How things have changed

[Ixion]

By chance I found an old copy of the Road Code the other day. It is not old enough to be the one I used when I got my bike licence, but maybe the one I had when I got my car licence, or maybe when my sister got hers. Anyway, it bears no date, but the pictures , based on car styles and clothing, clearly date it to early to mid sixties.

It was interesting reading. And an interesting comparison between the rules and attitudes then, and those now.

For a start is is MUCH smaller and simpler than the present one. And seems a lot more common sense based and less pompous.

It sensibly differentiates between the law (in red) and "sound advice" - in black.

There is very little lecturing and some issues are notably absent . For instance , it simply sets out the speed limits (of which more below) , and says that "if you exceed the speed limit you will be fined". That's it. No lecture.

It does spend more time on dangerous driving, and speed dangerous. Which attracted then an automatic MINIMUM one year disqualification.

Drink driving is similarly short and sweet. And attracted a MINIMUM automatic disqualification of three years , for the first offence. Automatic minimum of 10 years for the second . Plus fines and imprisonment.

Interestingly, the rules then would appear to have made lane splitting illegal. It was very clear that "no passing" lanes (not specified as yellow, just as solid lines), meant "No passing". Penalty for breach, automatic three months disqualification! And the present exemptions about being able to overtake in the same lane, overtake on the left under certain circumstance etc are either not there, or are specifically counterindicated. Overtaking on the left was illegal outside 30mph areas no matter what. And even in built up areas only in very specific circumstances (eg where there were signs or lane markings).

The code was much smaller and thinner than the modern one. But of its 30 pages, it spent two on strictures about not overtaking on no passing lanes , or on blind bends, or blind hills. "If observed by a traffic officer, the penalty is an automatic 3 month disqualification!". And two pages on strictures about keeping left and not impeding traffic. With pictures of "Good driving" and "bad driving " - the latter holding up 4 cars in the picture. "If observed by a traffic officer you will be heavily fined".

Interestingly it also cautioned that when (legally) overtaking , you should move completely to the other side of the road. And warned that crossing the centre line , other than when overtaking , (it was particularly harsh on crossing the centre line on bends and hills) would attract yet another automatic 3 month disqualification "If observed by a traffic officer". No work licences in those days either.

And pages and pages on hand signals. "If you have trafficators or flashing lights you may use these , but do not rely on them" ;). Pages on give way and stop signs (more 3 months disqualifications !) , but no mention at all of traffic lights. Maybe we didn't have them then.

More pages on horse drawn traffic, including the lights they needed (!). And a warning that conviction for a traffic offence while driving a horse drawn vehicle could lead to loss of drivers licence , even though a licence was not needed for a horse drawn vehicle.

The speed limits were interesting. Car and motorbike , open road was 55 mph (90kph). I knew that, but I had forgotten that a motorbike, if carrying a pillion , was limited to 45 mph (70 kph). Built up areas were 30mph (50kph) same as now. And, very interesting, on a provisional licence (the term then for a learner licence) you were limited to 30mph. And a "wise advice" that on a provisional licence you "should not drive on roads having a speed limit greater than 30mph" . Which is interesting in light of our 70kph limit for learners. Clearly, that was a relaxation.

No other speed limits - just open road, built up, and provisional driver.

All in all, I thought the rules then a lot simpler, and clearer. And more sensible. Less anal fussing about minor issues , and a LOT stricter on things that actually are dangerous.

I am not sure that we have advanced much.

[Elysium]

You should forward that to the Hon Steve Joyce (name right?) the transport minster.

[Latte]

Speaking to the vespa riding surfie at work he mentions a time when if you were able to ride your motorcycle to the cop station and request a motorcycle licesne, you got it!

[crazyhorse]

It would make interesting reading for sure. Good find IXion

[quickbuck]

Good post Ixion,
Thanks for that....
Heck, it looks like the Police would have filing cabinets full of suspended licences if they applied some of those penalties now...

Not sure if things have got better either.... Except that I'm allowed to do 100k with a pillion... Oh, and because of the increase in volume of traffic, there is a requirement to overtake slower vehicles more often now...

[Motu]

I remember the red and black writing (they must have carried that on for a few more years).The disqualification terms seem harsh,and although I was only a young guy not able to ride or drive yet...I don't remember many people losing their license.Maybe my family and friends were very law abiding.

[Ixion]

I recall a few being disqualified for drink driving. Not much else. I suspect that the snakes used a fair bit of discretion. And , realistically, there were very few snakes on the open road then .

I suspect part of the rationale behind the apparent relaxation of penalties between then and now would have been that the harsh penalties actually didn't work, because, being harsh, the snakes were reluctant to summons on that charge (there were no 'tickets' as such then, you hard to be sommonsed for any offence) .

[Ixion]

.... Oh, and because of the increase in volume of traffic, there is a requirement to overtake slower vehicles more often now....

I am not so sure of that.

Firstly, yes , greater traffic volume, but on the other hand, there were no multilane highways then (I think we did have the first motorways, of very short distance). No bypasses around towns, either, and definately no passing lanes.

Moreover, there was a lot MORE slow traffic.

Back then a decent 500 or 650 would manage around 80 to 90 mph . But most cars , and almost all small cars , were very lucky indeed if they could reach the speed limit at all. The top speed of cars like the E93A Ford, SV Minor etc was about 50 mph. And trying to maintain anything near that for more than a few minutes would almost certainly blow the engine. There were some fast(ish) cars : Yank V8s, Jags, Super Snipes, the Ford Zephyr - maybe - top speed about 75 mph, but the "blow up the motor" limitation meant that they were really only able to hold 55 - 60 mph for any distance.

And, to balance that, because cars were (a) very dear , (b) very hard to get new , no matter how much money you had , the fleet was a LOT older than it is now.

I remember when I learned to drive , it was in a 1926 model Studebaker, and that was not at all unusual. There were a LOT of cars from the 1920s and 1930s on the roads , and they were even slower. Top speed of an Austin 7 (still very popular in the 1960s) was 45mph. Not so many old bikes, because the army took them all during the war, and never gave them back. Bastards.

So, I think that there was as much need then as now, maybe more, to overtake slow traffic. Certainly that accords with my memories.

[Ocean1]

And pages and pages on hand signals. "If you have trafficators or flashing lights you may use these , but do not rely on them" ;).

When I did my practical I had to use hand signals. The bike had indicators, but I had to signal all turns and stops by hand.


I suspect part of the rationale behind the apparent relaxation of penalties between then and now would have been that the harsh penalties actually didn't work, because, being harsh, the snakes were reluctant to summons on that charge (there were no 'tickets' as such then, you hard to be sommonsed for any offence) .

I suspect there's also a market saturation factor involved. In the eighties, (partly because I was doing huge miles) I exceeded the new(ish) driving brownie points limit. Twice.

After several months of non loss of licence, (the first time) I queried a neighbourhood senior cop. He said not to worry too much, if the the then current points system was enforced some 35% of licence holders would be walking. Not politically tenable.

[Mikkel]

Somewhat draconian, but then again... different times, different circumstances, different laws. (Wouldn't be at all surprised if it made as little sense back then as the current road code does today.)

[red mermaid]

With an attitude displayed in your childish name calling as below, you and any organisation you claim to represent will always struggle to have any credibility in decision making.



I recall a few being disqualified for drink driving. Not much else. I suspect that the snakes used a fair bit of discretion. And , realistically, there were very few snakes on the open road then .

I suspect part of the rationale behind the apparent relaxation of penalties between then and now would have been that the harsh penalties actually didn't work, because, being harsh, the snakes were reluctant to summons on that charge (there were no 'tickets' as such then, you hard to be sommonsed for any offence) .

[JMemonic]

With an attitude displayed in your childish name calling as below, you and any organisation you claim to represent will always struggle to have any credibility in decision making.

Yes officer.....

BTW snakes was the name used bay many members of the community for the Ministry of Transport traffic enforcement arm (commonly known as MoT officers) and the first time I recall hearing the term as a youth was from the mouth of a POLICE officer. So go get over yourself.

[yungatart]

With an attitude displayed in your childish name calling as below, you and any organisation you claim to represent will always struggle to have any credibility in decision making.

Ya what??
Are you Spudchucka reincarnated or summat?

You are a tad sensitive, aren't you? As JM says, get over yourself. They (HP) hav been known colloquially as snakes since long before Adam was a cowwboy.....

[golfmade]

Any chance you have a scanner and could share the Road Code with us?

[JMemonic]

With an attitude displayed in your childish name calling as below, you and any organisation you claim to represent will always struggle to have any credibility in decision making.

Hell just caught the name, a bit pot kettle isn't it

Mermaid = C*nt with scales so a snake with a speciality CVIU hey.....

[JohnR]

I remember the red and black writing (they must have carried that on for a few more years).The disqualification terms seem harsh,and although I was only a young guy not able to ride or drive yet...I don't remember many people losing their license.Maybe my family and friends were very law abiding.

No quotas (sorry performance indicators) either!:msn-wink::Police:

[Ronin]

With an attitude displayed in your childish name calling as below, you and any organisation you claim to represent will always struggle to have any credibility in decision making.

With your propensity to be overly judgemental evident in your above post, any opinion you care to share will always struggle for credibility.

[pritch]

With an attitude displayed in your childish name calling as below, you and any organisation you claim to represent will always struggle to have any credibility in decision making.

Had a bad day? Fail to meet your quota? :devil2:

[shrub]

the penalties were definitely tougher, but the cops were more leniant. In 82 I got pissed and took a mate for a ride and we both ended up in hospital (what a surprise!). Once I was out (I was in a bad way, no helmet and probably 100 mph off) I got called into the cops and he asked me if I had been riding. i couldn't remember (I have still lost the months before and after the "accident"), and he said "I have 2 guys, both pissed. One of you was riding, so I'll charge you both and let the judge decide." I knew I had been riding, so owned up and told him I would never do that again. he said "I believe you. Now fuck off and I don't want to see you again". I never rode pissed again, and it used to be a common thing I did. He knew I had learnt my lesson, yet today I would have been crucified.

I think the cops in those days were interested in stopping people from doing stupid shit, whereas today the focus seems to be on writing out that little old ticket as fast as possible.

[hospitalfood]

I had a cople of breraks from the snakes when I was a younger man, common sense on thier part rather than throwing the book. Still happens a bit but more in the small towns than the cities I think.

[Motu]

They had a bad attitude - but that was caused by having to wear jodhpurs.I can't blame them I suppose,it was a really bad look....but I can still laugh at how stupid they looked.But the boots......it was almost worth killing one just for their boots.They were good riders though - one of our local Cops told us we should be able to take the Panmure roundabout at 50mph....so that became our benchmark.That one wrapped himself around a tree on the Pakuranga Highway,drunk.Yes,even the Cops were human back then.

[BMWST?]

They had a bad attitude - but that was caused by having to wear jodhpurs.I can't blame them I suppose,it was a really bad look....but I can still laugh at how stupid they looked.But the boots......it was almost worth killing one just for their boots.They were good riders though - one of our local Cops told us we should be able to take the Panmure roundabout at 50mph....so that became our benchmark.That one wrapped himself around a tree on the Pakuranga Highway,drunk.Yes,even the Cops were human back then.

i had a pair of those boots.Cant remember where i got them.I think i bought them new somewhere?

[Chooky]

Yer did my bike licence in 1962 at Otahuhu cop shop... Cops were always refered to as snakes, which is more polite than the P*G name of today....
Anyway, turn up for ride test 1 week after my 15th birthday with my brothers BSA, 1st thing cop said, how long you been riding...? I says 1 week.... Cop said ok lets have a look......
Anyway, passed piece of piss then got a lecture about how me and me brother were going to share a bike while were both on learners.....
I said no problem, I've got my own Puch... He was so happy to hear that....
Well here I am now, almost on the fukin pension and still not sick a riding bikes...

This was really about snakes......

[Dadpole]

.it was almost worth killing one just for their boots.

The ones with the strap & buckle at the top? A friend had a set, and we always claimed dibs on them if he wrote himself off. Come to that, a brief lie down would have seen us ripping them off.

[MSTRS]

They had a bad attitude - but that was caused by having to wear jodhpurs.I can't blame them I suppose,it was a really bad look....but I can still laugh at how stupid they looked.But the boots......it was almost worth killing one just for their boots.

The only snake I 'met' was actually very lenient...in a single stop, he did me for 12mph over, but let me off 2 bald tyres, 8 in a Humber 80 and a straight pipe for an exhaust.
The City Council cops on the other hand...absolute pricks.
Oh, and I too had a pair of 'those' boots. :cool:

[vifferman]

I was talking to a cop a while back, and he referred to the HP as 'snakes' as well, and infered that the really enthusiastic snakes weren't anyone's mates - even the other members of the constabulary didn't like them.

As for the 'old' road rules - we just accepted them, as the enforcement of them was generally fairly applied, and as said by others, most of the MOT seemed more concerned with road safety than ticket issuing. When I did my bike test, despite having indicators on the bike, I had to use hand signals. A bit tricky braking and giving a stop signal at the same time.

[Ixion]

Yer did my bike licence in 1962 at Otahuhu cop shop... Cops were always refered to as snakes, which is more polite than the P*G name of today....
...

No, snakes were traffic cops. The "real" cops were never called snakes. But hardly anyone had any dealings with "real" police back then, cos they were only concerned with criminals. And back then motorists weren't automatically criminals

They called themselves that, proud of the name. But I think, strictly speaking , only the MoT traffic cops were snakes. The MoT guys had a very low opinion of the council traffic cops. That low opinion was deserved. But the MoT guys were professional - pedantic nitpicking arsehole professionals, sometimes, but professionals, and I think they didn't agree with the title "snake" being used by the council wallies.

Yeah, those boots were the schnizz. Why can't I buy boots like that nowadays? Water proof they was too. And yes, they were bloody good riders. Fast, and safe. Granted, they had more incentive not to crash than the rest of us. We only had to worry about being killed or injured. They had to worry about explaining to Sergeant Snakely why the snakemocycle was written off. Better death than that interview.

I had a great deal of (grudging) respect for the old snakes.

[vifferman]

And yes, they were bloody good riders. Fast, and safe.
Mot of 'em.
We had one in Rotorua that crashed two bikes, then got stuck in a car instead. Managed to crash that as well.

[MSTRS]

And yes, they were bloody good riders.

Just think how many of us would NOT have got away, if the MOT bikes were 'set-up' properly...

[SPman]

Top speed of an Austin 7 (still very popular in the 1960s) was 45mph. Untrue - mine would do 56mph! But you were praying when you did it!

[MSTRS]

Untrue - mine would do 56mph! But you were praying when you did it!

Praying that the brakes were better than the car towing you?

[Ixion]

Untrue - mine would do 56mph! But you were praying when you did it!

Must have been an Ausitin Ulster

[SPman]

Austin "big" 7, 1938. 56mph on the speedo down the Dairy Flat straight with the quarter elliptics trying to toss you across the road in a random manner at each (frequent) bump! Cost 40 quid with a selection of wheels and a spare motor from a boat.

[pritch]

Oh, and I too had a pair of 'those' boots. :cool:

I don't believe you guys. I always thought nobody but a cop would be seen dead in those...

As mentioned here before I was once spared a ticket from a mufti cop bike soley because the rider was wearing those ridiculous bloody boots.
An unmarked BSA, a one piece riding suit, a real crash helmet (with an MOT badge on the front I later discovered), nothing to suggest he was a cop - except those bloody boots... :whistle:

[Pixie]

I had a cople of breraks from the snakes when I was a younger man,

If you are going to persist using archaic measurements and terms for excrement,I will cease reading your posts.

[Pixie]

Untrue - mine would do 56mph! But you were praying when you did it!

Must've been the GTO version