Is big better?

[varminter]

I took the 250 Katana for a run around yesterday, just to prevent moss build up, and I was wondering if other road users see smaller bikes less well than bigger ones (yes, I know it seems obvious, ...but...) Some numbnuts towing a trailer decided to coast out in front of me on Te Ngae road, well, stop just means slow a bit don't it. I bloody sure he wouldn't have done it in front of the Strom. Big bike, two lamps, but who knows. Makes me feel a tiny bit safer.

[mattian]

I used to think it never made much of a difference when I rode my 250. I thought they treated all bikes the same, but, I've gotta say, since I graduated to my full and got myself a 650, I find I have much less trouble with drivers attitudes towards me. Now, I would also like to think that, as I have gained more experience, I've also learnt to anticipate all kinds of things that may have got me amped up when I was still learning on my nifty 250. So, I could be just mellowing out alot more.

[CookMySock]

since I graduated to my full and got myself a 650, I find I have much less trouble with drivers attitudes towards me.Oh yeah. Try puttin a REAL LOUD pipe on it, and watch the same happen again. They get the FUCK out of your way real quick.


[perhaps] I've also learnt to anticipate all kinds of things that may have got me amped up when I was still learning on my nifty 250. So, I could be just mellowing out alot more.Nah, its just you have a bigger metaphorical cock now, so you have less to prove.

edit: it's interesting going back to a 250 for wee turn.. it feels more fun and light hearted. Somehow, simpler.

Steve

[caseye]

The car driver who hits you and then says " I didn
't see you" actually means. "I saw you but decided you were not enough of a threat to consider and continued on MY Way"
Yes the size of your bike helps them make a different decision.
Yes having your headlight on makes you More Visible.
But only to those who want to see you and react accordingly.
I have a suggestion for you.
Go get your 650, add panniers to it, a screen and at least a bikini fairing.
Paint the thing WHITE.
Problem solved, a WHITE BIKE = Traffic/Police.
They always see them and acknowledge the THREAT By BEHAVING AS THEY DAMND WELL SHOULD ANYWAY!
I've seen Traffic guys bin their own bikes but not yet in over 30 years of riding have I seen a Traffic/Police bike involved in the CLASSIC "I didn't see you" accident.

[Ixion]

I got a big white BMW. With panniers screen white helmet and hi vis vest.

Doesn't work, they still do they same fuckwittery. The only thing it does work for, they make way a lot better when I'm lane splitting.

Snakes don't have SMIDSY accidents because they ride defensively. (Assuming they don't , I wouldn't bet on it myself

[caseye]

I got a big white BMW. With panniers screen white helmet and hi vis vest.

Doesn't work, they still do they same fuckwittery. The only thing it does work for, they make way a lot better when I'm lane splitting.

Snakes don't have SMIDSY accidents because they ride defensively. (Assuming they don't , I wouldn't bet on it myself

Ya can't be holding yer tongue right then! LOL, though you have actual evidence to the contrary and I'm not about to dispute it
I 'd be interested one day to find out how many MOT?Police bikes have been involved in "I didn't see you" accidents.
I firmly believe that proportionally the figures will be way down on normal.

[YellowDog]

IMO - Huge bikes get noticed because they are huge.

The same goes for loud bikes.

But I believe that it is our own individual riding styles that have the largest influence.

The Fuckwitt with the trailer may well have given the same disrespect to a Police motorcycle. The law of averages says that you won't meet him everyday.

[crash harry]

I think there's a large degree of how you ride that affects whether people see you or not. I base that on my experience of having had people not see me a lot more when I was a learner - I think my road attitude was more timid than it is now. If you're on a different bike than your usual ride, perhaps your road presence is less commanding than usual? Particularly if the bike is smaller you may be unconciously riding with less than your usual bearing?

That's only a theory though. Perhaps Mr. Trailer would have pulled out in front of a train - people do sometimes...

[CookMySock]

I got a big white BMW. With panniers screen white helmet and hi vis vest. Doesn't work, they still do they same fuckwittery.Thats because you have "poofter" metaphorically written across the front of your helmet.

What you need is a black helmet and black visor and a red or black bike with a really noisy exhaust, then suddenly you have "asshole" written across your helmet. Instead respect afforded - end of problem.

Steve

[Ocean1]

I think there's a large degree of how you ride that affects whether people see you or not.

They say "own your piece of road", as far as I'm concerned that extends quite some distance. Any vehicle threatening to turn onto my road at an intersection gets "the look". It's surprising how many choose to look my way and "see me" at exactly that point.

[CookMySock]

Any vehicle threatening to turn onto my road at an intersection gets "the look". It's surprising how many choose to look my way and "see me" at exactly that point.I dunno about that, but humans like many other species, have an inbuilt mechanism that tells them if some heavy fast-moving object has a trajectory that implies said heavy object will shortly occupy their personal space, and I find giving them the eye combined with a swerve that puts them right in my crosshairs really makes them think twice.

I also would like cagers to know, nay, believe, that should they pull out in front of me and force me to hit them, I will be aiming riiiiiiiite for their drivers' door panel, or failing that, the door of their lovely passenger. They should believe this very strongly, because it is true. :nono:

It's very very important not to pull out in front of motorcyclists travelling at speed. Why? Because you if you do you are going to die. :nono:

Steve

[caseye]

I dunno about that, but humans like many other species, have an inbuilt mechanism that tells them if some heavy fast-moving object has a trajectory that implies said heavy object will shortly occupy their personal space, and I find giving them the eye combined with a swerve that puts them right in my crosshairs really makes them think twice.

I also would like cagers to know, nay, believe, that should they pull out in front of me and force me to hit them, I will be aiming riiiiiiiite for their drivers' door panel, or failing that, the door of their lovely passenger. They should believe this very strongly, because it is true. :nono:

It's very very important not to pull out in front of motorcyclists travelling at speed. Why? Because you if you do you are going to die. :nono:

Steve

LOL! I find myself agreeing totally with this one DB, well said.

[enigma51]

Yes it is

[YellowDog]

LOL! I find myself agreeing totally with this one DB, well said.
"He's a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."

:rofl:

[enigma51]

I dunno about that, but humans like many other species, have an inbuilt mechanism that tells them if some heavy fast-moving object has a trajectory that implies said heavy object will shortly occupy their personal space, and I find giving them the eye combined with a swerve that puts them right in my crosshairs really makes them think twice.

I also would like cagers to know, nay, believe, that should they pull out in front of me and force me to hit them, I will be aiming riiiiiiiite for their drivers' door panel, or failing that, the door of their lovely passenger. They should believe this very strongly, because it is true. :nono:

It's very very important not to pull out in front of motorcyclists travelling at speed. Why? Because you if you do you are going to die. :nono:

Steve

The only person that will be dying is you you dumb fuck. They are in a car your on a bike if you go head first into a door you die end of story.

Stop giving advice clearly your a retard.

[fliplid]

It's very very important not to pull out in front of motorcyclists travelling at speed. Why? Because you if you do you are going to die. :nono:

Well, someone will probably wind up getting seriously hurt/killed, usually the rider getting flung down the road!:mad:

[Usarka]

I also would like cagers to know, nay, believe, that should they pull out in front of me and force me to hit them, I will be aiming riiiiiiiite for their drivers' door panel, or failing that, the door of their lovely passenger. They should believe this very strongly, because it is true. :nono:

It's very very important not to pull out in front of motorcyclists travelling at speed. Why? Because you if you do you are going to die. :nono:

Steve

If you have time to react you'd use it to ram the driver?

Personally I'd like to scrub as much speed as possible or at least make some attempt to survive.

But each to their own :wacko:

[scumdog]

IMO - Huge bikes get noticed because they are huge.




I've been to a crash where on a fine sunny day in a 50kph area an old lady failed to give way to a Boss Hoss and T-boned it.

And you don't get many bike bigger than THEM on NZ roads.

[CookMySock]

If you have time to react you'd use it to ram the driver?

Personally I'd like to scrub as much speed as possible or at least make some attempt to survive. I guess thats just where I am at in my life.

I did say, if I was forced to hit him. There is almost always a gap around the side of something that a bike will fit down. Very very rare that there is no such gap.

But if they do force the impossible on me, I'll go kamakaze on them, no shit. Think twice, cagers. :whistle:

Steve

[scumdog]

It's very very important not to pull out in front of motorcyclists travelling at speed. Why? Because you if you do you are going to die. :nono:

Steve


Oh yeah, like the cemeteries are full of drivers killed by motorcyclists doing the above..:rolleyes:

And all the motorcyclists walked away dusting off their gloves...

[CookMySock]

I've been to a crash where on a fine sunny day in a 50kph area an old lady failed to give way to a Boss Hoss and T-boned it.

And you don't get many bike bigger than THEM on NZ roads.Lil' old ladies are known to cross intersections without looking whatsoever. :(

Steve

[fliplid]

Lil' old ladies are known to cross intersections without looking whatsoever. :(

Steve
And there's loads of folks out there who shouldn't have passed a driving test or shouldn't still be on the road, but they are.

[CookMySock]

And there's loads of folks out there who shouldn't have passed a driving test or shouldn't still be on the road, but they are.Can't disagree there, but I do think that the majority of people have a good idea what they are doing. You have to trust others mentality somewhat eventually, or else being on the road is just too much stress.

Steve

[GTRMAN]

I read an interesting article about hazard perception, fairly long winded but the general understanding is that you tend to look for hazards that are equal or greater in size than the vehice you are driving. So for instance a cage driver can look straight at you and not register that you are actually there. This seems to work right up the scale, big cars hit small cars, 4x4's hit big cars, trucks hit 4x4's.....

So it comes down to this, with the exception of scooters and cyclists we are at the bottom of the food chain. Let paranoia reign surpreme... everone on the road wants to kill you.

or steal a dump truck from a strip mine.....

[Ixion]

Thats because you have "poofter" metaphorically written across the front of your helmet.

What you need is a black helmet and black visor and a red or black bike with a really noisy exhaust, then suddenly you have "asshole" written across your helmet. Instead respect afforded - end of problem.

Steve


Well, the original comment was that bikes which resemble police bikes don't have problems. My experience differs.

But I ALSO have a big black bike (with a noisy zorst actually). And I sometimes wear black helmet and black leather jacket . And the result is exactly the same . The idiots are too stupid to process that there's a bike there at all, let alone what sort.

However, the look and swerve toward them thing you mention DOES work. I do it frequently. As does a lonnnnnggggg LOUD blast on my very loud horn, if anyone even vaguely looks like thinking about not stopping. Sticking ones arm out toward them with a clenched fist also works.

Overall I don't often have a problem with people not giving way, so maybe I am not a good reference.

[StoneY]

Only thing that makes me feel safer on my bike is LOUD pipes

Noise is more intimiding than a mere headlight, regardless size of machine (i want my 750 back)

[scumdog]

Only thing that makes me feel safer on my bike is LOUD pipes

Noise is more intimiding than a mere headlight, regardless size of machine (i want my 750 back)

Don't depend on the noise - on a motoway nobody on front of you hears it until you're right behind them (and even then 'maybe') and then has to figure out who is making the noise - you (who they may not have actually seen) or the other quiet motorbike that is in their vision....

And in town traffic again 'maybe' they will hear your bike - and figure out where/who the noise is coming from but again you might be right on top of them before they actually figure it out.

Vision beats ears when it comes to being noticed in traffic.

[varminter]

Well that's me convinced. It's an 8X4 sheet of ply with a big 'fuck off' truck painted on it placed on the bars of my bike, holes cut for eye's. Wind resistance a bit of a problem I suppose:2thumbsup

[CookMySock]

However, the look and swerve toward them thing you mention DOES work. I do it frequently. As does a lonnnnnggggg LOUD blast on my very loud horn, if anyone even vaguely looks like thinking about not stopping. Sticking ones arm out toward them with a clenched fist also works. Yeah, swerve around like a demented P-head idiot. I'm sure drivers are like "hoooleeee sheee-ittttt" when I do it. Add super bright projector HIDs and loud exhaust and pretty much everyone sees me. Wiener horn could do with upgrading though. :weep:

There are two problems with it - it polarises other motorists, and it attracts the attention of the fuzz. Neither of these have proved to be particularly troublesome. It's a bit tough when other motorcylists bitch about it, but thats mostly an online thing.

Steve

[SPman]

I 'd be interested one day to find out how many MOT?Police bikes have been involved in "I didn't see you" accidents.

From talking to several bike cops over the years, motorists are as oblivious to them as they are to "normal" motorcyclists - they have a lesser accident rate, because they are usually fully aware of what fuktard motorists are liable to do and ride accordingly.

When a motorist says "I didn't see you", often it is quite true - in the perfunctory scan of traffic, for various reasons, you weren't regarded as an immediate predatory threat and the brain tuned you out! If you are in doubt about a motorist waiting at an intersection, a weave or change of road position can often reinforce their brain's danger triggers, that you are actually there, close, and a danger.

On topic - small bikes are great fun. More and more peeps over here are getting smaller (and older) bikes - something you have to actually RIDE to get from A to B quickly.......

Anyway - it's 9 am and 39C with a catastrophic fire warning in place, so better go and break out the fire pump and hoses......

[gatch]

To the OP..

If you go by the mitre 10 mega ad's.

Big is good.

[crazyhorse]

I took the 250 Katana for a run around yesterday, just to prevent moss build up, and I was wondering if other road users see smaller bikes less well than bigger ones (yes, I know it seems obvious, ...but...) Some numbnuts towing a trailer decided to coast out in front of me on Te Ngae road, well, stop just means slow a bit don't it. I bloody sure he wouldn't have done it in front of the Strom. Big bike, two lamps, but who knows. Makes me feel a tiny bit safer.

No - any bike is see-able. In fact, probably easier to see a smaller bike, as they don't do the speeds a big one does. Sometimes I wonder what the cages think... one minute, nothing behind them, next minute.......... whoosh, there we go!

They probably have their tunnel vision goggles on when you are around :rofl:

[YellowDog]

This thread seems to vindicate my style of riding.

If you always ride 10-15kph faster than the traffic, you can read, plan for, and manage the hazzards as you approach them. Nice a smooth carefully choosing your lines.

Sit in a line of traffic and you are an accident waiting to happen.

[CookMySock]

This thread seems to vindicate my style of riding.

If you always ride 10-15kph faster than the traffic, you can read, plan for, and manage the hazzards as you approach them. Nice a smooth carefully choosing your lines.

Sit in a line of traffic and you are an accident waiting to happen.Yes indeedy. Smooth controlled progress through the traffic keeps 99.99% of the hazards in front of you, and you in command of them.

There is one thing though.. it is very reassuring.. so much so, that it's easy to stop looking behind you.. which of course you do at your peril... eventually..

Steve

[davebullet]

I don't think many cagers distinguish a small bike from a big bike. Sure, some bikes look a bit more menacing (eg. Buells) and therefore might get some more respect.

For me, it's a mind thing that I am on a bike that can accelerate and brake a bit better than the 250 I rode. That makes me feel safer. I agree with Crazyhorse in that a larger bike probably puts you at more risk as your speed differential can be greater.

[CookMySock]

I agree with Crazyhorse in that a larger bike probably puts you at more risk as your speed differential can be greater.Hopefully the rider is in control of that particular parameter.

It isn't the size of the bike, it is the perception of the size of the bike, and the perception of the intent of the rider. It's not hard to use the techniques mentioned to make yourself look much more of, a, um, "risk" to pull out in front of.

Steve

[YellowDog]

Yes indeedy. Smooth controlled progress through the traffic keeps 99.99% of the hazards in front of you, and you in command of them.

There is one thing though.. it is very reassuring.. so much so, that it's easy to stop looking behind you.. which of course you do at your peril... eventually..

Steve
Steve buddy I wouldn't put it as high as 99.9%, but it is pretty high.

I recently bought some mirror stalk extenders as I wasn't happy with the rear view (design fault with the bike). Also, the certain age thing when it gets harder to twist your neck all the way around is an issue. The 100mm ones were too long and made the bike look silly so I changed them for the 60mm ones. My blind spot has now reduced to 2-3m and I now have an excellent 180 degree view behind me. Checking that blind spot isn't such an issue now.

Happy and Safe New Year to you all.

[pritch]

I have a lot more trouble on the moped than on the bike. Drivers will look directly at me then pull into the piece of road that I'm using forcing me to brake. Others will pass by virtually forcing me off the road to avoid getting hit (these latter are invariably male drivers). This isn't rare, it happens several times every week. Possibly more frequently around the full moon?

One solution when riding a small bike would be to carry a big gun, but that's not allowed. Pity!

You just don't encounter the same outright aggression when on a bigger bike.

Having said that, the then Prez of the local 1%ers was T Boned on his Harley by a geriatric female who "didn't see him coming".

[fliplid]

There's a difference between looking and seeing. Loads of people "look", or more probably glance at the traffic, but if it doesn't actually register then it makes absolutely no difference and they will not "see" what's there.

[CookMySock]

Drivers will look directly at me then pull into the piece of road that I'm using forcing me to brake. Others will pass by virtually forcing me off the road to avoid getting hit (these latter are invariably male drivers). This isn't rare, it happens several times every week. eyeball them and swerve right at the fuckers. Take charge! Get a deathwish! Watch them rethink it then.


You just don't encounter the same outright aggression when on a bigger bike.You ARE right here. My young fella recently upgraded from a GT250R with a noisy exhaust, to a GT650R with a VERY noisy exhaust, and he noticed it instantly, "wow the traffic just GTFOTW - Insane! Are they scared of me? Love it!"


Having said that, the then Prez of the local 1%ers was T Boned on his Harley by a geriatric female who "didn't see him coming".Old farts do that. Beware the old fart with no eye contact!

Steve

[Footless]

In the case of bikes, I have found bigger more threatening bikes seem to be "attacked" less. But I am always looking at the driver not the cage.
In saying this I also drive a full size truck and you want to see what the suicidal fuckers do in front of 39tonne!
Cant wait till I'm not concentrating fully and end driving over their bonnet :weep:

[GOONR]

In the case of bikes, I have found bigger more threatening bikes seem to be "attacked" less. But I am always looking at the driver not the cage.
In saying this I also drive a full size truck and you want to see what the suicidal fuckers do in front of 39tonne!
Cant wait till I'm not concentrating fully and end driving over their bonnet :weep:

My old man used to drive a 30 something tonne in the UK, some idiot trying to pull out of a side street put the front of his car under the trailer , dad drove off and the trailer went straight over the top of the guys bonnet. Bit of a mess by all account's.

[6ft5]

IMO - Huge bikes get noticed because they are huge.

The same goes for loud bikes.

But I believe that it is our own individual riding styles that have the largest influence.

The Fuckwitt with the trailer may well have given the same disrespect to a Police motorcycle. The law of averages says that you won't meet him everyday.

Agree with that, my Roadking has 3 headlights (always all on) and makes a lot of noise. And I demand to be seen, ie I use the whole road where i can.

But there are always people that have fallen off a horse and think driving a car is the same, the percentage of these is low in my mind and as long as you anticipate you should be right most of the time

Keep the shiny side up !!