Hone Harawira says...

[Elysium]

...white people don't like looking in mirror.

" Hone Harawira says white New Zealanders reacted badly to his controversial "white mother....ers" remark because they don't like "looking at themselves in the mirror".

In a wide-ranging speech at the Parihaka International Peace Festival in Taranaki at the weekend, the maverick Maori Party MP admitted he was trying to mind his language but said the sentiment remained and the "rape of Maori lands" continued.

"Last year I made the statement that white so-and-sos have been raping our lands and ripping us off and everyone hated me. All I was doing was holding up a mirror to New Zealand."

Earlier comments accusing other countries of racism had received a totally different response, he said.

"A few years ago I said on TV that John Howard was a racist bastard and everyone – old, young, rich and poor – was congratulating me."

Mr Harawira, who is on an extended summer break from Parliament after making a public apology for his inflammatory email, then said the rape of Maori lands was not an issue confined to the past.

"The Foreshore and Seabed Act sits on our shoulders today. Here at Parihaka, January 9, 2010, we sit under the biggest land grab.

"There's a move to repeal that act, but it hasn't been repealed yet."

However, the foreshore and seabed solution was simple, the MP for Te Tai Tokerau said. "First, put all the foreshore and seabed in Maori title. That will take away the angst, anxiety and anger that has been with Maori forever. Second, make it unalienable so it's never able to be sold."

Guaranteed access for all Kiwis would be the final step and was something most Maori had no problem with, he said.

Mr Harawira also hit out at Maori iwi leadership, saying many were now more focused on corporate activity and profit than caring for their people. "Great things are happening in corporate development but what about social work? Our people are starving, our children can't read, they can't write or count.

"I tell the kids I've been to court on 35 charges and I'm now in Parliament. Any one of those kids could be prime minister." Taranaki Daily News "

Some people will never change aye.

[Pussy]

That twat Harawira doesn't like looking in to the mirror, either

[flyingcr250]

i cant believe that man gets 120,000+ a year for being a racist piece of shit. weres osama when you need him?

[PrincessBandit]

Amazing what you can get away with saying when you're the right colour.

[Leviticus]

.... And today Hone says....

"Fuck You Honkies"


Whats he going to say tomorrow:moon:

[rainman]

Until he loses the oft-stated presupposition that Maori are intrinsically special, he will remain a racist in my view. But he is right about his main point: we don't like to think too much about ourselves (or anything else, sometimes), us kiwis.

[saxet]

Until he loses the oft-stated presupposition that Maori are intrinsically special, he will remain a racist in my view. But he is right about his main point: we don't like to think too much about ourselves (or anything else, sometimes), us kiwis.

This seems to apply to all Kiwis, not just the white ones. What bugs me most about Honey Hawawira is the fact he keeps giving ,what appears to be, gang signs with his hands.

[wbks]

Until he loses the oft-stated presupposition that Maori are intrinsically special, he will remain a racist in my view. But he is right about his main point: we don't like to think too much about ourselves (or anything else, sometimes), us kiwis.Really? Thousands on this website and people on national television all the time complain about kiwis

[Dave Lobster]

What bugs me most about Honey Hawawira is the fact he keeps giving ,what appears to be, gang signs with his hands.
That's gang signs? I thought it was what people who've been to prison do so they can reconise each other!!

[rainman]

Really? Thousands on this website and people on national television all the time complain about kiwis

Having a whinge is different to having a think. My impression (as a relative outsider, only been here 15 odd years) is that the only kind of national introspection that is allowed is a) bashing the political party you oppose, and b) the traditional tall-poppy stuff. Lots of happy boosterism, too, to offset those. We are poorly served by the press, relatively unexposed to overseas opinions of us (where these, indeed, exist), and hard facts about how we shape-up internationally are seldom front-page news, let alone topics for discussion around the barbie.

Hone's point that we ignore our race history is bang on - his conslusions as to what to do about this and mine might differ, but he's right on the main point. We largely ignore the pervading racism in our culture, and don't seem to have a common view of ourselves as one nation. We also don't have a clear view of our future, or what we have to do to get there.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

The man seems a bit rertarded to me.

He only just avoided being thrown out of his political party last year and he starts the next year by stating that he was justified with what he said. Nice slap in the face fo the maori party to start the year off.

I think he does more to damage the maori interests than any white supremecist group, the general public looks upon him with bemusement and wonders what kind of system allows someone like him to be in any position of public appointed power.

His solutions to issues are over simplified and seem childish in their conceptualism. They aim to appeal to an emotional response rather than being well thought out or even implementable.

Plus that closing part in the article quoting him saying "I tell the kids I've been to court on 35 charges and I'm now in Parliament. Any one of those kids could be prime minister." well that highlights my points better than anything else.

[Murray]

Mr Harawira also hit out at Maori iwi leadership, saying many were now more focused on corporate activity and profit than caring for their people. "Great things are happening in corporate development but what about social work? Our people are starving, our children can't read, they can't write or count.



Until he loses the oft-stated presupposition that Maori are intrinsically special, he will remain a racist in my view. But he is right about his main point: we don't like to think too much about ourselves (or anything else, sometimes), us kiwis.

He is actually right about two things. I totally agree with the comment I have quoted above. Millions given to iwi so they can buy pubs in Austrlalia etc etc etc so that family members can benefit.

[Mikkel]

"I tell the kids I've been to court on 35 charges and I'm now in Parliament. Any one of those kids could be prime minister." Taranaki Daily News "

NZ the new Australia - we encourage our politicians to begin their career in crime.


Until he loses the oft-stated presupposition that Maori are intrinsically special, he will remain a racist in my view. But he is right about his main point: we don't like to think too much about ourselves (or anything else, sometimes), us kiwis.

The whole idea of bi-culturalism versus multi-culturalism is incredibly fucked up. And despite the very verbal maori proponents of such a distinction - that doesn't do any favours at all for the maoris! Until racial/cultural segregation is done away with it will remain a tender issue.

And for the rest of your comments rainman, you are completely right.

[98tls]

Hone's point that we ignore our race history is bang on - his conslusions as to what to do about this and mine might differ, but he's right on the main point. We largely ignore the pervading racism in our culture, and don't seem to have a common view of ourselves as one nation. We also don't have a clear view of our future, or what we have to do to get there.

Very hard to have a common view and one nation when one part of the equation is hell bent on ill founded ownership of large parts of it.The race card is to easy to pull out,most hard working New Zealanders loathe any group of people regardless of skin colour/race who rather than contribute simply want,and want and want.Hone and those like him could be the whitest of white it makes no difference there still sacks of shite.

[peasea]

Hone's point that we ignore our race history is bang on - .

Oh, you mean the Europeans that were here before Maori? That race history?
The race that Maori bashed and ate into extinction. That race history?

Hone and his ilk are land-grabbing bludgers, plain and simple. They were not here first.

"We know that there was at least one race of people in New
Zealand before the arrival of the Maori because of what
they left behind. The antiquity of the Bombay and Silverdale
standing stones and their ancient incised markings can be
dated as pre the Taupo eruption in 186AD, which covered
the stones in tephra ash – over 1000 years before the arrival
of Maori. The intricate, hand carved bas relief incising and
the bullauns (hand hewn ‘wells’ in the stones) are identical
to those found all over Europe. The cultural origin of these
many types of Proto-Celtic, purpose-built structures can
be traced back to even more remote sites like those
found in Egypt and Babylon"

So there!


This is worth a look.
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/NZ_connect.html#anc13

[Elysium]

Hone's point that we ignore our race history is bang on -
I agree we ignore our past, we should be more proud of our colonial past and the hardships they suffered as well as the technology, written langauge etc.... they introduced to the moari people. We should not be forced to ignore and feel ashamed of our colonial past because people like Hone say so.

[wbks]

Oh, you mean the Europeans that were here before Maori? That race history?
The race that Maori bashed and ate into extinction. That race history?

Hone and his ilk are land-grabbing bludgers, plain and simple. They were not here first.

"We know that there was at least one race of people in New
Zealand before the arrival of the Maori because of what
they left behind. The antiquity of the Bombay and Silverdale
standing stones and their ancient incised markings can be
dated as pre the Taupo eruption in 186AD, which covered
the stones in tephra ash – over 1000 years before the arrival
of Maori. The intricate, hand carved bas relief incising and
the bullauns (hand hewn ‘wells’ in the stones) are identical
to those found all over Europe. The cultural origin of these
many types of Proto-Celtic, purpose-built structures can
be traced back to even more remote sites like those
found in Egypt and Babylon"

So there!


This is worth a look.
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/NZ_connect.html#anc13New Zealand was mapped by cultures since hundreds of years before Maori even claim to have arrived here, so it's not a far stretch to say that they may have landed here once (and obviously never settled), but it's the dreaming of a pissed off white guy to say that Maori came here and stole their land. The only widely accepted reference to something like that is the Moriori's, but being polenesians as well it's not exactly the way "celtic NZ" proposes... So there!

[rainman]

This is worth a look.
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/NZ_connect.html#anc13

Ah, Mr Doutré. I was wondering when he would show up.

To put it politely, he is a Kook.

[wbks]

I agree we ignore our past, we should be more proud of our colonial past and the hardships they suffered as well as the technology, written langauge etc.... they introduced to the moari people. We should not be forced to ignore and feel ashamed of our colonial past because people like Hone say so.Yea there's that too. White people only ever seem have their ethnic past mentioned by politicians and the general public in the same conversation as anything negative that happened during/since the 19th century in NZ, which seems blindingly obviously, to me, to be a cause of "racial tension"

[peasea]

New Zealand was mapped by cultures since hundreds of years before Maori even claim to have arrived here, so it's not a far stretch to say that they may have landed here once (and obviously never settled), but it's the dreaming of a pissed off white guy to say that Maori came here and stole their land. The only widely accepted reference to something like that is the Moriori's, but being polenesians as well it's not exactly the way "celtic NZ" proposes... So there!

Steal land? Conquest? Call it what you will. The point is; it's not the Maori's land.

[peasea]

Ah, Mr Doutré. I was wondering when he would show up.

To put it politely, he is a Kook.

Why do you say that?

[wbks]

Steal land? Conquest? Call it what you will. The point is; it's not the Maori's land.

But it is Celtic land?... Or are you simply saying that they weren't the original colonisers some act like they are?

[Mikkel]

Land belongs only to those who has the power to retain it. Proprietary rights only have meaning in-so-far they are being granted by those having that power.

It may not be pretty, it may not be ideal - but that is how it works on the fundamental level.

Or does anyone here entertain the notion that Manhattan is rightfully owned by the Iroquois?

[peasea]

But it is Celtic land?... Or are you simply saying that they weren't the original colonisers some act like they are?

Post 23 beat me to it.

In an ideal world I'd say it's OUR land/country. If you have legal citizenship and would fight for the country (if called upon to do so) then you can call it your country, I suppose. I'm heartily sick of the grievance industry and the "give us our land back" mantra. It's bullshit. I actually wear a New Zealand flag on my jacket and I'm proud to be a kiwi. I wish I could go back and claim a slice of Olde England, a castle or two etc, but it's just not how reality works.

[Dave Lobster]

I wish I could go back and claim a slice of Olde England, a castle or two etc, but it's just not how reality works.

Liabour's inheritance tax would bankrupt your children if you left them a keep, let alone a castle.

[peasea]

Liabour's inheritance tax would bankrupt your children if you left them a keep, let alone a castle.

Not the way my old man worked things, canny old bugger he was.

[SS90]

Land belongs only to those who has the power to retain it. Proprietary rights only have meaning in-so-far they are being granted by those having that power.

It may not be pretty, it may not be ideal - but that is how it works on the fundamental level.

Or does anyone here entertain the notion that Manhattan is rightfully owned by the Iroquois?

Jus ask the Argentinians....... the Falkland Islands are "somewhat closer" to them than England, and they did try to take it by military occupation back in the day, and we all know the outcome of that one aye!

When it comes to modern ownership of land, we still need to follow the mantra of old "might is right"

No matter if we like it or not, it's the way it is.

[Swoop]

"The Foreshore and Seabed Act sits on our shoulders today. Here at Parihaka, January 9, 2010, we sit under the biggest land grab.

"There's a move to repeal that act, but it hasn't been repealed yet."

However, the foreshore and seabed solution was simple, the MP for Te Tai Tokerau said. "First, put all the foreshore and seabed in Maori title. That will take away the angst, anxiety and anger that has been with Maori forever. Second, make it unalienable so it's never able to be sold."
The foreshore and seabed belong to everyone, plain and simple.
IF maori wish to have ownership, then they must be responsible for the safety of all users. How many fishermen die each year while on the foreshore?

[avgas]

I feel for Hone. It must take a lot to live with the fact that us white fuckers stole his land.
I think he should just end it all. Go North on the final journey.

[Guitana]

Ha ha ha the final journey north! Nice! Probably get there to find some white mother fucking land developers Brought Cape reinga too!

[Skyryder]

Maori have been stealing land....................for generations.....................before we came here and from each other......................not too mention woman too etc.

I know nothing of Hone H's Iiwi.......................but it would be interesting to know of his Iwi's cultural history in respect of this.


Skyyrder

[Dave Lobster]

..............but it would be interesting to know of his Iwi's cultural history in respect of this.


Once you've found it, maybe you could read it to him :)

[Dean]

Oh, you mean the Europeans that were here before Maori? That race history?
The race that Maori bashed and ate into extinction. That race history?

Hone and his ilk are land-grabbing bludgers, plain and simple. They were not here first.


Right so Maori are the bad ones, yet you are for or under the crown aren't you? Read this.

The British Empire tried to take over the fucking world! Asia, India, America so many other countries they fought and bludgeoned to get land FOR WHAT PEASEA FOR WHAT? That's right ultimate greed, its always the Maori as the bad folk in your guys minds. Not once do you recognize every race fights and kills to survive that the weak die off!

Don't you believe in the whole Darwin theory about the dumb ones die and the strong smart survive? Maori killed Morie ories because they couldn't live for themselves, were way more primitive than Maori and were only a few of them in population. Maori established more in New Zealand than the Morie Ories made especially how we are a icon to the fishing industry because of our history using the pounamu rock carved into hooks. Our weapons, our political system, our Pa's design and construction, warfare tactics and adornment like Female makeup, tattoo and its designs with carving art that contributes to today's art, and clothing. Only a family of Scottish/Irish were rumoured to be in New Zealand before Maori breeding with the Morie Ories.

"Captain James Cook, when comparing these skills to those on his ship, wrote in 1773: ‘[W]e were by no means such expert fishers as them, nor were any of our methods of fishing equal to theirs"

"Captain Cook’s voyage, noted on 4 December 1769 that Bay of Islands Māori were amused by the small size of the Endeavour’s seine net: ‘[A]fter having a little laught at our seine, which was a common kings seine, [they] shewd us one of theirs which was 5 fathom deep [9 metres] and its lengh we could only guess, as it was not stretchd out, but it could not from its bulk be less than 4 or 500 fathom [720–900 metres]" link here: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/te-hi-ika-maori-fishing/5

Not to mention the Morie Ories lived not on North or South Island but on the Chatham Islands quote here:
"the Moriori people are settling, possibly around the same time, the Chatham Islands, or Rekohu, a small group of islands off the coast of New Zealand". New Zealand is the south Island and North Island not substitute islands off the coast, Aotearoa meaning the land of the long white cloud, pointing out the singular phrase of South and North island being one. Link here:http://history-nz.org/

Maori are angered that their land was taken from them, they established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own. The common wealth consists of how many countries? Why is that? = yep. England are the greedy ones they already were smart enough and strong enough and well modern enough to own their own land not take land from many others. So dont be so hypocritical.

[Dean]

If you are not satisfied with that.

Here is the link to the map of NZ showing how far away Chatham Islands are in the pacific, the island Morie Ories inhabited mis-understood as being part of New Zealand.

http://maps.google.co.nz/maps/mpl?ie=UTF8&moduleurl=http:%2F%2Fmaps.google.co.nz%2Fintl%2Fen _nz%2Fhelp%2Fmaps%2Fholidays%2Fmapplet.html&mapclient=google&z=6 Type in Chatham Islands then press search maps.

It would pay to know what the post code is for a person in Chatham Islands, they are an island in the pacific, around New Zealand but still not part of New Zealand just like fiji and pitcairn islands. Similar to how Stuart Island has its own independancy.

[peasea]

Right so Maori are the bad ones, yet you are for or under the crown aren't you? Read this.

The British Empire tried to take over the fucking world! Asia, India, America so many other countries they fought and bludgeoned to get land FOR WHAT PEASEA FOR WHAT? That's right ultimate greed, its always the Maori as the bad folk in your guys minds. Not once do you recognize every race fights and kills to survive that the weak die off!

Don't you believe in the whole Darwin theory about the dumb ones die and the strong smart survive? Maori killed Morie ories because they couldn't live for themselves, were way more primitive than Maori and were only a few of them in population. Maori established more in New Zealand than the Morie Ories made especially how we are a icon to the fishing industry because of our history using the pounamu rock carved into hooks. Our weapons, our political system, our Pa's design and construction, warfare tactics and adornment like Female makeup, tattoo and its designs with carving art that contributes to today's art, and clothing. Only a family of Scottish/Irish were rumoured to be in New Zealand before Maori breeding with the Morie Ories.

"Captain James Cook, when comparing these skills to those on his ship, wrote in 1773: ‘[W]e were by no means such expert fishers as them, nor were any of our methods of fishing equal to theirs"

"Captain Cook’s voyage, noted on 4 December 1769 that Bay of Islands Māori were amused by the small size of the Endeavour’s seine net: ‘[A]fter having a little laught at our seine, which was a common kings seine, [they] shewd us one of theirs which was 5 fathom deep [9 metres] and its lengh we could only guess, as it was not stretchd out, but it could not from its bulk be less than 4 or 500 fathom [720–900 metres]" link here: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/te-hi-ika-maori-fishing/5

Not to mention the Morie Ories lived not on North or South Island but on the Chatham Islands quote here:
"the Moriori people are settling, possibly around the same time, the Chatham Islands, or Rekohu, a small group of islands off the coast of New Zealand". New Zealand is the south Island and North Island not substitute islands off the coast, Aotearoa meaning the land of the long white cloud, pointing out the singular phrase of South and North island being one. Link here: http://www.nuip.net/surf.php?q=aHR0cDovL2hpc3Rvcnktbnoub3JnLw%3D%3D&hl=0

Maori are angered that their land was taken from them, they established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own. The common wealth consists of how many countries? Why is that? = yep. England are the greedy ones they already were smart enough and strong enough and well modern enough to own their own land not take land from many others. So dont be so hypocritical.

I wouldn't deny that the British wanted to take the whole world over, Hitler did too and he had some damned good ideas. Picking a fight with the Ruskies wasn't one of them. Yes, you're right, it's ultimate greed, part of human nature. Taking land is called conquest, get over it, the Mori Ori had to.

Following your train of though that "they (Maori) established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own" would make Europeans who conqured them quite within their rights to NOT give it back, correct? Allan Titford had legal title to his land and look what happend to him. He had/has every right to be angry too.

I think, also, that you'll find the Mori Ori people were chased to the Chatham Islands by Maori who (it would appear) had a habit of bashing and eating them. Cannibalism? Oh, how modern is that?

I have never questioned the ability of Maori to fish and it looks like sitting behind a desk with a rather chubby quota, charging those on the boats for the privilege of catching the fish, seems the clever way to go about it. No argument there.

As for the carving; no doubt about the talent involved, whether it was in wood or in greenstone. Interesting that they didn't have the same designs in their homeland though. I wonder where they got their ideas. It's quite possible they were influenced by the red-haired people they encountered, bashed and ate when they got here.

Frankly, I don't give a toss who was here first, all I'd like is the truth and part of that truth was in the books that were freely available in schools and other institutions until a grievance industry was born in the 70's. That red-haired people were here before Maori was common knowledge in the late 1800's and early 1900's, remains were photographed and Maori elders spoke of them. Odd how you can't find those books any more.

Mirror anyone?

[EJK]

That twat Harawira doesn't like looking in to the mirror, either

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Dave Lobster]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to peasea again."

[Dean]

I wouldn't deny that the British wanted to take the whole world over, Hitler did too and he had some damned good ideas. Picking a fight with the Ruskies wasn't one of them. Yes, you're right, it's ultimate greed, part of human nature. Taking land is called conquest, get over it, the Mori Ori had to.

Following your train of though that "they (Maori) established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own" would make Europeans who conqured them quite within their rights to NOT give it back, correct? Allan Titford had legal title to his land and look what happend to him. He had/has every right to be angry too.

I think, also, that you'll find the Mori Ori people were chased to the Chatham Islands by Maori who (it would appear) had a habit of bashing and eating them. Cannibalism? Oh, how modern is that?

I have never questioned the ability of Maori to fish and it looks like sitting behind a desk with a rather chubby quota, charging those on the boats for the privilege of catching the fish, seems the clever way to go about it. No argument there.

As for the carving; no doubt about the talent involved, whether it was in wood or in greenstone. Interesting that they didn't have the same designs in their homeland though. I wonder where they got their ideas. It's quite possible they were influenced by the red-haired people they encountered, bashed and ate when they got here.

Frankly, I don't give a toss who was here first, all I'd like is the truth and part of that truth was in the books that were freely available in schools and other institutions until a grievance industry was born in the 70's. That red-haired people were here before Maori was common knowledge in the late 1800's and early 1900's, remains were photographed and Maori elders spoke of them. Odd how you can't find those books any more.

Mirror anyone?

First of all that is speculation or myth to say the Mori Ories were chased out to Chatham Islands, however there is proof they resided in Chatham Islands.

Second yeah and who gave the authorisation for the Titfords to own the land? England, the most selfish, greedy nation out there - we are all under the crown remember New Zealand isnt independant. The Europeans were modern enough and prestigious enough to own and controll their OWN land that makes them selfish and greedy to go for other land doesent it. Yet when a race needs to survive, and kills off the weak ones they are considered more selfish and greedy then the British Empire?

Not modern to eat the corpse of another, culture, you know in the Haka when they poke their tounge out it means they water for your flesh and the beading eyes mean it is you who they will go for. Too much satanic forces in Maori culture that caused them to do that, it helped them win battles though.

Fourthly are you jealous that an well known English explorer was laughed at by Maori because the english had small nets and crappy fishing techniques. If you are a true fisherman you would of read about how Maori were succesfull in it.

Red Haired people is only speculation, their is a myth of scottish/family (red haired) family residing in New Zealand they would of been killed upon discovery, not studied over a period of time. It was until England came over that the Maori took neutral upon visitors.

It would be Impossible for Maori to adopt the learnings form the red haired people and have the teachings spread to all Maori across New Zealand in the timeframe of 16 or 1700's because all Maori from all tribes picked up these learnings , they all kept to the same belief of Maui and same Language not some mix between scottish and Rara Tongan.

Ownage anyone?

[Tank]

Fourthly are you jealous that an well known English explorer was laughed at by Maori

They stopped laughing when we showed them our muskets - Now that was ownage!

[Tank]

, our Pa's design and construction.

You gotta admit that the modern Maori pa is somewhat better constructed these days ay?

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[Dean]

They stopped laughing when we showed them our muskets - Now that was ownage!

Really?

You mean the journals of English solliders hiding at the bottom of hills geting charged by thousands of warriors with no fear, eyes rolled back like demons, taking multiple shots to the body but still running, spears against muskets and they still won battles against the English.
Young english recruits crying because they are scared, shaking hearing the mens feet charge down the hill, hearing the screams of the women calling the demons for strength, warriors haka heard for miles.

Yeh im sure the English really did well with the muskets, but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on also, now that I could go on a whole nother description. Like Maori's hiding in underground thrush with Muskets at the ready, Maori in tree's unseen by thousands of soliders crossing through, the patter of warroiors stalk them but they cant find them.

Log off Tank, I recall you saying Im boring to bait, just log off.

[peasea]

Generation upon generation of old Kaumatuas and Kuias have always acknowledged the existence of the kiri puwhero (light complexion, reddish skinned) and uru-kehu (light coloured, golden tinged or reddish hair) taniwha races (the pre-Maori stonebuilders). It is only the lately trained corporate kaumatuas, with a degree in business management or law, who have, all-too-conveniently, forgotten who the actual Tangata Whenua (Lords of the soil) of New Zealand truly are. The ruined stone structures and highly visible landscape excavations of the stonebuilders dot our countryside in their thousands and many of these structures relate to astronomy, just like in Britain or Continental Europe and the Mediterranean.

[Tank]

Really?

You mean the journals of English solliders hiding at the bottom of hills geting charged by thousands of warriors with no fear, eyes rolled back like demons, taking multiple shots to the body but still running, spears against muskets and they still won battles against the English.
Young english recruits crying because they are scared, shaking hearing the mens feet charge down the hill, hearing the screams of the women calling the demons for strength, warriors haka heard for miles.


Yep - and you still lost. mwahahahaha


but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on

I dont suppose you have a receipt for that do you? We seem to have lost ours and it would really help settle this whole treaty of waitangi land claim thinggie

[Elysium]

Have people like Hone ever thanked the European settlers for modern things such as shoes, written language, nails, alcohol, houses, clothes, KFC, TAB, motorcycles etc.....?

I don't think I've heard a single maori say thank you for the modern convenience the sttlers introduced.

[Dean]

Generation upon generation of old Kaumatuas and Kuias have always acknowledged the existence of the kiri puwhero (light complexion, reddish skinned) and uru-kehu (light coloured, golden tinged or reddish hair) taniwha races (the pre-Maori stonebuilders). It is only the lately trained corporate kaumatuas, with a degree in business management or law, who have, all-too-conveniently, forgotten who the actual Tangata Whenua (Lords of the soil) of New Zealand truly are. The ruined stone structures and highly visible landscape excavations of the stonebuilders dot our countryside in their thousands and many of these structures relate to astronomy, just like in Britain or Continental Europe and the Mediterranean.
There is no proof of the numbers of Settlers, and at what time they arrived in New Zealand. There is only SPECULATION.

"Very ancient written records in Europe and the old world confirm knowledge that New Zealand and Australia existed. However getting access to and acknowledgement of these records is difficult. Concocted historical opinion has been based on deliberate intent to discredit and cover up such knowledge. NZ and Australia are not the only countries bound up by such conspiracies. However this article is about a particular NZ example, with some general observations thrown in."

This is a touchy subject in the sense that it is barraged my mystery and conspircay, no one can really confirm what went down. Remember too Maori elders from Ngapuhi preached about Maui pulling up a fish that came to be New Zealand. Now are you going to beleive that? - doudt it.

[Tank]

Remember too Maori elders from Ngapuhi preached about Maui pulling up a fish that came to be New Zealand. Now are you going to beleive that? - doudt it.

And to think we take their word for anything after that.

[peasea]

Really?

You mean the journals of English solliders hiding at the bottom of hills geting charged by thousands of warriors with no fear, eyes rolled back like demons, taking multiple shots to the body but still running, spears against muskets and they still won battles against the English.
Young english recruits crying because they are scared, shaking hearing the mens feet charge down the hill, hearing the screams of the women calling the demons for strength, warriors haka heard for miles.

Yeh im sure the English really did well with the muskets, but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on also, now that I could go on a whole nother description. Like Maori's hiding in underground thrush with Muskets at the ready, Maori in tree's unseen by thousands of soliders crossing through, the patter of warroiors stalk them but they cant find them.

Log off Tank, I recall you saying Im boring to bait, just log off.

I have to say that reading your posts is hard work at times. Your spelling and diction are atrocious.

Regardless of what went on in Maori/European battles/wars the fact remains that there is much evidence to prove that Maori were not the first to settle these shores. This is not racism, this is a search for truth and when evidence of pre-Maori settlement is wilfully destroyed or covered up by Iwi then I would suggest that it is Maori who are racist, racist bullies with a very large, hidden and all-encompassing agenda. eLocal published a very insightful article a while back that was based on evidence not hearsay entitled "An Unpalatable Truth". You should read it.

[Dave Lobster]

This is a touchy subject in the sense that it is barraged my mystery and conspircay, no one can really confirm what went down.

Only touchy to people that have a vested interest in it being kept a secret.

[peasea]

And to think we take their word for anything after that.

Exactly. Legend is just that, legend. True history made up of hard evidence, hard evidence the grievance industry would rather you didn't see and they go to great lengths to either destroy it or cover it up.

[wbks]

So dont be so hypocritical.
Dean, you just contradicted yourself in the same post so many times it's hard to take anything you just said seriously.



Ownage anyone?Self inflicted embarrasment, maybe


You gotta admit that the modern Maori pa is somewhat better constructed these days ay?

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;q=Auckland+Prison,+Auckl and+0793,+New+Zealand&amp;sll=-36.757788,174.645259&amp;sspn=0.005037,0.011362&amp;ie=UTF 8&amp;cd=1&amp;geocode=FdEdz_0dSd5oCg&amp;split=0&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Au ckland+Prison&amp;t=h&amp;ll=-36.758063,174.644809&amp;spn=0.006017,0.00912&amp;z=16&amp;iwl oc=A&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=embed&amp;hl=en&amp;q=Auckland+Prison,+Auc kland+0793,+New+Zealand&amp;sll=-36.757788,174.645259&amp;sspn=0.005037,0.011362&amp;ie=UTF 8&amp;cd=1&amp;geocode=FdEdz_0dSd5oCg&amp;split=0&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Au ckland+Prison&amp;t=h&amp;ll=-36.758063,174.644809&amp;spn=0.006017,0.00912&amp;z=16&amp;iwl oc=A" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>I loled:lol:


blah blah i dont believe "rumors" of anyone in NZ before the Maori but I do believe any story told about the cowardace of white people because they are lesser than us maoris and steal everyones land but im not racist because its history.fixed

[Dean]

Have people like Hone ever thanked the European settlers for modern things such as shoes, written language, nails, alcohol, houses, clothes, KFC, TAB, motorcycles etc.....?

I don't think I've heard a single maori say thank you for the modern convenience the sttlers introduced.
Have Europeans thanked Maori for attaining most of New Zealand under the crown?
Have Europeans ever thanked us for taking historic pa's and sites and items as findings for the museam or selling it to big companies for big time money?

Have you guys once complained about how you have to pay taxes for Maori who dont do anything no job etc? - Yet when a seperate financial funding idea takes place you say its very bad, that its very bad that Maori working class citizens will have to work twice as hard to pay for Maori on the seperate benifet - since when did you guys care? Or are you looking for the old excuse to blaim Maori for all the crime and troubles in New Zealand.

[peasea]

Only touchy to people that have a vested interest in it being kept a secret.

Again; exactly. Covering up and destroying evidence is hardly the work of open-minded, honest folk is it? This from an article entitled "An Unpalatable Truth":

Some burials were in stone hewn coffins, such as a number observed in different locations around the Wanganui River region. (see photo Turehu coffins)
Those found in burial caves often had red hair or other light brown and blond hues. Samples of their braided hair, taken from the Waitakere rock shelters, used to be on display at Auckland War Memorial Museum and were the subject of written commentary by Maori anthropologist, Sir Peter Buck. Our earliest maritime explorers frequently saw the, red headed, freckle-faced Maori or "waka blondes" and large pockets of them survived well into the 20th century as people who had never mixed their blood with colonial era European settlers. These days, when ancient, pre-colonial European Caucasoid skeletons are located, they are handed over to the local iwi and no scientific investigation is permitted.
An example of this happened in1995 on a Manutahi farm in Taranaki. The remains of 12 skeletons in a formal pre-European burial ground were unearthed by contractors doing earthworks. The bones were removed and reinterred, reluctantly, at Manutahi Marae where elders said they should have been left where they were. Michael Taylor, a private archaeologist from Wanganui, was called in by the NZ Historic Places Trust to assess the discovery. He said the burial site "definitely pre-dates European settlement due to the style of burial, state of the bones and the presence of what may have been woven flax. Something like this is a significant discovery because it is an unrecorded formal burial site. I’ve been in archaeology for over 20 years and this is the first time I have seen anything like this."
Since the find, more evidence has filtered through. This tells us that the bones of each skeleton unearthed were in woven bags, but the material was not flax; The burial site was a formally organised location, totally unknown to the local iwi by their own admission. It’s evident that they had no history of burials at this location and in this unique manner; The final burial had occurred in swamp or bog land and was similar to the bog burials of Britain. No photography or forensic analysis of the well preserved skeletal remains and accompanying materials to determine their age, ethnicity or physical anthropology was permitted.

[Tank]

Have Europeans thanked Maori for attaining most of New Zealand under the crown?

For my nice piece of coastal land - I thank you.


Have you guys once complained about how you have to pay taxes for Maori who dont do anything no job etc?

Yep - many of us do.


- Yet when a seperate financial funding idea takes place you say its very bad, that its very bad that Maori working class citizens will have to work twice as hard to pay for Maori on the seperate benifet

I know your maths is shit - so let me help. 3% Maori with low paying jobs is not going to fund 97% of maori without jobs. You have to have money coming in before you can give it out.


- since when did you guys care? Or are you looking for the old excuse to blaim Maori for all the crime and troubles in New Zealand.

I care because it impacts us all. Prision stats have a large %age of the prision population as maori - so thats a fact that they are a big part of all crime in NZ.

[Tank]

I care because it impacts us all. Prision stats have a large %age of the prision population as maori - so thats a fact that they are a big part of all crime in NZ.

Just to clarify the above (which was inaccurate) - after a quick gooooogle.

Maori make up 10% of the population but 48% of the prision population - so assiging some blame to them regarding crime is far as they are statistically far more likley to be naughty and go to jail.

[peasea]

There is no proof of the numbers of Settlers, and at what time they arrived in New Zealand. There is only SPECULATION.


Just as there is no proof of numbers of Maori who arrived at any particular (suggested) time. As was posted earlier, check out Ptolemy's map of the world as depicted on this website

http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm

Or are you too myopic, bigoted and narrow-minded to even dwell on the possibility someone beat the Maori to it?

[Dean]

For my nice piece of coastal land - I thank you.



Yep - many of us do.



I know your maths is shit - so let me help. 3% Maori with low paying jobs is not going to fund 97% of maori without jobs. You have to have money coming in before you can give it out.



I care because it impacts us all. Prision stats have a large %age of the prision population as maori - so thats a fact that they are a big part of all crime in NZ.
Many of you do - Bullshit. Got another three million or so thankyou's to go.

You do know Maori that do own vast lands and beaches do share it with "europeans", my best friend stayed with a Maori family his father and their father was freinds with in highschool. They got to treat themsevles to whatever they wanted got to use the atv's, went on their horses, got to fire guns on the land, I probably shouldnt share to much but I will say their may or may not of been many many amounts of crayfish they accumulated.

I would like to see statistics showing only three percent of Maori with low paying jobs and ninty seven percent of un-employed Maori's.

Polynesians are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Europeans are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Asians are the biggest part of crime in New Zealand with illegal Immigration and drug trades sending drugs in asian prescription panadol type packets millions of them into Auckland every year. Creating billions selling them to customers.

[wbks]

Many of you do - Bullshit. Got another three million or so thankyou's to go.wut

You do know Maori that do own vast lands and beaches do share it with "europeans", my best friend stayed with a Maori family his father and their father was freinds with in highschool. They got to treat themsevles to whatever they wanted got to use the atv's, went on their horses, got to fire guns on the land, I probably shouldnt share to much but I will say their may or may not of been many many amounts of crayfish they accumulated.was ther a point to this

I would like to see statistics showing only three percent of Maori with low paying jobs and ninty seven percent of un-employed Maori's.

Polynesians are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Europeans are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Asians are the biggest part of crime in New Zealand with illegal Immigration and drug trades sending drugs in asian prescription panadol type packets millions of them into Auckland every year. Creating billions selling them to customers.I don't get why you are so determined to blame everything on everyone besides Maori. It's like you don't realise you aren't a Maori settler circa 1800, you're a kiwi dude who has mixed ethnicity. Saying "you" meaning white people is funny, because you're one, too

[Tank]

Many of you do - Bullshit. Got another three million or so thankyou's to go.

Never gonna happen sunshine.


I probably shouldnt share to much but I will say their may or may not of been many many amounts of crayfish they accumulated.

Kind of says it all really.


I would like to see statistics showing only three percent of Maori with low paying jobs and ninty seven percent of un-employed Maori's.

Simple to work out really. Go to a top professional place and count the maori - then go to WINZ and count again.


Asians are the biggest part of crime in New Zealand

Prision stats seem not to agree with you.

[peasea]

Many of you do - Bullshit. Got another three million or so thankyou's to go.

You do know Maori that do own vast lands and beaches do share it with "europeans", my best friend stayed with a Maori family his father and their father was freinds with in highschool. They got to treat themsevles to whatever they wanted got to use the atv's, went on their horses, got to fire guns on the land, I probably shouldnt share to much but I will say their may or may not of been many many amounts of crayfish they accumulated.

I would like to see statistics showing only three percent of Maori with low paying jobs and ninty seven percent of un-employed Maori's.

Polynesians are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Europeans are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Asians are the biggest part of crime in New Zealand with illegal Immigration and drug trades sending drugs in asian prescription panadol type packets millions of them into Auckland every year. Creating billions selling them to customers.

Careful what you say about Asians, you'll get a telling off from the mod's. No matter how true it is.

[Dean]

I don't get why you are so determined to blame everything on everyone besides Maori. It's like you don't realise you aren't a Maori settler circa 1800, you're a kiwi dude who has mixed ethnicity. Saying "you" meaning white people is funny, because you're one, too

Mum actually told me im quarter Maori, because I found out my Dad (who carries Maori) is only half so Im a third now. I always thought I was a halfcast, still goes to show Im mostly european but I am on the Maori side not for alterior motives just for justice on their par.

Its true though it is common in NZ to blaim everything on the Maori, whether statistics show its general, its still a stereotype. I know some really hard working Maori who dont get acknolwedged because euopeans tell Maori no matter what they arent going to succed in life its true various users have told me the same thing "well you're Maori you wont get anywhere in life".

[Tank]

I know some really hard working Maori who dont get acknolwedged because euopeans tell Maori no matter what they arent going to succed in life its true various users have told me the same thing "well you're Maori you wont get anywhere in life".

As a sucessful european - I dont know ANYONE who would not acknowledge someones sucess simply because the are Maori. Sucessful people tend to look at the person.

People are telling you that you wont get anywhere in life because you are not that bright - nothing to do with being Maori. You make yourself a victim because you keep blaming it on you being maori (remember the im being picked on for being maori thread) but it dosnt wash with anyone with a IQ over 30.

Grow a backbone and a pair of balls and stand up and take accountability for yourself. Until then you will be nothing in life other than another stat.

[Tank]

Mum actually told me im quarter Maori, because I found out my Dad (who carries Maori) is only half so Im a third now.

So your a 1/3rd now? WFT does your DNA change with what people are telling you?

So that makes you 2/3rds NON - Maori. Why keep calling yourself Maori then? Why not be proud of your European heritage?

[peasea]

Mum actually told me im quarter Maori, because I found out my Dad (who carries Maori) is only half so Im a third now. I always thought I was a halfcast, still goes to show Im mostly european but I am on the Maori side not for alterior motives just for justice on their par.

Its true though it is common in NZ to blaim everything on the Maori, whether statistics show its general, its still a stereotype. I know some really hard working Maori who dont get acknolwedged because euopeans tell Maori no matter what they arent going to succed in life its true various users have told me the same thing "well you're Maori you wont get anywhere in life".

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

In other words, pull your finger out of your arse, work hard and you can acheive anything. So many Maori (and others) DON'T pull their finger out and lament how hard done-by they are, demanding a handout from the Govt. (and therefore the taxpayers of New Zealand) which, if you ask me, should be abolished. No work, no pay. Fill in potholes or sweep the freakin' road, anything.

However, this has nothing to do with who was here first. Now, if you have Maori blood in you what tribe are you from?

[bogan]

Grow a backbone and a pair of balls and stand up and take accountability for yourself. Until then you will be nothing in life other than another stat.

fucking aye, life wont deal you another hand, so play the one you've got; don't use being maori as an excuse to fold.

[peasea]

Why not be proud of your European heritage?

A) He's probably after the 'sympathy vote'

and

B) There's no land package

[peasea]

fucking aye, life wont deal you another hand, so play the one you've got; don't use being maori as an excuse to fold.

Or as an excuse for anything, for that matter.

[Dean]

As a sucessful european - I dont know ANYONE who would not acknowledge someones sucess simply because the are Maori. Sucessful people tend to look at the person.

People are telling you that you wont get anywhere in life because you are not that bright - nothing to do with being Maori. You make yourself a victim because you keep blaming it on you being maori (remember the im being picked on for being maori thread) but it dosnt wash with anyone with a IQ over 30.

Grow a backbone and a pair of balls and stand up and take accountability for yourself. Until then you will be nothing in life other than another stat.
You havent even met me.
The stuff I spout off on the internet due to pressure isnt a opinion you should form of me.
I passed maths NCEA level 1 and 2, sure I got acheived out of merit and excellence but I still passed, I did well with Algebra. I did a fair bit of debating to.
Here yet again you are 'assuming' and wrong.

Im out.

[peasea]

You havent even met me.
The stuff I spout off on the internet due to pressure isnt a opinion you should form of me.
I passed maths NCEA level 1 and 2, sure I got acheived out of merit and excellence but I still passed, I did well with Algebra. I did a fair bit of debating to.
Here yet again you are 'assuming' and wrong.

Im out.

You're out all right, out of your mind. (And a master debater no doubt.)

I've just been studying all your typo's and spelling; nobody is that dumb, this is a wind-up. I'm off to prepare the venison; venison shot near the Lewis Pass on OUR (everyone's) land.

[Dave Lobster]

Polynesians are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Europeans are a big part of crime in New Zealand,

Stand in a court house for an afternoon. Count polynesians. Count europeans. Count asians. Make your own conclusions as to whom all the crime is commited by.



Asians are the biggest part of crime in New Zealand with illegal Immigration and drug trades sending drugs in asian prescription panadol type packets millions of them into Auckland every year. Creating billions selling them to customers.

Aren't all the drugs distributed by the gangs, who are predominantly polynesian?!

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

It's quite funny as the British (especially the English) get accused of living in the past quite a bit (reflecting upon the british empire even though it lost it quite a while ago now - and can't quite remember where it saw it last).

But jesus, I think NZ makes them look like an amatuers when it comes to living in the past.

As a country you seem to spend an awful lot of time, effort and money trying to resolve history - using modern day standards.

In past jobs I have had to examine events from the past. One rule I have always put in place is to avoid "applying modern standards to historic practice" when forming an opinion of whether the action adhered to principles. In simple terms this means not judging what was done 1, 5 or 10 years ago and comparing it to the same outcome if it had happened today. I think that NZers fall into the trap of over thinking the "what if" and hence why you all have differing opinions of "what should have happened".

If NZ (as a whole) spent the same amount of time and effort looking to improve the economy/ society that they put into trying to work out "what happened? did they lose out? what if? he's now dead so who should we pay? how much should we pay? and so on" then you would see much greater benefit to all of NZ.

With all this treaty settlement stuff you are just moving the money around within NZ - surely the time would be much better spent making NZ richer/ better - for the benefit of all?

By the way this preaching session comes from one of those land theiving englishmen who go around pointing muskets at everyone (apparantly we do that) who also wants to apologise (one thing we English definately do do) if anyone gets offended by it.

[Mikkel]

Yeh im sure the English really did well with the muskets, but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on also, now that I could go on a whole nother description. Like Maori's hiding in underground thrush with Muskets at the ready, Maori in tree's unseen by thousands of soliders crossing through, the patter of warroiors stalk them but they cant find them.

Trading muskets to ferocious stone-age tribes in the South Sea might, at a glance, seem imprudent.

However, with them not having the technology (and resources) to make new bullets and gun-powder - and being fairly far from the European market - it might actually not be such a bad idea when you think about it.

The Maoris should just be very thankful that a humanitarian revolution had taken place in Europe in the years between the colonization of America and the colonization of NZ. Otherwise, they might be living in reservations today. Just look at Australia which was colonized a mere hundred years before NZ - the aboriginals aren't doing too well these days.
Don't get me wrong, I am not at all applauding what happened in America and Australia - just saying that the maori could have been a lot worse off if Abel Tasman had been a decent salesman.

[motor_mayhem]

Dean et al,

I would very much like you to consider this, that the issue being originally raised in this thread is not actually to do with what happened in 1840 or the close preceding years, it is about how one individual ripped off a country in 2009 and then proceeded to abuse some of the people he ripped off and attempt to make claims that he personally was entitled to do it, and still believes he is. I am not going to delve into the treaty because frankly I am a software developer, not a historian and I very much doubt I could consider myself well informed after choosing 2-3 articles from a google search and reading them. Remembering that the money he took was from all tax payers, not a select group, and he was supposed to be representing the whole country on that trip, not a select few, what I would say to people who would vote for Hone is to ask if you think Hone Harawira's interests lie with the country or even the maori people, or do Hone Harawira's interests lie mostly in what could benefit Hone Harawira?


ps apologies for text wall :done:

[McJim]

How come I have a world view that sees a multitude of nationalities and within that multitude lots of individual people, some good, some bad but Hone Hariwera can only see Maori (All of them good and if they have a criminal record then even better!) and non Maori (regardless of trade or history a motherf*cking land rapist)? Is he not bright enough to see the shades of good and bad in everyone? I'm not raping land and I certainly wouldn't F*ck Hone's mum, even with someone else cock (although I suspect Hone does - he has a strange relationship with his mother doesn't he?) and yet I feel that his comments and ire is directed at me somehow.

Most Maori I have spoken to disown the idiot anyway so I suspect his time in office is numbered.

[davereid]

Firstly, on the 26 September 1907 New Zealand became a dominion in its own right.

At that time, all New Zealanders had the right to vote, and our house of representatives had "passed a motion respectfully requesting that His Majesty the King "take such steps as he may consider necessary" to change the designation of New Zealand from the "Colony of New Zealand" to the "Dominion of New Zealand".

Interestingly, Maori had the right to vote before many european, as the maori seats were created in 1867, however europeans could not vote until 1879 unless they were landowners.

Anyway, the point is, that at the time the domnion was formed, we all became New Zealanders, with equal rights and universal suffrage.

Maori had become New Zealanders, New Zealanders with maori ancestry, but New Zealanders nonetheless.

This didnt mean that we could ignore land confiscation, and other wrongs. But the crown was now represented by our own elected parliament.

Who was not dealing anymore with the natives. They were dealing with New Zealanders, who individually, or as a group had legitimate land ownership grivences, that should of, and could of been dealt with through the courts.

Our fault today, is acceping a grievance from "Maori" when in fact we are dealing with New Zealanders.

[Swoop]

As for the carving; no doubt about the talent involved, whether it was in wood or in greenstone. Interesting that they didn't have the same designs in their homeland though. I wonder where they got their ideas.
You will find a large amount of similarities with traditional Taiwanese carving.

[peasea]

You will find a large amount of similarities with traditional Taiwanese carving.

So, moving to the new age; "Made in Taiwan" could be applied to all things Maori? Great.

[peasea]

Our fault today, is acceping a grievance from "Maori" when in fact we are dealing with New Zealanders.

Or accepting grievance from anyone; it's racist.

Unite, get over it, move on and prosper. Or is that too simple?

[oldrider]

February 6 1840, two people, one nation. Honour the treaty!

January 14 2010, one nation, many people, Honour the treaty!

Are we "all" honouring the treaty?.................... Yeah right!

One nation, more divided than ever it seems, one wonders, how can this be? :rolleyes:

[Dave Lobster]

One nation, more divided than ever it seems, one wonders, how can this be? :rolleyes:

Inflation.

And we've bred an underclass of parasites that want something for nothing.

[Skyryder]

Inflation.

And we've bred an underclass of parasites that want something for nothing.

Ya never heard of money traders. Ya got the parasite bit right.


Skyryder

[Hinny]

Maori had become New Zealanders, New Zealanders with maori ancestry, but New Zealanders nonetheless.

Who was not dealing anymore with the natives. They were dealing with New Zealanders..

Our fault today, is acceping a grievance from "Maori" when in fact we are dealing with New Zealanders.


Since there are probably no Maori left in N.Z., previously defined as an Aboriginal of N.Z. or the offspring of an Aboriginal and a half caste Aboriginal of N.Z., the 'Born Again Maoris' went off to the Privy Council and got a new definition of a 'Maori'. You are Maori if you identify as being Maori.
To me that is ridiculous and a step backwards in race relations.
Simply identifying as a Maori is not sufficient to get your hands on any filthy lucre though as you have to show those with their hands on the purse strings of grievance settlements that your whofucked your papa shows lineage to N.Z.'s Adam (Original Man)
Tama Iti should be a bit pissed about that as he doesn't know where he came from. (Found as an abandoned baby in a tea box.)

[Tank]

Tama Iti should be a bit pissed about that as he doesn't know where he came from. (Found as an abandoned baby in a tea box.)

I would say that his parents were excellent judges of character.

[avgas]

Fourthly are you jealous that an well known English explorer was laughed at by Maori because the english had small nets and crappy fishing techniques. If you are a true fisherman you would of read about how Maori were succesfull in it.

Red Haired people is only speculation, their is a myth of scottish/family (red haired) family residing in New Zealand they would of been killed upon discovery, not studied over a period of time. It was until England came over that the Maori took neutral upon visitors.
Errrrr yes the english were crap at fishing.......especially on a 'discovery' vessle. But then again it was only set up to explore and 'scare' pirates. Kinda like having a toyota corrolla that isn't very good at towing a digger. Different tools.
However don't be too naive to think that Maori were "the best". The technique the maori were using was perfected by the chinese about 2,000 years earlier....... likewise the african coasts had some pretty good fishermen.

I do agree about the scottish etc being killed off - but I would think it was a bit earlier than that......say around 1000AD Nordics etc

At the end of the day we are of 1 nation, 1 culture. Right or wrong the maori's got fucked, move on. NZ is bigger than Maori, english settlements and the crown. The only thing holding it back are those who feel that it WOULD be better.........if the world was built on shoulda,coulda, woulda.......nothing would happen

[PrincessBandit]

Since this thread is still going, shall we play a little game? It's called "Hone says do this.....(fill in the gap)"

How many would be "out" before he could say "Beat up a honky - ha you're out, I didn't say 'Hone says beat up a honky"

[peasea]

Since this thread is still going, shall we play a little game? It's called "Hone says do this.....(fill in the gap)"

How many would be "out" before he could say "Beat up a honky - ha you're out, I didn't say 'Hone says beat up a honky"

Hone says; shoot Phil Goff.

[wbks]

Hone says; shoot Phil Goff.I hadn't heard about this. Is this because he doesn't bend over and forget about NZers at the slightest hint that he could be called a racist by hone and his crew?

[peasea]

I hadn't heard about this. Is this because he doesn't bend over and forget about NZers at the slightest hint that he could be called a racist by hone and his crew?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3046737/Hone-Harawira-attacks-Phil-Goff-after-conditional-apology

I think if anyone should be shot.....etc etc.

[avgas]

Hone says;
http://www.bumperactive.com/images/blogPix/kyle/98/oh_oh_oh_oh_oh_oh_oh_cant_touch_this.jpg

[avgas]

Hone says;
http://www.dailyping.com/images/bananas.jpg