Should I buy it or not...

[magicmonkey]

ok, so I've got the chance to pick up a 1989 ZXR250a for $1000, obviously there are a few problems with it though! Firstly, it needs re-vinning as it's been de-registered, secondly it's only been run once in the last 2 years and has been sat in a garage for the rest of the time.

The guy was incredibly helpful and let me go round this morning and have a really good look around the bike and the things I've found to be wrong are:


front fork seals need replacing (oil on the forks after bouncing the suspension)
the carbs will need a damned good clean and will need syncing once that's been done (there's no petrol getting to the engine)
the tank has rust in it although it looks to only be surface rust from what I can tell.
I'd want new brake pads and fluid for each wheel for safetys sake
The headlight, front right indicator and tail light don't have the 'E' marking on them so would need replacing
New battery


I've checked spark and that's ok (held the plug to the engine and turned it over) but there was a tiny amount of oil on the end of the plugs.

Using some jump leads the bike turns over fine so the engine hasn't seized or anything

It could do with a paint job!!


So, seeing as I'm a bit of a beginner and I'd be paying for a mechanic to do most of the work (at least the forks, brakes and carb syncing) do you think it's worth it??

linky:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-263642942.htm

[ukusa]

Sounds like you'd need another 2k on top. IMHO wouldn't touch it

[magicmonkey]

Sounds like you'd need another 2k on top. IMHO wouldn't touch it

yeah, after getting that all writtten down I was coming to that conclusion myself! For that price I could get a running one which is registered. Ah well, back to the drawing board!

[breakaway]

So, seeing as I'm a bit of a beginner and I'd be paying for a mechanic to do most of the work (at least the forks, brakes and carb syncing) do you think it's worth it??

No way. If you do it yourself, MAYBE a good project, but even then, no.


Sounds like you'd need another 2k on top. IMHO wouldn't touch it

^ And another $3236236236 for labor!

[sleemanj]

If it needs revinning, I don't think I'd bother, I think it's quite a job to do. 1/2 that price and peraps worth thinking about.

Don't forget you'd probably want to replace the tyres too, sitting unmoved on concrete for 2 years, won't have done them much good I think.

If it wasn't de-reg'd, and was running, different story then (still borderline though if you ask me).

[FROSTY]

MM one really important question --WHY is it deregistered?. This makes a fair difference to what my reccomendation to you would be.
Theres basicly two reasons --1) someone got lazy and it lapsed in which case I can get it on the road for about $500
2) its insurance company wrightoff. In which case its a MINIMUM of $700
Please note the emphasised word because if the engineer says something is bent then it needs to be replaced or straightened which can cost a lot of coin.

The stuff you have described as being wrong with the bike doesn't sound like a major quite frankly.
My concern would be that the engine yes turns over but does it have compression.
One issue with those lil 4 valve 250s is that they get specs of rust on some of the valves and need the head off and avalve lap to get the compression back up.
I'd suggest that at the $1000 you want to hear the bike actually running

[magicmonkey]

MM one really important question --WHY is it deregistered?. This makes a fair difference to what my reccomendation to you would be.
Theres basicly two reasons --1) someone got lazy and it lapsed in which case I can get it on the road for about $500
2) its insurance company wrightoff. In which case its a MINIMUM of $700
Please note the emphasised word because if the engineer says something is bent then it needs to be replaced or straightened which can cost a lot of coin.

It just laspsed because he stopped riding it. I get the impression that he thought a bike would be a great idea, got his learners and then gave up on the idea for one reason or another...


The stuff you have described as being wrong with the bike doesn't sound like a major quite frankly.
My concern would be that the engine yes turns over but does it have compression.
One issue with those lil 4 valve 250s is that they get specs of rust on some of the valves and need the head off and avalve lap to get the compression back up.
I'd suggest that at the $1000 you want to hear the bike actually running

The problem I'm facing is that although I'd quite like to do the work myself, I just don't have the tools or the experience. The experience isn't too much of a problem as I'd be quite happy to spend some time tinkering away in the garage until I got it right. The tools are a different matter, if I got myself all the tools needed to do the valves, sync the carbs, rebuild the suspension and replace the piston rings I might as well buy myself a brand new bike off the shop floor! Well, that's a bit of an exaduration of course but it'd set me back a few thousand. Another problem with buying those tools is that I'd use them so rarely they wouldn't make a good investment and I'd end up with a lot of nice kit collecting dust in the garage.

I would have really liked to do a quick compression test while I was there but I don't have a meter for it so couldn't do much about that, maybe that would be a useful tool to have around in the long term though so I might well think about investing...

[FROSTY]

the money spent on good tools and getting mechanical experienceis never wasted.
Theres another way of viewing this.
Spend the $1000. Pull the forks out yourself and get the seals/oil replaced by a mechanic. so investment so far $1200
Buy a battery $100 Investment $1300.
take the carbs out yourself and clean em out. With advice its really not that hard.
tools wise so far you need a couple of decent spanners and a screwdriver.
Put it all back together and use a squeeze bottle to fuel the bike.
if you then have a running bike you can decide from thereto go further or not.if not well readvertise the bike. At 1300 with forks done and a new battery its still value for money

[magicmonkey]

the money spent on good tools and getting mechanical experienceis never wasted.
Theres another way of viewing this.
Spend the $1000. Pull the forks out yourself and get the seals/oil replaced by a mechanic. so investment so far $1200
Buy a battery $100 Investment $1300.
take the carbs out yourself and clean em out. With advice its really not that hard.
tools wise so far you need a couple of decent spanners and a screwdriver.
Put it all back together and use a squeeze bottle to fuel the bike.
if you then have a running bike you can decide from thereto go further or not.if not well readvertise the bike. At 1300 with forks done and a new battery its still value for money

I agree completely on the experience side of things (and I intend to get as much as I can!) But I'm a bit uncertain about the tools. As far as I can see I'll need at least:

feeler gauge set
valve puller
valve lapper
spring compressor
piston puller
piston ring puller
Vacum gauge
carb adjusting tool


That's the specialist stuff but the general purpous tools like screwdrivers and socket sets I'd buy anyway so wouldn't add them to the cost of fixing the bike up. As far as I can tell at the moment that lot is going to set me back a lot of money and only get used once or twice in it's entire life which would be a pitiful waste of good tools and money. I've never done any of these tasks before so I don't know if they're do-able with other, more generalised, tools; or how much harder that would make the work if it were possible.

[FROSTY]

Dude you don't need that stuff and um sorry to sound like an ass but ring opuller and piston puller Ive never seen em
Like I said hey before ya panic just dothe simple stuff. Theres a chance itll all be fine. If not then pulll the head and borrow a valve spring compresser. lapping compound is about $15 a small jar

[magicmonkey]

Dude you don't need that stuff and um sorry to sound like an ass but ring opuller and piston puller Ive never seen em
Like I said hey before ya panic just dothe simple stuff. Theres a chance itll all be fine. If not then pulll the head and borrow a valve spring compresser. lapping compound is about $15 a small jar

You're not sounding like an arse at all mate, it's really useful stuff to know! At the moment I'm going from the service manuals to decide what tools I would need and I get the impression that they're written with tool retailers in mind.

So, considering that there's oil on the plugs, I'm expecting either the rings or valves to need sorting, what tools do you think I'd actually need to do those jobs?

The forks and brakes I'd get done at a garage as they're safety related things and while I'm reasonably decent under a bonnet I'm not confident enough to trust my life to it. The carbs I was always intending to clean myself as it'd cost a fortune and I'd quite like to get some working knowledge on carbs but I think I'd probably have to get them sync'ed by someone who knows what they're doing. I figure I can probably manage to de-rust and coat the tank myself and putting a fuel filter in is something a 5 year old can do so that side of things is all good.

[FROSTY]

The forks yep I'd leave to a pro. The brakes quite honestly to START with i'd spray em with brakeclean so they work. as for the oilyplugs I'd haul emout and get them bead blasted clean. Most likely the oilyness id from being turnedover with crap fuel and thyeve justoiled up.

[magicmonkey]

The forks yep I'd leave to a pro. The brakes quite honestly to START with i'd spray em with brakeclean so they work. as for the oilyplugs I'd haul emout and get them bead blasted clean. Most likely the oilyness id from being turnedover with crap fuel and thyeve justoiled up.

The brakes do work at the moment, I'd just feel a lot better knowing that they've been looked at properly and that the pads and fluid are fresh; it's not a necessity by any means but I'd like the peace of mind, especially considering how long they've sat doing nothing.

As for the plugs, they'd just get replaced as the cost to effort ratio winds up on the new shiney things side :) Well, unless there's some sort of price hike for bike plugs over car plugs that is.

I didn't realise it waqs possible to get oily plugs from crappy fuel though, that throws a whole new light on things. I was under the impression that it was only valves or rings that would do that. Like I said before, there's a serious case of beginners ignorance going on at my end!

[grusomhat]

Have a go at syncing the carbs yourself first. If they all have to have the same vacuum then it's piss easy. You can even make the tool with a bit of hose, some connectors, wood and a liquid.

[Grasshopperus]

Hey mate, I got a ZXR250A a couple of months ago and I've been using it to learn basic mechanical skills (and also how to ride :) ).

It's probably not the easiest bike to work on; you have to un-screw the radiator and drop it a bit just to get the spark plugs out and removing the fairings is a pre-requisite when doing most work as you don't want to damage them. I'm not sure if it's my bike in particular but I've found that around 25% of all the screws were stuck or stripped so I've become good at cutting new heads into screws using a screwdriver and a hammer and also using an impact driver. As I say, might just be my bike but could also be due to the factory screws being crap or just old.

I blew my fork seals out after a month of owning the bike but got them fully replaced by pros for $140, that's dropping the bike off and coming back 2 days later. YRMV.

Don't let the fact that it has 4 times more carbs than your GN throw you off, they're easy to clean (although may god help you iif the screws in the carb-to-intake-manifold are stipped :( )

Here's the best link for motorcyle repairs http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm he has a good quote in there somewhere where he says if doing-up or repairing a motorbike either be prepared to go hard-out with new parts (not worth it for that bike) or as cheap as possible (re-use everything)..

[magicmonkey]

I found this a while ago:

http://www.dirtygirlmotorracing.com/zxr/ZXR-race-prep.html

and this on the carbs:

http://www.dirtygirlmotorracing.com/zxr/ZXR-Carburetors.html

Really well written tear down on the bike as a whole and a page focusing on the carbs, good photo's too, though thtey might be useful for you...

[sefer]

the money spent on good tools and getting mechanical experienceis never wasted.
Theres another way of viewing this.
Spend the $1000. Pull the forks out yourself and get the seals/oil replaced by a mechanic. so investment so far $1200


Or just do them yourself for the cost of the seals and oil. Not hard at all. However, the main reason these bikes need new seals is because of stone chips on the fork, which will rip the new seal straight away unless you get the chrome done as well.

[Scotty595]

I dont know if it would be worth it to be honest. You dont know what else could be wrong. Although if you get it for cheaper may be good.

[magicmonkey]

Or just do them yourself for the cost of the seals and oil. Not hard at all. However, the main reason these bikes need new seals is because of stone chips on the fork, which will rip the new seal straight away unless you get the chrome done as well.

The oil was a uniform thickness around both the forks which has made me assume that the seals are perished rather than ripped although I'm less familiar with forks than I am any other part of the bike so I wouldn't be surprised if that's just completely wrong!

[magicmonkey]

I dont know if it would be worth it to be honest. You dont know what else could be wrong. Although if you get it for cheaper may be good.

well, the idea was always to spend some time in the garage as I'd like to learn about bike mechanics so taking up my time isn't really an issue. It's the additional cost that I'm more worried about as I'm far from rich! So long as I can afford to get the thing back on the road and do most of the work myself I'm kiling two bords with one stone, so to speak, it's just a matter of working out what I can afford and what it'll cost.

I'm also starting to think that it might be a good idea to just buy the bike and then part it out if it gets too expensive as I might be able to cover the cost of new tools that way.

[magicmonkey]

After much umming and ahing I decided to just buy the damned thing, I know I'll regret it if it dissapears. Fired thed money over this morning and I'll be taking delivery in a few weeks when I move into a new plave with a garage :D:D:D

[neels]

Good on ya, the best way to learn is by doing it. :niceone:

Reregistration is easy if you have the old plates and papers, just fill out a form show them a reciept from the previous owner and you're away.

It doesn't sound like there's too much wrong with the bike, if it's just been parked up you might find that with a fuel tank and carb clean it's a runner, especially if it's still turning over OK.

I had a bike that had been sitting for about 10 years. Cleaned everything out and filled it up with fresh gas, smoked a bit when first started but came right after getting hot and cold a couple of times probably rings stuck in their grooves, Checked compression after that and it was all good.

[magicmonkey]

Good on ya, the best way to learn is by doing it. :niceone:

Reregistration is easy if you have the old plates and papers, just fill out a form show them a reciept from the previous owner and you're away.

It doesn't sound like there's too much wrong with the bike, if it's just been parked up you might find that with a fuel tank and carb clean it's a runner, especially if it's still turning over OK.

I had a bike that had been sitting for about 10 years. Cleaned everything out and filled it up with fresh gas, smoked a bit when first started but came right after getting hot and cold a couple of times probably rings stuck in their grooves, Checked compression after that and it was all good.

yup, I get the feeling that a lot of learning is going to happen!

As for the fixing up, I think I'm going to have to decide how far to go with it before I start. At the moment I'm not sure if I want to just get it roadworthy and passing WOF's or if I want to do a proper rebuild and wind up with a mint bike at the end of it. for getting it roadworthy I'm pretty sure that I just need to clean the carbs and have a mechanic sort out the front forks, there's a whole heap of extra work if I want to get it mint though!