Morons on Grays Road, Pauatahanui yesterday

[Beemer]

Driving the Vette back from a barbecue in Upper Hutt yesterday afternoon we were overtaken by two riders at the end of the passing lane at the bottom of Haywards Hill. One plate started with 24, the other had (I think) UNA or INA at the end. No problem there, although one rider (the 24 plate) got a real wobble on as he went around the last corner at high speed.

We get to the shops just before Grays Road and both riders are stopped outside the petrol station. I assumed they would head over the Paekakariki Hill Road, but both roared past us along Grays Road and I wasn't impressed. The first rider went past us in a relatively safe spot, on a short straight. The second (again, the 24 plate) acted like a total tosser, pulling out to overtake us at high speed on double yellow lines on a windy section, with limited visibility and oncoming vehicles. He just managed to get back in in time, but again he got a real wobble on and we were positive he was going to come off right in front of us. We were behind him for a short distance and he got the wobbles on every corner as well as on some of the straights. He then overtook other vehicles and disappeared.

Even my husband, who is a far more experienced rider than I am, said he was sure the guy was going to come off as he was riding like a total tosser. So if anyone knows Mr 24, tell him he's a plonker. It's idiots like these two who give motorcyclists a bad name. There was a lot of traffic heading in both directions, it's a section of road with double yellow lines and a speed limit of 80kms and we were travelling at that speed when they overtook us. The first rider could at least handle his bike but the second rider either needs new tyres or a bit of a wake-up call. If I'd got the rest of his plate number, I would have reported his idiotic riding behaviour.

[gwigs]

Bloody Mormons ,they should stick to push bikes I reckon...wish they would stop trying to convert me...them and the J.W.s...
Oops you meant Morons ,silly me.

[Beemer]

Ha ha! If they had been Mormons, I would have knocked them off their bikes you silly boy!

[Insanity_rules]

Any idea what types bike they had?

[Nasty]

I really think that they have not taken a lot of notice of anything those riders, at least one death in the past few months on a bike and multiple car accidents ... these are well documented through the press ... can't really see how they missed it. Overall, if you don't know how to ride ... ride like a prick is not a great way to learn .. let alone to learn control of a bike.

[huff3r]

I really think that they have not taken a lot of notice of anything those riders, at least one death in the past few months on a bike and multiple car accidents ... these are well documented through the press ... can't really see how they missed it. Overall, if you don't know how to ride ... ride like a prick is not a great way to learn .. let alone to learn control of a bike.

Yep, they certainly arent helping it lose its title of NZ's most dangerous road!

[Str8 Jacket]

Yep, they certainly arent helping it lose its title of NZ's most dangerous road!

A road cannot be classed as dangerous on its own.... ;)

[Beemer]

Any idea what types bike they had?

Large, late model sports bikes. Didn't get much chance to see makes or models as they were behind the shrubs by the petrol station when stopped and then not in our vision for long when they went past. Both riders wearing dark cordura clothing. Couldn't believe where one overtook us - would have been a dumb spot even if there weren't any cars coming towards him. I was amazed he managed to stay on the bike as the back was twitching like crazy. We thought he was a goner in the passing lanes but that obviously didn't give him a fright as he carried on the same way. Think he had an M and a G in his plate too.

Agree that the road isn't dangerous, it's the idiots who use it who are! These two certainly weren't showing it the respect it deserves though.

[Fatjim]

I'm gonna say this again.

PERSPECTIVE

What looks dangerous from 30 feet away looks totally safe from right there. this is even more pronounced when sitting about two feet lower in a car.

BTW, did the road wind back on forth, or was it blowing a gail?

[Cloggy]

Well there you go. I didn't know Grays Road was classed as a dangerous road. I certainly have never felt it was dangerous or a difficult piece of road.
TV3 news did a story on it complete with a bit of a video. http://www.3news.co.nz/The-most-dangerous-stretch-of-road-in-NZ/tabid/209/articleID/133463/Default.aspx

[huff3r]

Well there you go. I didn't know Grays Road was classed as a dangerous road. I certainly have never felt it was dangerous or a difficult piece of road.
TV3 news did a story on it complete with a bit of a video.

Yeah, it's a bit crazy isn't it? I drive that road frequently, and the other side of the inlet i drive everyday, and it's amazing how many people travel like idiots over it.

I guess being so used to it, i don't see how daunting it is for a first timer, but so many people travel ridiculously slow around there, and at the same time so many people travel at dangerously fast speeds! The speed limit seems pretty much spot on with what should be the maximum speed, any faster is dangerous, but it is still reasonably easy to travel the limit most of the way, only slowing out of respect for the numbered corners...

But theres absolutely no reason to be attempting to pass people travelling AT the speed limit around there, thats just arrogance and insanity!

[MIXONE]

I too travel this road on a regular basis both on 4 wheels and 2.I quite like it but still remember the first time over it when it was 100kph and I was trying to keep up with a mate who lived in Whitby.Very intimidating with not a lot of room for error.

[Beemer]

I'm gonna say this again.

PERSPECTIVE

What looks dangerous from 30 feet away looks totally safe from right there. this is even more pronounced when sitting about two feet lower in a car.

BTW, did the road wind back on forth, or was it blowing a gail?

It was a windy road as in twisty - but it was also quite windy as in blowing a gale (blowing a Gail is something you may do personally...).

We were in a sports car, so not quite the laid-back family saloon, and it was occupied by two motorcyclists, one (my husband) with more than 30 years' riding experience. Trust me, if he thought they were riding like total tossers, then it's a pretty safe bet they were. Overtaking on double yellow lines in the path of oncoming cars, doing WAY more than the speed limit for that road AND nearly losing it is dumb behaviour in my view. And he was right on top of us when he overtook, not 30 feet away.

I have driven and ridden that road regularly for about 23 years and while I don't think the road is inherently dangerous, it has very little margin for error. The sea/inlet on one side and mostly a bank on the other. Visibility is not that great, which is probably why it has yellow lines for most of it. The limit of 80kph is about right - there are few parts where 100kms would be safe.

[red mermaid]

I think Beemer you and your husband have just gained a small bit of understanding of what it is to be in the boots of a police officer when you see something driving dangerously, stop and speak to them, and tell them they are to be prosecuted.

All of a sudden you are mistaken and it is all someones elses fault.

[pritch]

I think Beemer you and your husband have just gained a small bit of understanding of what it is to be in the boots of a police officer when you see something driving dangerously, stop and speak to them, and tell them they are to be prosecuted.

All of a sudden you are mistaken and it is all someones elses fault.

Eh? You lost me there somewhere.

I travel that road only infrequently but have enjoyed it when I did, although it is better when the tide is in... There has been some publicity about it of late and I was assuming that Andy Knackerhead and his buddies at the LTSA were softening us up for a reduction in the speed limit. After all, the northern access to Wellington is nearly all 80kph now they must be looking for somewhere else to impose a new restriction.

[Beemer]

I think Beemer you and your husband have just gained a small bit of understanding of what it is to be in the boots of a police officer when you see something driving dangerously, stop and speak to them, and tell them they are to be prosecuted.

All of a sudden you are mistaken and it is all someones elses fault.

Yeah, sorry, you've lost me too! Are you saying that every police officer who pulls over a motorcyclist for what he/she perceives to be dangerous riding behaviour is in the wrong? Or are you obtusely trying to say that every motorcyclist who ever gets pulled over (the KB law) is wrongly targeted by people who wouldn't know amazingly skillful riding if it jumped up and bit them on the arse?

'... something driving dangerously' - um, things don't drive dangerously, people do.

Or is this a dig at us for something you think we've personally done to you (whoever you are)?

[Fatjim]

It was a windy road as in twisty - but it was also quite windy as in blowing a gale (blowing a Gail is something you may do personally...).

We were in a sports car, so not quite the laid-back family saloon, and it was occupied by two motorcyclists, one (my husband) with more than 30 years' riding experience. Trust me, if he thought they were riding like total tossers, then it's a pretty safe bet they were. Overtaking on double yellow lines in the path of oncoming cars, doing WAY more than the speed limit for that road AND nearly losing it is dumb behaviour in my view. And he was right on top of us when he overtook, not 30 feet away.

I have driven and ridden that road regularly for about 23 years and while I don't think the road is inherently dangerous, it has very little margin for error. The sea/inlet on one side and mostly a bank on the other. Visibility is not that great, which is probably why it has yellow lines for most of it. The limit of 80kph is about right - there are few parts where 100kms would be safe.

Unless your blokes 'vette a modern one it is not a sports car, it is touring car, and having said that, not a very good one. Thay also place the driver low, much lowe than a motorcyclist, and this often means hundreds of meters less in visability. There's many places on Greys road I wouldn't consider ovetaking in a car, regardless of the power, because I can't see round corners that I would in a bike, even a GN250, because I can see round corners.

In fact, I when i drive that road I rarely get to 80k, the posted speed limit. But on a bike, I often get to 180k, but not where it will kill me.

PS, having more than 30 years of riding experience alone does not qualify him to make that judgement. Unless you ride aggressively, you are unlikely to be in a postition to judge. I know its a bit of a quandry, but thats life. I kow many riders with many more k's under the belt than I (Most of them are old and decrepid), yet we ride completely differently. I know many riders with far less k's under the belt than me who are safer than me at high speeds, because they ride that way.

[Beemer]

Unless your blokes 'vette a modern one it is not a sports car, it is touring car, and having said that, not a very good one. Thay also place the driver low, much lowe than a motorcyclist, and this often means hundreds of meters less in visability. There's many places on Greys road I wouldn't consider ovetaking in a car, regardless of the power, because I can't see round corners that I would in a bike, even a GN250, because I can see round corners.

In fact, I when i drive that road I rarely get to 80k, the posted speed limit. But on a bike, I often get to 180k, but not where it will kill me.

PS, having more than 30 years of riding experience alone does not qualify him to make that judgement. Unless you ride aggressively, you are unlikely to be in a postition to judge. I know its a bit of a quandry, but thats life. I kow many riders with many more k's under the belt than I (Most of them are old and decrepid), yet we ride completely differently. I know many riders with far less k's under the belt than me who are safer than me at high speeds, because they ride that way.

For a start, it's not my 'bloke's 'vette' it's actually mine. We may have been lower down than the rider but I don't need to be on a bike to be unimpressed at him overtaking on double yellow lines at a far greater speed than the posted speed limit, at 4pm on a Saturday afternoon with HEAPS of traffic heading in both directions AND watching his back tyre wobble all over the road EVERY time he powered on.

My husband is a bloody experienced rider, on and off road, and the majority of people who meet him (and he'll hate me saying this) are impressed with his riding ability. But then he doesn't ride like a tosser or boast about the speeds he travels so I suppose as far as you're concerned he's a loser.

If you're riding at 180kph around Grays Road then sorry, you're a dickhead and one day you will come to grief. Being a good rider is NOT just about speed.

I don't come on here moaning about every bike that overtakes me at speed - hell, I've done it myself at times. What I do moan about - and feel I am justified in doing so - is seeing dangerous behaviour from TWO motorcyclists who didn't seem to give a flying fuck about anyone else on THEIR road. Sorry if that upsets you. Trust me, if I'd got his rego properly, I wouldn't bother posting on here, I'd report him.

[mangell6]

From the description of what occured it is merely another rider trying to keep up with his mate and pushing the envelope, instead of waiting for a better passing opportunity, happens all the time on the Rimas and elsewhere. I just shake my head and believe in Darwinian Theory. It is a pity that sometimes when riding the gene pool that others are affected.

Greys road is not dangerous, people need to learn to DRIVE and TURN the steering wheel and JUDGE SPEED and DISTANCES.

[Beemer]

I totally agree. The front rider wasn't exactly riding within the law, but he appeared to be able to handle it, whereas the second rider was close to his limits and we fully expected him to come off. And what would the headlines have read? "Dangerous road claims another victim" or "Motorcyclist loses life in high speed crash" - instead of the truth "Karma pays back diot trying to catch up with his mate".

That road is pretty busy even when it isn't a holiday (it was New Year's Day) and overtaking everything in sight was fairly stupid. On a wide road with good visibility and an escape route, not a problem, but on a narrow winding road with nowhere to go on either side if anything goes wrong, it's crazy.

[Fatjim]

Beemer, to me you come accross as a moaning nana, and name calling ain't helping much.

[pritch]

Shit oh dear! Some of the replies to this thread seemed rather startling... But then I remembered we're pretty close to the full moon - again.
10/10 to the respondent that mentioned that #24 was likely playing catch up and was out of his depth.

[Ratti]

Im with Beemer on this one. the road is not inherently dangerous. Its a tricky ride if one is not too experienced. I have had occasion to wonder if me and my venerable Kwaka would end up in the drink. ONly the idea of acute embarrassment at having to admit to same saved me.
a fishtail wiggle would indicate one of two things, either the rider is outside his/her experience level or the bike is not set up properly. either way, its just plain lunacy to overtake on double yellow lines. there are bugger all parts of that road that are ok to overtake on. I was travelling that road on New Years day and it was really busy. A constant stream of traffic combined with a nutcase is asking for trouble. Just as well the riders angels can fly as fast as s/he was riding...

[Fatjim]

either way, its just plain lunacy to overtake on double yellow lines. there are bugger all parts of that road that are ok to overtake on. .

Mate, that is just plain bullshit. I count 7/8 straights before the hill that are pefectly acceptable to overtake, even on a low powered bike. Add to that the many corners that you might, with the advantage of greater visability, with some speed on quite happily overtake.

As for wobble, yeah, it sounds suss. Could also be the guy doesn't move around smoothly, or he's a lard ass like me.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Mate, that is just plain bullshit. I count 7/8 straights before the hill that are pefectly acceptable to overtake, even on a low powered bike. Add to that the many corners that you might, with the advantage of greater visability, with some speed on quite happily overtake.

As for wobble, yeah, it sounds suss. Could also be the guy doesn't move around smoothly, or he's a lard ass like me.

Not being funny but you are posting from your own experience level and your own bike power. As the bike in question has not been identified and the biker was obviously riding outside of his/ her ability level how can you deem to comment that the issue is bull?

From what I have read the second rider is trying to keep up with a more experienced friend - who is a cock by the sounds of it as he was egging the second rider onto dangerous speeds (for his/ her skill level).

If the owner of xxx24 is reading this - I would seriously consider finding different people to go riding with.

[huff3r]

Mate, that is just plain bullshit. I count 7/8 straights before the hill that are pefectly acceptable to overtake, even on a low powered bike. Add to that the many corners that you might, with the advantage of greater visability, with some speed on quite happily overtake.

As for wobble, yeah, it sounds suss. Could also be the guy doesn't move around smoothly, or he's a lard ass like me.

I'd say thats bullshit personally. I know of two places i could pass on that road. No more, and even those two its only when there is absolutely nothing coming at the start of each stretch. Sure a quick bike could do better, but it is still inhherently dangerous to attempt, particularly if the vehicle in question is travelling at the speed limit. Not only is it dangerous, but rather un-necessary, what gives them the right to travel at speeds such in excess of the limit, potentially putting themselves and others in danger?

I find i am quite happy to sit behind a car doing the speed limit, and they seem to be happy following me at the limit too, so i dont get this whole "I must be in front!" attitude so many people have...

[sinfull]

That road is pretty busy even when it isn't a holiday (it was New Year's Day) and overtaking everything in sight was fairly stupid. On a wide road with good visibility and an escape route, not a problem, but on a narrow winding road with nowhere to go on either side if anything goes wrong, it's crazy.
What colour is ya Vette Beemer ? I don't remember passing ya lol Nah kidding
You guys weren't in town about a week before were ya's , passed one headin north along the passing lanes between paekok and pram and couldn't help but hesitate when i came up beside . A quick thumbs up and carried on , Love to have one of the old vettes in my garage one of these days !

[Ratti]

At the end of the day, we have to share the road with other people. In the event that good manners fail, we have road rules. These twonks were not riding within the rules and not using manners. While I fully support anyones right to risk their own life, I get a bit ratty when same person risks others lives. Who the heck has that right? How many of us have had mates killed by someone elses stupid risktaking? Thats what they were doing.

[CookMySock]

Not being funny but you are posting from your own experience level and your own bike power. As the bike in question has not been identified and the biker was obviously riding outside of his/ her ability level how can you deem to comment that the issue is bull?On the same logic, your judgment of obviously riding outside of his/ her ability level carries no weight either, unless one of you knows something the other does not.

The bottom line is, the road is for use by everyone, not just the elitely experienced. Skilled riders are going to spook others, and slowbies are going to irritate the experienced.

Steve

[Beemer]

Mate, that is just plain bullshit. I count 7/8 straights before the hill that are pefectly acceptable to overtake, even on a low powered bike. Add to that the many corners that you might, with the advantage of greater visability, with some speed on quite happily overtake.

As for wobble, yeah, it sounds suss. Could also be the guy doesn't move around smoothly, or he's a lard ass like me.

Firstly, being passed in the passing lane on Hayward's Hill was fine - it was being passed on DOUBLE YELLOW LINES IN THE PATH OF ONCOMING VEHICLES on the road around the inlet that I feel was ill advised. Even before they double-yellowed most of it, there are certainly very few places around Grays Road where I believe it's safe to pass. Even on a high powered bike being ridden by someone who can handle it. In this instance, the guy riding could NOT handle it. How the hell he managed to stay on while the bike was wobbling all over the place is beyond me. And yes, he was a bit of a lard arse, which made me wonder at first if it was actually you, until I read you were "stoopid, not dangerous" - yeah, right.

Sinfull, it's red, but there is one of similar age that belongs to friends in Paraparaumu so it's likely that's the one you would see along there. Ours is the Stingray shape.

[red mermaid]

Yeah, sorry, you've lost me too! Are you saying that every police officer who pulls over a motorcyclist for what he/she perceives to be dangerous riding behaviour is in the wrong? Or are you obtusely trying to say that every motorcyclist who ever gets pulled over (the KB law) is wrongly targeted by people who wouldn't know amazingly skillful riding if it jumped up and bit them on the arse?

'... something driving dangerously' - um, things don't drive dangerously, people do.

Or is this a dig at us for something you think we've personally done to you (whoever you are)?

No, what Im getting at is when you are out there doing your job, you see someone do something stupid (dangerous), stop them and tell them they are getting a ticket, and then the moaning starts about you not knowing what you are talking about and how it never really happened...and from personal experience I know it does.

[Ratti]

I count 7/8 straights before the hill that are pefectly acceptable to overtake, even on a low powered bike. Add to that the many corners that you might, with the advantage of greater visability, with some speed on quite happily overtake.

Hi Fatjim
Hey Dude., I drove Grays Rd yesterday. I counted 2 places I'd be happy to overtake, 1 that I probably could do it safely if so inclined and 3 that would be out of my comfort zone, but a better rider might consider if the conditions were right. None of them on a double yellow line....

Just out of interest, how fast do you reckon you can cover the road from the intersection at the village to the black and white striped poles at the Plimmerton end? The poles are just before you head uphill into the residential area.

[Fatjim]

I don't know. I never time myself, and on any group ride I'm lucky if I'm mid pack.

And please, there's at least two places I'd overtake if the road was clear and I had the wife and kids in the car! And not many people drive slower than me! so if you're riding a bike and you are THAT scared of overtaking then really, take a nana pill.

As for bleating about double yellow lines. They don't neccessarily indicate relative safety, they indicate where it is illegal to overtake a motorised vehicle.

[Deano]

Funny thread.

180kph is certainly do-able on the first and last straights, and in safety as well.

As for overtaking, fuck me, there's heaps of opportunities if you know what you're doing and your bike has enough power. AND do it safely as well.

[MSTRS]

Funny thread.

180kph is certainly do-able on the first and last straights, and in safety as well.

As for overtaking, fuck me, there's heaps of opportunities if you know what you're doing and your bike has enough power. AND do it safely as well.

Naughty boy...is that all?
And yep...definitely plenty of places. There were plenty 35 years ago when the road was much tighter and the bikes not as quick.

[quickbuck]

They don't neccessarily indicate relative safety, they indicate where it is illegal to overtake a motorised vehicle.

You mean, it is illegal to overtake a motorised vehicle if YOU CROSS OVER THEM....

And Double yellow lines mean nothing more than a single yellow line on your side of the road... apart from usually there is two lots of rumble bits in them now.... I only know that from looking at them up close by the way.

So in reality on a motorcycle you can actually pass along the whole road IF the vehicle you are over taking moves over and gives you enough room to do it safely.
This includes all the other provisos... like not exceeding the speed limit. Of course you are able to overtake with on coming traffic, as there is no way you will cross the yellow... right?
As it happens, I wouldn't though.
No point giving poor grandad coming the other way a heart attach when he sees two vehicles coming at him even if they are in the opposing lane.

As it happens, the traffic I encountered down SH1 on the 2nd was VERY good at pulling over to let me by. Top marks to them all. A friendly wave was always given too.
I passed them while remaining in the lane and didn't need to unleash 100hp and 130dB out the Zorst to get the job done.... so this was much easier for all concerned.

Oh, and those wobbles 24xxx experienced were most likely caused by his compression, and rebound on the shock set too low for the fisting he was giving the throttle.
All throttle movements should be SMOOTH too....

[boomer]

i ride like that every day... u sound like moaning old people.

[Deano]

Naughty boy...is that all?


Oh I'm certainly not advocating that anyone try to do 180kph along there, only that it could be done and in relative safety, if one was so inclined ;)

[riffer]

I ride this road damn near every day (it's part of my daily commute). I'm with Fatjim and Deano on this one; there are a number of places where someone who knows the road and is willing to push it a bit can overtake there.

But if you don't know what you're doing, don't try it. You can easily look like an idiot or hurt yourself on that road.

And yes 180km/hr is definitely achievable on that road (DAMHIK).

[gwigs]

And yes 180km/hr is definitely achievable on that road (DAMHIK).

Be Quiet Katman might be listening....shhhh.:whistle:

[mattian]

*555 their asses or make a formal complaint at the cop shop. To just watch people behave like dickheads in front of you and then do nothing about it, apart from come on here and moan about it is a little weak to be honest.

[Fatjim]

Beemer, you are a rare woman. Not only do you know what colour your car is, but you now the model of it as well!! :chase:!!

But seriously, how long have you been riding? I don't recall you being a noob. Why lean on your partners experience. Girls can ride bikes well too, they're not just good at cleaning them! Get out there and really look at the road while you're on the bike. Test the acceleration, the time exposed on the other side, and how much room you really need. Work on your timing, your planning to overtake, work on your corner speed so you are better setup to slingshot past out of corners. All things that will serve you well on the road. These aren't racing techniques, they are riding techniques.

You'll be suprised. Add to that that the average speed of cars is well under 80kph on that road, and the relative acceleration of your bike will be greatly enhanced.

I think if you think that there are not safe places to overtake on Greys road on a motorbike, whether they are yellowed lined or not shows to me that you ride kinda like you drive, and riding and driving are two very different things.

[Fatjim]

Funny thread.

180kph is certainly do-able on the first and last straights, and in safety as well.

As for overtaking, fuck me, there's heaps of opportunities if you know what you're doing and your bike has enough power. AND do it safely as well.

Can't add bling, so I'm forced to publicly give you a big hug!!! just joking.

Thanks mate, thought I was going insane.

[scumdog]

i ride like that every day... u sound like moaning old people.

Well I suppose even unco spastics are allowed to share the roads...:whistle::devil2:

[MSTRS]

i ride like that every day... u sound like moaning old people.

I'm not worried. At long as I don't smell like old people, all is well in my world...

[MSTRS]

Thanks mate, thought I was going insane.

No chance.
I also recall that road being a LOT narrower all those years ago.

[koba]

OK, Time to confess.
I had my AX100 out to blow the cobwebs off and couldn't quite keep up with Nick, even though he was on his TR50.

[boomer]

Well I suppose even unco spastics are allowed to share the roads...:whistle::devil2:

If you can catch me i'll make u squeal !

[peasea]

For a start, it's not my 'bloke's 'vette' it's actually mine.

Way cool. What year/model is it? Big block, small block? Stick/auto?

[riffer]

If you pick up a licence plate on Grays Rd 18WTL, don't bother using it. I lost it there yesterday, and it's already been cancelled.