Practicing Emergency Braking

[sugilite]

I've started this in a new thread as this post was not really related to my smooth riding thread.

Most people know that on road bikes, the front brake/s are used a lot more heavily than the rear brake. This is because the weight greatly moves on to the front tyre and off the rear wheel during the braking process.

With modern bikes brakes being so good, one usually finds the single biggest limit is the amount of grip that is available, rather in any limitation in the brakes themselves. The trickiest thing if course is the grip is as variable as the road surface type/conditions you encounter riding NZ roads.

Hardware.
I adjust my brake lever lowish so I can easily flick my fingers out over the lever - being quick on the draw can literally save your life. If you have to rotate your wrists up to get your fingers on the brake lever, your wasting precious nano seconds and weakening your stance, don't forget when braking hard, your dealing with very real and all powerful G-forces.

Make sure your brake fluid is at the correct level. If you subscribe to the smooth style, you could consider running the HH soft compound race grade compound brake pads. They will still last plenty long, and the difference between race and street can be vast, not only in stopping power, but the just as important factor - feel.

When out riding, I drape one finger over the brake lever at all times, sometimes even two if I'm feeling particularly twitchy at events happening around me.

Braking Technique
When faced with emergency braking, reach for the brake lever and smoothly and progressively squeeze it (progressively squeezing the brake lever helps your forks/bike settle giving better grip), while simultaneously brace yourself against the bars with your elbows bent out (your bent arms effectively become part of the suspension process giving more grip). Get on the balls of your feet (even just the left foot if right your foot is on braking duty).
If you have the style of bike where you can clamp the tank between your knees, do it!
As your front tyre reaches it grip limit, the "texture" you feel through the bars will suddenly change from the usual organic slightly buzzy feel to deadly silky smooth as your front tyre locks and starts to skid. As soon as you feel that change, reduce pressure on the brake lever, regain traction and still brake hard, but not quite as hard as before. Try not to completely release your front brake either, as that will pop your forks up an you will have to go over the whole suspension settling part again. In this scenario the rear brake should only be used very sparingly to act a as stabilizer. (some bikes such as cruisers can usually handle a fair bit more rear brake than a sports/naked/sports tourer blah blah)

If your a newbie and your thinking "Hell, thats a lot of stuff to remember and do!" Well, I'm not going to sugar coat it for you, yes, there is a lot to learn in this area. It comes down to practice, which just means more time on the bike, so it's hardly a hardship eh. :cool:

Exercises I've used to speed up the learning process:
Practice emergency stops in very quiet areas of road from speeds ranging 50, 70 and 100 kph.
Select different surface types to practise on, i.e fine stone chip, coarse stone chip, hotmix, patchy/slick road (with MUCH caution) and practise wet road stops too.
Practice braking on each new bike you buy.
Start a run from a standing start, look over your shoulder for traffic before you start every single run.
Get up to speed pick a marker, then putting all the above into action, going into the stance and applying the brakes etc. take note of where you stopped, and if the road is long enough, repeat the process. Turn around, and do the same back to where you started. When repeating the process again, use the same braking markers and keep taking note of where you stop in order to monitor your progress into becoming a demon braker!

Once you have had a chance to practice and are feeling more comfortable with the process, I highly recomend you practice flicking a glance in your mirrors, it can be the guy behind you that cannot brake as hard as you that takes you out. I've had near escapes on both bikes and cars by modulating the braking velocity to ward off assaults from the front and rear! Within the realms of emergency braking, once maximum braking is reached, A well practiced rider "usually" has a window of opportunity to glance at the mirror.

ATTITUDE as in never say die!
Every bit as important as good hardware and well practiced braking technique, is attitude. It can be the difference between making it, and checking out off planet Earth permanently.
I know of scenarios where basically, the rider has got into a situation and they thought ARGGGG I"M CRASHING!. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy. Never, ever give up and always have a "crashing is not an option" attitude at all times.

In a life threatening scenario, having a never say die attitude, combined with being open to all possibilities, can honestly inspire God like riding abilities, if only for the 2 seconds it takes to save ones own life!

Wet Braking:
Barring slick tar and the like, most surfaces offer a lot more braking friction than many would realize. in most cases you can easily brake at least 75% as hard as in the dry, and often more.

Do watch out for surface water, it's deadly as it can hydroplane your front wheel (the wheel locks and "floats" across the wet road).
When the road is turning from dry to wet, particularly on hot mix, beware of when the water droplets start joining up - it suddenly becomes VERY SLIPPERY. If your tyre slides (even a bit) it creates a domino effect of droplets joining together effectively taking your tyres away from under you, and it can happen a blink of an eye.

The key to it all is simply practice. Once you are confident you have it nailed, your guarded confidence will up that grin factor even more :cool:

Feel free to ask any clarifying questions you may have on the above, or add in your experiences with emergency braking. :yes:

[chanceyy]

I know I need to practice more .. however what I have already learnt sure stood me in good steed just prior to xmas when a car pulled out in front of me .. instinctive reaction to stand the bike upright (was on a sweeping corner 100 k zone) and hit both brakes really hard but evenly ..

I had already assessed this guy was prob going to pull out in front of me and scrubbed a heap of speed off before I hit the brakes and ended up a foot or so from his rear bumper ..

sooooooooooo mentoring one when do we get to practice some more :whistle: ... everything but gravel as we do not like gravel .. :nono:

Great thread btw

[dipshit]

Most people know that on road bikes, the front brake/s are used a lot more heavily than the rear brake. This is because the weight greatly moves on to the front tyre and off the rear wheel during the braking process.


Are you one of those "never touch the rear brake" guys..???

[White trash]

Are you one of those "never touch the rear brake" guys..???

Alot of racers are. What's your point?

[dipshit]

Alot of racers are. What's your point?

You can stop quicker using both.

[bogan]

You can stop quicker using both.

not if the back end is up in the air you dont! and using the rear brake at such a time will cause the bike to pitch forwards actually reducing the braking capability!!

Tis probably well past time I do some emergency braking on the bros, really don't wanna drop it though :no:

[vifferman]

I got me one o them thar noo fangled beasties with extra braking available if both brakes are used.

[FROSTY]

I think worthing of noteing is that every bike and every situation is different. How I brake on a racetrack on a Gixxer 600 is totally different to how I brake on a GN250 just after a rain shower on the norwestern parkway.
getting the experience to know the difference is really important.



Yea yea trashy you'd say theres fuck all difference

[sugilite]

I had already assessed this guy was prob going to pull out in front of me and scrubbed a heap of speed off before I hit the brakes

And there is the key, good skills, with great attitude. :yes:


Are you one of those "never touch the rear brake" guys..???

I do use the rear brake, even/especially when racing. Initially to steady the bike, and depending on the corner, I start to apply it more as bike velocity slows. (hard to teach that stuff, it comes with lots of experience on racetracks).
You prob noticed I mentioned in the context of Emergency braking I use the rear brake sparingly to steady the bike and made the comment that some bikes can use a fair amount of rear brake.

I thought a fair bit about it before posting and decided not to encourage it wholesale as in an all out emergency situation, it is soooo easy to overcook and lock the rear, then you have another serious fire to fight to get the bike under control and stopped in time.


You can stop quicker using both.
Again, on sports and even sports tourers, the % of extra stopping power is negligible and for riders who have not raced or been riding a fair while would definitly run a high chance of locking it up.


I think worthing of noteing is that every bike and every situation is different. How I brake on a racetrack on a Gixxer 600 is totally different to how I brake on a GN250 just after a rain shower on the norwestern parkway.
getting the experience to know the difference is really important.


Exactly, thats why it is just about impossible to cover in written form like this as every bike is different.

As Frosty says, it is really important to practice on each bike you ride and get to know the difference. :yes:

[thealmightytaco]

not if the back end is up in the air you dont! and using the rear brake at such a time will cause the bike to pitch forwards actually reducing the braking capability!!

Pitching forward would increase weight on the front wheel with which to add even more braking to that no?

I also use alot of engine braking to scrub speed too, surprisingly effective, do it in the car as well, all limbs might as well lend a hand to savin' your ass. It's all about turning kinetic energy into heat, be it through the brake, clutch, or radiator/fins, and if your brakes should ever fail for some bizarre reason, the engine and clutch are all you've got.

[steve_t]

I don't think I get anywhere near the braking capacity of my front brake but am scared to test where the limit is. Because of this, I do find the rear brake helps a lot. I can imagine that if braking really hard / emergency braking, the weight coming off the back would allow the rear tyre to lock up relatively easily. My question is how do you practice braking to the limits of the bike? If the front locks, is there still a reasonable chance of staying upright if I let go quickly enough? I really don't want to drop my bike. Cheers for listening to my noob question :niceone:

[Okey Dokey]

I think the progressive part of the brake lever squeeze is really worth emphasizing. It is important to NOt just grab it and lock the front.

May be worth commenting that when braking you also pull the clutch in and down shift? (Thinking of noobs...)

[thealmightytaco]

Yeah, IF you let go fast enough, and possibly have luck go your way.

My only near miss thus far (touch wood) was out doing the Kaiaua loop, came around a bend at 100kmh, and there's a car idling along the wrong side of the road, pair of asian folk checking out a house. Awesome. Hit the brakes instantly, squeezed a bit hard for the fact I'm still on a slight lean exiting the corner, front locks up and I feel the front begin to slide out, as fast as I got on them I got off them, have a bit of a wriggle as the wheel rolls again and pulls the front end back up, then with the car problem still ahead I take alternative action and manage to duck under him using the shoulder.

Hairy ass nightmare.

So I guess what I can offer here for ya steve is, yes you can save a front lock up, but, I've only had it happen the once so I can't guarantee that it's a repeatable feat. Usually I just try feel that gritty, half-skidding-but-not feeling.



On a completely different note, this Day of the Triffids thing on TV is farkin' terrible.

[thealmightytaco]

And I probably also grabbed too hard too fast, as okey dokey said, progressive braking, good point okey.

[sugilite]

I don't think I get anywhere near the braking capacity of my front brake but am scared to test where the limit is. Because of this, I do find the rear brake helps a lot. I can imagine that if braking really hard / emergency braking, the weight coming off the back would allow the rear tyre to lock up relatively easily. My question is how do you practice braking to the limits of the bike? If the front locks, is there still a reasonable chance of staying upright if I let go quickly enough? I really don't want to drop my bike. Cheers for listening to my noob question :niceone:

Yes, choosing a safe quiet straight piece of road with good stone chip for your first practice area would be a good idea. When you are straight up and down, you will be able to recover and carry on as before...just make sure you let off the brakes as soon as you feel the front tyre let go. You can also feel a slight tearing sensation through the bars just before it lets go completely. The circumstances that thealmightytaco went through were because he was leaning over when he locked, that is a lot more serious and hard to recover. So he stayed open to options and had the skills to get through it. Good on ya thealmightytaco!


I think the progressive part of the brake lever squeeze is really worth emphasizing. It is important to NOt just grab it and lock the front.

May be worth commenting that when braking you also pull the clutch in and down shift? (Thinking of noobs...)

Yes both important points. I've been riding so long, that I tend to assume knowledge, so it's nice to be hauled up on important stuff llike that!

Thinking about it, for 50 kph areas, I'd tend to whip in the clutch and just use the brakes as you generally have less time/space to react. For 70 and 100 kph areas, I definitly down change and use the clutch/gear box to aid deceleration.

Cheers :yes:

[thealmightytaco]

The circumstances that thealmightytaco went through were because he was leaning over when he locked, that is a lot more serious and hard to recover. So he stayed open to options and had the skills to get through it. Good on ya thealmightytaco!

Cheers mate, not sure how much skill was involved though, was mostly survival instinct, the fact I had a car ahead probably sent the adrenalin going, gave me the time-slowing feeling, a crazy thing, can remember every moment pretty clearly, but you can't rely on that sort of thing happening. Practise is good!

[thealmightytaco]

The circumstances that thealmightytaco went through were because he was leaning over when he locked, that is a lot more serious and hard to recover. So he stayed open to options and had the skills to get through it. Good on ya thealmightytaco!

Cheers mate, not sure how much skill was involved though, was mostly survival instinct, the fact I had a car ahead probably sent the adrenalin going, gave me the time-slowing feeling, a crazy thing, can remember every moment pretty clearly, but you can't rely on that sort of thing happening. Practise is good!

[MyGSXF]

My question is how do you practice braking to the limits of the bike?

Find a quiet carpark & practice.

Start out only going 20ks in 1st or 2nd gear. First, practice with the back brake only.. using a gentle progressive push down on the brake pedal (throttle off & pull the clutch in so the bike doesn't stall). Do a few runs doing this.

Next try the front brake.. a GENTLE PROGRESSIVE squeeze.. not a grab!! (again, throttle off & pull the clutch in).. practice this a few times to get the feel of it. Then practice using both brakes.

The most important thing to do is.. KEEP YOUR EYES UP AT ALL TIMES!!! do not look down at the ground in front of you... or you will go down!

Get in touch with Andrew & Lynne from www.roadsafe.co.nz & get yourself some professional training.. it may save your life! :yes:

[FlyingKiwi]

Great thread. I got taught to progressively squeeze on the front (while using the back as well). As the bike pitches forward ease off the back to prevent it from locking. It is important to use the rear brake as it a)takes extra speed off and b) the slight less effort on the front end prevents the front shocks fully compressing sooner rather than later. When the front shocks bottom out, its all over rover.

[sugilite]

Great thread. I got taught to progressively squeeze on the front (while using the back as well). As the bike pitches forward ease off the back to prevent it from locking. It is important to use the rear brake as it a)takes extra speed off and b) the slight less effort on the front end prevents the front shocks fully compressing sooner rather than later. When the front shocks bottom out, its all over rover.

Cheers for your input, I just thought I'd comment. In emergency braking scenarios, many peoples bikes forks will be completely bottomed out as a matter of course and I assure you it is far from all over rover. It was pretty much a fact of life for my poor old ZXR750 when out on the track. Yes, bottoming out your forks will put all additional stress onto your front tyre, but it will still not take you down and using the usual anti lock method of decreasing pressure on the brake lever will still work fine :yes:

[Okey Dokey]

Great stuff. I am enjoying your refresher course, sugilite. Looking forward to the next topic, too. Good to space them out every week or so, while we try out the latest idea. Cheers

[wingnutt]

A great write up, on emergency braking, cheers, however, I’m wondering whether the clutch should be fully disengaged immediately emergency braking starts, or left engaged allowing engine braking to assist.

I always thought it was best to leave the clutch engaged, until I read this, at another forum.

Studies have convincingly shown that in order to stop in the shortest possible distance and the shortest possible time you must disengage the clutch fully at the time you begin to brake.

Here, for example, is information that demonstrates the effect that clutch usage had on 77 emergency braking stops performed by professional riders performed and documented by the Federation Motorcycliste Du Quebec in 2004:

From 100kph to 0

Downshifting stopping distance 43.17 meters 3.21 seconds

Clutch engaged stopping distance, 41.51 meters 3.21 seconds

Clutch disengaged stopping distance 39.95 meters 3.08 seconds

You see that the greatest deceleration rate, fastest time and shortest distance all were the result of fully disengaging the clutch lever at the start of an emergency stop effort.

[thealmightytaco]

You see that the greatest deceleration rate, fastest time and shortest distance all were the result of fully disengaging the clutch lever at the start of an emergency stop effort.

That doesn't seem right, I wonder if they did the assigned thing right to 0, in which case during the last part the engine would actually push you along somewhat. Be interesting to see a test of using downshifting for X% of the braking before disengagin clutch, I'd think it'd be about 95% downshift.

Another thought, downshifting could draw attention away from the braking hand, whereas if you jsut concentrated on that hand you could judge how hard to squeeze a little more accurately. Get used to it though and you should do even better with downshift.

[Richard]

Hi
So tell me you guys....Do you cover the Front brake lever with any fingers all the time?
I have always had two fingers resting on the front brake lever and all my fingers cover the clutch lever. The clutch thing is any old twostroke habit.
It is just the way I have been riding for the last 30yrs...but is it right?
I have tried riding with all my fingers wrapped around both grips but I can only do that if I am on the open road with no one around. as soon as I get into the slight amount of traffic I go back to covering both levers.
Suppose it might give me a nano second head start on the braking but is there anything inherently wrong with it?
Thanks
Richard

[MSTRS]

Not inherently wrong. Only thing to be aware of is on the brake hand...will the fingers still on the grip interfere with the lever as it is pulled in? Yes, the lever shouldn't come that far in, but it is still a real possibility. One that denies full use of the front brake.

[wingnutt]

That doesn't seem right, I wonder if they did the assigned thing right to 0, in which case during the last part the engine would actually push you along somewhat. Be interesting to see a test of using downshifting for X% of the braking before disengagin clutch, I'd think it'd be about 95% downshift.

Another thought, downshifting could draw attention away from the braking hand, whereas if you jsut concentrated on that hand you could judge how hard to squeeze a little more accurately. Get used to it though and you should do even better with downshift.


yeh I've tried all of the above, and to be honest, there doesn't appear to be a lot of difference, althougjh pulliing the clutch in and holding it at 100 kph, has the bike freewheeeling
rapidly, but still the brakes did pull us up no worries., and I was less busy too I found.

[dipshit]

Be interesting to see a test of using downshifting for X% of the braking before disengagin clutch.

Have a read through this...
http://www.fmq.qc.ca/pdf/amorce-freinage_eng.pdf

[wingnutt]

Have a read through this...
http://www.fmq.qc.ca/pdf/amorce-freinage_eng.pdf

thanks very much that explains it all. cheers.

[FROSTY]

In my opinion again it depends on the bike/situation. But as a rule I'm downchanging through the box as Im slowing down.
To me its a case of --Ok what happens next??
My available options increase by having the gear you are in more or less matching your road speed.
Its all cool stopping in X meters but if the next thing is a bike stalled in the middle of a busy road then arguably your in just as much danger

[dpex]

I can never figure how to pick out bits to quote, so in reply to a very good commentary.

First. I always ride with all four fingers over clutch and brake handles unless the way ahead is clear of traffic.

I use the web between my thumb and forefinger to operate the accelerator. A lot of folk are against this. I don't care. I figure it gives me a 3/10ths second advantage...and I can hill start without using the foot brake. :--))

Second, as regards mirrors. I make it a habit to know the general size and colour of any three cars behind me while on a single-lane road. I also make it a habit to know how close the first is to my arse and how close the next is to each successive arse.

And so, if Joe, three cars back, is up the arse of Anne, two cars back, and she's not giving Herbert much space, and Herbert is right on the edge of being inside my comfort-zone, then the next move is to increase the distance between me and the guy ahead.

On a multi-carriage road I keep these scans going on all lanes. I insist on knowing at least the colours of the three vehicles in each lane, behind me.

I'm checking every twenty seconds. MOL. If the picture changes, and suddenly a red car is where a white car was, I want to know where the white car went and now is. If I can't find it, I check ahead to make sure there's heaps of distance between me and misery, then turn my head to find the white car.

While I'm in my lane, with good distance between me and the putz ahead, I'm safe 'while' I'm looking ahead. The two second blink into a mirror can close that gap at awesome speed if the putz ahead decides to brake hard...for whatever reason. So I look up and ahead in front of the putz. If He/she has a good clear gap between him/her and his leader, and the gap between his leader and the guy in front is good, then the chances of an emergency braking are slim. So I get the two seconds to check who is behind. Who has moved, and where are they?

I NEVER ever sit alongside another vehicle on a multi-lane. I presume that every driver is pissed/stoned, and a moron, who will simply shift left or right with scant regard for what might be in the way.

And so, on a multi-lane, unless I'm buzzing passed, I sit in a <. Take the top of the V as the car in front, and the bottom as the car behind. The base of the V is me.

In this way the dude behind can see me, the dude in front probably cannot...or doesn't. But I'm safe because the dude behind can't get me and I won't allow the dude ahead to get me.

I wait till I feel all is well then squirt past the dude ahead till I get get into the next V, left and right. So, you see, on a multi lane, unless passing, I'm always in the centre of an X. The other vehicles are at the tips of the X. I'm in the middle. And if some dude, ahead or behind changes the pattern of the X, I move on till I get the next X.

Also, when following another vehicle, regardless of the road, I always follow in a place left or right which a) allows me to see at least four vehicles ahead, and provides an escape gap if it all goes to hell in a hand-basket, and b) allows me a gap through which I can go if it all turns pear-shaped.

I never, ever follow behind a vehicle which is large enough to block my view of at least four cars ahead.

I hope that helps to save a life or five.

[FROSTY]

I've been thinking about this a bit --yea yea frosty get a life.
ANYHOO- I think the thread title is all wrong. it should be PRACTICE BRAKING-ANYTIME ANYWHERE.
If i seem a tadd obtuse its that if you are able to brake effectively in different conditions and situations then you are preventing it becoming an emergency.
Even the situation suilite is talking about when its all crushed down and the only front shock left is actually the tyre.--It still aint an emergency. YOU are still fully in control of the situation.

[Okey Dokey]

I've been thinking about this a bit --yea yea frosty get a life.
ANYHOO- I think the thread title is all wrong. it should be PRACTICE BRAKING-ANYTIME ANYWHERE.
If i seem a tadd obtuse its that if you are able to brake effectively in different conditions and situations then you are preventing it becoming an emergency.
Even the situation suilite is talking about when its all crushed down and the only front shock left is actually the tyre.--It still aint an emergency. YOU are still fully in control of the situation.

"Practice makes pefect" they used to say. Or "Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance" (6 Ps) nowadays.

[Skyryder]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/braking-tips.htm


Skyryder

[R-Soul]

Pitching forward would increase weight on the front wheel with which to add even more braking to that no?

I also use alot of engine braking to scrub speed too, surprisingly effective, do it in the car as well, all limbs might as well lend a hand to savin' your ass. It's all about turning kinetic energy into heat, be it through the brake, clutch, or radiator/fins, and if your brakes should ever fail for some bizarre reason, the engine and clutch are all you've got.

No - stopping rotation of the back wheel if its in the air would cause a rotation of the bike in general about the front wheel- not a pitching onto the front wheel.

Also, while you are correct in saying that what braking does is convert kinetic energy to heat through friction - it is essentially converting it to heat through friction OF THE TYRES ON THE ROAD. Not just general conversion to heat. Ultimately what stops you is the tyres grip on the road, all the kinetic energy must be lost going through this bottleneck. If there is too much friction going on, the tyres lock up and rolling (effectively static) friction becomes dynamic friction (which is a smaller coefficent of friction and prvides a lot less friction force).

If the back wheels are on the limit of their friction capacity (either because you are braking hard on thr back brake, or because its just about to lift off), then adding engine braking to slow it even further will result in it locking up and reucing its friction cpacity.

Having said that, engine braking has the tendency to regulate itself back to rolling friction (as oposed to you regulating the back brake). So probably jamming the gears down while applying stabilising back brake would be the best - sugilite can you confirm?- a lot to think about while regulating the most important (by some way) front brake. Which is why practice is critical I guess.

Prolly best to just focus on doing the important stuff the best you can.

[R-Soul]

In my opinion again it depends on the bike/situation. But as a rule I'm downchanging through the box as Im slowing down.
To me its a case of --Ok what happens next??
My available options increase by having the gear you are in more or less matching your road speed.
Its all cool stopping in X meters but if the next thing is a bike stalled in the middle of a busy road then arguably your in just as much danger

That is true- you might initially have the plan of stopping before the car, but then change your mind to go for a gap or something and might need some power...

I suppose it all depeneds on the situation.

[R-Soul]

This bit explained four stage braking quite well:

"To understand four stage braking, think of a rider coming up to a set of lights. Stage One is the force with which he applies the front brake when he sees the lights turn orange some way ahead, in other words, lightly.

At Stage One, the rider is applying the front brake to the point where the brake is just on and slowing the bike down very, very gently to roll to a stop.

Stage Two is the force the rider would use if he was a bit closer to the lights when they turned orange, and he had to make a normal, smooth stop at the lights. So, Stage Two is the firm pull used to bring the bike to a firm, but quiet stop. The rider applies his front brake to Stage One (friction point) before going on to apply to a steady force at Stage Two.

Stage Three. Our rider has dithered about whether to stop for the orange light before deciding he'd better. By this time, he has to stop quite hard to stop. So he applies the front brake to friction point (Stage One), then onto a firm pull (Stage Two) before applying pressure with a strong pull at Stage Three.

Stage Four. The rider very unwisely decides to run the orange only to find, just before he reaches the lights, that they turn red. In this serious situation the rider needs all the braking he's got. So he applies the front brake to friction point, moves onto the firm pull of Stage Two, then to the strong pull of Stage Three, before giving it all he's got at Stage Four."

[DangerMice]

Before my tow rope incident (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/115534-A-couple-of-seconds-from-disaster) I didn't really have any idea just how hard you could brake without locking it up. I *thought* I did, but I realise now I was wrong.

I've been practicing a fair bit since then, and yeah, have locked the front, and the rear, a few times finding that limit, but at least I have a much better idea where it is now.

Oh and don't laugh just because I'm on a scoot and only doing 60kph! Buses hate me just as much as you guys lol.