Starting a kids grade in Wellington

[all4A50s]

I'm keen to start a grade for 8 - 12 year olds to ride in that happens every time there is a meet in Wgtn so they can develop their riding skills and am wanting other bucketeers ideas for setting this up, running them and who wants to help with organising it.

I find it strange that kids can enter motocross events from about 4 years but not in road racing. I'm a firm believer there needs to be the opportunity for kids to be involved (instead of standing around) and would increase bucket numbers with some of the parents also getting into this fine sport.

Here's what suggestions have been made;
For the first lap they follow another bucket around the track. Followed by completing 3-5 laps on their own, which is started with a flag start.

They work towards getting a certificate of completion, which they get at the end of the year.

They have strict rules about passing each other, i.e., no passing in turns and must pass on the other side of the track.

Their bikes need to be scrutineered.

Their gear needs to consist of at least non-laced boots, body armour/back protector, a good jacket, riding gloves and full face helmet

I know the current minimum age is 13 to race according to MNZ rules. This grade wouldn't be racing but where they can learn and develop their riding skills.

[CookMySock]

I find it strange that kids can enter motocross events from about 4 years but not in road racing.Well they can ride minimoto just fine. Pocket bikes are an ideal step for littlies toward bucket racing.

Before I got my kids started in minimoto I took a trip to wellington to scope over the bucket scene. I was well impressed, but sadly there just isnt the activity up here, and we have minimoto right across town.

I am just as surprised there is no minimoto in the wellington area, as there are no buckets up in the bay of plenty.

We have an event this weekend - come up and have a look.

Steve

[Trudes]

We could develop C grade further I guess, but if we're turning it into a proper race class for kids, they'd have to be charged an entry fee.
Also if we're at Kaitoke with the Karts I don't think we can expect them to accomodate us running a class for 4 kids to ride about, so it may have to be left as a Slipway thing, or if we do it at Bucket Only days at Kaitoke, which are going the way this year of being run under MNZ rules, they will need a licence or day licence to cover liabilty insurance etc.
Just some things to think about, we'd really have to see what numbers there are interested in regularly turning up, no point running a proper class for 3 kids, may as well leave it as C grade piss about time and let the kids loose on the track for 10mins and not get all serious with it.

[Kendog]

You should have a chat to Andrew A about his son and how he progressed over the last couple of years.

There does seem to be a gap at the young age bracket end of road racing, but I am not convinced bucket racing is the right venue to solve this (especially not at Kaitoke). From what I have seen and heard, none of the other areas in NZ run kids like this at buckets.


Well they can ride minimoto just fine. Pocket bikes are an ideal step for littlies toward bucket racing.
I am not sure what minimotos are, but this may be a better option.

[CookMySock]

I am not sure what minimotos are, but this may be a better option.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edgecumbe+minimoto

They're cheap (~$250 brand new), plenty quick for littlies (50-70km/hr), easy to maintain, parts cost almost nothing and are available brand new.

Steve

[Trudes]

Another option is to become a member of the Kart club, buy a key for the year and take your kids up to play on the track on your time. It's way more fun, they'll learn heaps by going round and round for hours usually without having to worry about anyone else around, best time to teach them the things they need to know.

[Skunk]

Another option is to become a member of the Kart club, buy a key for the year and take your kids up to play on the track on your time. It's way more fun, they'll learn heaps by going round and round for hours usually without having to worry about anyone else around, best time to teach them the things they need to know.
Best idea so far I think.

[Kickaha]

From what I have seen and heard, none of the other areas in NZ run kids like this at buckets.

That's because the minimum age is 13 for Buckets

[jasonu]

Better off to get them appropriate sized dirt bikes and go bush. They will learn bike control and all that good stuff in a safe(r) environment ie soft ground. If you put them on a race track to soon and something bad happens...

[CookMySock]

If you put them on a race track to soon and something bad happens...Nar we have seven year olds in full safety gear going down all the time and no harm done.

edit: I think there is much more opportunity for injury off-road actually.

To my knowledge, we have the only 6-9 y/o class racing motorcycles on tarseal in NZ. Why not set your own up? We'll help.

Steve

[all4A50s]

Better off to get them appropriate sized dirt bikes and go bush. They will learn bike control and all that good stuff in a safe(r) environment ie soft ground. If you put them on a race track to soon and something bad happens...

I do agree in most cases except my two consider speed humps going off road and have made a rather good point, on the track they can see where they are going and any obstacles they have to navigate.

I do like the idea of getting a key. Who do i talk to and what are the costs?

[Buckets4Me]

we use to let them ride around after the racing had finished but I think the kart guys put a stop to that up here
(something to do with a plonker on a big bike 250+ racing around the track during the week without signing any forms)
now we cant even test our bikes unless it's a practice day

[Trudes]

I do like the idea of getting a key. Who do i talk to and what are the costs?

Read this (http://203.167.191.27/?q=club-info/joining/joining) and I would suggest sending an email to club@kartsportwellington.co.nz and explain you are a bucket bike rider and wish to enquire about beoming an associate member and purchasing a key to the track. They'll send you all the info, pays to get a family membership then your kids are covered by membership also if they are going to ride on the track if you get a key. You also get a discount on raceday entry fees, so well worth it.
Just remember to abide by the club rules when you're out there, we really don't want to lose the track due to broken rules or carelessness (ie. not locking the gate properly or letting people ride on the track who aren't covered, unprotected bikes etc).

[all4A50s]

Muchly appreciated. Id like to see the kids have a turn while we are there though. How about at lunch time when the track isn't being used?

[Trudes]

That's not really our call, you'd have to ask the Kart Club officials if they'd mind that on Kart days.

[Drogen Omen]

i see this thread was last edited in 2004 but thought i would give it a go...

I'm interested in getting my son into racing.

he's only 1 year old at the moment but would like to get all the info so i can decide if its a viable sport to get him into when he's older (6, 7 or 8).

what clubs are available?
where to race?
what are the rules?
what ages do you start from?
what bikes do you get?
how much are the bikes?

[Dutchee]

No helpy on anything you're asking about. But thread was from early this year - you're looking at the wrong side as to when a thread was started and noticing the joining date ;) hehe
I thought I was going mad as I was sure I'd read the thread this year, but then again, time flies.

We did want to buy a bike (offroad) for Henk's god-daughter, but at age 3, she's not really interested.

[all4A50s]

i see this thread was last edited in 2004 but thought i would give it a go...

I'm interested in getting my son into racing.

he's only 1 year old at the moment but would like to get all the info so i can decide if its a viable sport to get him into when he's older (6, 7 or 8).

what clubs are available?
where to race?
what are the rules?
what ages do you start from?
what bikes do you get?
how much are the bikes?

Hi Drogan,
I started this thread earlier this year. But things went custard. PM me and I'll go through with you some options.

[Bert]

i see this thread was last edited in 2004 but thought i would give it a go...

I'm interested in getting my son into racing.

he's only 1 year old at the moment but would like to get all the info so i can decide if its a viable sport to get him into when he's older (6, 7 or 8).

what clubs are available?
where to race?
what are the rules?
what ages do you start from?
what bikes do you get?
how much are the bikes?

Drogen.
try contacting someone from the following website and see what they have to offer:
http://www.nzmmrc.co.nz

I did notice that they had wellington kart track on there list of resources so maybe they can put you in touch with other people in your neck of the woods.

it could be a suitable stepping stone??

[Drogen Omen]

lol... guess i was looking at the wrong date... hahaha

its a bit sad that there isn't much in terms of little league motorsports in wellington.

what sort of issues did you run into all4A50s?

if there is no minimoto club in wellington by the time my son is 6-7 years of age then i'll probs just join the wellington kartclub and take him to it on weekends to have a ride around the track.

think one of those Pocket Rocket bikes would be perfect.

full leathers and proper motorbike boots would be a must for safety...

they are pretty cheap.

this one's only $400
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Pocket-pit-bikes/auction-333422050.htm

these are a bit more expensive
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Pocket-pit-bikes/auction-333507352.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Pocket-pit-bikes/auction-335424507.htm

[Henk]

They way the MNZ rules are structured makes it a lot easier to get the really young ones into mini motocross. Not sure how that works in Wellington but they seem to be pretty active elsewhere. To race buckets I think the very youngest age is 13, could be wrong. RDJase may be able to elaborate on this.

[Str8 Jacket]

They way the MNZ rules are structured makes it a lot easier to get the really young ones into mini motocross. Not sure how that works in Wellington but they seem to be pretty active elsewhere. To race buckets I think the very youngest age is 13, could be wrong. RDJase may be able to elaborate on this.

Yeah, something like that. Pacific Club, Hastings cater for children (younger than MNZ allow). They have practice sessions with only them out there but no racing, its a good learning to race environment but they would need to know how to ride first at least.... :)

[ellipsis]

....dirt bikes teach them the skills they need to be able to call on ....

[Bert]

....dirt bikes teach them the skills they need to be able to call on ....

very true.:yes:

[Hiflyer]

Another option is to become a member of the Kart club, buy a key for the year and take your kids up to play on the track on your time. It's way more fun, they'll learn heaps by going round and round for hours usually without having to worry about anyone else around, best time to teach them the things they need to know.

Can you do that at Mount Wellington!?

[RDjase]

They way the MNZ rules are structured makes it a lot easier to get the really young ones into mini motocross. Not sure how that works in Wellington but they seem to be pretty active elsewhere. To race buckets I think the very youngest age is 13, could be wrong. RDJase may be able to elaborate on this.

13 is the age thay can start racing properly as a Junior road racer.


There is a "Young Junior Road Racing" Its for 10 to 13 and I think it said you can use PW50 anr JR50 style bikes with road tyres from what I can make out from the very vaugly written rules. Maybe they have been changed and make more sense than when I checked them out a few years ago

I will try and find them and post a link/rules and see what what everbody thinks they mean

[RDjase]

13 is the age thay can start racing properly as a Junior road racer.


There is a "Young Junior Road Racing" Its for 10 to 13 and sounds like you can use PW50 anr JR50 style bikes with road tyres from what I can make out from the very vaugly written rules

I will try and find them and post a link/rules and see what what everbody thinks they mean

15.2.3 Junior competitors age shall be from and including the eighth birthday until the
seventeenth birthday. Young Junior Road race riders from their 10th birthday until
their 13th birthday shall be allowed to compete in the Young Junior road race class.
Junior competitors age shall be from and including the eight birthday until the
seventeenth birthday.
Junior riders that are eligible to race in Senior Road Race events may continue to race
as a Junior in Motocross events up until the date of their 17th birthday.
Junior’s 13 years and over shall be allowed to compete in miniature road racing
150cc Streetstock, Classic (23.3) and Post Classic (25.6). In special cases approval may
be granted by the Board on an individual basis for 125 GP class. The basis for this
approval will be a recommendation from a current top level rider who shall commit
to act as mentor to the junior rider until the rider is eligible for a senior licence. All
riders are to wear a high visibility vest over their leathers for the first events at which
they compete. Proof of these events will be from entries in their log book.

http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2010_MoMS_Chapter_15_Junior_Mini_Sport.pdf

15.17.2 Young Junior Road race competitors are required to have competition licences.
Applications for these licences will follow the same system to that for junior licences
including using the same application form Refer rule 15-2-1.
15.17.3 Motorcycle technical specifications.
15.17.3.1 Solo motorcycles shall have the following capacities F5 2 stroke engine only (rule
24.2.1 only 8.00 hp maximum). Measured at back wheel.
15.17.3.2 Engines must be derived from a non-competition motorcycles and produce less than
8.00 HP measured at the back wheel. Machines may be impounded and checked at
the discretion of the Steward. Motocross, road racing, enduro and go-kart motors and
transmission parts are not permitted. All engines must be naturally aspirated.
15.17.3.3 All machines must be fitted with an operational tether kill switch. The tether kill
switch must not be fitted in such a way that may be over ridden and must be
attached to the rider.
15.17.3.4 Circuits – All racing for this class will be conducted on circuits with a maximum
average speed of 40 kph and a maximum speed of up to 60 kph. Circuits will
generally be those utilized by Go Karts, closed industrial type car parks. Racing for the
class is specifically prohibited from Pukekohe Raceway, Centenial Park, Manfeild,
Ruapuna, Levels and Teretonga in their normal configuration. If the above circuits
can safely be modified or altered to accommodate the 40kph average and the 60kph
maximum speed to the stewards satisfaction then these circuits may be used.
15.17.3.4a When a young junior road race competitor has completed ten events, as recorded
in their competition licence book they may apply to the steward to be allowed to race
where the maximum speed of 60kph is relaxed and a maximum of 90kph will apply.
If the steward deems that this rider requires more time at the lower speed maximum
then the rider must stay at that level until the steward is satisfied the rider may
progress.
15.18 Riders under 13yrs of age shall not be allowed to passenger or ride a sidecar.
15.18.1 Riders over 10yrs and under 13yrs can only race against riders with in this age
bracket.
15.19 There shall be no Island or New Zealand Championships at all; this age group is for
club racing and learning skills only.


I think there is more info in the MNZ rules about somewere too

[all4A50s]

lol... guess i was looking at the wrong date... hahaha

its a bit sad that there isn't much in terms of little league motorsports in wellington.

what sort of issues did you run into all4A50s?

if there is no minimoto club in wellington by the time my son is 6-7 years of age then i'll probs just join the wellington kartclub and take him to it on weekends to have a ride around the track.

think one of those Pocket Rocket bikes would be perfect.

Yes it is very sad there isn't any motorsort outside motocross for the little ones.

I got as far as talking to the Kart club about what the kids would be have to wear. Then someone must have contacted them and told them that for the kids to be on the track they had to be at least 13 years old. My understanding this is incorrect, you have to be at least 13 years old TO RACE. If the sessions that they go out in are treated as training sessions there is no minimum age (like they do in Hawkes Bay).

When there is a bucket meet at Slipway kids of pretty much any age can go out in C grade with some basic rules like no passing when cornering. These have worked well with no real problems. I am keen to have sessions at Kaitoke with kids (run separately if needed) as training sessions for kids. From what I have seen there is a small amount kids are doing motocross as there is no other option for them.

The two issues seem to be:
1; THere is a firm belief that the kids are likely to get seriously hurt if they crash. While there is a chance of this happening I think anyone is safer on riding on a track than in a motocross event. If the kids are wearing proper gear (leathers or riding gear) with good footwear, gloves, full face helmet they are well protected.

The speeds the kids could reach (if small 4-strokes were used like CRF50s) is nominal and they are in an environment which is designed for crashing while riding on a track. Against riding in a motocross event where they are riding on irregular surface with hard objects around them (like trees).

2; People don't want to give up their track time (even when no one is using the track like lunch time).

If you want to look at setting something up I more than happy to help out and even have some suitable bikes for the wee ones to use (and they can have throttle governors).

[richban]

2; People don't want to give up their track time (even when no one is using the track like lunch time)..

Bullshit. x 20

[RDjase]

Yes it is very sad there isn't any motorsort outside motocross for the little ones.

I got as far as talking to the Kart club about what the kids would be have to wear. Then someone must have contacted them and told them that for the kids to be on the track they had to be at least 13 years old. My understanding this is incorrect, you have to be at least 13 years old TO RACE. If the sessions that they go out in are treated as training sessions there is no minimum age (like they do in Hawkes Bay).

When there is a bucket meet at Slipway kids of pretty much any age can go out in C grade with some basic rules like no passing when cornering. These have worked well with no real problems. I am keen to have sessions at Kaitoke with kids (run separately if needed) as training sessions for kids. From what I have seen there is a small amount kids are doing motocross as there is no other option for them.

The two issues seem to be:
1; THere is a firm belief that the kids are likely to get seriously hurt if they crash. While there is a chance of this happening I think anyone is safer on riding on a track than in a motocross event. If the kids are wearing proper gear (leathers or riding gear) with good footwear, gloves, full face helmet they are well protected.

The speeds the kids could reach (if small 4-strokes were used like CRF50s) is nominal and they are in an environment which is designed for crashing while riding on a track. Against riding in a motocross event where they are riding on irregular surface with hard objects around them (like trees).

2; People don't want to give up their track time (even when no one is using the track like lunch time).

If you want to look at setting something up I more than happy to help out and even have some suitable bikes for the wee ones to use (and they can have throttle governors).

My son used to use his JR50 with one tooth bigger front sprocket, scooter tyres and nylon, catch can ect

Still have that bike, it has knobblys again and my mates kids are using it but it would only take 30 mins to be kart track ready again. Tyler had heaps of fun and learning on it

It would be great to see our future road racers out there at lunch times/ Training sessions

[RDjase]

Yes it is very sad there isn't any motorsort outside motocross for the little ones.

I got as far as talking to the Kart club about what the kids would be have to wear. Then someone must have contacted them and told them that for the kids to be on the track they had to be at least 13 years old. My understanding this is incorrect, you have to be at least 13 years old TO RACE. If the sessions that they go out in are treated as training sessions there is no minimum age (like they do in Hawkes Bay).



You could try showing the Kart Club the Young junior road racing rules.


15.2.3 Junior competitors age shall be from and including the eighth birthday until the
seventeenth birthday. Young Junior Road race riders from their 10th birthday until
their 13th birthday shall be allowed to compete in the Young Junior road race class.

[all4A50s]

Bullshit. x 20

Not so. I think if memory serves me right this was what was said,
"We don't get alot of track time as it is."

[all4A50s]

You could try showing the Kart Club the Young junior road racing rules.

When I did point the age out to them they simply stopped responding to my emails.

My feeling is if they saw a session just with the kids they might be more inclined to revisit the idea.

[all4A50s]

My son used to use his JR50 with one tooth bigger front sprocket, scooter tyres and nylon, catch can ect

Still have that bike, it has knobblys again and my mates kids are using it but it would only take 30 mins to be kart track ready again. Tyler had heaps of fun and learning on it

It would be great to see our future road racers out there at lunch times/ Training sessions

My daughters have been using a CRF50 with scooter tyres. We just put the bike into top gear and off they go. It's still slow but gets up enough speed to put a smile on their face.

I have been talking to both my daughters (aged 9 & 12) about this and they really like the idea of being able to do laps while not racing.

The original idea I had was 6 laps. First lap they get paired up with a rider or follow one bike as a group so they have a very basic idea of how to get around the track. They then line up on the start finish straight and get a flagged start (just as nice thing to do). This is followed by them doing five laps at their own pace, only being allowed to pass on a straight. To reinforce that it is not a race they would get a certificate at the end of the year for participation, even placings for the most times they have been out. This would involve other riders helping out with the first lap and marshaling. Yep still like it.

[Buckets4Me]

My daughters have been using a CRF50 with scooter tyres. We just put the bike into top gear and off they go. It's still slow but gets up enough speed to put a smile on their face.

we use a 9 hp rg50 full race trim and rs125 slicks
kids are 11 and 12
just let them putter around after the raceing is over

also a gp winning fxr150 (f4) has been used for a 12 year old

street magic would be a good starting point to (no gear changes)

[richban]

Not so. I think if memory serves me right this was what was said,
"We don't get alot of track time as it is."

Bayden is running the slipway as a rider development and testing sort of event. perfect for kids. I have seen him put a lot of time into training younger riders and he is good at it. Track time is there if you want it. It's not a big deal. Kids are on track and learning to ride. The problem with Kaitoki is that we share the track with the karts and track time is at a premium. As you saw with the bike only day it was all about getting new riders young and old into the sport. We all want to see it grow. I think as a group we have encouraged young riders all the way. Anyone ever here of a young rider called Glen Skachill. Have you also noticed the young speedster that won the B grade this year. Buckets has been supporting young racers in wellington for a long time. If you want to develop young riders you can.

[koba]

I think as a group we have encouraged young riders all the way.

I think there was quite alot of resistance from some quarters more recently.

[jasonu]

Not so. I think if memory serves me right this was what was said,
"We don't get alot of track time as it is."

I agree x 20!!!
There is limited time as it is. If (when) there are prangs that further limits time. The first time little Johnny falls and snaps a collar bone and the authorities find out there will be hell to pay. Either organise a seperate day for the kids or, as everyone else had to, wait until the age of 13. It didn't do Nathaniel Diprose any harm to reach the appropriate age before takeing to the track.

[all4A50s]

If there is such a big concern (about kids getting hurt) then why doesn't it seem to be an issue in motocross? For the life of me I can not work out why this is an issue for the track but not (or at least an accepted risk) in motocross. And how would anyone lose track time if it is done during the lunch break when no one is using the track?

[fi5hy]

George have you fallen off a bike on the dirt yet? (NO) ? your challenge now is to get a dirt bike and have a crash at 50 km on the dirt then do the same on the asphalt and show me the difference in injury's. (if yes) forget this post.

For the record I have no problem with the kids having a go but when we have no say into how the kart club runs THERE day I think this will be best left to the Slipway events were we have FULL control of the day and how we run it.

two cents sent.

[Drogen Omen]

might be time for someone to build a private track then.

wouldn't need much room.

[all4A50s]

George have you fallen off a bike on the dirt yet? (NO) ? your challenge now is to get a dirt bike and have a crash at 50 km on the dirt then do the same on the asphalt and show me the difference in injury's. (if yes) forget this post.

For the record I have no problem with the kids having a go but when we have no say into how the kart club runs THERE day I think this will be best left to the Slipway events were we have FULL control of the day and how we run it.

two cents sent.

I was thinking more of the objects that you can hit when comparing the two forms of racing. And yes I have fallen on the dirt at speed and the pain levels were about the same for one and worse for the other (my back found a hidden rock).

I agree with keeping it at The Slipway at present, it works very well there.


might be time for someone to build a private track then.

wouldn't need much room.

Had I the money I have always thought a motorcycle testing track near/in Wellington (with a workshop incl a Dyno) would be great. There is some great land on the Coast Road just south of Wainui would be ideal.

[Drogen Omen]

Had I the money I have always thought a motorcycle testing track near/in Wellington (with a workshop incl a Dyno) would be great. There is some great land on the Coast Road just south of Wainui would be ideal.

i wonder if there is some sort of government grant of charity that could help out...

[all4A50s]

i wonder if there is some sort of government grant of charity that could help out...

If the National Government's past cut backs of funding are anything to go by maybe one of their CEO mates could give up 2-3 weeks salary to pay for it, they earn enough. Or are we to rely on the trickle down theory they still seem to believe in.

[RDjase]

If the National Government's past cut backs of funding are anything to go by maybe one of their CEO mates could give up 2-3 weeks salary to pay for it, they earn enough. Or are we to rely on the trickle down theory they still seem to believe in.

ACC could pay for a "Rider training track"

ACC just did a rider training day at Roys Hill (which got rained out) and they are spending money on rider training. Wellington is a big area with alot of registered bikes paying high ACC fees.

Got no idea about how to go around finding out more but it would be great if they could do something

[koba]

ACC just did a rider training day at Roys Hill (which got rained out)

So people don't need to know how to ride in the rain to stay safe on a bike?!

[RDjase]

So people don't need to know how to ride in the rain to stay safe on a bike?!

The day wasnt that bad but the ACC lady cancelled it, We were keen on doing it/ lending our bikes. We had our buckets there for the public to use for training, and the start finish straight was setup with cones for braking and slow riding on your own bike. (were using to old short track link for the buckets)

ACC lady a bit to cautios about anyone falling off at something they were running, You could see the ACC form "Fell off bike at ACC training"

I tgink they will run another one early next year

[richban]

i wonder if there is some sort of government grant of charity that could help out...

imagine if we got the money the track design alone would take 2 years to sign off.

[Geriatric]

imagine if we got the money the track design alone would take 2 years to sign off.

You get the land and the money in Wellington City area and I'll design it and supervise construction for free. Used ot be a roading design Engineer

[richban]

You get the land and the money in Wellington City area and I'll design it and supervise construction for free. Used ot be a roading design Engineer

Sounds like a plan. Who is good at writing funding proposals?