The Dog & Lemon Guide Book

[EJK]

Whos got a copy? It's a Christchurch-Yellow-Pages-thick guide book for most cars ever produced (Also has brief history of brands, details, specs, faults, safety info, reliability info et cetera). I got mine today and I'm so amazed about how much info it has.

Put it this way. With a copy, you might be able to get a Ph.D on Automobile...... twice. If you try.


It's a must have book for any hardcore car enthusiasts or people whom dream job is to become a car dealer.

[MikeL]

I bought one a few months ago when I had to replace my car (not a process I ever take any pleasure in). Lots of informative detail, well worth the price. You have to accept the fact that the authors dislike almost every car on the road for one reason or another, so it comes down to avoiding the worst. The car I eventually bought was rated "Okay" - high praise indeed.

[James Deuce]

Written by a guy who owns a Hindustan Ambassador.

[EJK]

I bought one a few months ago when I had to replace my car (not a process I ever take any pleasure in). Lots of informative detail, well worth the price. You have to accept the fact that the authors dislike almost every car on the road for one reason or another, so it comes down to avoiding the worst. The car I eventually bought was rated "Okay" - high praise indeed.

Just like that. I thought it was written by Simon Cowell or Gordon Ramsey.

[slowpoke]

Written by a guy who owns a Hindustan Ambassador.

The GT version no less.

[Motu]

Written by a guy who owns a Hindustan Ambassador.

If he owned an Aston Martin or Ferarri I wouldn't believe a thing he wrote.Fortunately he lives in the real world and know his cars.

[SMOKEU]

I wouldn't believe half the shit that book says. It's a very entertaining read though (I have my own copy).

[James Deuce]

If he owned an Aston Martin or Ferarri I wouldn't believe a thing he wrote.Fortunately he lives in the real world and know his cars.

If'n he owned a Toyota Corolla I'd be quoting it like the Bible and having D&L Mass on a hilltop every Sunday.

[Motu]

If'n he owned a Toyota Corolla I'd be quoting it like the Bible and having D&L Mass on a hilltop every Sunday.

Well,after having a KE20,and a Series II Oxford....they are both never say die cars.The Corolla refused to die from neglect and learner drivers...the Oxford refused to buckle under abuse and just doing what it was never intended to attempt.However,one of them had a much longer production span....something that is just normal for a Sir Alex design.

[warewolf]

Yeah got one myself, a few years ago. Well worth the read if you are in to cars, history and social repercussions of the automobile, or wanting to buy used.

Fairly honest and objective reviews. Our last car had almost all the faults he listed. His focus is $$$ and safety. And virtually always says, "buy a late model Toyota". :laugh: Can be quite depressing reading, as he slags off virtually every other car on the market - including the one you own!!

Beware that the information is incomplete, and there are quite a few errors. eg conversion errors between mpg and L/100km are obvious to spot - they don't always match which makes you question the reliability of the data. Some sub-models are incorrectly listed with the wrong main model. And I think they should publish the major safety standards when they are known, eg new domestic Jap ones came in to force in 1/1/1996, for new models, but existing vehicles were allowed to be phased out, this was for passenger cars only (4wd/suv came later). So eg, a Toyota Ipsum started production in 1996 so complies with the new standard; the 1998 Isuzu Mu/Wizard doesn't, because it's a suv; the current Toyota Caldina in 1996 doesn't because it was already in production prior so didn't have to be changed immediately. For a book that is so keen on safety, you'd think they'd publish that information.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

In the 2007 copy I bought, the author seemed to have a hard on for mazdas.

Boring as hell cars to me but he liked them . They nearly all got "Recommended", when most decent cars (imo) ended up with "avoid like the plague" or suchlike.

I just presume it is written by a very conservative old guy.
Good info in there if you are buying a totally new (to yourself) type of car though.

[scissorhands]

I know of the author and some of his book production mates.

I'm very familiar with Citroen AX and BX, and the Dog and Lemon Guide is in no way accurate against my extensive experience of these 2 models.

Hes a hustler. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the model recommendations, though the general first bit is well written

[Taz]

I have found it to inacurate in a number of areas and to be one mans opinion at best.

[Conquiztador]

I can not se the value in a book rating dogs and lemons for us in a country where most of us have a lemon tree and dogs cost $20 at the RSPCA.

[Marmoot]

I've read it.

Written by retard who thinks he knows a lot about cars, when in fact he only knows so much about hyundai sonatas and toyota camrys and full with prejudices against anything non-conforming such as 2-door sports cars and big 4WDs.

Definitely a must-have guidebook for any AA, ACC and LTSA official position applicants and VTNZ WOF inspectors.

[Mully]

Written by a guy who owns a Hindustan Ambassador.

When I last read it, he'd got airbags retrofitted to the 50 year old thing he was driving. That puzzled me.


You have to accept the fact that the authors dislike almost every car on the road for one reason or another, so it comes down to avoiding the worst.

Bingo. I had an older copy and he had major hatred for anything that was exotic - Ferrari ("uses too much gas" - who gives a shit if they've got a Ferrari?)

He's also got a major hard-on for dissing Jap Imports. Across the board.

It echoes my point on here when people post "Which is best, X or Y bike?" - It all comes down to your intended use.

[gammaguy]

i take pride in the fact that my two cars are rated "dangerous" and "overcomplicated and expensive"respectively.

Makes owning and driving them so much more fun.:cool:

[Marmoot]

I really like it that when there is "no rating" available anywhere for a certain vehicle safety he would choose "dangerous" by default.

Seems like NZTA also takes this approach.
For example, my Toyota Supra safety ratings are classed as bad because there has not been any frontal impact test done on it.

Scientific my arse...

[Motu]

Scientific my arse...

No,covering their arse.The Great Wall utes have been slammed for not passing crash tests - because they don't have side airbags and stability control.They would still have better crash results than all of the Hi Lux and L200 utes still on the road.

PS - good to see you finally using NZTA....it's only been a year.

[YellowDog]

Dog & Lemon = H U G E piss take out of any car you have ever owned!

I loved it myself and whilst I didn't want to be overly influenced by a couple of complete clowns, I actually bought one of the very few cars they rate highly.

It was a coincidence!

[Marmoot]

PS - good to see you finally using NZTA....it's only been a year.

It does take a lot of getting used to.
The only reason I used NZTA was because I typed in "LTSA.govt.nz" in the browser and it came back with server not found.

[EJK]

I was quite suprised about the review the Author gave for Porsches.

Lots of Recommended and Okays (including 80's 911s but except Cayenne).

[kwaka_crasher]

Ah, the "Buy a Toyota Corolla Guide". I wouldn't waste my time with it.

[EJK]

I spent almost the whole last night reading this book. It's marvelous!

Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair.


The book has everything and more than what new buyers need to know. It's absolutely, a fantastic book. I spent hundreds of dollars on my uni text books but this $25 book is by far the most knowledgable bang for buck book I've ever bought.

[kwaka_crasher]

Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair.

Based on your knowledge. Pray tell, what are your automotive industry qualifications?

[JimO]

I .Fortunately he lives in the real world and know his cars.

he is still a knob

[EJK]

Based on your knowledge. Pray tell, what are your automotive industry qualifications?

Alright, I've never owned an Eurpean but I like the fact that the author(s) provide facts and realistic examples for cases. And also all statements are explained in front of the book. Opinions are balanced and well stated. I have read many books and mags but most of them just tells the reader what they want to hear. Most of all, it's very humorous.

My automotive industry qualification don't matter. I'm looking from customer's point of view.

[kwaka_crasher]

My automotive industry qualification don't matter. I'm looking from customer's point of view.

But it does matter since your conclusion that the book is "Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair" comes largely from a position of ignorance if you don't have actual experience of the vehicles. The methodology used to collect the 'data' is hugely flawed.

[EJK]

In comparison with other reads, it's agreeable (for me) that the book looks both ways and that itself is "Unbiased. unprejudiced. Fair*" for me. It's more through than Jeremy Clarkson's review on a Scuderia. Did I need to own a Ferrari to make this observation too?

Say what you want. My observation is mine and that doesn't mean it should be in agreement to yours too. I may not know more automobile than you however it's my personal opinion (2 cent) that this book is fun and enjoyable to read, and fairly observative compared to some other medias.



*Search the phrase, it's from the film "Batman: Dark Knight".

[onearmedbandit]

Speaking as someone who was a car dealer for 11yrs, that book should be taken with more than just a pinch of salt EJK.

[peasea]

Speaking as someone who was a car dealer for 11yrs, that book should be taken with more than just a pinch of salt EJK.

And I worked on all manner of vehicle for thirty years and I'd have to agree.

Working for various dealerships in that time (Nissan, Daimler, Ford, Holden, Toyota) I (and others) soon discovered that you get good and bad from the same production line. Mr Jones had a Nissan and it never broke down but Mr Smith had three and they all blew up, etc etc. You would also get what we termed 'Wednesday' cars, which drove better than the rest, went better than the rest and seemed to have fewer niggles. They were dubbed Wednesday cars because all the lemons came out on Monday (built by hung-over types who didn't want to be at work) and Friday (built by those eager to escape to the pub so as to return to build Monday cars). Tuesday and Thursday cars were so-so but the Wednesday cars had it all.

Much has changed since I started my apprenticeship back in early '73; these days you don't need to rip your cylinder head(s) off every 20-30,000 miles for a valve grind and very few cars and motorcycles need a drip tray under them.

Buy what you like, or can afford, and look after it. If it drives nicely, has good compressions and isn't knocking its arse off you're probably off to a good start.

[98tls]

Speaking as someone who was a car dealer for 11yrs, that book should be taken with more than just a pinch of salt EJK.

Agreed mate,8 years selling Fords/Toyotas,best money ive ever earnt fwiw.That guides about as relevant as Snow white and blah blah blah.

[EJK]

Agreed mate,8 years selling Fords/Toyotas,best money ive ever earnt fwiw.That guides about as relevant as Snow white and blah blah blah.


Speaking as someone who was a car dealer for 11yrs, that book should be taken with more than just a pinch of salt EJK.

Could you please explain further? I'd like to know more please (Outside of the book).
I'm not trying to criticize your profession but to have further understanding.

Cheers :)

[Pixie]

However,one of them had a much longer production span....something that is just normal for a Sir Alex design.

Only normal because the poms kept designs well past their use-by date,even when it caused their industry to collapse,and then the Indians buy the worn out tooling and continue to build the shit for another 50 years.Royal Enfield,anyone?

[cs363]

The author Clive Matthew-Wilson is such an annoying twat, that I struggle to read anything he's written.
Plus as others have said, whilst of passing interest it certainly isn't the most accurate guide around. Like any review it's only one persons opinion, so you have to balance his comments with your own experience and other reviews etc.

See: http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=586278

[FROSTY]

The dog n lemon is a FANTASTIC marketing tool for --well the dog n lemon of course.I've found it exceedingly usefull as a doorstop and for propping up my old couch.
If the book was indepth and totally fair on all makes n models I'd be happy to say fair go. But the author tarrs entire model ranges because of one bad car. Its kinda like me saying the entire Toyota range of product is crap because i drove /know about the toyota cavilier/surf 2.4 diesel/estima 2.2 diesel

[neels]

I pride myself on the fact that every car I have owned is either not recommended or avoid like the plague.

I now have a 4wd (oooohhhh) that runs on diesel (eeeek) with a turbo (aaaargh), three things he seems to loathe.
The other 2 cars I own are both european which he also hates, one of which I have owned for 7 years and 60 thousand k's, the only problems have been water hoses and the parts are cheaper than for a toyota.

I will continue to buy vehicles that are not recommended or avoid like the plague on principle just because the guy is such a twat.

[Marmoot]

The author seems insistent on the intention of making everyone slower than him by discouraging any fast cars, powerful engines, engines with big displacement, and body type lighter than a four door sedan.

Anything that is not new, green, equipped with electronic stability and brake control, have an engine displacement between 1300-2000cc and probably come with air-to-air missile countermeasures seem to be given a bad rap with emotive review (e.g., bold typeface "Avoid" word, etc).

He certainly likes his lemons and hates dogs.

[MIXONE]

i've owned many of his not recommended cars over the decades and the one car he seems to love is a copy of the austin cambridge I owned as a first car.It looked like a brick,handled like a brick and went only slightly faster then a brick.Easy as to fix on the side of the road with a nail file a crescent and your girlfriend's panty hose but still a pos.Just like his opinions.