Targeting group rides

[Maha]

That great one liner 'Take it easy out there people' has again popped up over recent weeks.
It makes an appearance every now and then...

I feel that targeting 'Group Rides' in general is a bit harsh.
Most would agree that a good percentage of bins occur because of an over inflated Ego!
The other two probable options are....(if I can call them that)
1....getting caught out by the conditions
2....just a general fuck up.

Why has there never been a serious bin on say, the Westpac Charity Ride?
Because there are no Egos on that ride.
Its not all slow speed stuff either, anyone who has been on that ride can justify that.

I have organised a large number of group rides over the years, not one bin to speak of.
When I see some of the people who turn up I think ''yeah this is a varied group''.
But the respect shown for everyone by everyone is very evident, be they fast or slow riders.

I know there is difference between a Group Ride and an organised Charity ride....
And that difference is....
On a group ride orgainsed through this forum, chances are that most will know quite a few of the attendees, Egos kick in before the ride begins, I have seen it happen. Whereas, on a Charity Ride, you may know only 3-4 others, no need for chest beating really when the 1100 others dont give a fuck who you are.

Things can go horribly wrong even when you are by yourself, so what constitutes a 'Group'?
More than two?
There are alot of group rides that end on a happy note, I have been on enough to know this is a fact. One of the biggest was around 70 bikes, not a problem the whole day.

Leave your Ego in ya pants and you should have a real cool day on your bike.

[Spearfish]

Would it be a fair comment to say most group rides end ok, its just the the ones that dont that get talked about?
Not every meet-up is mentioned here but probably the off's do.

[Maha]

Would it be a fair comment to say most group rides end ok, its just the the ones that dont that get talked about?
Not every meet-up is mentioned here but probably the off's do.

Yes they do, but when a Group ride has a 'moment' then Group Rides are to blame in the eyes of some.
Albeit not all bins are on Group rides. Some recently have been a solo effort.

There is no way in hell that what I said in post one will make a blind bit of difference, its just my view.
But I think I have pretty well nailed.
I remember someone adding a postto a ride thread that said ''I aint coming if its not a race''
My reply was '' Well theres one less we have to worry about''.

[Spearfish]

Yes they do, but when a Group ride has a 'moment' then Group Rides are to blame in the eyes of some.
Albeit not all bins are on Group rides. Some recently have been a solo effort.

There is no way in hell that what I said in post one will make a blind bit of difference, its just my view.
But I think I have pretty well nailed.
I remember someone adding a postto a ride thread that said ''I aint coming if its not a race''
My reply was '' Well theres one less we have to worry about''.

I understand what your saying.
As you well know riding means so many different things, to different people at different times of their lives.

[Ixion]

I've only once seen a crash on a group ride that i've been on. And that was a very low speed off on a gravel road (on a specifically gravel road ride) . Dude jumped up, picked up the chookchaser, looked sheepish , jumped on and away.

[R6_kid]

It's a bit harder for your ego to be in control when you are riding by yourself (in the absence of other motorcycles). Either way... "getting caught out by the conditions" or "just a general fuck up" are hardly justification for crashing. You should be on your A game all the time or you shouldn't be on a bike, and if you are on your A game and you deem that one of those excuses is the reason for your crash then you should be considering getting help or simply getting off your bike and selling it.

The bottom line is that there is a perception that group rides are more dangerous than solo riding, and more and more often this perception is being proved correct. It's even more apparent when people are unaware of others riding ability and more importantly their affect on another persons riding in certain situations. This is the exact reason why a good number of people who use to frequent KB rides now only ride in small groups of close friends who are all on an even keel and have nothing to prove to one another.

Without some decent guidance it usually the case (unless luck intervenes) that group riding increases your chances of coming off. This may not apply to ALL riders, but it certainly applies to those new to biking who are out there actively trying to find new riding buddies - and therefore sometimes trying to prove themselves worthy of riding with.

Leaving your ego at home is a smart thing to do.

[shrub]

Statistically you're more likely to have an off on a group ride, but there are group rides and group rides. Personally I prefer either riding solo or with a few people I know well and have ridden with before and really can't see the point in big rides, but that's me. I also listen to classical music and drink Laphroiag - some people can't figure out what I see in either, so it all comes down to individual preferences.

I did however go on a Wednesday night ride with my son a few weeks ago, and we both dropped out and went our own way because some of the riding was undisciplined to the point of being dangerous - in about 10 kms I saw needless overtaking, changing position in the lane (hard to ride staggered when the guy in front keeps switching sides of the lane) tailgating etc. I was told that most of the people are pretty good, and I must have found a bad bunch, but it was enough to make that my last WNR - when I ride I like to focus on riding, not dodging some twat in front of/behind/beside me.

Having organised a lot of (smaller) group rides, it's my experience that a good briefing beforehand and some staunch rules are the key to making them work.

[shrub]

This is the exact reason why a good number of people who use to frequent KB rides now only ride in small groups of close friends who are all on an even keel and have nothing to prove to one another.

Without some decent guidance it usually the case (unless luck intervenes) that group riding increases your chances of coming off. This may not apply to ALL riders, but it certainly applies to those new to biking who are out there actively trying to find new riding buddies - and therefore sometimes trying to prove themselves worthy of riding with.

Leaving your ego at home is a smart thing to do.

Precisely!

And leaving your ego at home is what you should do on any ride, even a quick squirt down to the dairy. Hard to do though.

[Ixion]

..

The bottom line is that there is a perception that group rides are more dangerous than solo riding, and more and more often this perception is being proved correct. ...

I am unconvinced.

Obviously , if 50 people go out on a ride there is 10 times the likelihood of something happening , than if 5 people go out. That applies to crashes , breakdowns, chundering in helmet, whatever.

But the likelihood for any specific rider is, I think, no different to riding alone. In fact, arguably less, since you have the benefit (usually) of following someone , (and when he hits the gravel etc, you will maybe have a little warning) .

[peasea]

Statistically you're more likely to have an off on a group ride, but there are group rides and group rides. Personally I prefer either riding solo or with a few people I know well and have ridden with before and really can't see the point in big rides, but that's me. I also listen to classical music and drink Laphroiag - some people can't figure out what I see in either, so it all comes down to individual preferences.

I did however go on a Wednesday night ride with my son a few weeks ago, and we both dropped out and went our own way because some of the riding was undisciplined to the point of being dangerous - in about 10 kms I saw needless overtaking, changing position in the lane (hard to ride staggered when the guy in front keeps switching sides of the lane) tailgating etc. I was told that most of the people are pretty good, and I must have found a bad bunch, but it was enough to make that my last WNR - when I ride I like to focus on riding, not dodging some twat in front of/behind/beside me.

Having organised a lot of (smaller) group rides, it's my experience that a good briefing beforehand and some staunch rules are the key to making them work.

I have been on heaps (and heaps) of group rides and I must say; you do get your twats. However, I still go on group rides, did so on Monday (twaz a long w/e here) with five other machines. Five are experienced riders and one is a newbie, who did very well. Maybe it comes with riding time and overall experience but you don't need to tell these people what to do/not to do on a ride, they do it instinctively. Everyone stays in their chosen position, makes themselves visible in the next person's mirror(s) and nobody pulled a slingshot on the newbie.

If you have given up your WNR because of some dweeb's actions, tell them what they're doing to annoy you. Why give up good rides because someone isn't playing the game? It should be them who is banished, not you.

[shrub]

Statistically (at least based on European and Australian research) you're about 20% more likely to have an off on a group ride, but given that group rides include some pretty hairy bunches doing some dumb shit, if the ride is well managed the odds are probably about the same. Most offs in a group ride are collisions between bikes too.

[peasea]

I also listen to classical music and drink Laphroiag - some people can't figure out what I see in either

We all make mistakes. Quaff the whiskey and crank up some Van Halen, you'll feel so much better.

[shrub]

If you have given up your WNR because of some dweeb's actions, tell them what they're doing to annoy you. Why give up good rides because someone isn't playing the game? It should be them who is banished, not you.

It was actually several people and I was a noob, so I figured that it was best to leave them to it rather than piss in the pond.

[peasea]

Statistically (at least based on European and Australian research) you're about 20% more likely to have an off on a group ride, but given that group rides include some pretty hairy bunches doing some dumb shit, if the ride is well managed the odds are probably about the same. Most offs in a group ride are collisions between bikes too.

Maybe the stats say that but the only offs I have witnessed (either on the spot or the aftermath) were solo riders misjudging shit (like their own abilities for example) and one poor newbie on a 250 had some dork pull out in front of him. I wouldn't deny that it happens but I've been on numerous rides with machine counts well over 350 and I've neither seen, nor heard of, bike versus bike incidents.

[peasea]

It was actually several people and I was a noob, so I figured that it was best to leave them to it rather than piss in the pond.

It certainly sounds like you hit (sic) a bad bunch. If you strike such a group again just go tailend Charlie and just arrive last. Who cares? At least you'll arrive.

[shrub]

Maybe the stats say that but the only offs I have witnessed (either on the spot or the aftermath) were solo riders misjudging shit (like their own abilities for example) and one poor newbie on a 250 had some dork pull out in front of him. I wouldn't deny that it happens but I've been on numerous rides with machine counts well over 350 and I've neither seen, nor heard of, bike versus bike incidents.

And I'm the exact opposite, all the accidents I've seen (one) or have happened to mates have been on group rides. Having said that, it would seem to me that these days group riding is more the norm than solo - I wonder how many people are out riding in groups every weekend compared to solo or in pairs? All you need is one big group and you've got more bikes than you'll see solo on a given weekend, so my guess is there are more people riding in groups, so there are likely to be more offs on group rides - I refer you to Ix's earlier post.

Like I said before, a badly run group ride (or a solo loony riding beyond his skill) is a recipe for disaster whereas a well run group ride is fine.

[Cracker]

i WAS BORN WITH AN EGO, CAME FROM MY MOTHER
IT WON'T GO AWAY
I LOVE RIDING BIKES, GENERALLY FAST AND A LITTLE LOOSE
I AM THE PROBLEM
SORRY, CAN'T BE FIXED

[Maha]

i WAS BORN WITH AN EGO, CAME FROM MY MOTHER
IT WON'T GO AWAY
I LOVE RIDING BIKES, GENERALLY FAST AND A LITTLE LOOSE
I AM THE PROBLEM
SORRY, CAN'T BE FIXED

Oooooooooo you sound 'HARD'........;)

[R6_kid]

I am unconvinced.

Obviously , if 50 people go out on a ride there is 10 times the likelihood of something happening , than if 5 people go out. That applies to crashes , breakdowns, chundering in helmet, whatever.

But the likelihood for any specific rider is, I think, no different to riding alone. In fact, arguably less, since you have the benefit (usually) of following someone , (and when he hits the gravel etc, you will maybe have a little warning) .

Unfortunately Ixion in this case it's about psychology not statistics. People do things differently in group situations, the more people the more "group think" comes into effect. Unless you are aware of the ways in which you think differently in a group it can actually be quite dangerous. I'm not going to go into huge detail, but one example would be if you are in a group of bikes and a majority proportion are riding in a certain way then it's likely that the rest of the group will tend to follow suit - whether that is the norm for them or not. The sad thing is that it usually only takes one wayward sheep to lead the herd off the cliff.


i WAS BORN WITH AN EGO, CAME FROM MY MOTHER
IT WON'T GO AWAY
I LOVE RIDING BIKES, GENERALLY FAST AND A LITTLE LOOSE
I AM THE PROBLEM
SORRY, CAN'T BE FIXED

Is it cool being able to suck your own dick?

[peasea]

I wonder how many people are out riding in groups every weekend compared to solo or in pairs?

It would be a close thing if I were to total the k's done solo or in pairs. My other half and I tour together and I can't think of anyone else who I'm more comfortable to ride with. It's very rare for me to NOT know where she is on the road and vice` versa; perhaps that rubs off onto others when we're in a group. I hope so.

[peasea]

i WAS BORN WITH AN EGO, CAME FROM MY MOTHER
IT WON'T GO AWAY
I LOVE RIDING BIKES, GENERALLY FAST AND A LITTLE LOOSE
I AM THE PROBLEM
SORRY, CAN'T BE FIXED

Don't come to the Mainland, please:crazy:

[pritch]

Farmers have a saying, something like,
"One dog, you've got a dog
Two dogs, you've got half a dog.
Three dogs, you've got no dog at all."

Boys are like dogs, and so are some people who should be old enough to know better.

As soon as a group ride starts some people throw their brains into neutral, all manner of idiocy becomes acceptable.
I've seen it more than once, and other local KBers of my acquaintance are familiar with the sydrome.
It doesn't happen on every group ride, but it does happen too often.

[shrub]

Don't come to the Mainland, please:crazy:

I doubt he leaves his computer.

[peasea]

I've seen it more than once, and other local KBers of my acquaintance are familiar with the sydrome.

A 'sydrome'?
Is that when your buddy Sydney goes walkabout?

[swbarnett]

It would be a close thing if I were to total the k's done solo or in pairs. My other half and I tour together and I can't think of anyone else who I'm more comfortable to ride with. It's very rare for me to NOT know where she is on the road and vice` versa; perhaps that rubs off onto others when we're in a group. I hope so.
Likewise. Being a commuter most of my riding is solo (unless you count the Auckland traffic). Also, so far almost all of my weekend riding has been either solo or with my wife.

[peasea]

Likewise. Being a commuter most of my riding is solo (unless you count the Auckland traffic). Also, so far almost all of my weekend riding has been either solo or with my wife.

Through what areas of Orks do you commute and how far?

I have a fairly easy 25km jaunt into Nelson and lately it's been an absolute pleasure each way.

[shrub]

I have a fairly easy 25km jaunt into Nelson and lately it's been an absolute pleasure each way.
I'm about to start postgrad studies at Lincoln which will entail a 24 km commute each way. I can't wait!

[peasea]

I'm about to start postgrad studies at Lincoln which will entail a 24 km commute each way. I can't wait!

Why? Lotsa girlies to perv at or wot? Umm, you love the work?

Oh,oh, the ride each way! Yup, that'll be it.

(Winter will wake you up, that's for sure.)

[shrub]

And best of all I'm studying motorcycle safety so I have to read about bikes, ride bikes, do track days and talk about bikes. Until now it's all been voluntary, now I am obliged to do it. While I admire the young ladies.

[swbarnett]

Through what areas of Orks do you commute and how far?

I have a fairly easy 25km jaunt into Nelson and lately it's been an absolute pleasure each way.
17km of motorway or urban roads depending on when I leave home. I live in Mairangi Bay (North Shore) and work in the CBD. Dear say I get more traffic to negotiate than you. Still, I'd far rather do it on a bike than stuck in a cage. The filtering can be a hoot if the conditions and mood are right.

[peasea]

17km of motorway or urban roads depending on when I leave home. I live in Mairangi Bay (North Shore) and work in the CBD. Dear say I get more traffic to negotiate than you. Still, I'd far rather do it on a bike than stuck in a cage. The filtering can be a hoot if the conditions and mood are right.

I used to live on the Shore, Browns Bay, Rothesay Bay then Sunnynook. My work took me all over the North Island and if I couldn't be outta there by 6.00am or earlier then I'd leave it for a few hours. When possible I would ride, so much quicker to get around. Traffic is one of the main reasons I left Auckland. It's a nice place over Christmas when everyone buggers off though.

[peasea]

And best of all I'm studying motorcycle safety so I have to read about bikes, ride bikes, do track days and talk about bikes. Until now it's all been voluntary, now I am obliged to do it. While I admire the young ladies.

It's a hard life eh?

[swbarnett]

I used to live on the Shore, Browns Bay, Rothesay Bay then Sunnynook. My work took me all over the North Island and if I couldn't be outta there by 6.00am or earlier then I'd leave it for a few hours. When possible I would ride, so much quicker to get around. Traffic is one of the main reasons I left Auckland. It's a nice place over Christmas when everyone buggers off though.
I usually don't leave home till 9am so I miss most of the traffic.

I grew up in Auckland and remember it being absolutely dead over Christmas. Not so much lately.