Ractech and a rotting stench

[Viscount Montgomery]

So I go looking for a stiffer spring to throw on my rear shock to shorten up the 45mm of rider sag a bit. Racetech US have a good selection of stiffer ratings on their site, US$109 for the spring. That's NZ$154. Shipping was usually around the US$35 mark, so looking at about NZ$185-195 delivered to my doorstep. Shipping being a bit of a rip, but easier than rowing it across the pacific in your own canoe..

I've purchased racetech products from them before, and they were quick and efficient.


Better check out racetech NZ next methinks, surely they've got something here for me... probably an extra 20 bucks or so more, but she'll be right. Find their website, lo and behold there's the same spring - WTF? NZ$299.00. Plus postage. Yeah right! Thanks but no thanks, I've no intention of throwing over $100 into the nearest incinerator.


So it's back to the racetech US site, go to load the online order form and hello, hello, page refuses to load.. funny, it used to work OK before.. Just detecting a faint rotten smell coming from somewhere now..

Ah, I know, it's probably just the firefox browser.. Click up IE and try again. Nah, same result - all kosher UNTIL the order form. The faint rotting smell is getting a little bit more distinct now...

Rattle off an email to racetech US and ask them what the shipping costs will be to send over one spring. By and by, I get the slightly evasive reply -

"Thank you for your interest in Race Tech. We do however have a distributor in New Zealand that will be happy to help you out with your request. I will leave there (THEIR) info below so that you can go ahead and contact them."


Now the rotting stench is begining to really come in strongly ... Rattle off another email telling racetech US that their online form isn't loading and do they not ship internationally now?



By and by, back comes the reply -

"We do sell to the public and you cannot order on-line, it is not available and will not be available for some time. You can contact Crown Kiwi directly and they will be able to help you. We do not sell to international customers if we have a distributor in that area."


NOW THE ROTTEN STENCH IS REALLY COMING THROUGH IN WAVES. My, my, I wonder who the faceless toads scuttling behind the scenes are who set these slippery wheels in motion? huh? huh?

Contemptable greasy crap. Needless to say, as far as I'm concerned, racetechNZ can now go and get fucked

[peasea]

So I go looking for a stiffer spring to throw on my rear shock to shorten up the 45mm of rider sag a bit. Racetech US have a good selection of stiffer ratings on their site, US$109 for the spring. That's NZ$154. Shipping was usually around the US$35 mark, so looking at about NZ$185-195 delivered to my doorstep. Shipping being a bit of a rip, but easier than rowing it across the pacific in your own canoe..

I've purchased racetech products from them before, and they were quick and efficient.


Better check out racetech NZ next methinks, surely they've got something here for me... probably an extra 20 bucks or so more, but she'll be right. Find their website, lo and behold there's the same spring - WTF? NZ$299.00. Plus postage. Yeah right! Thanks but no thanks, I've no intention of throwing over $100 into the nearest incinerator.


So it's back to the racetech US site, go to load the online order form and hello, hello, page refuses to load.. funny, it used to work OK before.. Just detecting a faint rotten smell coming from somewhere now..

Ah, I know, it's probably just the firefox browser.. Click up IE and try again. Nah, same result - all kosher UNTIL the order form. The faint rotting smell is getting a little bit more distinct now...

Rattle off an email to racetech US and ask them what the shipping costs will be to send over one spring. By and by, I get the slightly evasive reply -

"Thank you for your interest in Race Tech. We do however have a distributor in New Zealand that will be happy to help you out with your request. I will leave there (THEIR) info below so that you can go ahead and contact them."


Now the rotting stench is begining to really come in strongly ... Rattle off another email telling racetech US that their online form isn't loading and do they not ship internationally now?



By and by, back comes the reply -

"We do sell to the public and you cannot order on-line, it is not available and will not be available for some time. You can contact Crown Kiwi directly and they will be able to help you. We do not sell to international customers if we have a distributor in that area."


NOW THE ROTTEN STENCH IS REALLY COMING THROUGH IN WAVES. My, my, I wonder who the faceless toads scuttling behind the scenes are who set these slippery wheels in motion? huh? huh?

Contemptable greasy crap. Needless to say, as far as I'm concerned, racetech can now go and get fucked

This sor of shit happens too often and good on ya for posting your experiences. Nobody would mind the local distributor making a few bucks but sometimes they go too far and are way too greedy. It happens a lot with Harley parts and I simply refuse to play the game. Ultimately they are shooting themselves in the foot; then they wonder why their business goes to the wall.

[tri boy]

Errr, CKT have the NZ master franchise for Race Tech products.
They have invested a shitload of time and pingers into that franchise, and offer the best service to Kiwis looking to improve their ride.
Also, I'm fairly certain that if people would just contact CKT, they may find that they can do more for them than what they think. ie spring swaps etc, invaluble set up advice gained from many years setting up thousands of road/dirt/track bikes.
That $100 is not thrown away, just pick up the ph, or email them.MHO

[Stormdragon]

You could try contacting Dave Moss at Feel The Track (http://www.feelthetrack.com/). (Great suspension videos available too.) I'm not sure if Dave does Race Tech, or Ohlins but E-mail's free. There's also the guys at Traxxon Dynamics (http://traxxionstore.com/) as an alternative possibility.

If you're set on springs from Race Tech, they could be delivered to me, and I'll ship them on to you. I've done similar trades back and forth with a couple guys from England. I can't get KR250 parts here, and for some reason they have a hard time getting Honda RS125 parts there.

[Viscount Montgomery]

You could try contacting Dave Moss at Feel The Track (http://www.feelthetrack.com/). (Great suspension videos available too.) I'm not sure if Dave does Race Tech, or Ohlins but E-mail's free. There's also the guys at Traxxon Dynamics (http://traxxionstore.com/) as an alternative possibility.

If you're set on springs from Race Tech, they could be delivered to me, and I'll ship them on to you. I've done similar trades back and forth with a couple guys from England. I can't get KR250 parts here, and for some reason they have a hard time getting Honda RS125 parts there.


Thanks for that Storm, I am definitely interested in your kind offer and wouldn't hesitate to throw you some extra cash for your trouble mate.

WILL SEND YOU AN EMAIL LATER. CHEERS.

[Headbanger]

Companies will continue to lose customers if they refuse to acknowledge the market is now International and we can find out the worth of a product in a few minutes. There is already a markup built into the price when sourced from overseas, and we can see the obvious when the local price is set so high above that.

Recently I have been looking at setting up a retail business in an unrelated field but decided against it as they are forcing the use of a local destributer whose price wholesale is higher then the retail internationally, I'd be telling any customers I get not to shop through me, its a ripoff, here go to this website. Hell, If I went ahead with the project I wouldn't even buy my own gear, I'd buy from overseas.

[Viscount Montgomery]

For sure. Charging DOUBLE the price of a product to a New Zealand customer, then in the same foul swoop, choking off the only available alternative is just plain inexcusable, and a lousy money-grubbing stunt. No amount of weasel-words trying to justify this shit will wash with me.

[CookMySock]

For sure. Charging DOUBLE the price of a product to a New Zealand customer, then in the same foul swoop, choking off the only available alternative is just plain inexcusable, and a lousy money-grubbing stunt. No amount of weasel-words trying to justify this shit will wash with me.Damn straight. Try comparing hyosung parts locally to import-your-own and you will get the same fright.

It's hard to make money out of something that you cant double your dollar on though, so importers are not in a good position. Maybe an innovative approach is required, but that is often not explored until they have to get off their arse.

Steve

[Katman]

I don't know of very many filthy rich people in the motorcycle industry.

I wonder how many people who moan about the cost of motorcycle parts in New Zealand have ever run their own business (and I don't mean just selling ice-creams).

How many moan about the 100%+ mark-up that the shops put on the price of their TV, their washing machine, their stereo, their playstation etc.

The mark-up in the motorcycle industry is nowhere near that of most other businesses.

[SixPackBack]

I don't know of very many filthy rich people in the motorcycle industry.

I wonder how many people who moan about the cost of motorcycle parts in New Zealand have ever run their own business (and I don't mean just selling ice-creams).

How many moan about the 100%+ mark-up that the shops put on the price of their TV, their washing machine, their stereo, their playstation etc.

The mark-up in the motorcycle industry is nowhere near that of most other businesses.

That may be true re: mark-up and filthy rich motorcycle folk, but the fact remains that a large disparity in cost is evident in NZ sourced suspension and that sourced from overseas. A logical explanation for what looks like gouging has yet to be forwarded by local suppliers.

[Katman]

A logical explanation for what looks like gouging has yet to be forwarded by local suppliers.


Or maybe the American market and the New Zealand market are two totally different things.

American importers order items in the thousands - New Zealand wouldn't even get to order them in the hundreds.

Who do you think gets the better buy price from the manufacturer?

[Headbanger]

The mark-up in the motorcycle industry is nowhere near that of most other businesses.

The point is we can bring in a single item at a lower cost then what the local supplier can provide one, at this means someone has given themselves a hefty increase to the detriment of the local market and retailers. There is no way an item should be manufactured in Japan,exported to the USA, purchased from a retailer, Be packaged and put on a plane,come all the way around the world, then be couried to your door for less then the local retailer.

This doesn't apply to bigger items as the postage would kill it so your reference to other industries doesn't fit, try importing a lounge suite of 50" plasma for example.

[pc220]

I don't know of very many filthy rich people in the motorcycle industry.

I wonder how many people who moan about the cost of motorcycle parts in New Zealand have ever run their own business (and I don't mean just selling ice-creams).

How many moan about the 100%+ mark-up that the shops put on the price of their TV, their washing machine, their stereo, their playstation etc.

The mark-up in the motorcycle industry is nowhere near that of most other businesses.
Yeah but the point is we as customers are been denied an alternative.

[Headbanger]

Or maybe the American market and the New Zealand market are two totally different things.


Did you miss the memo?, 2010, The market in International. Perhaps retails need to petition the manufacturers for direct purchases or resort to parallel importing. In this day and age the middle man is redundant, Now they only exists to take a cut and protect their own interest...which is taking a cut. Even worse when teh "middle man" is retailing to the public at an inflated price.

[Swoop]

...the same foul swoop, and a lousy money-grubbing stunt.
I didn't do it!! Honest!!:crazy:

The stuff I bring in, I put $20- bucks on for time involved in ordering, and that's it!!:weep:

[Katman]

Did you miss the memo?, 2010, The market in International. Perhaps retails need to petition the manufacturers for direct purchases or resort to parallel importing. In this day and age the middle man is redundant, Now they only exists to take a cut and protect their own interest...which is taking a cut. Even worse when teh "middle man" is retailing to the public at an inflated price.

So is it only the postage cost that puts you off buying your home theatre system direct from Sony Japan?

[onearmedbandit]

How many moan about the 100%+ mark-up that the shops put on the price of their TV, their washing machine, their stereo, their playstation etc.

The mark-up in the motorcycle industry is nowhere near that of most other businesses.

Typical maximum mark up in a TV at a major retailer is around 23-24%. And that is RRP. How often do you see 20% off sales on TV's but not 25% off? And when one store is having a sale, then all stores that want to compete have to follow suit. Not uncommon to have to sell a brand new $5000 TV with 5% margin, or less. Whiteware? Well if your selling F&P once again, plenty of 20% off sales, never a 25% off sale. Stereo's? Yip, you guessed it. Playstations? Hahahaha. Around 5-7% margn to the retailer. It's laughable.

[Katman]

Typical maximum mark up in a TV at a major retailer is around 23-24%. And that is RRP. How often do you see 20% off sales on TV's but not 25% off? And when one store is having a sale, then all stores that want to compete have to follow suit. Not uncommon to have to sell a brand new $5000 TV with 5% margin, or less. Whiteware? Well if your selling F&P once again, plenty of 20% off sales, never a 25% off sale. Stereo's? Yip, you guessed it. Playstations? Hahahaha. Around 5-7% margn to the retailer. It's laughable.

Oh well - I heard something quite different from someone in the electrical appliance business.

Maybe they were just feeding me bullshit.

What about the mark-up that the corner dairy puts on a loaf of bread?

[steve_t]

Isn't it hard for NZ resellers to compete with overseas markets due to duty, GST, other taxes, overheads etc? Plus how many people have been shit out of luck trying to return things to the states plus getting stung for the postage again and again?

[pc220]

I need to put some new fork springs on the bandit, Until I read this thread CKT was to be my first choice. But not now as I clearly cant afford to buy from them, and I wont be considering Racetech springs at all. So how many potential customers can a business afford to miss out on for the sake of such a large price differance. Nothing against Robert and CKT it just comes down to $$$$.

[The Pastor]

Or maybe the American market and the New Zealand market are two totally different things.

American importers order items in the thousands - New Zealand wouldn't even get to order them in the hundreds.

Who do you think gets the better buy price from the manufacturer?


why would the manufactorers cost differ if they are making 3000 units + 150 units?

[onearmedbandit]

Oh well - I heard something quite different from someone in the electrical appliance business.

Maybe they were just feeding me bullshit.

I work for one of the major retailers of these products, and these are the sort of margins we have to start with. Customers are price sharp in todays market, once they get the product knowledge they require the hunt for the best price. A Sony TV is a Sony TV no matter where it's bought for most customers, ignoring aftersales service. Of course there are rebates and price drops by the manufacturers but this is only to respond to the market or move current models to make way for the next. It's a volume game.

[Headbanger]

So is it only the postage cost that puts you off buying your home theatre system direct from Sony Japan?

It is the postage cost of large items that makes personally importing them to be cost prohibitive, for the record I bought most of my audio gear from Trademe for a handful of pennies, However I have invested many many thousands of dollars in RC toys (I am after all a big kid) and I get 95% of it either from Asia or the USA.

[Katman]

What about the 50 cents that it cost the takeaway shop for your $3.00 worth of chips?

[onearmedbandit]

why would the manufactorers cost differ if they are making 3000 units + 150 units?

Manufacturing costs don't differ. Put it this way. Picture a major retailer, one that everyone knows and is quite successful, going to their supplier. They want 1000 units of a certain product, but want it at a price that to the manufacturer isn't that appealing. But they know the retailer is a large fish, and if they don't accept the retailers offer (they will still be making money, just far less than their business plan really allows for) the retailer will drop all their products. So, to keep their brand in this companyso to keep selling other products through them, they fold and accept the price. Now picture the same scenario with a small shop that sells only a few of their products.

Who's going to get the better price? Volume earns you a better buy rate.

[Headbanger]

Back when I owned a retail outlet the margins were so tight that the cost of getting an item couried to Wanganui from the distributor in Auckland put my purchase price above an auckland retailer who would supply the item with free delivery, and it would beat my item to the door.

Lmao.

And buying in bulk, 100 minimum units would save me about 22c per item.

[The Pastor]

what about the 50 cents that it cost the takeaway shop for your $3.00 worth of chips?

power oil and wages, news paper and salt bring that right up to 55c

[tri boy]

This is quite a funny thread. I bet 18-24 months ago, when things were humming along financialy for most people, you lot wouldn't have been whining about a lousy hundy.

[Headbanger]

The two Fish n Chips shops down the road had a price war (after one attempted to burn down the other), $1 chips, $1 fish, $1 Hotdog.

Granted its pretty foul food.

[Headbanger]

This is quite a funny thread. I bet 18-24 months ago, when things were humming along financialy for most people, you lot wouldn't have been whining about a lousy hundy.

Personally, If the item was available immediately or within 24 hours I'd pay the extra depending on how much extra the extra is, In fact I rarely even price up other options if its on the shelf, (and yes,what follows is a worst case scenario) but when a major retailer that licks their own balls about how fantastic they are tells you six weeks and $300 when you can get it yourself from the states in 5 days for $116, well, Fuck em.

[sil3nt]

Perhaps try http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/

[Kiwi Graham]

I'm sure with a bit of round the houses you could buy whatever you wanted from overseas. You take the risk and pay your money and yes often it can be less then the same item here.

But What about after sales and warranty? CKT is without equal in its after sales service in my opinion. I would gladly pay $100 more for something that will be looked after mostly FOC and with any amount of advice and the convienience of being local (dont forget CKT are never far from anyone during the winter and summer series).

New Zealand is a small player in a massive market, we dont hope to compete in cash terms but we make up for it in fukin good service, those that don't provide that level of service wont be around for long.

I've struggled to rebuild a late model R1 with top quality SH parts over the last few weeks. If I lived in America or England it could have been done in a matter of days and for a lot less $$$ but its the price you pay for living in 'Gods Own' I'm currently getting the second front end sent from the good old US of A because the first one vanished en-route!

Edit; And when I get them, guess who's getting em........yep RT

Belive me if you can source your parts here (even if a little dearer) buy it here.

[CookMySock]

The mark-up in the motorcycle industry is nowhere near that of most other businesses.The list price on this item is retail nz$1500.

http://www.hyosungsource.com/parts/gt250r/gt250r-digital-speedometer-assembly

The price on that page is nz$. Explain?

Steve

[=cJ=]

**shug** you pays your money, you takes your chances.

I buy local as much as possible, I figure the time spent harassing the guys at the shop is probably worth far more markup than they put on their products.

[Robert Taylor]

Amazing how people get all emotional and assume the worst.
Shall I relay the story about the guy who used an online spring calculator and ordered springs on that basis, only to find the selected rate was too aggressive for our local roads. If he had bought off us we would likely have got it right first time, if they werent right for the individual customer we woulfd have exchanged them , no fuss.
Buy a set of emulators off us for Pro Twins and we carry out a very specific mod to them at no further cost that dramatically improves their performance for such an application.
We have a large range of good used springs at a fraction of the price, and a number of used fork springs, did I fail to mention that.

Did I also fail to mention that many smaller goods arrive into NZ ''under the radar'', they may exceed in value the ''threshold of custom interest'' NZ$700 or more. Likely a fraudulently underwritten invoice. No electronic EDR transaction fee, no port fees, no maf fees, etc, no gst on those fees and no gst on the stated value of the goods. Everything that a legitimate business has to pay. I have no problem paying such fees, I do have a problem that so many people escape such fees and gst.
The most emotive posts are clearly from those who have no conception of what vit costs to run a business and also have no idea of how unlevel the playing field is .
I proudly put my country above self interest.

[Robert Taylor]

Race Tech are also largely cleaning up their act internationally, due to pressure from distributors worldwide.

What is DESPICABLEAND GREASY in our deregulated market is those reselling imported goods ( imported largely under the radar ) on Trade Me, and contravening Trade Me rules by not having the goods there and then. Making a few dollars for pocket money ( almost no margin ) and making a mockery of the infrastructure and huge investment that many distributors of many types of product have. The same distributors may have invested hugely in advertising and profile and these parasites feed off that....

[quickbuck]

The most emotive posts are clearly from those who have no conception of what it costs to run a business and also have no idea of how unlevel the playing field is .
I proudly put my country above self interest.
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

Sorry Robert, I've run out of Rep.......

I must say, your "After Sales" is second to NONE! Yup, would hate to try and swap a spring back to the States during the lunch break.....

[Robert Taylor]

why would the manufactorers cost differ if they are making 3000 units + 150 units?

The distributor buying 3000 units gets a much better buy price than the one buying say 50 units. Reality.

[CookMySock]

I proudly put my country above self interest.snort, whut?

NO ONE "proudly puts their country above their self-interest". Thats daft.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

That may be true re: mark-up and filthy rich motorcycle folk, but the fact remains that a large disparity in cost is evident in NZ sourced suspension and that sourced from overseas. A logical explanation for what looks like gouging has yet to be forwarded by local suppliers.



The same situation prevails in Australia and Canada and probably a few cother economies, not because of the local distributors. I would explian but its commercial and sensitive, and not for making massive profits as so many incorrectly think.

[Robert Taylor]

snort, whut?

NO ONE "proudly puts their country above their self-interest". Thats daft.

Steve

No its not daft, I could have purchased a boxed set of DVDs this week off Amazon for around $30 less than buying local. I chose local because it was supporting a local business who employ New Zealanders.
Im getting a new logfire installed by a local plumber, his instal price is a little dearer than some other options, but I am returning the fact he has done business with me.
I would much rather put money into the pockets of New Zealanders than overseas and therefore do my bit to help ensure there is employment available.

[Robert Taylor]

What is also often ignored is that many NZ retailers are prepared to haggle on price, we do this all the time with package prices. It reflects adversely on our balance sheet but we accept that as a reality in a tough economic climate with some veery weighted overses competition.
If there is an issue with price or anything else talk directly to me, simple

[peasea]

I don't know of very many filthy rich people in the motorcycle industry.

I wonder how many people who moan about the cost of motorcycle parts in New Zealand have ever run their own business (and I don't mean just selling ice-creams).

I'm one.

Motor trade; always gave my customers a good deal, got heaps of return business, rarely advertised coz the punters did it for me. Nobody ever minded paying a fair price for anything at my shop and I still did ok out of it. Not rich, just comfy. I moan about the price of motorcycle parts when I can see a rip off and if I need something I usually go online and check prices in other markets (usually OZ and the USA) before making local enquiries. You're mad if you don't.

[gixerracer]

Man your a wanker robert you told me you would get a heat pump from me because you love me Im going to rip up my new ohlins T-shirt for rags now I can get another new one from sweden cheaper anyway
No its not daft, I could have purchased a boxed set of DVDs this week off Amazon for around $30 less than buying local. I chose local because it was supporting a local business who employ New Zealanders.
Im getting a new logfire installed by a local plumber, his instal price is a little dearer than some other options, but I am returning the fact he has done business with me.
I would much rather put money into the pockets of New Zealanders than overseas and therefore do my bit to help ensure there is employment available.

[Robert Taylor]

Man your a wanker robert you told me you would get a heat pump from me because you love me Im going to rip up my new ohlins T-shirt for rags now I can get another new one from sweden cheaper anyway

I m still getting the heat pump to cool my house down CBRracer! Can I get it at the same price I got that T shirt to you at? T shirts arent sacred where they are made, look at the label......no wonder I was able to give it to you, on the back of my filthy capitalist profits!!!

[dipshit]

I wonder how many people who moan about the cost of motorcycle parts in New Zealand have ever run their own business.

I'm sorry, but when I hear of people in NZ having to pay $1800 for a GSX600F headlight (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/115393-Issues-with-headlight-getting-chipped-or-cracked?p=1129586514#post1129586514) that goes for $272 USD overseas... or $2500 for a Honda ST1300 headlight (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/115393-Issues-with-headlight-getting-chipped-or-cracked?p=1129587800#post1129587800) that goes for $350 USD overseas...

...I have no sympathy for the bike industry in NZ if its customers find other alternatives.

That kind of pricing is simply retail suicide.

[avgas]

Errrrr why are RaceTech having pricelist on an international website.......then not making this RRP
this is international business 101 no no

[Slyer]

Racetech make a good product, springs and emulators transformed my bike. Was close to buying from the states but bought from CKT in the end. No hassles but I did pay $300 for my springs and another $300 for my emulators...

[dipshit]

The list price on this item is retail nz$1500.

http://www.hyosungsource.com/parts/gt250r/gt250r-digital-speedometer-assembly

The price on that page is nz$. Explain?

The only explanation I can think of, is that the importers and distributors in the NZ motor industry think we are stupid. (sure, the retailers probably don't have much of a margin on it)

[Viscount Montgomery]

Like I said before, all the excuses, all the grandiose statements, all the side-tracking, all the weasel-words from the apologists, the hollow, insincere hype of 'supporting the country' - none of it erases the stink.

FACT: Racetech NZ have pulled a lousy cynical stunt by shutting down access to a previously available great product, and are now blatantly without a moments hesitation, attempting to palm off the same product to the local market at TWICE THE FUCKING PRICE.

It's NOT complicated. It's not rocket science. It's very very simple. Are people that bloody stupid that they can't see what's going on here?

[Ronin]

Back when I owned a retail outlet the margins were so tight that the cost of getting an item couried to Wanganui from the distributor in Auckland put my purchase price above an auckland retailer who would supply the item with free delivery, and it would beat my item to the door.

Lmao.

And buying in bulk, 100 minimum units would save me about 22c per item.

Same industry is worse now. Someone in a shed somewhere selling the same item online for the same price that I buy it for before I put any margin on.

[The Stranger]

Or maybe the American market and the New Zealand market are two totally different things.

American importers order items in the thousands - New Zealand wouldn't even get to order them in the hundreds.

Who do you think gets the better buy price from the manufacturer?

So why don't the local distributors cut a deal with the American importers - after all, that is all a private importer is doing isn't it?
We were after an exhaust for a race bike, over 4k here, 2.8 from the states. Local distributor couldn't supply for 6 weeks, it was here from the US in a week.
Why didn't the local distributor simply do what we did and order it from starcycle FFS?

[LBD]

The list price on this item is retail nz$1500.

http://www.hyosungsource.com/parts/gt250r/gt250r-digital-speedometer-assembly

The price on that page is nz$. Explain?

Steve


The only explanation I can think of, is that the importers and distributors in the NZ motor industry think we are stupid. (sure, the retailers probably don't have much of a margin on it)

I think some clever software at work....When I click on the link I get some funny asian currency pricing....The site must detect your region and price in your local currency

[The Stranger]

I'm sure with a bit of round the houses you could by whatever you wanted from overseas. You take the risk and pay your money and yes often it can be less then the same item here.

But What about after sales and warranty? CKT is without equal in its after sales service in my opinion. I would gladly pay $100 more for something that will be looked after mostly FOC and with any amount of advice and the convienience of being local (dont forget CKT are never far from anyone during the winter and summer series).

New Zealand is a small player in a massive market, we dont hope to compete in cash terms but we make up for it in fukin good service, those that don't provide that level of service wont be around for long.

I've struggled to rebuild a late model R1 with top quality SH parts over the last few weeks. If I lived in America or England it could have been done in a matter of days and for a lot less $$$ but its the price you pay for living in 'Gods Own' I'm currently getting the second front end sent from the good old US of A because the first one vanished en-route!

Belive me if you can source your parts here (even if a little dearer) buy it here.

When will people learn? VICTORIAN MOTORCYCLE WRECKERS!

[SixPackBack]

The same situation prevails in Australia and Canada and probably a few cother economies, not because of the local distributors. I would explian but its commercial and sensitive, and not for making massive profits as so many incorrectly think.

As stated a reasonable explanation is yet to be forwarded. If you value local customers inform them as to the 'why'; honesty may win the day.

The reality is that many would love to support local distributors but find the large disparity in cost a major barrier. And if overseas distributors are gaining far greater discount on volume, why do Ohlins/Racetech prostitute their very own market?.......It reflects badly on the brand/s and must test the loyalty of local distributors.

The disparity seems to only affect certain brands and products, we cannot [for example] purchase cheaper motorcycles overseas [all things being equal, tax etc]. So why do only certain products come in prohibitively priced?.....The argument of volume hardly applies given NZ's size.

[golfmade]

Bing stenches here in Taiwan as well then, and the crock of it all is most of the stuff I've looked at is fuckin' made here in Taiwan but exported to the States.

Two case in points:

Computer parts. Built a desktop a year or so ago and was looking at the price of the exact same parts here in Taiwan as back home. Even though most of them were made right here in Taiwan, it was a couple hundred US more to build my desktop then it would have been for the exact same parts back in the States.

Bicycles: Giant bicycles are a Taiwan brand and made here as well. They have some sweet looking beach cruisers that I've had my eye on. But, go into a local Giant shop and they have no way of getting the cruisers. Go on to Giant's American website, cruisers galore. Taiwan website, nada. Furthermore, contact several bike stores back home who I did business with before, they won't ship internationally. So, no beach cruiser for me.

Not quite as severe as what you're talking about but I thought the world was supposed to be more and more open.

[slowpoke]

Some pretty bitchy whining here about the price of stuff. Simple solution: if you don't like it don't buy it. So what if someone has tied up the rights to sell something, it happens in all sorts of industry's for all sorts of products and it's up to the retailer what they decide to charge. I repeat, if you don't like the price don't buy it, the concept isn't exactly rocket science.

So what's the next bitchy whiny thread gonna be about? "I bought this Race Tech product direct from Race Tech in the 'States and now the local Race Tech agent won't help me out with it?!!". Yep, you don't mind rubbishing a business by name, but won't post your name and/or relinquish rights to the after sales service that business would provide. To compare simply buying a spring from the 'States to buying a spring + service from the local agent simply isn't comparing apples to apples.

It's just not like buying a TV, or a headlight from overseas. You don't have to go to the 'States for training to become (or continue to be) an accredited headlight salesman or service agent. Your business doesn't suffer while you are doing said training. You don't choose to trek all over the country helping out people who put their lives on the line racing headlights. You don't invest time and money in developing headlights to suit the local conditions. You don't have to build/buy specialised equipment for servicing headlights, both workshop based and transportable. Etc etc

Not to mention in the 'States you can defray all that cost over 100's of units, whereas in NZ you have a 20th of the sales to defray it against, and have to wack GST on top of that. And try contacting your supplier in the 'States on a Saturday arvo when you have got some problems at the track and see what response you get........

I dunno, I reckon we're actually blessed with the standard of suspension service in NZ. Rain or shine there are at least 2 well regarded businesses who front up to the race meetings (in the North Island at least) and you don't have to be in a factory team to have a free of charge chat with either of them. So you may only have an average road bike, the old axiom of "racing improves the breed" applies as much to the technicians as sit does to the machines.

[tri boy]

The after sales assistance from RT is the real value in NZ.
Maybe he should ask people to quote their CKT invoice# when they ring him to whine about the poor handling of their bike after they butchered fitting emulators/cartridge units etc that they got online at a slightly cheaper price.
Same at track days.
Glad I'm out of the industry now. A new generation of plonkers have eclipsed the last generation by a thousand fold. MHO

[Kiwi Graham]

When will people learn? VICTORIAN MOTORCYCLE WRECKERS!

Tried them mate, got my clutch cover from them but alas no front end.

[sidecar bob]

Its for reasons like this that i dont do work for people that are in BMW car club.
You get a bunch of idiots with access to the internet that think they are suddenly smarter than an individual that has put a working lifetime into understanding how to get the best from the product they own.
Finding a spring chart on the internet does not make you a suspension technician, merely an idiot.
While i occasionaly take the piss out of Mr Taylor in good humour, i cant recall another product/ company of any sort that offers the level of after sales service he does.

[pritch]

then in the same foul swoop,

I think you'll find that's supposed to be "fell swoop".

It's a good idea to buy local, but it isn't always easy. I saw some CDs on Amazon that I liked the look of so I went to the local shop to see if he had them. He didn't, neither it seemed, did his distributors. So he asked me to go back to Amazon and do research to acquire a lot of detail so that he could track down a source.

I might do that, but probably not. I'll likely just order the things from Amazon while I'm at their website.

I buy books from the local bookshop if they have them. Otherwise Amazon gets the order.

Recently Robert re-specced my VFR Ohlins shock to fit the S4R. When doing so he built it to the standard settings. When I got to ride the bike I found the suspension to be so harsh that I was expecting my fillings to start falling as the gentle rain from heaven...

Road tests often comment on the harshness of Ducati Ohlins settings. Great on the track, not so hot even on many European or British roads. Let alone our bloody goat tracks.

I advised Robert of this. He commented that he considered the spring rate was correct but that he would soften the valving. Which he promptly did at no additional charge. Now I can travel at speed and in considerable comfort.

Had I bought a shock ex the USA at a lower price, I might well have had to spend the difference at the dentist's. :whistle: Certainly riding the bike would have been a lot less pleasurable than it is now.

It is possible to purchase helmets in the USA much cheaper than here. My new Arai came ex NZ. The different Arai head shapes are a minefield, and this is compounded by the fact that the various models have different names in the USA to the names used here.

As always you pays your money and you makes your choice.

If that makes me an apologist in the eyes of some so be it. :devil2:

[dipshit]

You don't have to go to the 'States for training to become (or continue to be) an accredited headlight salesman or service agent.... You don't choose to trek all over the country helping out people who put their lives on the line racing headlights. You don't invest time and money in developing headlights to suit the local conditions.

I absolutely agree. I will purchase my suspension components from a NZ specialist because there is good reason to. I will purchase a replacement headlight from overseas because there is no reason not to.

Consumer choice will dictate the market. A market trying to dictate consumer choice will ultimately fail.

[SS90]

I absolutely agree. I will purchase my suspension components from a NZ specialist because there is good reason to. I will purchase a replacement headlight from overseas because there is no reason not to.

Consumer choice will dictate the market. A market trying to dictate consumer choice will ultimately fail.

Well said, just think about how much capital CKT has to outlay to have the springs in stock......trust me, when a bank looks at your books, as a bike shop, quite often they piss themselves, the margins are shit, the risks are high, and the turnover low, by in large, it is a service.

If they have it in stock, and have a big margin, accept it, on the other hand, if they have to order it, and still put 150% on it, that is a different story.........

[gixerracer]

well how about you stop your fucking crying on the inter web thingy and buy some shit from overseas and save you self $20 and why your at it start up your own company and import all your own gear and supply all the other whingers and see how easy it is to make a living out of it
Like I said before, all the excuses, all the grandiose statements, all the side-tracking, all the weasel-words from the apologists, the hollow, insincere hype of 'supporting the country' - none of it erases the stink.

FACT: Racetech NZ have pulled a lousy cynical stunt by shutting down access to a previously available great product, and are now blatantly without a moments hesitation, attempting to palm off the same product to the local market at TWICE THE FUCKING PRICE.

It's NOT complicated. It's not rocket science. It's very very simple. Are people that bloody stupid that they can't see what's going on here?

[vifferman]

Shall I chime in here? Yes? No?
Great deals on the Interdweeb aren't always as good as they appear.

Amazing how people get all emotional and assume the worst.
Shall I relay the story about the guy who used an online spring calculator and ordered springs on that basis, only to find the selected rate was too aggressive for our local roads. If he had bought off us we would likely have got it right first time, if they werent right for the individual customer we woulfd have exchanged them , no fuss.
I dunno if he's referring to me, but that's what happened to me.
The handling was fantastic, but the forks gave me a hell of a workout at speeds between 70 and 90km/h on our rough back-country roads.

I bought a good shock at an excellent price from a forum group buy: half the price of an Ohlins bought (and fitted and tuned!) here. However, freight+insurance added another $250 to the ticket price, and the saving was then only ~$250. I spent this on Sonic springs (which were too firm) and replacing the Sonic springs with Ohlins. Further increases to the cost of the shock include not being sure I've got the correct rate spring fitted so may need to buy another one, the damping valving doesn't seem quite right, and I would have to either pay $$$ to return it to the factory for servicing, or get CKT to do it anyway. The nett result is I've effectively saved NOTHING (in fact, it's cost me MORE), and my bike still isn't properly fettled.

It's not all like that - there are savings to be had in Interdweebland, but you need to be savvy and careful. I needed some APE manual camchain tensioners for my VTR a few years ago. I wanted to buy them from the sole NZ dealer, but it really rubbed me up the worng way having him ordering and buying them from the same source as me and adding a 100% markup for going through the exact same channels as me. In the end, I bought them plus a throttle position sensor from a guy in the UK for less than the price of any one of the items, and had it on my doorstep in 6 days.
I've also bought quite a few other bike parts, new and used, and while most of them are good, it hasn't all been plain sailing - I've bought a couple of expensive lemons.

I still purchase some things on Teh Interdweeb, because I've got sick of the chant "Sorry - they're not in stock, that'll be 3 weeks, ex-Japan, please pay up front". That's not good enough, and frankly I feel it's an insult to me as a customer. It might have been OK back in the days when we were a captive market, but nowadays dealers really need to "get with the times" and provide a better quality of customer service or go find something else to do.

[Swoop]

Playstations? Hahahaha. Around 5-7% margn to the retailer. It's laughable.
Presumably iPods are in the same basket. There is always the disclaimer on sales brochures that they are "specifically not included". Parallel Imported has stopped bringing them in since they do not make enough on them.

[Big Dave]

You know the yarn.
An Engineer retires from the factory.
The factory breaks down and nobody can work out how to fix it.
They call the retired Engineer as a last resort, he says 'I can fix it but it will cost you $500 per hour'.
After all other efforts are exhausted they employ him as a consultant for $500 an hour or part thereof.
So he goes down to the Factory, grabs a big hammer and whacks the boiler just where the valve sticks.
All good, production resumes - $500.
'$500 for hitting the boiler with a hammer! Outrageous!' Claims management.
'No' says the Engineer 'The $500 is not for hitting the boiler. It's for knowing where to hit it.'

[onearmedbandit]

Presumably iPods are in the same basket. There is always the disclaimer on sales brochures that they are "specifically not included". Parallel Imported has stopped bringing them in since they do not make enough on them.

Exactly, very little margin in Ipod's. The only reason retailers put up with this is because Ipod's/PS3's/etc are the in demand products. Hopefully when they come in to buy one, they'll buy something else or come back to your branch later to buy something. By not stocking them (and when parents come in wanting an 'Ipod' for little Johny or Jenny, that's what they have to get, not a Sony or Phillips MP3 player) you will lose that customer to another retailer who does.

[pritch]

Somewhat off-topic but...

"Santa" brought me a second iPod. This one has one extra Gig storage, a video camera, a colour screen, a radio, and I can watch Comedy Central etc etc on Podcasts, and it cost just over half what the first one cost ($560 ish?).

Mind you, I might've been able to get one from overseas for less, but this was on "special" so...

[gixerracer]

Presumably iPods are in the same basket. There is always the disclaimer on sales brochures that they are "specifically not included". Parallel Imported has stopped bringing them in since they do not make enough on them.

Sounds like they should get in to the bike market should get plenty of turn over just from KB:innocent:

[kwaka_crasher]

"Added value" is something for the buyer to decide. This is one situation where I'd go local if I could find someone I felt I could trust.

But for something like genuine spares etc. where it's just a matter of supply, no fucking way. 6 weeks ex-japan when I can get from the US in less than 10 days? I hope the locals starve!

[sidecar bob]

But for something like genuine spares etc. where it's just a matter of supply, no fucking way. 6 weeks ex-japan when I can get from the US in less than 10 days? I hope the locals starve!

So more of them can end up on the benifit & your taxes & ACC levies can go up? You either pay, or you pay, your choice.

[kwaka_crasher]

Much cheaper just to have them on the dole. Better for society too.

[boman]

I bought off RT. No regrets. The after sales service has been superb. I have no complaints, and would do it again. I probably could have bought cheaper, and then had no after sales service. Probably would have cost me more money and time with no bike.


No regrets at all.

[pc220]

I need to put some new fork springs on the bandit, Until I read this thread CKT was to be my first choice. But not now as I clearly cant afford to buy from them, and I wont be considering Racetech springs at all. So how many potential customers can a business afford to miss out on for the sake of such a large price differance. Nothing against Robert and CKT it just comes down to $$$$.
After reading the entire thread, I am now wondering if CKT could supply me with a large slice of Humble pie.

[tri boy]

After reading the entire thread, I am now wondering if CKT could supply me with a large slice of Humble pie.

Ya live n learn buddy.
We have all been there.:)

[Kickaha]

I bought off RT. No regrets. The after sales service has been superb. I have no complaints, and would do it again. I probably could have bought cheaper, and then had no after sales service. Probably would have cost me more money and time with no bike.


No regrets at all.

Same as my experience with them

[Owl]

Try purchasing a Sargent seat directly from the manufacturer, as can be done in the US. The reply will come via the local (Australian) distributer at a much higher price +gst this end. Nothing local there and where's the back-up?

As for RT/CKT, I've had the pleasure of dealing with them. Mods weren't cheap, but I got what I wanted and it was done once, done right. My only regret now is that I took so long making the decision to get the work done.

I'll be keeping this bike for some time, but the priority for my next ride will be a visit to RT. I also notice, the people (non KB) that were so keen to offer me suspension advice and give flack for paying RT's prices, are the same people still moaning about their suspension. Fuck, I'm laughing!:lol:

[F5 Dave]

So I go looking for a stiffer spring to throw on my rear shock to shorten up the 45mm of rider sag a bit. Racetech US have a good selection of stiffer ratings on their site, US$109 for the spring. That's NZ$154. Shipping was usually around the US$35 mark, so looking at about NZ$185-195 delivered to my doorstep. Shipping being a bit of a rip, but easier than rowing it across the pacific in your own canoe. . . .

ok so I'm assuming that Racetech who have been selling-out-the-factory-door with their owner can do everything service means that dealers probably don't get much (any?) mark off as with other business models.

so $200 into country, put a 30% mark up as a starting point & that takes you to $260, sell it & the government's take pushes that to $292. How is that "twice the fukin price" as you stat later? OK this is only a finger painting with available figures, maybe RT gives dealers more mark, but they still have to pay for staff, advertising & holding a bit of stock, some of which might never sell, or some that they swap out & probably have to discount if the box is lost by last chap. + time pissin around with customers, clearing agents, there is always a drama every so often.

People have to make a margin or it is not worth thier while. in NZ we have historically had instances where there have been too many fingers in the pie with importers, distributors & retailers taking a cut. That model has to change, this is an internet world. But this leaning out is occurring.

[F5 Dave]

I m still getting the heat pump to cool my house down CBRracer! Can I get it at the same price I got that T shirt to you at? T shirts arent sacred where they are made, look at the label......no wonder I was able to give it to you, on the back of my filthy capitalist profits!!!
Well I'm not sure where the Ohlins hats are made, but maybe the model Swedish head is somewhat diminutive, I had to give mine to a small passing girl.

[jellywrestler]

finger painting .
Finger painting? isn't that what lesbians look forward too once every 28 days?

[Viscount Montgomery]

I'm not here to get into slanging matches with people on a personal level, the young wet-behind-the-ears squid crowd like to stoop down there when I tell them, on the whole as a group, they're a bunch of wankers. But once you get into slanging matches on a personal one on one level, it just leaves a bad taste.


Now, that out of the way, the same tired excuse I've heard on this site a hundred times over - "yes, the price is high but we offer exceptional service" is a crock of shit. What service? How many people buy a product, say springs, shocks, pipes, bars, whatever, - slap it on their bike, then go running to the shop every 5 minutes wanting 'service'.

The fucking thing is on the bike, bolted up, and there to stay. If you can't do it yourself then get the shop to do it . Blabbing on as if 'servicing' is some sort of special privilege that you should be bowing and scraping on your knees to get is just so much bluster blowing in the wind.

The high-roller crowd here are so out of touch with the average working New Zealander it's a joke. Lots of gullible riders here a totally brainwashed by all the used-car-salesman hype. Totally convinced by the word sharks that they're all getting a fantastic deal, that 'the best' is only good enough etc.. etc....

To me, telecom, the sleazy power companies, the gas companies, the shifty supermarket chains with their $5 a kg apples and $45 a kg snapper fillets (that sit untouched all day, then mysteriously disappear somewhere overnight) they're all the fucken same, if they can get away with shafting Joe Public - then they'll fucking try it on, no hesitation.


Why would I pay 299 dollars or more for a bloody shock spring that sits for sale in the States for US$109? The sums are all fucked up. Where's my $299 plus postage going to end up? Anyone who thinks it's going to 'support the community' is living in a fantasy.

All it's going to support is Racetech NZ's building lease, woolworths, the power company, Racetechs latte/cafe bills, their daily self-flagellation sessions, and the occasional overseas junket to go watch some strange dalmation prick, in a white jacket, with a heavy accent, pushing a felt-tip pen around flow-charts on a gucci whiteboard.


Mind you, New Plymouth is well known as a strange, creepy town with a strange, sinister population of people. Who really knows what kind of depraved activities my extra money would be funding over there... And we all thought that Levin, Balclutha and Devonport held the largest combined population of deranged people in this country..


Racetech have crawled their way to the position of having free reign over prices' and can hammer home any price that they feel like charging - with impunity. Which they've done.


I'm not having a bar of it.

[tri boy]

VM knows all,. All bow to the mighty VM:rolleyes:

[Robert Taylor]

The perpetrator of this thread says he is not going to get into a slanging match and then launches into a toxic diatraibe of slanging.
Lets hear it from this person what he does for a living, what his position is and scutinise closely the industry he is in? Maybe hed also like to man up and divulge his name and address, if he has the courage to snipe away then he also has the courage to do that.
I do not drink latte and I do not kick around anywhere in the world with people dressed in Gucci. My lifestyle is not lavish by any means and I work at least 70 hours every week, often more during the race season.
We are ALL hypocrites. No need to elaborate for those that can think rationally and logically.
Yes, granted indeed there are pricing issues with many imported goods, many of them very extreme, unexplianable and unjustifiable.
Theres most likely a correlation between those who grizzle the most and those who least understand business and the minefield that is distribution in a small vulnerable country.
That very small displaced economies are most affected by the open market is a given. Most businesses in NZ are very small and cannot do numbers. Business people have spouses and dependents as do their employess. Is it lost or conveniently ignored by those that grizzle loudest and longest that this is where these people earn a living so they can have three meals a day and a roof over their heads? The more that is purchased overseas on the open market the weaker day by day that small NZ business becomes. Where do these people go? We cannot all live off the Government, who derive most of their tax base from ( you guessed it ) small business. The long term prosperity of this country depends on the viability of small business and their ability to employ and pay decent wages for a decent days work. Heaven knows we should be more and more geared to export on the back of an exchange rate that is closer to about 55 cents US. We should also be according clearance charges and gst on literally everything that arrives into the country so that on that basis alone it helps to level the playing field a little.....and the Governments tax take would be increased enormously so that we can at least start to recover some ground after 9 wasted years of a diabolical Government.
Yes there does need to be some realignment in terms of traditional wholesale and retail etiquette, most distributors are still as much as possible trying to do the right thing in allowing a dealer margin, and I can tell you those margins are not handsome. But then I procrastinate all the time that good dealers committed to the product deserve a margin, those that just pick the eyes out of every product and order once in a blue moon ( and havent worked for the sale ) deserve little or no margin.
Our products are very technical and we spend a lot of time dialing them to our specific road conditions that have a very high percentage of bumps etc. That is added value and I make no aplogy to being committed to offer such service.. And as someone else correctly intimated an overseas based ''spring rate calculator'' doesnt automatically make you a suspension technician. Point of fact many of these calcs are overly aggressive for our conditions. Everyting that is on the internet is ''correct''....yeah right. The faceless parasites that sell this stuff have no idea of our conditions, nor do they care.
If you end up with a spring sold to you by one of these companies and the selected rate is too soft or too firm its going to be a costly exercise to return it, more often than not. If you buy locally and the selected rate turns out to be not quite right( even after several weeks use to determine ) we exchange at no further cost excepting local freight recoveries. Similarly with internal shock valving as Pritch very kindly pointed out. In his case we in the first instance didnt want to second guess the standard valving spec, but when it proved to be a little harsh for our roads we were more than happy to put our hand up and optimise it for him at no extra cost. Pritch vwas a gentleman to deal with, we pre haggled a bit on price prior to building the shock and came to an agreement . There are more than a few people around who could learn a thing or two about old world manners.....
The reality is if you deal with me directly and afford common courtesy and decency I am happy to be flexible on price within sensible boundaries. But Im not going to go bust for anyone either. Seen that happen often.

Now I must away, Im looking out at the panoramic seascape of activity from my waterfront mansion. The new leather armchairs are really comfy and I especially like the new solid oak sidetables that have just been delivered, they are the right height so that I dont have to strain unduly to reach my cocktails. I will be bored with this soon though and retire to the southerly end of the house that overlooks the 1000 acres of plains where I can witness herds of vildebeests majestically sweeping across the horizon. It also troubles me which vehicle Im going to drive to the bordello tonight, the Ferrari or the new Aston. I think Ill also phone ahead and get the girls to dress in full Nazi regalia, about 5 of them should do the trick.
The politics of envy is still very much alive, as is simplistic ignorance

[Robert Taylor]

Finger painting? isn't that what lesbians look forward too once every 28 days?

Ive always been a lesbian....

[Robert Taylor]

Well I'm not sure where the Ohlins hats are made, but maybe the model Swedish head is somewhat diminutive, I had to give mine to a small passing girl.

They are made in a country that should only be allowed to make rice....nothing is sacred. Happily the suspension units derive all the raw materials from predominantly Sweden and Germany, as are the subcontractors, prior to assembly by nubile Swedish nymphs.

[gixerracer]

you need to get a life man and may be sell that motorbike it is clearly way to much drama for you
I'm not here to get into slanging matches with people on a personal level, the young wet-behind-the-ears squid crowd like to stoop down there when I tell them, on the whole as a group, they're a bunch of wankers. But once you get into slanging matches on a personal one on one level, it just leaves a bad taste.


Now, that out of the way, the same tired excuse I've heard on this site a hundred times over - "yes, the price is high but we offer exceptional service" is a crock of shit. What service? How many people buy a product, say springs, shocks, pipes, bars, whatever, - slap it on their bike, then go running to the shop every 5 minutes wanting 'service'.

The fucking thing is on the bike, bolted up, and there to stay. If you can't do it yourself then get the shop to do it . Blabbing on as if 'servicing' is some sort of special privilege that you should be bowing and scraping on your knees to get is just so much bluster blowing in the wind.

The high-roller crowd here are so out of touch with the average working New Zealander it's a joke. Lots of gullible riders here a totally brainwashed by all the used-car-salesman hype. Totally convinced by the word sharks that they're all getting a fantastic deal, that 'the best' is only good enough etc.. etc....

To me, telecom, the sleazy power companies, the gas companies, the shifty supermarket chains with their $5 a kg apples and $45 a kg snapper fillets (that sit untouched all day, then mysteriously disappear somewhere overnight) they're all the fucken same, if they can get away with shafting Joe Public - then they'll fucking try it on, no hesitation.


Why would I pay 299 dollars or more for a bloody shock spring that sits for sale in the States for US$109? The sums are all fucked up. Where's my $299 plus postage going to end up? Anyone who thinks it's going to 'support the community' is living in a fantasy.

All it's going to support is Racetech NZ's building lease, woolworths, the power company, Racetechs latte/cafe bills, their daily self-flagellation sessions, and the occasional overseas junket to go watch some strange dalmation prick, in a white jacket, with a heavy accent, pushing a felt-tip pen around flow-charts on a gucci whiteboard.


Mind you, New Plymouth is well known as a strange, creepy town with a strange, sinister population of people. Who really knows what kind of depraved activities my extra money would be funding over there... And we all thought that Levin, Balclutha and Devonport held the largest combined population of deranged people in this country..


Racetech have crawled their way to the position of having free reign over prices' and can hammer home any price that they feel like charging - with impunity. Which they've done.


I'm not having a bar of it.

[Kickaha]

prior to assembly by nubile Swedish nymphs.

Pics or it didn't happen

[gixerracer]

can i borrow the aston or the ferrari
The perpetrator of this thread says he is not going to get into a slanging match and then launches into a toxic diatraibe of slanging.
Lets hear it from this person what he does for a living, what his position is and scutinise closely the industry he is in? Maybe hed also like to man up and divulge his name and address, if he has the courage to snipe away then he also has the courage to do that.
I do not drink latte and I do not kick around anywhere in the world with people dressed in Gucci. My lifestyle is not lavish by any means and I work at least 70 hours every week, often more during the race season.
We are ALL hypocrites. No need to elaborate for those that can think rationally and logically.
Yes, granted indeed there are pricing issues with many imported goods, many of them very extreme, unexplianable and unjustifiable.
Theres most likely a correlation between those who grizzle the most and those who least understand business and the minefield that is distribution in a small vulnerable country.
That very small displaced economies are most affected by the open market is a given. Most businesses in NZ are very small and cannot do numbers. Business people have spouses and dependents as do their employess. Is it lost or conveniently ignored by those that grizzle loudest and longest that this is where these people earn a living so they can have three meals a day and a roof over their heads? The more that is purchased overseas on the open market the weaker day by day that small NZ business becomes. Where do these people go? We cannot all live off the Government, who derive most of their tax base from ( you guessed it ) small business. The long term prosperity of this country depends on the viability of small business and their ability to employ and pay decent wages for a decent days work. Heaven knows we should be more and more geared to export on the back of an exchange rate that is closer to about 55 cents US. We should also be according clearance charges and gst on literally everything that arrives into the country so that on that basis alone it helps to level the playing field a little.....and the Governments tax take would be increased enormously so that we can at least start to recover some ground after 9 wasted years of a diabolical Government.
Yes there does need to be some realignment in terms of traditional wholesale and retail etiquette, most distributors are still as much as possible trying to do the right thing in allowing a dealer margin, and I can tell you those margins are not handsome. But then I procrastinate all the time that good dealers committed to the product deserve a margin, those that just pick the eyes out of every product and order once in a blue moon ( and havent worked for the sale ) deserve little or no margin.
Our products are very technical and we spend a lot of time dialing them to our specific road conditions that have a very high percentage of bumps etc. That is added value and I make no aplogy to being committed to offer such service.. And as someone else correctly intimated an overseas based ''spring rate calculator'' doesnt automatically make you a suspension technician. Point of fact many of these calcs are overly aggressive for our conditions. Everyting that is on the internet is ''correct''....yeah right. The faceless parasites that sell this stuff have no idea of our conditions, nor do they care.
If you end up with a spring sold to you by one of these companies and the selected rate is too soft or too firm its going to be a costly exercise to return it, more often than not. If you buy locally and the selected rate turns out to be not quite right( even after several weeks use to determine ) we exchange at no further cost excepting local freight recoveries. Similarly with internal shock valving as Pritch very kindly pointed out. In his case we in the first instance didnt want to second guess the standard valving spec, but when it proved to be a little harsh for our roads we were more than happy to put our hand up and optimise it for him at no extra cost. Pritch vwas a gentleman to deal with, we pre haggled a bit on price prior to building the shock and came to an agreement . There are more than a few people around who could learn a thing or two about old world manners.....
The reality is if you deal with me directly and afford common courtesy and decency I am happy to be flexible on price within sensible boundaries. But Im not going to go bust for anyone either. Seen that happen often.

Now I must away, Im looking out at the panoramic seascape of activity from my waterfront mansion. The new leather armchairs are really comfy and I especially like the new solid oak sidetables that have just been delivered, they are the right height so that I dont have to strain unduly to reach my cocktails. I will be bored with this soon though and retire to the southerly end of the house that overlooks the 1000 acres of plains where I can witness herds of vildebeests majestically sweeping across the horizon. It also troubles me which vehicle Im going to drive to the bordello tonight, the Ferrari or the new Aston. I think Ill also phone ahead and get the girls to dress in full Nazi regalia, about 5 of them should do the trick.
The politics of envy is still very much alive, as is simplistic ignorance

[Kickaha]

Now I must away, Im looking out at the panoramic seascape of activity from my waterfront mansion. The new leather armchairs are really comfy and I especially like the new solid oak sidetables that have just been delivered, they are the right height so that I dont have to strain unduly to reach my cocktails. I will be bored with this soon though and retire to the southerly end of the house that overlooks the 1000 acres of plains where I can witness herds of vildebeests majestically sweeping across the horizon. It also troubles me which vehicle Im going to drive to the bordello tonight, the Ferrari or the new Aston. I think Ill also phone ahead and get the girls to dress in full Nazi regalia, about 5 of them should do the trick.:spanking:

Party at Roberts place :woohoo::apint::Punk:

[steve_t]

No brainer. Aston :niceone: There's nothing like the feel of something new :laugh: Haha

[AllanB]

An interesting thread.

No personal problems with Mr T, indeed if my lotto ticket comes in or a rich Auntie dies I will probably give him a call for some goodies. As far as suspension goes in NZ I posted elsewhere only this morning before reading this that I'd like a cheaper alternative than the top line Ohlins that would still be better than replacing a stock unit, but actually supported by a NZ company in the manner RT does.

Why settle for something less?

Unless the above mentioned lotto win or death occurs, I as per many, are not and cannot foresee in the near future the situation where I will have 2 large or more to spend on suspenders. Plus if I am honest I just don't ride that fast to 'need' Superbike grade stuff.

Back to NZ costs - I have and will probably continue to bitch about the cost of aftermarket pipes in NZ.

Quoted at about $1600 for a pair of slip on Yoshi's for my Hornet (that type of $ would be better spent on Ohlins!).

Numerous USA stores for the same thing, shipped to my door within a week - NZ$900-1000

Hell I can get them ex Aussie for under $900.

This part of the market is overpriced in NZ. Period.

As far a business goes in NZ - I am in a company that prints product. Our premium product has been printed offshore for years now as NZ can not even come close in price (the rest of product is all printed locally). We were happy to pay a extra margin to keep printing in NZ but it was not even close. I deal with 2 offshore companies - both appear to be in a pricing war presently and we are getting extremely good prices.
We will not be dropping our wholesale prices to reflect this, consequently retail will not alter.
WHY?
We have been absorbing constant increases in running the business over a number of years to retain good price point RRP's. This time we will benefit from a small glitch.
I make no apologies for this.

I do note that many retailers ignore our RRP as they are entitled to do and set their prices much higher where they think the market will pay. If we drop our wholesale prices they will NOT lower their retail prices to suit.

Also possibly of interest to readers if the GST increases to 15% we have a range of 'economical' product that would be pushed over what we considerable a fair RRP - consequently we will then lower our wholesale on this range to cover the increase to keep the RRP as it is. Other companies will do the same on some products. Hopefully retailers will retain these RRP's on this range.

At the end of the day I purchase bike stuff based on many factors. If the NZ price is only slightly higher, I buy from here, if I believe I need a warranty with the product, I buy locally. Things like the above mentioned pipes I would not hesitate to purchase off shore.

[Headbanger]

There is most likely a correlation between those who grizzle the most and those who least understand business and the minefield that is distribution in a small vulnerable country.


Getting sick of that crap, This thread and every similar thread we have gets vast input from knowledge and experienced people who are more then capable of sizing up the situation and can comprehend the basic concepts of supply and demand and market forces, You stress the point that no one knows anything apart from yourself and then claim you can't tell the real reasons as its commercially sensitive.

Do you believe your talking to a bunch of idiots? OK, You have already stated thats exactly who you believe you are addressing.

Truth be told I hear from multiple people your a champion bloke and an expert at what you do with suspension, and I'm happy to believe that, But your not someone who I would come to for business advice, You seem to have locked yourself in a little bubble.

[Squiggles]

I believe Powercommander also attempt to lock you out from buying offshore...

[dipshit]

6 weeks ex-japan when I can get from the US in less than 10 days? I hope the locals starve!

Exactly, most consumers won't give a fuck about the local. Thinking otherwise is living in a fantasy land.

Or how many people would like to go back to the days of ratepayers subsidising the local Toyota car assembly plant and put back the 50% import tariff on all the BMWs, Audis, Peugeots, Citroens, Fiats, Volvos etc to make them unaffordable and everybody just go back to driving dull boring Toyotas..???

[Robert Taylor]

can i borrow the aston or the ferrari

No, but you canborrow the Lambo and the hot Swedish au pair. I may let you use the hot tub and the fridge.

[Robert Taylor]

Getting sick of that crap, This thread and every similar thread we have gets vast input from knowledge and experienced people who are more then capable of sizing up the situation and can comprehend the basic concepts of supply and demand and market forces, You stress the point that no one knows anything apart from yourself and then claim you can't tell the real reasons as its commercially sensitive.

Do you believe your talking to a bunch of idiots? OK, You have already stated thats exactly who you believe you are addressing.

Truth be told I hear from multiple people your a champion bloke and an expert at what you do with suspension, and I'm happy to believe that, But your not someone who I would come to for business advice, You seem to have locked yourself in a little bubble.


I disagree, there have been many good posts with balanced viewpoints by people that do understand, heck Allan Bs post that immediately preceded yours put forward some very valid and balanced viewpoints.
Unlike the perpetrator of this thread I can actually see the argument from both sides without getting bitter, twisted and downright rude. Even managed to inject a little bit of cynical humour.
Like many distribution businesses the pressure to drop retail margins is immense. But also like I intimated, where do all the employess go that are dispalced by the shift in the market? They cant all work for the Warehouse on subsistence wages or be on the dole.
And then I forgot to mention another hot potato that reflects on business overheads and therefore balance sheets, ACC. Arguably employers for many years have borne a considerable amount of the burden of ACC and in fact have possibly got more reason to grizzle than motorcyclists.....?
When I was an employee back in 85 I had a big motorcycle accident at high speed that but for the grace of my protestant god I survived, coming out miraculously with only a broken wrist. Maybe as you say I am in a bubble.....I was paid at I think 80% of my then salary but in fact I was embarrassed that I was burdening the Government ( ie taxpayer ) I was not so incapacitated that I couldnt be useful so for the time that I was in plaster etc I went regularly to work to do what I could.
There has to be a balance and right now small business in NZ is suffering from not only the prevailing market forces but also a playing field that is anything but level. I have detailed those reasons in many threads previously. I would rather see full employment here than everyone saving a few dollars by buying overseas.

[FROSTY]

Im in a similar situation to CKT in that everything I sell is imported from overseas.
Reality is anybody could do what I do and save themselves not just $100 but more likely $1000-$2000
And some people do just that.
But the question I ask is a line from an old clint eastwood movie--"Dya feel lucky punk? well dooya?"
Theres a bit more risk involved in buying/iomporting a car than a spring for sure.
But if the spring gets lost in transit. If its the wrong weight. if the exchange rate takes a dive youll end up outa pocket either a bit or a lot.
So I guess its a question of deciding the risk level you are comfortable with.

As much as VM suggests that it isn't the case there is value to having a "man on the ground" Again what value you place on that ability to make a phone call for advice is up to you.

[Robert Taylor]

Exactly, most consumers won't give a fuck about the local. Thinking otherwise is living in a fantasy land.

Or how many people would like to go back to the days of ratepayers subsidising the local Toyota car assembly plant and put back the 50% import tariff on all the BMWs, Audis, Peugeots, Citroens, Fiats, Volvos etc to make them unaffordable and everybody just go back to driving dull boring Toyotas..???

Yes those days were just as ridiculous but as I have said elsewhere there has got to be a balance. Much as I hate to say it back in the 72-75 Labour Government the then commerce minister Warren Freer proposed a MRP ( maximum retail price ) It didnt get off the ground and would have been a minefield but it had merit....
The sooner our exchange rate weakens significantly against green backs and other currencies the better, exports do more for the health of our economy.

[BMWST?]

Well said, just think about how much capital CKT has to outlay to have the springs in stock......trust me, when a bank looks at your books, as a bike shop, quite often they piss themselves, the margins are shit, the risks are high, and the turnover low, by in large, it is a service.

If they have it in stock, and have a big margin, accept it, on the other hand, if they have to order it, and still put 150% on it, that is a different story.........

jesus guys think about it.It costs real dollars to run a retail business...real big dollars.The price a shop sells something for has to cover the runnings costs of said business.Fact of life.Its not rocket science.If you thinks its so easy open a shop yourself and sell your parts to be competitive withthe mail order warehouses.How will you pay your staff,rent.telephone and power?Its costs thousands every month before you even stock the shelves and open the doors .

[Headbanger]

Unlike the perpetrator of this thread I can actually see the argument from both sides without getting bitter, twisted and downright rude.

So, he has a style of delivery that means he can't see both sides of the issue?

Everyone knows it costs to run a business, everyone knows that few retailers are getting rich, everyone knows that buying overseas means no comeback ,and the after-sale service* may suffer, But thanks to the globalized market and the ease of finding information we can look up a price,weigh up all the factors and come to the correct conclusion, Someone in the supply line has jacked up the price over and above a reasonable amount.

The end result is the local agent suffers as customers spread the word and take thier money elsewhere, This is market forces at work, It will only gain momentum in the future and if a brand cares about the market they will adjust their prices to suit, if not they will just keep prices high and cream any mug who buys without question or research.

*I've got to say though that local outlets do themselves few favours, I've had immediate and informed responses from overseas outlets that would shame the crap that comes from many NZ outlets, if you get a response at all.

[scracha]

The sorta guy that buys your IT or electronic stuff from the cheapest supplier on pricespy, cries when the supplier doesn't deliver on service (they can't...not with their 3% markup) but then still expect expert advice and support from your local IT or electronics guy(s) for next to nothing.

Bit like people whining about callcentres "full of bloody punjabs"......whaddya expect?? You get what you pay for.

[Robert Taylor]

So, he has a style of delivery that means he can't see both sides of the issue?

Everyone knows it costs to run a business, everyone knows that few retailers are getting rich, everyone knows that buying overseas means no comeback ,and the after-sale service* may suffer, But thanks to the globalized market and the ease of finding information we can look up a price,weigh up all the factors and come to the correct conclusion, Someone in the supply line has jacked up the price over and above a reasonable amount.

The end result is the local agent suffers as customers spread the word and take thier money elsewhere, This is market forces at work, It will only gain momentum in the future and if a brand cares about the market they will adjust their prices to suit, if not they will just keep prices high and cream any mug who buys without question or research.

*I've got to say though that local outlets do themselves few favours, I've had immediate and informed responses from overseas outlets that would shame the crap that comes from many NZ outlets, if you get a response at all.

No, he just doesnt want to hear both sides of the story, its all black and white. Easy to pick up from his rude demeanour. And if you think that every outlet in NZ is creaming it you are sadly mistaken. Is every sales outlet in NZ tarred with the same brush? I think not.

[Headbanger]

No, he just doesnt want to hear both sides of the story, its all black and white. Easy to pick up from his rude demeanour. And if you think that every outlet in NZ is creaming it you are sadly mistaken. Is every sales outlet in NZ tarred with the same brush? I think not.

He doesn't need to hear it, its not rocket science or a mystery, and in his case he was dealing with a local distributor so much of it doesn't apply.

And try not to tell me what I think, real world examples have been put forward numerous times, and usually worst case scenarios are used to illustrate the point.

[Robert Taylor]

he doesn't need to hear it, its not rocket science or a mystery, and in his case he was dealing with a local distributor so much of it doesn't apply.

And try not to tell me what i think, real world examples have been put forward numerous times, and usually worst case scenarios are used to illustrate the point.

why dont you start a business importing motorcycle accessory parts? You clearly have all the answers and will be able to put all those dirty filthy thieving capitalists out of business and be able to pay top rates for motivated and highly informed staff........

[Dutchee]

On the basis of this thread, we should all be growing/making our own food, power, water, compost and whatever else. We should not be paying rates, insurance etc, because they are all thieves who want to rip us off.

Make our own bricks, grow our own trees so that we've got timber for the houses (or mud huts, whatever tickles your fancy and depending on how long you can waitt for the trees to grow).

Clothes will be made from wool from our sheep/goats or cows that we've slaughtered, because they're all out to get money out of us.

Basically, we need to be self-sufficent.

Oh, no more tv or computers, phones etc. But it doesn't matter, we don't work anyways, as the capitalists are out to get us.

No more motorcycles anyway, as them arabs are ripping us off with their charges for oil (yeah, I know).

As to the original argument if anyone has bothered to read this blather so far, yes, CKT have their mark-up. They have their overheads to pay for (staff, warehouse, power, computers etc etc etc). They also have to pay for each shipment they order. Those shipments are not pre-ordered by consumers. They have to sit in the warehouse until someone wants something out of it. They pay GST on every shipment. They can't afford to import one spring at a time, it's not feasible. They need to consolidate to order, hence the delay if it's not on the shelf. I am not affiliated with them or any other company.

I do agree on service. I'm pretty harsh when dealing with suppliers of products I want. If they give good service, I'll probably go with them, even if I can get a better deal somewhere else. I've been impressed with 3 companies recently. Having an alarm installed at home, had a quote within a few hours of my initial phone call. I did call one other company, but had made up my mind already that I was going with the first guy. A Suzuki shop (Colemans) got back to me within 10 minutes of me enquiring about pricing for parts for my husband's bike. I contacted someone we had dealt with back in 2007 about an invoice for those goods. I had a reply within half an hour, advising me where to find it on the net (I had found it after my initial email, but didn't have time to let them know).

I have also contacted a supplier down the line somewhere about some kitchen products I want. After a week or maybe two, I've heard nothing. I don't want their product now anyway (out of curiosity, anyone seen click-clack boxes for sale in Auckland? I haven't).

Actually, I've been impressed with a number of NZ companies lately, and figured out I'm the worst kind of consumer, as I want answers within a reasonable timeframe. I'm not working at the moment, but what time I have got is valuable to me (even if it's when I want to relax with a book, it's my time). Oh, I am prepared to wait for product most times though, so long as the service is there to begin with.

Anyway, if anyone's selling anything with no profit, can you let me know. I'd like to be able to buy your stock when you go out of business. If you're offering a service with no profit, same deal - surely you've got a van or something I can buy off you.

[Headbanger]

why dont you start a business importing motorcycle accessory parts? You clearly have all the answers and will be able to put all those dirty filthy thieving capitalists out of business and be able to pay top rates for motivated and highly informed staff........

Lol, No need to be snarky or silly, I've been involved in a company or two, still involved in one or two, and have my eye on a venture or three, You simply can't write off everyone who doesn't share your views as an emotive imbecile.

That is all.

I don't doubt for a second that your an upstanding businessman working in a tough field, and that your far better at it then I would be.

[ukusa]

Isn't it hard for NZ resellers to compete with overseas markets due to duty, GST, other taxes, overheads etc? Plus how many people have been shit out of luck trying to return things to the states plus getting stung for the postage again and again?

get a good dealer & it's not a problem. Recently bought footpegs from Triumph dealer in the States, US$89.99 (NZ price $299.99!). They sent the wrong ones because their website had the wrong description, so I contacted, they said send back & we will reimburse postage & give me 10% of my next order for the inconvenience. So I added some more parts into the order & 10 days later I had all my new bits & pieces at a little over half local cost (including freight).

[Howie]

The perpetrator of this thread says he is not going to get into a slanging match and then launches into a toxic diatraibe of slanging.
Lets hear it from this person what he does for a living, what his position is and scutinise closely the industry he is in? Maybe hed also like to man up and divulge his name and address, if he has the courage to snipe away then he also has the courage to do that.

What relevance at all does what someone does for a living have to a thread about pricing of imported goods into New Zealand



I do not drink latte and I do not kick around anywhere in the world with people dressed in Gucci. My lifestyle is not lavish by any means and I work at least 70 hours every week, often more during the race season.. As do a lot of people who want to get ahead in NZ. Your point by stating this is?



We are ALL hypocrites. No need to elaborate for those that can think rationally and logically.
Yes, granted indeed there are pricing issues with many imported goods, many of them very extreme, unexplianable and unjustifiable.
Theres most likely a correlation between those who grizzle the most and those who least understand business and the minefield that is distribution in a small vulnerable country.

Maybe that’s why they are wise enough not to be involved in the Distribution Business in NZ, and choose to work in a different industry, Just so you know my only involvement with the Distribution Business is providing service to it.



That very small displaced economies are most affected by the open market is a given. Most businesses in NZ are very small and cannot do numbers. Business people have spouses and dependents as do their employess. Is it lost or conveniently ignored by those that grizzle loudest and longest that this is where these people earn a living so they can have three meals a day and a roof over their heads?

Your point from this being? Don't also your Customers, and potential Customers Have to earn a living, Provide for there family, and put a roof over there heads?



The more that is purchased overseas on the open market the weaker day by day that small NZ business becomes. Where do these people go? We cannot all live off the Government, who derive most of their tax base from ( you guessed it ) small business.

Is that your perception of where the majority of the Governments tax comes from, or have you done your homework and have the facts to back this statement up?



The long term prosperity of this country depends on the viability of small business and their ability to employ and pay decent wages for a decent days work. Heaven knows we should be more and more geared to export on the back of an exchange rate that is closer to about 55 cents US. We should also be according clearance charges and gst on literally everything that arrives into the country so that on that basis alone it helps to level the playing field a little.....and the Governments tax take would be increased enormously so that we can at least start to recover some ground after 9 wasted years of a diabolical Government..

I agree that the long term prosperity of this country depends on being able to increase the Average level of remuneration paid in this country, and getting it back to a competitive level with overseas countries. How to achieve that we would probably disagree on.

interestingly enough if I privately import goods over a certain value , I would receive a GST bill, which as a private import I can't pass on to any customer, so what is your point here.
Interesting statement about the exchange rate coming from someone who imports goods for a living, what would such a decrease in our exchange rate do the cost of your products?



Our products are very technical and we spend a lot of time dialing them to our specific road conditions that have a very high percentage of bumps etc. That is added value and I make no aplogy to being committed to offer such service.. And as someone else correctly intimated an overseas based ''spring rate calculator'' doesnt automatically make you a suspension technician. Point of fact many of these calcs are overly aggressive for our conditions. Everyting that is on the internet is ''correct''....yeah right. The faceless parasites that sell this stuff have no idea of our conditions, nor do they care.
If you end up with a spring sold to you by one of these companies and the selected rate is too soft or too firm its going to be a costly exercise to return it, more often than not. If you buy locally and the selected rate turns out to be not quite right( even after several weeks use to determine ) we exchange at no further cost excepting local freight recoveries. Similarly with internal shock valving as Pritch very kindly pointed out. In his case we in the first instance didnt want to second guess the standard valving spec, but when it proved to be a little harsh for our roads we were more than happy to put our hand up and optimise it for him at no extra cost. Pritch vwas a gentleman to deal with, we pre haggled a bit on price prior to building the shock and came to an agreement . There are more than a few people around who could learn a thing or two about old world manners.....
The reality is if you deal with me directly and afford common courtesy and decency I am happy to be flexible on price within sensible boundaries. But Im not going to go bust for anyone either. Seen that happen often.

It is good that you give the back up that you do, and am happy to hear it. That is the value added bit that can be good to have if you want and need it.
Some people however don’t want or need that back up. They may want a more competitive price with less back up, as maybe they don't have the extra to pay for backup that they may not need.
If you are providing a service to the top riders in the country both Racing, and Leisure then you have a very narrow market base. Unless I come into great quantities of Money I do not need the most expensive/Best quality? Suspension for the level of riding I do at the moment., it is on the would be nice to have list as I believe I can spend my budget on other products/ services for more return on the pleasure of my riding, or maybe even on riding, which is after all why I own a bike.




Now I must away, Im looking out at the panoramic seascape of activity from my waterfront mansion. The new leather armchairs are really comfy and I especially like the new solid oak sidetables that have just been delivered, they are the right height so that I dont have to strain unduly to reach my cocktails. I will be bored with this soon though and retire to the southerly end of the house that overlooks the 1000 acres of plains where I can witness herds of vildebeests majestically sweeping across the horizon. It also troubles me which vehicle Im going to drive to the bordello tonight, the Ferrari or the new Aston. I think Ill also phone ahead and get the girls to dress in full Nazi regalia, about 5 of them should do the trick.
The politics of envy is still very much alive, as is simplistic ignorance

I take this part as sarcasm, but what your lifestyle is or isn't, is of no interest to me as a potential customer, Just as what my lifestyle is should be of no interest to you as a supplier of goods/ service to me other than what I want to use your product for. What is of interest to me is the price, versus perceived quality/ service of the product you sell, and if I consider it value for money for what I want to achieve.

[Howie]

And then I forgot to mention another hot potato that reflects on business overheads and therefore balance sheets, ACC. Arguably employers for many years have borne a considerable amount of the burden of ACC and in fact have possibly got more reason to grizzle than motorcyclists.....?
When I was an employee back in 85 I had a big motorcycle accident at high speed that but for the grace of my protestant god I survived, coming out miraculously with only a broken wrist. Maybe as you say I am in a bubble.....I was paid at I think 80% of my then salary but in fact I was embarrassed that I was burdening the Government ( ie taxpayer ) I was not so incapacitated that I couldnt be useful so for the time that I was in plaster etc I went regularly to work to do what I could.
There has to be a balance and right now small business in NZ is suffering from not only the prevailing market forces but also a playing field that is anything but level. I have detailed those reasons in many
threads previously. I would rather see full employment here than everyone saving a few dollars by buying overseas.

ACC is a hot potato in a lot of ways, however Most Business's should probably be paying more in ACC levy’s than they currently are.

Would you prefer to spend time in court defending charges rightly or wrongly that your product was what caused the crash that caused a person to no longer be able to work. Because believe me if it goes to private insurance the insurance companies well be looking for ways to get money out of the perceived party at fault.

Unfortunately due to the NZ economy being a low wage one it means that those living on Average income's have to make some of their financial choices based on price.



Im in a similar situation to CKT in that everything I sell is imported from overseas.
Reality is anybody could do what I do and save themselves not just $100 but more likely $1000-$2000
And some people do just that.
But the question I ask is a line from an old clint eastwood movie--"Dya feel lucky punk? well dooya?"
Theres a bit more risk involved in buying/iomporting a car than a spring for sure.
But if the spring gets lost in transit. If its the wrong weight. if the exchange rate takes a dive youll end up outa pocket either a bit or a lot.
So I guess its a question of deciding the risk level you are comfortable with.

As much as VM suggests that it isn't the case there is value to having a "man on the ground" Again what value you place on that ability to make a phone call for advice is up to you.

That’s what being in a free market is all about isn't it freedom of choice. Insurance is available to be purchased for any goods being sent/ brought from overseas, again at a price so it's up to the person if they want it or not.


jesus guys think about it.It costs real dollars to run a retail business...real big dollars.The price a shop sells something for has to cover the runnings costs of said business.Fact of life.Its not rocket science.If you thinks its so easy open a shop yourself and sell your parts to be competitive withthe mail order warehouses.How will you pay your staff,rent.telephone and power?Its costs thousands every month before you even stock the shelves and open the doors .

I don't disagree with what your saying, however it takes real money to set up any Business, how to do so, and remain competive is part of the challenge of being in business, like it or not the internet has opened up door's to allow private individual's to investigate other choice's of sourcing goods cheaply and efficently. How Retail, and wholesale Businesses in New Zealand deal with that well see some survive and thrive, and others fail, but then isn't that what being in Business is all about.

As to exclusive Distribution rights for a country, that is between the agents for a country and a manufacture to negotiate. There are ways around it though.
1. Use a local person in the country of origin that you trust.
2. Find a wholesaler/ Internet supply company that deals in the product at a competitive price that well sell to you. I have priced a new part for one of my bikes on the net, and could get it cheaper through a Internet wholesaler, than I can from the manufacturer. ( as far as I can tell there is no importer of the product in NZ, or any local alternative.
3. Look for an alternative product, that you think well provide the quality/ service you want at a price you can accept.

[Viscount Montgomery]

Taylor, you're just far too big for your boots mister. $299 for a spring, stuff that, I'm gonna sneak down to the local rat infested car-wreckers, throw the dobermans a couple of sea slugs and find an old car spring. Won't have to worry about rider sag anymore. Don't want any dorky lectures about it either.

[Shaun]

I am never buying anything ever again from any one any where. You are all making to much money

[Viscount Montgomery]

Well, in about 9 months time, during the last weeks of desperate, frantic closing-down fire sales, just before the liquidators come stomping through with their sledgehammers, for lease signs and removal vans, I'll be around to score the proper spring for a realistic price.

Looking forward to the day. Hoping you fellas will have one of your famous lattes, piping hot, waiting for me.

Good luck in your new endeavors. Taylor would be best suited to putting his efforts into running for parliament, he'll fit in well there

[SS90]

It seems this subject come up time and time again, what's the mark up on Beer, Coffee etc, bloody massive.

yea sure $299 for a spring is some good money, but as has been pointed out time and time again, you are paying for the service AND the product, buy from the net, and you only pay for the product.

What is so hard to understand?

It is presumptious of me to say this, but I am pretty confident that road based motorcycle stuff is not the biggest portion of CKT's bottom line, at a guess it would be off road stuff (I may be commenting outside my pay grade here), and just like the tiddly little margins a bike shop has in tyres, we can just be thankful they do it!

[Big Dave]

If you read Montgomery like Rick from 'The Young Ones' it's very good.

[Robert Taylor]

Taylor, you're just far too big for your boots mister. $299 for a spring, stuff that, I'm gonna sneak down to the local rat infested car-wreckers, throw the dobermans a couple of sea slugs and find an old car spring. Won't have to worry about rider sag anymore. Don't want any dorky lectures about it either.

Maybe, but at least everyone knows who I am and that Im prepared to stand up and be counted.

[Kickaha]

Maybe, but at least everyone knows who I am and that Im prepared to stand up and be counted.

Rather than do that I thought you'd be sitting down counting all your cash

[Robert Taylor]

I am never buying anything ever again from any one any where. You are all making to much money

Thats correct Shaun, any profit is evil. And anyone that sticks their head above the parapet deserves to have it shot off, theres no place for it!
Thanks for the support from those who understand what a minefield it is being in distribution and service.

[Robert Taylor]

Rather than do that I thought you'd be sitting down counting all your cash

Ive got a spare swimming pool for it and it has a diving board. Thats sarcasm and its funny.

[Kickaha]

Taylor would be best suited to putting his efforts into running for parliament, he'll fit in well there

Robert for Prime Minister:clap:

[Robert Taylor]

Robert for Prime Minister:clap:

No, dictator and Id model myself on Augusto Pinochet, thered be a bit of ''cleansing'' happening.
Subsidies for sidecar racers.

[Owl]

Robert for Prime Minister:clap:

No, he'd take measures to even the playing field. That'd hardly be fair, right?:whistle:

[SixPackBack]

It seems this subject come up time and time again, what's the mark up on Beer, Coffee etc, bloody massive.

yea sure $299 for a spring is some good money, but as has been pointed out time and time again, you are paying for the service AND the product, buy from the net, and you only pay for the product.

What is so hard to understand?

It is presumptious of me to say this, but I am pretty confident that road based motorcycle stuff is not the biggest portion of CKT's bottom line, at a guess it would be off road stuff (I may be commenting outside my pay grade here), and just like the tiddly little margins a bike shop has in tyres, we can just be thankful they do it!


I would hazard a guess that by now a good number of KB folk are planning to buy Racetech/Ohlins through the net and potentially save themselves thousands on import duties, and if the need comes up for fine tuning [spring, valving etc] calling CKT for some back-up.
What do you say Robert? will we get full support on product we have bought over the inter-web?

[Fatjim]

I would have agreed with the original thread, but he picked on one of probably a few NZ retailers that do offer great after sales service, on a product that actually needs it.

I've bought plenty of kit from over seas. But only on product where I'm either happy to take the risk of not being able to return it, or one where there is little or no risk of having to.

Soon after Uncle B died I needed to replace my helmet. I wanted a Norick as he did, but in tan. Talked to the local. 3 months and $1300! 3 months!!!!!!!!! I had it ex Japan in 3 days for <$800. 3 days!!!!!!!!! I can't see a single reason why I would have waited the 3 months.

[SS90]

I would hazard a guess that by now a good number of KB folk are planning to buy Racetech/Ohlins through the net and potentially save themselves thousands on import duties, and if the need comes up for fine tuning [spring, valving etc] calling CKT for some back-up.
What do you say Robert? will we get full support on product we have bought over the inter-web?


What a strange statement to make.

You have missed the point entirely.

Why the hell should CKT give any free advise/support to people who have imported their own shocks?

It's akin to bringing your own beer into a pub, (because it's cheaper) then calling the publican a wanker when he your ass out. Totally ignoring the fact that the publican has to pay tax,rent,staff,advertising,music,etc.

[Kickaha]

No, dictator and Id model myself on Augusto Pinochet,

I would have picked Papa Doc my self
.

Subsidies for sidecar racers.

The cheque is in the mail



What do you say Robert? will we get full support on product we have bought over the inter-web?


I thought he'd already said he would work on it but you'd pay full rate for labour?

[Robert Taylor]

I would hazard a guess that by now a good number of KB folk are planning to buy Racetech/Ohlins through the net and potentially save themselves thousands on import duties, and if the need comes up for fine tuning [spring, valving etc] calling CKT for some back-up.
What do you say Robert? will we get full support on product we have bought over the inter-web?


We do not turn anyone away. Those that purchase off us get support, those that dont buy off us get the same level of support but they pay the going rate. That is fair and reasonable.

There has been a lot of emotional claptrap on this thread. As for CKT the reality is we do deals, package deals etc and provide a high level of backup. If a customer is unhappy we dont walk away.

Im also not afraid to walk away from an argument, no matter how unpalatable it may be to the opposing viewpoint. There are always two sides to every story and I have acknowledged that several times through this thread.

I make no aplogy for being concerned about the right for everyone in NZ to be gainfully employed and paid reasonable wages and that it should be above self interest. Yes I have stated that the exchange rate should more favour exporters (who in turn are employers ), which in turn is less favourable for importing, at any level. So be it.

[scumdog]

I'm not here to get into slanging matches with people on a personal level...... And we all thought that Levin, Balclutha and Devonport held the largest combined population of deranged people in this country...

What's with the 'WE ALL thought', paleface?:Pokey:
And have you lived in those places mentioned?:wait:
And how come 'well south of jaffaland' is so much better than the places you mentioned?:corn:

[pc220]

Well this tread has turned into another shitfest. My take is, If I had the $$$ I would happily pay the extra to gain the services of CKT. Sad fact is I cannot afford this option at this time.I am not willing to try and get a deal out Of Robert that would be more costly (to him)than not not getting my business at all.Therefore I am looking at interwebby options for hopefully a resonable product but without the local backup.I know its a risk but I just cant spend what I dont have.A business like CKT would seem to be a real asset to the motorcyle community and should be supported whenever possible.

[CHOPPA]

I couldnt afford to not get my suspension off CKT, I have only ever purchased 1 new set of suspension from them when i sold that bike RT found a buyer for my old stuff. I brought a new bike with the good gear already installed and in the last 2 years RT and Dennis have revalved and resprung my suspension more times then i can remember! The only time i have ever had to pay for any additional service is when i have had to get a new spec that they are constantly developing into my suspension.

Its probably pointless telling some people of the benefits of using CKT and maybe paying a little extra initially but what i have saved in the form of tyres and servicing costs is far more then the amount id save importing my own.

[Robert Taylor]

Well this tread has turned into another shitfest. My take is, If I had the $$$ I would happily pay the extra to gain the services of CKT. Sad fact is I cannot afford this option at this time.I am not willing to try and get a deal out Of Robert that would be more costly (to him)than not not getting my business at all.Therefore I am looking at interwebby options for hopefully a resonable product but without the local backup.I know its a risk but I just cant spend what I dont have.A business like CKT would seem to be a real asset to the motorcyle community and should be supported whenever possible.

I will send you a price quote once I have sussed out spring dimensions etc.

[retro asian]

Buying stuff out of the US is not always as great as it first looks... unless you are over there and can carry stuff back in your suitcase.
Freight out of the US is very expensive, and there is GST and also clearance to pay if you are bringing in something of high value.

That said, you can still save money on getting certain parts in yourself.
I'm saving for a full suspension upgrade, and I'm going to go to CKT. If I'm paying an extra 10% to get a better job done, then that's money well spent IMO.

[SixPackBack]

What a strange statement to make.

You have missed the point entirely.

Why the hell should CKT give any free advise/support to people who have imported their own shocks?

It's akin to bringing your own beer into a pub, (because it's cheaper) then calling the publican a wanker when he your ass out. Totally ignoring the fact that the publican has to pay tax,rent,staff,advertising,music,etc.

Whats strange about it?..........The way I see it you have a win-win situation. The punter gets to purchase product at a far cheaper rate by circumventing import duty [hopefully], and CKT gets to charge full labour rate on any follow up tuning work. If everyone was following the same path inventory could be reduced

If Racetech/Ohlins gave CKT the level of discount large American distributors gain much of the arguing would be circumvented. This line of reasoning has been halted in this thread, Robert seems unwilling to discuss further citing 'commercial sensitivity' [post #40]. If this is correct [and as previously stated] a degree of blame goes back onto Racetech/Ohlins for prostituting the local market [aka CKT]; consequently neither the NZ biking public, nor CKT should be getting to misty eyed about Racetech/Ohlins. They are ripping the NZ public off and letting CKT take all the blame.

[SS90]

Whats strange about it?..........The way I see it you have a win-win situation. The punter gets to purchase product at a far cheaper rate by circumventing import duty [hopefully], and CKT gets to charge full labour rate on any follow up tuning work. If everyone was following the same path inventory could be reduced

If Racetech/Ohlins gave CKT the level of discount large American distributors gain much of the arguing would be circumvented. This line of reasoning has been halted in this thread, Robert seems unwilling to discuss further citing 'commercial sensitivity' [post #40]. If this is correct [and as previously stated] a degree of blame goes back onto Racetech/Ohlins for prostituting the local market [aka CKT]; consequently neither the NZ biking public, nor CKT should be getting to misty eyed about Racetech/Ohlins. They are ripping the NZ public off and letting CKT take all the blame.


O.K, I see your point.

Just to play devils advocate (not just being argumentitive) the "down side" of the reduced stock inventory is, just that, a reduced stock inventory.

No longer will there be good levels of stock, that means the customer does not have to wait for it to be ordered, and can have their suspension back quickly, instead, they will have to be back ordered (or, alternatively the customer orders the (wrong) part from overseas (etc).

But, the end price will be the same (or even more) than now.

Instead of paying a (some would say premium) price for a "full service" concept, the team at CKT will just become a shock workshop, where you bring your shock (that you got from the web) to him, and you PAY them to work out what springs (you have to order), and the oil etc..... Normally this service is included (not free, included, that is the difference) in the price when you buy from CKT (well, that's how I see it)

If this scenario played out in reality, I am sure that you will pay substantually more for your suspension than if you simply purchased it from them in the first place!

To me, it is a "complete Öhlins service" (my keyboard has umlouts ;-)), opposed to "selling suspension"

Again, that is my perception.

[Robert Taylor]

Whats strange about it?..........The way I see it you have a win-win situation. The punter gets to purchase product at a far cheaper rate by circumventing import duty [hopefully], and CKT gets to charge full labour rate on any follow up tuning work. If everyone was following the same path inventory could be reduced

If Racetech/Ohlins gave CKT the level of discount large American distributors gain much of the arguing would be circumvented. This line of reasoning has been halted in this thread, Robert seems unwilling to discuss further citing 'commercial sensitivity' [post #40]. If this is correct [and as previously stated] a degree of blame goes back onto Racetech/Ohlins for prostituting the local market [aka CKT]; consequently neither the NZ biking public, nor CKT should be getting to misty eyed about Racetech/Ohlins. They are ripping the NZ public off and letting CKT take all the blame.
Thats part of my point, why should a private buyer get away without paying clearance fees and then gst on everything, compared to a business with a huge investment that pays full commercial rates and acc levies, this and that etc? Thats part of the equation of it not being a level playing field. And then theres the fraudulent underwriting of invoices, quite brazenly bragged about on this forum at times. This is one area of taxation that the Government is missing out on big time.
With respect to some of your last sentences yes there are grains of reality, and this is typical of a lot of goods.

[Headbanger]

Thats part of my point, why should a private buyer get away without paying clearance fees and then gst on everything, compared to a business with a huge investment that pays full commercial rates and acc levies, this and that etc?

Because we can, there is no need to justify it, its up to the market to adjust to the new reality.

Hell, when I quote a customer 80 grand for some work then its up to them to decide if they want to pay us that for the work, get more quotes, look into hiring just the gear and doing it themselves or consider alternatives to gettin the work done. If the market has moved and we are pricing too high then we either adjust or die.

I don't think they owe us our profit because I have kids to feed, or that the governments role is to step in and protect my business model.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Soon after Uncle B died I needed to replace my helmet. I wanted a Norick as he did, but in tan. Talked to the local. 3 months and $1300! 3 months!!!!!!!!! I had it ex Japan in 3 days for <$800. 3 days!!!!!!!!! I can't see a single reason why I would have waited the 3 months.

Lucky you have an 'Asian' shaped head then.

[gixerracer]

I heard he is joining the labour party
Well, in about 9 months time, during the last weeks of desperate, frantic closing-down fire sales, just before the liquidators come stomping through with their sledgehammers, for lease signs and removal vans, I'll be around to score the proper spring for a realistic price.

Looking forward to the day. Hoping you fellas will have one of your famous lattes, piping hot, waiting for me.

Good luck in your new endeavors. Taylor would be best suited to putting his efforts into running for parliament, he'll fit in well there

[quickbuck]

Its probably pointless telling some people of the benefits of using CKT and maybe paying a little extra initially but what i have saved in the form of tyres and servicing costs is far more then the amount id save importing my own.
Ain't that the truth.... Mr Montgomery doesn't understand that the $150 you "Saved" can be toasted within a couple of minutes if you mess up the settings....
Not rocket science, but it is more than 'It's Just a Motor Bike"

[Robert Taylor]

I heard he is joining the labour party

Not even when hell freezes over!!!!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Because we can, there is no need to justify it, its up to the market to adjust to the new reality.

Hell, when I quote a customer 80 grand for some work then its up to them to decide if they want to pay us that for the work, get more quotes, look into hiring just the gear and doing it themselves or consider alternatives to gettin the work done. If the market has moved and we are pricing too high then we either adjust or die.

I don't think they owe us our profit because I have kids to feed, or that the governments role is to step in and protect my business model.

Not a good answer and you know it. If a business has to pay full clearance charges and gst for the products it imports then why should it be any different for a private individual?
In that respect the current environment helps to undermine the viability of being in business.
I and many other businesses dont ask for help from the Government, we only ask for an importation regime that doesnt effectively penalise business by ''rewarding'' one off importers with too often a blind eye on applying taxes, exacerbated by all the falsification of invoices that occurs.

[Robert Taylor]

Irrespective of all the arguments, all the emotion and valid points raised on both sides of the fence we like many other businesses that are very service related meet the market as much as possible, and within sensible boundaries.
If you find a better price overseas talk to me personally or e-mail me and we will see what we can do as a package. We in fact do this all the time and we fully back up every product / service we sell.
Maybe I dont suffer fools too readily but if people are straight with me its reciprocated in full, cannot be more reasonable than that.

[Headbanger]

Not a good answer and you know it. If a business has to pay full clearance charges and gst for the products it imports then why should it be any different for a private individual? .

Its a great answer, You just can't get your head around the fact as an individual I care what I spend and not how much you make, and I can choose where I spend my money based on my criteria.

Thats your bubble. The reality you are in denial about. You think its not fair that someone has avenues to purchase that don't fit your business model.

The point of my post was to illustrate that just like yourself the company I work for has to cover the cost of running the business (and this is in the millions) as well as doing the work on the day, and that an individual can take on teh work himself and bypass all the compliance costs and overheads.

[jellywrestler]

OK mr headbanger, things are getting personal here; why don't we all keep on dicussing this without a particular company/brand/product being singled out.

The scenario is Mr Smith is going out and needs a little bit of methamphetamine to help him along for the night. A Guy on the street corner has it for $400 a gram but you can go into a chemist in Bangkok and buy what you need to make this stuff for the equivalent of a couple of NZ dollars, work at it a bit and get it to Mr Smith place for much less than the $400.

Now Mr Headbanger how about we discuss the ins and outs of this?

[Robert Taylor]

OK mr headbanger, things are getting personal here; why don't we all keep on dicussing this without a particular company/brand/product being singled out.
The scenario is Mr Headbanger is going out and needs a little bit of methamphetamine to help him along for the night. A Guy on the street corner has it for $400 a gram but you can go into a chemist in Bangkok and buy what you need to make this stuff for the equivalent of a couple of NZ dollars, work at it a bit and get it to Mr Headbangers place for much less than the $400.
Now Mr Headbanger how about we discuss the ins and outs of this?

Jeez, you never fail to draw a giggle or two!

[Robert Taylor]

Its a great answer, You just can't get your head around the fact as an individual I care what I spend and not how much you make, and I can choose where I spend my money based on my criteria.

Thats your bubble. The reality you are in denial about. You think its not fair that someone has avenues to purchase that don't fit your business model.

The point of my post was to illustrate that just like yourself the company I work for has to cover the cost of running the business (and this is in the millions) as well as doing the work on the day, and that an individual can take on teh work himself and bypass all the compliance costs and overheads.
We have to agree to disagree then. But I think if you conducted a straw poll of most NZ businesses that sell imported goods there would be an overwhelming opinion that the application of tax on privately imported goods is far too laxadasical, and that they feel singled out on this.
Individuals can choose to purchase wherever they want, that is a reality. I have no problem with that and always strive within sensible boundaries to get the deal, and then back it up.
But I bet also that there is some sort of correlation between the situation that prevails and people being laid off. It might be hard to quantify but it would be a reality. I like to think that when Im spending money the business is making a fair and reasonable profit and in turn they are able to pay their employees a fair and reasonable wage.
I always remember a farmer that I was talking telling me about a contract he entered into to get new milking machines installed. He brazenly told me that he had screwed the company down to the last possible cent and that the salesman was almost crying as there was virtually no margin left. He thought it was a huge joke but I was disgusted and asked him if he treated everybody like this. Miserable penny pinching prick, sadly there are many people like this, albeit this is an extreme example.

[Robert Taylor]

Heres an interesting point and I kind of eluded to it in a previous post,

With the pressure that is placed on accredited distributors from overseas resellers ( most particularly in the USA ) should a number of distributors consider going direct and eliminate the traditional wholesale / retail etiquette?

Note that this subject matter is not confined to NZ, it also affects Australia, Canada and a number of European countries. Bulk buying discounts, high volume sales, very low margins and a strong kiwi dollar against $US all conspire to create such a situation.

The very first negative by-product is that if all sales ( for in this example suspension ) are direct it completely cuts out the handful of dealers who would otherwise be proactive, as there would be no margin for them. And you cannot just scoot up to any motorcycle shop for suspension help as frankly the training institutions for motorcycle mechanics offers little more than when I was an apprentice back in the 70s. Its as rudimentary as it was then. That is not to say that there are some great mecahanics with good suspension set up knowledge dotted around the country in various shops, but thats because of their own motivation and interest.

Theres a lot more to this that I could elaborate on, but its enough to raise a discussion....

[Headbanger]

OK mr headbanger, things are getting personal here; why don't we all keep on dicussing this without a particular company/brand/product being singled out.
The scenario is Mr Headbanger is going out and needs a little bit of methamphetamine to help him along for the night. A Guy on the street corner has it for $400 a gram but you can go into a chemist in Bangkok and buy what you need to make this stuff for the equivalent of a couple of NZ dollars, work at it a bit and get it to Mr Headbangers place for much less than the $400.
Now Mr Headbanger how about we discuss the ins and outs of this?

Only niggers and filth discuss that crap, I'll leave it up to you.

[Headbanger]

We have to agree to disagree then.

Indeed.

Though I knew we would. :D

[jellywrestler]

Only niggers and filth discuss that crap, I'll leave it up to you.
I'm sorry Mr Headbanger, I'm not racist, I've got a colour telly and a Black cat so how can I be? but I see you're not happy with that sort of scenario, lets change it to party pills then if it makes you happy, you sound like you could be a party pill man, or at least someone who while no'ones looking whips an Enos tablet into his Berroca just to get that extra shot.-----The point remains you've singled out a particular product yet this really is about many products available in New Zealand from a supplier yet able to be purchased off the interweb for much less, do you have it in for this supplier or what?

[scumdog]

Only niggers and filth discuss that crap, I'll leave it up to you.


So which are you???

[Headbanger]

So which are you???

I fall outside that spectrum, Hence my inability to talk P deals.

Which one are you?

[Headbanger]

I'm sorry Mr Headbanger, I'm not racist, I've got a colour telly and a Black cat so how can I be? but I see you're not happy with that sort of scenario, lets change it to party pills then if it makes you happy, you sound like you could be a party pill man, or at least someone who while no'ones looking whips an Enos tablet into his Berroca just to get that extra shot.-----The point remains you've singled out a particular product yet this really is about many products available in New Zealand from a supplier yet able to be purchased off the interweb for much less, do you have it in for this supplier or what?

Cool, You can read, Its your comprehension that is lacking, Mr Roberts himself inserted his company into the discussion as an example alongside his personal and professional views.

And your tugging your fat one if you think I'm going to get into a dumbfuck convo as presented by your posts.

[gatch]

Wowee what a read.

Viscount is clearly an accountant, robert taylor is a cunt, and the general public is having every last dollar squeezed out of them by profit driven supply/service tycoons.

I'm now going to grow a beard and live with the amish.

Goodbye.

[Headbanger]

I'm going to change my user name then ask Mr Taylor for some tips regarding the suspension on my Speed Triple.....


Muhahahahahahahaha

[Robert Taylor]

No need to change your name, you may have a differing opinion but that is not reason enough for me to do anything other than give you good advice.

[thepom]

Don,t bother as I tried but no joy,here,s a copy of the e mail he sent me on an overhaul of a rear shock for my blackbird and the reply from a guy in the UK I have bought all my bird stuff from,

Hello again Kenny and apologies for the delayed reply.



Having now researched it all further the rear shock on that bike is a nasty one to rebuild. The internal gas dividing piston is non removable as there is a restrictor base plate just above it that is peened in position through the side of the shock body. Whilst we can drill the bottom of the shock to install a gas charge nipple we cannot pull it completely apart to make sure that all drilling and tapping swarf is removed, nor can we check the integrity of the o ring and guiding piston ring on the floating gas piston. So its too risky and unless we have 100% confidence in the integrity of that area we would prefer to walk away from the job. You may find someone that is willing to do that but its not what I would call an acceptable and safe job, especially on a bike that can attain high speeds / loadings.



There is an Ohlins shock listing for that bike. It is a hose reservoir type with independent rebound and compression adjustment and a hydraulic spring preload adjuster ( due otherwise to access issues to adjust spring preload on that bike ) $2299.90 rec retail incl of gst. That’s a solid whack of money but there are many positive advantages as follows;



1) It is not once only dead money as Ohlins shocks have great residual value, if later on you change to a different bike there are 3 options: a) the shock can be respec’d to suit the new bike as they are very modular b) if there are too many parts involved we trade used Ohlins for new or c) they are in high demand secondhand if you wish to onsell privately



2) We always ensure that the shock is delivered personalized in spring rate and settings ( internally if necessary ) to your personal stats, most typical loading scenarios and application at no extra cost. This is VERY important and were you to purchase this shock offshore you get none of that nor are offshore sellers familiar with our often atrocious road conditions



3) Should the delivered spring rate not be entirely to your preference ( everyone has a different perception of what they want ) we exchange the spring at no further cost. Local service, local backup. No one else in NZ offers any of these 3 points.



4) Aside from all the above there are the benefits that only become abundantly apparent once you ride with this suspension i.e much much improved ride compliance but also much better ride height control, more mechanical grip and improved tyre life. More response to external adjustments and fully rebuildable ( 40000 ks on )



I suggest you call in and see our Christchurch / South Island agent, Peter Fenton at Triple R Superbike on St Asaph St. This is not a shock we regularly stock but we normally have at least one shipment every month. Our next shipment likely leaves Sweden late next week and arrives about 12 days thereafter. If you wish to place an order please let us / Peter know no later than Tuesday next week and we can likely have included.



Please also don’t hesitate to come back to us with any further questions

And here,s the reply from the Uk guy....

Errrr.. I think you need to find another suspension guy.. They are actually very easy to work on and being based on an upmarket unit once the issues are sorted out great shocks !

Needless to say I bought elsewhere......but business is business so no hard feeling,s....I know it,s hard to make a living here in Godsown
and we are on a Island a long way from anywhere so our location dictates prices.....





Kind regards,



Robert Taylor

[Owl]

I'm going to change my user name then ask Mr Taylor for some tips regarding the suspension on my Speed Triple.....


Muhahahahahahahaha

That's easy, it's crap!:laugh:

[dipshit]

should a number of distributors consider going direct and eliminate the traditional wholesale / retail etiquette?

Hell yes!

Having been involved with bikes in the mid-80s to early 90s and even worked in a motorcycle shop for some time... then getting back into bikes 3 years ago... it seems the motorcycle industry in NZ has barely changed at all since back then! Motorcycle shops still seem stuck in the 80s with its out of touch, heavy reliance on distributors and "the system" horse shit. Motorcycle shops only seem to push and supply whatever their distributors happen to carry. However there is another whole world out there with goodies that your average NZ bike shop hasn't got the foggiest about. (Their distributor doesn't carry it :brick: )

Today's world is a lot smaller than it was in the 80s. The old boys network of manufacturer - exporter - importer - wholesaler - distributor - then retailer is fast becoming a thing of the past.

Many many smaller manufacturers are now selling directly to the end consumer thanks to the internet and those big jet planes in the sky. About half of my accessories lately have been brought straight from the manufacturer. Waterproof over gloves, radiator guards, bodywork protection, radar detector mounts etc etc. The silly old boys network of half a dozen other people getting a cut is unnecessary.



The very first negative by-product is that if all sales ( for in this example suspension ) are direct it completely cuts out the handful of dealers who would otherwise be proactive,

It you have a skill or point of difference to offer then market that skill or advantage! If consumers think your skill is worth paying for then they will happily pay for it!

Look at Dave Moss for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfiQSp4CRBg&feature=channel

He sets up his tent at the tracks and charges for his suspension help. There appears to be usually a line of bikes waiting for his service. Why give it away for free then complain about putting food on the table..?


And if you can source components much more cheaply than through "official" channels... then why not? Ohlins weren't doing you any favours when they sold at much cheaper prices to big US retailers.

[Robert Taylor]

Don,t bother as I tried but no joy,here,s a copy of the e mail he sent me on an overhaul of a rear shock for my blackbird and the reply from a guy in the UK I have bought all my bird stuff from,

Hello again Kenny and apologies for the delayed reply.

Having now researched it all further the rear shock on that bike is a nasty one to rebuild. The internal gas dividing piston is non removable as there is a restrictor base plate just above it that is peened in position through the side of the shock body. Whilst we can drill the bottom of the shock to install a gas charge nipple we cannot pull it completely apart to make sure that all drilling and tapping swarf is removed, nor can we check the integrity of the o ring and guiding piston ring on the floating gas piston. So its too risky and unless we have 100% confidence in the integrity of that area we would prefer to walk away from the job. You may find someone that is willing to do that but its not what I would call an acceptable and safe job, especially on a bike that can attain high speeds / loadings.



There is an Ohlins shock listing for that bike. It is a hose reservoir type with independent rebound and compression adjustment and a hydraulic spring preload adjuster ( due otherwise to access issues to adjust spring preload on that bike ) $2299.90 rec retail incl of gst. That’s a solid whack of money but there are many positive advantages as follows;



1) It is not once only dead money as Ohlins shocks have great residual value, if later on you change to a different bike there are 3 options: a) the shock can be respec’d to suit the new bike as they are very modular b) if there are too many parts involved we trade used Ohlins for new or c) they are in high demand secondhand if you wish to onsell privately



2) We always ensure that the shock is delivered personalized in spring rate and settings ( internally if necessary ) to your personal stats, most typical loading scenarios and application at no extra cost. This is VERY important and were you to purchase this shock offshore you get none of that nor are offshore sellers familiar with our often atrocious road conditions



3) Should the delivered spring rate not be entirely to your preference ( everyone has a different perception of what they want ) we exchange the spring at no further cost. Local service, local backup. No one else in NZ offers any of these 3 points.



4) Aside from all the above there are the benefits that only become abundantly apparent once you ride with this suspension i.e much much improved ride compliance but also much better ride height control, more mechanical grip and improved tyre life. More response to external adjustments and fully rebuildable ( 40000 ks on )



I suggest you call in and see our Christchurch / South Island agent, Peter Fenton at Triple R Superbike on St Asaph St. This is not a shock we regularly stock but we normally have at least one shipment every month. Our next shipment likely leaves Sweden late next week and arrives about 12 days thereafter. If you wish to place an order please let us / Peter know no later than Tuesday next week and we can likely have included.



Please also don’t hesitate to come back to us with any further questions

And here,s the reply from the Uk guy....

Errrr.. I think you need to find another suspension guy.. They are actually very easy to work on and being based on an upmarket unit once the issues are sorted out great shocks !

Needless to say I bought elsewhere......but business is business so no hard feeling,s....I know it,s hard to make a living here in Godsown
and we are on a Island a long way from anywhere so our location dictates prices.....





Kind regards,



Robert Taylor

Ok, youve published on an open forum an e-mail communication document that was between you and me, thats bad form dont you think? If it were commercially sensitive Id have every reason to seek legal redress and Id win hands down. But in another way I thank you as it illustrates the trouble that I often go to.

Given the remarkable lack of detail from the guy in the UK your argument is thin, given the gas piston design in this the considerable detail I went into to explain this all to you stacks up. At this point I can only surmise that the guy in the UK is willing to take such a risk. It may also be that there is a slightly different specification in the UK, but many of the Honda / Showa shocks have this nasty encapsulated baseplate and gas piston design in them, I should know as Ive seen more than a few over the years.

[Robert Taylor]

Hell yes!

Having been involved with bikes in the mid-80s to early 90s and even worked in a motorcycle shop for some time... then getting back into bikes 3 years ago... it seems the motorcycle industry in NZ has barely changed at all since back then! Motorcycle shops still seems stuck in the 80s with it's out of touch, heavy reliance on distributors and "the system" horse shit. Motorcycle shops only seem to push and supply whatever their distributors happen to carry. However there is another whole world out there with goodies that your average NZ bike shop hasn't got the foggiest about. (Their distributor doesn't carry it :brick: )

Today's world is a lot smaller than it was in the 80s. The old boys network of manufacturer - exporter - importer - wholesaler - distributor - then retailer is fast becoming a thing of the past.

Many many smaller manufacturers are now selling directly to the end consumer thanks to the internet and those big jet planes in the sky. About half of my accessories lately have been brought straight from the manufacturer. Waterproof over gloves, radiator guards, bodywork protection, radar detect mounts etc etc. The silly old boys network of half a dozen other people getting a cut is unnecessary.




It you have a skill or point of difference to offer then market that skill or advantage! If consumers think your skill is worth paying for then they will happily pay for it!

Look at Dave Moss for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfiQSp4CRBg&feature=channel

He sets up his tent at the tracks and charges for his suspension help. There appears to be usually a line of bikes waiting for his service. Why give it away for free then complain about putting food on the table..?


And if you can source components much more cheaply than through "official" channels... then why not? Ohlins weren't doing you any favours when they sold at much cheaper prices to big US retailers.

Thanks for your perspective

[dipshit]

The very first negative by-product is that if all sales ( for in this example suspension ) are direct it completely cuts out the handful of dealers who would otherwise be proactive,

Oh, and as far as some dealers going down the toilet... who cares.

Half of the bike mechanics down this way are next to useless anyhow... so no great loss. A GOOD mechanic will always be in demand. Look at the recommendations "George at Motorcycle Doctors" keeps getting in threads like this... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/118487-Auckland-mechanic-recommendations He will probably do all right for himself even without selling accessories. Like any successful business - concentrate on what you are good at.

There will always be a demand for good mechanics and a supply of tyres and jackets and gloves etc (as people prefer to try gear on rather than purchasing over the internet) There will be a market for this in NZ as long as there are bikes on the road. Even if it means there are a few less dealers around filling those needs. Hopefully you will be left with the good guys and we just lose some of the dead wood.

[boomer]

Thanks for your perspective


Funny thing is Robert, he's right.

[Howie]

Heres an interesting point and I kind of eluded to it in a previous post,

With the pressure that is placed on accredited distributors from overseas resellers ( most particularly in the USA ) should a number of distributors consider going direct and eliminate the traditional wholesale / retail etiquette?

Note that this subject matter is not confined to NZ, it also affects Australia, Canada and a number of European countries. Bulk buying discounts, high volume sales, very low margins and a strong kiwi dollar against $US all conspire to create such a situation.

The very first negative by-product is that if all sales ( for in this example suspension ) are direct it completely cuts out the handful of dealers who would otherwise be proactive, as there would be no margin for them. And you cannot just scoot up to any motorcycle shop for suspension help as frankly the training institutions for motorcycle mechanics offers little more than when I was an apprentice back in the 70s. Its as rudimentary as it was then. That is not to say that there are some great mecahanics with good suspension set up knowledge dotted around the country in various shops, but thats because of their own motivation and interest.




The answer to this question lies within the Businesses concerned and is not Motorcycle product exclusive. If consumers are looking elsewhere to locate the goods/services they want be it due to supply(time for delivery), or price issues, and it is affecting a local/ or your Businesses bottom line. Then the Business model being used by the local business is not one that well succeed, so a smart Business operator would look at what he can change to remain competitive in a changing market place and retain or grow his market share.

I agree with your comments about technical training in NZ, but again is not purely a Motorcycle industry problem, and what is the answer. The training costs money and where does that money for training come from either from the people being trained or the industry concerned. What would your answer be to the lack of on going technical traing in New zealand be? A levy on employers? or making Apprentices/Trainnes take on more debt? or maybe regular on going upskilling courses to keep up with new technology? That of course leaves the issue of keeping up with the tooling to do the job as well.

As a side note from what I read here(if the interweb is to be believed) you provide an excellent service at a premium price at the top end of the market, but is that what Joe average wants for example if I have $5000 to spend on capital upgrades to my 5 year old ZXGSXCBYF600 track day/club race bike, and spend it all on your products I might gain a great suspension system, but the rest of the bike is lacking. Where as if I spend $2400 on a different Suspension system that gives me 80-90% of the benefit of yours, it leaves me another $2600 to spend on maybe a race exhaust and power commander/ or maybe some carbon fibre body work. Now which option is going to give me as a weekend warrior the best bang for buck within my budget.

[jellywrestler]

.



nipple




Hehehe, he said nipple...

[dipshit]

As a side note from what I read here(if the interweb is to be believed) you provide an excellent service at a premium price at the top end of the market, but is that what Joe average wants for example if I have $5000 to spend on capital upgrades to my 5 year...

RT does offer a whole range of suspension services to suit any budget.

I do believe that no matter what your budget is... you will get the best bang for your buck (no matter how much it is) if spent with a specialist. That's the whole point.

[Howie]

RT does offer a whole range of suspension services to suit any budget.

I do believe that no matter what your budget is... you will get the best bang for your buck (no matter how much it is) if spent with a specialist. That's the whole point.



Yep specialist advice can be very good for technical areas of any product/process. However as has been pointed out before not everyone wants to pay the premium for that advice. If after doing my own research by reading books, talking to people who own/use the same product I come up with the idea that I need say new springs in my forks at XX rating then I want to source them at the best price I can. Not pay a premium for something that is likely to not need any on going servicing, or maintenance costs for the rest of it's serviceable life. Of course that means I am taking on the responsibility that I have made the right rating choice for what I want the product to do, and have no means to redress that should they be wrong other than purchase some different ones. Then try to on sell the ones that were wrong. Which of course the interweb makes easier to do these days. It all comes down to freedom of choice, and some well choose to spend money for value added advice and support, others well choose to go the way of doing their own research and saving $$ to spend elsewhere, where you fit in that area is upto you. I know riders who get all their servicing/ maintenance including oil changes completed by bike shops, and I also know riders who do all their own work through to full bike rebuilds, just using specialist's where they deem the tooling/ expertise warrants the cost. Where you fit into that variety of choice is up to the individual, and how confident/ competent they are at that sort of work.

Where Businesses fit themselves into the market is also upto them, but for better or worse it really is a Global economy now, and so small Buisness have to be prepared to be compitive within that environment.

[Conquiztador]

Interesting read.

My view (not that anybody cares, but...):

- If you don't know what you are doing, pay for the help!
- If you need a bolt on bit and you can get it for 50% from overseas, then you would be an idiot paying double the price in NZ. No matter how patriotic you feel at the moment.
- $2.5K + for a shock???? You guys have too much money! My last s/h one cost $200 (and came with a box of bits including a backwheel with a good tyre, a dentfree tank, computer, fuel injectors, and list goes on. And that was all part of the price!)
- If you are racing at top level and have sponsors/money, then why not. But if you are riding on the road and you think you need to spend that money to get around a corner faster, then I suggest that the shocks are not your problem...

[quickbuck]

- If you are racing at top level and have sponsors/money, then why not. But if you are riding on the road and you think you need to spend that money to get around a corner faster, then I suggest that the shocks are not your problem...

You don't have to be at the "Top Level" to get an advantage out of top quality suspension....
It is really a case of, "You don't know what you don't know" for many riders/ Racers out there...

The thing is that the shocks may well not help you corner faster, but they will ensure the bike responds to rider input, and a corner how it is supposed to.

[SS90]

Don,t bother as I tried but no joy,here,s a copy of the e mail he sent me on an overhaul of a rear shock for my blackbird and the reply from a guy in the UK I have bought all my bird stuff from,

Hello again Kenny and apologies for the delayed reply.

Etc....




Robert Taylor

Actually Robert, this puts you in a very good light.

You opted not to work on the shock, and gave clear reasons....."some guy in England" didn't give any reason why they are "so easy to work on"

I am glad this guy posted the email.

[SS90]

Hell yes!


Look at Dave Moss for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfiQSp4CRBg&feature=channel

He sets up his tent at the tracks and charges for his suspension help. There appears to be usually a line of bikes waiting for his service. Why give it away for free then complain about putting food on the table..?


And if you can source components much more cheaply than through "official" channels... then why not? Ohlins weren't doing you any favours when they sold at much cheaper prices to big US retailers.

Sorry mate, but I think this paragraph shows hoe out of touch you are with both the NZ motorcycle scene, and the general racer.

Believe me, there is no way in hell you could get a kiwi racer to pay anywhere near the required rate for suspension advice/mods at the track. All the top guys want it for free, (infact everyone does)

The only reason Öhlins suspension is so good, is because they have an excellent ability to be customised for each rider/bike/track.

This however (as we all know) is a black art, and if you don't know what you are doing, it's all for nothing.

I refuse to accept that any distributor (be it suspension, or what ever) should be forced to do anything for free on a parallel imported product.

I know that CKT will work on a Parallel imported item, but charge "full rates", where as, if you buy from them, soi much is simply not charged (i.e, worked into the price)

We have all rung Robert/asked for help at the track, and always recieve some sort of advice (years ago, he actually advised me that a new shock would not help the problem I was having, simply a new spring was required and I assure you if he had said it would, I would have purchased one)

Believe me, if CKT turned up at a raceday (nationals or otherwise), with a tent, charging for simple advise, they would be howled at, and never recover enough money to pay for the stickers on the tent.

I can hear the conversation now.

"ok sir, I spent 20 minutes giving you advise on your (standard) suspension settings on your GSX-R-600, that's $65 (plus GST)"

"what, you can't charge me for that"

Try that at you local GP who simply gives you some antibiotics, and charges you about the same.

But, if you build it into the price, it (believe it or not) is an easier pill to swallow.

[Howie]

Sorry mate, but I think this paragraph shows hoe out of touch you are with both the NZ motorcycle scene, and the general racer.

Believe me, there is no way in hell you could get a kiwi racer to pay anywhere near the required rate for suspension advice/mods at the track. All the top guys want it for free, (infact everyone does).

I believe it show's how in touch he is with the motorcycle scene away from the race track, and a small percentage of road/ trail riders. Why should those who ride on the road, and want quality products pay a premiumin by the way of extra markup to subsidise the suport of a minority of people? Hence the need to look elsewhere to source the product.


I refuse to accept that any distributor (be it suspension, or what ever) should be forced to do anything for free on a parallel imported product.

I know that CKT will work on a Parallel imported item, but charge "full rates", where as, if you buy from them, soi much is simply not charged (i.e, worked into the price).

No problem at all with that.


We have all rung Robert/asked for help at the track, and always recieve some sort of advice (years ago, he actually advised me that a new shock would not help the problem I was having, simply a new spring was required and I assure you if he had said it would, I would have purchased one.


So you got good quality adivice that solved an issue for you, that is what value added service is about.




Believe me, if CKT turned up at a raceday (nationals or otherwise), with a tent, charging for simple advise, they would be howled at, and never recover enough money to pay for the stickers on the tent.

I can hear the conversation now.

"ok sir, I spent 20 minutes giving you advise on your (standard) suspension settings on your GSX-R-600, that's $65 (plus GST)"

"what, you can't charge me for that"

Try that at you local GP who simply gives you some antibiotics, and charges you about the same.

But, if you build it into the price, it (believe it or not) is an easier pill to swallow.

Maybe that is a Business model for the future, if the increased markup on his products to cover his support of the sporting end of the market is putting off to many potenial purchases from dealing with his business!

Tell me do other Businesses offer service's such as tyre fitting for a fee at race meetings?? Do riders complain about that?

[slowpoke]

I had a "contribution" prepared with lots quotes and rebuttals blah de blah blah....but fucked it off, 'cos basically it comes down to "typical Warehouse mentality" Kiwi's wanting the cheapest shit they can find, and damn the consequences.

We go 'round the bike shops trying on helmets, and jackets etc....then go and buy the stuff over the internet. 6 months later we're moaning 'cos Turnbull's or some other bike shop have folded and we can't find a decent shop that stocks what we want even though we never actually buy what we want from them anyway.

The letter above is a classic example of that mentality. Robert (in this case, but could be any one of a number of specialists) spends 15-20 min's distilling a lifetime of work experience into a recommendation for gratis, nix, nada, not a cracker. Sure (insert specialist here) may recoup some of that costs but by and large the ratio of enquiries to purchases isn't great, as any one man business will know when they are trying to get something done without the blardy phone ringing its box of. They're damned if they do answer the phone, and damned if they don't.

So sooner or later we'll end up with Warehouse Motorcycling. El cheapo $5 oil filters, $150 "top quality" helmets, generic clothing/accessories and runout stock bikes, with grinning 16year olds only too happy to provide "expert" assistance. Welcome to motorcycling 2020....and 80% of the motorcycling population are quite happy with this. If all you are after is a Made in Mexico Two Bro's slip-on for your Hyosung 250/650 (biggest selling sportsbike in Australia) and a new HJC helmet, what's not to like?

But I still don't understand the venom within the original and later posts. Why the personal animosity? It's your $, you can spend it where you like so if you don't like a price just move on and shut the fuck up. Robert's business is going OK so he's obviously doing something right, you can still buy your shit from soemone else if you don't want the service he's providing, so what's the bloody problem? The whingers are talking about businesses adapting due to the changing retail landscape, yet they are the ones bent out of shape and unable to adapt.

What's that? They've tied up a good product you want so you can't get it cheaper? Sounds a lil' like a supply and demand situation.....bugger, me looks like they know a thing or two about retail after all, eh?

[slowpoke]

I believe it show's how in touch he is with the motorcycle scene away from the race track, and a small percentage of road/ trail riders. Why should those who ride on the road, and want quality products pay a premiumin by the way of extra markup to subsidise the suport of a minority of people? Hence the need to look elsewhere to source the product.


Have you considered that the sporting end of the market (be it road or off road) is the driver for the suspension improvements that flow on through other segments? The other segments aren't so much subsidising the sporting guys as riding on their coat tails, sucking up all their R and D for next to nothing. Where do you think those "quality products" (and businesses) you talk about are developed? How do you think they got the reputation for being "quality products" (and businesses)? Ohlins, Penske,WP, CKT, Dukic, Ray Clee, Moto Dynamix etc have knowledge and reputations that have been hard won on the track and now you want to say "Sorry, I don't need that."? Best you get along to The Warehouse motorcycle department and have a chat to one of their 16 year old experts.

[SixPackBack]

Sorry mate, but I think this paragraph shows hoe out of touch you are with both the NZ motorcycle scene, and the general racer.

Believe me, there is no way in hell you could get a kiwi racer to pay anywhere near the required rate for suspension advice/mods at the track. All the top guys want it for free, (infact everyone does)

The only reason Öhlins suspension is so good, is because they have an excellent ability to be customised for each rider/bike/track.

This however (as we all know) is a black art, and if you don't know what you are doing, it's all for nothing.

I refuse to accept that any distributor (be it suspension, or what ever) should be forced to do anything for free on a parallel imported product.

I know that CKT will work on a Parallel imported item, but charge "full rates", where as, if you buy from them, soi much is simply not charged (i.e, worked into the price)

We have all rung Robert/asked for help at the track, and always recieve some sort of advice (years ago, he actually advised me that a new shock would not help the problem I was having, simply a new spring was required and I assure you if he had said it would, I would have purchased one)

Believe me, if CKT turned up at a raceday (nationals or otherwise), with a tent, charging for simple advise, they would be howled at, and never recover enough money to pay for the stickers on the tent.

I can hear the conversation now.

"ok sir, I spent 20 minutes giving you advise on your (standard) suspension settings on your GSX-R-600, that's $65 (plus GST)"

"what, you can't charge me for that"

Try that at you local GP who simply gives you some antibiotics, and charges you about the same.

But, if you build it into the price, it (believe it or not) is an easier pill to swallow.


I would happily pay Robert to tune the suspension trackside. $65 sounds like a bargain.

[Shaun]

Actually Robert, this puts you in a very good light.

You opted not to work on the shock, and gave clear reasons....."some guy in England" didn't give any reason why they are "so easy to work on"

I am glad this guy posted the email.



Agree 100% mate, the pom just made himself look like a DICK. Robert spent all that time to explain why He would not try to do the job ( Quality Control) and this guys uses that time to try and be little him on here, ha ha ha

[Shaun]

Have you considered that the sporting end of the market (be it road or off road) is the driver for the suspension improvements that flow on through other segments? The other segments aren't so much subsidising the sporting guys as riding on their coat tails, sucking up all their R and D for next to nothing. Where do you think those "quality products" (and businesses) you talk about are developed? How do you think they got the reputation for being "quality products" (and businesses)? Ohlins, Penske,WP, CKT, Dukic, Ray Clee, Moto Dynamix etc have knowledge and reputations that have been hard won on the track and now you want to say "Sorry, I don't need that."? Best you get along to The Warehouse motorcycle deptartment and have a chat to one of their 16 year old experts.

If some one asks me for a Wharehouse product or Wharehouse product job doing, I refer them to the Internet

[Kiwi Graham]

Thats about the size of it Shaun.
If you want it cheap, go buy it cheap, the internet is your friend. But dont come winging when its broke or dont work. You paid your money so suck it up.
If you want garanteed top quality stuff with a top aftersales service, on track support, free advise and exchange offers then support the established players in the game and look at the guys trying to establish themselves. Without the dedication of the likes of Rob, Phil, Shaun, Ray & others out there doing the best they can and god forbid try and make a living doing it NZ would be a lot worse of for it.

The only time I go off shore is if it is not available here, but I make sure I've had a bloody good look first.

[BMWST?]

I believe it show's how in touch he is with the motorcycle scene away from the race track, and a small percentage of road/ trail riders. Why should those who ride on the road, and want quality products pay a premiumin by the way of extra markup to subsidise the suport of a minority of people? Hence the need to look elsewhere to source the product.


No problem at all with that.

So you got good quality adivice that solved an issue for you, that is what value added service is about.




Maybe that is a Business model for the future, if the increased markup on his products to cover his support of the sporting end of the market is putting off to many potenial purchases from dealing with his business!

Tell me do other Businesses offer service's such as tyre fitting for a fee at race meetings?? Do riders complain about that?

i think you are missing the point somewhat Paul.Robert is trying to run a business and his product is no doubt at the top end of the market.However people import the same product at a price cheaper than he may because there is inconsistent application of "duty" etc for personal importers.That aint right.If you bring in a shock that cost you 1200 US then you should pay whats due..All this arguing about getting stuff cheaper overseas can be bought to a logical extreme.Half of us would be out of work because nearly everything can be sourced cheaper out of NZ.The rest of us would very quickly follow.I beleive this is what RT refers to when he says support the local.

[trustme]

I have a fairly simple policy,
1/ If I can't source it locally & the item will not need servicing or a warranty then I will buy on the internet.
2/ If I can source locally & the price is somewhere near the internet price I'll buy here.
3/ If the item will need servicing or warranty I will always buy locally , that does not include the
' Parallel Importers '

I had a serious look around before spending a large amount of money on shocks for the Scram.
RT was probaby the dearest but provided the best backup & service by a country mile.

Racetech & RT have obviously come to a commercial arrangement that works for both parties, A tidy situation that allows Racetech stuff to be distributed here in a professional manner with advertising , promotion , technical advice , service & backup. This quality service could not be provided if Ractech undermined RT by selling direct over the net , to me it is a no brainer on Ractech's part & sensible business practice on RT's part

Undoubtedly it will cost Racetech / RT a few sales to those driven by the savings of a few dollars . They are the tyre kickers whose business is of little value.

[Pixie]

Now I must away, Im looking out at the panoramic seascape of activity from my waterfront mansion. The new leather armchairs are really comfy and I especially like the new solid oak sidetables that have just been delivered, they are the right height so that I dont have to strain unduly to reach my cocktails. I will be bored with this soon though and retire to the southerly end of the house that overlooks the 1000 acres of plains where I can witness herds of vildebeests majestically sweeping across the horizon. It also troubles me which vehicle Im going to drive to the bordello tonight, the Ferrari or the new Aston. I think Ill also phone ahead and get the girls to dress in full Nazi regalia, about 5 of them should do the trick.
The politics of envy is still very much alive, as is simplistic ignorance

Surely if you are going to get the girls to dress like that,then the correct car to arrive in would be the SSK.

But,to play Devil's advocate,some of the arguments could be seen as Socialist/Muldoonist protectionism,the average purchaser pays a premium for those few that may require after sales service.Not exactly user pays but I guess that's life.

[Robert Taylor]

I believe it show's how in touch he is with the motorcycle scene away from the race track, and a small percentage of road/ trail riders. Why should those who ride on the road, and want quality products pay a premiumin by the way of extra markup to subsidise the suport of a minority of people? Hence the need to look elsewhere to source the product.


No problem at all with that.



So you got good quality adivice that solved an issue for you, that is what value added service is about.




Maybe that is a Business model for the future, if the increased markup on his products to cover his support of the sporting end of the market is putting off to many potenial purchases from dealing with his business!

Tell me do other Businesses offer service's such as tyre fitting for a fee at race meetings?? Do riders complain about that?

NONE, REPEAT NONE of our road racing and other sporting activity is subsidised by our regular sales. We have contracts in place with the distributor riders ( Bugden, Stroud, Smith, Shirriffs etc ) who all get first call because we are paid to be there! Then we have second tier contracts with riders like Easton, Frost etc.
Asuumption is a dangerous game.

[CRF119]

If every body stopped buying products from overseas it would make life easier on our distributors, they would beable to order more of the same product and get them in at a better price. How ever most people these days like to sit on there butt and order online normaly from overseas. This dosent help NZs problem with lack of jobs and it just means distributors get sick of stocking a product when most get it direct.


I say good on Race Tec.

How ever Crown Kiwi do seem a bit dear for a lot of there products.

I use RG3 NZ for all my suspension needs

[The Pastor]

so if your prices are more because you have the knowlede and service, is this then free?

[Stampy]

I had my Speedtriple Forks done by Robert and Shaun, Night and day difference. Money well spent, wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I bought another bike, as people have already said It's not only the springs and valve kit your paying for, it's the vast anount of knowledge that goes with it!!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

The scenario is Mr Headbanger is going out and needs a little bit of methamphetamine to help him along for the night. A Guy on the street corner has it for $400 a gram but you can go into a chemist in Bangkok and buy what you need to make this stuff for the equivalent of a couple of NZ dollars, work at it a bit and get it to Mr Headbangers place for much less than the $400.

Idiot.

Might I suggest you re-take Econ 101? The constraints in the respective markets due to to one product being lawful and one unlawful render your comparison meaningless. Not to mention pointless, and offensive. Mr Headbanger has every right to be rather ticked off at your inference that he is a user of a Class A prohibited substance, you dick.

[imdying]

Errrr.. I think you need to find another suspension guy.. They are actually very easy to work on if you're happy with me doing half a job and being based on an upmarket unit once the issues are sorted out great shocks !Added the missing bit. Sure, I can paint your car for $300, but don't open the bonnet of doors, those bits are hard to get to so I didn't do them :rolleyes:

[ukusa]

If every body stopped buying products from overseas it would make life easier on our distributors, they would beable to order more of the same product and get them in at a better price. How ever most people these days like to sit on there butt and order online normaly from overseas. This dosent help NZs problem with lack of jobs and it just means distributors get sick of stocking a product when most get it direct.

But it's the distributor who needs to make the first move, otherwise it's a catch 22, chicken or the egg stuff.
I know the size of NZ will never make things cheaper than the States, but If the distributor took a risk & bought a few more of a product in in order to lower the price a bit for consumers, then maybe people will start buying here first, but they need to make the first move.
For technical and/or mechanical stuff I can see where the expertise of the local supplier might be needed, but prices for the majority of other accessories (seats, fairings, racks, bars, chrome bits etc etc) all stuff that the average Joe Bloggs can fit themselves without any technical knowledge whatsoever needs to shift down to encourage the local buyers.
I've recently spent around NZ$700 on bits & pieces out of the States & that includes shipping, exchange rate and GST. That same lot would have cost me a around $1200 locally. If the prices were only a few dollars more here I would have bought here, no question. but as it stands, there's no comparison.
Do the distributors even know how much cheaper ex-overseas is, or do they work on the theory that only 50% of people order overseas, so they still make enough money of the person paying top dollar?
IMO you're better off selling 100 items at $100 each than only 50 items at $200 each.

[Howie]

Have you considered that the sporting end of the market (be it road or off road) is the driver for the suspension improvements that flow on through other segments? The other segments aren't so much subsidising the sporting guys as riding on their coat tails, sucking up all their R and D for next to nothing. Where do you think those "quality products" (and businesses) you talk about are developed? How do you think they got the reputation for being "quality products" (and businesses)? Ohlins, Penske,WP, CKT, Dukic, Ray Clee, Moto Dynamix etc have knowledge and reputations that have been hard won on the track and now you want to say "Sorry, I don't need that."? Best you get along to The Warehouse motorcycle department and have a chat to one of their 16 year old experts.


Yep I have considered that, and that is built into the manufacture's price of the product ex factory!! not on the market put on by a wholesaler or distributor.
If I need the technical advice for something I'll gladly pay for it, as and when required



i think you are missing the point somewhat Paul.Robert is trying to run a business and his product is no doubt at the top end of the market.However people import the same product at a price cheaper than he may because there is inconsistent application of "duty" etc for personal importers.That aint right.If you bring in a shock that cost you 1200 US then you should pay whats due..All this arguing about getting stuff cheaper overseas can be bought to a logical extreme.Half of us would be out of work because nearly everything can be sourced cheaper out of NZ.The rest of us would very quickly follow.I beleive this is what RT refers to when he says support the local.

only some of the price discrepancy can be put down to import duties/GST not being paid by single private imports, and should also be offset by economies of scale with shipping costs etc.
The main reason for the government to not purse GST on all private importing is probably that the cost of enforcement would out weigh the money earned.
The argument of half of us would be out of work doesn't stand up Paul, as nearly the same amount of money is ending up offshore, it is just the middle man missing out.
I don't mind paying for value added, which in the case of Robert is sure to be there by the sounds of it, howeverI prefer to see that I am paying for the service and not the product then I know what I am purchasing.


NONE, REPEAT NONE of our road racing and other sporting activity is subsidised by our regular sales. We have contracts in place with the distributor riders ( Bugden, Stroud, Smith, Shirriffs etc ) who all get first call because we are paid to be there! Then we have second tier contracts with riders like Easton, Frost etc.
Asuumption is a dangerous game.

Fair coment Robert, I apoligise for the way that came across.

I am probably looking for realistic reasons for the price discrepancies between purchasing in NZ vs Buying through the internet. Not just in suspension products, or even motorcycle products for that matter.

[HenryDorsetCase]

But it's the distributor who needs to make the first move, otherwise it's a catch 22, chicken or the egg stuff.
I know the size of NZ will never make things cheaper than the States, but If the distributor took a risk & bought a few more of a product in in order to lower the price a bit for consumers, then maybe people will start buying here first, but they need to make the first move.
For technical and/or mechanical stuff I can see where the expertise of the local supplier might be needed, but prices for the majority of other accessories (seats, fairings, racks, bars, chrome bits etc etc) all stuff that the average Joe Bloggs can fit themselves without any technical knowledge whatsoever needs to shift down to encourage the local buyers.
I've recently spent around NZ$700 on bits & pieces out of the States & that includes shipping, exchange rate and GST. That same lot would have cost me a around $1200 locally. If the prices were only a few dollars more here I would have bought here, no question. but as it stands, there's no comparison.
Do the distributors even know how much cheaper ex-overseas is, or do they work on the theory that only 50% of people order overseas, so they still make enough money of the person paying top dollar?
IMO you're better off selling 100 items at $100 each than only 50 items at $200 each.

Triumph accessory prices here are a joke.

in your last example, havent you made $10000 each time, but in your $100 x 100 example havent you had twice the hassle?

the issue is if the price is $100, you might sell 400, if the price is $200, you might sell 100 items: I think I remember pyramid shaped diagrams waaaaay in the dim reaches of my memory apparently illustrating supply and demand or marginal something or other. Buggered if I remember now but I am sure it was riveting.

[Ivan]

well how about you stop your fucking crying on the inter web thingy and buy some shit from overseas and save you self $20 and why your at it start up your own company and import all your own gear and supply all the other whingers and see how easy it is to make a living out of it

I was thinking the same thing this guy is a Robert Basher I have read his name bashing Roberts work in threads,

I think he should just admit he is making pointless small digs trying to make Robert look like a criminal when in fact said person is making himself look like a cry baby

[SixPackBack]

I was thinking the same thing this guy is a Robert Basher I have read his name bashing Roberts work in threads,

I think he should just admit he is making pointless small digs trying to make Robert look like a criminal when in fact said person is making himself look like a cry baby

Hard to argue with that Ivan.

I have a new found respect for Robert after this thread. It is now obvious that CKT is as much a victim of circumstance, and the disparity in NZ vs USA pricing comes largely from a combination of import duty, stock level, and bulk discounting that heavily favours the USA.

[Ivan]

The thing is I could get my Ohlins etc from overseas cheap as chips, But I dont know if it is fucked or not? seals could be gone etc at least paying through Robert you know it comes good and he helps you when you need his help.

I have brought anything suspension through CKT and will not go any were else

[Pussy]

With the support and back-up that CKT offer, it's a no-brainer to me that I will continue my dealings with them.
I have been very fortunate over the years to get to trial new stuff and different settings etc for Robert too.
CKT have a passion for their field.

[ukusa]

Triumph accessory prices here are a joke.



in your last example, havent you made $10000 each time, but in your $100 x 100 example havent you had twice the hassle?


the issue is if the price is $100, you might sell 400, if the price is $200, you might sell 100 items: I think I remember pyramid shaped diagrams waaaaay in the dim reaches of my memory apparently illustrating supply and demand or marginal something or other. Buggered if I remember now but I am sure it was riveting.

In my experience most other brands are also bloody expensive.

I see it as a bit like those who set prices for events like rugby. They charge too much, then complain after low turnout that no one is supporting the local team. Better to have 30000 supporters at $10 each than 2000 supporters at $50 each. I know selling motorcycle parts is completely different, but kiwis are well known for seeking a bargain, why do you think pak n save 5 kms away is always full, but the local 4 square isn't.

[quickbuck]

why do you think pak n save 5 kms away is always full, but the local 4 square isn't.

Ummmm, they are both owned by the same company......
You will save the $2.00 it cost you in fuel in the first 3 items you buy from Pak'n'Save.... Not to mention there is much more variety there...

Yes, it makes more economic sense to go to Pak'n'save.... BUT If you want quality and your Groceries packed, you go to New World... Oh, and the quality is a little better, AND They are usually full too! (Again, same company).

[CRF119]

The other problem we have as a bisness is importers tax, that should be scrapped if the goverment wants to encourge spending in new zealand not off shore.

[trustme]

But it's the distributor who needs to make the first move, otherwise it's a catch 22, chicken or the egg stuff.
I know the size of NZ will never make things cheaper than the States, but If the distributor took a risk & bought a few more of a product in in order to lower the price a bit for consumers, then maybe people will start buying here first, but they need to make the first move.
For technical and/or mechanical stuff I can see where the expertise of the local supplier might be needed, but prices for the majority of other accessories (seats, fairings, racks, bars, chrome bits etc etc) all stuff that the average Joe Bloggs can fit themselves without any technical knowledge whatsoever needs to shift down to encourage the local buyers.
I've recently spent around NZ$700 on bits & pieces out of the States & that includes shipping, exchange rate and GST. That same lot would have cost me a around $1200 locally. If the prices were only a few dollars more here I would have bought here, no question. but as it stands, there's no comparison.
Do the distributors even know how much cheaper ex-overseas is, or do they work on the theory that only 50% of people order overseas, so they still make enough money of the person paying top dollar?
IMO you're better off selling 100 items at $100 each than only 50 items at $200 each.

IT'S REALLY SIMPLE MATE

Product has a value to the importer of $70 & he puts on a margin of $30 so cost to you is $100
If the importer reduces his margin by 50% so retail price is $70 + $15 = $85 , he has to sell twice as many of the product just to stand still
Is that a realistic expectation in the NZ motorcycling market where the pencil dicks want every thing at 1/2 price
It is a recipe for going broke IMHO.

[Headbanger]

IT'S REALLY SIMPLE MATE

Product has a value to the importer of $70 & he puts on a margin of $30 so cost to you is $100
If the importer reduces his margin by 50% so retail price is $70 + $15 = $85 , he has to sell twice as many of the product just to stand still
Is that a realistic expectation in the NZ motorcycling market where the pencil dicks want every thing at 1/2 price
It is a recipe for going broke IMHO.

heh, You missed every point made and explored in the entire thread.

[Robert Taylor]

Well this tread has turned into another shitfest. My take is, If I had the $$$ I would happily pay the extra to gain the services of CKT. Sad fact is I cannot afford this option at this time.I am not willing to try and get a deal out Of Robert that would be more costly (to him)than not not getting my business at all.Therefore I am looking at interwebby options for hopefully a resonable product but without the local backup.I know its a risk but I just cant spend what I dont have.A business like CKT would seem to be a real asset to the motorcyle community and should be supported whenever possible.

FORK SPRINGS...........................

I have identified the fork spring series required and I have these in an Ohlins series and I can sell you these inclusive of spacer tube ( and instructions plus telephone support ) at an attractive price. Part of the reason for that is you have been a very decent human being, theres a message in that remark which I make no apology for.

50% or so of the problem is spring rate and 50% of the remaining problem is poor hydraulic control that can be fixed by installing genuine RACE TECH Emulators. When changing springs only a certain rate is required, when combining with emulators it is arguable that you can run a slightly softer spring rate as there is now control over the ''rate of change of position'' So, if later on you decide you have the budget for emulators we will exchange the springs for a slightly softer rate.

A word about these Ohlins springs, arguably they are the very best springs available ( yes better again than Race Tech ) as the length tolerancing and rate tolerancing are very very precise. The polish process is much better and that allied with ends that are square means there is less sidethrust and friction rubbing against the internal fork tube walls
These particular ones have their rates indelibly laser etched on their ends which makes it quick and a no brainer to identify their rate. Ink as used by other manufacturers rubs off in short order.

Ohlins also do a number of fork spring kits for popular road bikes ( and dirt bikes ) that are a preset length and can be combined with the standard spacer tubes etc, so there is no laborious working out of preload, cutting of preload spacers and recutting, all the work is done. Unfortunately they dont do them for every make and model as it would be commercial suicide. But it sure makes life easy for everyone where they do have a listing for you. Other spring manufacturers such as Race Tech, Eibach etc generally only do them in generic lengths which dont match oem

A word about Race Tech Emulators. Race Tech make the only emulator that works properly and is long term reliable and has proper backup in this country. We always change the poppett springs according to the application and damping feel required, in special circumstances such as Pro Twin racing we adjust the bleed hole size, very easy when you have a workable and easy material, brass.

Libel laws preclude me naming but theres some cheap and cheerful mainland Asian emulators on the market. We surreptitiously purchased and tested a set some months back;

Dissapointment number 1, the bleed hole sizing was too large giving sloppy damping. As the material is aluminium alloy you simply cannot solder it up, youd have to drill and tap to accept interchangeable jets. So not so user friendly

Dissapointment number 2, the base material is alloy with a thin anodised coating which over not too much time will wear through to the soft underbelly. Emulators sit inside the top well of the damper rod and in more than 50% of cases it doesnt sit square to the inner wall of the fork tube. The emultor is locked in place by the preload of the fork spring sitting right on top of it and many cheaper fork springs are not square and can also be a little sharp on their edges. That means the anodising can wear through in short order and once soft alloy is exposed chards of alloy find their way into the fork oil and very often end up deposited in the teflon outer coating of fork bushings. Not good

Dissapointment number 3, The poppet springs sack out and there is then no damping. f you remove a poppet spring and compress it as fully as you can with your fingers it doesnt return to its original length! We know because we tried and the length returned to was only 2/3rds of original.

If you pay cheap theres usually some insidious reason such as really bad quality and material choices.

[Headbanger]

Just off the cuff, Being a fat bastard at 130KG and asuming that bikes in general especially rinky dinky little bikes like the speed triple aren't designed for this amount of weight, would I expect worse suspension performance from my bike then a person of average weight, and is there any thing I should do with the stock set up to compensate for my big fat arse?

[Robert Taylor]

Just off the cuff, Being a fat bastard at 130KG and asuming that bikes in general especially rinky dinky little bikes like the speed triple aren't designed for this amount of weight, would I expect worse suspension performance from my bike then a person of average weight, and is there any thing I should do with the stock set up to compensate for my big fat arse?

The ride will likely feel harsh to you because the spring rate is way too soft at both ends, but most noticable in the rear. If you do nothing else change the springs and combine that with a fork oil viscosity change in the front to a thicker viscosity. This to give it more high speed rebound damping to allow some re-extension control as the firmer springs will otherwise make it rebound too fast, destabilising the bike. In the rear its a little bit counterintuitive, sometimes you can respring without having to recalibrate the high speed rebound stack. Firmer springs require less preload and there is still your body mass sitting right on top of the rear shock. In a puddle jumper ( mx bikes and hats worn back to front etc ) its a little different as they are always standing up on the things.
We have lots of good used Ohlins springs in stock at VERY GOOD prices that often fit shocks like these. It is unfortunately a little misleading to do a spring search with Race Tech etc to get the spring dimensions. This because the part numbers they state are often generic sizes that dont match the oem springs and often also require sizing adaptors. So its a little bit of a pain, if you dont mind going through the process of removing the original and informing what its free length and id are at each end we can then see what options we have that are close and will fit without too much drama. We also know approximately what the stock rate is.
Very often if we are unsure of whether rate option A or option B will be best for your personal preference ( and it does come down to that ) we will send a couple of spring options with a paper trail and then reconcile and square everything up when you are satisfied.

[Headbanger]

The ride will likely feel harsh to you because the spring rate is way too soft at both ends, but most noticable in the rear. If you do nothing else change the springs and combine that with a fork oil viscosity change in the front to a thicker viscosity. This to give it more high speed rebound damping to allow some re-extension control.....

Whoa, Cheers for the info, I have made note of it for future reference, I'll have to read it through a couple more times to process it all.

Currently the bike feels fine to me, But its hasn't yet had the newness worn off it yet and all I have to compare it to is a HD with a mushy front end and a bouncy rear end. I assume the ride will get harsher as I rack up a few more miles.

[slowpoke]

Idiot.

Might I suggest you re-take Econ 101? The constraints in the respective markets due to to one product being lawful and one unlawful render your comparison meaningless. Not to mention pointless, and offensive. Mr Headbanger has every right to be rather ticked off at your inference that he is a user of a Class A prohibited substance, you dick.

Good god man, lighten up. Is this a typical response or did someone forget to restock the jellybean jar?

[avgas]

so if your prices are more because you have the knowlede and service, is this then free?

as an inkjet printer without cartridges........

[avgas]

What do you say Robert? will we get full support on product we have bought over the inter-web?

I had this recently, and the answer is very simple.
Yes
But you pay for it. If its a product that is supported here, you will get support for it. But since you neither have the support contract in the local country via the local distributer - you will pay. Its pretty basic stuff really.
Don't want to pay - that is fine, send it back to where you bought it from.
This is the same for EVERY industry. Except the ones that just dont want your business.
Most companies add atleast 4% for product support - to support their local customers. This covers all the free-bies.

[SS90]

So I go looking for a stiffer spring to throw on my rear shock to shorten up the 45mm of rider sag a bit. Racetech US have a good selection of stiffer ratings on their site, US$109 for the spring. That's NZ$154. Shipping was usually around the US$35 mark, so looking at about NZ$185-195 delivered to my doorstep. Shipping being a bit of a rip, but easier than rowing it across the pacific in your own canoe..

I've purchased racetech products from them before, and they were quick and efficient.


etc......

Viscount Montgomery,

I was just wondering, not so much as to identify you, but rather to put some perspective on your position, can you please tell me what industry you are in?

[BIG DOUG]

freight from the usa in steep,like to see you get that spring here for $35.00 us dollars more like $70.00-75.00 so this just bumped the price up on said spring.

[sinfull]

Whoa, Cheers for the info, I have made note of it for future reference, I'll have to read it through a couple more times to process it all.

Currently the bike feels fine to me, But its hasn't yet had the newness worn off it yet and all I have to compare it to is a HD with a mushy front end and a bouncy rear end. I assume the ride will get harsher as I rack up a few more miles.
http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/How_I_set_up_my_motorbike.pdf

While your in the reading mode HB, go through this PDF and have a play with the set up of the bike (after writing the OEM settings down of course lol AYE Robert) ! I set my 06 speed three up to my wieght and it worked out nice with OEM springs (albeit a little hard but i like that), but i'm 110kg gear on, so you may have to look at spring rates as RT says, as by the time you get a reasonable rider sag at 130kg, it may end up being like riding a hard tail !

[Robert Taylor]

Viscount Montgomery,

I was just wondering, not so much as to identify you, but rather to put some perspective on your position, can you please tell me what industry you are in?

Well I guess good luck for that wish....I am privy to this guys identity. But in spite of his ungentlemanly conduct and inability to accept other viewpoints I am not tempted to publish it for everyone to know. It is his choice to gutlessly hide behind his ''stage name'' while slinging lots of mud and also his own choice to divulge more personal details.
I can only guess that like all of us he is just as implicated in the personal and national hypocirsies that blight our civilizations. We all want our cake and eat it too.
Ill get blighted in some quarters for saying this, but Im only reciting what many will think

[BigOne]

Go Robert!
I liked the gear I bought from you, and the way the slightly stiffer springs I needed turned up the next day, etc.
What I liked most however, was the way the Ohlins back end and RaceTech bits installed in the front end transformed my SV650 and turned it into a gixxer hunter.
One $ spent on the suspension of almost any bike is worth $10 spent on the motor. The price seems high for good suspenders, but once you fit good equipment, the only thing you are left wondering is why you took so long to get it.
That's my opinion.

[BigOne]

oops, double post

[pritch]

Is this tragic train wreck of a thread still going?

Some prominent foreign psychiatrist visited this country about 1970 and received much publicity with a statement to the effect that one in every five people is suffering some mental disorder. :crazy:

Reading this thread does nothing much to dispel that theory :whistle:

[Robert Taylor]

Is this tragic train wreck of a thread still going?

Some prominent foreign psychiatrist visited this country about 1970 and received much publicity with a statement to the effect that one in every five people is suffering some mental disorder. :crazy:

Reading this thread does nothing much to dispel that theory :whistle:

That was after the election in 1972 Pritch!

[DEATH_INC.]

Some prominent foreign psychiatrist visited this country about 1970 and received much publicity with a statement to the effect that one in every five people is suffering some mental disorder. :crazy:
Now you KNOW that's out of date.....ONLY 1 in 5?????

[dipshit]

Viscount Montgomery,

I was just wondering, not so much as to identify you, but rather to put some perspective on your position, can you please tell me what industry you are in?

I'm picking he's a motorcycle mechanic.

[SixPackBack]

I'm picking he's a motorcycle mechanic.

Is that true katman?

[tri boy]

Doubt that he is a m/cycle mechanic. (a trained/qualified one at least)
More like a union shit stirrer.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Go Robert!
I liked the gear I bought from you, and the way the slightly stiffer springs I needed turned up the next day, etc.
What I liked most however, was the way the Ohlins back end and RaceTech bits installed in the front end transformed my SV650 and turned it into a gixxer hunter.
One $ spent on the suspension of almost any bike is worth $10 spent on the motor. The price seems high for good suspenders, but once you fit good equipment, the only thing you are left wondering is why you took so long to get it.
That's my opinion.

Its not an opinion, its a fact.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'm picking he's a motorcycle mechanic.

librarian and PSA delegate

[cs363]

Or perhaps an ACC accountant? That would explain his grasp on reality....

[Viscount Montgomery]

Well I guess good luck for that wish....I am privy to this guys identity. But in spite of his ungentlemanly conduct and inability to accept other viewpoints I am not tempted to publish it for everyone to know. It is his choice to gutlessly hide behind his ''stage name'' while slinging lots of mud and also his own choice to divulge more personal details.
I can only guess that like all of us he is just as implicated in the personal and national hypocirsies that blight our civilizations. We all want our cake and eat it too.
Ill get blighted in some quarters for saying this, but Im only reciting what many will think



Ah, here we go again, I've been away for a week, working, (in the forestry for the curious ) and this shit is still going round in circles. Good for the egotists it must be. Taylor, YOU'VE been slinging mud at me the whole time huh? Mr know-it-all with all the answers still on his high horse eh? Getting a bit bored now are we and looking for more action huh?

Because 95% of people on these forums have no desire to broadcast their own name and details to all and sundry on the internet, it makes them gutless does it? Your arrogance is showing again. I don't have the self-promoting agenda of self-interest as you do Mr know-all. Because someone decides to use their own name rather than a 'stage name' on a forum, it automatically makes them a 'better' person does it? Taylor, you're so far up yourself it's incredible.

I'm also not surrounded with an entourage of fawning, boot-licking followers who are totally convinced the sun shines directly out of their masters' shiny backside either.

Ie.. I took my bike to "them' and they twiddled my knobs with a special ohlins screwdriver and stroked and lubed my shaft with a special blend of brasso and ohlins snake oil and wow! my bike is so amazing now, it's just wonderful! The 2000 bucks it cost was worth every penny!

Sorry, but the placebo effect doesn't work on the non-gullible...

Anyone who disagrees with this Taylor characters' self-righteous, all-knowing manner is immediately dismissed with imperious disdain as an idiot/moron/retard.

Anyone who has the temerity to do their own mods or their own thing is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone who doesn't pander to the desperate clutching middlemen in this country is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone who won't sit back and submit to over-pricing or blatant profiteering is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone not prepared to spend mega-bucks on overpriced top-of-the-line products is an idiot/retard/moron. Anyone who doesn't buy into the used-car-salesman hype is an idiot/retard/moron...

That's how all this self promoting garbage comes across to me. Best you put your head down, do your job and keep your lofty opinions of your own worth to yourself and zip the mouth shut Taylor.

[Shaun]

Because 95% of people on these forums have no desire to broadcast their own name and details to all and sundry on the internet, it makes them gutless does it?



When they post abuse likes your;s YES it does make them gutless

[Viscount Montgomery]

Because 95% of people on these forums have no desire to broadcast their own name and details to all and sundry on the internet, it makes them gutless does it?



When they post abuse likes your;s YES it does make them gutless


Abuse be fucked! I'm telling it how it is, got any more trumped up words for me?

[trustme]

When are you returning to planet 'Forest' , soon I hope.

For the record, this fawning acolyte still has the first sixpence he ever earnt , a fact my business partner is constantly telling people. I looked very carefully at what was available before making my choice as I had no great desire to send large amounts of money RT's way is I did not have to.
I bought a Racetech kit for the front end from a local guy, nice bloke, but was of almost no use when it came to info or advice regarding installation, I figured I would fit it myself , got an engineering background how hard could it be.
The fitting was almost a piece of piss , the tuning was where my lack of knowledge really kicked in, I'm getting there, way better than it was standard but still a couple of things I have to try to see if I can get it better. In retrospect I should have gone straight to RT & saved myself a heap of shagging around, I don't really regret what I did as it has been a learning experience that has cost me a bit of time, oil & a few minor parts but I am in no doubt the RT would have got me to the same point a hell of a lot quicker
The Ohlins shocks came later, the cost made my eyes fair water, It was the right choice for me, the cheaper shocks were not going to hold up & nothing else available came with RT's backup. They came as speced by RT , bolted then on &' Bob's yer bloody uncle'

I've done it both ways now, with RT's backup & without, I know which way is easier & in the long run more cost effective [ not cheaper ]

I suggest you save your money, buy off the web ,then you will spend so much extra time sorting it out you won't have any spare time to give us earache.

[BMWST?]

Ah, here we go again, I've been away for a week, working, (in the forestry for the curious ) and this shit is still going round in circles. Good for the egotists it must be. Taylor, YOU'VE been slinging mud at me the whole time huh? Mr know-it-all with all the answers still on his high horse eh? Getting a bit bored now are we and looking for more action huh?


Re your springs have you tried going to a local spring place and seeing if they can wind you a spring?It is not a black art.If you take your spring with you they can take measurements and calculate the rate.Using those measurements and your nominated rate they can wind you a spring,maybe even a progressive.At one time i got a couple of springs wound for a mountain bike,they were about 60 dollars each.A motorcycle one would obviously be lots more,but you can get exactly the rate you want.

[Robert Taylor]

Well balanced equals a chip on each shoulder!

[Robert Taylor]

ah, here we go again, i've been away for a week, working, (in the forestry for the curious ) and this shit is still going round in circles. Good for the egotists it must be. Taylor, you've been slinging mud at me the whole time huh? Mr know-it-all with all the answers still on his high horse eh? Getting a bit bored now are we and looking for more action huh?

Because 95% of people on these forums have no desire to broadcast their own name and details to all and sundry on the internet, it makes them gutless does it? Your arrogance is showing again. I don't have the self-promoting agenda of self-interest as you do mr know-all. Because someone decides to use their own name rather than a 'stage name' on a forum, it automatically makes them a 'better' person does it? Taylor, you're so far up yourself it's incredible.

I'm also not surrounded with an entourage of fawning, boot-licking followers who are totally convinced the sun shines directly out of their masters' shiny backside either.

Ie.. I took my bike to "them' and they twiddled my knobs with a special ohlins screwdriver and stroked and lubed my shaft with a special blend of brasso and ohlins snake oil and wow! My bike is so amazing now, it's just wonderful! The 2000 bucks it cost was worth every penny!

Sorry, but the placebo effect doesn't work on the non-gullible...

Anyone who disagrees with this taylor characters' self-righteous, all-knowing manner is immediately dismissed with imperious disdain as an idiot/moron/retard.

Anyone who has the temerity to do their own mods or their own thing is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone who doesn't pander to the desperate clutching middlemen in this country is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone who won't sit back and submit to over-pricing or blatant profiteering is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone not prepared to spend mega-bucks on overpriced top-of-the-line products is an idiot/retard/moron. Anyone who doesn't buy into the used-car-salesman hype is an idiot/retard/moron...

That's how all this self promoting garbage comes across to me. Best you put your head down, do your job and keep your lofty opinions of your own worth to yourself and zip the mouth shut taylor.

does shutting up also include ceasing to actively help ( yes help ) people on these forums??????????????????????????????????????????

[Robert Taylor]

Re your springs have you tried going to a local spring place and seeing if they can wind you a spring?It is not a black art.If you take your spring with you they can take measurements and calculate the rate.Using those measurements and your nominated rate they can wind you a spring,maybe even a progressive.At one time i got a couple of springs wound for a mountain bike,they were about 60 dollars each.A motorcycle one would obviously be lots more,but you can get exactly the rate you want.

The spring manufacturers here often make a nice job but you also have to be wary about the source of the material, most of the top quality material comes from Germany and Sweden. I think a lot of the material that is used here may not be up to spec as I have seen and heard of many locally made springs sacking out quickly. Please someone tell me if youve had better results?

[Shaun]

Majority rule

Replies: 228
Views: 4,699

Racetech thread

Thanks for actively promoting the name on here

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ah, here we go again, ....and you did, straight to my ignore list.

Your ad hominem approach to this is quite stunning. I do happen to be a very happy customer of CKT's, but basically it comes down to choice doesnt it? Just because you dont see the value, doesnt mean there is no value. Just because you've thrown your toys out of the cot, relatively spectacularly, doesnt mean others can't be and arent happy.

[Headbanger]

Best you put your head down, do your job and keep your lofty opinions of your own worth to yourself and zip the mouth shut Taylor.

You can't have it both ways, If your going to present one view in your style then others are certainly well in their right to present whatever views they hold, in whatever style they deem fit, And if your view gets swamped in indignation by many others then you could probably learn something from that.

[SS90]

(in the forestry for the curious )

Hi Viscount Montgomery,

Thank's for answering my question.

Interestingly enough, the forestry industry is a good example of blatant capatalism.....how?

Trees are free.

The seeds are supplied by nature, grown by nature, and, essentially, an inexhaustable supply.

you derive a living from, essentially, Nature providing a product, that, is simply cut down (to be replanted with FREE seeds, again supplied by nature), in land, that again, is supplied by nature.

And, somone has to pay for these trees before they get them.

Hmmmm,

I don't think Öhlins "grow on trees".......

[Shaun]

You can't have it both ways, If your going to present one view in your style then others are certainly well in their right to present whatever views they hold, in whatever style they deem fit, And if your view gets swamped in indignation by many others then you could probably learn something from that.



nah mate, IGNORANCE is Bliss

[BMWST?]

The spring manufacturers here often make a nice job but you also have to be wary about the source of the material, most of the top quality material comes from Germany and Sweden. I think a lot of the material that is used here may not be up to spec as I have seen and heard of many locally made springs sacking out quickly. Please someone tell me if youve had better results?

Dont know Robert,just putting an alternative out there.

[Viscount Montgomery]

So some precious so and so put me on his ignore list. Jesus how pathetic can you get? Going ostrich style, that'll really help you along in life won't it. Grow up diddims.

So OK, someone will have the last say here because this is my last post in this stupid bloody thread.

Now, Mr Taylor claims he's a professional, but the true colours really showed here. He handled it all wrong, one disgruntled customer (non-customer) and he DID take to insults on a personal level. Then in the next breath condemned ME for 'ungentlemanly' conduct. There's that much used H word again..

Bottom line for me, racetech NZ's pricing is deplorable. Pricing I can handle, I just go shopping elsewhere for much better deals without a word of complaint. There's plenty of businesses out there who won't ever get a cent from my pocket. Their problem not mine.

But racetech and their cronies cynically shutting off the international online option is the stunt that pisses me right off. That's the stinky part of all this. Sneaky behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing without a word spoken as how I see it.

AND, talking about sneaky behind-the-scenes action, some people here are claiming to be 'privvy' to my own personal PRIVATE details. How can that be when my details on this site are supposed to be PRIVATE?? Well?

I've never looked at anyone's profile on this site. Ever. And never will. I'm just not interested and it's just none of my business to be delving into others' details. If people want to give out their names and details then good luck to them, fine, that's their own choice. I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do. Lots value their privacy. So why do sticky beaks insist on trying to tell me what I should or shouldn't do on that score? huh? And some aggressive prima-donna poisonous dwarf calling me gutless is fucken crap, real brave behind the keyboard eh?

And HeadBanger I don't give a rats ass as to how people present their views, Of anyone here, I'm all for saying what you goddam like. Doesn't mean I have to agree does it? I'm not the precious, pursed lipped one here am I? BMWST, I'll sort myself a spring somehow or other bro.


As for my job, I'm way too old to be swinging on a chainsaw these days, long cold wet winter coming up..

I know! I could get a cushy office job with racetech! Something that'll suit my politically correct, understated, pleasant demeanor. Liason officer perhaps, or something in public effing relations? I wouldn't have to deal with spics gooks and chinks on too regular a basis would I?

Yeah, giz a job. Hurry up. giz a job

[Owl]

After the news yesterday, I thought you may work for Telecoms customer service dept?:D

[kwaka_crasher]

I really don't care if Robert Taylor wants to (or has to) charge more for the Racetech product. People will decide for themselves if the added value is worthwhile to them.

But I do care about Racetech refusing to selll to international customers just because they have an agent here. I wouldn't use them on that basis alone. Sure, CKT may have to recoup the cost of any agency fees and training they may be obliged to undertake etc. but that's up to CKT to determine if being a Racetech agent is worth it's while to them based on customers willingness to pay the extra for the service.

[Robert Taylor]

Certainly you reap what you sow. As has been demonstarted in spades in this thread if you have an obnoxious attitude you will recieve almost universal condemnation.

I dont sit at an office desk all day, dont wear a tie, dont drink lattes or talk to people through dark sunglasses etc.... But I do drink red wine in preference to beer so I guess that doesnt make me a real bloke. I do use expletives but also know where not to use them, heck thats self righteous.

Invariably Im on the workshop floor with oily hands pulling suspension units apart and then Im in ''conference'' with my right hand man Dennis deciding on settings etc. My staff are well paid and I dont begrudge that for one moment. They do a great job, there are few problems and I dont begrudge them a decent standard of living.


Contrary to popular misconception its not all about just pulling the suspension units out of boxes and fitting them up. NZ has a very high ratio of bumpy and challenging roads and riding in almost all codes of motorcycling is pretty much year round. The reality is that much more often than is realised we further tailor the internal settings to better suit our conditions, we also do more than a few that have been privately imported.

Yes there are ''snake oil'' people about but we very definitely do not fall into that category, nor do we compare to used car salesmen ( although I do know some very amenable used car salesmen )

Race Tech are not the only people who are beginning to tighten up with respect to distributors appointed territories, there are more than a few others in all sorts of industries and I believe there will be more movement this way.

Yes, pricing is a problem and I think the day will come when there is only one margin which will effectively cut out the dealer. That will also cut out being able to go down to the local dealer for setup help so thats a definite negative

As many people know we will do deals, if there is a ''full package'' we then have more flexibility to do so, as does any seller. Just ring or e-mail me, straight up. If youre honest youll get an honest deal.

People indeed shop wherever they choose. I prefer not to deal with obnoxious foul mouthed people.

[pc220]

Ah, here we go again, I've been away for a week, working, (in the forestry for the curious ) and this shit is still going round in circles. Good for the egotists it must be. Taylor, YOU'VE been slinging mud at me the whole time huh? Mr know-it-all with all the answers still on his high horse eh? Getting a bit bored now are we and looking for more action huh?

Because 95% of people on these forums have no desire to broadcast their own name and details to all and sundry on the internet, it makes them gutless does it? Your arrogance is showing again. I don't have the self-promoting agenda of self-interest as you do Mr know-all. Because someone decides to use their own name rather than a 'stage name' on a forum, it automatically makes them a 'better' person does it? Taylor, you're so far up yourself it's incredible.

I'm also not surrounded with an entourage of fawning, boot-licking followers who are totally convinced the sun shines directly out of their masters' shiny backside either.

Ie.. I took my bike to "them' and they twiddled my knobs with a special ohlins screwdriver and stroked and lubed my shaft with a special blend of brasso and ohlins snake oil and wow! my bike is so amazing now, it's just wonderful! The 2000 bucks it cost was worth every penny!

Sorry, but the placebo effect doesn't work on the non-gullible...

Anyone who disagrees with this Taylor characters' self-righteous, all-knowing manner is immediately dismissed with imperious disdain as an idiot/moron/retard.

Anyone who has the temerity to do their own mods or their own thing is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone who doesn't pander to the desperate clutching middlemen in this country is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone who won't sit back and submit to over-pricing or blatant profiteering is an idiot/moron/retard. Anyone not prepared to spend mega-bucks on overpriced top-of-the-line products is an idiot/retard/moron. Anyone who doesn't buy into the used-car-salesman hype is an idiot/retard/moron...

That's how all this self promoting garbage comes across to me. Best you put your head down, do your job and keep your lofty opinions of your own worth to yourself and zip the mouth shut Taylor.
Mate, Talking that sort of shit you must either be a pruner or planter.

[pc220]

FORK SPRINGS...........................

I have identified the fork spring series required and I have these in an Ohlins series and I can sell you these inclusive of spacer tube ( and instructions plus telephone support ) at an attractive price. Part of the reason for that is you have been a very decent human being, theres a message in that remark which I make no apology for.

50% or so of the problem is spring rate and 50% of the remaining problem is poor hydraulic control that can be fixed by installing genuine RACE TECH Emulators. When changing springs only a certain rate is required, when combining with emulators it is arguable that you can run a slightly softer spring rate as there is now control over the ''rate of change of position'' So, if later on you decide you have the budget for emulators we will exchange the springs for a slightly softer rate.

A word about these Ohlins springs, arguably they are the very best springs available ( yes better again than Race Tech ) as the length tolerancing and rate tolerancing are very very precise. The polish process is much better and that allied with ends that are square means there is less sidethrust and friction rubbing against the internal fork tube walls
These particular ones have their rates indelibly laser etched on their ends which makes it quick and a no brainer to identify their rate. Ink as used by other manufacturers rubs off in short order.

Ohlins also do a number of fork spring kits for popular road bikes ( and dirt bikes ) that are a preset length and can be combined with the standard spacer tubes etc, so there is no laborious working out of preload, cutting of preload spacers and recutting, all the work is done. Unfortunately they dont do them for every make and model as it would be commercial suicide. But it sure makes life easy for everyone where they do have a listing for you. Other spring manufacturers such as Race Tech, Eibach etc generally only do them in generic lengths which dont match oem

A word about Race Tech Emulators. Race Tech make the only emulator that works properly and is long term reliable and has proper backup in this country. We always change the poppett springs according to the application and damping feel required, in special circumstances such as Pro Twin racing we adjust the bleed hole size, very easy when you have a workable and easy material, brass.

Libel laws preclude me naming but theres some cheap and cheerful mainland Asian emulators on the market. We surreptitiously purchased and tested a set some months back;

Dissapointment number 1, the bleed hole sizing was too large giving sloppy damping. As the material is aluminium alloy you simply cannot solder it up, youd have to drill and tap to accept interchangeable jets. So not so user friendly

Dissapointment number 2, the base material is alloy with a thin anodised coating which over not too much time will wear through to the soft underbelly. Emulators sit inside the top well of the damper rod and in more than 50% of cases it doesnt sit square to the inner wall of the fork tube. The emultor is locked in place by the preload of the fork spring sitting right on top of it and many cheaper fork springs are not square and can also be a little sharp on their edges. That means the anodising can wear through in short order and once soft alloy is exposed chards of alloy find their way into the fork oil and very often end up deposited in the teflon outer coating of fork bushings. Not good

Dissapointment number 3, The poppet springs sack out and there is then no damping. f you remove a poppet spring and compress it as fully as you can with your fingers it doesnt return to its original length! We know because we tried and the length returned to was only 2/3rds of original.

If you pay cheap theres usually some insidious reason such as really bad quality and material choices.

Those USA inter webby never offered anything like that sort of info. Cheers RT. PM Sent

[Pussy]

I prefer not to deal with obnoxious foul mouthed people.
Fucken bullshit!
You've been dealing with me for bloody years!!
Don't talk crap, Robert!! :)

[Ivan]

The thing is this guy blatently came onto here and istantly put a dig in at Robert by saying Race Tech NZ that is a big hint to Robert and this guy knew it,

Then when Robert says Ungentlemanly he goes off the rails about how Robert is rude and then calling people Prima-Dona Dwarves etc this guy is honestly the biggest cock to engrace kiwi biker ever

He contradicts himself so much this Viscount

[Robert Taylor]

The thing is this guy blatently came onto here and istantly put a dig in at Robert by saying Race Tech NZ that is a big hint to Robert and this guy knew it,

Then when Robert says Ungentlemanly he goes off the rails about how Robert is rude and then calling people Prima-Dona Dwarves etc this guy is honestly the biggest cock to engrace kiwi biker ever

He contradicts himself so much this Viscount


Thanks Ivan, the cash that I am giving you for saying this comes from my ill gotten gains and will be delivered in a brown paper envelope.

I got to thinking that every time I go to a timber yard the cost of our home grown timber is an inflated price, why is that? But then Im happy that Ive supported local and its helped feed a few mouths. Forestry workers deserve a good income.

[Swoop]

Mate, Talking that sort of shit you must either be a pruner or planter.
Surely a "fertiliser creator" would be closer?

[jonbuoy]

Mr know-it-all with all the answers still on his high horse eh?


Wow Vicunt is in desperate need of either a hug or a blowjob. I would take his comments as a compliment RT.

[trustme]

I really don't care if Robert Taylor wants to (or has to) charge more for the Racetech product. People will decide for themselves if the added value is worthwhile to them.

But I do care about Racetech refusing to selll to international customers just because they have an agent here. I wouldn't use them on that basis alone. Sure, CKT may have to recoup the cost of any agency fees and training they may be obliged to undertake etc. but that's up to CKT to determine if being a Racetech agent is worth it's while to them based on customers willingness to pay the extra for the service.

I don't get it. Do you buy your TV direct from the manufacturer , or your car or your motorcycle perhaps you would like to stop buying petrol on the basis that you can't get it direct from the refinery. I don't see a difference

[Kickaha]

The spring manufacturers here often make a nice job but you also have to be wary about the source of the material, most of the top quality material comes from Germany and Sweden. I think a lot of the material that is used here may not be up to spec as I have seen and heard of many locally made springs sacking out quickly. Please someone tell me if youve had better results?

Diesel Pig had some made in Chch, I think they're on there second season in his Pre82 bike, but I doubt they've been back out and measured since installed