BRONZ Update (7 January)

[BRONZ]

BRONZ (Auckland) held its first meeting of 2010 last night, and confirmed its position regarding ACC levies .

BRONZ has outstanding and ongoing concerns about :


The size of the levy (for large bikes in particular), and the probability of large increases next time round.
Separate cc classifications
The problem of multi vehicle ownership


BRONZ confirmed its three objectives

Abolition of the separate motorcycle classification
Abolition of cc distinction
Abolition of statutory full funding requirement

(achieving no 1 would automatically eliminate no 2 , but they were both kept because no 2 may be a stepping stone to no 1)

BRONZ also confirmed its opinion that a fairer method of collection should be established.

BRONZ considered specific actions for Q1 2010.

No specific BRONZ organised protest action is planned for Q1, but BRONZ will continue to endorse protests that meet BRONZ criteria (legal, not having disruption as the primary reason, though recognising that protest usually entails some disruption to someone)

BRONZ will undertake a program of education and persuasion targeted at the public and at decision makers and influencers, focused on the objectives above. These targets include National and Labour MPs, media, and the general and motorcycling public

BRONZ will review specific protest action (ie megaphones, bikes on the road) as ACC actions or events provide a 'hook' to centre protest action on - noting that the next such event is likely to be the release of the report of the ACC Stocktake Group, forecast for March

BRONZ also noted the invidious position of the AA as regards motorcycles and resolved to communicate concerns to the AA.

[p.dath]

BRONZ also noted the invidious position of the AA as regards motorcycles and resolved to communicate concerns to the AA.

With regard to this one, refer to my thread about the AA:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/115064-Response-from-the-AA

[shrub]

I think those are important issues. What are BRONZ's strategies to achieve them? Do they need any help?

[Tink]

As anyone heard of the new ACC levies on the ski fields, whose next?

[p.dath]

As anyone heard of the new ACC levies on the ski fields, whose next?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3214164/ACC-levy-hikes-outrage-skifields

[Tink]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3214164/ACC-levy-hikes-outrage-skifields

thanks..... :)

[birdhandler]

With regard to this one, refer to my thread about the AA:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/115064-Response-from-the-AA

I cannot see the govt budging on this because this is the only way you can privatise ACC , something that the national party have been vetry keen on in the past so by 2019 all outstanding claims will be fully funded and new claims will be fully funded each year

[caseye]

Good work there Les and BRONZ's exec, I know that the meetings are advertsied but could they please be posted up a few days beforehand so us idiots out here can make time to come along. I recently rejoined the AA and paid for the AA Plus,What do ya know 2 weeks after doing that I had occassion to have the wifes bike transported home. Ya a win.But the real reason I re upped is to get inside and see whats what. so wish me luck.

[riffer]

Nice one guys. I imagine we'll be providing some feedback after BRONZ Welly's meeting second Tuesday of February. (bump)

[YellowDog]

Much of this crap was related to the fact that ACC claims have failed to accurately distinguish and classify accident types. i.e. Off road, race track, farm, etc.etc. 'Commuter Boys' and 'Ornamental Bike Polishers' should not have to suffer the consequenses of accidents by such unrealated groups. I would like to see some efforts put into getting ACC to update the claims process to be more specific and hence accurately classify the claim type. The next time ACC throw figures at us we at least what to have a degree of confidence in their accuracy.

[p.dath]

Much of this crap was related to the fact that ACC claims have failed to accurately distinguish and classify accident types. i.e. Off road, race track, farm, etc.etc. 'Commuter Boys' and 'Ornamental Bike Polishers' should not have to suffer the consequenses of accidents by such unrealated groups. I would like to see some efforts put into getting ACC to update the claims process to be more specific and hence accurately classify the claim type. The next time ACC throw figures at us we at least what to have a degree of confidence in their accuracy.

I do not agree.

The requirement for pre-funding should be removed. Then there wouldn't even be a seperate motorcycle charge. There would be a simple flat road user charge, as it was originally.

The more you ask ACC to sub-classify accidents and assess risk, the more you are re-inforcing the desire for insurance. We want an accident compensation scheme - not an insurance policy.

[Pussy]

Thanks to BRONZ!
All the rest of you that haven't already..... fork out a paltry $20.00 and join!

[YellowDog]

I do not agree.

The requirement for pre-funding should be removed. Then there wouldn't even be a seperate motorcycle charge. There would be a simple flat road user charge, as it was originally.

The more you ask ACC to sub-classify accidents and assess risk, the more you are re-inforcing the desire for insurance. We want an accident compensation scheme - not an insurance policy.

OK - So I do agree with what you have said, but I do think it will easier to get ACC to play their own game rather than change it to what we consider to be fair and reasonable.

[bogan]

I do not agree.

The requirement for pre-funding should be removed. Then there wouldn't even be a seperate motorcycle charge. There would be a simple flat road user charge, as it was originally.

The more you ask ACC to sub-classify accidents and assess risk, the more you are re-enforcing the desire for insurance. We want an accident compensation scheme - not an insurance policy.

exactly, accidents from unrelated groups etc would eventually be removed if nick smith gets his way, it'll be after they privatize it in 2019 once its fully funded of course, but itll happen. The issue is now more about the future of ACC itself. Though in saying that, I'm not gonna be shafted from now until 2019 just to facilitate the disassembly of ACC. BRONZ is doing the right thing by me as a biker, and also the right thing by me as a kiwi :2thumbsup

[p.dath]

OK - So I do agree with what you have said, but I do think it will easier to get ACC to play their own game rather than change it to what we consider to be fair and reasonable.

Negative. We want ACC to go back to how it was originally implemented. Letting ACC play by their own rules is the reason why we are where we are today.

[caseye]

Your'e both right! Stop the in fighting and come up with a viable solution to ACC's most immediate problem.Getting bikers to pay anything for their ACC content of the next registration. LOL, sorry guys but your disagreeing(though really only over which way the message is delivered) with one another is exactly what the Govt and ACC heads want. Ideally we and I'd wager most of the driving/riding population of NZ simply want a simple ACC as it was, flat fee for accident compensation. To allow them(ACC head and the Govt) to do anything else is to allow that there is wriggle room.There must not be and they need to know this sooner rather than later. BRONZ is I believe the best vehicle for getting whatever message/suggestion we collectively come up with across to the Govt.

[YellowDog]

Negative. We want ACC to go back to how it was originally implemented. Letting ACC play by their own rules is the reason why we are where we are today.

IMO - You're dreaming. I wish you good luck.

[craneman]

whats happening with Bronz Wellington - I went to a meeting in Lower Hutt late last year and joined, but Ive heard nothing since

[Skyryder]

OK - So I do agree with what you have said, but I do think it will easier to get ACC to play their own game rather than change it to what we consider to be fair and reasonable.


Jeeeez ya not serious. "Play their own game?" By this I takeit that you mean they make up the rules as they go along.

And on top of this you believe that they should not be fair and reasonable. I'm surprised ya still riding with such sentiments.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

IMO - You're dreaming. I wish you good luck.


All things start with a dream. Without them nothing happens.


Skyryder

[pornoshauno]

:angry:When are we going to protest outside the ACC offices around the country? Come on, i'm sick of being mr nice guy and want to kick some ASS!!! For a BIG city like Auckland we dont seem to be doing much protesting!The more money the government extracts out of me, more of my "life force" is getting drained from my soul.

[shrub]

:angry:When are we going to protest outside the ACC offices around the country? Come on, i'm sick of being mr nice guy and want to kick some ASS!!! For a BIG city like Auckland we dont seem to be doing much protesting!The more money the government extracts out of me, more of my "life force" is getting drained from my soul.

That won't actually achieve anything. The ACC staff are not the ones making the decisions, it's a political decision and unfortunately the politicians have put their best offer on the table, so any form of protest is of limited value. I'm afraid the levies we've been told we'll pay are the best we'lll get, but there is still room for negotiation and we are still able to negotiate concessions from the government and ACC.

My position is that we're paying more, so we would like to get more for our money in terms of meeting our needs to ride motorcycles safely. What needs to happen now is professional and effective lobbying of local and central government as well as service agencies like ACC to change legislation, riding environment, resource provision, education etc. Protests will change nothing, but negotiation and reasoned debate will.

The next question is, are BRONZ up to it? Do they have access to the specialised skills and resources they need? Or are they limited to organising a few protest rides and having a few meetings?

[bogan]

That won't actually achieve anything. The ACC staff are not the ones making the decisions, it's a political decision and unfortunately the politicians have put their best offer on the table, so any form of protest is of limited value. I'm afraid the levies we've been told we'll pay are the best we'lll get, but there is still room for negotiation and we are still able to negotiate concessions from the government and ACC.

My arse thats their best offer, It's only their best offer If you believe Nationals bullshit that future funding is required, which is clearly just an attempt to privative ACC.


The next question is, are BRONZ up to it? Do they have access to the specialised skills and resources they need? Or are they limited to organising a few protest rides and having a few meetings?

I have faith that BRONZ will keep up the pressure, and make the future funding/privatisation of acc one of the big issues for the next election. Though there are a number of unions getting on board towards the same goal now as well, hence the next big welli protest which is not just for bikers.

[shrub]

My arse thats their best offer, It's only their best offer If you believe Nationals bullshit that future funding is required, which is clearly just an attempt to privative ACC.


I have faith that BRONZ will keep up the pressure, and make the future funding/privatisation of acc one of the big issues for the next election. Though there are a number of unions getting on board towards the same goal now as well, hence the next big welli protest which is not just for bikers.

I wish I had your faith. I agree that it's all a very carefully planned strategy by the National Party to privatise the ACC, but the public have a very short memory and all you need to do is see how little action has been happening on the ACC threads on KB to show that people have accepted and moved on. The politicians have made a significant concession (the cynic in me says we are paying what they originally intended and that the previous levies were just them going in high so they could be seen to make a concession), and that means they have backed down. National are a very popular government, and even if every motorcyclist in NZ voted Labour it might cost them 1 or 2 seats tops, and that won't happen.

As for BRONZ keeping up the pressure and making privatisation of ACC a big issue, they are not obviously putting any pressure on anything right now and I honestly doubt they have the resources to make privatisation of ACC an election issue, let alone being seen as an opinion leader outside a very narrow constituency.

[bogan]

hmmm, self fulfilling prophecy situation, if we all do nothing cos we assume bikers have accepted it then nothing will change, if we all get up in arms about it, hopefully things will change. One reason for the lack of activity on KB about it is that theres not really much to say atm, the facts are out in the open, most are set in thier opinions. So bugger all to do except actually get out there and protest, which I think (hope anyways) most bikers are willing to do, but few are willing to put in the work to organize (big ups to all those who do), next big one (with the unions) is scheduled for mid feb, see where we go from there I spose.

And as for the "is BRONZ up to it?" question, Im not well acquainted enough with politicking (and I hope to god I never will be :bleh:) to answer that, but they are the best we have, and stand the best chance If we get behind them 100%

[shrub]

hmmm, self fulfilling prophecy situation, if we all do nothing cos we assume bikers have accepted it then nothing will change, if we all get up in arms about it, hopefully things will change. One reason for the lack of activity on KB about it is that theres not really much to say atm, the facts are out in the open, most are set in thier opinions. So bugger all to do except actually get out there and protest, which I think (hope anyways) most bikers are willing to do, but few are willing to put in the work to organize (big ups to all those who do), next big one (with the unions) is scheduled for mid feb, see where we go from there I spose.

And as for the "is BRONZ up to it?" question, Im not well acquainted enough with politicking (and I hope to god I never will be :bleh:) to answer that, but they are the best we have, and stand the best chance If we get behind them 100%


Unfortunately the time for protests and "getting up in arms" is over, and that is reflected by BRONZ stating that they won't be engaged in protest action in Q1. Don't get me wrong, I love a nice big protest ride as much as the next man, but the main purposes of a protest are to: inform the political elites of the mood and will of the people and gain support for a position from outsiders. The pollies know how we feel and how pissed off we are (I suspect they always knew), but it's nearly 2 years before the next election and National are sitting pretty - even if every biker in the country voted labour, given current polling figures National would still get in. So telling them we're pissed off achieves little, and to compound the situation ACC levies are old news. In December Knuckles organised a ride with 1200 participants and the media didn't even give it a one liner, and without media coverage protests are never going to be effective.

The general public had some sympathy for us, but given the "generous" concessions made by our loving leaders I suspect that that well of sympathy has been tapped. A lot of car drivers see us as piss drinking morons who ride noisy bikes waaaaay too fast and take stupid risks, and I don't blame them for holding that opinion because bike runs always seem to decend on pubs and any citizen who has ever driven to Akaroa on a weekend has had a bike scream past them on a blind corner. The media like that look because it's Othering which is a socillogial term to describe creating the perception of a group of people not like us - others, therefore building perceived social conflict, which is why they love giving the mike to a burly middle aged man with a goatee and a leather jacket.

Another protest, especially one that disrupts Mike and Mary Citizen as they engage in the sacred ritual of shopping on a Saturday morning will achieve little, and may even be counterproductive - "look at all those horrid, rough bikers. All the do is complain about paying for all the millions of accidents they have".

As for BRONZ being the best we have, they're a great organisation with some good people. From what I understand there are several other groups that are in existence and forming who can work alongside BRONZ and share resources.

[riffer]

We're going back to Parliament on February 16. Members of BRONZ Welly and Kiwibiker, along with representatives of major union organisations, ACC Futures Coalition and other interested parties met last night to work on the fine details of how the protest action will be undertaken that day. We already have permission to take over Parliament grounds. More info will come in the next few days. In the meantime we'll try and give you more info as it's agreed upon.

[gazmascelle]

We're going back to Parliament on February 16. Members of BRONZ Welly and Kiwibiker, along with representatives of major union organisations, ACC Futures Coalition and other interested parties met last night to work on the fine details of how the protest action will be undertaken that day. We already have permission to take over Parliament grounds. More info will come in the next few days. In the meantime we'll try and give you more info as it's agreed upon.


Is there a thread for this protest?

[riffer]

Is there a thread for this protest?

Of course.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/116798-Next-BIG-Protest-with-StoneY-and-the-Unions

[Pedrostt500]

BRONZ Wellington branch, had a good meeting tonight, at the Parrot and Jigger bar, our first for 2010, we are still feeling our way forward, learning to crawl before we walk and run, we are small in Numbers at the moment but very keen to grow, so any one interested in joining us, feel free to PM, or if you are local ish rock up to the Parrot and Jigger bar, in Lower Hutt, on the Second Tuesday of each month, @ 7pm,and we will be happy to meet you.
There will be many issues at Local level and National levels that will affect Motorcyclists, as Individuals, Clubs and.
ACC and the Cheese Cutters being two of the biggies of recent times, with stronger Membership Numbers, we can be more effective in lobbing for a better deal for our Members. We would like to hear from you if you belong to any Motorcycling Clubs, both on road and off, as we do not discriminate against what you ride, with in the Motorcycling Spectrum, or even if you don't ride but have an interest in Motorcycling.


Pedro

[GerryAttrick]

You've gotta hand it to the french - they know how to make and effective protest.

<http://ukfrancebikers.com/2010/03/14/french-motorcyclists-more-angry-than-ever/>

French motorcyclists more angry than ever March 14, 2010] Last month,
we published a post where we said that thousands of motorcyclists were
expected to demonstrate all over France in protest at a recent
Government announcement to fine any bikers caught filtering through
the traffic. Well, the demonstrations took place yesterday, 13th March
2010. More than 60 cities and towns saw their roads blocked by
thousands of angry bikers who said NON to the French authorities who
keep treating motorbikes, scooters and mopeds like cars.
The French Government have recently announced their intention to take
draconian measures against bikers who overtake cars and filter in
between them in traffic jams by issuing expensive fines. They expect
every bike to stay in lane, like cars, behind each other, and not go
any faster than them. How stupid is that? Paris, for instance, but
also Lille, Lyon, Marseille, Bordeaux and Toulouse are already very
congested cities due to the high number of cars in circulation, and
the Government is keen to add more pressure on the roads by forcing
Powered Two Wheelers (PTW) to behave like cars.
They treat us like cars, we will behave like cars!

La F?d?ration Fran?aise des Motards en Col?re (FFMC - the French
Federation of Angry Bikers) urged all motorcyclists on the other side
of the Channel to protest and, as a result, France saw a total of
40,000 motorcyclists gathered on the roads yesterday, with 10,000 of
them in Paris alone. Parisian motorcyclists joined the FFMC at 2pm at
Ch?teau de Vincennes, on the outskirts of Paris. There were already
5,000 bikers at 1.30pm, another 2,200 joined between 1.30pm and 2pm
and the rest joined during the demonstration.

If one car = one bike, let's see the results!
Angry bikers took over the whole p?riph?rique (the express road
running around the centre of Paris), each occupying the space of one
car in each lane. Within minutes, an enormous traffic jam was created
by these 10,000 motorcyclists, thus gridlocking the whole of Paris on
a busy Saturday afternoon, when Parisians go out to do their shopping
and visit friends and relatives. The result was absolutely
spectacular, car drivers were stuck in traffic until late in the
evening by the time all the traffic jams cleared.
Let?s cause massive disruption in the metro!

Did you say bikers, if not happy, had to take the metro like everyone
else? Fine, let's do it!
For anyone who decided to leave their car at home and take the metro
instead, unfortunately that didn?t help. In response to a statement
made by the French Transport Secretary, Jean-Marc Belotti, who said
?If they [bikers] are not happy, they can take the metro like everyone
else?, protestors took over the Paris underground network. While some
bikers continued to block the roads and cause standstill overground,
others went down the underground en masse and occupied an entire
train, thus bringing the entire line to a complete stop. We let you
imagine the outcome if thousands of motorcyclists left their bike at
home and commuted by tube. This is valid in London too, if Westminster
City Council continue to stealth tax bikers to park, thus increase the
cost of motorcycling. Next time, Mr Belotti will think twice before
opening his mouth!
UK France Bikers are very proud indeed of the FFMC and their actions
to protect the rights of motorcyclists in France. The FFMC is a real
example to follow for everyone. It is now time that public
authorities, wherever they are in the world, realise that they?re not
above everyone else. To the contrary, they are there to serve the
people who elected them.
They inconvenience us, we will inconvenience them! Power to the people!

Please join and support the campaign to stop Westminster Council from
stealth taxing motorcyclists to park before their scheme spreads all
over the UK and the rest of Europe. For further details, visit
http://www.notobikeparkingtax.com/

[mashman]

Bravo... It'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference... I'm kinda hoping that the govt keep pressing and see what the fuck you French come up with... the Brits will do fuck all... (maybe)

[pornoshauno]

You've gotta hand it to the french - they know how to make and effective protest.

<http://ukfrancebikers.com/2010/03/14/french-motorcyclists-more-angry-than-ever/>

French motorcyclists more angry than ever March 14, 2010] Last month,
we published a post where we said that thousands of motorcyclists were
expected to demonstrate all over France in protest at a recent
Government announcement to fine any bikers caught filtering through
the traffic. Well, the demonstrations took place yesterday, 13th March
2010. More than 60 cities and towns saw their roads blocked by
thousands of angry bikers who said NON to the French authorities who
keep treating motorbikes, scooters and mopeds like cars.
The French Government have recently announced their intention to take
draconian measures against bikers who overtake cars and filter in
between them in traffic jams by issuing expensive fines. They expect
every bike to stay in lane, like cars, behind each other, and not go
any faster than them. How stupid is that? Paris, for instance, but
also Lille, Lyon, Marseille, Bordeaux and Toulouse are already very
congested cities due to the high number of cars in circulation, and
the Government is keen to add more pressure on the roads by forcing
Powered Two Wheelers (PTW) to behave like cars.
They treat us like cars, we will behave like cars!

La F?d?ration Fran?aise des Motards en Col?re (FFMC - the French
Federation of Angry Bikers) urged all motorcyclists on the other side
of the Channel to protest and, as a result, France saw a total of
40,000 motorcyclists gathered on the roads yesterday, with 10,000 of
them in Paris alone. Parisian motorcyclists joined the FFMC at 2pm at
Ch?teau de Vincennes, on the outskirts of Paris. There were already
5,000 bikers at 1.30pm, another 2,200 joined between 1.30pm and 2pm
and the rest joined during the demonstration.

If one car = one bike, let's see the results!
Angry bikers took over the whole p?riph?rique (the express road
running around the centre of Paris), each occupying the space of one
car in each lane. Within minutes, an enormous traffic jam was created
by these 10,000 motorcyclists, thus gridlocking the whole of Paris on
a busy Saturday afternoon, when Parisians go out to do their shopping
and visit friends and relatives. The result was absolutely
spectacular, car drivers were stuck in traffic until late in the
evening by the time all the traffic jams cleared.
Let?s cause massive disruption in the metro!

Did you say bikers, if not happy, had to take the metro like everyone
else? Fine, let's do it!
For anyone who decided to leave their car at home and take the metro
instead, unfortunately that didn?t help. In response to a statement
made by the French Transport Secretary, Jean-Marc Belotti, who said
?If they [bikers] are not happy, they can take the metro like everyone
else?, protestors took over the Paris underground network. While some
bikers continued to block the roads and cause standstill overground,
others went down the underground en masse and occupied an entire
train, thus bringing the entire line to a complete stop. We let you
imagine the outcome if thousands of motorcyclists left their bike at
home and commuted by tube. This is valid in London too, if Westminster
City Council continue to stealth tax bikers to park, thus increase the
cost of motorcycling. Next time, Mr Belotti will think twice before
opening his mouth!
UK France Bikers are very proud indeed of the FFMC and their actions
to protect the rights of motorcyclists in France. The FFMC is a real
example to follow for everyone. It is now time that public
authorities, wherever they are in the world, realise that they?re not
above everyone else. To the contrary, they are there to serve the
people who elected them.
They inconvenience us, we will inconvenience them! Power to the people!

Please join and support the campaign to stop Westminster Council from
stealth taxing motorcyclists to park before their scheme spreads all
over the UK and the rest of Europe. For further details, visit
http://www.notobikeparkingtax.com/

Love the story man, why cant we kick butt like that? I just saw a story on tv bout that mountain biker impaling himself and thought yep i'm paying his ACC levies! It just aint F*&%kin fair. This country is starting to suck. no wonder everyone else is crossing the ditch! Have we just rolled over to this govt and invited them to tickle our tummies? Are we a bunch of soft c&*ks? I wanna kick some f&&*kin Arse! Like Les Mason said "Its just plain thievery" I AINT GONE AND IM NOT FORGETTING.....

[pete376403]

Oh yeah, and that mountain bikers wrist impalement wasn't his first injury either - he listed a whole bunch of bits injured or broken. And no doubt every one of them an ACC claim.

[cheshirecat]

And there is this re Westminster Bike parking fees in London - note the use of sms and general strategy

http://www.notobikeparkingtax.com/

[jamov13]

...This country is starting to suck. no wonder everyone else is crossing the ditch! Have we just rolled over to this govt...

Yeah man, I agree. This country is turning into a pack of loser pussy's. Can't win rugby, getting over taxed and expected to be all happy about it. Let's wake the #@Ck UP! I won't stand for this type of $#IT much longer.

I also agree with the bloke who wants to protest at the local ACC offices. That's exactly the type of action that DOES get results.

Oh yeah and why the #@CK can some Nazi small-man ticket book wielding C@#T give me a ticket for no warrant or rego... What next? Speeding tickets and other "Police" work?


...Are we a bunch of soft c&*ks? I wanna kick some f&&*kin Arse!

HELL NO! Not all of us! I'm with you man.

I'd love to ride in to ACC's closest local office, do a sick, long, lung choking burnout all the way back out their shinny automatic double glass doors.

[red mermaid]

Well, go for it, don't let us hold you back, and I look forward to reading about it in the paper.

[Katman]

Yeah man, I agree. This country is turning into a pack of loser pussy's. Can't win rugby, getting over taxed and expected to be all happy about it. Let's wake the #@Ck UP! I won't stand for this type of $#IT much longer.

I also agree with the bloke who wants to protest at the local ACC offices. That's exactly the type of action that DOES get results.

Oh yeah and why the #@CK can some Nazi small-man ticket book wielding C@#T give me a ticket for no warrant or rego... What next? Speeding tickets and other "Police" work?



HELL NO! Not all of us! I'm with you man.

I'd love to ride in to ACC's closest local office, do a sick, long, lung choking burnout all the way back out their shinny automatic double glass doors.

It's retards like you that play straight into the governments hand.

[duckonin]

People hold the power but fail to use it wisely in NZ, in other words when there is a protest it should be complete disruption nothing less....

[Katman]

People hold the power but fail to use it wisely in NZ, in other words when there is a protest it should be complete disruption nothing less....

And the course of 'complete disruption' will achieve nothing other than the speedier demise of motorcycling.

[duckonin]

And the course of 'complete disruption' will achieve nothing other than the speedier demise of motorcycling.

Will not agree with you on that Katman..To do nothing, then the power to B gets it's way, and if that happens there will be no more motorcycling in any country.

[Katman]

Will not agree with you on that Katman..To do nothing, then the power to B gets it's way, and if that happens there will be no more motorcycling in any country.

Nothing will be gained by portraying ourselves as mindless rebels.

The only way forward is to improve the way the general public perceive us.

[duckonin]

Nothing will be gained by portraying ourselves as mindless rebels.

The only way forward is to improve the way the general public perceive us.

Thats just it, the general public are on our side regardless of how we react..They also see the unfairness bestowed upon motocyclists and support our cause, e.g ACC they are not dumb...

[Katman]

Thats just it, the general public are on our side regardless of how we react.

Believe that at your peril.

[Conquiztador]

Believe that at your peril.

I was as proud as the next biker to be part of the BIKEOI. But we achieved nothing. Nothing at all. The ACC levy we now are paying was always the plan. We walked like sheep and made no noise. Some BULLSHIT rants was all that was heard. Now the plan is to hold another BIKEOI in November. They must be scared! Count me out.

[Point n Shot]

OK guys. Tomorrow is the big ACC hike. Is this it or are we going to make ourselves heard louder and bigger than before. Lets not do what the public of this country are re noun for and take it laying down.:angry:

[jamov13]

It's retards like you that play straight into the governments hand.

Whatever dude, we need to attack in force.... If the whole bloody motorcycling communiting was rioting in the street things would change.

You need to change your sex status to female.

[Katman]

Whatever dude, we need to attack in force.... If the whole bloody motorcycling communiting was rioting in the street things would change.

You need to change your sex status to female.

You've been riding for all of two minutes and you think you've got all the answers?

[oldrider]

The ACC campaign is dead and buried when news events like this go unexploited, unchallenged, unhighlighted or compared to what motorcyclists have to do and pay just to be allowed to use the roads!
Rant and rave thread: Guy on Longboard overtakes truck at 100kph - WTF :brick:

[Will Beard]

latest cost is in for my SV1000 $517.25 for 1 year
$262.41 for 6 months

&$%#N rediculous

National Yur gone

Labour your hopeless

lets have a coup. :angry::angry::angry::angry: