Sweet little starter adv bike for someone

[CRM]

Hi everyone - if anyone is looking for a lightweight, low height, ultra-reliable massively fun cheap adventure bike look no further.

I bought this XL250 Degree about 5 years ago for getting back into riding after a 20 year break. I did some commuting, trail rides and trips up north on it then passed it on to me son to learn on and get his licence. He's now looking at getting a road bike as I've sold my XR6 :( and not doing offroading adventures any more :weep:.

It's a '95 model - only done about 14000km, registered and warranted, fairly new bars and bark busters. It's got a few knocks as you would expect but totally reliable. The only thing that ever went wrong was the cut-in switch for the fan on the radiator failed so we replaced with manual switch you flick on when the going gets tough.

Not on TM yet - thought I'd offer it to you guys first. A great entry level adv bike with surprising performance. Looking at $2500 for her.

Pictures below are mostly on the mid-north adv ride in Nov 08. PM if interested.

[Amz]

Nice bike. I've got one too. Do you know where I could get an air filter for one?

[CRM]

Yeah they are a cool bike. I haven't replaced the filter on mine - when I've taken it for service they've always said it's fine. Check the Honda dealers though they should be able to source them.

[CRM]

I've got the XL250 on Trade Me now - $2750 ONO. This is a great reliable bike. Went for a ride on her yesterday to get a WOF and remembered how much I enjoy it :yes:. I've had 4 bikes since and the only one I've enjoyed as much is the XR600 - but I actually did more off-roading on the XL250.

See listing on trademe here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=273046228)

[young1]

What is the seat height?

How tall are you vs what is it like reaching the ground?

[CRM]

What is the seat height?

How tall are you vs what is it like reaching the ground?

Seat height is about 80cm at rest (no rider). I am about 180cm, with 76cm inseam, so sitting on it is an easy flat foot both sides. I went from this to a DRZ400 which was wayyyy taller:shutup:. Then to a Gasgas Pampera which was maybe a little taller but narrower so felt similar height.

[young1]

Unfort Leanne is about 5ft 2 (no idea on what that is in metrics sorry), although I might try and measure her inseam later.... lol

[CRM]

Unfort Leanne is about 5ft 2 (no idea on what that is in metrics sorry), although I might try and measure her inseam later.... lol

Yeah tricky enough measuring your own inseam let alone someone elses...

Seriously though I don't think you would get anything more suitable than one of these. It's very user friendly but can whip along at a mean pace with great confidence and keep up with the bigger bikes up to the speed limit - and off road will leave the bigger wannabe adv bikes behind when it starts to get tight.

[merv]

Yep the thing to understand here is that a 800mm seat height is low for a dirt bike so the Degree is a very good bike for a shorty and the larger bikes you were talking about on the other thread young1 would be far more of a handful than this bike. My Bro had the NX250 which had a similar engine to the Degree, nice watercooled 250 with a good turn of speed, but the NX had a slightly taller seat height than the Degree at 820mm. Honda sold the Degree in Australia and I could never understand why they didn't sell them new here.

If you believe this http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/bmw/on-off-road/2009/f/800-gs/detail.html as a comparison the seat height of the BMW GS800 is 878.8mm which in my view is too tall for a woman of 5' 2".

A Suzuki DR650 has a standard seat height of around 880mm (same as the BMW then) and using the lowered position is 840mm which is still tallish for a 5' 2" person.

[mazz1972]

Unfort Leanne is about 5ft 2 (no idea on what that is in metrics sorry), although I might try and measure her inseam later.... lol

It would be perfect for her. I'm 5ft 4 and my learner bike was a Kawasaki Super Sherpa - the seat height 830mm and my feet were pretty much flat on the ground.

The Sherpa weighs in at about 112kg so nice & light to handle, and because so low, no tipping over issues. I can't imagine the XL would be much heavier?

[CRM]

It would be perfect for her. I'm 5ft 4 and my learner bike was a Kawasaki Super Sherpa - the seat height 830mm and my feet were pretty much flat on the ground.

The Sherpa weighs in at about 112kg so nice & light to handle, and because so low, no tipping over issues. I can't imagine the XL would be much heavier?

According to the specs I found when I bought the bike (was on the internet somewhere but can't remember which sites) it's dry weight is 119kg. It's 6 speed, 4 valve, water cooled, as Merv says same motor as NX250 Mini-Dominator but tuned for more mid-range at the expense of a little top end, 1360 wheelbase, seat height actually 790, 9.3 litre fuel capacity (which seems to run forever).

[young1]

Thanks again for all the comments CRM, mazz and merv (the 650 she sat on on the Naki ride last year was lowered and also had the seat cut down) I do appreciate them!

[CRM]

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Some of the places she has been around the North...

[junkmanjoe]

where these photos taken..

[CRM]

where these photos taken..

In order: Titoki, Shipwreck Bay (Ahipara), Inland from Waipoua Forest, Awanui on the way to Cape Reinga, Ngunguru, 'The Farm' (Russell). Good times!

[dino3310]

i was at ngunguru at new years, the photo looked like the veiw i had off the veranda

[CRM]

Bump... No-one has bought yet... anyone interested?

[dino3310]

are you selling the Weestrom mate:gob:

[CRM]

Mate you're quick... :blink: Yeah I've decided I'm not man enough for it. Either going to go back to a smaller lighter single adventure bike (XT660 say) or a 'proper' road bike like a 600 or 900 Hornet.

All my favourite bikes have been Honda's, and although on paper the VStrom should be great it's just not for me - I found the same with my DRZ400 - just biased against Suzuki's:sick:. I'm doing a trip around the South Island with my daughter at the end of the month so hopefully I'll have it sold and something else sorted by then.

I'd love to get another XR but for the amount of road work I do it seems that without a cush hub (as you know) they seem to be too hard on the countershaft spline and gearbox. Plus electric start is for me - getting old and soft. But who knows? Maybe both?

Anybody interested in the Strom it's here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=275713082).

[dino3310]

i hate to say it but the KLR looks like a good contender here

[CRM]

i hate to say it but the KLR looks like a good contender here

Not different enough from the Strom in size and weight I would say but not as grunty/smooth - haven't ridden one though (a bit ugly too - sorry guys:mellow:) Preferring a Yamaha XT at this stage as less to bang up, maybe even a (choke) DR650 :shutup:

[dino3310]

:woohoo:Go the DRs:wari:

[johannvr]

Not different enough from the Strom in size and weight I would say but not as grunty/smooth - haven't ridden one though (a bit ugly too - sorry guys:mellow:) Preferring a Yamaha XT at this stage as less to bang up, maybe even a (choke) DR650 :shutup:

I just stuck my neck out & upgraded the boat. SWMBO says the DR's gotta go - too many toys that cost too much money. Best I listen (for now)

Yellow 1994, around 24 500Kms, all stock std, pannier frames with soft bags, screen. Interested? Will upload some pics if needs be ...

[dino3310]

you forgot to mention $$$

[CRM]

I just stuck my neck out & upgraded the boat. SWMBO says the DR's gotta go - too many toys that cost too much money. Best I listen (for now)

Yellow 1994, around 24 500Kms, all stock std, pannier frames with soft bags, screen. Interested? Will upload some pics if needs be ...

You mean 04? (from your profile). What sort of $? Will have to sell the Strom first of course before I start seriously looking.

[CRM]

you forgot to mention $$$

Snap :Punk:

[johannvr]

Sorry guys - was just kinda inbetween stuff that I saw the posts and replied - since then been trying to figure out how to upload pics ... seem to be getting close to getting it into me thick skull

Yes, 1994 model & I will have to just sit back & think about $ for a bit, but it'd be reasonable. I bought it July 2008 from the first owner & have hardly done 3000 kms since then - not looking to make a killing out of selling, but rather just to get out of the monthly payment to keep the better half quiet. It's also got a Scottoiler fitted, which I forgot to mention earlier

Lemme think about it a bit - will get back to you

[dino3310]

CRM travel past your way regular like too, coincidence mmmm

[Waihou Thumper]

I'd love to get another XR but they seem to be too hard on the countershaft spline and gearbox. Plus electric start is for me - getting old and soft. But who knows? Maybe both?

here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=275713082).

So, are you actually saying that you know they are hard on the countershaft and spline etc and that the one you sold me and then passed onto Dino was known to have an issue? I would be very interested to know as your mechanic must have seen this and commented on the rebuild? Just a thought...
I passed the XR to Dino and I didn't know that the shaft was actually poked!

[CRM]

So, are you actually saying that you know they are hard on the countershaft and spline etc and that the one you sold me and then passed onto Dino was known to have an issue? I would be very interested to know as your mechanic must have seen this and commented on the rebuild? Just a thought...
I passed the XR to Dino and I didn't know that the shaft was actually poked!

No I'm just going putting 2 and 2 together. I was reading on another thread (advrider I think) about another XR with a similar issue and realising that they don't have a cush hub so it makes sense that the countershaft spline and gearbox would take a lot of wear - so just making note to self that XR's - fantastic bikes that they are - are probably not ideal ridden a lot on the road without going to motard wheels with cush hubs. When I bought mine I thought the fact that the previous owner had used it for commuting would be a plus but in retrospect unless you change the hub they probably get more wear than they would used offroad.

And no - the mechanic wouldn't have seen the spline as he took the top end off without removing the engine from the frame. I certainly wouldn't have taken it around the South Island if I'd known the spline could let go at any stage.

[Waihou Thumper]

No I'm just going putting 2 and 2 together. I was reading on another thread (advrider I think) about another XR with a similar issue and realising that they don't have a cush hub so it makes sense that the countershaft spline and gearbox would take a lot of wear

So....You bought one and rode it for a few thousand Kms.....realised it wasn't for you and then the 'skilled mechanics' did some work and it was all tickity boo...
BUT, in reality the bike and the shaft was poked....(what sort of skills does the mechanic have...Huh?)...Just enquiring...:)

[CRM]

So....You bought one and rode it for a few thousand Kms.....realised it wasn't for you and then the 'skilled mechanics' did some work and it was all tickity boo...

Yep - Whangarei Yamaha
BUT, in reality the bike and the shaft was poked....(what sort of skills does the mechanic have...Huh?)...Just enquiring...:)
Other work they had done for me was great and the mechanic used to race XR600's - I can't blame them for the spline - that was just wear and tear - but if I had still had the bike and realised that there was a problem with the rebore (which I had no idea about) of course I would have taken it back to them and expected it to be put right (I'm assuming Dino's mechanic is correct and not just blame-shifting). If it really was that bad workmanship I would recommend the mechanic or Dino contact Whangarei Yamaha themselves and they may get some recourse. I think they would like to preserve their good reputation. I seem to remember sending a copy of the invoice to Dino.

[johannvr]

Sorry guys - was just kinda inbetween stuff that I saw the posts and replied - since then been trying to figure out how to upload pics ... seem to be getting close to getting it into me thick skull

Yes, 1994 model & I will have to just sit back & think about $ for a bit, but it'd be reasonable. I bought it July 2008 from the first owner & have hardly done 3000 kms since then - not looking to make a killing out of selling, but rather just to get out of the monthly payment to keep the better half quiet. It's also got a Scottoiler fitted, which I forgot to mention earlier

Lemme think about it a bit - will get back to you

I have NO idea where & why I got on to the 1994 bit - twice ... I think I may have had a very dumb day yesterday. Yep - 2004 model, NOT 1994 ...

[junkmanjoe]

. I think I may have had a very dumb day yesterday..


dont worry mate,,we all have them now and again...

JMJ

[tri boy]

(I'm assuming Dino's mechanic is correct and not just blame-shifting).


I don't "blame shift"!
Neither does the engine machinist/business owner at Waikato Engine Rebuilders.
We both have been round long enough to read engine internals without using emotive swings.
Tolerances, wear indicators and metal fatique does not require such "skills". they are not in my skill set when assessing engine damage. Some might use words more "skillfully" than me though. I just tell it as I see it.
The spline wear may or may not have been seen by pevious mechanics.
But I sure have hell noticed it very quickly.
Most issues related to countershaft spline wear is poor maintenance regarding the sproket retainer, or cheap sprokets that advertise "long life".
These sprockets are very hard on splines, and are a false economy.
Moral of story. Check components regularly, and don't be fooled by snake oil advertising. MHO

[warewolf]

Most issues related to countershaft spline wear is poor maintenance regarding the sproket retainer, or cheap sprokets that advertise "long life".
These sprockets are very hard on splines, and are a false economy.What's the story there? Not that I buy cheap stuff since as you say it is usually false economy. Just curious as to why.

[CRM]

I don't "blame shift"!
Neither does the engine machinist/business owner at Waikato Engine Rebuilders.
We both have been round long enough to read engine internals without using emotive swings.
Tolerances, wear indicators and metal fatique does not require such "skills". they are not in my skill set when assessing engine damage. Some might use words more "skillfully" than me though. I just tell it as I see it.
The spline wear may or may not have been seen by pevious mechanics.
But I sure have hell noticed it very quickly.
Most issues related to countershaft spline wear is poor maintenance regarding the sproket retainer, or cheap sprokets that advertise "long life".
These sprockets are very hard on splines, and are a false economy.
Moral of story. Check components regularly, and don't be fooled by snake oil advertising. MHO

So maybe it's worth yourself or Dino making a call to Jamie (the manager) at Whangarei Yamaha - I think they sent it out to get rebored, not sure where - but if their work was inferior I'm sure they should know and if it was outwork they need to know that. I'm happy to email you a copy of the invoice if that would help, and maybe I could go in and have a talk to them too but probably best coming first-hand from another mechanic.

The sprocket was with the bike as a spare when I bought it but another one was on it so really don't know what the quality was. I changed it back just after I got it to gear it down a bit and didn't see any noticeable wear at that stage (but I'm not a mechanic - maybe someone with more experience would have spotted it then - dunno). That was about 10 months before I sold it to Mark/Dino.

[tri boy]

What's the story there? Not that I buy cheap stuff since as you say it is usually false economy. Just curious as to why.

Like most things, not all after market sprockets are equal.
Some use very hard material that dominates the wearing procedure. (wears the spline due mismatched metal grades, also the tolerances between the shaft and sprocket spline can be excessive).
Even rubber seals can easily wear grooves into shaft surfaces on all sorts of machinery. Thats why Speedy Sleeves were invented. Mismatching components is a common cause of wear and failure across the mechanical world.

With regards to outwork and any assistance from either the borer, or the m/cycle shop, I would be willing to send an email to either for their opinion on the situation. (especially the backyard repair done to the cam chain tensioner. ie: stick weld the broken bit, and the use of non shouldered cam sprocket retainer bolts of a much lower grade), but alas, I have dealt with this type of issue before, and unless they get the oppotunity to strip n inspect themselves, you get no where. I am willing to send pics to them of the tensioner and bolts in an email, but (and I am taking libities here with Dino), doubt that he would want me to pack the sorry mess up and send it to them , so they can patch it up again.
I do not want this to turn into a shit fight with previous owners or bike shops, but consider this CRM, you paid good money for professional repairs and less than 5000km down the track, the engine is in a sorry way. If anyone should be annoyed, it's you. Your reputation as the previous owner has been tarnished.

[CRM]

Just relisted the XL250 - here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=276006282)

On an auction this time hoping to get some more action.

[dino3310]

Well, where do i start, :shit: where to i start. Well heres the deal from where im standing, i bought/swapped for a bike that had unforseen at the time a worn counter shaft, 400 odd klms and we discovered engine problems, stripped motor and found alot of engine damage, lucky the tell tale signs where picked up before she blew.
A. the bike was second hand with no guaranties, i made the decision to get it no one else, i got over my missfortune and coughed up for parts and bike will be up and running soon, at the end of the day i just wanna ride asap. My problem.

B. Has been 5000klm since rebuild so im not chasing an imaginary warrenty, never mind the time f@cking around getting the bike up there to get assessed etc.
im not going to comment in a public forum on any shop or mechanic in Question, And if your(crm) are worried about preserving their good reputation, stop naming them:doh: .

C. No doubt mark is pi#@ed of cause he sold a mate a peice of:blank: and hes not happy about it, thats why hes asking questions,
ive asked my questions and received the info i needed.
no matter what i thought about the hole debarkle im OVER IT i just wanna ride.
The counter shaft thing makes ground for a good thread so am gonna start one.
i believe the thread was "Sweet little starter adv bike for someone" before it was hijacked.
you to fellas can carry on if ya like but stop the naming.

:done:

[CRM]

Yeah good points Dino - I guess I was just getting a little defensive as I felt I was being accused of passing on a bike that I knew was defective which I certainly didn't. As I said I've had a good relationship with the guys at the shop and probably shouldn't have mentioned their names in a public forum. I'm sure you'll get a million dollars of fun out of the bike once its sorted. Nuff said by me. :done:

Now someone buy my bikes please...

[junkmanjoe]

too late now the whole world can read it..............put it all behind ya, and get out and ride....

dino mate, your steed be going before easter weekend...as im coming your way mate...

JMJ

[warewolf]

Some use very hard material that dominates the wearing procedure. (wears the spline due mismatched metal grades, also the tolerances between the shaft and sprocket spline can be excessive).
Even rubber seals can easily wear grooves into shaft surfaces on all sorts of machinery.Ta, that's kinda what I suspected.

Most axle spacers are horribly grooved by the seals. The KTM aficionados suggest replacing the spacers at every bearing/seal change, 'cos they're only a few bucks (alloy). Some even keener people sell stainless spacers (or stainless sleeved alloy) as a more durable part.