Cornering light mod?

[Drogen Omen]

hey has anyone looked at making a cornering light mod?

I'm looking at making one up. set of lights to put on the side of my bike, with a 4 pos Rotary Switch.

1. OFF
2. Both cornering lights at the same time on/off
3. Left cornering light on right cornering light off
4. Left cornering light off right cornering light on

at this stage i don't know how much power i have to play with on the Buell XB12ss so will need to find out as i don't want to burn out the alternator.

i was looking at custom adapting a set of halogen 12V 55W 60degree view brushed chrome domestic house lights.

also not sure if i would need a ballast or a pulse timer.

i started thinking about the need to have side lighting for night riding when cornering...

a couple weeks ago i was riding the rimutakas in the dark, i came to a corner that had no center line so couldn't judge my position on the road and as i could not see how close i was to the hill side i ended up scraping my helmet on the cliff face... didn't know i was that close... gave me a hell of a fright...

i was thinking of modifying a set of these as they already have a protective casing and look stylish...

can anyone help? maybe with a circuit diagram of how i could do it that's better than my diagram?

here's a quick diagram...

i was thinking of wiring it into the headlight wires.

let me know what you guys think.

[hmmmnz]

so let me get this straight.
you want lights that automatically come on or that you have to operate a switch that turns on the left the right or both lights
if its the munual option, isn't that going to be a pain in the arse??

i wouldnt use the headlight wiring as the cable isn't heavy enough to carry the extra load,
ill draw a diagram shortly, on the safest way using a 3 pole switch

[hmmmnz]

ok this is how i would do it,

using relays,
you'll need a 4 position switch, 2x single pole relays, and 1 x double pole relay

[Warr]

60degree bulbs are WAY too wide. You can get 10degree ones from a good electrical supplier, eg JA Russell.
I used some lights from Super Cheap that came with the 60degree bulbs. I mounted them on the mirror mounts in such a way so that they the left crossed over and lit up the right side of the road. The theory being when heading around a right hander the bike was leaned over to the right making the l/h mirror spot cross over and light the direction you were heading.
And same with the one mounted on the r/hand.
I had them wired via a relay and fused direct off a new lead to the battery. The relay was controlled from the high beam circuit with a small switch in series so if you wanted to they could be switched off.
Eg if the WOF testers were concerned (which in my case they werent) You could turn these "driving" lights off.

[Drogen Omen]

so let me get this straight.
you want lights that automatically come on or that you have to operate a switch that turns on the left the right or both lights
if its the munual option, isn't that going to be a pain in the arse??

i wouldnt use the headlight wiring as the cable isn't heavy enough to carry the extra load,
ill draw a diagram shortly, on the safest way using a 3 pole switch

yeah i was thinking i could make it like the indicator switch so that i could push it to make each light come on...

going to Jaycar tomorrow to see what other switches they have. the 4 pos rotary switch is just a suggestion i got from someone else that made this setup.

thanks for the feedback, looking forward to seeing your diagram.

[Drogen Omen]

60degree bulbs are WAY too wide. You can get 10degree ones from a good electrical supplier, eg JA Russell.
I used some lights from Super Cheap that came with the 60degree bulbs. I mounted them on the mirror mounts in such a way so that they the left crossed over and lit up the right side of the road. The theory being when heading around a right hander the bike was leaned over to the right making the l/h mirror spot cross over and light the direction you were heading.
And same with the one mounted on the r/hand.
I had them wired via a relay and fused direct off a new lead to the battery. The relay was controlled from the high beam circuit with a small switch in series so if you wanted to they could be switched off.
Eg if the WOF testers were concerned (which in my case they werent) You could turn these "driving" lights off.

i'm still not set on the halogen lights, will check out the LED's at Jaycar tomorrow and see if they will suite.

i would rather a less bright light but with a wide angle, i was told that if i get amber perspecs to cover the lights they are legal (similar to all the amber lights trucks have), it is only a bright white light on the side or rear of a vehicle that is not WOFable... or so i'm told.

[CookMySock]

Yeah you will need relays. Even 35 watts will be way too much for a little wafer rotary switch.

Do it. I'll be interested to see it.

Steve

[hmmmnz]

diagram added :D
i wouldnt try and load up any switch
relays or burnt out wiring... easy choice in my eyes

[Squiggles]

get some of these (http://www.visionxstore.com/index.php?cPath=45&osCsid=7f8u5om9thqlhp19v9lm10phi0) :drool:

[The Pastor]

lols, extra lights on a motorbike, what are you american?

[CookMySock]

diagram added :DYou can get away with just two relays if you isolate them with some dick smith diodes (1N4004). Just wire two relays to the rotary switch, and then connect the "both" terminal of the switch through two diodes to both of the relays.

Steve

[Drogen Omen]

diagram added :D
i wouldnt try and load up any switch
relays or burnt out wiring... easy choice in my eyes

sweet thanks mate, will check out your diagram.

here is the list of things i thought i would need.

2x 12v 50watt halogen spot lights gunmetal color (need to find some cool looking ones)
100mm x 200mm x 1mm amber colored perspecs
Colored Wires (5 amps)
Wire Sheath/conduit (wire cover)
1x waterproof 3 pos Switch (same as indicator switch)
Power Relay
10amp fuse (5amps per light?)





lols, extra lights on a motorbike, what are you american?

it all depends on the type of bike or headlight system your bike has...

My DR350 has a good side light bleed, but no light focus ahead.

My Buell has inset headlights so has no light bleed out the sides and is focused to 45 degrees.

[Juzz976]

2 pole 4pos cam switch will do. no relays. <--- rotary switch = PITA to use while riding and a dangerous distraction.
Use LED's < uhh something about doin it right the first time.

other options
Night vision glasses
on off switch with lamps that illuminate underneath the bike.
no tinted visor at night time
springy feeler stick ontop of helmet so you can feel when your close to cliff

[Drogen Omen]

ok i have found the lights i'm gona use. here's some pics...

[Drogen Omen]

2 pole 4pos cam switch will do. no relays. <--- rotary switch = PITA to use while riding and a dangerous distraction.
Use LED's < uhh something about doin it right the first time.

other options
Night vision glasses
on off switch with lamps that illuminate underneath the bike.
no tinted visor at night time
springy feeler stick ontop of helmet so you can feel when your close to cliff

- looked at night vision goggles. but they are too expensive and could be a hazard with oncoming cars...
- hmmm that could work but wont look this stylish.
- i dont have a tinted visor.
- this could also work but would look ridiculous... (weta man on a bike) hahahaha

[imdying]

ok i have found the lights i'm gona use. here's some pics...Just remember those have an IP rating of sweet fuck all, they'll panic at the first sign of moisture (i.e. rust out, resistance goes up, followed by current draw, followed by the fuse blowing, followed by throwing the corroded mess in the bin). Steal some driving lights off a car, some with decent refelectors, dichorics are shite.

[Drogen Omen]

Just remember those have an IP rating of sweet fuck all, they'll panic at the first sign of moisture (i.e. rust out, resistance goes up, followed by current draw, followed by the fuse blowing, followed by throwing the corroded mess in the bin). Steal some driving lights off a car, some with decent refelectors, dichorics are shite.

remember i would still like to have them look like they were ment to be on the bike... if i had a second hand crashed streetfighter i would just get some foglights from super cheap auto...

regardless i will document my process and have before and after shots for all that would like to do the same...

more positive sugestions ideas welcome...

[AllanB]

I agree that those lights will die mighty quickly on the bike. Supercheap (well my local one) actually has a few small spot lights that are tidy and could be discretely mounted for your intended purpose. If it all works out you can always look at making some fancy covers or what-ever to spruce them up.

A few cars have the same system you describe for cornering, some have even had lights that physically turn into the corner.

Eric would be proud of your idea.

[Drogen Omen]

I agree that those lights will die mighty quickly on the bike. Supercheap (well my local one) actually has a few small spot lights that are tidy and could be discretely mounted for your intended purpose. If it all works out you can always look at making some fancy covers or what-ever to spruce them up.

A few cars have the same system you describe for cornering, some have even had lights that physically turn into the corner.

Eric would be proud of your idea.


thanks, i hope it comes out good.

are you guys saying that the light housing i have chosen is the crap or the halogen light?

going to repco and super cheap on the weekend so will look for other light fittings.

the lights i have already ordered i got at cost price through a friend so $40 for the 2 isnt a big loss.

[rapid van cleef]

he must be a mod

[Drogen Omen]

he must be a mod

huh!!!

that doesn't help me...

[AllanB]

I'm presuming they are a indoor light - thus problematic on a bike if ridden in the wet. But there are some pretty spunky outdoor ones - hopefully you've been supplied these. Halogen lights whack out a fair bit of the old bright stuff, you'd want a 50wt minimum. I do doubt if a 'home' styled one will offer enough length for a bike travelling at a bit of speed.

Another consideration is some form of easy isolation switch or plug for warrant times - disconnect and as they are not operating they won't be bothered with them.

Has it been done on any of the big touring rigs? Gold Wing, BMW etc?

[Coldrider]

12v halogen lamps get verrrrrrry hot as well.

[LBD]

ok i have found the lights i'm gona use. here's some pics...

Or you may like to try a set of these with switch wiring and instructions.....Available from SWMotech imported by Darbi industries...

http://shop.sw-motech.com/lshop,showdetail,126597265020839,en,1265972699-20961,products.schutz.546213.nebelscheinwerfer-kit,NSW.00.004.100,5,Tshowrub--products.schutz.546213.nebelscheinwerfer-kit,.htm

[Drogen Omen]

I'm presuming they are a indoor light - thus problematic on a bike if ridden in the wet. But there are some pretty spunky outdoor ones - hopefully you've been supplied these. Halogen lights whack out a fair bit of the old bright stuff, you'd want a 50wt minimum. I do doubt if a 'home' styled one will offer enough length for a bike travelling at a bit of speed.

Another consideration is some form of easy isolation switch or plug for warrant times - disconnect and as they are not operating they won't be bothered with them.

Has it been done on any of the big touring rigs? Gold Wing, BMW etc?

there are specialist ones like these (http://shop.sw-motech.com/lshop,showdetail,126597265020839,en,1265972699-20961,products.schutz.546213.nebelscheinwerfer-kit,NSW.00.004.100,5,Tshowrub--products.schutz.546213.nebelscheinwerfer-kit,.htm) but are expensive.

the housings are indoor lights, but i will be modifying themto be waterproof and remove any vibration.


12v halogen lamps get verrrrrrry hot as well.

the lights i have selected are vented very well and should get sufficient air flow.


Or you may like to try a set of these with switch wiring and instructions.....Available from SWMotech imported by Darbi industries...

http://shop.sw-motech.com/lshop,showdetail,126597265020839,en,1265972699-20961,products.schutz.546213.nebelscheinwerfer-kit,NSW.00.004.100,5,Tshowrub--products.schutz.546213.nebelscheinwerfer-kit,.htm

these are ones i looked at before but they are way too expensive.

so far i have spent.

$40 for 2 light fittings
$38 for the wires, relays, diodes, switches and wiring box.

Total $78

plus it gives me something to do on rainy day's...

[hmmmnz]

im not a big fan of using diodes, as the buggers get hot, (as a spark i would say avoid them if you can)

you can make the wiring simpler if you dont use both the lights on together,

and even simpler if you use a main switch and then switch then a directional switch (down to 1 relay)

apparently the bike generates 494 watts peak, you just have to figure out how much of that is free


but this may be all moot if your changing system doesnt have a 100watts to spare,

[quickbuck]

Okay,
Can't be bothered reading all the thread.... BUT when I'm cornering and need more light, I find I am on such an angle that the "PASS" Switch on the handle bar does the trick, unless the light is already on High Beam....
In fact the Pass Button actually sheds more light, as it operates both beams....

[Drogen Omen]

im not a big fan of using diodes, as the buggers get hot, (as a spark i would say avoid them if you can)

you can make the wiring simpler if you dont use both the lights on together,

and even simpler if you use a main switch and then switch then a directional switch (down to 1 relay)

apparently the bike generates 494 watts peak, you just have to figure out how much of that is free

but this may be all moot if your changing system doesnt have a 100watts to spare,

i will talk to the electrical guys at my work and ask them about the Diodes and if them heating up is an issue.

can you give me a list of what you think i should do?

i have no idea what i am doing so need all the help you guys can give me.



Okay,
Can't be bothered reading all the thread.... BUT when I'm cornering and need more light, I find I am on such an angle that the "PASS" Switch on the handle bar does the trick, unless the light is already on High Beam....
In fact the Pass Button actually sheds more light, as it operates both beams....

well i would do that but the headlights on my buell are inset and have no side bleed and makes no difference when i have tried it. i even went as far as to tape my passing switch on so both my lights were on all the time.

[quickbuck]

well i would do that but the headlights on my buell are inset and have no side bleed and makes no difference when i have tried it. i even went as far as to tape my passing switch on so both my lights were on all the time.

Ummm,
What I am saying is that "When Cornering" you actually need light to go UP in effect... Well, more like 45 degrees upwards......

All side bleed will give is a nice lighting up of the road you don't need to worry about/ Shouldn't be looking at, or won't be riding over in any case.....

[FROSTY]

I think you might be looking at this wrong dude. If your standard headlights aint giving you what you need thats the first place to look for changes.

[Drogen Omen]

Ummm,
What I am saying is that "When Cornering" you actually need light to go UP in effect... Well, more like 45 degrees upwards......

All side bleed will give is a nice lighting up of the road you don't need to worry about/ Shouldn't be looking at, or won't be riding over in any case.....

yeah but having light bleed works with your periferal vision and gives you an idea of how close you are to the inside of the corner. it is also effective when you are going low.

[hmmmnz]

first decide how you are going to use the lights. do you really need them both to come on at 1 time??
do you want to use a directional switch (like indicator switch) or are you going to use a 4 pole twist switch,
you have to have a place where its easy to use other wise its useless,

im not saying you can't use diodes, i personally don't like them because they can get hot, alot of current passes through them ( eg i=p/v , 50/12 = 6 amps)

i have no problem doing the wiring for you if you want to ride out to houghton bay one night,

[Drogen Omen]

I think you might be looking at this wrong dude. If your standard headlights aint giving you what you need thats the first place to look for changes.

i was told that i would need to buy a hole new lighting unit as the Buell bulbs can not be changed. you can replace the bulbes when they blow but there will always only be one light on at a time.

i would like to have both headlights on at the same time and be able to switch them both from low to high beam. but thats another mod.

i can get brighter bulbes, but without side bleed and only a 45 degre angle of light there is no point.

[Drogen Omen]

first decide how you are going to use the lights. do you really need them both to come on at 1 time??
do you want to use a directional switch (like indicator switch) or are you going to use a 4 pole twist switch,
you have to have a place where its easy to use other wise its useless,

im not saying you can't use diodes, i personally don't like them because they can get hot, alot of current passes through them ( eg i=p/v , 50/12 = 6 amps)

i have no problem doing the wiring for you if you want to ride out to houghton bay one night,

ok i want to be able to have both of them off when i start the bike and then either have one or the other or both ON.

i have a little box to put the switches in and resin them in place, the box will fit into a space next to the indicator switch.

thanks for the offer mate, but i basicaly know nothing about my bike or electrics so want to do this and try to learn something about bikes other thean how to ride them...

will ask for help if i get stuck.

[FROSTY]

Mon I dunno about your particular bike so I guess you may be right. I've had success in that situation with the bike on lo beam and mashin the pass light--the lo fills in the area close in. BUT if you're on a bike with headlight on the forks one downside is thsat the headlight points where you turn the steering so countersteering means the lights pointing to the outside of the bend

[hmmmnz]

ok i want to be able to have both of them off when i start the bike and then either have one or the other or both ON.

i have a little box to put the switches in and resin them in place, the box will fit into a space next to the indicator switch.

thanks for the offer mate, but i basicaly know nothing about my bike or electrics so want to do this and try to learn something about bikes other thean how to ride them...

will ask for help if i get stuck.


ok sweet, in that case your best and most reliable option is to follow the diagram i have drawn
(use 2x spst (single pole single throw) relays and 1x dpdt (double pole double throw) relay, and 1 x 4pst switch


or if you want to use 2 switches then you just need 2 spst relays, and 2 switches :D

[imdying]

remember i would still like to have them look like they were ment to be on the bike... if i had a second hand crashed streetfighter i would just get some foglights from super cheap auto...Not all driving lights are ugly, have a look on eBay for a start (greater range than locally available). Surely they're not going to look any more out of place than something designed for a kitchen?

[Drogen Omen]

ok finaly have all the gear to start this little project later this week.

- 2x spst relays + blade fuse
- 2x waterproof switches
- 2x 2 meters of wire (Blue & red) extra for just in case i make a mistake... and I'm sure i will.
- 2x schottky barrier diodes
- 2x light fittings
- 2x 12v 50w halogen bulbs
- Small tube of Silicone Sealer
- 50cm x 50cm x2mm think clear Perspex
- Soldering Iron & Solder


2007 Buell XB12SS factory power specs
Electric
Battery (per Battery Council International Rating): Sealed lead acid, maintenance-free, 12V,12 amp/hour, 200 cca
Charging:494W peak, 38-amp, permanent magnet,3-phase alternator with solid-state regulator
Starting: 1.2 kW electric with solenoid shift starter motor engagement
Lights (as per country regulation): Headlamps(twin quartz halogen [H7])
Tail/Stop Lights: License Plate Light
Turn Signal Lights: 55-watt low beam, 55-watt high beam, 5W/21W, 10W manual canceling, 5W

[hmmmnz]

if you are using 2 switches you don't need the diodes

[Drogen Omen]

if you are using 2 switches you don't need the diodes

sweet thanks, have printed this off.

[CookMySock]

im not a big fan of using diodes, as the buggers get hot, (as a spark i would say avoid them if you can)They are ok if you are just using them for the relay signal, but yeah not wise in the main circuit. Also it will be difficult to strain-relieve the tiny leads effectively - best way will be to solder them to something rigid nearby, such as the pins on the switch.


apparently the bike generates 494 watts peak, you just have to figure out how much of that is freeNot too much of a show stopper, provided the lights aren't left on and your battery is in good nick. You might be able to use a simple FET + RC timer circuit to auto cutout, if you can google one or get someone to draw it for you, but hey we are getting ultra-techie now. ;)


Steve

[Pixie]

The indoor halogen lamps are unsuitable for anything that will be exposed to getting wet or bug spattered.The quartz envelope will go opaque from acid attack or crack from rapid cooling.

Sticking plastic in front of the dichroic will result in:
1. melted or blistered plastic or:
2. overheated lamp
3. or both

[Pixie]

im not a big fan of using diodes, as the buggers get hot, (as a spark i would say avoid them if you can)

you can make the wiring simpler if you dont use both the lights on together,

and even simpler if you use a main switch and then switch then a directional switch (down to 1 relay)

apparently the bike generates 494 watts peak, you just have to figure out how much of that is free


but this may be all moot if your changing system doesnt have a 100watts to spare,

Diodes in the coil circuits of relays will only be carrying milliamps.Why would they get hot?

[Pixie]

Jaycar have a 10 amp on/off/on toggle switch. Jaycar Cat No. ST-0576 $5.90
You can use that for 55 W lamps without any relays.
Splashproof hood for the switch is Jaycar Cat No. ST-0592 $3.50.
Relays are Jaycar Cat No. SY-4068 $9.90

The diagram has two circuits,one with relays,one without.

As for lamps.You can get LED alternatives for the Halogen lamps that fit the same housings and don't have the heat and durability disadvantages of Halogens.
Check out these Cat Nos. at http://www.jaycar.co.nz/
ZD-0320,ZD-0340,ZD-0346 None of these require more that 3W for a similar output to a 20W halogen.

[imdying]

You're correct, they won't.

[Drogen Omen]

Jaycar have a 10 amp on/off/on toggle switch. Jaycar Cat No. ST-0576 $5.90
You can use that for 55 W lamps without any relays.
Splashproof hood for the switch is Jaycar Cat No. ST-0592 $3.50.
Relays are Jaycar Cat No. SY-4068 $9.90

The diagram has two circuits,one with relays,one without.

As for lamps.You can get LED alternatives for the Halogen lamps that fit the same housings and don't have the heat and durability disadvantages of Halogens.
Check out these Cat Nos. at http://www.jaycar.co.nz/
ZD-0320,ZD-0340,ZD-0346 None of these require more that 3W for a similar output to a 20W halogen.

Yeah i have both the 20w halogens and the ZD-0346 LED high intensity lights. will test them both out when i have wired it all up.

The only thing I'm not sure about is if any of the lights are going to last through the vibrations that Buell's are known for.

Guess I'll have to solder the hell out of the connections and use heat shrink and hope for the best.

thanks for all the great idea's keep em coming...

[Pixie]

Yeah i have both the 20w halogens and the ZD-0346 LED high intensity lights. will test them both out when i have wired it all up.

The only thing I'm not sure about is if any of the lights are going to last through the vibrations that Buell's are known for.

Guess I'll have to solder the hell out of the connections and use heat shrink and hope for the best.

thanks for all the great idea's keep em coming...

The LED lamps will be the most vibration tolerant option.

[Drogen Omen]

ok have started with my mod.

- have run the wires
- have mounted the lampts
- tested one lamp with halogen

all ok, here are some pics i took about 20 mins ago.

sat there looking at the relay's and scratching my head... have no idea how to connect them up... also think i need more wiring... think i only got enough to connect 1 lamp to the switch, relay and battery... doh!!!

[Drogen Omen]

here is the first test.

pic 1 - standard bike light low beam
pic 2 - standard bike light and halogen
pic 3 - looking at halogen

[CookMySock]

sat there looking at the relay's and scratching my head... have no idea how to connect them up... http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm
http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/relay_basics.htm

Steve

[Drogen Omen]

ok so have worked out that connecting the new lights to the headlight lead wire wont work as when i switch from low beam to high beam the lights switch off... have decided to wire the switch wire to the tail light as when i turn the key on the tail light is always on.

also i have tested the lights after my silicon gasket waterproofing... i tested their waterproofness by poring a constant stream of water over the light connection... all is good did not short out ate all.

ok back to more wiring now that i have a better understanding of how to wire up the relays.

thanks for that Steve

[CookMySock]

i tested their waterproofness by poring a constant stream of water over the light connection... all is good did not short out ate all.Water won't make them short out. It will just make all the connectors rust and go unreliable.

A few times I have even seen 230V mains plugs dropped in a bucket of water, and it didn't care at all. Weird though.

Steve

[Drogen Omen]

ok..

after some small mistakes and some more testing with my friends meter i worked out that i would need 2x 30 amp fuses instead of the 15amp fuses. not sure but think the giveaway was that they kept popping.

so after a trip to jaycar and final touches to the light system here are the results.

if the pics aren't good enough i will take some better pics tomorrow night.

all up i am happy with the result. now just need to paint them lights mat black. wife says they are too shiny....

[CookMySock]

Have you burned a hole through that shed door yet? ;)

Steve

[Drogen Omen]

got side tracked after i finished the lights the other day.

bike goes in for WOF tomorrow morning so should be interesting to see if they pass it with the driving lights....

[Drogen Omen]

bike past WOF no problems, wellighton motorcycles sells Harley Davidson driving lights identical to my home jobs but crome and cost $600 + $180 for wiring kit. and they were 75wat 12v halogens. so 75watt driving lights on a bike must be legal.