New pants please!

[GOONR]

Ok, I stuffed up the other day. Didn't hit anything but it was damn close. Heading north over the harbour bridge on the clip on. Moderate traffic and I'm in the left hand lane watching about 4-6 cars in front of me. I glanced in my mirror and noticed a car slightly behind me in the right hand lane indicating left, there is no gap for him to get in to so I assume he's heading for the 'gap' that is me. keep on glancing in the mirror then do a head check cause I can't see him anymore... the next thing is I'm looking forward again and everything in front has almost stopped. I hit the brakes hard, the 4x4 behind me hits the brakes hard. There is probably less than a metre in between me and the car in front and I would guess a bit less between me and the car behind.

Now, I know I didn't have an exit route planned, number one ferk up. I let the car behind me get way too close, number two ferk up. I think that I must have been giving the car to the right too much of a priority but at the time he seemed to be my biggest threat.

What should I have done, apart from having an exit route. I don't want the "Katman" explanation of we are all fuckwits and get what we deserve. I want to learn from this and know how to avoid this kind of situation in the future.

'PS Katman' I'm a learner , I'm on my L plate and it is always on the back of the bike. I'm after advice not crap criticism

[Katman]

What should I have done, apart from having an exit route. I don't want the "Katman" explanation of we are all fuckwits and get what we deserve. I want to learn from this and know how to avoid this kind of situation in the future.

'PS Katman' I'm a learner , I'm on my L plate and it is always on the back of the bike. I'm after advice not crap criticism

If that's all you've manged to glean from anything I've posted, my advice is.....improve.

[GOONR]

If that's all you've manged to glean from anything I've posted, my advice is.....improve.

Like I said, if you have no constructive input then please stay quiet. Thank you!

[Katman]

Like I said, if you have no constructive input then please stay quiet. Thank you!

Fuck, who are you? The Polite Nazi?

[gwigs]

Glad your ok Goonr .....you cant plan for everything...sometimes it all happens too quick .And Katman Fuck Off you Homo..Waiting behind his keyboard ready to pounce, what a joke..

[paddy]

Just some thoughts in no particular order - I'm a relatively new rider as well; however, I have a lot of advanced driver training under my belt from a former life.

* It was good to notice the hazard behind and to your right; however, don't forget to keep scanning. Don't fixate on one hazard. Just incorporate that hazard into your scan. That way you will always have an idea as to where the car is.

* Lengthen your following distance. Firstly, it sounds like you were probably following a little close to start with, but even if you weren't, lengthening the distance further will give you more breathing space and more room to react - especially when you make mistakes which you inevitably will as a learner rider (or an experienced rider for that matter).

* Don't get squished by the car behind you that is also no paying attention - lengthen your following distance.

* When you ride, practice identifying escape routes. See if you can always have one planned.

Stay safe.

P.

[steve_t]

+1 for increasing the distance between you and the vehicle in front of your when there's someone tailgating you. You get to slow down slower and reduce the chance of getting smashed from behind

[GOONR]

Just some thoughts in no particular order - I'm a relatively new rider as well; however, I have a lot of advanced driver training under my belt from a former life.

* It was good to notice the hazard behind and to your right; however, don't forget to keep scanning. Don't fixate on one hazard. Just incorporate that hazard into your scan. That way you will always have an idea as to where the car is.

* Lengthen your following distance. Firstly, it sounds like you were probably following a little close to start with, but even if you weren't, lengthening the distance further will give you more breathing space and more room to react - especially when you make mistakes which you inevitably will as a learner rider (or an experienced rider for that matter).

* Don't get squished by the car behind you that is also no paying attention - lengthen your following distance.

* When you ride, practice identifying escape routes. See if you can always have one planned.

Stay safe.

P.

Cheers Paddy,

Yeah, I may have been a bit closer than usual to the car in front, nah fuck it, I must have been too close for the gap to disappear like that. Generally I try to leave a large gap but must have misjudged it in this instance. Yup target fixation must have be a part of it as well.

[skinman]

hey goonr
well done for not binning
how do you get on with the fuzz going over the bridge & I presume some distance on the motorway on an L?
living in the south the m way for me is a quick way of getting around but have not used yet as not meant to do more than 70 although there are so many roadworks that most of the mway seems to be 80 limit at the mo.

[Hawkeye]

I've always found it beneficial to travel just off the white line. Right in the left lane, left in the right lane.
This gives you the best options. You are in the mirrors of the car in front and you have the gap to shoot alongside in the case of what you describe.
I went into the back of a ute by doing exactly as you have described. A ute with ABS brakes can stop much quicker than a bike especially if you don't leave a big enough gap.
Leaving too big a gap can have the opposite affect. Cages will try to use it. It's all about balance. Make sure you always have your escape route available but don't travel too close or too far back.

[GOONR]

hey goonr
well done for not binning
how do you get on with the fuzz going over the bridge & I presume some distance on the motorway on an L?
living in the south the m way for me is a quick way of getting around but have not used yet as not meant to do more than 70 although there are so many roadworks that most of the mway seems to be 80 limit at the mo.

Over the bridge is easy really, it's only a 80kph area, so me doing 85 (yes it's illegal) and keeping up with the flow has never been an issue, I've had plod sat right behind me and never been worried bout being pulled over.

[GOONR]

I've always found it beneficial to travel just off the white line. Right in the left lane, left in the right lane.
This gives you the best options. You are in the mirrors of the car in front and you have the gap to shoot alongside in the case of what you describe.
I went into the back of a ute by doing exactly as you have described. A ute with ABS brakes can stop much quicker than a bike especially if you don't leave a big enough gap.
Leaving too big a gap can have the opposite affect. Cages will try to use it. It's all about balance. Make sure you always have your escape route available but don't travel too close or too far back.

get ya with the white line thing, do the same myself.

Cheers.

EDIT: just didn't think I had enough room between the car in front and the car in the right hand lane to use that option.

[YellowDog]

Yes I agree that it is not a nice feeling when you can be compromised from left right back and front. And the harbour bridge is a bit of a free for all.

You do need to leave a reasonable gap between you and the car in front however as has already been said, some bugger will fill it if it is too big.

My own strategy for the bridge is to work with the traffic flow and keep overtaking when safe. This involves avoiding car mirror blind spots and passing when clear. If you are always overtaking you can't get boxed in and if it all stops, you have an escape route between the lanes. 10secs up and 10 secs down and then up the Onewa Road.

[sinfull]

What should I have done, apart from having an exit route. I don't want the "Katman" explanation of we are all fuckwits and get what we deserve. I want to learn from this and know how to avoid this kind of situation in the future.

'PS Katman' I'm a learner , I'm on my L plate and it is always on the back of the bike. I'm after advice not crap criticism Calling Katman ....


If that's all you've manged to glean from anything I've posted, my advice is.....improve. Fair input !


Like I said, if you have no constructive input then please stay quiet. Thank you!


Glad your ok Goonr .....you cant plan for everything...sometimes it all happens too quick .And Katman Fuck Off you Homo..Waiting behind his keyboard ready to pounce, what a joke.. You coonts are so bandwagon it aint funny, can either of you dweebs actually tell me the point Katman tries to get across ?

[GOONR]

Calling Katman ....

Fair input !



You coonts are so bandwagon it aint funny, can either of you dweebs actually tell me the point Katman tries to get across ?

The point that he tries to get across is that we don't do ourselves any favours by coming to harm to often, that is taken on board (hence why I asked what could I do better next time)...... His delivery sucks, did he offer anything constructive to this thread. No.

[neels]

The point is he has caught himself out concentrating on just one thing, and learnt from it. I've done it and I'm sure most people have at some time.

You just need to keep thinking to yourself if this goes wrong where do I go. All the time. And not just on your bike :yes:

[AlpinePossum]

I glanced in my mirror and noticed a car slightly behind me in the right hand lane indicating left, there is no gap for him to get in to so I assume he's heading for the 'gap' that is me. keep on glancing in the mirror then do a head check cause I can't see him anymore... the next thing is I'm looking forward again and everything in front has almost stopped. I hit the brakes hard, the 4x4 behind me hits the brakes hard. There is probably less than a metre in between me and the car in front and I would guess a bit less between me and the car behind.


Suggestion 1. Grow your space. Hang back a bit from the guy in front, tap your brakes to make your brake lights go on to get the guy behind to back off a bit. You own and deserve and can take your SUV size patch of tar. Claim it.

Suggestion 2. If you think guy on right is heading for your space... wobble a bit around in your lane. Make it clear you own _all_ of it.

Suggestion 3. Fuck this polite englishy "don't make a fuss" culture. Hoot if you even think some bugger hasn't noticed you. Wake them up!

Finally... Clap yourself on the back... Shit happened and you're alive.

Plan A is to always keep out of the shit.

But life sucks and sometimes you land deep in it anyway.

You kept your head and your control and didn't slam into the car in front, and you didn't fall under the wheels of the car behind.

That is Good News, Good driving.

Now don't get cocky.

Stick to Plan A.

[paddy]

Suggestion 1. Grow your space. Hang back a bit from the guy in front, tap your brakes to make your brake lights go on to get the guy behind to back off a bit. You own and deserve and can take your SUV size patch of tar. Claim it.

Suggestion 2. If you think guy on right is heading for your space... wobble a bit around in your lane. Make it clear you own _all_ of it.

Suggestion 3. Fuck this polite englishy "don't make a fuss" culture. Hoot if you even think some bugger hasn't noticed you. Wake them up!

Finally... Clap yourself on the back... Shit happened and you're alive.

Plan A is to always keep out of the shit.

But life sucks and sometimes you land deep in it anyway.

You kept your head and your control and didn't slam into the car in front, and you didn't fall under the wheels of the car behind.

That is Good News, Good driving.

Now don't get cocky.

Stick to Plan A.

That's good solid advice. You safety on the road is more important that others perceptions of you.

[YellowDog]

Suggestion 1. Grow your space. Hang back a bit from the guy in front, tap your brakes to make your brake lights go on to get the guy behind to back off a bit. You own and deserve and can take your SUV size patch of tar. Claim it.

Suggestion 2. If you think guy on right is heading for your space... wobble a bit around in your lane. Make it clear you own _all_ of it.

Suggestion 3. Fuck this polite englishy "don't make a fuss" culture. Hoot if you even think some bugger hasn't noticed you. Wake them up!

Finally... Clap yourself on the back... Shit happened and you're alive.

Plan A is to always keep out of the shit.

But life sucks and sometimes you land deep in it anyway.

You kept your head and your control and didn't slam into the car in front, and you didn't fall under the wheels of the car behind.

That is Good News, Good driving.

Now don't get cocky.

Stick to Plan A.
:agree:

Nice post.

It's rare that I go past any kind of juction with a 'parp' 'parp' to get eye contact.

[GOONR]

Suggestion 1. Grow your space. Hang back a bit from the guy in front, tap your brakes to make your brake lights go on to get the guy behind to back off a bit. You own and deserve and can take your SUV size patch of tar. Claim it.

Suggestion 2. If you think guy on right is heading for your space... wobble a bit around in your lane. Make it clear you own _all_ of it.

Suggestion 3. Fuck this polite englishy "don't make a fuss" culture. Hoot if you even think some bugger hasn't noticed you. Wake them up!

Finally... Clap yourself on the back... Shit happened and you're alive.

Plan A is to always keep out of the shit.

But life sucks and sometimes you land deep in it anyway.

You kept your head and your control and didn't slam into the car in front, and you didn't fall under the wheels of the car behind.

That is Good News, Good driving.

Now don't get cocky.

Stick to Plan A.

Cheers mate, obviously plan A is always the best. When your learning sometimes your plan A ain't as good as it should be or it ain't the right plan though aye!! Hence the thread!!!

[paddy]

Cheers mate, obviously plan A is always the best. When your learning sometimes your plan A ain't as good as it should be or it ain't the right plan though aye!! Hence the thread!!!

That actually opens an interesting debate on human nature. When you are learning, hopefully you allow a greater safety margin as you know you will make mistakes. I tend to ride rural twisties at say 60% of my capacity because I know that periodically I'll make a 30% mistake.

As we get more experienced, we become complacent. Maybe start riding at 80, 90, or even 95 percent of our capability. It feels nice and safe. We are in control. Now, as a learner I probably make a 30% mistake every couple of months - that period is growing as I become more experienced. An very experienced rider might make a 10% mistake every decade. The problem is when that coincides with the same rider riding at 95% of their capability. An experienced rider riding at 95% is probably going very fast. When that 10% happens - it's likely to be bad. That's when you hear of riders who have been riding for 20 or 30 years loosing control on a corner with no other vehicles involved. Or perhaps going under an oncoming car.

Anyway, that's deviating from the original thread topic a little. :-)

P.

[GOONR]

The point is he has caught himself out concentrating on just one thing, and learnt from it. I've done it and I'm sure most people have at some time.

You just need to keep thinking to yourself if this goes wrong where do I go. All the time. And not just on your bike :yes:

Cheers neels,

Exactly, I know the situation was by far from ideal, I don't want to be another slab of meat picked up from the roadside. I have asked for constructive comments on how to avoid something similar in the future.

Katman, Sinfull.... any constructive comments are very very welcome. I don't want to end up as another bad statistic.

[AlpinePossum]

Here's another quick idea....

I'm less keen on this "Head Check" thing than some.

I find (as you did) it takes my eyes off the crucial sector for too long.

The goddam miltary made me drive a vehicle for a year that had just plain no windows on the side / back. ie. Head checks were worse than useless.

So I learnt...

* Yes you can adjust your mirrors to see everywhere you need to see. If not, adjust them some more, or buy longer stalks for them. (My DR looks like Bugs Bunny. :-) When you drive past a stationary vehicle, check.. when could you see it in the mirror?

* You can only fly your vehicle... at some level you just have to trust everyone else to do The Right Thing about flying theirs!

So I tend to reserve the "Head Check" thing for shifting lanes.

* If you're shifting lanes, hang back a bit more from the car in front (in case he brakes while you're looking back), head check, then... squirt on a tad of speed. ie. (If Plan A goes wrong, that squirt of speed will carry you ahead of them)

[GOONR]

That actually opens an interesting debate on human nature. When you are learning, hopefully you allow a greater safety margin as you know you will make mistakes. I tend to ride rural twisties at say 60% of my capacity because I know that periodically I'll make a 30% mistake.

As we get more experienced, we become complacent. Maybe start riding at 80, 90, or even 95 percent of our capability. It feels nice and safe. We are in control. Now, as a learner I probably make a 30% mistake every couple of months - that period is growing as I become more experienced. An very experienced rider might make a 10% mistake every decade. The problem is when that coincides with the same rider riding at 95% of their capability. An experienced rider riding at 95% is probably going very fast. When that 10% happens - it's likely to be bad. That's when you hear of riders who have been riding for 20 or 30 years loosing control on a corner with no other vehicles involved. Or perhaps going under an oncoming car.

Anyway, that's deviating from the original thread topic a little. :-)

P.

Interesting and I can follow your line of thought. I am by no means complacent and I don't think that is what you implied. I know I have masses to learn.

[paddy]

Interesting and I can follow your line of thought. I am by no means complacent and I don't think that is what you implied. I know I have masses to learn.

No, certainly wasn't implying that. I was just off on a philosophical tangent. :-)

[jeffs]

You can take all the suggestions you have been given on board, but what you really need to do is practice them. Work out which ones fit the traffic conditions you are riding in, and every night and morning you cross the bridge practice.

Or all the advise in the world will not help.

Now is the best time to get it working for you, because at this time the bridge is at its quietest. Then when the real heavy traffic starts up again after the hols you will be more prepared.

Over think every thing, and you could find yourself in less control and riding more erratically. Or relax ( to a point ) and it could just feel right first time.

Just remember the trip over the bridge takes 2 min, it really does not make the world end if it takes 2 1/2 min. ( well for a commuter anyway :) )

But riding faster to keep yourself out of trouble in very high volume traffic is NOT the answer.

[sinfull]

The point that he tries to get across is that we don't do ourselves any favours by coming to harm to often, that is taken on board (hence why I asked what could I do better next time)...... His delivery sucks, did he offer anything constructive to this thread. No.

Mehhhhhh wrong answer !
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Constructive ? "Improve" sounds constructive !


I believe you have the "pack mentallity of a rabid dog" and are just jumping on the bandwagon of hate katman for what he does, without even knowing why he does it !
You may think his delivery sucks but,
everybody reads his posts ! Except you by the sounds, if as steve said, thats all you HAVE gleamed from them !
Perhaps you should go into his profile and find all his threads and see what point he is trying to get across


But remember !
Was you who made a near painfull error while riding ?
Was you who literally invited katman into the thread in your first post was it not ?
Then tell him to fuck off when he comments !
Hello !!!

[YellowDog]

The :ME after Katman's handle means he is supposed to be a Site Mentor.

I would suggest to you that his derogatory and negative attacks serve no more than to piss people off. It is a shame that it is the 'same old notes' almost everytime a contentious or debatable issue arrises. Posters with genuine situations need constructive advice and guidance.

Maybe Katman needs to learn some basic communication skills to help him let others benefit from his valuable experience and be a better Mentor.

This thread raises some very valid points but was unfortunately started in a defensive manner by pre-empting the 'attack of the Katman'. If KB members are too embarrassed or afraid to raise what may turn out to make them look stupid (and be called stupid), then the the most valuable purpose of this site will have been compromised.

But in saying that, Katman doesn't piss me off (he doesn't even make my top 10 complete dickhead list) and I do quite enjoy some of his posts. Maybe I get his sense of humour more than most :)

Just some food for thought.

[pritch]

did he offer anything constructive to this thread. No.

"Fair input."

[GOONR]

Mehhhhhh wrong answer !
So he want's people to continue to fall off, I very much doubt that.


Constructive ? "Improve" sounds constructive !
Ok, maybe constructive was the wrong term. If Katman had said "Improve" along with a suggestion I could have taken that on board and it may well help me to improve.



I believe you have the "pack mentallity of a rabid dog" and are just jumping on the bandwagon of hate katman for what he does, without even knowing why he does it !
You may think his delivery sucks but,
everybody reads his posts ! Except you by the sounds, if as steve said, thats all you HAVE gleamed from them !
Perhaps you should go into his profile and find all his threads and see what point he is trying to get across


But remember !
Was you who made a near painfull error while riding ?
Was you who literally invited katman into the thread in your first post was it not ?
Then tell him to fuck off when he comments !
Hello !!!

I don't hate Katman at all, I think his message is a good one, his delivery not so. I want to be able to learn from any error's that I make. Simply saying 'improve' wont help me to do that.

[Virago]

The point that he tries to get across is that we don't do ourselves any favours by coming to harm to often, that is taken on board (hence why I asked what could I do better next time)...... His delivery sucks, did he offer anything constructive to this thread. No.

So why did you specifically single him out in the first post? Was that constructive?

You reap what you sow...

[Oakie]

So why did you specifically single him out in the first post? Was that constructive?

You reap what you sow...

Turned out that Goonrs comment was a pretty good call though. Telling someone to "improve" is like asking a mechanic why your bike doesn't accelerate cleanly and all he says is "fix it". All Goonr wanted some some constructive advice.

[YellowDog]

So why did you specifically single him out in the first post? Was that constructive?

You reap what you sow...
Like I said, putting posters on the defensive in fear of the 'Attack of the Katman' is not a good thing.

The first post of this thread is a clear example.

[Virago]

Turned out that Goonrs comment was a pretty good call though. Telling someone to "improve" is like asking a mechanic why your bike doesn't accelerate cleanly and all he says is "fix it". All Goonr wanted some some constructive advice.

So he started it with some non-constructive and completely unnecessary critisism? By his own hand, he made this a Katman thread.

Still, one way or another, Katman's message does get through...

[sinfull]

So he started it with some non-constructive and completely unnecessary critisism? By his own hand, he made this a Katman thread.

Still, one way or another, Katman's message does get through...

Exacary !
And in no way did katman rip into the OP he simply said improve,

The OP took responsibility for his mistake, so why would Katman critisize !

But if the first post said "i don't want you commenting sinfull", i'd be in, balls and all !

[Oakie]

I'm sure Goonr would have welcomed a useful post from Katman...one that offered practical advice. Goonr obviously created the thread in the desire to 'improve'. The option was there for Katman to give Goonr the benefit of his experience as other more helpful posters have done but for someone who trumpets the safety message here whenever he gets the opportunity - to merely offer "improve" is just a bit annoying. A bit of substance rather than a smart-arse comment would have been more appropriate from him.

The fact that Goonr pre-empted Katman's reponse speaks more about Katman than it does of Goonr.

[Owl]

But if the first post said "i don't want you commenting sinfull", i'd be in, balls and all !

That's nearly a reason just to start a thread!:laugh:

As for Katman's first post, I thought it was very civil. Must be that Xmas spirit!:msn-wink:

[jeffs]

The last 10 posts in this thread have been Katman related posts.

This person is asking HOW DO I DO IT BETTER ?

Please stop fixating on katman ( god i'm doing at well ) :)

and move on.

I'm sure Katman would rather the poster got advise, than wasted time talking about Katman. ( probably ).

Katman has given him input " Improve", now the rest of you, expand on Katmans input and tell him how.

[Oakie]

As for Katman's first post, I thought it was very civil. Must be that Xmas spirit!:msn-wink:

Yes, I must admit, it was at least civil.
Jeez, I don't know why this has got me so wound up. I think I must need a ride. (It's been three days ... unless you count pillioning the grandaughter around the section on the Bandit on Xmas day ... even made her wear her 'Dora the Explorer' bike helmet)

[GOONR]

.........

but was unfortunately started in a defensive manner .......



Maybe I could have started the thread better and not on the defensive, my mistake, apologies.

[Maha]

Tora! Tora! Tora!

[Katman]

Group hug.

:grouphug:

[jeffs]

Group hug.

:grouphug:


God you have become soft :)

[KiWiP]

I'm not an experienced motorcycle rider but I did teach defensive driving in the UK a few years back and one of the main things to consider is to increase your safe options.

1. Always keep a safe gap ahead of you. If someone nips in just increase your gap behind the 'infiltrator' at the next set of lights/slow traffic you will pass them anyway. If someone is crowding you there is little you can do. They probably are unaware of their distance to you. It is estimated that at least 30% of drivers have undiagnosed imperfect eyesight. If you have space to brake then they have time to react.

2. Make yourself 'BIG' i.e. do not push yourself into the shoulder, it will encourage others to try to slip past you or worse ignore you, sit centre/right of lane. Sit upright so you have a full view and your follower will have a bigger target :dodge:. This also increases your exit options, to the left onto the shoulder, to the right into the gap vacated by the offender or close into the safe space you have reserved for yourself.

3. Tap the brakes occasionally, it flashes the lights and takes the radio listeners out of their delirium (hopefully).

4. If you have a completely aggressive tosser targeting you, pull over let them go their way. They will die of an embolism before lunchtime (hopefully).

Right I've just realised that most of this has been said but it's taken me half an hour to type so stuff it I'm posting any way.

Glad you survived Goonr even if you are as I suspect a 'Gooner' I'm forever blowing bubbles :whocares: