I think that is exactly what they did....

Well that's gay.

[ducatilover]

Well that's gay.

Ultimately.

I'm buying an MC19. Theyre a nice toy. Not as good as an mc22 but I don't have that much money :(