A bit of a dilemma - advice please

[FROSTY]

The senario is that my oldest boy wants to do some trackdays and maybee try racing.
heck go figure I'm all for that.
Thanks to the generosity of BILLY I got him a KR150 ready to rock.
The deal was if he did well at school and in his exams then the bike was his to ride.
Well his results sucked quite frankly.
But the last week in the great classroom called "the real world" he has worked his arse off with no mention of the bike being a possible reward.
In the real world he is unquestionably a pass for attitude,effort and result.
So the quandry for me is -do I stick to my guns to make sure he pulls his socks up next year ?
Or reward him in a tangable way for his effort?

[nallac]

give him a lash on the bike...

Some of us are/where useless at school work but good at the real life practical stuff, as your boy has proven..

[Mully]

give him a lash on the bike...

Some of us are/where useless at school work but good at the real life practical stuff, as your boy has proven..

+1.

Formal education didn't work for me - stick or carrot.

Give him something in the real world to use as motivation, while maintaining that you expect him to do his best in the classroom as well.

[Kickaha]

The deal was if he did well at school and in his exams then the bike was his to ride.

If that was the deal then stick to it, by going back on it you're showing him he doesn't need to stick to any "deal" and can still be rewarded

Perhaps set some different criteria, but don't make it to easy or rewards will just become expected all the time

[jim.cox]

So the quandry for me is -do I stick to my guns to make sure he pulls his socks up next year ?
Or reward him in a tangable way for his effort?

He'll make better effort next year if he gets some reward this year I reccon

But you need to be honest with him about your decisions - make sure he knows that you do think this year "pretty much sucked"

But reward him for the effor since - and tell him you expect similar next year - he'll step up to the mark

Not everyone works or learns the "school way"

And a loving flexible father has got to be better than rigid ram-rod

Well anyway that's my $0.02 worth

[vifferman]

Yeah, it's a dilemma alright, Frosty.
The thing is, did he actually work hard but failed to do well because it was out of his reach, or just goof off and not bother trying?

I guess you just need to weigh up which is more important to you: keeping your word and teaching him a lesson, or wanting to do something nice for him.
Any chance you're just hoping he'll turn out to be a great racer and you're anxious to kick-start that, despite him not fulfilling his end of the deal?

[James Deuce]

Future potential sponsors will be a lot less forgiving to a racer who expects everything for nothing.

[Ronin]

Thats a difficult one. I would stick to your guns on the main deal BUT, I would consider giving him a taste at a track day to reward him for the hard work he has put in at the workshop etc. Your obviously very proud of him and to honest I don't see giving him 1 trackday is backing down on the deal. Unless of course he screwed around at school. If he honestly gave it his best then go for it.

[yungatart]

Stick to the deal Frosty, as heartbreaking as it may be for him, the real world isn't forgiving.
By results, what do you mean though?
If he didn't get excellence for academic achievemnet but did for the effort he put in, than that is an excellent result, in my book, anyway.
if academia isn't his thing, then make the focus on the effort he puts in to schoolwork/homework etc...not everyone is capable of high results, but everyone is capable of trying hard...reward that!

[Subike]

If that was the deal then stick to it, by going back on it you're showing him he doesn't need to stick to any "deal" and can still be rewarded




This is the right advice.
You have set your boundries, and He Knows what they are.
Stick to your origional agreement and he will respect you more for it in the long term.
If you fold now, you set yourself up for the future when the next deal is made, and he almost gets there, but not quite, and you fold again.
It is far easier to say NO and stand by that, end of story, than to say yes and for ever have to explain why that yes was "only right for that time"
Other than that, ask him if he thinks he has honered the deal you made, incentives to do well, once laid, must stay solid or its a waste of time doing it in the first place.

[onearmedbandit]

This is the right advice.
You have set your boundries, and He Knows what they are.
Stick to your origional agreement and he will respect you more for it in the long term.
If you fold now, you set yourself up for the future when the next deal is made, and he almost gets there, but not quite, and you fold again.
It is far easier to say NO and stand by that, end of story, than to say yes and for ever have to explain why that yes was "only right for that time"
Other than that, ask him if he thinks he has honered the deal you made, incentives to do well, once laid, must stay solid or its a waste of time doing it in the first place.

+1 and what kickaha said. Stick to your guns.

[jim.cox]

Stick to your origional agreement and he will respect you more for it in the long term

But be sure you both agree on the "original agreement" - was it for results or for effort? Hanging onto semantics and denying a reward he thinks honestly earned is hardly like to motivate the future

Or you could reward the recent effort differently and separately - ie: doesn't get the big prize - but does get something else.

I like the idea of a track day, but that it is still your bike , better luck next year"

It IS wise to be firm, but not unyielding

[avgas]

Sorry Frosty.....but you are too soft.
Mabey a consolation prize for the effort - but I am still young enough to know that mediocrity is easily achieved even with a lot of effort.
You have to realize that the education system has no fear factor to it anymore. There is no pass or fail. Therefore you have to give him the drive to succeed.
Also to those of you who say his son should just 'give up' and work in the real world. Who stole your thunder? There is nothing stopping Frosty's kid kicking arse inside and outside school.
How about a double bet for next year frost? If he does well at school he gets a track-day, if he ALSO does well at something outside of school (work, trade, earn a couple of $$$, sports.....you name it)
You help him race a season.
Motivating someone is a lost art - but you have a chance here for you son to make
something truly great of himself. The world is not completely split between "workers" and "students"

[Genie]

I'd have to say....put the bike in the shed and stick to your word. A man is only as good as his word. A great parent is the meaniest one!

He'll thank you for it when he is older and just imagine the tools you're giving him for when he is a parent. (later, much later!!)

[CookMySock]

do I stick to my guns to make sure he pulls his socks up next year ? Or reward him in a tangable way for his effort?Keep it real, Frosty. If you want to prepare him for the real world, then ask yourself what the real world is like. The real world is not going to reward him with mediocre results, and neither should you.

Get him into some sport, and let that teach him some lessons. He needs to see that if doesn't try, he doesn't win, and if he doesn't win, he doesn't get jack shit. Let him do the maths on that.

Thats the way of the world, bro, and its a lesson he should learn now, not when he's 40.

Take him to the racing for sure, and maybe get him a little ride, but as for having his own racebike - not until targets are met.

Maybe it's time for you two to get into his homework with him, and grab him by the bootlaces and give him a lift.

Good luck. It's tough being a dad.

Steve

[FROSTY]

Thanks guys you are validating my thinking.
A reward for busting his arse all week is due no question there. just not THE reward.

[Grasshopperus]

If that was the deal then stick to it, by going back on it you're showing him he doesn't need to stick to any "deal" and can still be rewarded

Perhaps set some different criteria, but don't make it to easy or rewards will just become expected all the time


Future potential sponsors will be a lot less forgiving to a racer who expects everything for nothing.


not everyone is capable of high results, but everyone is capable of trying hard...reward that!
AMEN!!!! This is so true.

I read a paper about this sort of thing a while ago, one of the interesting they observed was that some kids in a class had lots of fun painting for no reason. Then they began to extrinsically reward the children for painting, and so the children started to paint a lot more. Then the rewards stopped, and so did the painting.

There's a name for this effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect

The best thing to reward is effort not results.

$0.02

[NinjaNanna]

I think there is a middle ground here, in the real world, education makes things easier, better pay, better opportunity etc, etc.

But in the real world there are also lots of people that get by/ get ahead with out a great education - the difference being they typically have to work harder at it.

So here's a plan, agree on a $price for the 150, buy the boy something small (like the QUAD) that he needs to work on then sells, he then buys something else, works on it and sells again (get the point), if you do it right after perhaps the 3rd or 4th project he then has the dollars to buy the 150 from you outright.

At that point he's then earned it and bought it with his own $$$, it's his to do whatever he wants with it, race, sell, crash, what ever.

Hopefully this teaches him that, hard work outside school can pay off to, but don't forget to point out that a little effort at school would have meant that he'd have earnt it much sooner. Much like real life really.

[Okey Dokey]

My gut instinct is to say stick to the original plan. But perhaps a lesser "treat" of some sort in honour of his real world achievemnts. Good luck!

EDIT: sorry, just saw you made decision Dec 19... I skipped ahead to post reply...

[Mikkel]

Just bear in mind not everyone is a potential A+ student - not even if they put in an A+ effort. Demanding the impossible has never brought out the best in anyone!

I don't know your boy or what his abilities are. But if you suspect that he has put in all the effort he possibly could, then letting him know that you expect more is going to cause more damage than good.

In any circumstance, having the bike sitting around doing nothing is a waste. Possibly tell him to work to earn the money to keep it running, but support him in everything else.

[imdying]

So the quandry for me is -do I stick to my guns to make sure he pulls his socks up next year ?
Or reward him in a tangable way for his effort?Yes... the rewards for last weeks effort is having a go on the race bike offered again as a reward for getting results in the first term of the new year. Tell him if he slacks off between now and the start of school, then that offer will no longer be on the cards.

Stick to your guns, he'll get more out of it in the long term.

[Forest]

Give him the bike.

Then tell him that if his grades are good next year, you'll give him the engine.

[avgas]

Give him the bike.

Then tell him that if his grades are good next year, you'll give him the engine.

I love this one.
When I think about it - this is exactly what my dad did.
Gave me a box of TS185 parts. For every hour of my time on the orchard he would give me an hour of his time on the bike.
We had it complete in 6 months.

[FROSTY]

well he's been hooning in the latest addition to the kids collection. A grass kart.