New 600 production class

[Shaun]

Re Post I know

who is doing it?

[Rcktfsh]

Not looking good if the lack of response is anything to go by, real shame as I thought this class offered an oppurtunity for riders to step up without having to sell a kidney to do so.

[cs363]

Not looking good if the lack of response is anything to go by, real shame as I thought this class offered an oppurtunity for riders to step up without having to sell a kidney to do so.

Maybe all the likely contenders are hooked up to dialysis machines due to their sales of kidneys to fund previous racing efforts? :whistle:

[Drew]

Gizza bike Shaun, I'll have a crack.

[cs363]

Gizza bike Shaun, I'll have a crack.

How many kidneys you got then? :D

[Whitebait]

People that I've have talked to think it is a great idea and are planning on moving into that class for the next nationals.

I think it'll be a good class to step up to making it more about the rider than the bike.

Everything going to plan I'll have a 600 before the end of this year.

Got any good bikes lying around Shaun???????

[Shaun]

People that I've have talked to think it is a great idea and are planning on moving into that class for the next nationals.

I think it'll be a good class to step up to making it more about the rider than the bike.

Everything going to plan I'll have a 600 before the end of this year.

Got any good bikes lying around Shaun???????


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/116285-Track-race-bike


Like this one you mean Dude

[Whitebait]

Yeah something like that just cheaper:2thumbsup

[FROSTY]

can someone remind me what thats about? 600 proddy? NO engine work allowed? whats the rules?

[CM2005]

can i enter a ZX636R powered ZXR400?

[Rcktfsh]

can someone remind me what thats about? 600 proddy? NO engine work allowed? whats the rules?

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Sports_Production_Regualtions.pdf

[Shaun]

Yeah something like that just cheaper:2thumbsup



Dreamer. get another job mate

[Marknz]

In theory, I s'pose I could give it a go... but my laptimes are just not good enough to be competing at that level yet. I'm pretty sure my '07 stacks up to the regs.

I wonder if entering in that class at the Manfield Nats Round would void my Clubmans entries with VMCC?

[scroter]

In theory, I s'pose I could give it a go... but my laptimes are just not good enough to be competing at that level yet. I'm pretty sure my '07 stacks up to the regs.

I ownder if entering in that class at the Manfield Nats Round would void my Clubmans entries with VMCC?

If your fast enough to enter a 600 class at nationals you probably should be flagging any clubmans racing anyway, plus I reckon you get faster hanging out with quick riders than you do slower ones. Also I thought clubmans was for entry level riders, Ive seen some scared off because someone has come past them at what seems like warp factor 10, ie the speed difference is to great. Just my opinion thats all. good luck

[CTD]

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Sports_Production_Regualtions.pdf

I guess it's a 600 version of the 1000 rules? (without looking at them)

[Marknz]

If your fast enough to enter a 600 class at nationals you probably should be flagging any clubmans racing anyway, plus I reckon you get faster hanging out with quick riders than you do slower ones. Also I thought clubmans was for entry level riders, Ive seen some scared off because someone has come past them at what seems like warp factor 10, ie the speed difference is to great. Just my opinion thats all. good luck

Fair call, and food for thought. Cheers

[SWERVE]

When i enquired about rules for this class straight after AGM was told that it was still in planning and wouldnt happen till 2011 as no new classes/rules could be put forward untill 2010.
Think a few more will enter this class next year..............given the whole season to plan etc. Still think there are a couple of regs that arnt "quite right" IMHO

[Drew]

Not in the mood for reading rules at the mo, but so long as I could do pipe and shocks, I'd think it was a better class than the superstock thous. To run at the front of that class ya need the latest bike, and I dont know anyone who can afford that every season.

[Shaun]

You can as well as a slip on muffler ( Removing cat converter is ok) and power commander

Air filter and motor STD

[neil_cb125t]

Lee bradford ( rides the airforce ZX6 ) will be doing the class in 2011 -

[lostinflyz]

i suspect you'll find a number of riders in the smaller classes wanting to move up over the next year or two choosing to start in the prod 600 class rather than super sport.

i'd like to give it a go but i like playing with my bike too much.

[brads]

Have heard there is 26 in the 600s! great stuff!!

[R6_kid]

Not looking good if the lack of response is anything to go by, real shame as I thought this class offered an oppurtunity for riders to step up without having to sell a kidney to do so.

You don't seriously think that everyone who may be interested in this class are active members on Kiwibiker??? There is a fair number of people who either haven't heard about the website, or think that we're all raving homo's and wankers.

[Ivan]

and its understandable why theres alot of keyboard heros make this site and its members look bad

and that was not aimed at you just a reply to your comment

[KS34]

On the same but different subject (I confuse myself sometimes!) I'm entering open stock production on the 750 anyone else entering OSP in the north?

[racerhead]

Well I was planning on doing the full 600 stock production this year but didnt have the money but at the moment the plan is to do the two north island rounds as work and funds allow.
But next year Ill be doing my best to do the full nationals in the stock production class.

[rd-racer255]

im doing the north isl rounds on a brand new purpose built super stock 2009 zx6r, i hope theres more entering!!!

[racerhead]

im doing the north isl rounds on a brand new purpose built super stock 2009 zx6r, i hope theres more entering!!!

Ill be doing the Manfield round in 600 stock production and after that the bike is up for sale so hopefully who ever buys it will be out there in 2011

[slowpoke]

Not in the mood for reading rules at the mo, but so long as I could do pipe and shocks, I'd think it was a better class than the superstock thous. To run at the front of that class ya need the latest bike, and I dont know anyone who can afford that every season.

Nah, I reckon the difference in riders and experience is way more than the difference in bikes from one year to the next. I look at what Sketchy did on the K5(?) GSXR600 and TonyOk on his original 06CBR1000RR and there's some serious speed there. It's not like there's 30 bikes in the class racing/testing week in week out exploiting minor weaknesses.

Just run what ya brung, get a taste for the different tracks (the 'Stock classes only exist at Nationals level) and take it from there. Worrying about not having the lastest bike is putting the cart before the horse I reckon.

[Drew]

Nah, I reckon the difference in riders and experience is way more than the difference in bikes from one year to the next. I look at what Sketchy did on the K5(?) GSXR600 and TonyOk on his original 06CBR1000RR and there's some serious speed there. It's not like there's 30 bikes in the class racing/testing week in week out exploiting minor weaknesses.

Just run what ya brung, get a taste for the different tracks (the 'Stock classes only exist at Nationals level) and take it from there. Worrying about not having the lastest bike is putting the cart before the horse I reckon.

There is simply no-one winning nationals premier classes on a bike that isn't the current model though.

I want to win races, not start them knowing it cant be done.

[Peter Smith]

I just took a look at the MyLaps champion points, and there is only one guy in the 600 stock class and only one guy in the 1000 stock class. Surely they will scrap the stock championship this year.

[Nonbeliever]

I want to win races, not start them knowing it cant be done.

if everyone had that attitude the fields would be very very very small.

[Nonbeliever]

I just took a look at the MyLaps champion points, and there is only one guy in the 600 stock class and only one guy in the 1000 stock class. Surely they will scrap the stock championship this year.

yeah, the "new" class hasnt worked for getting more entries so far.

I'd have another two classes run seperatley to sbk and ss.

a 600 and a 1000 "streetbike" class where you are limited to a pipe,pc,air filter,braided lines,pads,chain/sprockets and STREET tyres (not dot legal race rubber) with a limit of 1 front and 2 rears per meeting.This would be a far more cost effective class without the big dollar outlay on suspension,tyres etc and get more people on the track with similar spec bikes for some close racing.

I'd can sidecars and streetstock and clubmans etc and limit national meets to :

sbk, ss ,1000streetbike, 600 streetbike ,125gp

Just my opinion I know some will dissagree

[Billy]

I just took a look at the MyLaps champion points, and there is only one guy in the 600 stock class and only one guy in the 1000 stock class. Surely they will scrap the stock championship this year.

Hopefully NOT!In fact the best thing they could do would be dump Production Superbike and 600sp in favour of these 2 classes and reintroduce F1 and F2 at national level.The current format is clearly NOT working and it appears too me no matter who is at the helm of MNZ,The format remains the same,Isnt it the first sign of insanity doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result ???.Its obvious too me the whole National series needs a revamp,There are 10 races a year for production superbike and 600sp,All the rest are F1 and F2 and yet the experts turn up at a winter series meet and ask, Why dont all these people come too our National meetings

[lostinflyz]

yeah, the "new" class hasnt worked for getting more entries so far.

I'd have another two classes run seperatley to sbk and ss.

a 600 and a 1000 "streetbike" class where you are limited to a pipe,pc,air filter,braided lines,pads,chain/sprockets and STREET tyres (not dot legal race rubber) with a limit of 1 front and 2 rears per meeting.This would be a far more cost effective class without the big dollar outlay on suspension,tyres etc and get more people on the track with similar spec bikes for some close racing.

I'd can sidecars and streetstock and clubmans etc and limit national meets to :

sbk, ss ,1000streetbike, 600 streetbike ,125gp

Just my opinion I know some will dissagree

its not even really the first year of the class as most poepl had no idea it started yet. so to judge it a failure is somewhat unfair.

why would you have 2x 1000 and 2 x 600 cc classes??? the costs for supersport/superbike and streetbike wont be excessively different. you still need the same spares catalogue, plenty of tyres, most the race gear and a new bike. its just a bit more managable, but as with all motorsport, someone will spend more and go faster. with those classes you elimate anyone with a annual budget less than what, 15 odd grand as a barebones runner club/nats runner. You'd end up with 2 x races classes competing with each other for talent, and dulling out the racing in sbk/600 and your new streetbike class.

i also note you canned f3 in your nationals calender, so i am offended.

[Str8 Jacket]

I'd can sidecars and streetstock and clubmans etc and limit national meets to :

sbk, ss ,1000streetbike, 600 streetbike ,125gp

Just my opinion I know some will dissagree

I will disagree. Street Stock had the largest grids in all the South Island Nationals.

Where do you think people learn how to race? Believe it or not you can just jump on a Superbike and be the 'next big thng'. Just something to think about....

[Nonbeliever]

i also note you canned f3 in your nationals calender, so i am offended.

I did overlook f3, and yes f3 would be included.

The "streetbike" class is aimed at the guys who dont enter sbk or 600ss because of cost

It would not have a 5year homologation rule,more like 10years.
The cost would be alot lower than trying to compete in the top class, especially in the tyre department with limitation to 2 rears and 1 front per meeting,no wets ,no need for spare wheels,no big dollar suspension,no big dollar engine work.
Aimed at a guy (or girl) that wants to race against similar machines.A field of 2000 and later model litrebikes and 600's with little mods at a budget all on a similar "playing field". So wrong??

[Nonbeliever]

I will disagree. Street Stock had the largest grids in all the South Island Nationals.

Where do you think people learn how to race? Believe it or not you can just jump on a Superbike and be the 'next big thng'. Just something to think about....

sure,but the meetings do have time constraints and streetstocks are ran at club meetings are they not? club meetings are where people learn to race.

[Str8 Jacket]

sure,but the meetings do have time constraints and streetstocks are ran at club meetings are they not? club meetings are where people learn to race.

Well in that logic so do all the other classes.

Im not going to debate with you though. Streetstock has it haters and I dont really care.

[Nonbeliever]

Well in that logic so do all the other classes.

Im not going to debate with you though. Streetstock has it haters and I dont really care.

Imnot a hater of streetstock at all,but with my idea (like it or not) some classes would have to be cut, and streetstock and sidecars would be two of them,due to time constraints at the meetings otherwise you get into the situation of classes missing out on races,having prectices cut etc etc

[lostinflyz]

if you want to do ok (pretty much everyone) you'd need a modern-ish bike. if it was this year id say you'd need at least a 06.

the costs are lower than the top class but not by a whole heap. I mean 2 rears 1 front is still near enough to a 1000 bucks a weekend. If you've got no shock mods your going to be struggling to get your tyres to last that distance. no wets is crazy, i wouldn't bother racing in a class that banned wets, its suicide if your trying. policing these type of classes would be nigh on impossible.

you would save money on engine mods and suspension, exhausts but thats about it. The running costs of 600/1000 has shown to stop even very good racers in their tracks regardless of state of tune. buying and setting up the bike is easier than running it.

As i said before you'd end up with the sbk/600 grids getting smaller and having a whole lots of really short grids. Having gone round nats this year so far i've gotta say alot of people find excuses not to do it, and regardless of the class or costs most wont show up no matter what if they are gonna be made to look slow. and no matter what the intention, some really quick guys are going to end up in every class and make alot of people look really slow.

[Kickaha]

Imnot a hater of streetstock at all,but with my idea (like it or not) some classes would have to be cut, and streetstock and sidecars would be two of them,due to time constraints at the meetings otherwise you get into the situation of classes missing out on races,having prectices cut etc etc

Up until this year sidecars quite frequently feilded bigger feilds than SBK and the only reason we didn't this year was being shafted by MNZ, I think they should can the litre bikes and give the rest of us more laps



I want to win races, not start them knowing it cant be done.

Sell that crappy solo and buy Scrivys housebus powered outfit, it'll get you right up the pointy end

[Drew]

if everyone had that attitude the fields would be very very very small.


Yeah, nobody wants to win races. Everybody loves to think their bike isn't competitive too.

There are certainly people out there racing on whatever they can afford, (including me), but you think that those people can buy brand new bikes just because they dont need to spend extra money opening up the motor. Over half the super stock bikes out there are pretty much off the shop floor powered already, but fuck all of them are the current model.

[Nonbeliever]

if you want to do ok (pretty much everyone) you'd need a modern-ish bike. if it was this year id say you'd need at least a 06.

the costs are lower than the top class but not by a whole heap. I mean 2 rears 1 front is still near enough to a 1000 bucks a weekend. If you've got no shock mods your going to be struggling to get your tyres to last that distance. no wets is crazy, i wouldn't bother racing in a class that banned wets, its suicide if your trying.



STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike

[Drew]

Sell that crappy solo and buy Scrivys housebus powered outfit, it'll get you right up the pointy endGood thinkin, you wanna increase your rigs ponies? Ten grand will get ya my motor, comes wrapped in pagaging that bares striking resemblance to a GIXXER thou.

[Nonbeliever]

Up until this year sidecars quite frequently feilded bigger feilds than SBK and the only reason we didn't this year was being shafted by MNZ, I think they should can the litre bikes and give the rest of us more laps


at levels there were 6 rigs? with a 20second difference (per lap!!!!)1st-last right?

sorry but where's the attraction in that?

[Drew]

STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike

I run supercorsers on the road, that makes 'em street rubber in my book. Give me an axample of your idea of "street rubber" please.

[Drew]

at levels there were 6 rigs? with a 20second difference 1st-last right?

sorry but where's the attraction in that?
And last year there were a total of 9 superbikes, with A LAP between first and last. What is your point?

[lostinflyz]

STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike

top guys want to be top where they can, if they cant win sbk/600, they (well some) will go to a streetbike class or a lower level.. the racing will be no closer than anywhere else. as you said club racing is for club racers. nats is for those who take racing a little more serious. I cant see john doe taking 2 weeks off to come to the south island, or heading up north 2 months in a rown for just a bit of close racing.

as for street tyres, i've never seen a decent rider push them so i have no idea what they would do on a 600/1000. as for riding them in the wet, i know you'd end up with 1/3 the grid finishing,1/3 the grid in the gravel trap and 1/3 the grid still in the pits. its just way to expensive to crash a modern 600/1000, particularly in the wet, flipping it through gravel traps.

[Drew]

as for street tyres, i've never seen a decent rider push them so i have no idea what they would do on a 600/1000. as for riding them in the wet, i know you'd end up with 1/3 the grid finishing,1/3 the grid in the gravel trap and 1/3 the grid still in the pits. its just way to expensive to crash a modern 600/1000, particularly in the wet, flipping it through gravel traps.

Dunno about decent rider, but sports tourers are not a good tyre for the track on a thou. My K2 would destroy a set in a couple sessions at Manfield.

[Biggles08]

Couldn't agree more Billy! It seems silly changing the rules for the nationals when every other race meeting is based on F1 and F2 rules. I guess it has something to do with trying to maintain some uniformity internationally or something.
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[Kickaha]

Couldn't agree more Billy! It seems silly changing the rules for the nationals when every other race meeting is based on F1 and F2 rules. I guess it has something to do with trying to maintain some uniformity internationally or something.


The other meetings are based on F1/F2 to get more bikes on the grid that don't comply with the current 600/SBK rules

Did you get anymore crash videos from levels to show us;)

[k14]

STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike
And you know this how? If you chucked on a set of (insert touring tyre brand/model here) and rode them hard they would be terrible. I can gaurantee there would be crashes galore because they are being used for a purpose for which they weren't designed. That and the fact they would probably last less than the current dot tyres that get used.

If they did the classes you suggest all that would happen is the current classes would be diluted more. There was 19 600's at ruapuna, what is the problem there? Yes there have only been ~10 superbikes but that is an improvement on last year and hopefully next year there will be a few more.

[Drew]

I dont think the numbers issue in NZ racing can be solved with class changes alone anyway.

Yep, this would be an exciting class along with stock 1000's. But it's not a cheap alternative to anything. 600's are a cheap alternative to a thou now, yet the numbers aren't great.

Starting new classes at the nationals is a balls up to my mind too. Club racing is where things should be implemented and established first. And it's MNZ's job to make that happen, ("to grow the sport").

[Peter Smith]

As I've mention before, The BIGGEST problem with the future of motorcycle road racing is that the youngsters today aren't interested in bikes.
E.G. Pukekohe had a drift car meeting and it was packed, 2 weekend later the bikes are there and only a handful of spectators turned up.
A good second hand 600 costs $10,000 so they buy a skyline instead.
The loss of the 250 proddy class many years ago, lost the stepping stone for beginners to get to 600's. (Tony Rees etc started on 250's)
And to be honest the 600's today are very quick and not really suited for beginners.
The introduction of the 250 class again is a great idea but may take a while to get back to the levels of the early days. (I must be getting old to remember them)

[KS34]

And it's MNZ's job to make that happen, ("to grow the sport").

I think youve hit the nail on the head Drew! I've been talking to my sponsors or more acurately suppliers with discount and Motorcycle racing is an unknown, Fuck all people know much about it, Slotmedia a sponsor also sponsors drifting and speedway and the exposure and people that go to those sports that spend money is huge, at drift meets there are full car parks with guys and girls itching to spend money we dont have that in bike racing, MNZ have only managed to get two rounds televised and christ knows what has happened to the first and we dont have any highlights on the news! What I'm trying to say is MNZ have to get the profile of the sport up so it gets tv coverage so we can get sponsors so we can race and so we get bigger grids. We have a great spectacle its just no one knows or is interested in it.

[KS34]

As I've mention before, The BIGGEST problem with the future of motorcycle road racing is that the youngsters today aren't interested in bikes.
E.G. Pukekohe had a drift car meeting and it was packed, 2 weekend later the bikes are there and only a handful of spectators turned up.
A good second hand 600 costs $10,000 so they buy a skyline instead.
The loss of the 250 proddy class many years ago, lost the stepping stone for beginners to get to 600's. (Tony Rees etc started on 250's)
And to be honest the 600's today are very quick and not really suited for beginners.
The introduction of the 250 class again is a great idea but may take a while to get back to the levels of the early days. (I must be getting old to remember them)
Thats another great point.

[slowpoke]

There is simply no-one winning nationals premier classes on a bike that isn't the current model though.

I want to win races, not start them knowing it cant be done.

I dunno mate, if Stroudy or Robbie was on their old well sorted K7/8 gsxr's I reckon they'd still be well in the hunt. James Smith and Choppa have shown they are still very competitive.....and all for less than the cost of a new GSXR, and less than half the cost of a K9 RCMP GSXR. Bargain.

Can't win=no race? So why even race at Club level then? Sketchy hands us our arse on a plate on a lousy 600, and like it or not he always will. We've all got our different motivations but to me it's like sex, even coming last is still fun.

On your logic you'll never enter the National's even if you were cashed up. There's no way you'll rock up to a new track and win, therefore you'd never race.


Hopefully NOT!In fact the best thing they could do would be dump Production Superbike and 600sp in favour of these 2 classes and reintroduce F1 and F2 at national level.The current format is clearly NOT working and it appears too me no matter who is at the helm of MNZ,The format remains the same,Isnt it the first sign of insanity doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result ???.Its obvious too me the whole National series needs a revamp,There are 10 races a year for production superbike and 600sp,All the rest are F1 and F2 and yet the experts turn up at a winter series meet and ask, Why dont all these people come too our National meetings

Yep, couldn't agree more, and exactly the reason why I bought a full monty Superbike after seriously considering a Stock bike: for the same money I got a bike that is going to be a far more competitive Club/Street race bike over a longer period of time. It was a no brainer when I did the figures.

I also know a couple of folks who would have seriously considered entering but for the lack of a homologated bike. And as per the F3 guys it can be cost effective in the longer term with upgrading/improving your existing bike rather than turfing the whole lot and starting again every coupla years.

Then again the series is part funded by the manufacturers so it's fair enough that they want to showcase new(er) bikes.

[slowpoke]

[QUOTE=Peter Smith;1129637214] The loss of the 250 proddy class many years ago, lost the stepping stone for beginners to get to 600's. (Tony Rees etc started on 250's)
And to be honest the 600's today are very quick and not really suited for beginners.
The introduction of the 250 class again is a great idea but may take a while to get back to the levels of the early days. (I must be getting old to remember them)

Nah, I don't really agree with this. In a way we've almost got too many avenues for folks to progress through the ranks. If I was a 16year old on a streetstock looking to progress through the ranks there are a heap of options: GP125, Clubman's, post classic's, pro-twins, F3, old 600, all of which give an intermediate option to the latest and greatest 600 for much less than $10k. The options are there, look how much young Ivan wants for what looks like a very tidy pro-twin bike ($5500, you owe me for the plug young fulla))....I mean how much cheaper do you want it?

I kinda think the difference between now and the old 250 proddy days is that 250 proddy's were the only sort of lightweight class, with just about everyone transiting through it which had huge knock on effects in the quality of the racing and riders it produced. Those same classes bikes/classes applied to today would probably see Glen Williams, Avalon Biddle, Sam Love, Sketchy, Hoogie's galore, Terry Fitzgerald, Jay Lawrence, Kirk Pritchard, Neil Chappell etc etc all battling away in one class, because that was the only stepping stone. Instead they're strewn across several classes, and the new 250 class is just going to further dilute things 'cos people will go where they can get the best result, not the best competition. They'd rather finish 3rd in a field of 6 pro twins than 10th in a field of 30 250's.

[Billy]

Yep, couldn't agree more, and exactly the reason why I bought a full monty Superbike after seriously considering a Stock bike: for the same money I got a bike that is going to be a far more competitive Club/Street race bike over a longer period of time. It was a no brainer when I did the figures.

I also know a couple of folks who would have seriously considered entering but for the lack of a homologated bike. And as per the F3 guys it can be cost effective in the longer term with upgrading/improving your existing bike rather than turfing the whole lot and starting again every coupla years.

Then again the series is part funded by the manufacturers so it's fair enough that they want to showcase new(er) bikes.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point,By running a 1000 and 600 superstock class as well as F1 and F2 it gives everyone a result.Sure its not going to make a huge difference to the amount of people doing the whole series,But it will be more encouraging for people to participate at their local round and easier for the lesser riders to qualify as they would be on the more powerful machinery.Add to that the new 250 pro light class and the sport would definitely be moving in the right direction.We have already developed a competitively priced body kit for the Kawasaki EX250 and are currently working with Fergus and Ken from Hyosung NZ in developing kits for both the early and new fuel injected models of their 250 range.Both these distributors are commited to this new class as are we

[Drew]

I dunno mate, if Stroudy or Robbie was on their old well sorted K7/8 gsxr's I reckon they'd still be well in the hunt. James Smith and Choppa have shown they are still very competitive.....and all for less than the cost of a new GSXR, and less than half the cost of a K9 RCMP GSXR. Bargain.

Can't win=no race? So why even race at Club level then? Sketchy hands us our arse on a plate on a lousy 600, and like it or not he always will. We've all got our different motivations but to me it's like sex, even coming last is still fun.

You've got me wrong bro. I tried to be more clear in the post that followed the one you quoted.

[lostinflyz]

I think youve hit the nail on the head Drew! I've been talking to my sponsors or more acurately suppliers with discount and Motorcycle racing is an unknown, Fuck all people know much about it, Slotmedia a sponsor also sponsors drifting and speedway and the exposure and people that go to those sports that spend money is huge, at drift meets there are full car parks with guys and girls itching to spend money we dont have that in bike racing, MNZ have only managed to get two rounds televised and christ knows what has happened to the first and we dont have any highlights on the news! What I'm trying to say is MNZ have to get the profile of the sport up so it gets tv coverage so we can get sponsors so we can race and so we get bigger grids. We have a great spectacle its just no one knows or is interested in it.

as someone who always bags MNZ as per above, i do have to say they dont do too bad. comparing exposure (ok no TV, but generally there is newspaper articles, online coverage, twattering ect) and the size of crowds at all south island meetings, this years nats has had what i would have called pretty good crowd numbers and some reasonably good exposure (tv ads, newspapers, radio commercials ect).

Although its probably not what once was, its has a reasonable base from which to grow, and thats got to be an acceptable start. Too expect a TV deal is to try and acheive something that is realistically beyond the capabilities and popularity of the nz race screen, and would likely cost more than the benefit it could possibly solve.

I think we need to accept that racing alone is not enough to generate the publicity alone and look at it more creatively. I can say from here events like the burt munro challenge probably get the most main stream coverage of any motorcycle event in NZ???

anyway gone off topic so back to 600's. Having f1 and f2 reintroduced would merely make factory teams faster and life more expensive. You cant underestimate what the dealers and properly supported crews bring and give to NZ road racing, so catering to them a bit is not a poor idea, especially if it can help the less supported privateer. It hasn't helped plenty of foreign race series and bodies alienating those who bring the most to the table.

[slowpoke]

You've got me wrong bro. I tried to be more clear in the post that followed the one you quoted.

Haha, yep that's me, fall into a bucket of nipples and come up sucking my own thumb......



anyway gone off topic so back to 600's. Having f1 and f2 reintroduced would merely make factory teams faster and life more expensive. You cant underestimate what the dealers and properly supported crews bring and give to NZ road racing, so catering to them a bit is not a poor idea, especially if it can help the less supported privateer. It hasn't helped plenty of foreign race series and bodies alienating those who bring the most to the table.

Yeah, it's a tough situation to balance. But anything that gets say Peter Tanner on his RSVR Factory, Johan on his 998 Duc, the guy in Christchurch with the Moto-Guzzi MGS-01, Andrew Forward's 1198R etc etc on the grid has to be good for the spectacle and the sport, 'cos they're all ineligible at the moment. They might as well open it up, the new BMW S1000R is gonna set the cat amongst the pigeons with it's quick shifter, traction control etc as standard.

[lostinflyz]

Haha, yep that's me, fall into a bucket of nipples and come up sucking my own thumb......



Yeah, it's a tough situation to balance. But anything that gets say Peter Tanner on his RSVR Factory, Johan on his 998 Duc, the guy in Christchurch with the Moto-Guzzi MGS-01, Andrew Forward's 1198R etc etc on the grid has to be good for the spectacle and the sport, 'cos they're all ineligible at the moment. They might as well open it up, the new BMW S1000R is gonna set the cat amongst the pigeons with it's quick shifter, traction control etc as standard.

yea i agree there are a few guys that it would be great to get in there i have to agree. didn't we once allow the britten to race sbk?????

[oyster]

as someone who always bags MNZ as per above, i do have to say they dont do too bad. comparing exposure (ok no TV, but generally there is newspaper articles, online coverage, twattering ect) and the size of crowds at all south island meetings, this years nats has had what i would have called pretty good crowd numbers and some reasonably good exposure (tv ads, newspapers, radio commercials ect).

Although its probably not what once was, its has a reasonable base from which to grow, and thats got to be an acceptable start. Too expect a TV deal is to try and acheive something that is realistically beyond the capabilities and popularity of the nz race screen, and would likely cost more than the benefit it could possibly solve.

I think we need to accept that racing alone is not enough to generate the publicity alone and look at it more creatively. I can say from here events like the burt munro challenge probably get the most main stream coverage of any motorcycle event in NZ???

anyway gone off topic so back to 600's. Having f1 and f2 reintroduced would merely make factory teams faster and life more expensive. You cant underestimate what the dealers and properly supported crews bring and give to NZ road racing, so catering to them a bit is not a poor idea, especially if it can help the less supported privateer. It hasn't helped plenty of foreign race series and bodies alienating those who bring the most to the table.

I agree entirely. For the minuscule size of our sport, we do very well with the exposure/promotion we get.
The GP meeting at Ruapuna was huge, big crowds, trade stalls and at lunchtime you could hardly move in the
pits. It was humming. Is this MNZ's job? Of course not, it's the local club's job. That means you, me, rolled up sleeves making it happen. "MNZ" (to people want to bag it), are a very small group of elected volunteers
that WE elect to represent us. If you don't like it, get in there and fix it. As any commissioner or board
member if they'd like some constructive help. No need to tell the answer.....
And the comment re youth not interested. Rubbish, it's up to the clubs to attract them and support
them. They're interested alright, look at the youth (in BIG quantities) on both sides of the pit wall at the
GP meeting. If other clubs do nothing for them, and focus on "dumbed down" clubman and classic
style classes that have no career paths to the top, then it's understandable there will be little interest.
If they provide Streetstock, pro twin, 125GP etc with good recruitment and support structure,
it'll work very well.
Please note I love classics, and youth has a place here too( I took a team of 6 teenagers on Girder forks
to the BM) but it's all needed in balance

[oyster]

Add to that the new 250 pro light class and the sport would definitely be moving in the right direction.We have already developed a competitively priced body kit for the Kawasaki EX250 and are currently working with Fergus and Ken from Hyosung NZ in developing kits for both the early and new fuel injected models of their 250 range.Both these distributors are commited to this new class as are we[/QUOTE]

The purpose of the 250 twin is to provide "technical insurance" as the 150 two stroke ages beyond
viability. Being new models and the" industry interest" could make a diffrence, but that remains to be seen.
2 of them (EX 250's) ran in the South Island Nationals Streetstock support series and went really well.
Two wins at Teretonga went to an EX 250. But Seth Devereax rode it , and he is currently one of
the best SS riders (winner if the Sportz Fotoz Cup) and thisis his home circuit. He would have gone
much quicker on his regular 2 stroke 150 for sure. But it showed the Ex is VERY close over 3 circuits,
wet and dry, so this is good news as they become more popular in Streetstock.

The 250 twin will not be the "silver bullet" to solve all problems. It is 98% of a Streetstock bike at
4 times the price so the real effort needs to be in the CLASS (Streetsock) development by the clubs. The bike alone
wont change anything (apart from industry interest, as above, if it comes) I must mention Seth's bike was sponsored by Kawaski NZ. Good on them Thanks Kawasaki!!

[wharfy]

yea i agree there are a few guys that it would be great to get in there i have to agree. didn't we once allow the britten to race sbk?????

Indeed and that was not without its share of controvery !!
The main problem I see is at the moment we only have about a dozen guys CAPABLE of keeping on the same lap as Budgen/Stroudy/Choppa etc in the premier class.
How we improve the number I don't know, things like streetstock in South and the Moto Academy are a good start.

[lostinflyz]

Indeed and that was not without its share of controvery !!
The main problem I see is at the moment we only have about a dozen guys CAPABLE of keeping on the same lap as Budgen/Stroudy/Choppa etc in the premier class.
How we improve the number I don't know, things like streetstock in South and the Moto Academy are a good start.

Motogp is often quite happy when 12 guys finish on the lead lap. When it comes to guys like stroudy and robbie i think you have to accept that their pace is gonna be well beyond even most of the good. thats talent and usually someones gotta a significant amount more than everyone else.

[JayRacer37]

Just get an old bike and go racing. For the hell of it. Isn't that what we all want, and why we started? For the love of it?? You can't make racing a bike cheaper, and we currently have ALL the options covered. If you want a cheap mid capacity - get a pro twin. If your a novice - you have streetstock. You want to spend some money and race the fastest thing? There are a few poeple on here racing superbike. You could get Drews for 10K, that bike has done lap times close to whats winning nationals now, there's no reason it or something similar couldn't again. How about 600's? The best class at nationals I've heard, and really, they're not that difficult/expensive to run. My bike is just an old 06 R6, with outdated shock and forks. Its eligible for the stock class (with the original headers slung back on). But why would I want to dilute down 600SP? Why do we need a 2nd class, with the same bikes, and a slightly different set of rules? If I can race my bike into the top 5 at nationals, theres no reason someone like Nick Cole or Jimmy Smith wouldn't be able to race it for the win (and maybe i'll be able to later in the season). If you have a race bike in your shed, regardless of class (even clubmans, for those 1198S's and whatnot (though they should go in SBK, thats another argument), you should be out at your local national round at least and making a show of it. Stop making excuses - get out racing, thats what you have it for!

[Tony.OK]

Yup.......just race what ya got and enjoy, or do what I did and think ya need the lastest thing then over committ and completely fuck yerself up financially and mentally.....no wait, I was already a miserable sod haha.

I know what I'd do if I could choose again :)

[gammaguy]

racing costs money

so does drinking,drugs and clubbing

its all about choices and i know what i would rather be doing.racing motorcycles gives an addictive combination of pain,pleasure,reward and sacrifice that no drug can compete with.

sadly i dont have the time to race competitively these days,but i still love my trackday fix!

enjoying it is what it is all about,winning is the icing on the cake.

[slowpoke]

Just get an old bike and go racing. For the hell of it. Isn't that what we all want, and why we started? For the love of it?? You can't make racing a bike cheaper, and we currently have ALL the options covered. If you want a cheap mid capacity - get a pro twin. If your a novice - you have streetstock. You want to spend some money and race the fastest thing? There are a few poeple on here racing superbike. You could get Drews for 10K, that bike has done lap times close to whats winning nationals now, there's no reason it or something similar couldn't again. How about 600's? The best class at nationals I've heard, and really, they're not that difficult/expensive to run. My bike is just an old 06 R6, with outdated shock and forks. Its eligible for the stock class (with the original headers slung back on). But why would I want to dilute down 600SP? Why do we need a 2nd class, with the same bikes, and a slightly different set of rules? If I can race my bike into the top 5 at nationals, theres no reason someone like Nick Cole or Jimmy Smith wouldn't be able to race it for the win (and maybe i'll be able to later in the season). If you have a race bike in your shed, regardless of class (even clubmans, for those 1198S's and whatnot (though they should go in SBK, thats another argument), you should be out at your local national round at least and making a show of it. Stop making excuses - get out racing, thats what you have it for!

Great post mate! You'd think we were racing for sheep stations, when it's just a bunch of petrol heads goin' round and round. Who cares if your bike is competitive, or even if you are, so long as you are on the right side of the fence doin' skids it's all good.

Was good to see you enjoyin' yourself out there again....next year for the beemer in race trim eh?

[Rcktfsh]

250 production wasn't treated as just a beginner class but also attracted top riders, riders such as Robert Holden and Bob Toomey for example in '84 raced senior prod on GSX1135's, junior prod on GSX550's & 250 prod on RG's. Wellington Motorcycle Centre's no3 rider that season Eddie Kattenburg only got to race the 550 & 1135 but did win a 250 tt title 3 or 4 years later on a TZR. John Boote the rider who gave the TZ700 it's world debut in 1973 was racing 250 prod in 1985 as well as junior prod on a GPZ600. Glen Williams MK1 would also do duty over the 3 production classes at a meeting. Its pretty hard to think of any top riders of the era who didn't race the class at some stage, Stroudie still gets nostalgic about his TZR wishing he could corner his Superbike as hard as he did it. There where big benefits for new riders being able to race on a levelish playing field against the best riders of the day, imagine the effect of a few top riders of today going out in ss150 on the moral of the class. Actually for a rider like Sketchy for example going round the South Island tracks for the 1st time this year a 150 in the trailer would have given him a doubling of track time for bugger all cost.

[roogazza]

250 production wasn't treated as just a beginner class but also attracted top riders, riders such as Robert Holden and Bob Toomey for example in '84 raced senior prod on GSX1135's, junior prod on GSX550's & 250 prod on RG's. Wellington Motorcycle Centre's no3 rider that season Eddie Kattenburg only got to race the 550 & 1135 but did win a 250 tt title 3 or 4 years later on a TZR. John Boote the rider who gave the TZ700 it's world debut in 1973 was racing 250 prod in 1985 as well as junior prod on a GPZ600. Glen Williams MK1 would also do duty over the 3 production classes at a meeting. Its pretty hard to think of any top riders of the era who didn't race the class at some stage, Stroudie still gets nostalgic about his TZR wishing he could corner his Superbike as hard as he did it. There where big benefits for new riders being able to race on a levelish playing field against the best riders of the day, imagine the effect of a few top riders of today going out in ss150 on the moral of the class. Actually for a rider like Sketchy for example going round the South Island tracks for the 1st time this year a 150 in the trailer would have given him a doubling of track time for bugger all cost.
We can say it over and over, but things change. Is it no wonder that the 'older' amongst us wander around with big knowing smiles, that we had the very best years ?? !!! Gaz.

[SWERVE]

If i remember correctly earlier in the year at a MCC event 2 "top riders" did have a ride in Streetstock as a moral booster for the youngsters.
Dennis Charlett & Dan Ormsby....................... Dennis fell at first corner.............Dan blew it up................. or maybe the pace was just tooooooooo much eh.
Im sure that wa s the outcome........correct me if im wrong ...pete!

[wharfy]

JIf you have a race bike in your shed, regardless of class (even clubmans, for those 1198S's and whatnot (though they should go in SBK, thats another argument), you should be out at your local national round at least and making a show of it. Stop making excuses - get out racing, thats what you have it for!

I'll probably just stick to club racing and the street events, maybe a support class at Nationals if they have BEARS or Clubmans (even though my bike is cabable of running in the top ten in 600SP with a half decent rider).

[Shaun]

I'll probably just stick to club racing and the street events, maybe a support class at Nationals if they have BEARS or Clubmans (even though my bike is cabable of running in the top ten in 600SP with a half decent rider).



Come to Manfield and Hampton mate, you will do A OK, and will be pleased/surprised with what you learn whilst in amongst all the faster riders

[lostinflyz]

I'll probably just stick to club racing and the street events, maybe a support class at Nationals if they have BEARS or Clubmans (even though my bike is cabable of running in the top ten in 600SP with a half decent rider).

if you can hit to the 115% lap time, then you SHOULD be in 600SP. set yourself a goal and go for it, whats the worst that can happen.

[JayRacer37]

I'll probably just stick to club racing and the street events, maybe a support class at Nationals if they have BEARS or Clubmans (even though my bike is cabable of running in the top ten in 600SP with a half decent rider).


Come to Manfield and Hampton mate, you will do A OK, and will be pleased/surprised with what you learn whilst in amongst all the faster riders

Agree with Shaun 100% mate. You will have a ball, and learn a ton.

[roogazza]

if you can hit to the 115% lap time, then you SHOULD be in 600SP.
As a matter of interest, can someone do the calculation for the 115% for 600's at Manfeild ? I don't know what they do nowdays. G.

[Rcktfsh]

As a matter of interest, can someone do the calculation for the 115% for 600's at Manfeild ? I don't know what they do nowdays. G.

approx 1.19 in the dry

[slowpoke]

As a matter of interest, can someone do the calculation for the 115% for 600's at Manfeild ? I don't know what they do nowdays. G.

That raises an interesting point: do the 600/1000 "Stock" bikes have to qualify within 115% of the Supersport/Suprbikes? Or do they have to qualify within 115% of the fastest 600/1000 "Stock" bike?

[roogazza]

approx 1.19 in the dry

Ta, that should be a pretty easy target for a young person, shouldn't it ? If not , maybe they could take up knitting instead ! G.

[Billy]

Ta, that should be a pretty easy target for a young person, shouldn't it ? If not , maybe they could take up knitting instead ! G.

Yip,1.19s would have netted you around 15th - 20th place at manfeild round of the Nats 1989 250 prod

[Shaun]

That raises an interesting point: do the 600/1000 "Stock" bikes have to qualify within 115% of the Supersport/Suprbikes? Or do they have to qualify within 115% of the fastest 600/1000 "Stock" bike?


Qualify to your own class rules

[FROSTY]

ohh billy you mean 250 "prod" doncha?? No sir that aint porting its just the shit nikasil

[Billy]

ohh billy you mean 250 "prod" doncha?? No sir that aint porting its just the shit nikasil

Yeah and the much talked about cheating that went on in 250 production stopped when that class was canned,Aye "Yea Right".I know of 2 bikes currently running in 600sp that definitely wouldnt pass a thorough tech check and the funny thing is,With all the 250s racing back in the 80s in 250 prod I only ever remember 1 actually being caught cheating,Fucken lot of talk in those days,But no money where the mouth was action,Funny that.

Oh and it was chrome that was peeling not Nickasel,The japanese factories werent using nickasel back then and if you read the rulebook of the day,You were permitted to remove "loose dags" from the port area was how the rule went LOL

[FROSTY]

I dangle in the hook with a teeny tiny bit of bait and you bite like a kingy mate :-)
Do ya remember the sudden need to go pee when in 87 the organisers anounced the top three bikes would be checked they were production.??
Funnyest thing I ever saw was in the arvo one frontrunner had a perfect imprint of his front sprocket in grease on the front of his tee shirt.

[Billy]

I dangle in the hook with a teeny tiny bit of bait and you bite like a kingy mate :-)
Do ya remember the sudden need to go pee when in 87 the organisers anounced the top three bikes would be checked they were production.??
Funnyest thing I ever saw was in the arvo one frontrunner had a perfect imprint of his front sprocket in grease on the front of his tee shirt.
Yip and I remember the 86 two hour where a certain Aucklander rode his bike out of the pits,Never to be seen again when asked to bring it over for a technical check.Still doesnt answer the question though,Do you think the cheating stopped or in fact even started with 250 prod ?

I mean,There were never any oversize F3 or F2 bikes aye!Or senior proddy bikes running on 10-20% methanol or with 6 speed gearboxes when the current model only had 5 or special models that only existed in Wanga... Oops I mean NZ or 600 proddy bikes that werent even homologated too race here and on and on it goes.Funny how you never hear much about that stuff huh

[FROSTY]

yeeeha ride that bronco. It isn't cheating Its rule interpretation.

[FROSTY]

But anyhoo. I guess its pretty sad that people feel they have to cheat when theres basicly nothing but personal pride at stake. i can sorta understand when you are dealing with millions of dollars in sponsorship money etc

[Drew]

Christ, 115% of 68sec lap is 1m18.2s lap.

Dont have to be much more than a quick road rider to hit those times.

Even if they were doing 1m6s at the front ya only gotta do 1m15s

[wharfy]

if you can hit to the 115% lap time, then you SHOULD be in 600SP. set yourself a goal and go for it, whats the worst that can happen.

Umm...worst case. I could crash at Dunlop and take out series leader James Smith as he's lapping me and we both die .... :)

[JayRacer37]

Umm...worst case. I could crash at Dunlop and take out series leader James Smith as he's lapping me and we both die .... :)

Likely case? You have a ball, learn more in one weekend than you have in one winter series, and are involved in some great racing for yourself, without hindering the leaders.

Best case? You find out you just needed to ride harder and puff the lot of us??? Could happen... :)

[JayRacer37]

Christ, 115% of 68sec lap is 1m18.2s lap.

Dont have to be much more than a quick road rider to hit those times.

Even if they were doing 1m6s at the front ya only gotta do 1m15s

Yep, getting within 10sec of the leaders shouldn't be too hard, even on an older bike...Luke would damn near qualifiy on JLo...haha :D

[Drew]

Yep, getting within 10sec of the leaders shouldn't be too hard, even on an older bike...Luke would damn near qualifiy on JLo...haha :D

1m13s he managed on that ol' girl ya know.

[lostinflyz]

Umm...worst case. I could crash at Dunlop and take out series leader James Smith as he's lapping me and we both die .... :)

trust me, Mr. Smith will have no trouble rounding your lifeless carcass, mid air or not. havent you ever seen the matrix.

From my experiences this year, if a guys good enough to lap you, he aint going to run into much trouble passing you.

[JayRacer37]

1m13s he managed on that ol' girl ya know.

Qualify for SBK! Now just to get it a dispensation on its 'age difficulties'. Maybe you could get an old 'Prilla thou to chase him up with?

[Drew]

Qualify for SBK! Now just to get it a dispensation on its 'age difficulties'. Maybe you could get an old 'Prilla thou to chase him up with?

Funny you should say that. Answer is a huge resounding NOPE.

Best I could get a standard on e of those heaps of shit round there was 1m15s

They're old mate. You were nearly still in nappies when they came out for christ sake.

[KS34]

Absolutely no excuses now, NO late entry fee for Manfeild entries now close 23rd Feb.

[Drew]

Absolutely no excuses now, NO late entry fee for Manfeild entries now close 23rd Feb.

Hmmm, if I can scrape some cash up, I could mabey make that.

[Str8 Jacket]

Hmmm, if I can scrape some cash up, I could mabey make that.

hehe, we have a spare bucket and/or SS150... :whistle:

[Robert Taylor]

Yip and I remember the 86 two hour where a certain Aucklander rode his bike out of the pits,Never to be seen again when asked to bring it over for a technical check.Still doesnt answer the question though,Do you think the cheating stopped or in fact even started with 250 prod ?

I mean,There were never any oversize F3 or F2 bikes aye!Or senior proddy bikes running on 10-20% methanol or with 6 speed gearboxes when the current model only had 5 or special models that only existed in Wanga... Oops I mean NZ or 600 proddy bikes that werent even homologated too race here and on and on it goes.Funny how you never hear much about that stuff huh

Heck I remember that day well, that bike was VERY illegal and the rider even looked like a cheat. He sandbagged through the first half of that race, funny how that bike sounded a lot different too....

[KS34]

Hmmm, if I can scrape some cash up, I could mabey make that.

thats the idea save money by not eating just imagine how much quicker you will be with a two week starvation program!!!!!

[Billy]

Heck I remember that day well, that bike was VERY illegal and the rider even looked like a cheat. He sandbagged through the first half of that race, funny how that bike sounded a lot different too....

Funny thing was,If he didnt try too be clever and protest the winning bike at the last minute.He would have been awarded 2nd place and nobody would have said a word.Still he was never caught cheating,In fact he was never seen again.

[slowpoke]

Awwww, ya gotta love a good cheating effort! There's a long and glorious history of it throughout motorsport and reading about Smokey Yunick's brilliant efforts at reading between the lines in NASCAR to Rob McElnea's EXUP 1000 powered OW01 when they got sick of being beaten by the Kawasaki ZXR750 in BSB puts a smile on your face.....at least a few years after the fact anyway.

[roogazza]

Awwww, ya gotta love a good cheating effort! There's a long and glorious history of it throughout motorsport and reading about Smokey Yunick's brilliant efforts at reading between the lines in NASCAR to Rob McElnea's EXUP 1000 powered OW01 when they got sick of being beaten by the Kawasaki ZXR750 in BSB puts a smile on your face.....at least a few years after the fact anyway.
The gains from cheating are usually fairly small (although I know of a few very clever blokes), and you still have to be able to take advantage of the mod as a rider. Two strokes were fun years. G.

[slowpoke]

and you still have to be able to take advantage of the mod as a rider. G.

Hence I never bother, despite some beer fuelled moments of brilliance....

[Shaun]

well how about a rider that used to put a GSXR600 gear box into his GSXR750 a few years ago, giving it like a race box ratio set up???

That would have been a huge gain to him

[Shaun]

Yeah and the much talked about cheating that went on in 250 production stopped when that class was canned,Aye "Yea Right".I know of 2 bikes currently running in 600sp that definitely wouldnt pass a thorough tech check and the funny thing is,With all the 250s racing back in the 80s in 250 prod I only ever remember 1 actually being caught cheating,Fucken lot of talk in those days,But no money where the mouth was action,Funny that.




Oh and it was chrome that was peeling not Nickasel,The japanese factories werent using nickasel back then and if you read the rulebook of the day,You were permitted to remove "loose dags" from the port area was how the rule went LOL

I probally know the same 2 you are talking about Billy, as I know a person who works in a certain machine shop who tells me what is bought in and what is done

But it would actually be very hard to messure a Block that has been machined, not as hard as the head machine work though

[roogazza]

well how about a rider that used to put a GSXR600 gear box into his GSXR750 a few years ago, giving it like a race box ratio set up???

That would have been a huge gain to him

Yep sure, I was more thinking about guys takings a couple of mm off here and there as compared to the famous Dicky Lawton. (araldite!) G.

[wharfy]

Yep sure, I was more thinking about guys takings a couple of mm off here and there as compared to the famous Dicky Lawton. (araldite!) G.

I'm no engine tuner, but I managed to follow most of this thread, right up until now.. How does one use Araldite to gain a "competitive advantage" from a motorcycle ?

[Rcktfsh]

I'm no engine tuner, but I managed to follow most of this thread, right up until now.. How does one use Araldite to gain a "competitive advantage" from a motorcycle ?

Dicky Lawton (NZ greatest ever tuner) used araldite to experiment with port shapes in 2 stroke barrels, easy to add or take out before settling on a final design. I remember seeing a TS400 barrel where the transfer ports extendedout further than the original barrel would heve been. After Keith Turner finished runner up in the 71 500 championship to Ago on a Lawton engined Steve Roberts framed TR500 which was considerably faster than the factory TR 500 Suzuki dispatched a team of engineers to deepest darkest Newtown to find out why!

[roogazza]

You're showing your age there Rcktfsh ! Clever stuff wasn't it ? I had a go on a production T500 of his, at the time very fast. (couple of mates rode for him). G.

[Billy]

Dicky Lawton (NZ greatest ever tuner) used araldite to experiment with port shapes in 2 stroke barrels, easy to add or take out before settling on a final design. I remember seeing a TS400 barrel where the transfer ports extendedout further than the original barrel would heve been. After Keith Turner finished runner up in the 71 500 championship to Ago on a Lawton engined Steve Roberts framed TR500 which was considerably faster than the factory TR 500 Suzuki dispatched a team of engineers to deepest darkest Newtown to find out why!

Yip,Very clever man Dick Lawton.I probably inadvertently helped build that bike and many of the other Lawton specials,As at the time those bikes were being developed,I was doing my apprenticeship as a panelbeater in the Hutt and our tech tutor was none other than Steve Roberts and the Tech was just up the hill behind Lawton and Boyle,Consequently much of our welding testing at block course and night school was on expansion chambers and frames for Lawton and Boyle.That Bloody Roberts was probably charging Lawtons for doing the job and getting paid for teaching us at the same time,Still he would have had fix all the cockups we made anyway LOL.There was some very interesting machinery came out of that workshop,From Keith Tinneys TM400 and Peter Lawtons T20 based beach racers too Geoff Perrys factory conquering specials

[roogazza]

Do you remember 'The Hinge' and the little 350/3 that was originally a GT380 ? The Hinge was a beast, a T500 with chambers and one of his motors. Gaz.

[wharfy]

Dicky Lawton (NZ greatest ever tuner) used araldite to experiment with port shapes in 2 stroke barrels, easy to add or take out before settling on a final design. !

Ahhh...... The pre-cursor to computer modelling :)

[Billy]

Do you remember 'The Hinge' and the little 350/3 that was originally a GT380 ? The Hinge was a beast, a T500 with chambers and one of his motors. Gaz.

Yip,Definitely remember the little desleeved and watercooled 380 3.Vividly remeber Dale Wylie battling it out with Ginger Molloy on the Aermacchi 350 and Trevor Discombe on a TZ350 at Onekawa.The little triple seized and they quickly ripped it too bits and blasted the swarf out of the cases with a firehose,Reassembled it and it was back out for the next race.Last saw that bike a Co-op Honda in Palmy in about 88,It belonged to Geoff Sell.As far as the hinge goes,That description matches just about every T500 Suzuki I ever rode.Still remember the late Grant Russell turning up to Gracefeild with a waterbus and racing it in open proddy,What a fucken legend,Even the old red/white Mach 111s never wobbled anywhere near as bad as that thing

Im thinking we might have gotten a little off the beaten path here LOL

[gixerracer]

only because you whoops { i ment the said rider } was good enough to get the most from it
well how about a rider that used to put a GSXR600 gear box into his GSXR750 a few years ago, giving it like a race box ratio set up???

That would have been a huge gain to him

[Shaun]

only because you whoops { i ment the said rider } was good enough to get the most from it


Said rider indeed mate, I never raced a raced a 750 in the SB Seriers years back

[suzuki21]

our tech tutor was none other than Steve Roberts

How come you are such a crap panel beater then Billy?

[suzuki21]

Said rider indeed mate, I never raced a raced a 750 in the SB Seriers years back

EXCEPT for the endurance race at Manfield - 2000? Im pretty sure it was in that race the gearbox crapped out, and it was even a 750 one!

[Billy]

How come you are such a crap panel beater then Billy?

You know what they say mate,You cant make a silk purse out of a sours ear

[Shaun]

EXCEPT for the endurance race at Manfield - 2000? Im pretty sure it was in that race the gearbox crapped out, and it was even a 750 one!



You are correct, forgot about that meeting. I was riding with Brian Bernard in that I remember now

[gixerracer]

Farken hell you and bernard on a SNZ bike that thing would have been so dodgy
You are correct, forgot about that meeting. I was riding with Brian Bernard in that I remember now

[Shaun]

Farken hell you and bernard on a SNZ bike that thing would have been so dodgy

Ha Ha, if It was Dodgy, I must be to blaim, as I built that bike

[gixerracer]

Ha Ha, if It was Dodgy, I must be to blaim, as I built that bike

what he said

[Shaun]

what he said



815z Go well eh Ha ha

[Drew]

815z Go well eh Ha haPoos' one didn't, thing was a pig till Jay had it tuned down.

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=Nonbeliever;1129636694]yeah, the "new" class hasnt worked for getting more entries so far.

I'd have another two classes run seperatley to sbk and ss.

a 600 and a 1000 "streetbike" class where you are limited to a pipe,pc,air filter,braided lines,pads,chain/sprockets and STREET tyres (not dot legal race rubber) with a limit of 1 front and 2 rears per meeting.This would be a far more cost effective class without the big dollar outlay on suspension,tyres etc and get more people on the track with similar spec bikes for some close racing.

I'd can sidecars and streetstock and clubmans etc and limit national meets to :

sbk, ss ,1000streetbike, 600 streetbike ,125gp

Just my opinion I know some will dissagree[/QUOTE

[Wingnut]

[QUOTE=Nonbeliever;1129636694]yeah, the "new" class hasnt worked for getting more entries so far.

I'd have another two classes run seperatley to sbk and ss.

a 600 and a 1000 "streetbike" class where you are limited to a pipe,pc,air filter,braided lines,pads,chain/sprockets and STREET tyres (not dot legal race rubber) with a limit of 1 front and 2 rears per meeting.This would be a far more cost effective class without the big dollar outlay on suspension,tyres etc and get more people on the track with similar spec bikes for some close racing.

I'd can sidecars and streetstock and clubmans etc and limit national meets to :

sbk, ss ,1000streetbike, 600 streetbike ,125gp

Just my opinion I know some will dissagree[/QUOTE


Your right for sure on one count - some will dissagree.

Can Streetstock! This would have a detrimental effect to the overall future of racing in NZ in my opinion. Its a class that is brilliant both for the sport and for spectators to see a field with (usually) many entered.

With stock suspension - I would imagine tyre life would suffer.

Could work though - what the fuck would I know anyway. Food for thought.

[Ivan]

ok were only in its first season next year will be the telling year for it

[codgyoleracer]

Maybe 600's is a more likely contender as a class for the superstocky thing ?, - but i suspect it would need to be a one rule class (not supersport / superstock combined), as is there realistically enough riders / teams to do both ?

[Rob Taylor]

Hopefully this new 600 class will allow 675 Triple & 750 twin as well.....

[lukemillar]

Hopefully this new 600 class will allow 675 Triple & 750 twin as well.....

I thought it did?? Keelim was racing at Manfeild Nationals in 600 Stock production on a 675

[Rob Taylor]

Yes the current (F2/supersport)class does.I was meaning the new 600 (no modes)class which this thread is about....

[racerhead]

Yes the current (F2/supersport)class does.I was meaning the new 600 (no modes)class which this thread is about....

Yep as Luke said I was riding my 675 in the class as the capacity/cylinder limits are the same as normal sports production rules

[Rob Taylor]

Cheers for that info...

[codgyoleracer]

Hopefully this new 600 class will allow 675 Triple & 750 twin as well.....

750 twins - days are long gone when those old 120hp heavy bangers were competitve........ , If winning races was about the best sound they would do it easy though.

[Rob Taylor]

Funny Ha Ha