A positive twist on exposing one's goolies

[Rainbow Wizard]

There is a strong case for giving men the right to access a national prostate-screening programme. Since the Labour Party feminists can be expected to energetically oppose and undermine such a proposal, Act have taken the initiative by investigating the level of support for the idea in the community by starting a petition calling for the introduction of a national screening programme for prostate cancer.

If you support the idea you can sign the electronic petition at www.act.org.nz/prostate

Now please don't set your sights on any political aspect of this petition, understand this is genuinely a way for you to have your say. Granted it may go nowhere but I believe we owe it to ourselves to give this our thumbs-up. Logon, sign on OK? Dont be a :whocares:

[Hitcher]

Prostate testing doesn't, in my experience, involve a "thumbs up". It involves a rubber-clad indexfinger up. And some wiggling. I have resolved from this experience that I am not ghey...

[Skyryder]

There is a strong case for giving men the right to access a national prostate-screening programme. Since the Labour Party feminists can be expected to energetically oppose and undermine such a proposal, Act have taken the initiative by investigating the level of support for the idea in the community by starting a petition calling for the introduction of a national screening programme for prostate cancer.

If you support the idea you can sign the electronic petition at www.act.org.nz/prostate

Now please don't set your sights on any political aspect of this petition, understand this is genuinely a way for you to have your say. Granted it may go nowhere but I believe we owe it to ourselves to give this our thumbs-up. Logon, sign on OK? Dont be a :whocares:

It seems that you have already made your political statement by claiming that the 'Labour Party feminists can be expected to undermine such a proposal." As someone who has had their prostate removed I can assure you that I am all for a national screening programme. However given ACT's user pay philosophy I am naturally suspicious of their motives. I for one will not be sighning.


Skyryder

[Rainbow Wizard]

I am all for a national screening programme. However given ACT's user pay philosophy I am naturally suspicious of their motives. I for one will not be sighning.Skyryder
I mean, I hear what your saying but how can you be "all for" and not endorse the petition with your name?

Sorry to hear you were caught too late my friend.

[John]

Thanks for that I wish it was sooner then my dad mightent have died under such circumstances, cant say I'm keen on the bunging of the hole that shouldnt be bunged though :lol:

edit: Cant say I'm one for any political party, they havnt impressed me since I gained a policitcal mind, but if they actually do something that may help out the populous I will be alittle more attentive.:yes:

[Rainbow Wizard]

Thanks for that I wish it was sooner then my dad mightent have died under such circumstances. Cant say I'm one for any political party, they (ACT) havnt impressed me since I gained a policitcal mind, but if they actually do something that may help out the populous I will be alittle more attentive.:yes:

Thank you for your support of my petition calling for a national prostate cancer screening programme for men. While the response to the idea has been very encouraging, the idea has not been promoted widely enough. Accordingly, I would like to enlist your help in seeking out support on a wider scale.

If you are able to ask people you know to check out the issue with a view to supporting the petition that would be great. If you want hard copies of the petition, they are available through the www.pcfreenz.co.nz <http://www.pcfreenz.co.nz> website. I will be writing to all Greypower organisations to promote the petition, but if you have contacts in other groups in your community that may also be interested in circulating it, that would be great.

Thanks so much for your help - if we get large numbers of people clamouring for change, then our battle will be so much easier!

Kindest regards

Muriel Newman

[James Deuce]

IMO this is long overdue. Prostate cancer and prostate cancer screening is easily as big a health issue as Breast cancer and Cervical cancer, but due to the supposed indignity of the exam (digital per rectal exam) it's all hush hush. The end result of prostate cancer can involve a great deal more indignity than that, depending on how you feel about having ALL your bits removed.

Even if Muriel Newman makes your under carriage spontaneously retract, as a male health issue it is absolutely top priority. Sign it. Rodney is obviously looking for an election issue, so why not as us blokes can only benefit from this?

[Odin]

And while there the partition for the depriciation of rental properties should be signed as well
http://www.act.org.nz/action/campaigns/depreciation/index.html :yes:

[bear]

I'm all for not discriminating against the majority, and see the breast cancer screening programme etc. as inequality as is the Ministry of Women's Affairs (or whatever is is called these days), because there are no such designated mediums for fellas. Now, at one stage there may have been a need for it to give exposure, but this now needs some balancing in this overally PC world (NZ).

Just my thought.

[TonyB]

My understanding is that more men die per year from prostate cancer alone than women from breast cancer and cervical cancer combined. Sign it.

[Skyryder]

Since the Labour Party feminists can be expected to energetically oppose and undermine such a proposal,
Now please don't set your sights on any political aspect of this petition,

Here's the reason. You have made a political statement and then gone on to say that this petion should not be seen as politically motivated.

Sounds very much like ACT. Sure we will get a screening programme that's free but you're gonna hav'ta pay to get ya self fixed up. Now if they committed themselves to fully funded public health system I might have another attitude but when I think of what Rodger Douglas and his freebooters did to this country I very much doubt it.


Skyryder

[Pixie]

IMO this is long overdue. Prostate cancer and prostate cancer screening is easily as big a health issue as Breast cancer and Cervical cancer, but due to the supposed indignity of the exam (digital per rectal exam) it's all hush hush. The end result of prostate cancer can involve a great deal more indignity than that, depending on how you feel about having ALL your bits removed.

Even if Muriel Newman makes your under carriage spontaneously retract, as a male health issue it is absolutely top priority. Sign it. Rodney is obviously looking for an election issue, so why not as us blokes can only benefit from this?
Isn't a Pap smear an indignity?

[James Deuce]

Isn't a Pap smear an indignity?

You're not with me are you? :)

That's my point. Women have been both conditioned and provided with the necessary social and institutional support to cope with both having breasts squashed flat to have a mammogram, and the whole PAP smear thing.

Blokes on the other hand accept the indignity of a digital prostate exam with quiet shame a bit of sniggering down at the pub. Rather than a necessary health procedure, prostate exams have an aura of "dirty little secret" about them. Billy Connolly does an excellent job of mocking that attitude and is quite open (no pun intended) about his own experiences with "male health issues."

A screening programme provides a level of official sanction I guess, and would certainly make it easier for me to cope with the exam if every other bastard had to do it too.

[Virago]

.........Now please don't set your sights on any political aspect of this petition, understand this is genuinely a way for you to have your say.
Bollocks!!!!!

Yet another devious ACT ploy to get unsuspecting voters on board.

ACT policy means you have to pay for your own health care! And they have the cheek to use an issue like this to convince the average Joe Bloggs that they actually give a toss!

[Rainbow Wizard]

Bollocks!!!!!

Yet another devious ACT ploy to get unsuspecting voters on board.

ACT policy means you have to pay for your own health care! And they have the cheek to use an issue like this to convince the average Joe Bloggs that they actually give a toss!
Well this whole thread starts with a reference to bollocks so we who support this petition shouldn't be offended by your first word. And how can an openly publicised petition be devious? As for the average Joe Bloggs and "toss" giving, surely the ongoing blatant ripoff of the general public by politicians that are largely elected by the average Jo Bloggs (M&F) of this world is an indicator that we get the government we deserve. I don't deserve the level of taxation I am submitted to compared to the level of services I am entitled to make use of, but I have no real choice, barely even at election time. Signing a petition however IS my choice, and if I believe in the cause I will sign, regardless of who or what organisation is promoting it. Why? Because the petition is a legal document, the intention or mission statement of any petition must have that clearly stated for the signature to mean anything.

Your comment seems driven from considering that ACT will become the government, or at least a significant driving force in it. I ask you, at 2% or whatever they currently poll, is your fear and criticism justifiable?

I am prepared to stand up for issues I believe in, and unrestricted access to care in the interests of preventative ill health is one of them.

No matter how pointed any arguement or point of view is there is always a much bigger picture that will get ignored by those incapable of a broader understanding.

[Ms Piggy]

Speaking from the point of view of a "Labour Party feminists" :Punk: I think it's really an important issue but...I HATE everything the Act party stands for. I also believe part of the reason that, tragically, many more men die of prostrate cancer then women of breast & cervical cancer is that men are more prone to not go to the Doctor until something is really, really bad, of course in saying that death stats for women being lower could be partly b/c breast & cervical cancer issues are promoted far more widely in the community. Although I do agree that it seems very unfair that women get our bits looked at for free (however painful & embarrassing it might be sometimes) and men don't...I don't want to appear to support the Act party and definitely NOT Muriel 'I'm a success so every solo parent should be exactly like me' Newman I think I'll sign b/c it's important. :yes:

[Hitcher]

I HATE everything the Act party stands for.
Such as small government, lower taxes and the right of the individual to choose?

[James Deuce]

Speaking from the point of view of a "Labour Party feminists" :Punk: I think it's really an important issue but...I HATE everything the Act party stands for. I also believe part of the reason that, tragically, many more men die of prostrate cancer then women of breast & cervical cancer is that men are more prone to not go to the Doctor until something is really, really bad, of course in saying that death stats for women being lower could be partly b/c breast & cervical cancer issues are promoted far more widely in the community. Although I do agree that it seems very unfair that women get our bits looked at for free (however painful & embarrassing it might be sometimes) and men don't...I don't want to appear to support the Act party and definitely NOT Muriel 'I'm a success so every solo parent should be exactly like me' Newman I think I'll sign b/c it's important. :yes:

How is Helen Clark's desire to get more women into the workforce at the expense of the long term emotional health of their children any different to Muriel Newman's views on women in the workplace?

[thehollowmen]

aw damn I've got enough work with the cervicals to start doing more FNAs and prostate biopsies / chippings ... I'll never get home at night.

On the other hand, this is needed, too many people die from prostate cancer. The PSA is a good help but it isn't that useful until you're in trouble.

*ponders job security*

[Jamezo]

ah, the tender sight of a young ACT party tirade in its natural habitat...

it's a good idea though, suprised it isn't instituted already. maybe a chicken-and-egg problem where it wouldn't be recieved well due to the attached stigma etc.

we need the ACT party around to keep everyone else honest, and shit stir when they feel like it. the fact they actually appeal to some isn't hard to see. how can "small government, lower taxes and the right of the individual to choose" ever be a bad thing?

tradgedy that such nice rhetoric, when translated into the running (or lack thereof, as the case may be) of a modern society is a recipe for more or less an 'every man for himself' rat race to oblivion.

most that study free-market-low-government-no-rules policy conclude that a society that was sufficiently motivated to install such a form of government would implode apon itself in approximately 0.16549 seconds (give or take). and if it didn't? what on earth do you think is going to fill the power vacuum? I believe it starts with 'C' and ends with 'orporate Interests'

political posting is fun fun fun for the whole family!

[Hitcher]

Anarchy has much to commend it. At $500,000 per MP per year, just look at the costs we'd save on political representation for a starter...

Or how about "no representation without taxation". If beneficiaries didn't get to vote, then that should stop governments getting elected on the basis of giving more money to beneficiaries...

[Virago]

Anarchy has much to commend it. At $500,000 per MP per year, just look at the costs we'd save on political representation for a starter...

Or how about "no representation without taxation". If beneficiaries didn't get to vote, then that should stop governments getting elected on the basis of giving more money to beneficiaries...
Or let's go the whole hog, and give voters proportional voting based on bank balance......

No need to bash the beneficiaries now, wait until the after the election and then slam them.

Jenny Shipley

[Jamezo]

Anarchy has much to commend it. At $500,000 per MP per year, just look at the costs we'd save on political representation for a starter...

Or how about "no representation without taxation". If beneficiaries didn't get to vote, then that should stop governments getting elected on the basis of giving more money to beneficiaries...

NRWT intruiges me. though I was under the impression that NZ beneficiaries did not exactly get an inordinate amount. bar their obviously skewed attitude towards social welfare, on reflection I don't think their say on the running of this country on other matters is any less valid.

I'm more tantalised by the prospects of socialist anarchism (anarchism in the older, somewhat forgotten sense of the term, which has come to be confused with anarchy)

[John]

Lets all drink vodka, become commies and live happy?

[Virago]

Lets all drink vodka, become commies and live happy?
Two out of three aint bad.....

[Ms Piggy]

How is Helen Clark's desire to get more women into the workforce at the expense of the long term emotional health of their children any different to Muriel Newman's views on women in the workplace?
It's not. I think it sux.

[Ms Piggy]

Such as small government, lower taxes and the right of the individual to choose?
Just their neo-liberal ideologies.

[James Deuce]

It's not. I think it sux.
Phew - I hate taking an opposing POV to you because I like you, you lefty socialist you.

[ManDownUnder]

well hjere's an interesting perspective for you - how about we take the ISSUE and focus on IT?

Q - who can best promote this issue such that something gets done? I think we all agree it's worthy of attention?

Q2 - how do we push that button?

At the mome t ACT has made a channel available (upon which they can do some grandstanding etc of course).

If that's not a mechanism that's acceptable to us - where is one that is.

I think we could have a lot of fun bitching and moaning about various political ideologies (it's been a while for me... but I'd really like to get back into that debate)... but when it's time to actually do something about it, reducing this thread to one about intent, ideology and the nature and state of government isn't going to help a whole lot.

As Nike says - JUST DO IT.

Who do we talk to, to raise this effectively?

[edit] there is of course an option by which we can resolve our political differences, and promote the common health issue... raise it with the health minister of ALL the parties.

None of them has the "advantage" then and the message starts coming from all directions... I don't see a downside to that!

MDU

[Hitcher]

Just their neo-liberal ideologies.
Any in particular or is this more of an all-embracing hatred?

[Ms Piggy]

Any in particular or is this more of an all-embracing hatred?
All of them, I don't like neo-liberal ideologies at all :no: Sorry Mr H, too busy to supply a thoughtful and clever answer at present.

[Rainbow Wizard]

well hjere's an interesting perspective for you - how about we take the ISSUE and focus on IT?

Q - who can best promote this issue such that something gets done? I think we all agree it's worthy of attention?

Q2 - how do we push that button?

At the mome t ACT has made a channel available (upon which they can do some grandstanding etc of course).

If that's not a mechanism that's acceptable to us - where is one that is.

[edit] there is of course an option by which we can resolve our political differences, and promote the common health issue... raise it with the health minister of ALL the parties.

None of them has the "advantage" then and the message starts coming from all directions... I don't see a downside to that!
Because the option for a certain number of us is prostate cancer left undiagnosed for far too long, and I don't want to be one of that crew. Get out there you lot, and do it. I gave you the link to the petition, do I now have to write a letter of attention so that you damn poorly motivated atrocious spellers can cut and past it into word then put your own monika on it and send it (postage free) to Members of Parliament?

Rhetorical question.

Shall we do it together Hitcher and MDU? Agree on a paragraph by paragraph structure so the only partially unmotivated ones can mix and match for that "personal touch"?

[Hitcher]

All of them, I don't like neo-liberal ideologies at all :no: Sorry Mr H, too busy to supply a thoughtful and clever answer at present.
No rush. Whenever you have a free moment will be just fine...

[Hitcher]

Because the option for a certain number of us is prostate cancer left undiagnosed for far too long, and I don't want to be one of that crew. Get out there you lot, and do it. I gave you the link to the petition, do I now have to write a letter of attention so that you damn poorly motivated atrocious spellers can cut and past it into word then put your own monika on it and send it (postage free) to Members of Parliament?

Rhetorical question.

Shall we do it together Hitcher and MDU? Agree on a paragraph by paragraph structure so the only partially unmotivated ones can mix and match for that "personal touch"?
A big part of the problem is boys being way too staunch to go to the doctor. I'm probably as guilty as any on that count. Not helped by the fact that when I do go, I get a rubber-clad finger stuffed up my rectal sphincter and chastened about things like my girth, weight, blood pressure and cholesterol levels. And what should my blood pressure be after I've being probed in my most private of places? And then they expect ME to pay. Harumph!!

Would "free" prostate screening, such as the breast screening programme help? I think not. Unless there was some other incentive, like a free six-pack of ale, or a Lions test ticket, or a weekend with a Mean Streak, or Sprint ST. Or they could do it while I was watching Sky Sport...

We're doomed to die moaning about how unfair it all is that we have men's problems that aren't acknowledged or supported by The Gummint, while women who care about their health and wellbeing get their bits looked at for free. There's no justice!

[Rainbow Wizard]

We're doomed to die moaning about how unfair it all is that we have men's problems that aren't acknowledged or supported by The Gummint, while women who care about their health and wellbeing get their bits looked at for free. There's no justice!
You're right mate, no justice at all. Is that a new hat boy?

[Hitcher]

You're right mate, no justice at all. Is that a new hat boy?
You like??

[idb]

how about "no representation without taxation". If beneficiaries didn't get to vote, then that should stop governments getting elected on the basis of giving more money to beneficiaries...
I'm intrigued.
I would very much like to know more about how this would work.
Also, some advise on who to vote for so that it might happen would be most appreciated.

[Hitcher]

I'm intrigued.
I would very much like to know more about how this would work.
Also, some advise on who to vote for so that it might happen would be most appreciated.
Simple. Government benefits would be tax free. Inland Revenue would keep a record of taxpaying individuals aged 18 years of age and over.

Who to vote for? Start your own political party!

[idb]

Simple. Government benefits would be tax free. Inland Revenue would keep a record of taxpaying individuals aged 18 years of age and over.

Who to vote for? Start your own political party!
Can't say I'm happy with that.
Surely there's some way that they can pay taxes and still be denied voting rights.

Also starting my own political party is not an option due to a short attention span and other stuff.
I'm in possession of one whole vote and now that you've sorted Waiheke out (well done by the way) and had a good rest surely you can distill the options down for me?
I don't want to waste that precious vote!!!

[Rainbow Wizard]

:D

.....Can't say I'm happy with that. Surely there's some way that they can pay taxes and still be denied voting rights................. I'm in possession of one whole vote ......I don't want to waste that precious vote!!!
That's not a whole vote idb, it's a HOLE vote, and it's only the queer fellas who make it a Pole Volte. SHOCKING :grouphug:

[ManDownUnder]

Let's not let Politics get in the way of the facts..

I downloaded the form... and it says
"
To the House of Representatives<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The petition of Dr Muriel Newman and others respectfully requests:<o:p></o:p>

“I support Dr Muriel Newman MP’s proposal to introduce a national prostate cancer screening programme for men”."

Now... I don't have a problem signing it because there is nothing wrong with it... let's pick it to bits...

1) Whose petitiion is it? Dr Muriel Newman... ok - that's a fact
2) Do you support it? If you're for a national prostate cancer screening programme... that'd be a "yes" (and if not... I'd love to hear why not... genuinely interested that is...)

Yes ACT will make some ghround on this... and SO THEY SHOULD. No other bastard seems to be doing it - or did I miss something?

If you're feeling mischevious - get a copy of the petition and post it to your MP - find out what they're dsoing about it - or perhaps their party... might be the wake up call they need...

MDU

[Rainbow Wizard]

Let's not let Politics get in the way of the facts..
I downloaded the form... and it says "To the House of Representatives". The petition of Dr Muriel Newman and others respectfully requests “I support Dr Muriel Newman MP’s proposal to introduce a national prostate cancer screening programme for men”......Yes ACT will make some ghround on this... and SO THEY SHOULD. No other bastard seems to be doing it - or did I miss something? .... - get a copy of the petition and post it to your MP - find out what they're dsoing about it - or perhaps their party... might be the wake up call they need.....
Good encouragement MDU, here's an article of hope from today's Herald:
=[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10127285]

Don't rely on petrol for your only motivation you lot. :no:

[SPman]

Who needs a program?
If you value your health, get regular friggin checkups - including prostate, like me and me mates do.
If you have an image problem about a finger up the bum - tough!
Die! Horribly!
Too many people out there now anyway
Natural de-selection of those with an ego/image problem, I say!