Looking to your child's tertiary education fees

[PrincessBandit]

Almost 20 years ago when our oldest was born we were introduced (via the "baby coffee group") to a scholarship scheme which, if you paid into it through the following years, would cover you child's university fees completely and you would receive back the principal that you'd paid in during those years (in our case, approx. $7,500 per child). We enrolled our youngest in it too, and this was a few months after each was born. So, lots of years of paying in as you can tell - nearly 20 years!

In the intervening years the Australian and NZ part of things separated and when our girl did begin uni 2 years ago we found out that the interest which was supposed to originally cover ALL her fees didn't actually. The principal which we had been looking forward to getting back for our own use has had to be keep aside to pay the balance of her fees. (Wanted to avoid the dreaded student loan if possible). That was a tad disappointing to say the least.

We have just discovered that the principal we've paid in for all those years for our son does not come back to us until he shows proof of enrollment in tertiary study (or his "period of grace" expires - which is 2 years from the maturity of his "fund"). i.e. students have 2 years from the maturity date (which we'd actually always thought was the last year they finished school) in which to commence tertiary study if they don't want to go straight from high school.

This means for us (and we had plans we'd been thinking of using that money for) we might not actually see that money until 2013.

Overall we have come to realise, way too late, that the whole scheme was a pretty poor investment for our childrens' possible future education and that we'd have actually been far better off just putting the money into a high interest earning bank account. We always knew that if our kids didn't go onto tertiary study we'd only get our input back, not any interest as that was spread around to cover those in the "group" our children were in with, and we happily understood that. The benefit was supposed to be that we didnt' have to pay any uni fees once they were there, if they went. At the end of the day all we wanted was to give our kids a good head start financially if they chose to continue studying once leaving high school and not be lumbered with a crippling debt. Aaaargh. The things you learn in hindsight huh.

I guess it's just been a grotty day and I feel peeved off by this, enough to write about it and make sure that anyone else is looking into the ASG scholarship scheme they go into it eyes wide open.

[slofox]

Yerrr....'sfunny how many of those schemes turn out like that PB...

[soundbeltfarm]

what is wrong with student loans?
interest free.

[PrincessBandit]

what is wrong with student loans?
interest free.

Only ever hear people who have them moan about them....! I guess it's just that it all adds up to a lot of $ which, even if interest free, can be a struggle to repay particularly when the cost of living never goes decreases.

[JellyBellyKelly]

if you have some agreement in writing (eg contract) you may have a chance to get some/all of the money back....... maybe take it to a lawyer to check over?

[PrincessBandit]

if you have some agreement in writing (eg contract) you may have a chance to get some/all of the money back....... maybe take it to a lawyer to check over?

I suspect we're pretty well screwed for that. I suppose their argument would be that, if after 2 years our son does decide to go to uni after all, the "removal" of our money from the scheme now means that everyone else has been 'subsidising' our son for 2 years worth of money.
In hindsight I wish we'd just stuck with putting the dosh in the bank, then at least the interest would be ours as well even if he didn't end up going to uni.

[scumdog]

Yerrr....'sfunny how many of those schemes turn out like that PB...

If I hadn't been slack and decided to can the scheme after about five years I'd have been in the same pickle.

Most schemes never acurately predict inflation etc and the glowing figures quoted to you is a pittance ten or more years down the track.

[Brian d marge]

Some of us were in the middle of uni when student loans were introduced ., i fought long and hard , to get them at least to introduce scholarship schemes or look into alternative funding ( as they do in other countries ,,)

I remember talking to one David Carter ( the rich ,,,,,,insert expletive )

"oh but you will only have to pay 25% of the fee "... Well David , 34 000 dollars later effectively taxes me into poverty ,,,,, So sod ya, ( David , The National party , and those that did Nowt , ) thanks for the education , c ya ,,,,,,

Stephen

[R6_kid]

Only ever hear people who have them moan about them....! I guess it's just that it all adds up to a lot of $ which, even if interest free, can be a struggle to repay particularly when the cost of living never goes decreases.

My student loan is nearly up to $20k, around the middle of the year I'm going to start doing my pilots licence through an approved course which gets me student loan funding - I'm looking at an extra $80k before living costs. Though thankfully I'll be 24 by the time I get to the expensive part of the course (the flying) so I'll get student allowance for living costs for free. The only real pain about the student loan scheme is that the Government can go back to charging interest if they see fit, but more worryingly is that you can't go overseas for more than 12 months at a time otherwise you get charged interest. You don't get paid much as a pilot straight out of flying school, the situation is somewhat different in other countries (like Canada/USA) but i'm yet to work out if it's enough to pay back a $100,000 loan and still live comfortably with things like food and shelter as well.

It would seem that tertiary funding in NZ is skewed to help those OVER a certain age, of certain race(s), or who's parents earn under a certain income, or who are parents themselves.

[Katman]

Parents paying my university fees??????

I wish!

:msn-wink:

[R6_kid]

Parents paying my university fees??????

I wish!

Me too. Though they don't charge me rent while I'm studying so I can't complain.

[Howie]

Most schemes never acurately predict inflation etc and the glowing figures quoted to you is a pittance ten or more years down the track.

Tend to agree with you on that, particularly schemes dating back to the late eighties, early nineties when interest rates were a bit higher than recent years.



In hindsight I wish we'd just stuck with putting the dosh in the bank, then at least the interest would be ours as well even if he didn't end up going to uni.

It is fine to just put your money in the bank for them, or invest in shares, gold or some other investment for there future. The tricky part with that is to manage to not touch it when your strapped for cash, which happens to most of us at sometime.
Personally I looked at the scholarship funds, and at the bank option, with my children. I ended up going for a managed fund type investment, which again with recent events in the economy hasn't produce the returns forecast, but my children well get a reasonable value investment when they turn 21. What they do with it well be up to them at that time. If they choose to pay off a student loan cool. If they choose to travel that is fine by me.

The thing that stands out to me is that you have made an effort to plan for helping your children’s education costs should they choose to continue studying after high school.

Other people may choose to do that by subsidising there living/ education costs at the time they arise, which is also great if you have the financial ability to do so.

[Deano]

Some of us were in the middle of uni when student loans were introduced ., i fought long and hard , to get them at least to introduce scholarship schemes or look into alternative funding ( as they do in other countries ,,)

I remember talking to one David Carter ( the rich ,,,,,,insert expletive )

"oh but you will only have to pay 25% of the fee "... Well David , 34 000 dollars later effectively taxes me into poverty ,,,,, So sod ya, ( David , The National party , and those that did Nowt , ) thanks for the education , c ya ,,,,,,

Stephen

Happy to be corrected but do you honestly think that NZ could afford to keep tertiary education free for all forever ?

I don't begrudge paying my way through varsity - user pays isn't it ?

I am reaping the benefits of my education - paid my student loan off in 18 months (stuck to living like a student during that time )

And I was of the year paying the full fee, not just 25%.

[Fatt Max]

It's a shame you know. You try and do the right thing for the kids especially when it comes down to further education and so many times it just dont go the way it should.

We have started talking about Mini Max and his education. Obviously I want him to be a rock star or Premier League footballer (but not for Arsenal, he can fuck off if he does that) but in reality his continued education would seem the best investment. Your hindsight is very much our plan, ie high interest account and see what happens.

A lot of people in the UK got badly stung through education investment schemes which were all locked up in the dodgy financial funds that fell over as part of the economic downturn. Sometimes it's hard to decide where to park the money.

PB, I understand how agreiving this is. You did a great thing by investing for the kids, which in turn is NZ's future I suppose, and it backfired. Not your fault, out of your hands but enough to piss you right off. It seems to be the same the world over.

The student loan thing is a bit of a minefield. I've seen so many young, talented and enthusiastic young people basically trying to hold down 3 jobs and study just to pay it off. No wonder we lose our nurtured talent overseas, they just cant afford ro live and study here.

My point, well, two fold really......

(a) Not nice PB but keep yer chin up, and
(b) Anyone looking at investing in the kids, remember to be very careful how you do it, and finally
(c) I mean it about Max and Arsenal. There is no fucking way I am having a gooner centre forward in this house

If Mrs Max see's this, my nads will be ripped off, stuck on a hot rinse and hung on the line by breakfast time tomorrow.....

PS. For the observant (and educated) people reading this, yes I did say my point was two fold and I made three statements. I did'nt spend a lot of time at school. I did a lot of drinking / smoking in the park, riding around the streets on pushbikes and putting sausages in rubber johnnies to scare the girls with........Dianne Marchant, I still love you......

[Deano]

It seems to be the same the world over.

The student loan thing is a bit of a minefield. I've seen so many young, talented and enthusiastic young people basically trying to hold down 3 jobs and study just to pay it off. No wonder we lose our nurtured talent overseas, they just cant afford ro live and study here.

I did'nt spend a lot of time at school. I did a lot of drinking / smoking in the park, riding around the streets on pushbikes and putting sausages in rubber johnnies to scare the girls with........Dianne Marchant, I still love you......

Re: your first point Maxx - Is NZ education cheaper or more expensive than overseas ?

We seem to get a lot of foreign students - is it because of quality not price ?

We lose our nurtured talent overseas because of salary differential don't we, so not solely related to the cost of study ?

As for studying......I partied a lot as well. It's part of the student culture and experience.

I will be putting aside some money in the boys own bank account for tertiary study - no 'dodgy' scholarship schemes.

[Fatt Max]

Re: your first point Maxx - Is NZ education cheaper or more expensive than overseas ?

We seem to get a lot of foreign students - is it because of quality not price ?

We lose our nurtured talent overseas because of salary differential don't we, so not solely related to the cost of study ?

As for studying......I partied a lot as well. It's part of the student culture and experience.

You make some good points.

NZ education, as far as I can tell through various discussions with family in the UK is on par with the UK, financing it seems to be the problem here.

Foreign students do take advantage of good quality education however there are a lot of wealthy 'students' who are here to assist with the family business, if you know what I mean

Yes, salary differential is a consideration, but finance of fees (student loans) is so crippling that our talent cannot afford to pay it off and the overseas trip is seen as the main option, but I do see your point

...and partying while studying...rude not to I suppose.....

Did you ever stuff a sausage in a johnny and chase girls......?

[Winston001]

Almost 20 years ago when our oldest was born we were introduced (via the "baby coffee group") to a scholarship scheme ....


I guess it's just been a grotty day and I feel peeved off by this, enough to write about it and make sure that anyone else is looking into the ASG scholarship scheme they go into it eyes wide open.

Well PB it is certainly interesting to learn of your experience. We were introduced to the Australian Scholarship Scheme through our playgroup. There were two attractions -

1. It was a charity under Aussie law so no tax on the fund

2. Some people would always pull out leaving a bigger interest fund to be split with your child.

However thinking I was a clever clogs, I of course chose to invest for our children myself. Duh. I've just checked and each of my three children could pay for about 6 months university fees. Oldest is 16. One share investment could have paid for them all except the company went bust in the recession.

So don't feel too bad PB. At least you get the principal back. And congratulate yourself for doing the right thing for your kids - many don't even think of it.

[Deano]

Foreign students do take advantage of good quality education however there are a lot of wealthy 'students' who are here to assist with the family business, if you know what I mean


Yep - a lot of wealthy students while I studied. Friend of mine was asked by a foreign student to help her check her bank account - she had no idea of the value of NZ dollars. Turns out her parents had deposited her $100,000 to cover a 3 year business degree. Noice !!



Did you ever stuff a sausage in a johnny and chase girls......?

Ummm, no. I was an 'adult' student I guess. (Over 25 so fortunate enough to get the allowance as well)

[McJim]

I am putting $5 per week per child into a savngs account with a bank. Have done since the day each of them were born. My children are actually far more liquid than I am. I took a year out from study when I was 18, then they abolished free tertiary education. I never went back but have held some pretty high powered senior management positions in London and Auckland despite having no tertiary qualifications. Have had to take a few aptitude tests and IQ and logic tests for interviews and promotions along the way. Apparently I score very high in these and it surprises my peers that I don't have the degree to match the IQ. It is possible to get ahead without a tertiary education - it requires that you shine brighter than your qualified peers but it can be done. My kids will have the choice to use the money for a home deposit or a tertiary education when the time comes. And there are no conditions attached.

[Deano]

It is possible to get ahead without a tertiary education - it requires that you shine brighter than your qualified peers but it can be done. My kids will have the choice to use the money for a home deposit or a tertiary education when the time comes. And there are no conditions attached.

Same here with the kids money. Trade, tertiary study, house - anything worthwhile is a good thing.

A degree is just a matter of showing that you can jump through certain hoops. It does not say that you are a hard worker with good work ethics or attest to anything other than you passed some courses.

[sAsLEX]

My student loan is nearly up to $20k, around the middle of the year I'm going to start doing my pilots licence through an approved course which gets me student loan funding - I'm looking at an extra $80k before living costs. Though thankfully I'll be 24 by the time I get to the expensive part of the course (the flying) so I'll get student allowance for living costs for free. The only real pain about the student loan scheme is that the Government can go back to charging interest if they see fit, but more worryingly is that you can't go overseas for more than 12 months at a time otherwise you get charged interest. You don't get paid much as a pilot straight out of flying school, the situation is somewhat different in other countries (like Canada/USA) but i'm yet to work out if it's enough to pay back a $100,000 loan and still live comfortably with things like food and shelter as well.

It would seem that tertiary funding in NZ is skewed to help those OVER a certain age, of certain race(s), or who's parents earn under a certain income, or who are parents themselves.

Best bet for flying is a little training school in Ohakea.......... free to!

There are ways to get uni for free.

[PrincessBandit]

Parents paying my university fees??????

I wish!

:msn-wink:

Yeah well, I think I would have been about one of the last through the system before fees started getting hiked skyhigh. Just wanted to try and give the kids a similar head start if possible.

As for partying being a standard part of uni life, hell, I was so boring! (a) was a nerdy music student for a start, and (b) I was only 16 when I started, still living at home and not very worldly wise! Maybe a few parties would have been good for my wider education hahaha.

[Tink]

I can only say... that I feel for you... how often have we been let down. Faith is in your partner we hope...and kids def... but not your govt !!! hugs

PS I have given up my future... for the kids education... and even if they don't do uni, I know they will walk into adulthood as smart kids with hope... and hopefully a job... you can't read the future... but hope only for the best

[steel001]

Worked my way through a con-joint degree in property and business at Auckland Uni, partied hard but worked like a bastard as well. Used the low interest lump-sum loan to buy my first section , 32 today and have those loans to thank for having what I have.

Interest free?! Now there is an opportunity!

[gijoe1313]

Dear PB, yes it does suck a kumara, but at least you were trying to do something worthwhile that you thought could make a difference. You made a difference straight there by caring. And your fruit of the loins shall take note of your attempt to provide and that failure does occur even with the best of intentions.

At least you are a biker! Imagine what other poor plonkers that don't have a bike do! :pinch:

Swings and roundabouts m'dear, I'm sure something, somewhere, sometime will turn up in a way you least expect to your benefit! :yes:

[Brian d marge]

ya hve to ask the question why did studying remain free for so long? then all of a sudden it wasnt viable ?

water under the bridge now , but in other countries Scholarship schemes are in place to provide relief to a greater and lesser extent , ( my american friend , from what I understand set up a range of funding before they start )

No the other thing is that the funding model changes and it was all about bums on seats , so 4 year courses were stuffed into 2 , which had the obvious effects, and also the type of couse had an effect on the repayments ,

a dentist who had trained , no student loan , dooesnt have to consider the loan, compared to a student who does have to pay back something like 100 k? ( or what ever it is )

IF it was necessary to introduce fees , ( I suspect it wsnt , just that we were underpressure from outside " banks" as we today with ACC, just call me cynical) Then I would have like the fees to be introduced a liitle slower and with more of a support structure say from relevant industries )

Stephen

I could pay my loan , back in 18 months, but It would be approx 300 per week , which while single is doable i suppose .

[boomer]

We had someone come show us this scheme, i pointed out that it was way too rigid for any child to adhere to the periods enforced. Maybe they wanted a break, didn't understand there adult path, didn't like education... a lot of money wasted! And now i hear this and the fact the interest didn't do what it was claimed to...

And with all schemes like this, it smelt wrong... We told 'em to fuck of fortunately.

Bad luck.

[boomer]

Did you ever stuff a sausage in a johnny and chase girls......?

Wtf.. you sound stranger and fkin stranger by the minute.

[PrincessBandit]

We had someone come show us this scheme, i pointed out that it was way too rigid for any child to adhere to the periods enforced. Maybe they wanted a break, didn't understand there adult path, didn't like education... a lot of money wasted! And now i hear this and the fact the interest didn't do what it was claimed to...

And with all schemes like this, it smelt wrong... We told 'em to fuck of fortunately.

Bad luck.

Yeah, at the time we thought the 2 year allowance period in which they could decide whether or not to pursue tertiary study was reasonable. We also knew from the off that we would only ever get back the amount we put into it and that if our kids didn't choose to continue study then the interest would remain in the fund for the other kids in the pool.

Guess it's not unlike other plans whereby you sign on to pay into something for a "nest egg" arrangement at the end only to find that inflation, by the time you get to collect it, makes it almost worthless.