Insurance and track days?

[rapid van cleef]

I am looking at various track days and called my insurance comapny, 'Star'. to be told that there is an excess of between 1000 and 2000 bucks for approved trackdays. They will not offer any cover to 'fast' groups on those days though.(albeit, It will be a while before Im in the fast group!)

Then I called kiwibike insurance and they only have a 250 dollar excess, similarly on approved track days.

Its not like Im planing on binning my bike, but, like most of us...not having a factory support etc I cant afford to ride without insurance with the chance of smashing me bike up. adding to that, a possible 2k excess. I am seriously considering changing insurance to kiwibike. Their premium is cheaper than Star too.

I plan on doing the california superbike school and then to taupo for regular track days.

anyone have any experience of a claim through track accident etc through either of these companies? The thoughts and opinions of the masses are welcome.

regards

[yachtie10]

Check whatever insurance you have or want against the track day you want to do. As some times tracks and/or companies are blacklisted (usually due to amount of claims) which means you may have to change which one you attend or accept the risk.
you dont list what bike you have so I cant know what your risk is.

Personally people who ride expensive machinery on trackdays (im not including training days) should pay a high excess. this may help them stay on their bike.

There was a "trackday" recently where aparently over $100,000 worths of claims was made from the day

[cowboyz]

i think it should be done by a case by case basis as it is on the road. I have done a few trackdays and never crashed on the track. Why should I be penalized because muppets cant keep their bikes upright?

[rapid van cleef]

hey, thanks for the replies to my thread.

My bike is a zx10. whilst regarded as a bit of a nutter bike, it only goes as fast as i make it go. ive never crashed in 10 years riding. anyhoo. after discussing the issue with both insurance companies and the events that they both cover at this moment, why should i stay with star and potentially pay an additional 1750 bucks excess? the guy at star didnt have an answer.

so , should i stay with them , or move to another company. if i can get the same cover for cheaper and 'potenially' only have a 250 dollars excess, why would i stay with star??? thats where my heads at right now.

[cowboyz]

oh, and for what its worth. I got insurance through kiwibike. Done the deal at $250 excess for on road, $250 excess for off road but when it comes round to trackriding excess magically jumped to $2000 for a $6000 bike. Apparently trackriding is not included in the 'offroad' section of my policy. managed to do a deal last year to cover bike except lights and fairings for $500.

just because you make a deal and sign a contract with an insurance company doesnt mean that is the rules they are going to play by. I would check and then double check before bothering changing insurance companies. Getting it in writing is not enough either. The rules will change - that is for certain.

The most upsetting thing about it is people think this is acceptable.

[yachtie10]

There was a ZX10 that highsided at hampton downs yesterday
remarkably little damage to the bike but the rider was limping badly

most people dont intend to bin but i think a high excess is an incentive not to go nuts (and better than raising everyones premium)
Can those who do lots of trackdays advise if there is usually expensive damage to bikes apart from the usual fairings etc (crashing on a trackday) the crashes I have seen are the usual fairings indicators etc

You can hire bikes at Hampton downs but I've heard the excess is pretty huge if you bin

[vifferman]

I ...called my insurance comapny, 'Star'. to be told that there is an excess of between 1000 and 2000 bucks for approved trackdays.
Then I called kiwibike insurance and they only have a 250 dollar excess, similarly on approved track days.
Kiwibike is only a broker, and Star is one of the companies they sell policies for (in fact, the one I'm insured with, via Kiwibike). I nearly did a trackday recently, and Kiwibike said my bike would have a $1k excess, and I'd be insured only if I attended the Advanced Rider Training session before the trackday itself.

I decided the dubious benefits of the trackday didn't outweigh the financial and physical risks.

I may well do one this year however - take a few risks and live a little before I sell my bike or cark it.

[rapid van cleef]

Hmmmmmmm. ok, i know kiwi bike is a broker. I am planning on doing the advanced rider training day first anyway, as i have never been on a track. then go to taupo , do a few days there, then the california superbike school. so it seems as thought insurance companies can change their minds whenever they bloody like!

[Voltaire]

I did a HMCC rider training day at Hampton Downs recently, for the 900ss ( 10 years old) Go Lightly ( insured with Vero) said no as it was not one of the two recognized training providers.
I have an old Darmah insured thru the Vintage Car Club for $ 120 a year...called them and they were uncertain what a track day was....they came back with 3K excess....so the Darmah it was..... I was only in the learner group but I had a ball...:Punk:
Have fun

Deciding on insurance is like choosing a mobile phone plan....you know they are going to get you somewhere.

[ynot slow]

Get anything in writing with date on it,and even email as well,stating excess etc.When I had first bike insured through Kiwibiker they asked if I was going to ride on track,nope was my reply along with them saying if I did tell them and track cover is placed on the policy,with no aditional excess,but that has changed now.
I'm of the opinion to get them to ok what you want to do,i.e Manfeild trackday 9th Jan competing in slow,medium or fast group,rider will be xyz,and asking for excess,this to be emailed and/or posted to me.

[Starky307]

The whole reason I'm insured through Kiwibike is for the plan that gives me track day coverage with the least excess and least restrictions. I always have to get email confirmation before participating but I'm yet to be turned down. The whole insurance coverage is based on rider training so there can be no timing of any sort etc, it seems pretty solid so far (touch wood) and only $250 excess as with riding on the road.

I could of insured my bike for less else where but then get shafted or not covered at all for track days, I chose the piece of mind and stayed with kiwibike.

I say change the insurance companies and go with Kiwibike.

[cowboyz]

and yet I get turned down all the time via kiwibike and star insurance. which seems weird to me because,
a, I have never crashed
b, any crash will be a realively low payout having a $6k bike (rather than a 20k bike)
c, ive never crashed.

got an email pending to see if I am covered for this weekend.

Just got confirmation that insurance will not cover any trackdays without a licence.

[ynot slow]

got an email pending to see if I am covered for this weekend.

Just got confirmation that insurance will not cover any trackdays without a licence.

Can't see why no licence at the time is a problem,if you're disqualified shows you had one,fair enough if you haven't got a licence.

But then they use the old thought of no licence,hmm disqualified,hmmm speed/demerits or dic,careless etc.On the other hand it is in the insurance companies interests if you speed on the track to get your fix rather than the road,if you crash on the track it costs them to repair your bike only,on the road it could also involve a $100K mercedes or similar as well.Can see both sides of equation but don't agree with it(insurance angle).

[cowboyz]

insurance is beginning to be more and more of a joke. Just got confirmation that I will not be covered for this weekends trackday because I am about to lose my licence. Never mind that I still have a licence. still have a warrented/registered bike. No.. because I am going to lose my licence I am not covered.

whats the next step? You warrent is about to run out in 3 months time so its the same as not having one?

[ynot slow]

Bloody crazy,the rules of trackday are licence,bike wof/rego and gear,nothing about if your losing licence in x days don't ride,so what gives with insurance companies,at the time of trackday you have met every clause for organisers and insurance companies.Who cares if in the following few days you will lose privelidge of a licence due to demerits,hell no difference to a guy who gets pinged on Friday dic and goes to court on Tuesday or so and will lose his licence,but is able to complete a track day with insurance as he still has licence.

[Squiggles]

You take risks, they charge to cover that risk... Or they decide its too much of a risk and decline

I thought it was simple =\

[cowboyz]

You take risks, they charge to cover that risk... Or they decide its too much of a risk and decline

I thought it was simple =\

i dont have a problem if they decide the risk is too high and are not offering cover *before* they take your money. When they agree to take your money and agree to cover you for trackdays and then decide later that they are going to change the conditions of the policy without notice.. how is that fair?

[Shaun]

I think Insurance companies are bolldy crazy to even offer any cover for track days

Sorry to p anyone off with this post

[hayd3n]

insurance company's can change your policy whenever they want without notice read your contract

[cowboyz]

yep. there in lies the problem. you dont know what your paying for and the goal posts keep moving

[sinfull]

I think Insurance companies are bolldy crazy to even offer any cover for track days

Sorry to p anyone off with this post Agree with ya here Shaun !
Track day companies work toward getting insurance companies to cover them by calling them training days and good on em, it does help both riders and the T/D companies fill the groups !
But yep very bold, seeing the ave person wanting insurance for track days wont have tyres suited for the track, their suspension will 9 times out of 10 be way off whats needed, if it rains most get the mentallity that they have paid for the day so they gonna ride even though it's like riding on ice with the rubber they have, most eventually out ride their abilities or start chasing faster riders by the end of the day !

Buy a track bike i say !
Just happen to know where there's a great gixxer set up for just that purpose !

[cowboyz]

hold on a tic... werent you avocating the track as a good (safe) place to upgrade your skills 5 mins ago?

[sinfull]

hold on a tic... werent you avocating the track as a good (safe) place to upgrade your skills 5 mins ago?
And boy has it ever, But i never had cover !
My opinion hasn't changed Lance, still the safest place to go fast, learn what to or not to do when things go wrong, learn where your bikes limits are, learn about your suspension, tyres and the differences in compounds etc !
CD run a track day and have for a lot of years, but the insurance co's don't recognise them as training days mate, that will be why you weren't covered !

[cowboyz]

ive always been covered for them in the past.. the reason for no cover this time around is because I am losing my licence NEXT week. I will still have one on the day of the trackday

[roogazza]

I think Insurance companies are bolldy crazy to even offer any cover for track days
Sorry to p anyone off with this post

Me too, I was amazed the first time I heard of cover being given for trackdays. The companys' obviously took the bait that trackdays are for training etc . I thought it was purely a chance for a 'fang'..... silly me ! G.

[cowboyz]

insurance would save alot more money by saying.. wont pay out any time there are more than 2 sportsbikes in any area on a backroad............

[MaxCannon]

I've done 6 track days- two at Pukekohe- two at Taupo and two at Hampton Downs.

I think you do actually learn some quite valuable skills - certainly the first two I did helped me find the limits of the machine I was riding.
It's way safer than trying it on the road.

As for insurance - Kiwibike only said no once, I still went anyway and had a blast.

I realise some accidents can't be avoided but most of the ones I've seen at track days have been people outriding their limits.
Still - I'd rather crash at a track day and wait < 2 minutes for an ambulace than crash in the middle of nowhere and wait an hour with a broken arm like a friend did before Christmas.

[Broomrider]

I did a HMCC rider training day at Hampton Downs recently, for the 900ss ( 10 years old) Go Lightly ( insured with Vero) said no as it was not one of the two recognized training providers.
I have an old Darmah insured thru the Vintage Car Club for $ 120 a year...called them and they were uncertain what a track day was....they came back with 3K excess....so the Darmah it was..... I was only in the learner group but I had a ball...:Punk:
Have fun

Deciding on insurance is like choosing a mobile phone plan....you know they are going to get you somewhere.

I was booked to go on a training course in April with Pro rider under the watchful eye of champion bike racer Karel Pavich at Ruapuna...(Vero) has told me I won't be insured as doesn't recognise Pro rider as one of their two recognised training providers in CHCH. He then went on about how I should do a course (naming another training provider here in CHCH) ... training providers have to go through NZTA accreditation to be able to provide this service:mad:

[PeteJ]

AMCC's ART Days are actually training days, not just track days.

But, from Graham's report on 17 January day:

"We had Star Insurance ‘come out’ stating they have been ‘blind’ testing us at previous events and have declared us ‘Class One’ meaning they will insure you without increased premiums and even discount you premiums after attending our courses."

Dunno what the story is with excesses, though.

[Squiggles]

I believe the training providers usually contact the main insurance co's about having their clients covered there... perhaps not tho


Insurance Companies

Just recently there have been some issues with insurance companies covering motorcycle events at Hampton Downs. As a result of this we have talked to several insurance companies and they have agreed to cover people participating in events that are managed by Motorcycling Events Group NZ Ltd. This means that Hampton Downs Ride Days and the California Superbike School are covered.

Please phone your insurance company before attending any events and if they are unsure, please encourage them to give us a call. We are happy to talk to them.

[Broomrider]

AMCC's ART Days are actually training days, not just track days.

But, from Graham's report on 17 January day:

"We had Star Insurance ‘come out’ stating they have been ‘blind’ testing us at previous events and have declared us ‘Class One’ meaning they will insure you without increased premiums and even discount you premiums after attending our courses."

Dunno what the story is with excesses, though.

who are AMCC's ART?

[PeteJ]

Auckland Motorcycle Club Inc's Advanced Rider Training Days.

[Kiwi Graham]

who are AMCC's ART?

Auckland Motor Cycle Clubs Advance Rider Training. http://www.amcc.org.nz/

The next event is 6th March. Further information is available on the Wiki or our soon to be launched web site or through contacting myself or CThompson@paraserv.co.nz
KG

[crash harry]

I'm pretty much with Shaun on this one... Given the number of bins that happen at track days I'm not too surprised that insurance companies try and wriggle out of covering track days any way they can.

Personally I'm not covered on the track at all, if I write it off it's my fault and my problem. That's why I have a track bike that's not worth much. (that and the R1 scares the bejeesus out of me whe I push it hard...)

[cowboyz]

I'm pretty much with Shaun on this one... Given the number of bins that happen at track days I'm not too surprised that insurance companies try and wriggle out of covering track days any way they can.

Personally I'm not covered on the track at all, if I write it off it's my fault and my problem. That's why I have a track bike that's not worth much. (that and the R1 scares the bejeesus out of me whe I push it hard...)

still.. under that theroy.. do you also wonder why insurance companies insure bikes in 100km/hr zones? Surely there has been a few written off in this area as well?