Karma perhaps?

[chanceyy]

Guess this will claim against ACC (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6606952/motorcyclist-killed-after-police-chase/) Article below -

:scratch:

A motorcyclist was killed and his passenger injured after a police chase in Palmerston North last night ended in a high-speed crash.

Police attempted to stop the motorcyclist as he pulled away from traffic lights on Ruahine St at about 11.15pm, said Palmerston North police area commander Pat Handcock.

The motorcyclist accelerated to "very high speeds" and police briefly gave chase before abandoning the pursuit, he said.
"It appears that the police patrol lost contact with the motorcyclist almost immediately due to the heavy acceleration of the motorcycle."

The man lost control of the motorcycle and crashed into a fence on the corner of John F Kennedy Drive and Milson Line, Mr Handcock said.
He died at the scene and his female passenger, who had not been wearing a helmet, was taken to Palmerston North Hospital.

The man had earlier been speeding and the motorcycle was stolen, Mr Handcock said.
The Serious Crash Unit are examining the scene and there may be disruptions to traffic.

Police have spoken to a number of witnesses and are asking for anyone who saw the incident to contact them.
The matter will be referred to the Independent Police Conduct Authority.

The motorcyclist has not yet been identified.

[meteor]

Stolen bike, running from the police, riding like a maniac, crashes, dies... no acc payout, no sympathy... Chick on the back of a stolen bike... no helmet... we are all paying her hospital bill. Still no sympathy tho'

Why do they do it?

[Genie]

that is just so sad on so many levels.....geez

[one fast tl1ooo]

I feel sorry for the guy who owned the bike,,

[Dschubba]

I think the headline was wrong.
He was no motorcyclist.
He was a thief on a stolen motorcycle.
His stupidity has hurt a lot of people.

[chanceyy]

have no sympathy at all either, pretty heavy price to pay but thats what you get when you break the law ..

at least he will not steal anymore bikes, but ACC will pay out towards funeral costs

As for the chick getting on the back with no helmet ...WTF no brain anyhow !!

and she will obviously require plenty of ACC ...

[Nasty]

... but ACC will pay out towards funeral costs

As for the chick getting on the back with no helmet ...WTF no brain anyhow !!

and she will obviously require plenty of ACC ...

ACC will pay out for the funeral costs, they should pay a survivors grant .. and a percentage of his wages to his partner/wife/kids should he be married for a number of years.

[Guided_monkey]

Headline wrong "Motorcyclist dies" should be "Vehicle thief killed".

Also this crash will count towards the motorcycle accident stats even though the rider was probably unlicensed and a criminal.

Not a lot of sympathy......

[Genie]

oh yes..ACC will pay out big time ...it was an accident, albeit an accident that would never have happened if the young man had not stolen a motorcycle.

Does ACC still pay out when a crime is being committed? If I drove drunk and crashed my car....my insurance won't cover me as I am committing a crime or say I'd robbed the local Westpac and crashed, no insurance. therefore why does ACC pay out where crime is concerned.

And yeah, what kind of idiot gets on the back of a stolen bike with no helmet, shit the silly girl. The stupid things girls do with fellas.

[scumdog]

I feel sorry for the guy who owned the bike,,

I feel sorry for the cops who have to do all the paperwork this idjits actions has precipitated......somewhere another pine forest has died because of him.

[Nasty]

oh yes..ACC will pay out big time ...it was an accident, albeit an accident that would never have happened if the young man had not stolen a motorcycle.

Does ACC still pay out when a crime is being committed? If I drove drunk and crashed my car....my insurance won't cover me as I am committing a crime or say I'd robbed the local Westpac and crashed, no insurance. therefore why does ACC pay out where crime is concerned.

And yeah, what kind of idiot gets on the back of a stolen bike with no helmet, shit the silly girl. The stupid things girls do with fellas.

The government is apparently going to try and change the law but at the moment ACC still pays.

[YellowDog]

ACC will pay out for the funeral costs, they should pay a survivors grant .. and a percentage of his wages to his partner/wife/kids should he be married for a number of years.
Sounds like we are all saying that this incident is a clear demonstration that the past/present ACC system is in need of modernisation to address what's actually going on.

I am personally not happy about being tarred with the same brush as these idiots.

[Genestho]

I feel sad for the families left to deal withit. Imagine the phonecall, and what they must be feeling, funeral will be in three days I guess, what a legacy to leave behind. "Merry Xmas"

[Maha]

I feel sorry for the guy who owned the bike,,

In a way yes, lets hope he had insurance.


Headline wrong "Motorcyclist dies" should be "Vehicle thief killed"

Also this crash will count towards the motorcycle accident stats even though the rider was probably unlicensed and a criminal.

Not a lot of sympathy......

All good points, I like the 'shoulda' headline also. :2thumbsup

Why people do dumb shit is beyond me, right on Xmas to, I guess he had family who will now have a rather subdued festive season.

[mikeey01]

Headline wrong "Motorcyclist dies" should be "Vehicle thief killed".

I agree, Telescum gets it's news through an RSS feed by the looks.
It smells very much like a typical NZPA article (the big black hole of bull shit journo's)

I'm sending a wee note off to them. :mad: If it was a farken car the head line would be saying, "Car thief" fuckers.....

Nick Brown Editor editor@nzpa.co.nz
Kevin Norquay kevin.norquay@nzpa.co.nz

[chanceyy]

I feel sorry for the cops who have to do all the paperwork this idjits actions has precipitated......somewhere another pine forest has died because of him.

now that is who I do feel sympathy for, the ones who have to clean up the mess, deliver the news & now be involved in the police conduct authority ..


I feel sad for the families left to deal withit. Imagine the phonecall, and what they must be feeling. "Merry Xmas"

yes I somewhat feel for them too, however he made choices .. and the wrong ones so has paid that very high price ... so did she by getting on the back without gear, did she know the bike was stolen, maybe/maybe not.

[Genestho]

now that is who I do feel sympathy for, the ones who have to clean up the mess, deliver the news & now be involved in the police conduct authority ..



yes I somewhat feel for them too, however he made choices .. and the wrong ones so has paid that very high price ... so did she by getting on the back without gear, did she know the bike was stolen, maybe/maybe not.

Yea I shudder to think what the police et al found. Terrible. An investigation no doubt into the chase.

And yea I agree re: choices, we make our own - absolutely.

But it doesn't negate what the family will face for the next goodness knows how many years.
The ripple affect from these things can get pretty big.

Personally I wouldn't want to assume what the girl did or didn't know. I don't want to make a comment on whether or not she had a helmet, remember Anika's partner was reported to have not been wearing a helmet? But it came off in the crash?

Obviously theiving is not on.

Based on what's reported - They have paid a high price! But in reality neither of them will suffer directly for their downfall.
There will be brain damage if she survives.

The family will ultimately bear the brunt of this, and when they google for info (and I'm sure someone will), this thread will come up, and I don't wish any more hurt upon them.

[Foxzee]

No helmet..WTF.....

Lost for words on all of it!!!!!

[crazyhorse]

Stolen bike

No helmet

Outrunning the police

DUMB DUMB DUMB - yip, karma got him alright. Dumb arse!

I feel sorry for the owner of the bike

[scumdog]

yes I somewhat feel for them too, however he made choices .. and the wrong ones so has paid that very high price ...

Ah yes, the old "It won't happen to ME" mentality, too many on the roads ride/drive like that.:crazy:

Well big news people: it DOES happen to you 'ME's' out there..and not always to the most deserving 'ME'.:(

[gammaguy]

Stolen bike, running from the police, riding like a maniac, crashes, dies... no acc payout, no sympathy... Chick on the back of a stolen bike... no helmet... we are all paying her hospital bill. Still no sympathy tho'

Why do they do it?

because they are stupid.because their parents(if they are around)didnt equip them for the real world.because they were on drugs.because they were unaware of the possible consequences of their actions,due to too much TV and not enough reality.

take your pick

sad.

[Gareth51]

ACC will pay out for the funeral costs, they should pay a survivors grant .. and a percentage of his wages to his partner/wife/kids should he be married for a number of years.

Get struck by lighting and die...nothing...act of God.

The above could be said ..act of the devil...get payout

[ratusratus]

I just hope none of you people were related to him for fuck sake
worrying more about acc than a life......

[Nasty]

I just hope none of you people were related to him for fuck sake
worrying more about acc than a life......

Heres hoping ... its a terrible thing for a family to loose someone ... but to loose someone through stupidity is quite horrific.

[Goblin]

Darwin! :banana:
Gene-O-clean.

[Azi Dahaka]

From what I understand the new thing is acc wont pay out only if it is a serious crime something like 3 years in jail but this may have changed

[Genestho]

Heres hoping ... its a terrible thing for a family to loose someone ... but to loose someone through stupidity is quite horrific.
yep, will be a hard thing to deal with I'd imagine. And imagine having to be the family members having to look after the girl with massive head injuries for the rest of her life...if she survives. Every Xmas tarnished with this memory.

[gammaguy]

I just hope none of you people were related to him for fuck sake
worrying more about acc than a life......

here we go again.

if the GOVT make us pay for others stupidity/bad luck/misfortunes,then we will all feel qualified and entitled to an opinion on how OUR money is spent.

Welcome to NZ,see our awesome blend of capitalism and communism at work

great isnt it?

[Genestho]

From what I understand the new thing is acc wont pay out only if it is a serious crime something like 3 years in jail but this may have changed

2 years and up, and in the case of a survivor, I understand the proposals addressed emergency/rehab, but automatically removing lump sums, and earnings.

[one fast tl1ooo]

In a way yes, lets hope he had insurance.



All good points, I like the 'shoulda' headline also. :2thumbsup

Why people do dumb shit is beyond me, right on Xmas to, I guess he had family who will now have a rather subdued festive season.

Yes lets hope he has...

[Laxi]

I agree they were both freakn idiots, (dont think i'd go as far as to say "got what he deserved") but interesting if you consider it... A lot of the posters here are the same people who have been fighting for ACC to stay a "no fault" ACC system, yet now say because this guy was commiting a crime he dosn't deserve it! a lot of people have been saying well "because we chose to do somthing dangerous, we dont deserve it". Not defending the guy in the slightest (as far as im concerned, its darwins law in motion) but does raise interesting questions

[Katman]

Interesting to note that if it hadn't been mentioned that the bike was stolen, this thread would be swamped with 'RIP brother biker' posts.

:sick:

[scracha]

Cut shit storm of halfwits blaming the cops.

Feel sorry for the bike owner.

[scumdog]

Interesting to note that if it hadn't been mentioned that the bike was stolen this thread would be swamped with 'RIP brother biker' posts.

:sick:

Not if he had done a runner and binned...:oi-grr:

[Pussy]

Feel sorry for the bike owner.
ACC shouldn't be paying a cent in this case

[p.dath]

The government is apparently going to try and change the law but at the moment ACC still pays.

Think of the positive angle. They wont require any future ACC payments ...

[Laxi]

good fucken riddance


hope it wasn't your bike, but the fucker got what was coming. bwahahahahha.

Karma's such a bastard.

1 of the mods has removed similar statements to this from this thread, but heres a couple of quotes from another thread, seems some people round here think a life is valued in the thousands of dollars, sure the guy was a crim but if a diver poaching crayfish drowned doing it, would there be a chorus of "the fucker got what was coming to him"?

[muzz]

We have all made bad choices, but he doesnt deserve to die.
Yes he's a dumb arse, Yes he made bad choices.
Sad thing to happen.
Yes she's a dumb arse, Yes she made bad choices and ACC is there to help patch her up (NO FAULT POLICY). Just hope she learns from her mistakes.

[Mumbles]

Poor Cops - clean up the mess and/or provide first aid, they never get the option to turn away

Parents should never have to bury their kids - NEVER!

Poor bike owner, man thats just got to suck!

[Headbanger]

I just hope none of you people were related to him for fuck sake


I wouldn't want to be related to a shitbag bike thief.

I'm a big fan of bike thief death, Its just a pity he had to hurt someone's bike while improving the gene pool. But hey, Lets see more of it.

[Pegasus]

Poor Cops - clean up the mess and/or provide first aid, they never get the option to turn away

Parents should never have to bury their kids - NEVER!

Poor bike owner, man thats just got to suck!

Ditto. My stomach is doing somersaults just thinking of the family (what if it was yours or my little brother), and all those that will be caught in the ripple effect. What a silly, silly boy.

[ynot slow]

We have all made bad choices, but he doesnt deserve to die.
Yes he's a dumb arse, Yes he made bad choices.
Sad thing to happen.
Yes she's a dumb arse, Yes she made bad choices and ACC is there to help patch her up (NO FAULT POLICY). Just hope she learns from her mistakes.

Very true,the emotive part is he stole a bike,any difference if he stole a tv,stereo and crashed his car,nope.
And how many here have never sped,popped a wheelie,burnout etc.
Remember he will have family and just maybe they are decent folks,hell if he was in Palmy some of us people living here might know him or family.Hell I jumped on the back of a bike in the 80's after a night out totally pissed no lid and a nice winding country road,behind a rider who was a little pissed,yep something I wouldn't do normally and not now but never the less,but spur of moment.
And not sure on the rip/biker down thread stuff,but his name isn't released yet so why was this put up,and yep I read the info on teletext this morning,scary that part usually teletext is today the news is from a week ago.

[MSTRS]

Headline wrong "Motorcyclist dies" should be "Vehicle thief killed".


Typical of the subtle, and not-so-subtle anti-m/c propaganda we are surrounded by. "Vehicle thief..." would have been more appropriate, and would have been the headline if it had been a car involved.
On the subject, I noted in the TV news report about the oranges/coal deliveries in Auckland...that the reader (Peter Williams?) said "the riders...oops, I mean...bikers...blah blah". Same subtle message.

[Sharry]

I am personally not happy about being tarred with the same brush as these idiots.

I personally feel for the families and the bike owner, they will all have a sad xmas becuase of this.

I also do not want to be tarred with the same brush as this as he was a thief not a motorcylclist.

[wbks]

Interesting to note that if it hadn't been mentioned that the bike was stolen, this thread would be swamped with 'RIP brother biker' posts.

:sick:


I also do not want to be tarred with the same brush as this as he was a thief not a motorcylclist.
Not if he was running from the cops, I'm pretty sure most here would be indifferent, and like Sharry said, he was a theif, not one that bikers would call "brother".
C'mon, wouldn't you feel somewhat satisfied if the person who stole your bike wrecked themselves on it, rather than vanishing to part out your bike, never to be seen again?

[Katman]

Not if he was running from the cops, I'm pretty sure most here would be indifferent, and like Sharry said, he was a theif, not one that bikers would call "brother".
C'mon, wouldn't you feel somewhat satisfied if the person who stole your bike wrecked themselves on it, rather than vanishing to part out your bike, never to be seen again?

There have been countless times on here where people have parroted the old "rip my brother biker" bullshit - not knowing whether that biker was a bike thief, a rapist, a wife beater, a child beater, a kiddy fiddler...............

It takes far more than the mere fact that someone rides a motorcycle for me to consider them 'my brother'.

[muzz]

[QUOTE
I also do not want to be tarred with the same brush as this as he was a thief not a motorcylclist.

How do you know he's not a motorcyclist there are some unsavory motorcyclists out there. We (as motorcyclists) come from all walks of life, some are real low lives.

[wbks]

There have been countless times on here where people have parroted the old "rip my brother biker" bullshit - not knowing whether that biker was a bike thief, a rapist, a wife beater, a child beater, a kiddy fiddler...............

It takes far more than just the fact that someone rides a motorcycle for me to consider them 'my brother'. I guess I've Gotta agree. I see no problem with a bit or camaraderie in the biking scene like there is, it's definitely a good thing, but I don't pretend to feel anything for someone who dies and happens to be riding either, certainly not on a "brother" level. Though the fact that this guy was a bike thief for sure changes my outlook from indifferent to positive:yes:

[MSTRS]

How do you know he's not a motorcyclist there are some unsavory motorcyclists out there. We (as motorcyclists) come from all walks of life, some are real low lives.

Perhaps so...but...
Would you describe the driver of a stolen car as just a driver?
Titles may be descriptive of what we do (biker, driver, accountant etc) but they don't define us, and they should at least be accurate in the context of any particular incident.
The rider in this case was a THIEF.

[muzz]

Agreed, It's a generalisation. But he was a motorcyclist, well at least for ten minutes before his crash.

[Owl]

Agreed, It's a generalisation. But he was a motorcyclist, well at least for ten minutes before his crash.

Bollocks! If I stuck a knife into the side of someone's head, would that make me a brain surgeon?

[cave weta]

Bad news Im afraid...


PALMERSTON NORTH

At approximately 11.15pm on Saturday 19 December police in Palmerston North initiated a pursuit of a motorcycle in Milson Line, Palmerston North.

The motorcycle was two up at the time and the female pillion passenger was not wearing a helmet.

Inspector Pat Handcock, Area Commander said, 'Initial inquiries indicate that the police patrol had noted the motorcycle travelling at excessive speed north on Ruahine Street and had pulled in behind the motorcyclist at a red light on the corner of Ruahine Street and Tremaine Avenue. When the light turned green the officer has activated his lights to pull the rider to the side of the road'.

'At that point the motorcyclist has accelerated to very high speeds', Inspector Handcock said.

Inspector Handcock said that it appears that the motorcyclist has lost control of the motorcycle on the corner of John F Kennedy Drive and Milson Line and the motor cycle has come to rest against a residential fence on the north western corner of that intersection. The male rider has died at the scene and the female pillion passenger has been taken to Palmerston North hospital'.

The Serious Crash Unit are at the scene and will complete a thorough scene examination tonight. There will be some disruption to traffic in the area for several hours.

Inspector Handcock said 'It appears that the police patrol lost contact with the motorcyclist almost immediately due to the heavy acceleration of the motorcycle, and the attempt to stop the motorcyclist was momentary. Police have spoken to a number of witnesses and would like anyone else who may have seen the incident to contact the Palmerston North Police'.

Police have not yet identifird the deceased and are making further inquiries to do so.

'We can confirm that the motor cycle is stolen, but can not provide any more detail at this time', Inspector Handcock said.

Over the next 24 hours Police will piece together events leading to the fatal crash and it will be reported to the Independent Police Conduct Authority as part of routine investigation practises.

[Maha]

Bollocks! If I stuck a knife into the side of someone's head, would that make me a brain surgeon?

Pehaps, just not a very good one.....:Oops:

[muzz]

Bollocks! If I stuck a knife into the side of someone's head, would that make me a brain surgeon?

Thats a bullshit statement in itself.
But also are you doing it so save a life or take it.

[Sharry]

How do you know he's not a motorcyclist there are some unsavory motorcyclists out there. We (as motorcyclists) come from all walks of life, some are real low lives.

True, but in this scenario he was firstly a thief. Had this accident happened on his own bike I would then label him a motorcyclist.

[Pixie]

A moment of silence for the deceased.
A yoctosecond should do it

[scumdog]

Agreed, It's a generalisation. But he was a motorcyclist, well at least for ten minutes before his crash.

No, he was a thief on a motorcycle...now an ex-thief.

[NordieBoy]

sure the guy was a crim but if a diver poaching crayfish drowned doing it, would there be a chorus of "the fucker got what was coming to him"?

If he was using stolen diving gear?

[onearmedbandit]

There have been countless times on here where people have parroted the old "rip my brother biker" bullshit - not knowing whether that biker was a bike thief, a rapist, a wife beater, a child beater, a kiddy fiddler...............

It takes far more than the mere fact that someone rides a motorcycle for me to consider them 'my brother'.

100% agree. Just riding a bike doesn't qualify you as a friend, equal or brother.

[Pussy]

100% agree. Just riding a bike doesn't qualify you as a friend, equal or brother.

With you there, too, OAB

[Conquiztador]

Let's all take a step back.

If you were not there or you knew the chap/the owner of the bike, then it is, in my opinion, tricky to know anything re this currently.

The few things we do know:

- A 22 yo chap died riding a bike in PN.
- The pillion, a girl, sustained injuries and is in hospital.
- The police is investigating.

Rest will become clear at a later stage.

[robinm]

Now named http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3179425/Motorcyclist-dies-after-police-chase
Not from Palmerston North.

[wbks]

Let's all take a step back.

If you were not there or you knew the chap/the owner of the bike, then it is, in my opinion, tricky to know anything re this currently.

The few things we do know:

- A 22 yo chap died riding a bike in PN.
- The pillion, a girl, sustained injuries and is in hospital.
- The police is investigating.

Rest will become clear at a later stage.What else is there to report? He stole someones bike and his stupid passenger jumped on the back with a wanker, also wearing no helmet, tried to run from the police, and both got fucked up for it...
EDIT: FUCK! The news just reported it as a motorcyclist (big mistake there) who crashed after doing a runner... No mention of the fact that the prick wasn't a motorcyclist, just a bike theif, and he was on a stolen bike at the time. The wanker couldn't just fuck up his own life, he had to put even more shit on the report just as people are taxing the fuck out of us... Sorry if I'm not sympathetic, conquistador

[Grubber]

There have been countless times on here where people have parroted the old "rip my brother biker" bullshit - not knowing whether that biker was a bike thief, a rapist, a wife beater, a child beater, a kiddy fiddler...............

It takes far more than the mere fact that someone rides a motorcycle for me to consider them 'my brother'.

Ditto! Couldn't agree more.

[Conquiztador]

What else is there to report? He stole someones bike and his stupid passenger jumped on the back with a wanker, also wearing no helmet, tried to run from the police, and both got fucked up for it...
EDIT: FUCK! The news just reported it as a motorcyclist (big mistake there) who crashed after doing a runner... No mention of the fact that the prick wasn't a motorcyclist, just a bike theif, and he was on a stolen bike at the time. The wanker couldn't just fuck up his own life, he had to put even more shit on the report just as people are taxing the fuck out of us... Sorry if I'm not sympathetic, conquistador

Not question of symphaty. Just trying to make the point that on here all and his dog jump in with opinions w/o knowing the facts.

New fact one: He was not from PN.

[caseye]

So now we know that the bike was stolen.
"Mr Handcock said the motorcycle had been stolen".
Quoted directly from the news item that named the guy.
ACC should never have to pay out for this sort of death, it's no accident when you wind throttle to get away from the Police.Remember the bike Was stolen and he did a runner.
The young woman is in a serious condition,Did she know the bike was stolen?
Who cares!. She has survived a terrible experience and in all probability will never hop on the back of a bike again.Lesson learn't.
Should ACC pay for her rehabilitation?.
Sorry should we????
I say No.

[Conquiztador]

Fixed that up for you.

I very much dislike someone changing what I have written and then stating that as a quote from me.

You might be right in what you assume, but you might also be wrong, and would you not look like and idiot then... Ooopsss...no change there.

[Conquiztador]

So now we know that the bike was stolen.
"Mr Handcock said the motorcycle had been stolen".
Quoted directly from the news item that named the guy.
.

Perhaps you are right. But perhaps he had a set of plates on the bike that his mate had lent him as his bike was missing them, and the reason he did do a runner was because his bike was not in the system?

My point is that we just don't know.

[Conquiztador]

Cry me a fucking river, twat.

I see that you have grown up since last time we had a disagreement. How bout you attack my opinion and not me? Or do you have problems understanding the difference?

[Genie]

It makes no difference what any of us say ....A poor mother has lost her son, a father has lost his son.

We've all done bad stuff in our lives, we've all made fuck-ups. This young man fucked up. He was young and had so much to learn, he learns no more.

I hope others of his age may learn from this....

[Hitcher]

that is just so sad on so many levels.....geez

No it isn't. I have little sympathy for anybody who does stupid shit and gets badly injured or worse or whose actions and lack of thought result in others getting badly injured or worse. I feel sympathy for innocent bystanders(TM) who meet with harm. Otherwise I believe that people should take responsibility for their actions.

[Hitcher]

I hope others of his age may learn from this...

Not a chance, based on over 2,000 generations of human evolution.

[caseye]

Perhaps you are right. But perhaps he had a set of plates on the bike that his mate had lent him as his bike was missing them, and the reason he did do a runner was because his bike was not in the system?

My point is that we just don't know.

Quite possible Conquiztador, but not likely and these days the Police are quite pedantic about what they say and When.
My main point really, is that while someone has died and thats never a good thing.if the circumstances are as we've been told, then my/our only real concern about this is should the desperately under funded ACC pay out? My answer would always have been . No. since a long time ago this sort of pandering and squandering is partly why ACC is shafting us STILL!

[Katman]

I see that you have grown up since last time we had a disagreement. How bout you attack my opinion and not me? Or do you have problems understanding the difference?

Sorry, but my bleeding heart has been bled dry.

[wbks]

It makes no difference what any of us say ....A poor mother has lost her son, a father has lost his son.

We've all done bad stuff in our lives, we've all made fuck-ups. This young man fucked up. He was young and had so much to learn, he learns no more.

I hope others of his age may learn from this....So when does someone become a shithead that shouldn't be sympathized with? When it's too late and they've already killed or raped a few? And at which point do you stop saying "we all make fuckups" and see someone as scum? Drink driving killing an entire family is surely a fuckup, but we all make fuckups in life, right?:bash:




My point is that we just don't know.What will it take for you to "know" these facts that have been released by the police? You accept his death as fact but not the fact that he was evading the police and had stolen someones bike?

[Jantar]

...What will it take for you to "know" these facts that have been released by the police? You accept his death as fact but not the fact that he was evading the police and had stolen someones bike?

And not just "someone's" bike, but this one: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=115120

[wbks]

And just "someone's" bike, but this one: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=115120
I assume you mean "not just "someones bike". Bummer for the dude who's bike is no doubt now fucked, but if I was him I'd be much happier with this result than never seeing it again, with the theif quite happy with himself

[Jantar]

I assume you mean "not just "someones bike". Bummer for the dude who's bike is no doubt now fucked, but if I was him I'd be much happier with this result than never seeing it again, with the theif quite happy with himself
Correct, and corrected.

[scumdog]

This man fucked up, he was young and had so much to learn ....

Like how to steal a bike and not crash or get caught by Police???

[jafar]

Like how to steal a bike and not crash or get caught by Police???

He could have been rehabilitated :whocares:Or sent to prison for retraining & might have one day become a lawyer or politician :woohoo:

[wbks]

He could have been rehabilitated :whocares:Or sent to prison for retraining & might have one day become a lawyer or politician :woohoo:
lol yea, that viewpoint has done this country proud, hasn't it:wari:

[Madmax]

was an orange ZX10R 2004-2005 for sure

[jafar]

lol yea, that viewpoint has done this country proud, hasn't it:wari:

It is why we are so well off today:Oops:

[chanceyy]

was an orange ZX10R 2004-2005 for sure

Owner of the bike in this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=115120) (as posted earlier) Bike stolen from Wellington

[Madmax]

Owner of the bike in this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=115120) (as posted earlier) Bike stolen from Wellington

doh
had my black 2004 ZX10R stolen then recoverd in sort
of one piece it has since found a nice new owner,
was gutted when it was stolen, blueprinted motor ETC
went like a jet still miss it

:angry2:

[wbks]

Isn't it funny all the people saying "wish they burn in hell" etc and "they'll get a cushy prison lifestyle"... Even better!

[Elysium]

...but this time doesn't get away.

Well last time it was a speeding Lifan (was it really a Lifan?) and now some guy with a chick on pillion without a helmet decided he didn't like the disco lights of a police car so decided to make a runner. End result is him dead and obviously the pillion in hospital.

Sorry in this has been posted before.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3179425/Motorcyclist-dies-after-police-chase

" Police have named the man killed shortly after he sped away from police on a stolen motorcycle in Palmerston North last night.

Martyn Dillon, 22, of Paraparaumu, died after losing control of the motorcycle at the corner of Milson Line and John F Kennedy Drive, near Palmerston North Airport.

His pillion passenger, a woman who was not wearing a helmet, was in a serious but stable condition at Palmerston North Hospital.

Palmerston North police area commander Pat Handcock said police had pulled in behind the motorcycle on a red light on the corner of Ruahine St and Tremaine Ave after seeing it travelling at excessive speeds.

Mr Handcock said police activated their flashing lights to request Mr Dillon to pull over as the traffic light turned green, at which point Mr Dillon "accelerated to high speeds'' straight through the intersection into Milson Line.

"It appears that the police patrol lost contact with the motorcyclist almost immediately due to the heavy acceleration of the motorcycle.''

He said it appeared police attempts to stop the motorcycle were "momentary''.

Mr Handcock said the motorcycle had been stolen.

Police spokeswoman Kim Perks said the crash happened about 500m from where the motorcycle accelerated away.

The case has been referred to the Independent Police Conduct Authority. "

[Meanie]

Bloody idiot, he paid the ultimate price didnt he, no sympathy from me
WTF is going on around here, first that muppet trying to dodge trains and now this idiot, obviously didnt consider the woman on the back

[Elysium]

Another bad thing is Nick Smith will be rubbing his hands after reading the article even if the bike is stolen or not I'm sure he'll use this as ammo.

[Cheshire Cat]

Good fucking job.

[Cheshire Cat]

It makes no difference what any of us say ....A poor mother has lost her son, a father has lost his son.

We've all done bad stuff in our lives, we've all made fuck-ups. This young man fucked up. He was young and had so much to learn, he learns no more.

I hope others of his age may learn from this....

not just people his age should learn from this. EVERYBODY should. just cause youre 45(for example) doesnt mean youre excused.

[Forest]

Stolen bike?

That's the point when I stop caring about what happens to the rider.

[Bren]

Another bad thing is Nick Smith will be rubbing his hands after reading the article even if the bike is stolen or not I'm sure he'll use this as ammo.

Yup, not only will it be used as a motorcyclist statistic, but also will be used to paint us all as a group of bloody Larrikans...he was probably just a thief who took the opportunity. I am guessing he was not an experienced rider


Stolen bike?

That's the point when I stop caring about what happens to the rider.
Just as well the bastard got killed then...otherwise he would have angry bikers to contend with....and Nick Smith knows how scary they can be

[Conquiztador]

And not just "someone's" bike, but this one: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=115120

And now we know.

I have absolutely no symphaty for a bike thief. None!. They can all be raped in hell daily as far as I am concerned.

My point was always this: On here we make assumptions and jump in boots and all before we have the facts.

[MSTRS]

What will it take for you to "know" these facts that have been released by the police? You accept his death as fact but not the fact that he was evading the police and had stolen someones bike?

The death IS a fact.
The rest is conjecture. He probably was evading the Police. The plate came back to a stolen bike - probably it was the same bike too.
He's dead, so can't be asked what his intent was, as far as accelerating hard. He may not be the one who stole the bike. It is possible that he bought it, not knowing otherwise. The pillion may never recover, or remember, or even know what was going on.
The bike itself may be the same stolen one, or just the plate from it - we might find out in due course.
So - the only known fact is...the rider was killed. And the pillion was stupid enough to get on the back without a helmet.

[Katman]

So - the only known fact is...the rider was killed. And the pillion was stupid enough to get on the back without a helmet.

And they deserve no sympathy.

End of story.

[MSTRS]

And they deserve no sympathy.

End of story.

Correct. At least in this case.
Probably...:msn-wink:

[Hitcher]

On here we make assumptions and jump in boots and all before we have the facts.

Life's too short to wait for all of the relevant information. It's the KB Way.

[Conquiztador]

Life's too short to wait for all of the relevant information. It's the KB Way.

Hit and miss. But at least we said our piece!

[Conquiztador]

Found pic (and 10 whatever)

[sarahtvet]

He is dead for Fxxx sake.

A bike can be replaced (even a Triumph)

I don't think I would be that judgemental if that was my son or nephew being a pratt...

I would say I am shocked by the callousness some people on this site display but sadly I am not

[DIN PELENDA]

He is dead for Fxxx sake.

A bike can be replaced (even a Triumph)

I don't think I would be that judgemental if that was my son or nephew being a pratt...

I would say I am shocked by the callousness some people on this site display but sadly I am not

x 2.......

[Nasty]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3180000/Fleeing-motorcyclist-fastest-thing-ever-seen

Fast bikes without the experience on it are dangerous. :(

[RocKai]

That bike looks Orangy to me.

And this thread is funny, bar the dead guy.

[PrincessBandit]

Obviously it's easier to be hardhearted when it's someone we don't know, most people would change their tune if it turned out to be a relative of theirs (especially a close one).
Having said that if each person who has said "no sympathy" can say "I would have said that even if it was my brother or son or daughter" then they can be quite justified in making the comments they have.

[Owl]

I would say I am shocked by the callousness some people on this site display but sadly I am not

Pot, Kettle are two words that spring to mind!:shutup:

[crazyhorse]

Well, all I can say is.... Karma!

There will be no Merry Christmas for them.

[Fryin Finn]

The kid died doing what he loved most ............theiving
The bike belonged to a friend who will be gutted someone got killed on his bike and killed his bike too

[caseye]

Obviously it's easier to be hardhearted when it's someone we don't know, most people would change their tune if it turned out to be a relative of theirs (especially a close one).
Having said that if each person who has said "no sympathy" can say "I would have said that even if it was my brother or son or daughter" then they can be quite justified in making the comments they have.

I know what you are saying PB.
But seriously It Would Not be One of mine.
We've raised our kids to know Right from bloody Wrong,they would not be on that bike.
It's just my humble opinion but this whole country has gone to Hell in a hand cart because everyone thinks it's someone elses responsibility to raise our kids and instill morals, ethics and the do's and don'ts of daily life.
I've seen this coming and railed against it for many years but I'm only one voice.
So, we've made sure our kids do know right from wrong, they're not perfect by any means but they'd never consider stealing or simply taking something because they didn't own it and wanted one.
Sorry, no ACC for either of em and at least this thief will never make someones elses life a misery again.
Beofre it's said, I do feel pain and sorrow for the family, they may well have treid to make this a good kid and failed, it's not hard here in NZ.No one gives a damn except for themselves.
When was the last time anyone here told a kid off to a standstill for stealing something or pushing a little kid onto the road , or hitting a girl?
Used to happen in my day!
Complete strangers would tear strips off me and my mates for being stupid, then make sure my parents knew about it .
I'd get two wallopings, not asked, "who it was son we'll go stab their bloody tires"!

[PrincessBandit]

I know what you are saying PB.
But seriously It Would Not be One of mine.
.......................

Beofre it's said, I do feel pain and sorrow for the family, they may well have treid to make this a good kid and failed, it's not hard here in NZ.No one gives a damn except for themselves.
When was the last time anyone here told a kid off to a standstill for stealing something or pushing a little kid onto the road , or hitting a girl?
Used to happen in my day!
Complete strangers would tear strips off me and my mates for being stupid, then make sure my parents knew about it .
I'd get two wallopings, not asked, "who it was son we'll go stab their bloody tires"!

Oh, I agree entirely! I could not remotely in my entire lifetime ever contemplate one of ours doing anything like that. And as you have said, for all we know the parents of those involved in that bike crash and death may have done their very best to instill values etc. into their children yet have been dealt this devastating blow.
I myself have said, for example, ACC should not be paid out to people injured while committing criminal acts - and I would stand behind that statement even if it turned out that one of my own children (by some wild stretch of the imagination) ended up in that situation. I wouldn't suddenly change my tune because of who it was.

[Okey Dokey]

Caseye- great post, totally agree.

[crazyhorse]

..............But seriously It Would Not be One of mine.
We've raised our kids to know Right from bloody Wrong,they would not be on that bike.
..................So, we've made sure our kids do know right from wrong, they're not perfect by any means but they'd never consider stealing or simply taking something because they didn't own it and wanted one.


We can teach our children everything..... and what is right or wrong. But they too are individuals, and we cannot in reality say what they would or would not do, despite their upbringing.

I also taught my kids right from wrong, but unfortunately one simple moment of not thinking of the consequences, and taking things into his own hands and confessiing to the police, led my son to get a conviction........ (the other boys would not say anything to the Police and were let off). However, had he thought about it, he would not have taken matters in his own hands, or been so honest to the Police, things would've worked out for him too.

SO I think your comment is a very brave one indeed.

We can only really speak for what we ourselves would not do, we have no control over anyone, despite what we have taught them.

[Bald Eagle]

I know what you are saying PB.
But seriously It Would Not be One of mine.

When was the last time anyone here told a kid off to a standstill for stealing something or pushing a little kid onto the road , or hitting a girl?
Used to happen in my day!
Complete strangers would tear strips off me and my mates for being stupid, then make sure my parents knew about it .
I'd get two wallopings, not asked, "who it was son we'll go stab their bloody tires"!

Absolutely the worlds crying rights without owning responsibility.

I remember those days when all adults and authority figures where treated with respect.

[BMWST?]

you are a hard hearted lot....
he made a bad choice and so did she,but deserved to die....I think not.
That is the sort of thinking that leads to wars,genocide and the like isnt it?

[wbks]

you are a hard hearted lot....
he made a bad choice and so did she,but deserved to die....I think not.
That is the sort of thinking that leads to wars,genocide and the like isnt it?
No. Not at all. But the kind of thinking that says "we all make mistakes he was somebody's son or brother" is the reason that almost every time you hear of someone doing something foul on the news they have just been released on parole not long before. Personal experience speaking on that one and if they all topped themselves before committing major crime the world would be a better place. All of you that feel the need to be a little more "soft hearted" towards him for the simple fact that he was someones relative can get fucked, a bike can be replaced but so can thieving low live pieces of shit like that, who make hard working people's lives difficult. They are actually overstocked with them these days!
If I did something like that I wouldn't think for one second my father would have sympathy for me or expect anyone else to. I'm sure he would grieve like any parent but he would also say something like "he made his own choices and had to deal with them" and if more parents thought like that we would also be better off

[chanceyy]

Having said that if each person who has said "no sympathy" can say "I would have said that even if it was my brother or son or daughter" then they can be quite justified in making the comments they have.

If it was a relative or close friend yes I would still say the same thing .. and I totally agree with Caseye below, I know right from wrong, work hard to get what I have inc my bike. And if he had survived he would have been hit with the wet tissue that is our legal system and would have carried on his ways. Some of the manawatu crowd had seen this guy doing completely dangerous stuff earlier in the day and really its a miracle he only killed himself and not some innocent bystander or worse child

sorry if that seems callous to most ppl, like I said if it was my brother sure I would grieve but he would have brought it on himself.


I know what you are saying PB.
But seriously It Would Not be One of mine.
We've raised our kids to know Right from bloody Wrong,they would not be on that bike.
It's just my humble opinion but this whole country has gone to Hell in a hand cart because everyone thinks it's someone elses responsibility to raise our kids and instill morals, ethics and the do's and don'ts of daily life.
I've seen this coming and railed against it for many years but I'm only one voice.
So, we've made sure our kids do know right from wrong, they're not perfect by any means but they'd never consider stealing or simply taking something because they didn't own it and wanted one.
Sorry, no ACC for either of em and at least this thief will never make someones elses life a misery again.
Beofre it's said, I do feel pain and sorrow for the family, they may well have treid to make this a good kid and failed, it's not hard here in NZ.No one gives a damn except for themselves.
When was the last time anyone here told a kid off to a standstill for stealing something or pushing a little kid onto the road , or hitting a girl?
Used to happen in my day!
Complete strangers would tear strips off me and my mates for being stupid, then make sure my parents knew about it .
I'd get two wallopings, not asked, "who it was son we'll go stab their bloody tires"!

self responsibility and consequences are not things taught anymore ... unfortunately .. lets blame everyone else ..

[Mikkel]

Found pic (and 10 whatever)

That'll buff right out!


you are a hard hearted lot....
he made a bad choice and so did she,but deserved to die....I think not.
That is the sort of thinking that leads to wars,genocide and the like isnt it?

We are all going to die sooner or later, do we deserve that? If you through your actions do your utmost to speed the process along I can't see why anyone should begrudge your choice, nor can I see why anyone should feel bad about you reaping what you've sown.

Sympathy. For the family. For the friends. Yes. For the pillion? I don't know.

I would dare to assume that the operator knew he was on a stolen bike - or breaking more than just petty rules - in order for him to try a runner. Especially since it sounds like the police would have had a very easy time reading his license plate.

All of that aside. Anyone who takes a helmet-less pillion along for a runner is totally bereft of all sense of responsibility.

[sarahtvet]

x 2.......

:sunny:


Obviously it's easier to be hardhearted when it's someone we don't know....... brother or son or daughter" then they can be quite justified in making the comments they have.
totally agree


Pot, Kettle are two words that spring to mind!:shutup:

Nice of you to have a dig about something you never bothered to get both sides of - supports my comment really, thanks. Lets see what the future holds hey :lol:


I know what you are saying PB.
But seriously It Would Not be One of mine.
I truly hope it isn't ever but nice kids do stupid and bad things sometimes and sometimes they get lucky and othertimes they get dead



No one gives a damn except for themselves.
When was the last time anyone here told a kid off to a standstill for stealing something or pushing a little kid onto the road , or hitting a girl?
Used to happen in my day!

Yep but in your day people were encouraged to be honest if they screwed up and were supported to sort it out. Now society prefers to sweep anything ugly under the carpet and hope it will go away. Nobody wants to deal with it so it festers and destroys peoples lives.

There are those who give a damn and have good moral values so lets encourage and support them whenever we can and try an be like them, kids imitate what they see.

[imdying]

Fuck the family, they should have put more effort into raising a worthwhile member of society instead of a piece of shit who steals other peoples hard earned possessions. Let them chew on that a while. If this was always the penalty for stealing bikes, I know I'd be happier about parking it in town whilst doing my Christmas shopping.

[Big Dog]

Perhaps we should be applying an ACC charge to anyone convicted of crime to cover the costs of their misdeads.
Or perhaps ACC should step up and say no matter how accidental the death or injury if it was of an offender in the commital of the crime it is not covered.

Obviously both could not happen because as soon as you levy a group they are entitled at no fault. But, step up ACC.

[Big Dog]

Fuck the family, they should have put more effort into raising a worthwhile member of society instead of a piece of shit who steals other peoples hard earned possessions. Let them chew on that a while. If this was always the penalty for stealing bikes, I know I'd be happier about parking it in town whilst doing my Christmas shopping.
Before the invention of the internal combustion engine stealing a mans ride was a capital offence.

If you were lucky it was the law that strung you up.

Are we now more humane or and just.
Or just soft from surrounding ourselves with all our time saving devices we worked so long an hard to aquire(sp?)?

[Juzz976]

Hey its $92,000 a year us tax payers wont have to cough up for his prison upkeep.

Natural Selection at work here me thinks

[Horse]

Found pic (and 10 whatever)

I'm fairly sure that technically speaking, that's a video still frame. And an extremely well-shot one in my opinion. :)

[Big Dog]

you are a hard hearted lot....
he made a bad choice and so did she,but deserved to die....I think not.
That is the sort of thinking that leads to wars,genocide and the like isnt it?

Not really. This is the sort of thinking that is an instant gut reaction to what we percieve as a series of violations of our own moral codes as difined by the people we have been surrounded by since birth, the education by our parents and other elders and the moral sentiment of the people whose presence we are currently in.

Historically as people have had more freedom to express this kind of dissatisfaction there has been less violence that is reported with greater enthusiasm.

In countries where people are not free to feel this way and express that their governmnents tend to cover up mass murders, encourage the use of torture in police interviews and other such atrocities in the comfort of the knowlege that they will not be themselves judged.

In countries where freedom of speech is promoted no one ever does anyting of significance for fear the people will lash out.

The one noteable exception is America with its long line of democraticaly elected dictators. The big difference being that there is one person with the final say over the actions of an entire country and its armies.

But I digress.

No we are not heatless, veinal creatures celebrating the morbid and horrible end of a miscreant. We are human beings that need to feel a real reaction to the injustice that sees criminals having the same rights and protections as hones citizens.

[imdying]

Before the invention of the internal combustion engine stealing a mans ride was a capital offence.

If you were lucky it was the law that strung you up.

Are we now more humane or and just.
Or just soft from surrounding ourselves with all our time saving devices we worked so long an hard to aquire(sp?)?I'd be all for being 'more humane', if it worked.

[Mikkel]

I'd be all for being 'more humane', if it worked.

There's nothing inhumane about hanging, when done properly.

It's quiet, quick and efficient. Hell, it's even sustainable - you can reuse the rope. Seen the movie Pierrepoint?

[imdying]

There's nothing inhumane about hanging, when done properly.

It's quiet, quick and efficient. Hell, it's even sustainable - you can reuse the rope. Seen the movie Pierrepoint?Actually, I have a documentary on the 'best' execution if you're interested. Hanging isn't too good, doesn't always work, but not too bad all in all. Hypoxia via inhaling nitrogen is the win if you want 'humane'.

[Mikkel]

Actually, I have a documentary on the 'best' execution if you're interested. Hanging isn't too good, doesn't always work, but not too bad all in all. Hypoxia via inhaling nitrogen is the win if you want 'humane'.

Nitrogen? You don't mean nitrous oxide? Nitrogen doesn't bind to haemoglobin, nitrous oxide, and carbon monoxide too, binds more readily than oxygen.

Freezing to death should apparently be quite pleasant. You'll start feeling warm and then sleepy...

[Big Dog]

Actually, I have a documentary on the 'best' execution if you're interested. Hanging isn't too good, doesn't always work, but not too bad all in all. Hypoxia via inhaling nitrogen is the win if you want 'humane'.

Correct but hanging was also a good visual deterrent.

Sure there was still a lot of wild men who didn't care, But how many people are currnently housed in supermax around the world now because we don't have deterrent punnishments?

[imdying]

Nitrogen? You don't mean nitrous oxide? Nitrogen doesn't bind to haemoglobin, nitrous oxide, and carbon monoxide too, binds more readily than oxygen.Yeah, pretty sure it was nitrogen... there's a 90kg bottle in the van... :D I can get you a copy if you like.


Correct but hanging was also a good visual deterrent.Indeed. One of the things mentioned in the film was that what one person considers to be an ideal execution method (i.e. painless) was not was another considers ideal. The electrocution method is pretty nasty, it gets my vote for kiddy fiddlers and bike thieves :bye:

[86GSXR]

Hmmmm, that's the second fatal accident within 1000m from my place. Just read the kid stole the bike from Wellington and had been at a party shortly beforehand so possibly under the influence. I feel sorry for them both (and for the bike owner) but, dumb is dumb.

[Tank]

I know that this is a bike forum - and as such its cool to say bad things when something like this happens.

But - at the end of the day - a bike is just a thing, a toy, something to get from a to b. Most people have insurance - and even if they dont - its just money and it can be replaced.

The idiot is a Darwin winner for sure - but people should not get any form of ghoolish pleasure from his dealth just bacause it was a stolen bike he was on.

I have little to no sympathy for the idiot - but I'm happy to say I get no joy from his passing.

[scumdog]

you are a hard hearted lot....
he made a bad choice and so did she,but deserved to die....I think not.
That is the sort of thinking that leads to wars,genocide and the like isnt it?

Maybe he didn't DESERVE to die - but he died anyway.

And a lot of us have little sympathy for him.

For his family yes, but not him.

[Big Dog]

Maybe he didn't DESERVE to die - but he died anyway.

And a lot of us have little sympathy for him.

For his family yes, but not him.

It's not like I have no sympathy for him. I just feel that he has chosen his path and now he has the result of that choice.

A bit like ordering at a restaurant. You make your choice and you eat what arrives.
You can't send it back becasue you don't like it.

He who had his bike stolen should get his money back because that is not what he ordered.

I would not call it just deserts, just the path he chose.
Just deserts would be if he had his day in court and actually had to pay for his crimes instead of dying a horrid death and leaving a maimed survivor behind.

I feel sadness that the unnamed girl will never get her life back. Even if she lives her life will not be the same.
I feel sadness that he has not had to pay for his crime.
I feel sadness that another of our youth has died without becoming all he could have been.
I feel sadness that he made a series of bad decisions.
I feel sadness that they will count in ACC stats.
I feel sadness that we have still not evolved as a species.

I feel no sadness that someone has died in the commision of a crime, as a result of his own actions and by his own hand.
Every man, woman or child who "does a runner" knows they may die or kill someone in their attempt to flee and has whieghted the risk against the reward and gone for it.

I feel a rage that while he chose to run, and died in the commision of a crime, as a result of his own actions and by his own hand the female probably had no such choice from the moment he hit the go switch. Her only fault lays in a poor choice driver and failing to wear basic safety gear.

[Cheshire Cat]

I think I'm on Genies ignor list LOL :shutup::rockon:

[MSTRS]

I feel sadness that another of our youth has died without becoming all he could have been.


I wonder about this one...
He was well on his way to - who knows - maybe a lot of potential victims ... won't be.

[sinned]

I wonder about this one...
He was well on his way to - who knows - maybe a lot of potential victims ... won't be.
I wonder too and wait to hear if any criminal record exists leading up to this runner.

Theft, speeding, being a hoon etc are at a lower level than risking a pillion's and other lives while doing a runner from the cops.

[Big Dog]

I wonder about this one...
He was well on his way to - who knows - maybe a lot of potential victims ... won't be.

Or maybe he was acting out for a short time and would later go on to be a life changer.
A father
A husband
A leader

We will never know which side of the coin he would come down on.

I am not innocent. But I am not all bad either.

[Mikkel]

...
A leader
...

Fucking well hope not...

Given his apparent lack of responsibility and gross disregard for other people's safety.

...just saying. After all, we got plenty of leaders like that as it is.

[PrincessBandit]

I think I'm on Genies ignor list LOL :shutup::rockon:

You?? On someone's ignore list??? Never!! lol

But then I'm on 2 ppls I/L so there ya go!! hehehehe

[Big Dog]

Fucking well hope not...

Given his apparent lack of responsibility and gross disregard for other people's safety.

...just saying. After all, we got plenty of leaders like that as it is.

Had he gotten away... there is the possibility this could have been his epiphany that put him right. He did not.

[awayatc]

yeah.....
and if my mum would have had a dick, she'd be my dad...
but she didn't,
so she isn't

[Genie]

I think I'm on Genies ignor list LOL :shutup::rockon:

What makes you write that? I can assure you, you're not on any list