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sinned
18th December 2009, 05:57
I like toys – GPS units are nice toys and they do have some use in the real world. This review is of a nice to have toy that works really well.

Shortly after GPS units for use in cars came onto the market I bought what was then a top Navman model. It cost close to $1000 and worked well in the car – with a pleasant female voice to keep me on route. From time to time I set the Navman up on the bike but for a multitude of reasons it was never satisfactory.

When the Zumo550 came on the market I had a bit of a yearning to get one but thought – why not wait awhile for the price to come down and for an improved model. About a year ago I put the Navman on Trademe and sold it as I could see the investment was about to be totally lost. Garmin had promoted a new and yet to be released model, the Zumo660, to replace the Zumo550. In New Zealand the price of the 550 was coming down and supply was limited. I decided I didn’t want to buy an old model and would wait for the 660.

It was a long wait. When the Zumo660 was released in the USA a number of GPS geeks on the Zumo forum (http://www.zumoforums.com/index.php) who had bought the units posted about all the problems with the new model. The new model was missing some of the functionality that was in the 550, had a lot of bugs and there were issues of reliability. So I watched the forum and waited to see what fixes Garmin would provide to the firmware and for a newer release of the model to be released in NZ. In mid year I was told the model may not be released in NZ and yes, I could have bought one from the USA but given the problems with it decided the risks were too high.

In the end I gave up on the idea of a Zumo660, reassessed my needs and did more research. My desire (not need as who really needs a GPS) was for a GPS that will work on a motorcycle, in the car and as a portable/handheld unit. The GPS I selected was a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx. It is reported as being one of the best handheld units available. Read a review here (http://www.letsgomobile.org/en/review/0058/garmin-gpsmap-60csx/).

The GPSmap 60CSx is an excellent unit and it provides me all I need in a GPS for the motorcycle. I am not saying it is better than a Zumo. For motorcycle touring the Zumo has a number of features that would make it a brilliant bit of kit for a tour of distant lands (Europe or the USA).

Garmin provide with their GPS units a free software program ‘Map Source’ to plan routes and save tracks of where the GPS has been. The trip logging feature is what I use and value highly with the 60CSx. When I return from a ride the trip log is downloaded to Map Source in the PC and I can view every part of the trip on a map display in Map Source or, with one click, display the trip in Google Earth. This allows to me review every section of the road travelled; how fast was I going when I passed the truck, my average speed, top speed, time stopped at traffic lights, etc.

While the bike is fitted with a RAM mount for the GPS most of the time the GPS is not on display. I put the GPS in the tank or tail bag to record all my significant rides.

Map Source provides similar functionality to Google Maps for planning a route and once the route is planned in Map Source it is uploaded via USB to the GPS. I sourced NZ road maps from the NZ Open GPS Project instead of buying the Garmin map. These free maps are very good and are updated as changes are advised by users.

I use the navigation feature (‘go to’) on most rides as it provides instant information on progress towards the destination. The screen can be configured to display up to 37 different data fields. I have selected to display with the road map graphic fields for: ‘distance to next’ turn/road, ‘distance to destination’, ‘time of day’, ‘ETA at destination’. This provides all the information I need. The ‘distance to next’ is sufficient for navigation and when nearing the turn a graphic of the turn and text instructions pop up. There are no voice prompts with this unit and in my opinion they are not necessary and there is already too much noise for my ears to deal with. The GPS unit is fitted on the bike just inside the line of sight and the screen is very clear in any lighting conditions. You would have to be asleep at the bar to miss a turn.

See photo of GPS on the bike and displaying my navigation screen.

There is a trip computer screen which has 8 fields. Speed freaks could use this to display speed, max speed, average speed, moving average, velocity made good, etc. The information displayed on each screen is easily changed by the user. You may not want to display maximum speed but the data is saved if you want to have a look. To view all the standard screens see these pages (http://www.letsgomobile.org/en/review/0058/garmin-gpsmap-60csx/page8/) in the review mentioned above

Powering the unit and battery life is important and I wanted a unit with sufficient battery for a long day ride. The 60CSx uses 2 AA batteries and has a cable for 12V connection to a vehicle. While connected to the computer the unit is powered through the USB cable. I have bought 2 sets of NiMH rechargeable batteries and they will run the GPS for 20 – 30 hours. For night time rides I will use the power cable to an outlet on the bike so the backlight can be run all the time.

In summary the good points of the GPSmap60CSx as a motorcycle GPS are:

Compact, good shape, waterproof and rugged
Clear screen, big letters, works in any lighting, wide viewing angle
Excellent battery life, replaceable batteries and ext power cable
Navigation with NZ free maps works well
Extensive points of interest file provided with the NZ maps
Log file provides a record of all your trips.


As an in car GPS it also works well. The receiver is super sensitive and the GPS keeps locked on to satellites when almost any where in the vehicle. Because of my experience with the Navman I bought an extension aerial for mounting on the windscreen. It wasn’t necessary (a waste of money) and the GPS works fine sitting in the junk compartment between the front seats.

If you take photos the log file provides the location where you took a photo; based on the log time and photo taken time. There is software that will match images to coordinates from the GPS log.

As a hand held it is the best.

sinned
18th December 2009, 08:00
The attached image shows Map Source with the log file and track displayed on the map. If you enter a set of coordinates from the log file into Google Earth or Google Maps the section of road (Rimutakas) will be displayed.

Blackbird
18th December 2009, 09:45
Agree with your assessment:2thumbsup. I've got a 76 CX which looks very similar and I'm very happy with it. Bought it mainly for when travelling overseas as it's small enough to fit easily in a pocket and is also good for my boat for marking scallop beds etc:whistle:. I stuck with Mapsource 6.13.7 because the later version ran much slower. Also have some NZ aftermarket autorouting software (Brent's Maps - http://www.nzgpsmaps.com/index_1024_768.html) .

slofox
18th December 2009, 10:25
Excellent review sinned and food for thought. Thanks a heap.

EDIT: Just looking at your pix there - would it be possible to post up a pic of the mount itself? I'd like to see where you have attached it. Every time I think about mounting something on my own bike I wonder where the hell I would affix the mount...

sinned
19th December 2009, 11:05
Excellent review sinned and food for thought. Thanks a heap.

EDIT: Just looking at your pix there - would it be possible to post up a pic of the mount itself? I'd like to see where you have attached it. Every time I think about mounting something on my own bike I wonder where the hell I would affix the mount...

The RAM mount I fitted replaces the back of the brake clamp, or the clutch clamp. Photos added.

Chisanga
19th December 2009, 11:14
Sorry I may be dozy and missed it... but how much did you pay for it?

slofox
19th December 2009, 11:40
The RAM mount I fitted replaces the back of the brake clamp, or the clutch clamp. Photos added.

Mucho Gracias...:2thumbsup

cold comfort
19th December 2009, 13:42
I have recently aqquired the same unit. My unfamiliarity/incompetence however does not impress the sales guy who runs for cover when i appear (only twice in my defence). Mapsource would not read maptoaster -the edit function was turned off on the drop down menu. (he had no idea btw and it was computer tech that pointed it out.
Anyway, i took it on the Routeburn recently to find the position it gave at points did not match the latitude on the map!! Any idea why that is?

The Pastor
19th December 2009, 14:51
i bought one for hunting, its brilliant

slofox
19th December 2009, 15:09
.
Anyway, i took it on the Routeburn recently to find the position it gave at points did not match the latitude on the map!! Any idea why that is?

Update your map software - there was a bit of publicity recently about some of the older maps being inaccurate. Latest updates should fix...

Cloggy
19th December 2009, 18:48
Anyway, i took it on the Routeburn recently to find the position it gave at points did not match the latitude on the map!! Any idea why that is?
One possibility. Make sure its set to "WGS84" for the map datum.
Under "Set Up" then "Units".

cold comfort
20th December 2009, 09:00
Cheers, yes it is set to WGS 84. Will check the currency of the maps slofox. It sounds logical they are out of date even though they were a recent purchase and should have been updated.

sinned
20th December 2009, 15:40
Mapsource would not read maptoaster -the edit function was turned off on the drop down menu. (he had no idea btw and it was computer tech that pointed it out.
Anyway, i took it on the Routeburn recently to find the position it gave at points did not match the latitude on the map!! Any idea why that is?


One possibility. Make sure its set to "WGS84" for the map datum.
Under "Set Up" then "Units".

Might be a dumb question but have you selected grid measures which match? I use degrees, minutes, decimal minute. The GPS, Map Source, Google Maps and Google Earth all need to be the same.

Hitcher
20th December 2009, 17:05
Presumably this gizmo is cheaper than a zumo 550?

Jantar
20th December 2009, 17:28
One possibility. Make sure its set to "WGS84" for the map datum.
Under "Set Up" then "Units".

This is the cause of the error. Most people do have their GPS set to WGS84, but until a few weeks ago the New Zealand mapping standard was New Zealand Geodetic Datum 2000. This caused an offset of 2 - 300 meters between GPS and map.

Unless you are using the latest Topo maps then set your GPS to New Zealand Geodetic Datum 2000 when working off maps.

sinned
20th December 2009, 17:52
Presumably this gizmo is cheaper than a zumo 550?
The short answer is yes. However, by how much depends on where they are purchased.
In Sept I bought the GPS from Trig Instruments and paid:
GPS $487 +gst
12V cable $34 + gst
Note that only the world base map is provided. I downloaded the free NZ maps.

23 Nov Map World advised me the Zumo 660 will be available in December at a price of $1145.

Hitcher
20th December 2009, 17:54
The short answer is yes.

Thanks. I presumed that there had to be some sort of financial advantage to offset the lack of functionality.

Cloggy
20th December 2009, 18:14
This is the cause of the error. Most people do have their GPS set to WGS84, but until a few weeks ago the New Zealand mapping standard was New Zealand Geodetic Datum 2000. This caused an offset of 2 - 300 meters between GPS and map.

Unless you are using the latest Topo maps then set your GPS to New Zealand Geodetic Datum 2000 when working off maps.

The new mapping standard for topographic maps is NZTM2000 (NZ Transverse Mercator) which replaced the NZMG (NZ Mapping Grid).
NZTM2000 uses NZGD2000 as its datum.
NZGD2000 and WGS84 are essentially coincident according to LINZ and for most practical purposes can be assumed to be the same.
My slightly older (5 years) Garmin Etrex Legend Cx doesn't even have the option of selecting NZGD2000.

Leyton
20th December 2009, 21:40
Hey dude, The unit does not get upset with all the jiggeling of the bike ? The unit has a fluxgate compass inside it does it not ?

I have one for hunting and find it just awsum, If it was safe to use on the bike.. even better.

Cheers
Leyton

Hoon
21st December 2009, 09:38
Good review!
The GPS 60Cx is the cheaper option without the builtin compass for about 20% less. I bought my 60Cx for military use and didn't want the built-in compass as it's not as accurate as our prismatics and it also sucks battery power.

Its kind of a gimmick really, as for road use you don't really have any need for the compass and for bush use it isn't accurate enough to really rely on.

I bought my 60Cx brand new off ebay for US$305 landed about 2 yrs ago. Probably get them for around US$250 now.

sinned
21st December 2009, 16:47
Good review!
The GPS 60Cx is the cheaper option without the builtin compass for about 20% less. Its kind of a gimmick really, as for road use you don't really have any need for the compass and for bush use it isn't accurate enough to really rely on.


I have turned the compass off and removed that page and the Altimeter from the page selection menu.

cold comfort
21st December 2009, 17:38
The new mapping standard for topographic maps is NZTM2000 (NZ Transverse Mercator) which replaced the NZMG (NZ Mapping Grid).
NZTM2000 uses NZGD2000 as its datum.
NZGD2000 and WGS84 are essentially coincident according to LINZ and for most practical purposes can be assumed to be the same.
My slightly older (5 years) Garmin Etrex Legend Cx doesn't even have the option of selecting NZGD2000.

Just spoke to the GPS dealer. Apparently for use with topo maps it needs to be set to Geodata 49. WGS 84 is, acc to othe dealer, for marine use

Cloggy
21st December 2009, 17:57
Just spoke to the GPS dealer. Apparently for use with topo maps it needs to be set to Geodata 49. WGS 84 is, acc to othe dealer, for marine use
Depends on the age of the topo maps in use I guess. I still have some old topo maps aquired in the early 80's which are based on NZGD1949.
There is some good reading explaining it all here:
http://www.linz.govt.nz/geodetic/datums-projections-heights/index.aspx

cold comfort
21st December 2009, 19:29
Depends on the age of the topo maps in use I guess. I still have some old topo maps aquired in the early 80's which are based on NZGD1949.
There is some good reading explaining it all here:
http://www.linz.govt.nz/geodetic/datums-projections-heights/index.aspx

Thanks for that. Enlightening reading. GD 1949 eh? Why the hell would he recommend an outdated system to link with brand new topo maps? I shall seek advice elsewhere i think. Might get someone on the DB1k to have a fiddle and cf their units. If mine gives a different position i will be right pissed off.

Hoon
21st December 2009, 22:05
Yep I had to change to Geo '49 late last year. I was on an Army Exercise in Waiouru at the time, all our GPS's were showing 300m south of our true location and no one knew why. Wasn't until I got back home and surfed it up that I found out how to fix it (*cough* yes it was me that set them all up to WGS84).

cold comfort
22nd December 2009, 10:16
Hi- many thanks for your comment. Problem solved it appears. Good to have a consensus. I have changed it and look forward to no glitches next tramp.:yes:

sinned
22nd December 2009, 17:37
Yep I had to change to Geo '49 late last year. I was on an Army Exercise in Waiouru at the time, all our GPS's were showing 300m south of our true location and no one knew why. Wasn't until I got back home and surfed it up that I found out how to fix it (*cough* yes it was me that set them all up to WGS84).
I hope your job isn't targeting artillery - friendly fire isn't that friendly.

mctshirt
23rd December 2009, 05:54
The LINZ explanation of Datums and Projections is a bit gobbledygook for my taste. DoC do a good explanation here:

http://gis.doc.govt.nz/website/help/DOCgis2Tutorial.htm

Essentially NZ Map Grid (or GD1949) is the old standard. NZ Transverse Mercator (or GD2000) is the new standard and location is expressed in seven digit Eastings and Northings (metres from an imaginary point). NZMG and NZTM co-ordinates are quite different so theoretically you can't mix them up.

NZMG is 2D and NZTM is based on a sphere and to all intents and purposes uses the same grid as WGS84. Old NZMS260 and NZMS262 topo maps are in NZMG and the new Topo50 and Topo250 maps are in NZTM.

WGS84 is the world system based on a sphere using degrees, minutes and seconds from latitude and longitude. All GPS's think and store data in WGS84 - it will speak to you in other projections if you tell it to.

You don't need to understand how the projections work - only there are 3 commonly used ones here in NZ and which one you're using. If you try to mix them up the error can be a couple of hundred metres.

The LINZ site has a calculator for translating co-ordinates from one projection to another.

Devil
24th December 2009, 08:14
Thanks. I presumed that there had to be some sort of financial advantage to offset the lack of functionality.
Well in reality it appears to have a whole lot more features than the zumo as far as mapping and navigation goes. Its good for hiking (carrying extensive altitude information and even a barometer with trend graphs), boating (carries navigational charts) and road adventures. It'll even route offroad which i'm told the zumo wont do (from someone who owns the zumo and the 60csx).
It's even more rugged.

Downside is it doesn't have the big flash screen of the zumo, or the bluetooth stuff.
Still a kick arse unit. I'd get the 60CSx just because it's more versatile. HOWEVER the zumo is some nice bling...

sinned
24th December 2009, 17:48
Thanks. I presumed that there had to be some sort of financial advantage to offset the lack of functionality.


Well in reality it appears to have a whole lot more features than the zumo as far as mapping and navigation goes. Its good for hiking (carrying extensive altitude information and even a barometer with trend graphs), boating (carries navigational charts) and road adventures. It'll even route offroad which i'm told the zumo wont do (from someone who owns the zumo and the 60csx).
It's even more rugged.

Downside is it doesn't have the big flash screen of the zumo, or the bluetooth stuff.
Still a kick arse unit. I'd get the 60CSx just because it's more versatile. HOWEVER the zumo is some nice bling...

Thank you for your reply to Hitcher. I was going to elucidate the features of the 60CSx for his benefit but couldn't be bothered. It is a very good unit and its versatility makes it a better unit for me than either of the Zumo models.

I have just purchased a Dick Smith branded windscreen mount for it. Off in the cage tomorrow to visit and explore.

Gremlin
30th December 2009, 15:56
Well in reality it appears to have a whole lot more features than the zumo as far as mapping and navigation goes. Its good for hiking (carrying extensive altitude information and even a barometer with trend graphs), boating (carries navigational charts) and road adventures. It'll even route offroad which i'm told the zumo wont do (from someone who owns the zumo and the 60csx).
It's even more rugged.

Downside is it doesn't have the big flash screen of the zumo, or the bluetooth stuff.
Still a kick arse unit. I'd get the 60CSx just because it's more versatile. HOWEVER the zumo is some nice bling...
It really depends what you want from a GPS I guess. I find the touch screen on the zumo handy, its bigger, allowing you to see more of the map etc, and has music playing, including a SD/SDHC card slot.

It is definitely confined to bikes or cars as such. Short battery life, more limited re barometer (just elevation, compass etc), but if you turn on track logs, you can see where you have been etc.

Rugged? My zumo has had a pretty hard life on top of the KTM, couple of bails, lots of rough gravel roads, lots of wheelies etc, and it still performs flawlessly... couldn't imagine needing anything tougher. :2thumbsup

Steve Hanmer
14th July 2010, 18:17
GPS and Coordinate Systems
Being a surveyor I can explain what is up.
The geodetic datum is the shape of the earth we use for our surveys-maps.
The map projection is how that is going to be shown on a flat surface or your GPS screen.

GEODETIC DATUM - New Zealand changed to Datum 2000 (from an old system based on star observations) which is now compatible with WGS84, the system GPS are based on.

See
http://www.linz.govt.nz/geodetic/datums-projections-heights/projections/new-zealand-transverse-mercator-2000/index.aspx

MAP PROJECTION - Historically NZ used NZMG (New Zealand Map Grid) which is a clever mathematical projection unique to NZ. Historically we had to tell GPS units to adjust themselves to the NZMG system. When you set up NZMG in a GPS the machine knows automatically to transform the WGS84 data -> about 200m to the New Zealand geodetic datum -> to output as NZMG coordinates.

Currently if you have the availability in your GPS you use NZTM2000.

NZTM2000 - Means New Zealand Transverse Mercator (the latest map projection) using the Geodetic datum 2000. The GPS knows (as the digital map files downloaded identifies this as part of the data) what geodetic datum to use and also the correct type of map projection.

The old NZMG (New Zealand Map Grid) maps are in theory 200m difference in position. BUT having said that the map specifications were based on printed maps, prepared from aerial photographs with an accuracy based on plotting the lines (for example a road) on a large scale map. Which could hundreds of metres off but fine for the purpose of a map. It is fair to say that modern GPS are more accurate than the topographical mapping data available underneath.

Over time the mapping data will just get better and better. The points that you save such as favourite coffee shop, garage and place to 'powder your nose' will remain correctly identified on your GPS until they are moved on the ground.