New website to attack the model

[mowgli]

I've launched a website (http://www.mowgli.net.nz) to attack the ACC funding model. Just some spare webspace I had hence the unconnected URL. Plan on putting more stuff up there over the break.

[short-circuit]

Fantastic. Well done.

[paddy]

I've launched a website (http://www.mowgli.net.nz) to attack the ACC funding model. Just some spare webspace I had hence the unconnected URL. Plan on putting more stuff up there over the break.

That's an excellent plain English description as to what is happening. Well done.

[mashman]

That's an excellent plain English description as to what is happening. Well done.

What he said... Top job man...

[Laxi]

yep well done, that's the whole issue put into 1 web page! emailing link to all contacts now:niceone:

[mowgli]

yep well done, that's the whole issue put into 1 web page! emailing link to all contacts now:niceone:
Yup. Some clever strategist knew that singling out bikers would get the country pointing fingers at each other. "Someone has to pay. If not you then me. I don't want to pay so I'm against you". It's complete distraction to the real question which is whether anyone should pay at all.

[Conquiztador]

Well done! But you might want to update the "Who's affected" page to reflect the actual figures.

[Pixie]

Will send the link to all the lazy pricks in my email list who won't get off their fat arses and ride to a protest. :angry2:

[p.dath]

Well done. Good website.

[mowgli]

Well done! But you might want to update the "Who's affected" page to reflect the actual figures.
Do you have a link to a good reference article with all the updated figures?

[DEVVIL]

Well done!!! Will send link to some cage owners.

[Conquiztador]

Do you have a link to a good reference article with all the updated figures?

Try here: http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government+announces+201011+acc+levy+rates

Here: http://business.scoop.co.nz/2009/12/10/government-announces-201011-acc-levy-rates/

Or here: http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?articleId=31628

[Azi Dahaka]

Very nicely done you did miss crims out as well they may be bad but they are still voters

[Genie]

thanks....that explains so much. I understand so much more.

[phred]

Excellent summary. I have sent the link to many of my fence sitting friends.
I think the clear statements should spread the mesage.

[avgas]

pre-funded babies! should be compulsory.

good site though

[glegge]

this is awesome.
you may or may not want to include information from this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=114739) which i started as a place to gather useful information..

cheers

[mowgli]

I'm about ready to go. Please PM me any politicians, media or advocacy groups that you feel might listen.

[munster]

Good work. I'm spreading it around. Tis on facebook.

[oldrider]

I don't want to stop National dismantling and privatising ACC!

What I want National to do is to stop lying and tinkering and pretending it is the taxpayers fault and that ACC is in debt because of dangerous motorcyclist's etc!

I just want National to tell the truth and get on with the job, sooner, rather than later!

Failing that, I will join with and support the socialist lefties who want to return to a basic (Woodhouse) no blame ACC welfare system!

Meanwhile, ACC welfare is being both abused and politically tinkered with by all parties and it is causing an enormous drain and strain on the whole NZ society!

Not to mention the political circus of distraction ACC provides to disguise other political mischief our politicians get up to while "we" are distracted!

The real problem with ACC, is, abuse of the system and political tinkering by all the political parties!

They will not leave it alone until you/we (voters) make them!

Personally, I prefer private ACCident insurance (freedom of choice) to ACC (State controlled no choice monopoly) welfare but I hate lying bull shitter's more!

National are nothing more or less than the "blue" Labour party!

Out of the Clark frying pan, into the Key fire! :brick:

[short-circuit]

I don't want to stop National dismantling and privatising ACC!

I just want National to tell the truth and get on with the job, sooner, rather than later!

Because you are an arsehole



Meanwhile, ACC welfare is being both abused and politically tinkered with by all parties and it is causing an enormous drain and strain on the whole NZ society!

This is a massively overstated and completely unsubstantiated myth - used by right wingers (to legitimise the otherwise indefensible) and lapped up by rednecks and fools

[yachtie10]

Because you are an arsehole



This is a massively overstated and completely unsubstantiated myth - used by right wingers (to legitimise the otherwise indefensible) and lapped up by rednecks and fools

Wow thats got to be one of the most idiotic posts ive seen (and thats saying something on KB)

get up on the wrong side of the bed and cant see out of your one-eye?

Happy new Year

PS I dont want ACC privatised I just want it to be run as what it is supposed to be. i.e. not a extension to the welfare system but a compensation scheme for people who have genuine accidents.

[oldrider]

Because you are an arsehole



This is a massively overstated and completely unsubstantiated myth - used by right wingers (to legitimise the otherwise indefensible) and lapped up by rednecks and fools

You obviously only read the bits of my post that your fuddled brain can conceive!

Let me help you, the middle ground between the two (political) ideals, is (IMHO) where the danger lies for everyone except the politicians.

That is the position we are facing now, ACC is a political football that "all" politicians love to kick!

I would like it to be it to be one or the other.

I prefer private free choice insurance over welfare monopoly!

I am prepared to go against personal preference and join forces with socialists, why?

In order to achieve re-establishment of the originally intended (Woodhouse) no blame version of ACC as a second choice, preferable to the status quo!

ACC is a welfare system and is a government (State) controlled no choice monopoly!

No take it or leave it, what you see is what you get! Game over! Not my personal preference!

I expressed my personal (freedom of choice) opinion and you call me an arsehole? Why? Because you (short-circuit) are a self confessed socialist!

Socialism: (Concise Oxford dictionary)

Political and economic theory of social organisation which advocates that the community as a whole (I.E. The State)
should "own and control" the means of production, distribution and exchange!

Which includes: ACC, health, education, thinking, behaviour, what you do, where you go, what you say, virtually everything, all controlled by people like short-circuit!

This might sound attractive to some people but not to me, give me individual freedom of expression, every time!

[Winston001]

I've launched a website (http://www.mowgli.net.nz) to attack the ACC funding model. Just some spare webspace I had hence the unconnected URL. Plan on putting more stuff up there over the break.

Good on you Mowgli, the site is well set out and easy to read. Personally I support pre-funding just as we are doing with Kiwisaver and the NZ Superannuation Fund but it doesn't matter. You have grasped the nettle and produced a good site for info. :2thumbsup

[davereid]

I prefer private free choice insurance over welfare monopoly!

I completely agree with you about the option of free choice.

Unfortunately, New Zealand is so socialist that it will never be able to happen.

Even if we consider criminals, and decide to deny them ACC we will still fix them up. It will just be paid out of the general health budget rather than the accident budget.

One way or the other, we will still pay for the accidents of others, through tax, ACC or compulsory insurance.

The question then, is not one of choosing to pay or not. It is predetermined that as socialists we will pay.

The question is, what do we do to get the best value at the lowest cost.

Woodhouse wins that one, hands down.

[mowgli]

I completely agree with you about the option of free choice.

Unfortunately, New Zealand is so socialist that it will never be able to happen.
Nice post. I've added the following to the website.

Privatisation will cut out the idiots and freeloaders

If ACC is privatised the premiums for some high-risk activities will go through the roof. Do you think that will stop people from skiing, mountain biking, playing rugby or riding motorcycles?

For better or worse New Zealand is a socialist society. Accidents that fall outside the privatised ACC will inevitably be picked up by the public health system and social welfare. Even groups who you might think don't deserve ACC cover (criminals committing a crime) would be picked up by the socialist safety net.

Inherently safe activities will be carried by private insurers and funded by your no-claims bonus, reduced premiums. Meanwhile you will continue to pay for all the freeloaders and idiots through general taxation.

So which represents the best value for the lowest cost? Owen Woodhouse (father of ACC) wins that one hands down. Privatisation simply adds profit taking and another layer of bureaucracy.

[oldrider]

I completely agree with you about the option of free choice.

Unfortunately, New Zealand is so socialist that it will never be able to happen.

Even if we consider criminals, and decide to deny them ACC we will still fix them up. It will just be paid out of the general health budget rather than the accident budget.

One way or the other, we will still pay for the accidents of others, through tax, ACC or compulsory insurance.

The question then, is not one of choosing to pay or not. It is predetermined that as socialists we will pay.

The question is, what do we do to get the best value at the lowest cost.

Woodhouse wins that one, hands down.

Very true!

Of the two political ideologies in NZ I agree, it will be ACC preferred by a country mile over private free choice ACCident insurance!

I can live with that, even help fight to preserve it but could not go any further into the stifling socialist ideological quagmire than that!

Even at it's best socialism is but a recipe for mediocrity and I am not advocating that for the future of my grandchildren!

To me this National government is very disappointing!

Despite the veiled thrust toward freedom of choice ACCident insurance, their methods and behaviour demonstrate a seedy lack of respect for the electorate at large!

I believe they will move in any direction to remain in power and can not be trusted to deliver anything but their own self interests.

Vote any colour you like in NZ it will still be a motley socialist government in power! (sigh) :kick: Damn!

[NONONO]

Very true!

Of the two political ideologies in NZ I agree, it will be ACC preferred by a country mile over private free choice ACCident insurance!

I can live with that, even help fight to preserve it but could not go any further into the stifling socialist ideological quagmire than that!

Even at it's best socialism is but a recipe for mediocrity and I am not advocating that for the future of my grandchildren!

To me this National government is very disappointing!

Despite the veiled thrust toward freedom of choice ACCident insurance, their methods and behaviour demonstrate a seedy lack of respect for the electorate at large!

I believe they will move in any direction to remain in power and can not be trusted to deliver anything but their own self interests.

Vote any colour you like in NZ it will still be a motley socialist government in power! (sigh) :kick: Damn!

Thank God, my world is restored! Could not disagree more John.
Capitalism is not about freedom, it's about a very small elite controlling the means of production and excluding the rest of us from any meaningful democratic process.
John, you have paid into ACC for a long time, that's your money (and your families money in that scheme). You and yours have helped to build it up. It's the concept of "Dead Labor". The Capitalists now want to sell it off, what kind of return on your investment are you expecting from the sale?
capitalism at it's best...see Hanover Finance.
As for stating that NZ is a Socialist country, like it or not, well that's simply untrue. NZ is a Social Democracy, as are some of the most successful states in the world. The very real threat to our freedom is not from Socialist ideas but from the free market "hands off" monetarist, shoot em up, right.
You want fries with that?

[davereid]

Capitalism is not about freedom, it's about a very small elite controlling the means of production and excluding the rest of us from any meaningful democratic process.

I think you are confused.

Having a small elite in control is possible in any financial system, its part of human greed.

The concept of freedom is based around the right to choose, and limitation of the power of others.

As a general principle, you are "free" when it is illegal to use violence or force against others except in self defence.

Pure Libertarian Capitalisim is based on this voluntary agreement - I offer to sell, you may accept, but it is your choice.

Taxation cannot exist in a pure Libertarian Capitalist Society. As no one has the right to use force, you cant use violence to extract taxes.

Society may rule (in its self defence) that you have to have safe sewerage disposal. But you are free to choose who you get to provide that service.

Communisim, Socialisim and indeed typical modern capitalisim crosses the line, by assuming that the state has powers conferred on it by individuals that err didnt ever have that power to delegate.

So the state decides it now has the power to take what the state requires from those that have it by force.

The more capitalist the society, the less the state violence is tolerated.

These waters are muddied by the concept of land ownership.

In a pure libertarian world confusion reigns. To own land you had to purchase it by voluntary agreement from its owner. But his ownership of it, in the real human world was likely achieved by violence, or at best an unsupportable claim of first discovery.

Communists have no such problem. Its the States land, if you dont like it, off to the correction facility with you !

In summary,

Democracy is the usual cry of the statist, citing majority rule as his authority to use force for the benefit of the majority

Also known as mob rule, the classic example being three kids in the playground, two vote that the third kid has the best lunch and beat him up and take it.

This:
Is impossible in a libertarian capitalist world.
Is possible in a basterdised capitalist world.
Is likely in a socialists world.
Is essential for a communist world.

[NONONO]

Wow, that's some twisted logic you got there mate.

[oldrider]

Wow, that's some twisted logic you got there mate.

So many men, so many opinions, " freedom of choice", I choose Libertarian capitalism and democracy over socialism!

Confucius say, open a window, you are bound to let in a few flies! :shifty:

Socialists are the flies coming through my window but at least they will always have the freedom to be flies!........Raid anyone? :shit:

[NONONO]

Keep expecting to see phrases such as "cold dead hands" peeking through.

[bogan]

pretty damn good site:niceone: tis a one stop shop for how ACC changes affect any NZer, and thats exactly the info we need to get out there.

[davereid]

Wow, that's some twisted logic you got there mate.

Please feel free to explain the error of my ways...

[Skyryder]

So many men, so many opinions, " freedom of choice", I choose Libertarian capitalism and democracy over socialism!

Confucius say, open a window, you are bound to let in a few flies! :shifty:

Socialists are the flies coming through my window but at least they will always have the freedom to be flies!........Raid anyone? :shit:


Flies are good. They catch fish.

Might be 'buzzin' down your way early Jan. Can I come in thru the door??

Mrs Fly might be with me.:shit:


Have a happy:love: New Year to you and yours OR


Skyryder. (Head Fly):jerry:

[oldrider]

Flies are good. They catch fish.

Might be 'buzzin' down your way early Jan. Can I come in thru the door??

Mrs Fly might be with me.:shit:

Have a happy:love: New Year to you and yours OR

Skyryder. (Head Fly):jerry:

True!

Sounds great, will you be on the bike? Will you be needing a bed? Lunch? Whatever???

No need to knock, a window will be left open for you!

Don't stand on the welcome mat, it has been woven out of those old sticky fly tapes, ideal for catching stray socialists! :lol:

Happy new year to all you Skyryder's too! (Head fly? Maybe I better ask Mrs fly about that!) :shifty:

[Skyryder]

To early for me in the new year for this. Still getting over the Xmas spirit etc.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

True!

Sounds great, will you be on the bike? Will you be needing a bed? Lunch? Whatever???

No need to knock, a window will be left open for you!

Don't stand on the welcome mat, it has been woven out of those old sticky fly tapes, ideal for catching stray socialists! :lol:

Happy new year to all you Skyryder's too! (Head fly? Maybe I better ask Mrs fly about that!) :shifty:

No just pssing thru OR. Will be in the truck.
Will PM you a bit closer etc. Going down to the Catlins for a bit of Socialist (fly) fishing. Where's the icons on this new look??