Respectful Apology

[James Deuce]

This is very difficult to do, so please bear with me, and try to read the respect into this message in the way I intend it to be read.

Sam's death is a tragedy. There is no doubt about that at all.

A funeral is a way to begin a healing process for the family, close friends, and Sam's close friends.

I almost feel like the KB response is a reaction to our own insecurities about motorcycling in general, and the inherent danger thereof. The Death and Dying process and its subsequent grieving and healing process is not a rational process and proceeds in a different manner for every person experiencing it.

I know that you all mean well, but the death of a young person attracts many emotions, particularly sublimated anger, and I can't help but feel that we may be setting ourselves up as a collective manifestation of the object of that anger.

I personally don't want to be responsible for making a bittersweet occasion more fraught than it needs to be.

I think that the tribute ride on Sunday is appropriate and I will see you there, but I don't feel comfortable attending the funeral.

Those of you who do attend, do so with empathy and compassion, and most of all respect for those who have lost more than we can guess.

[Marknz]

Very logical and well thought out... I have to say that I've had those concerns myself but wouldn't have been able to communicate them as clearly as you have.

[R6_kid]

agreed.


{and the extra stuff so it posts}

[StoneChucker]

Again, something that was nagging in the back of my mind (You are wise Jim!).

Since I'll be wearing biker gear, it may not even be appropriate to attend a funeral. Depending on responses here, maybe a quiet coffee nearby is in order until after, and then join the ride to the cemetery? I'm not sure, I'll attend, or not attend - I don't have strong feelings on either.

Sam knows how we all feel, whatever we do and wherever we do it.

[Biff]

You're not wrong Jim, and your sentiments are understandable. It's in times like these that we all question our mortality and the inherent risks associated with biking.

Although I won’t be there, nor do I proclaim to have known Sam - only Flyin, and this only extended to one or two brief conversations with him here, my thoughts will be with his family and friends, and that extends to the wider KB community.

[scumdog]

Add an apology from me - due to emotion and alcohol I lashed out at WINJA, no excuse but sometimes even us senior members can let things 'get way' on us.

Sorry to all who read that post, inappropriate.

[FROSTY]

I hear ya jim. We all do as we feel best to do.

[BNZ]

I understand what you mean here Jim, and it is a very valid point. It is a very unique situation that we will be in on motorcycles at Sam's funeral. I understand that while Sam's immediate family may have approved and encouraged our attendance, but there is a high chance that other family and friends will not be so welcoming to motorcyclists.
I dont think we can underestimate the amount of respect that courtesy that is required by us on Friday, but Sam would never have wanted his family and friends to hold any ill feeling towards motorcycles, and the riding community. We are attennding this to pay respect to a lost friend, and to let everyone else in Sam's life understand who we are, and what we represent. I hope that anyone who does have feelings against motorcycles will in time come to understand this, and in turn be thankful that we were there to pay our last respects and say goodbye to a wonderful member of our community

[Sniper]

Jim, thanks. You have said something that I didnt know until it was brought to my attention.

[jazbug5]

I totally understand where you are coming from on this Jim. It's something I had wondered about too; however, having spoken to a friend of the family today, it would appear that *at the moment* the feeling is that they want this to be a celebration of Sam and what he was about. Seeing how many people's (sorry about the Californian 'accent' here) lives he touched may well be therapeutic for them. There is to be a family gathering tomorrow, I understand. If any concerns are voiced about the plans as they stand at the moment, we will hear about it, and of course change our plans.
Thank you for your sensitivity though.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Well said Jim but for those that can make the funeral please go. From what I have read in all the posting is the family would be honoured to have Sams friends at the funeral. So to all that are going thank you as you are there for us and the family.
We have a few interested in coming down for the Sunday ride. A lot of things could prevent us coming but we will decide on Saturday. Thanks people for doing so much for so many in such a short time.

[250learna]

Well said Jim. Thats been on my mind since the subjact came up, i didnt want to say it in case anyone took offence. We have no way of knowing how the family will respond to us attending.

[jazbug5]

Well said Jim. Thats been on my mind since the subjact came up, i didnt want to say it in case anyone took offence. We have no way of knowing how the family will respond to us attending.

Er. Apart, that is, from reading posts from his brother and close friends and waiting to hear what is felt after today's family gathering...?

Read this: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=229185&postcount=81

[White trash]

Well said, Jim. I agree with your concern and see why you feel this way.

Can I just say though, that motorcycles and all those I've met through riding them, are a HUGE part of my life, to the point where I'd want everybody I know riding one to be at my funeral. Other than my kids, I live for bikes and I'd hope my family and friends would respect my wishes in having a "biker" service regardless of how I'd passed on.

I don't know if Sam was quite as passionate about bikes as I am, but I get the feeling after hanging out with him, that he'd get a big kick out of so many people holding him in such high regard as to make such an effort.

[Quasievil]

You spoke wisely and honestly Jim.I to have thought long and hard about Sam and my own mortality and many other points about this situation.
For me attendance is important for a vareity of reasons, I wont actually go into the funeral service as I will be in leathers but it will be an honour to accompany Sam to his final place of rest. I know he was very intertested in Motorcycles and I believe he will be smiling and would get a kick out of our attendance also.
For me I think its important.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Ummm I feel you should all be in the church if there is room. I would hate to think others at the church thought you didn't go in because you were riding bikes and had somethin against "CHURCHES" as such. I hate the PC stuff but people will read all sorts in to what happens on the day. I go to church every week and if I take the bike I wear my leathers. Wet and dry. Mind you wet is not good cos it makes the seat wet.
It is not what you wear but how you act. I think Frosty has a handle on this stuff from what I have read about the organising of the day. Take part in all that we are welcomed to. If it was my son I would be happy to see so many from an interest group supporting me and the rest of the family.
Just my opinion and I am aware this could be different to how others feel but I have experienced some of this stuff. Full participation by some would be supported if done right. No participation on some fronts could alienate some.
As I will not be there do what seems right.

[mikey]

i look at it this way.

if he had died in a car would his parents get fucked off at people for turning up in a car? NO

unfortunately i cant make the service, might make the ride to cemetary

[BNZ]

i look at it this way.

if he had died in a car would his parents get fucked off at people for turning up in a car? NO

unfortunately i cant make the service, might make the ride to cemetary

Come on man keep it clean, this is a sensitive topic.

Unfortunately Mikey, bikes are regarded by most as being very dangerous. This does come with good reasoning, and it is a fact we are all aware of, and probably get reminded about by our friends and family regularly. Comparing cars and bikes in this sense is a little chalk and cheese.

[James Deuce]

i look at it this way.

if he had died in a car would his parents get fucked off at people for turning up in a car? NO

unfortunately i cant make the service, might make the ride to cemetary
Yes, I know, but unfortunately motorcycles are perceived as inherently dangerous by the majority of the "uninitiated motorcyclist" out there. Cars are viewed, at worst, as a necessary evil, but not inherently dangerous in and of themselves. Which is wrong, but there's not a lot you can do about it.

I'm not so worried about the parents or siblings. Other relatives less exposed to Sam's passions may not be so accepting or open minded.

[mikey]

yeah ok, ill take part at a distance if at all.

[Paul in NZ]

Well.... I know what you are saying.

If this gets turned into a 3 ring circus, I'm outta there. All I want to do is turn up, say goodbye and pay my respects. Respects to the family... Funerals are as more for the living as they are for the guest of honour.

Soon as it gets cartoon biker ish, like parades, no helmets, paintings of north american indians, wolves or spirit riders it gets sad and very inappropriate.

This is a terrible, terrible thing. Culturally, it's very import that we go and pay our respects but in a way that does not offend or annoy. After reading yesterdays notice and talking to frosty I'm wondering if thursday night is better for the family?

A memorial ride is different as thats our way of remembering him...

So... As i'm still in auckland and on hotel dial up can some kind soul find out what the family desires and lets do that eh!

Paul N

(bloody cold/flu thingy... aaarrgghh)

[FROSTY]

I think as individuals we need to look inside at our motivations for going or not going.. If in your heart you feel right to be attending then I think you should .If you feel its not right then that again is your decision.

Slightly off topic who on earth made the word funeral from Fun and all ?
How is a funeral fun for anyone???

[StoneChucker]

I think we should definitely go if possible. I've now decided it doesn't matter what you wear, but as someone said - how you act. Just turn up, park, go inside and go with the preceedings. I think we should SCRAP the idea of a march of honour (or whatever the term is), scrap the no helmet idea and any other "cartoon biker" activites that were planned. I agree totally with Paul on this, I don't think I'll be taking part in any of those should they occur.

Ok so I hope we are still going on Friday, since tomorrow is Thursday and I haven't organised time off work if necessary...
Dave.

[RiderInBlack]

Wish I could be there. From reading Sam's family's posting, I get the feeling that they understand and welcome our wish to pay repect to Sam's passing. For those who are not direct friends or family that have a problem with "Bikers" being at the funeral, as long as you all behave in a respectable manner, they will learn that "bikers" are not just a bunch of hoons with no reguard for others. This can only be good for the future image of motorbike riders.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

For those who are not direct friends or family that have a problem with "Bikers" being at the funeral, as long as you all behave in a respectable manner, they will learn that "bikers" are not just a bunch of hoons with no reguard for others. This can only be good for the future image of motorbike riders.
What this man said. All the answers in one comment.